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yaksha-lover · 6 months

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i’m obsessed with the thought of vil falling for someone who’s ugly. especially if it’s a forced proximity trope. triple points if it’s enemies to lovers!

there’s just something about a guy obsessed with beauty is shown that beauty doesn’t equal to value that melts me

omg i actually was obsessed with this concept a few months ago and i wrote a very short unfinished drabble (set in medieval au) about knight!vil falling for ‘ugly’ knight!reader but i didn’t think anyone would want to read about an ‘ugly’ reader 😭😭

i definitely agree tho the concept is so perfect for vil imo. like the idea of this guy who’s so fixated and obsessed with beauty (especially one who’s potentially been told that much of his worth lies in his looks) who ends up falling for someone very unconventional completely unintentionally. like theres’s a whole internal struggle in him that he doesn’t want to fall in love with this person. they’re an enemy, and unattractive at that.

but then he just can’t help but falling in love with their character; when they give hope to him and represent a goodness that he’d lost. someone who is called ugly and unwanted everyday by the world and manages to keep their head held high even if tears are pouring down their cheeks.

i think that’s a quality he’d admire a lot; kindness even when the world has been unkind. he wants to be good like that too. in a way, you’re like a mirror of the kind of goodness he wants to see in himself. you’re made fun of and put down at every turn and yet you do not let that stop you from being nice. whenever someone mocks vil, he can’t let it go, he can’t let himself be kind because it hurts and that’s the only protection he’s found.

also the idea of consciously thinking someone is unattractive but unconsciously starting to notice their eyes and lips and desire settling in- help-

unfinished drabble under the cut 👉👈 (also its fem reader bc i think medieval gender roles and the idea of ‘ugly’ woman x hot man couple is kind of important to the theme lol - aka this is just jaime x brienne rewritten but anyway-)

Vil truly believed you were ugly when he first met you. He almost never truly meant the term, but in this case, it was appropriate. Most everyone you encountered agreed. He could tell by how you’d stayed stone-faced at his cruel taunts, apparently used to it. Your features were just a bit too extreme, too out of place, too different. He’d used your appearance against you, scratching at every insecurity you’d thought of and probably some you hadn’t. Still, you hadn’t gotten angry as he’d hoped. You didn’t seek to harm him, even when he knew he’d struck a sore spot.

He persevered, but you’d never given in, despite his hopes that you would become blinded enough by anger and pain to give him a chance to escape. He admired you, in a way. It seemed as though life had beaten you down long before he’d come along, but a hardened rock had emerged from the erosion.

Sometimes his words would cut too deep for you to ignore. You never did anything rash, to his dismay, but he could tell they affected you. He didn’t feel bad; why should he? He was your hostage, and you his captor. Even if you were performing your duty, you were getting in the way of his own responsibilities, his life.

Vil was surprised to learn that you were a high-born like himself. Well, not exactly born to a family of his status and wealth, but a high-born nonetheless. He’d realized that he should’ve been addressing you with your Lady title, but you’d fought at soon as he’d tried.

No matter my origin, you know that no man sees me as a lady, Sir Vil.

They came, and they cut off his hair. One of them taunted him for being a beautiful husk. So they’d cut a deep gash across his face. Now your outside matches your inside, ‘Sir’, they’d mocked.

Vil had wished they’d cut off his head instead.

Later, after you’d managed to convince them to let you treat his wounds, he’d bemoaned to you.

Now we’re both grotesque, he’d said, a pair of freaks.

You’re not ugly, you just have a scar, you’d replied. You turned away from your task to face him. You’ll never know what it means to be ugly.

Even with his bitter remarks, you treated his wounds all the same. When he was too afraid to face himself in the reflection of the lake, you’d been the one to peel away his bandages and force him to look.

See, you’d said, not a monster, just a man.

He’d wondered if you were an angel at that moment, a saint. Or maybe you were a witch destined to lead him astray. He hadn’t really cared either way.

#twst medieval au #twst x reader #vil x reader #vil schoenheit x reader #vil schoenheit #twst #twisted wonderland #feverish-dove

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last-ofthe-starks · 2 years

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HOTD EP 3

Some thoughts and Easter eggs:

Rhaenyra’s symbol in the opening sequence is from the necklace Daemon gave her in episode one.

Viserys is missing two fingers on his left hand, and wears gloves most of the time now. His hairline has also moved back and he’s a little softer around the belly. Excellent attention to detail here.

In the opening scene, Daemon has no qualms about murdering some of his own men while on dragon back in order to defeat the crabfeeder (which has gotten him no where for three years). By the end of this episode, Daemon runs across the sand on a suicide mission in order to defeat the crabfeeder. He’d rather die than accept help from the King.

We have the first introduction / reference to Harwin “Breakbones” Strong, which book readers will know is very important later on. We also meet Larys Strong who eventually becomes Master of Whispers in the books.

Jason Lannister introduces us to the Lannister family for the first time. He gifts a spear to the king for his hunt. Ironically (and brilliantly) a Lannister spear is what kills the Stag. Brilliant foreshadowing.

Ser Criston Cole references The White Book, which depicts the best knights in the kings guard. In GOT, Brienne of Tarth updates that book at the end of season 8 when she writes down the death of Jamie Lannister.

Otto proves once again he is ~the worst~ by suggesting Rhaenyra marry Aegon, which…ew. Glad Viserys found that cringe too, but again it’s a suggestion used to push Viserys in another direction in order to further Otto’s attempts at replacing Rhaenyra as heir.

We see Seasmoke and older Leanor in this episode, which is important for next episode. But have to admit, I wasn’t crazy about his scenes on dragon back, visually.

Viserys reveals his Dragon Dream to Alicent, in which he has a son born with a crown. After Balon dies along with the Queen, it made Viserys question everything. In the books it is said that he never wavers on naming Rhaenyra as his heir. In the show, we see him falter a few times now that Alicent has revived that dream with Aegon.

