#anyway this is my john headcanon. sort of a venom situation you know | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

traincat · 5 years

Note

It is true that Flash Thompson was not originally a bully and that later writer retconned him to be one to make Peter more relatable?

This is an interesting thing to explore and I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut as that, because it’s not like a retcon where the switch got flipped and suddenly This Is How Canon Is. It’s more of a messy canon landslide, filled with creator infighting. (In a move that I’m sure will surprise no one, just like people in fandom disagree with each other’s headcanons, different writers on longrunning multi-creator series disagree with each other’s headcanons. It’s just that they get to then make those headcanons canon.) But to take it back to the very beginning with Stan Lee and Steve Ditko’s run – no, I don’t believe Flash Thompson was originally intended to be a bully in high school, at least not in the same way he later became characterized during that time and not in the way that the word “bully” brings to mind in modern context. I think it’s more accurate to say that the original depiction of Flash in the Lee/Ditko run is as the popular student to Peter’s wallflower. Compared to Peter, Flash cares less about intellectual pursuits and schoolwork and comes across more as the Typical American Teenager of the time, complete with curly flaxen hair and sweaters with his initial on the front. Peter and Flash are certainly not friends in high school and Flash is verbally rude to Peter, but he’s certainly not the only one, and, especially after the spider-bite, Peter gives as good as he takes in that department and more. I’d describe the relationship in the Lee/Ditko run as “mutually antagonistic”, and that the nature of that antagonism is largely verbal. Out of the couple of times they have come to blows in the Lee/Ditko run, there’s one boxing match in Amazing Spider-Man #8 to “settle their feud”:

I don’t think this was approved conflict resolution between students even in the 60s, but whatever – anyway, long story short, after an attempt to figure out how to pull his punches enough so he doesn’t seriously injure Flash, Peter… still wipes the floor with him.

Okay.

Then there’s a fight in Amazing Spider-Man #26, which only gets broke up because Liz Allan physically gets between them:

So in both of these original cases, it’s hard not label Peter as, if not the aggressor, then at the least complicit in these physical fights solely within the confines of the original Lee/Ditko run. I also think it’s notable in the latter scene that, though the principal blames Peter – and look at that flying tackle leap – Flash takes the rap for this fight so Peter won’t get in trouble.

Here’s the thing about Spider-Man as a series: there’s a big joke at the forefront of the series at its beginning, and the joke is that Peter’s dear old aunt might think he’s such a fragile boy, and his classmates might think he’s just another scrawny nerd, but he knows – and you and I, the readers, know – that that’s not true at all and that physically Peter’s much stronger than all of them and he knows – and again, we the readers know – that he could flatten anyone at school who looks at him wrong, and that it’s his own sense of responsibility and morals that keeps him from doing just that. It’s a very specific kind of joke, it’s an in-joke. We know it, Peter knows, nobody else knows it, and that’s why it’s funny. And that joke deepens when they introduce the element of Flash Thompson being Spider-Man’s biggest fan.

(Amazing Spider-Man #17) So now the joke’s not only that Flash, as Peter’s classmate, might think he’s kind of a wimp, it’s that while he thinks Peter’s a wimp he simultaneously worships the ground Spider-Man walks on. I’ve mentioned before that in my opinion it’s a shallow take to boil Spider-Man’s humor as a series down to Peter’s quipping in fights; the narrative itself is clever, and Flash squabbling with Peter while simultaneously thinking Spider-Man’s just the greatest ever is part of that. To complicate things further, part of the reason Flash dislikes Peter at this point in canon is because he feels his girlfriend Liz Allan is gunning to get with Peter (and she is). Flash and Liz have an odd relationship; they’re ostensibly together through high school, but essentially they’re both obsessed with the same guy in different outfits. (This isn’t actually canon, or at least, it isn’t yet, but for the sake of the conversation: I do strongly believe that Flash, as he’s been written in 616 over the years, is gay. @bipeteparker has an excellent breakdown of the subtext here. And so while I do think it’s very easy to paint Flash’s feelings for Spider-Man as more than platonic, I also think his feelings for Peter eventually get, yeah, pretty romantic. Identity porn in practice!)

Peter and Flash continue this kind of mutual antagonism into the early days of college, where they both end up in Gwen Stacy’s social circle:

(Amazing Spider-Man #37) I do think the Ditko/Lee run is very important, but there’s a reason I don’t usually recommend people start with it, and it’s because if you’re used to Peter Parker being a certain way, Peter in the original run is uhhh. Let’s call him prickly, to say the least. For all of Flash’s posturing here in this scene, if you look at what’s actually on the page, he does sort of come off a little better than Peter – from his perspective, he’s trying to defend Gwen, his friend, from a guy he knows has a history of some pretty weird behavior. I don’t doubt that the original point of the scene was for the reader to come down more on Peter’s side of things (note Gwen’s internal monologue), but from a modern perspective, well – Peter’s being a pretty big jerk in it. (Peter mellows out a lot in college, and also when John Romita Sr hits the scene and replaces Ditko on art.)

