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esther-dot · 1 year

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What do you think about song Bear and the Maiden Fair? While the bear is described as brown and black with hairs while the maid described as honey in her hair and pure. Many think that song is about Hound and Sansa because he saved her when other knights couldn't but the bear in song didn't seems to saver as it tastes the honey of maid when she was shrieking and kicking. Seems like forced touching just like Hound forcing on Sansa. Tyrion, Penny and Jorah had played the characters in Meereen.

I also received this ask about the song:

(These are so old, neither of you may be around anymore, but I finally typed up some thoughts on this. Sorry for how belated this is! 😬)

I would assume that the reason so many relationships have a connection to the song is that Martin has an interest in developing relationships between extremes. At one point or another, he’s formed a relationship between youth/age, brother/enemy, beauty/ugliness, life/death, love/hate and I totally forgot the big one and had to circle back to add: ice and fire! Lmao). “Beauty and the Beast” is based on the interest in the juxtaposition of extremes, The Bear and the Maiden Fair offers something similar, so it makes sense to me that he repeatedly utilizes it.

The placement of extremes in relation to each other is an aesthetic thing some find compelling (created via The Hound’s size and scars against Sansa’s remarkable beauty and youth, Dany’s size, eye and hair color contrasted with Drogo or Jorah’s…), but more importantly, a thematic thing. We see the contrast vividly with Brienne and Jaime as well as Sansa and the Hound. Their appearance is at odds, of course, but what really matters are how their values are contrasted. Sansa’s beliefs and her nature are entirely opposed to the Hound’s, and if you think of Jorah as the knight exiled for being a slaver and the shame of his house helping the woman who attempts to end slavery (until she needs it) and restore her house…well, you get a version of that there too.

Being that Martin has stated he played with the Beauty and the Beast angle with Sansa and the Hound, but was surprised people shipped it, we should accept that Martin uses tropes/references for different purposes, not necessarily to signal an endgame romance or mutual interest even if that is the initial thought by the reader. Martin likes the inside/outside view of things, likes to examine ideas from multiple perspectives, and a character occupying different roles throughout the story allows him to extract a lot of meaning. Fans like to focus on how Sansa is wrong about a certain character, but the main intent behind all of this is the author challenging his reader when he forces us to examine and re-examine who characters are and what he is saying with them. The lyrics of the song twists our perception of things, so, even if I reject how it’s often applied, I agree that the concept behind the song is being discussed in these relationships.

We see the same beast/knight ideas with the Hound and Sansa as with Jorah and Dany. Both Dany and Sansa have these guys who are associated with specific animals (bear, hound), who function as protectors at some point even though they also betray them. Jorah’s betrayal is labeled as such in the book, but the Hound going from rescuing Sansa to assaulting her is a betrayal as well. Both men develop loyalty to the girls, they offer some protection, both have a sexual interest in the girls and both sexually harass them (Jorah kisses Dany without permission, the Hound assaults Sansa). I suppose Sansa and the Hound fit a little better with parts of the song because the girl is initially frightened by the bear while Jorah presents quite differently despite all the bear references. The bear-ish description of Jorah isn’t just the bear sigil, we also get all the hair stuff:

"I shall wish to speak with Ser Jorah before the night is done," her brother said. Dany found herself looking at the knight curiously. He was an older man, past forty and balding, but still strong and fit. Instead of silks and cottons, he wore wool and leather. His tunic was a dark green, embroidered with the likeness of a black bear standing on two legs. (AGOT, Daenerys I)

“He had a neck and shoulders like a bull, and coarse black hair covered his arms and chest so thickly that there was none left for his head.” (AGOT, Daenerys III)

and of course, he is referenced as a bear pretty often:

“Ser Jorah, her gruff old bear” (ADWD, Daenerys VI) and he’s referred to as her “bear knight” (ADWD, Daenerys III) and “My bear, she thought, my old sweet bear” (ADWD, Daenerys X).

I selected those from ADWD because to me, that’s when it for sure was deliberately connecting back to the song as Tyrion puts Jorah in the role of the bear:

"That one is part of our show. The bear and the maiden fair. Jorah is the bear, Penny is the maiden, I am the brave knight who rescues her. I dance about and hit him in the balls. Very funny." (ADWD, Tyrion X)

So, we begin the story knowing Jorah is a bear (Mormont), that he’s described as bear/beast, called a bear/bear knight, and then eventually, he’s playacting the bear from the song. Interestingly, the "knight" who fights the bear is acted by someone Martin has called a villain. I could never argue that the author isn’t being intentionally self-referential, he clearly is. However, we do have the fact that Jorah betrayed/molested Dany, and this:

Jorah Mormont's face was dark with anger, but he answered. "To serve her. Defend her. Die for her, if need be."