Alicent is passing an olive branch to Rhaenyra a few times this episode. In the books, the two already had a completely broken relationship with Alicent taking steps to try and eliminate her as a threat to her sons claim. This show version of events (where she is aged down to be the same as Rhaenyra) has made her more sympathetic, and likable. Book Alicent is awful, so something is going to have to happen to take a whole 180° on her personality to match the books.

Rhaenyra choosing to show mercy on the white stag is very significant. The killing of the white stag was a symbol of her position as heir being taken away. Viserys struggled to kill a non-white stag that was hunted for him in order to uphold tradition and please the people, meanwhile Rhaenyra let’s the white stag live. Perhaps Aegon is not meant to be the heir…

Daemon hunted down the crab feeder without the aid of Viserys’ men and cuts him in half (in the books, it is said that he decapitated him). He is so petty I love it, because he’d rather die on a suicide mission than accept Viserys’ help. While I have already seen many people upset we didn’t get a fight between the two, keep in mind the crab feeder had severe greyscale and was already quite weak, it would have been a quick one.

#hotdedit #house of the dragon #rhaenyra targaryen #asoiaf #daemon targaryen #game of thrones #gotedit #hotd spoilers #viserys i targaryen

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elia-nymmeros · 1 month

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who would you say is your all time favourite character? could be any media, not just asoiaf :)

tysm for the ask!! i genuinely wince every time i think about favorites bc my mind suddenly wipes clean and i can't remember any piece of media ever. as far as i remember, i really like henry winter from tsh, natasha romanov from marvel and elizabeth bennet from p&p, but i'll say that right now my all time favorite character is brienne tarth. very long propaganda about her under the cut!

at the risk of sounding deranged, i could talk for hours about all the facets of her character that i think work so well with asoiaf's themes? for example, the fact that she's a genuinely ugly (and i think it's super important to her character that she's considered ugly), shy and socially awkward young woman in a world where your appearance determines your morality in the eyes of society and where noble women are expected to perform certain social roles. these traits work very well in her story about knighthood, because she's the one character in the main asoiaf saga that cannot be considered a knight by society (and, in fact, is not even considered a woman in many cases) and yet she truly embodies the values of knighthood (chivalrous, brave, defends women and children at her own cost) to the point that i think her quote 'no chance, and no choice' raises her to the position of the one true knight in westeros (echoing 'are there no true knights among you?' from dunk, her literal ancestor!).

and yet, even though she sounds like the perfect character who is superior because of her morality, she's actually not very successful canonically? like, she failed at protecting renly (and renly didn't particularly liked or respected her), she failed at protecting catelyn and has not been able to find the stark sisters so far, she failed at bringing jaime to king's landing too (and she won their duel because he'd grown rusty after being chained for months), and in her greatest scene so far, fighting seven against one, she's defeated and mutilated and has to be saved by gendry bc she's not actually superhuman and fought while heavily outnumbered.

in most other sagas she'd have been a petite and graceful girl, she'd have defeated rorge's companions without suffering debilitating injuries, she'd be loved and respected by everyone after seeing her noble personality and excellent swordsmanship. grrm goes deeper than this, so brienne embodies the traits of a knight and yet cannot ever become one, she behaves like the hero of a story and is mocked/insulted/assaulted constantly because she's not the ideal of a hero in westeros' social canon (just like dany, tyrion, jon, bran, arya, etc), she's a very capable and strong fighter and yet has also been in 3 different sides of the war with no success (and probably will end up in another side yet again if she lives to fight the others), and long emotional abuse has left her deeply insecure, paranoid, resentful and doubtful of her ability to perform gender (to the point that she calls herself a 'son' at some point bc she utterly fails at westerosi femininity)

idk, i think in her character there are a lot of super interesting themes intersecting, such as gender, social expectations and naivety, bravery and honor, self-esteem and physical ability, treachery and prejudices, what does it mean to be a good knight in an unfair, deeply hostile society, and what does it mean to be a hero where your only reward is most likely going to be injury, mutilation and/or death. she's even more interesting to me when you compare her journey/themes/decisions to her foils jaime and cersei, so there are lots of ways you can explore her character and find very cool meanings (also i've been the biggest braime shipper since i was 15, so that's a bonus!)

#asoiaf #brienne of tarth #ask box #tysm for the ask!#i'm completely normal about her #i just have like 4 metas about her character running in my mind constantly #grrm has a lot to answer with the way he writes women (especially women of color)#but he cooked with brienne

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ilynpilled · 1 year

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One of the key aspects of Jaime’s fixation on that delusional all over the place ‘targ fantasy’ with Cersei is no longer having to “hide” the relationship. Which is something that is important for Jaime as a character because he is generally getting very sick of “lies” & “facades.” And then we see that he ends up on Bran with it. A big reason this irrationality of his is huge imo is that i think he fears ever being in that kind of position again, and is trying to make it so he has it all. He does “loathe” that part, “‘the things i do for love’, he said with loathing”, the repeated immorality for sustaining love (and then in feast it is touched on more once he confesses to Ilyn after the Lancel convo that he was willing to do child murder when Cersei asked, his own soul is dark, and being with Cersei as a whole is incompatible with the desire to change that really, and that all this actions he justified himself for doing for love was all for nothing because she apparently never loved him like that if she deceived him like this in his mind, and he was just one of many other men she “used”). But here he is still at a stage where he desperately wants to make everything compromise: he still has Cersei, that light in the darkness “the only light in the world”, they are potentially out of the game in his mind “let father sit the throne, all i want is you”, he can send Brienne to save Sansa and keeps his vow, he never has to hide the affair and commit an act like that again etc etc. He wants this so bad that he does block out rationality, not just the obvious, but also everything else. So many of these desires are just inherently incompatible with each other (so many vows…), but he looks away from the information that so clearly shows otherwise. Cersei for instance wants to get him to kill Tyrion for her right now, a thought that “turns his stomach”, and what he refuses to do, so ofc the whole thing is delusional on his part. Feast arc is key in bringing it all on the surface (thank u tyrion confession catalyst)