So one of the things that kept Peter and Flash from being friends sooner – and within the confines of the Lee/Ditko run, kept Peter from having friends at all sooner – is that Peter’s responsibilities towards Spider-Man and his aunt did make him initially come off as very standoffish during high school and at the beginning of college, which was the result of him being, well, just superhumanly busy and having a lot on his mind, but which his classmates (who don’t have the reader’s privilege of knowing just what the hell is up with Peter Parker) did read as him thinking he was too good for them:

(Amazing Spider-Man #34)

Flash remarks on this same behavior in the future, after he and Peter have become friends:

“We all had responsibilities, Pete. But we made time for each other. You made it clear that you always had something more important to do than be with us. How do you think we felt?” (Web of Spider-Man #11 – with a classic Flash Thompson fashion look.) This is one of the downsides of Spider-Man; because of his secret identity, even the Peter people loves most in his life (and he grows to love Flash a very great deal) don’t really know every side of him. And it’s very easy for the reader to sympathize with Peter first and foremost because we know he missed that movie/dance/dinner/whatever because there was a supervillain on the loose, or someone was trapped in a burning building, but when he can’t/won’t share that information with the people in his life with whom he keeps breaking plans, I think it’s also reasonable to sympathize with them feeling like they’re just not important to him, so I like Web of Spider-Man #11′s spin on the situation. (Flash also comes down on Peter’s treatment of Liz Allan in high school, given her obvious crush on him, in the issue.)

To go back briefly to the idea of Peter and Flash having a mutual antagonism in high school, rather than a bully-victim dynamic, while Flash looked down on Peter for not being as athletic or popular with girls as him, Peter teased Flash about his intelligence:

(”Back before we became friends, Parker used to tease me for not being as bright as he is. I wonder if he knew how much that hurt?” – Spectacular Spider-Man #148.) So there’s an interesting twist in the dynamic there, because we the readers know that Flash teasing Peter about not being as athletic as him is funny because, after the spider-bite, Peter’s far stronger and faster than Flash is. Peter teasing Flash about not being as smart as him, on the other hand, isn’t funny at all, because Peter really is that much smarter than Flash. And I’m not trying to make Peter out to be the bully in the situation, but I do think Spider-Man comics and relationship dynamics are at their best when not everything is as simple as it seems and when there are different sides to the story, and that I do really like this dynamic of Peter and Flash of two kids who just drastically didn’t understand each other, and who both had pretty valid reasons not to like each other in high school, but who ended up clicking really well in later life as they both matured. It’s also notable that Peter, while orphaned as a young child, had Ben and May who were very loving parents, whereas Flash’s father was violently abusive. In the issue that reveals Flash’s home life situation, a much younger Flash stares down in envy at Peter and Uncle Ben:

(Spectacular Spider-Man #-1)

(Venom (2011) #5)

Having established all of that, it is pretty much hard canon now that Flash was more of a garden variety bully in high school, with the idea popularized in Spider-Man fandom by like, every Peter Parker movie, and as comics moved forward with new writers who saw different parts of their own experiences in Peter’s high school isolation, or who wanted to move things into a more modern perspective. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing for Flash as a character, necessarily – I don’t think it’s in the original Lee/Ditko run’s text, but neither is Flash having a father who beats him, and while “bully is actually a victim of abuse himself” is maybe an overused trope, it comes up a lot for a reason, and so much of Spider-Man does boil down to what abuse does to people, and how they then abuse other people – or how they choose not to do that. (A huge part of Flash’s Venom run is on breaking the cycle of abuse.) I know I’ve talked a couple times about Flash being put down to make Peter look better by comparison, I don’t really mean the slide of Flash from popular boy who just, well, didn’t really like Peter into Peter’s bully so much as some later canon (particularly around the late ‘90s and into the ‘00s) that, well, didn’t seem to really know what to do with Flash.

For example, for a while in canon, Flash had a job as an athletics coach teaching kids, and he seemed to really like it and he was really good with kids! Then we hit a point in canon and it’s like, oh never mind, he considers this a dead-end job for a loser. In the mid-250s of Spectacular Spider-Man, Flash tries to get back together with Betty Brant, with the caveat that something unnamed and jerkish happened to end their relationship and that it was his fault -- but that doesn’t make sense, in part because after Ned’s death and Betty’s breakdown it’s never clear whether Flash and Betty’s relatoinship ever even regained a romantic footing, and besides we see Flash and Betty hanging out in the same company after that when Flash was seeing Felicia with no apparent hard feelings between them. And some of it’s just your regular comic book style character regression -- at one point, Flash gets kidnapped by Norman Osborn, waterboarded with whisky, framed for a car accident that leaves him in a coma and with brain damage, and then when he comes out of it he’s regressed back to his high school-ish personality and can’t remember being friends with Peter (this didn’t last but it was sure a thing). So there’s some stuff like that. And I do think a lot of it comes out of comic book writers who maybe identify with Peter a little too closely as a former high school nerd and it offers them a chance to put the jock down which -- I don’t know, I think it’s just a shallower take on a relationship that developed very naturally.

So long story short, I don’t think the bully angle is something that was really in the Lee/Ditko run, and that Flash and Peter have more of a mutual antagonism that initially stems from Flash being the popular kid and Peter being a loner who feels isolated, yes, but who also had a tendency at that age to isolate himself, and that the bully aspect later emerged as a way to make Peter more of a relatable figure initially -- less prickly, more picked on, and Flash got pushed into that role because of it. It’s canon now, and I don’t really have a problem with it -- Flash and Peter managed to work it out amongst themselves, after all -- but I do think it’s interesting how it’s changed over the years, and I do personally think the initial dynamic from the Lee/Ditko run is more interesting. Ultimately I think the evolution of Flash in high school from a popular and a bit airheaded jock who loves Spider-Man to being characterized as a bully first and foremost is a shame because Flash and Peter have a really great friendship in later canon, and that’s something I’d like to see more of in Spider-Man adaptations. Instead the bully role just gets trot out over and over again.

#peter parker #flash thompson #marvel comics #traincat talks comics #long post/#*replies

128 notes · View notes