That made the widow laugh. "You want to rescue her, is that the way of it? From more enemies than I can name, with swords beyond count … this is what you'd have the poor widow believe? That you are a true and chivalrous Westerosi knight crossing half the world to come to the aid of this … well, she is no maiden, though she may still be fair." (ADWD, Tyrion VII)

I’m uncomfortable with the emphasis placed on virginity in the books and hate to use that (or beauty) as a determining factor in which couple the song is “really” about, but we have this line which I see as direct guidance from Martin about interpreting the Dany and Jorah relationship as a straight up version of The Bear and the Maiden Fair. The way it’s presented and challenged indicates that while in a particular dynamic or in a specific scene a character fulfills a certain role, that isn’t necessarily their overall role. To me, looking at the story as a whole, Brienne’s role is true knight, more so than maiden. Just as the idea that Dany is the maiden/damsel is present in her interactions with Jorah, but that isn’t her role in the story as a whole, no more than Jorah is the true knight. (He’s a slaver ffs).

As for the Jaime and Brienne of it, Jaime protecting Breinne from a bear slots him into the knight role, but as they struggle over who is fighting the bear, there’s a play on who is in the knight role and who is in the “maiden” role. Also, Brienne is mockingly called beauty and Jaime is described as a beast, and while those characters are being cruel to Brienne, to the reader, we know Jaime has done horrible things (attempted kid killing = monstrous), and we know Brienne is the purist soul (goodness=beauty), so taking a step away from the superficial, we are getting a layered play on the trope. And yes, Brienne is a virgin and Jaime a knight, we can leave it there, but Brienne is a knight in the truest sense and Jaime is beautiful, so I think the best way to look at this question of who this song is “about” is to accept that the trope being discussed is getting a rotisserie chicken treatment. We’re allowed to see it from every juicy angle, not limited to one. After all, Jorah is a knight and a bear.

Of course, as I already said, since the author likes to reference things without implementing them the way people expect, this doesn’t necessarily mean romantic endgame, but saying that doesn’t mean I’m dismissing Braime because I do think Martin wrote in the romantic stuff deliberately. The whole knights/fools etc is at play in that scene too:

"What are you doing here?"

"Something stupid. Get behind me." He circled toward her, putting himself between Brienne and the bear. (ASOS, Jaime VI)

Brienne is referenced as the maid in this scene, but later she reads like a knight on a quest to save the fair maiden --Sansa. We even get some “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” singing there. If they ever meet, I would expect some beauty/beast discussion to crop up just as part of this continuing conversation about roles, part of the characters revolving through them to allow the author to thoroughly analyze the ideas and evolve what fairytales are/say. In their pairing, Brienne would be the knight to Sansa’s maiden to allow for Martin to contrast Brienne with all of our failed knights.

We get a lot of duality with these characters/their roles which means we can ask, who is the knight/who is the bear and come up with many, many answers. All of them true in a certain light, only to then turn them on their head. Sometimes, a failed knight rises to the occasion, and sometimes the maiden saves the knight, and sometimes, the knights are evil, sometimes the knight isn’t a true knight. Sometimes salvation comes from where you least expect it, and sometimes, rescuers are also a threat. The roles are there, but Martin is playing with them, challenging them, so the multiple ways we can read these characters and dynamics is very much intentional. All of that being said, it’s undeniable that there is one maiden for whom the song is particularly relevant.

Sansa fits the maiden role in a much more overarching way than our other contenders. Not only because she’s a virgin, not simply because of her interest in romance or because so much of her story has been driven by various people’s sexual/political interest in her/marrying her, but because she represents certain attributes, foremost of them, mercy. We get in trouble when talking about how beautiful she is, but it can’t be disregarded because she represents hope, innocence, compassion, peace. Martin made her beautiful not just as a physical thing, rather, because she is representative of ideas; she is the beauty of certain ideals.

The Hound who laughs at killing children is moved to protect her, can’t follow through on his own desire to harm her. Dontos tells her,

"A knight?" Joffrey had decreed that he was to be a knight no longer, only a fool, lower even than Moon Boy. "I prayed to the gods for a knight to come save me," she said. "I prayed and prayed. Why would they send me a drunken old fool?"