The white dress scene is about this to me as well, other than mirroring the inn when he was 15: in Jaime’s mind he gave up everything for Cersei, and she will not do the same for him. It is the continuation of “leave me”. He notes the white and he compares it to the curtains and sheets in the room, he connects her to the white tower/kg which is tied to certain things in his mind. It symbolically places her into that new identity that he wants to have rn. It suddenly fits her neatly into his goal, this idea that he can still be “better”, this blank white slate and unsoiled cloak that he desperately wants to be and with her still in his life (which is the idea that he marries her and they leave everything behind and they would never have to hide it again, especially through things he is ashamed of like the murder of children, nor would it be a sin bc they are like targs) Cersei is not wearing green, crimson, gold etc. They can be the knight and the maiden. He can even rationalize certain rituals of violence by protecting the “purity and innocence” that she would embody (hence “i should have killed robert, not her”), they are one whole after all. All this is why he takes off the white cloak and hangs it to go and discuss, which implies that he may be ready to abandon it because he found an alternative path. It is up in the air, if they can compromise here, in his mind he could reach that delusional ‘have it all’. The “white” blank slate and Cersei both. BUT it once again crumbles, because of deep rooted differing desires and the falsehood and performance of the whole thing (on the part of both), like in the joanna dream, you cannot cover up an “ugly reality” with gold, and at the need to “hide it”, which we know he connects to Bran. It ends with him rejecting her and donning the cloak again instead, with Cersei doing the same with her hairnet, and telling him that she had lied to him a thousand times. It is also interesting to me that when Jaime rejects Cersei twice, his reasoning are: first it was the whole “not here, not infront of my dead kingsguard senpai >:(”, which ofc is extremely ironic in a lot of ways considering the relationship itself is actively disregarding his vows, and that Jaime never appeared to particularly care about location before (sept lmao). Then, the rejection in Feast is also interesting bc he pins it on “not here. not in front of the gods and father”, which is eyebrow raising considering Jaime is not very opposed to blasphemous actions (he isn’t opposed to it after this moment either), and is a generally atheistic character. I think he has a lot of other complex reasonings for rejecting the drug that is Cersei that he is not ready to face yet (not even the cheating, considering the first rejection happens before that reveal, and with the second he is not yet at a point where he is that darkly obsessed with it, nor did he confront it as something truly credible yet).

#he can be possessive but there is a lot more going on here #so so interesting that the opposite choice is made in the show #and they just continue things here lol #pushing away the white book to fuck her lol ok #jaime lannister

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agentrouka-blog · 2 years

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What would be your self-indulgent ending to ASOIAF? Or, if that's too much, just Sansa. Where do you want her story to go, and how is it getting there? Who are her friends and allies she makes along the way? Where does she travel on her journey? etc.

Hi anon!

I don't actually have too many thoughts on Sansa's ending that I would consider self-indulgent. Most of what I picture are things that I simply expect the plot to be. Queenship in the North simply makes sense. I can never tire of emphasizing that I was converted to Jonsa by the pure and simple logic of it. And the myriad hints in the text foreshadowing it. This is not wishful thinking on my part but a concrete expectation based on what I think is the most probable from GRRM's end.

Now, what self-indulgent thing would I adore about her journey there? What am I not certain about but would love?

(A lot of random things, it turns out.)

Sansa having shenanigans with the mountain clans. Just, after drama in the Vale, they help her travel, and she loathes the discomfort of the wilderness, she has inner snark even while appreciating the natural beauty around her. She perseveres in spite of neither liking nor being good at it. She learns about how their culture with the same polite curiosity she had for Ellaria Sand. And she finally forms genuine relationships with others once she is removed from the pressure of having to perform to captors or being unable to trust anyone. I would love to just watch Sansa in the process of finding her feet in a strange environment on her own terms.

I also want to see her feel safe enough with someone to just be herself. And who appreciates her in turn. Jeyne Poole and Sansa sneaking into the kitchens together to grab a secret snack and just talk and cry and comfort each other would be splendid. A sad but warm mirror to their strawberry tart escapades in KL.

I want GRRM to show us Sansa singing again. And I want him to finally make good on her talent with needlework. We've been told but we have not been shown, and since Arya's needlework is thematically important, Sansa's also has to be. And since that discrepancy is voiced in the text in the context of Jon Snow... well... some kind of garment with the Stark sigil for Jon would just make sense. With "exquisite" stitches. I want needlework metaphors that emphasize the contrast to the sword, the process of connecting and constructing.

I want big hugs, especially with Arya, who needs hugs and acceptance from Sansa, as well. I want every Starkling who ever uttered that Sansa's interest in songs and romance is "stupid" to utter something admiring about her intelligence or her soft skills. I want her to have some kind of paternal relationship that values her strengths, without an abusive or neglectful element in it (Bronze Yohn?), and I want her to have the ability to make peace with her relationship with Ned, probably in the context of someone else who has similar issues with him (Jon), and I want her to reflect on Lady and her connection to her without it being framed as inferior to full-fledged warging.

I want Sansa to get drunk and dance. Elegant courtly dancing and then just wild, jumpy, sweaty circle dances where everyone's on the verge of stumbling over each other's feet and giggling. Party all night, Sansa, you’ve earned it.

I want Brienne and Sansa to meet and Sansa to practically implode with the inner validation: A True Knight, and have her say all kinds of admiring things to Brienne who will very bravely try not to cry at Being Perceived by someone who loves every single thing she stands for.

I want Sansa in the snow again. I want her to look at Winterfell, be davastated and then straighten her spine and remember her snow castle.

I want Sansa and Ghost to form a deep bond. Essentially, her white-cloaked queensguard when Jon is in the South.

I want Sansa and Rickon to see each other again, I want him to be hugged by someone who reminds him of his mother, and for Sansa to develop a nervous twitch at having a little wildling on her hands even more temperamental than Sweetrobin.

Just.. lots of stuff! That centers around Sansa finally being free and being allowed to shine. Or form real connections, even when they are hard. Or just genuinely be annoyed at something without it being a delicate balancing act.

#sansa stark #jonsa #i love her your honor

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nightswatchdisbandmentera · 11 months

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*I’m about to do a whole lot of nonsensical rambling so feel free to ignore*

The theory that Jaime Lannister will join the Night’s Watch at the very end of the story has always intrigued me, mostly because of the very visual changes that would encapsulate his series long character arc up to that point.

Because from the very first time that we see him on page, he’s always been in colors that are bold…or even glitter in a way? His main characteristic has been that of a man of the kingsguard - a highly prestigious institution. The highest point a knight could reach I guess. Not only that but he’s also one of the greatest living knights in the land as far as sheer skill goes. But just as we’re introduced to his place in this illustrious position, we’re immediately told that he’s a kingslayer. He’s a knight whose main job is to protect the king, but he killed the damn guy (then sat on his throne as if rubbing salt in the dead man’s wounds). And it’s not badass or anything. This monicker is one given to him through mocking.

He does some pretty messed up things too (like the defenestration of poor Bran Stark). So it’s shocking (and lowkey poignant) when the very thing that helped him rise to his illustrious position (his sword hand) is taken from him and he has to in many ways start from scratch. And this starting from scratch even opens up a path to redemption for him. And an important aspect of that is the introduction of Brienne of Tarth, who to many readers represents the ideal of what a knight should strive to be even though she isn’t one necessarily: Brienne whose “no chance and no choice” lives up to the basic knightly vow of protecting the weak.

So Jaime is a white knight. A white knight in shining armor who historically is presented as an unblemished hero. But this shining knight’s white cloak is soiled - by his own admission. Then he loses his knight’s hand and goes on this journey and to a lot of us, it seems like he’s now trying to be a good guy and trying to live up to the actual idea of being a “good knight” (whatever tf that means). He’s also struggling with keeping all these vows that he swore. We as readers can’t help but to cheer for Jaime. We want him to find redemption. We want to say, “look how he made his white cloak anew! Look how he actually became the white knight in shining armor that he yearned to be”.

So him joining the Night’s Watch is not something a lot of people would say they predict for him; I certainly didn’t at first! That’s a black cloak, not a white one. Many of us want him to mend the pretty white cloak, not don the black one that has so far not represented anything positive in the story. The kingsguard is an illustrious order whereas the NW is everything but. The kingsguard holds skilled knights but we’re told that the NW is full of unskilled old men and green boys. A man of the kingsguard has great reputation but a man of the NW is at best a criminal. You join the KG for a taste of glory but are sentenced to the NW which is essentially a suspended death sentence - there is no future and you swear a vow to win no glory AND your honor goes to shit; which is absolutely hilarious because two things that are representative of Jaime as a knight, his horses, are named for ‘honor’ and ‘glory’.

But then think about it: it seems so simple right? Jaime starting out in an institution that is high in honor (theoretically) but then ending the story in another that hasn’t seen any honor in millennia seems like the very sort of thing that GRRM would do. The visual dichotomy of moving from a white cloak that is soiled to a black one that cannot be soiled is pretty neat as well - I mean you could argue that a black cloak can still be soiled just that the stain is not visible, but I choose the interpretation that whatever blemishes there are do not remove the base purpose or identity. And again, black can represent purity.

So the white -> black shift is thematically very neat…but then I always get stumped because well wait, what will the NW look like at the end of the story? And an extension of that question is who will Jaime be as a member of this NW?

The NW from the very first page of the series has been rotten to the core. It started out with this noble higher purpose (to guard the realms of men against the Others), but it has long forgotten it’s true purpose and has (in a very caricature-like performance of duty) spent thousands of years fighting against the very people it was sworn to protect. Not only that but this once great institution that housed hundreds upon hundreds of great knights (men who were once exalted from all corners of the seven kingdoms) now houses hundreds and hundreds of criminals: rapers, thieves, political prisoners, etc, from all parts of the seven kingdoms. The people who exist outside the social contract are the main part of the NW.

The NW sucks ass but(!) it’s true purpose still remains. Winter is coming and in true GRRM fashion, the very men who will have to protect the realms of men are the ones who have been cast away, damned, and forgotten by the people they’re sworn to protect. Then in comes Jon Snow (a bastard, mind you, who also exists in the fringes of society) who tries and fails to restore the NW to its true purpose. The result of his failure is well: stabby-stab-stab. Due to the mutiny at Castle Black (and the general state of the Watch up until Jon’s last chapter in ADWD), many Jon fans want the Watch to be completely destroyed. It’s rotten so might as well just get done with it…

But I’m not so sure that the total annihilation of the Watch is necessary. I’m a firm believer that the fallout from Jon Snow’s assassination (and possible death) will be the important catalyst needed to uproot the decayed moral center of the Watch. I believe that the Watch as we know it will die…but sometimes, things must die in order to be reborn. And what better way for the Watch to be reborn than with the death and rebirth of its most important member, Jon Snow? I’ve said many many times that Jon in ASOIAF is the very embodiment of the cycle of life after death; the cycle of death and decay then eventual renewal. Jon’s arc has been about taking charge of the cripples, bastards, and broken things, the criminals and the unwanted. He takes and leads the ones who are othered. And then he takes them and gives them purpose. Arms them and empowers them. Sam and the NW recruits, Arya, the wildlings, etc.

So given what Jon represents in this story and his relation to the NW (let’s be real, the NW storyline is Jon’s) I don’t think it’s fitting for the NW to be destroyed and cease to exist. Rather, it makes sense for it to die and be renewed into something closer to its true purpose: to protect the realms of men. And since I’m a firm believer that the NW will be remade, I’ve always believed it would be repurposed post WFTD to be an institution that guards the survivors and helps rebuild the land/community. The seasons will be balanced so that means that winter/death will still be coming, but first the men of the NW must live.

I not sure yet what these changes will entail but I do know that the issue or vows will come up. The swearing and keeping of oaths and vows is an important motif in both Jon’s and Jaime’s arc. Both of them struggle with the weight of keeping vows they’ve sworn to their respective institutions, especially because they’ve some times been made to perform actions that are against those vows.