"I deserve that, though . . . I know it's queer, but . . . all those years I was a knight, I was truly a fool, and now that I am a fool I think . . . I think I may find it in me to be a knight again, sweet lady. And all because of you . . . your grace, your courage. You saved me, not only from Joffrey, but from myself." (ACOK, Sansa II)

Personification is a thing and even though she is a multidimensional character, I think the way Martin has written Sansa makes it clear that he is calling back to old archetypes here which is why, when you hear “maiden fair,” Sansa is the referenced character in an overarching way, not just in a specific dynamic, not just in a specific chapter or one book, but in the series, this is who she is in a way that no other character is.

Her role in the story is notably the tropey damsel in distress/princess in the tower (in a way that Dany and Brienne are not), and even with the revision of what that means by a modern author, even with the idea growing and evolving into something new, with the girl having far more agency and inner life than in older stories, it’s so clear this is who she is that even her haters know it. They call her a princess in a tower to show their disdain, but all they’re doing is admitting that even they recognize who she is in the story.

And of course, there is the fact that Sansa is referred to as a fair maiden, even in her TWOW chapter, that her beauty is often remarked upon, and that she has some parallels with Persephone which seems pertinent due to the Beauty and the Beast/Hades and Persephone/Death and the Maiden connection:

Petyr cut a pomegranate in two with his dagger, offering half to Sansa. "You should try and eat, my lady."

"Thank you, my lord." Pomegranate seeds were so messy; Sansa chose a pear instead, and took a small delicate bite. It was very ripe. The juice ran down her chin. (ASOS,

LF is her uncle (by marriage), he spirits her away from KL and is clearly intent on making her his, and as we know, he’s orchestrated destruction for her family/the realm, so he fits in here as a kind of Hades (death) to Sansa’s maiden which is relevant considering how loosely related death and the maiden is to the beauty and the beast idea.

However, the thing that feels the most like the author directing us to a specific conclusion must be reading her first chapter in ASOS which might as well be called “the Bear and the Maiden Fair chapter” because we finally get the lyrics to the song, and it’s interspersed into a scenario that is kinda telling a similar story. Sansa wants a beautiful knight (Loras), but is offered a stranger instead (Willas). We’ve also just read a speedrun through all the fake knights/bears/suitors/“love interests” Sansa (or fans) have selected for her:

Sansa wondered if Joffrey knew of this supper. For all she knew, it might be his doing. That thought made her fearful. If Joff was behind the invitation, he would have some cruel jape planned to shame her in the older girl's eyes. Would he command his Kingsguard to strip her naked once again? The last time he had done that his uncle Tyrion had stopped him, but the Imp could not save her now.

No one can save me but my Florian. Ser Dontos had promised he would help her escape, but not until the night of Joffrey's wedding. The plans had been well laid, her dear devoted knight-turned-fool assured her; there was nothing to do until then but endure, and count the days.

[…]

Even so, she must accept. She was nothing now, the discarded daughter of a traitor and disgraced sister of a rebel lord. She could scarcely refuse Joffrey's queen-to-be.

I wish the Hound were here. The night of the battle, Sandor Clegane had come to her chambers to take her from the city, but Sansa had refused. Sometimes she lay awake at night, wondering if she'd been wise. She had his stained white cloak hidden in a cedar chest beneath her summer silks. She could not say why she'd kept it. (ASOS, Sansa I)

So, we have the prince who turned out to be a monster (Joffrey), the guy everyone thinks of as a monster who protects her (Tyrion), a knight who she saved but sexually harasses her (Dontos), a man who threatens her but ended up saving her only to then turn around and be a threat himself (The Hound). See what I mean about multiple roles? My gosh, it’s almost like the author has intentionally been writing variations of the song into Sansa’s story all along, or even, dare I say it, he's written Sansa’s story into a song, only, none of these match up perfectly, so we are still waiting for the true(est) incarnation of this song to manifest into her story.

Or, all of that shorter:

"I CALLED FOR A KNIGHT, BUT YOU'RE A BEAR! (ASOS, Sansa I)

"I prayed to the gods for a knight to come save me," she said. "I prayed and prayed. Why would they send me a drunken old fool?" (ACOK, Sansa II)

So, if Sansa is the maiden of the song, the maiden fair of A Song of Ice and Fire, who is the bear, who’s the knight? More importantly, where is this poor girl’s hero?

Y’all, this is getting ridiculously long. Now, I’ve never not done something for a silly reason like not wanting to appear ridiculous, but I can’t post seven thousand words all at once. tumblr staff will deactivate my account to save me from myself! I will get to Jon and the Jonsa of it all in part two.

#dot chat #jonsa #and all of these for filtering:#anti the hound #anti sansan #anti jorah #anti jorleesi #anti Tyrion #anti Littlefinger

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