In my ideal world, the entire business of swearing vows is done away with once Jon restructures the Watch. We see time and time again in his arc that there is a difference between saying and keeping oaths/vows. One of my absolute favorite scenes in the entire series is when Jon faces off against Marsh and co. in ADWD and then proceeds to recite the NW vows from start to finish because while his detractors know the vows by heart, they do not keep the spirit of them. In fact, many advocate for actions that would be the exact opposite of their vows. The lesson here being that just because you swore to do something, doesn’t mean you’ll actually follow through in ways that count.

See, I think parts of the NW vows are very important (i.e., protecting the realm, being a shield, etc). But other parts seem unnecessary. A man may be doing a bang up job of wearing no crowns or winning no glory but is he actually performing the actual job of the NW: to protect the realms of men? Part of me has always felt that an ideal NW wouldn’t need any vows to be sworn. As long as any man or woman has the will and zeal to perform the basic function of the Watch, which is to protect the realm, then no vows are necessary (might be an unpopular opinion I know).

I guess it sounds like my ideal NW is basically the BWB in its foundation: a band of people who were joined under the common goal of dispensing the king’s peace and justice; and this tracks because Jon and Beric are parallels so it shouldn’t be far fetched for the NW and BWB to also mirror each other. AFAIK, the BWB swears no fancy vow despite its noble purpose.

So I was just thinking that wouldn’t it be interesting for Jaime, a man who has struggled under the weight of a dozen vows (I’m probably exaggerating) to join an institution where no vows are necessary, but to uphold himself to a standard where he will keep the spirit of the vow anyway? Before he was made a kingsguard, he was a knight. And a knight swears to protect the weak. The NW’s purpose is to protect the men and women of the realm, with the understanding that there will be no personal benefit/gain. There will be no honor or glory, it’s just what one should do.

And I got to thinking about Jaime’s AFFC arc. This is a little reductive (forgive me for that) but he travels the Riverlands trying to establish the king’s peace. But he’s supporting a rather corrupt regime and going around with his horses named Glory and Honor, wishing and calling himself “Goldenhand the just”. He is rebuilding Westeros after the W0t5K, though this is being done under the banner and interests of the Lannister regime and under the umbrella of Lord Tywin’s legacy…which isn’t great to say the least. He, a damned man, covered up the loss of his knight’s identity with a golden arm. And while he understands that this is renewal for him, he can be something different now, he hasn’t really understood just how different he could/and needs to be.

So I’d like a reversal of his AFFC arc. But instead of a white cloak, he has a black one. There’s no honor and no glory to be won. But he decides that he wants to help rebuild Westeros the right way. There’s no benefit for him. But he will be living up to the Ser part of his name. It would even be more poignant if he’s doing this under Jon Snow, whether Jon is the 1000th LC or Lord of Winterfell or whatever. Because Jaime gains his dishonor by killing Jon’s grandfather Aerys. He donned the white cloak for Aerys. But to find honor (though unexpectedly and not out of self interest) and wear the black cloak under Jon is such an interesting continuation; let’s also remember that Jon is Ned Stark’s spiritual heir in many ways, and Jaime has a uh complicated relationship with honor as it relates to Ned Stark.

Btw I’m not advocating for Jaime to be Jon’s lapdog or anything. He’s a wholly different character whose arc exist away from Jon. I’m just mentioning Jon because there are thematic intersections, and I fully expect him to still have a relationship with the (renewed) NW at the end of the story. Thus, their arcs could possibly clash at some point.

So yeah, jaime joining the NW is something so wonderful to me because the thematic closure is actually quite rich. He doesn’t have to die for his to be a good story, and he doesn’t have to get an absurdly happy ending that ignores the things he must atone for. He’s one of my favorite characters (a solid top 5), so I have to admit that I very much want him to live. But I do want him to live and find himself at a place that provides him a purpose that he thought had eluded him. He can still be a knight, maybe not the one he wanted or expected. But it would give him the opportunity to effect some real positive change that he tried and failed to do in AFFC. A knight is sworn to protect the weak. And Westeros will be battered and bruised after the Long Night. It will need to be rebuilt, especially up north where the othered wildlings could be. So I’d like for jusrt Ser Jaime to find his purpose helping those he probably never even acknowledged.

#asoiaf #jaime lannister #valyrianscrolls #the nights watch #tagging:#jon snow #too because he’s kinda important here as an anti parallel #hope the Jaime stans don’t kill me if I’ve missed a few things here and there ashbgfxvvd #anyway….#every now and then I stop fangirling over Jon and remember Jaime exists #and I go oh wait he’s actually one of my favorite characters sfaaxdaasc #shouldn’t be surprising tho #there are some common themes in these two arcs #also forgot to add the different meanings of black and white #I mean black can also denote purity #but white is usually more…positive #the white knight just exudes more visual positivity #a black knight seems almost sinister #but the white knight choosing to don a cloak that is not as visually beautiful as a white one #but deciding to live up to the black cloak’s sacred purpose #which coincidentally lives up to the knight’s ideal #like remember when Sansa called the nw the black knights….#yeah #he’d still be a knight idk #but the subversion being that the new which is not as prestigious as illustrious as the kg #being where he lives out his days as true knight to protect the realmmm #yeahhh I love that imagery #he’s not losing himself as a knight I don’t think?#also interesting that Jon could’ve become a kingslayer in asos but was stopped by stannis ex machina lmao #typed this at 1am forgive the incoherence and typos plssss

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it-happened-once-in-a-meme · 10 months

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Alternative Barbie Movie...

...written by George R.R. Martin.

I'm not talking about the violence, or the shock-value that people often associate with Game of Thrones. I'm talking about the well-rounded female characters, ones who are important characters just as layered as the male ones, who are sometimes successful by beating gender roles - and people, also by beating people 😅😂 - who are sometimes successful by employing the knowledge they acquired by being raised the way girls are in this world.

Yet for the story to be the same as in the actual 2023 movie, there would only be one doll with anything near the possibility of three-dimensionality. To achieve the same writing of female characters as in A Song of Ice and Fire, the story of a Barbie movie would have to be different. The interesting statements and questions George makes about gender roles and women wouldn't fit into the same Barbie movie.

Because Barbie (2023) isn't primarily about stereotypical Barbie discovering the meaning of womanhood as I thought it would be. It's about her beginning - and only beginning - to discover the meaning of being human, and noticing some things about being percieved as a woman, while being percieved as one of the prettiest.

Gloria's speech highlights some very important things about the perception and expectations of women, but it feels less authentic than the fragments of the same argument scattered across A Song of Ice and Fire, because there the women have various types of views, and sometimes even use false reasoning, for example Cersei arguing that women can use sex to get what they want because men fight and fuck the way they want as well: so saying that because men do what they want including bad things, then women can do so as well, instead of saying that everyone has a right to their own body.

Sometimes it can be good to have other female characters question a statement another character made about gender roles (for example when Catelyn didn't completely agree with Brienne's comparison of knights in war to Ladies).

In conclusion, the things that were said in the Barbie movie are good, and I hope that everyone who's ever attacked because of their looks or weight just starts chanting Gloria's speech like it's the Night's Watch's oath, but there need to be more stories like A Song of Ice and Fire, where the female characters are more diversely flawed than just wanting to keep their power and ignoring men. Sex and gender equality in entertainment isn't just about whether the narrative is sexist or not, it's about whether the characters are given the same level of depth.

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the-great-ladyg · 4 months

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Hey.🙂

crush & darling for Brienne?

Hello! Now I can gush a bit more about this pretty woman, sorry if my answers are not that good, I'm still working on my S/I for her

crush — when did your f/o realize their feelings for you? how did they deal with those feelings?

Brienne realized she had feelings for me when she was talking to Podrick while they were looking for food in the Riverlands, Podrick was a bit worried if I could keep up with the journey and Brienne was quick to say I could do it, that I was strong and brave and Podrick noticed the way she said it, the same way she talked about Renly a few months ago, then the kid pointed it out (poor child, he needed so much courage to say that out loud) and Brienne just blushed and tried to continue hunting, but Podrick's words still resonated on her mind.

It was a mix of two things, by one side she tried to deny her feelings, since she was taught from childhood a relationship between women is not correct (you know, the Faith's puritanical point of view that the only acceptable relationship is between men and women to create babies, not for pleasure), and she might be afraid of more rejection and mockery for being "too manly". By the other side, she is eager to be loved and love someone, if I show her any PDA she might just blush and fall even more in love with me, just like she did with Renly after being showed the bare minimum of respect.

darling — what outfits would you both wear on a date? feel free to show pics!

First of all, a date between us would be secret, she might be afraid of people seeing us and judging her more about dating a woman, but she would still wear something to impress me.

Brienne would dress in two ways, depending on the place we are (and yes, I'm not following GoT's logic of dressing her in knight's clothing 24/7 even in an important event like the royal wedding)

If we're in the Red Keep or Evenfall Hall in Tarth, she might wear a blue dress, she's a highborn lady and she knows I consider her very pretty wearing dresses (not that I think she should always wear more feminine clothing, on the few times she does she's the most beautiful woman on the Known World)

Let's pretend this are medieval dresses, okay? It's kind of hard to find hystorical accurate clothing, specially for women

If we somewhere like the Riverlands looking for Sansa or visiting Myr, she might dress like a knight without her armour since she's more comfortable that way, also in blue colors since that's the color she wore while in the Rainbow Guard and is her eye color

For me, I wouldn't wear a dress or follow Westerosi fashion, since in Myr women can dress like men without a problem, and since I usually wear pants for my tasks, I would dress in a similar way to Amicia in 'A Plague Tale', specially when she also wears her knight clothing, and Brienne would love it

If Brienne wishes to see me in a dress for a date, she might ask a maiden to fix one of her dresses to fit me, since she thinks I can wear them like a "true lady" should

#🗡️💎#lady answers #proselfship #proship selfship #selfship proship #selfproship #self ship

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reginarubie · 3 years

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The younger, more beautiful Queen - Cersei and Sansa (and Daenerys and Margaery; and Brienne of Tarth)

When Cersei recalls Maggy the Frog's prophecy about her being casted down by a younger, more beautiful queen we were all ready, thinking that younger, more beautiful Queen was supposed to be Sansa; then Margaery entered the picture and how could anyone actually ignore the dragon queen in the east and the threat she posed to Cersei and everything she stood for?

At which point many theorized each and every of three girls, younger and all described as beautiful may be the younger, more beautiful queen and would fulfill a part of Cersei's prophecy, each taking something she cared for from her. Which has many merits, especially thinking about how much Martin dislikes prophecies and likes playing around with them nudging towards the realization that we as people are the one who make our own destiny with Cersei being the real catalyst of everything Maggy the Frog prophetized for her.

Under the cut, my own personal vision of this prophecy and why I think that, no matter who will actually cause Cersei's downfall directly, Sansa (assuming she ending as QitN is also book!endgame, which we have good reason to believe it shall be so) is actually the younger, more beautiful queen.

People way more talented than me have already talked about this matter, but I wanted to give my input about it as well because I like to talk and this has been sitting in my files way too long and now I've decided to share with you all to see what you think about it.

Beneath her golden curls, the girl's face wrinkled up in puzzlement. For years after, she took those words to mean that she would not marry Rhaegar until after his father Aerys had died. "I will be queen, though?" asked the younger her.

"Aye." Malice gleamed in Maggy's yellow eyes. "Queen you shall be ... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear."

Anger flashed across the child's face. "If she tries I will have my brother kill her."

Maggy 's prophecy has haunted Cersei all these years since first the words had been uttered and it's no wonder. Now, we know Cersei married the king - Robert Baratheon, first of his name - after he had won the Realm through conquest and we also know that the other part of Maggy's prophecy, about Cersei having three children and the King many more than her. So it stands to reason that this part may also come to be true in some way or the other.

Though show!canon has derailed and distanced itself from book!canon, it must hold some kind of importance that Cersei asks Jaime to find Sansa and kill her especially if we connect it with what child Cersei told Maggy the Frog "if she tries I will have my brother kill her"; while she easily, in the show, decides she will be the one to cause Margaery demise as well as Daenerys's.

But let's break the prophecy and try to determinate what exactly it may mean to Cersei now.

Maggy tells her that she will be the Queen for a time, which we know to be the truth, and that she will have three children while the king (Robert) will have over seventeen. She also tells Cersei that one day another may come, that she will be younger and more beautiful.

Note, the first person we know Cersei describes as beautiful, by her words, is Sansa both in show and the book.

In the very first episode of the series, when Martin was still very much part of the writing process of the episodes, Cersei comments on Sansa's beauty and on how it would be wasted in the North (foreshadowing in my opinion Sansa growing past her enamourment with beauty and return North to stay, but I digress).

While in Sansa VI, AGOT, she states "such a beautiful child. I do hope you know how much Joffrey and I love you"

Also, note that this is said about Margaery Tyrell in AFFC in Cersei III: “When all the vows were spoken, the king and his new queen stepped outside the sept to accept congratulations. "Westeros has two queens now, and the young one is as beautiful as the old one," boomed Lyle Crakehall, an oaf of a knight who oft reminded Cersei of her late and unlamented husband.”

(Guess maybe it can’t be Margaery after all tho I do remember someone saying someone else, someone younger — Catelyn about Sansa — would grow even more beautiful than she was and though she did not mean to confront Sansa with Cersei, but with herself, the phrasing did stuck me as strange)

So this girl coming to cast Cersei down will be younger (and all candidates for the place are younger than Cersei) and more beautiful (now this could be as simple as a math count of how many times each candidate is described as beautiful and confront that number with Cersei's).

The counts now stands as following:

Sansa: 18 times (without sharing those times with anyone, all on her own; 2 times she is defined as more beautiful than someone older)

Drawing by @innocent-enyo; sorry I took your pics, I fell in love with them! If it bothers you I will take them down!

Cersei: 17 times (thyo sometimes shared with Margaery so the counts, if we count the shared times with Margaery goes up to 20)

Drawing always by innocent-enyo.

[honorable mention] Brienne of Tarth: 8 times (wouldn’t it be just perfect if Brienne did manage of convince Jaime to fuck loyalty and follow her instead of Cersei? Oh wait… that’s already show canon) after all if every girl can be the another younger, more beautiful who will take (something) everything from Cersei why not Brienne the Beauty?, especially since it’s said sarcastically yet she is far more fair and beautiful in character than Cersei is. I would appreciate the irony and the twist, all I am saying 🤷🏼‍♀️

Drawing by Lucas Werneck.

Margaery: 7 times(of which 3 shared with Cersei)

Margaery Tyrell by innocent-enyo as well.

Daenerys: only 5 times (?! I am surprised as well, tho to be fair she is described as the most beautiful woman in the world once and she was asked if she had grown more beautiful in a lapse of time, but never confronted to another older)

Daenerys Targaryen by innocent-enyo again!

So we have a neck-to-neck between Sansa and Cersei.

And tho I do think each girl will fulfill part of the prophecy (to save Margaery from her marriage to Joffrey he is killed, which catalyses the series of events which brings to Tywin’s death and Myrcella’s; Brienne did convince in the show Jaime to leave Cersei behind for a time; Sansa took her legacy in a way becoming the second ruling queen of a kingdom of Westeros; Margaery in a way took away Tommen as well in the show since learning of her death he committed suicide; Daenerys took the throne and the promise of the child in the show) I think Sansa will be in the end the younger more beautiful queen because the stress on the prophecy is put on the fact that this Queen will take everything Cersei’s holds dear…

…what did Cersei want? [note; now we enter in the show only realm and book hypothesis of the story since we have yet to see the last two books]

To save and protect those she loved; she failed by her ultimate fault;

have the younger, more beautiful queen and enemy killed by her brother (lover)

To sit on the throne as queen regnant because she feels she deserves it.

To be with the man she loves publicly.

What did Sansa achieve by the end of the show:

She marched her troops South and managed to get Jon free and her plotting assured that her siblings were safe (they protected her as well)

Her “brother” (lover?, Martin I have faith in you) killed her rival (Daenerys) to protect her and their family.

She gains the North independence and is named Queen in the North and is the queen with the strongest power love and loyalty (“Ned Stark’s daughter will speak for them, she’s the best they could ask for” and “we didn’t choose you to rule us m’lady but perhaps we should have”)

I truly believe in the books she will end up (or it will be hinted at) with a man she loves or will grow to love.

So, imo, while each and every girl may take something from Cersei and perhaps none of them (fAegon I’m looking at you, sweetie) or only one of them will manage to directly cause her death and defeat in the end Sansa will be the younger, more beautiful Queen because all that Cersei held dear and wanted she managed to achieve and she will be remembered the way Cersei wanted to be remembered, which is ultimately imo the true meaning of Maggy the Frog’s prophecy.

#younger more beautiful queen #asoiaf theories #cersei lannister #sansa stark #daenerys targaryen #margaery tyrell #brienne of tarth

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kylandara · 2 years

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What are things you would praise Sansa Stark for? Do you think it matters that some of her accomplishments were achievable only due to the help she received from other characters?

Kelsey...

As to the first question, there are two qualities of hers that stand out:

She learns from her mistakes. She might screw up, and she might screw up badly. But generally she seems to reflect on where she went wrong and at least make a considered, self-aware attempt to better herself. She shows actual growth as a person. She’s shown herself to be highly adaptable, mentally resilient and, eventually, shrewd. I think at this point she has a survivor’s mentality, and it will serve her well going forward. She’s also one of the very few characters left who has not had any sort of direct, first-hand brush with the supernatural (beyond, in the books, being a latent warg herself, of course) — no dragons, fire zealot priests, ice monsters, sorcerer-assassins, greenseers and so on. If the story will end with magic being stamped out or sent back into an ebb, she seems the best-positioned to deal with the “real” world.

She’s the best kind of sieve. She’s able to process experiences and relationships with people and filter out the bad while keeping the good or the useful. Her relationship with Cersei is a good example of this: Sansa is able to filter out Cersei’s bad qualities (cruelty, lack of care for people in her charge, being power-hungry) while retaining what it is about Cersei that can improve her (namely, giving as good as you get and not taking anyone’s shit). She does it with Littlefinger, too — she learns how to schmooze and glad-hand and persuade people without going too far and while having some higher purpose than herself in mind. This is related to the first point, but not quite the same.

As to the second question:

Tyrion is alive now only because Jaime and Varys bailed him out before he could be executed — on top of Podrick saving him at the Blackwater and Bronn volunteering to fight for him at the Eyrie.

Dany is where she is because three dragon eggs were given to her because she’s a Targaryen and for absolutely no other reason. This is on top of characters like Jorah and Barristan backing her up continuously; she also has people left in Meereen to clean up after her when she leaves.

Arya had Yoren to get her out of King’s Landing, Jaqen to help her escape Harrenhal and Sandor to keep her alive until she could get to Braavos.

Jon got a priceless Valyrian sword because his dog overheard the ice zombies in time and Jeor Mormont was feeling generous. He also had Yrgitte to help him assimilate into wildling society and Sam’s bottomless well of historical knowledge.

Bran had Jojen, Meera and Hodor to get him to Bloodraven’s cave, and had Bloodraven communicate important information to him.

Jaime had Brienne to get him back to King’s Landing when his hand was hacked off.

Brienne in turn had Catelyn to help her escape Renly’s camp and then Jaime to give her a priceless Valyrian sword.

Davos was knighted for smuggling onions.

Sam had Jon to protect him from bullies at the Wall.

In other words, who exactly in this story hasn’t had help from other characters? If Sansa’s character arc is “compromised” because she received assistance, what are we to make of characters like Tyrion and Arya who always manage to have someone to whisk them out of a jam, or someone like Dany who can keep failing upward ad nauseam? Sansa’s not the beneficiary of anything that anyone else isn’t, and then some.

#Sansa Stark #team sansa #anti Sansa-Haters #quorarepeatmaybe

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bidonica · 2 years

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How much does status play into beauty standards? For instance if Ashara was royalty would she be considered more beautiful than a non queen Cersei in westros or wouldn’t it matter?

I guess status definitely helps hype someone’s beauty because they’re more likely to be talked about by people and also, realistically speaking, they have better living conditions which facilitate maintaining features that people find beautiful (smooth skin, a healthy glow, etc.) and also to prop them up with things like nice clothes. You see it in real life with how we tend to rate most celebrities as more beautiful than average, which is sometimes true, because beauty is often one of the reasons they’ve become famous, but also they have a whole system around them that helps them maintain and emphasize that beauty. It’s amusing when people on twitter gush about, say, Jennifer Lopez, because she looks great at 50. And I’m like, of course she does! She was always an attractive woman and she has the time and resources to keep her body fit, her skin smooth, and her wardrobe always on point with perfectly fitted clothes. Same for when celebs and wealthy ppl in general get pregnant and then bounce back to their pre pregnancy body at the speed of light. The average woman can approximate that, but usually not as effectively and at a higher relative cost.

Going back to the original question - yeah probably if an Ashara Dayne were queen, or simply just a highborn woman like she effectively was, while Cersei was a commoner, Ashara’s beauty would be the one that’s hyped and that possibly got songs written about, etc., while Cersei would still turn heads but she would be like, the most beautiful woman in her village or something without becoming famous across the realm, and might have started showing her age sooner. So yeah, beauty is magnified by status because status gives people the tools to cultivate and preserve their beauty, together with exposure.

Status is also a shield. In my opinion it’s the reason why Selyse’s “ugliness” might attract some snide comment (which are mostly aimed at Stannis anyway - his wife isn’t beautiful! Oh woe! 🙄), but she’s still the queen consort, and even before proclaiming himself king Stannis was still in the line of succession and an important lord. On top of this, Selyse already came from a very wealthy, important family herself; being ugly didn’t really put a dent in her social capital.

Compare and contrast with Brienne, whose life choices and gender nonconformity, while not putting her at the same level of a commoner, have entailed giving up on part of the protection her status would give her. Her ugliness is constantly brought up by people as a way to diminish her, even though she’s moving in an arena where looks shouldn’t really matter. It’s true that she was mocked and belittled for her looks even before she left her sheltered life on Tarth to become a knight, but my guess is that had she succumbed to societal expectations, she would have found a match sooner or later, and by fitting in the conventional role of wife and mother and all the other things expected by a highborn lady, her looks would have become less relevant because her status would have consolidated. But Brienne doesn’t play that game, and the people she meets feel entitled to mock her for her looks to her face.

#asoiaf #cersei lannister #beauty in westeros #ashara dayne #selyse florent #selyse baratheon #brienne of tarth

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ilynpilled · 1 year

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so Jaime’s arc is not really about redemption it is about identity and reckoning with the self

not this again dude. i agree with the latter but saying jaime’s story is not about redemption is still wrong (the very concepts you just pointed out are tied to aspects of redemption), like the author explicitly stated multiple times that it is exploring that. just because a story is not dealing with it the way you see it in atla or ted lasso etc or whatever (it is an arc written for a different demographic), does not mean it is not already interrogating it, again, all the quotes are over here: link

at the end of the series, it will likely be reasonable for people to view him as someone “redeemed” or “not enough”, some may forgive him and some may not, the question being sincerely posed is whether it is possible to come back from all that, (jaime is a very very flawed human being, he is on a different level of horrible than a lot of characters dealing with the possibility of redemption, he is not a “jerk with a heart of gold”, he is described by the author as someone who was an “idealistic young boy disillusioned by life” and had fallen and decayed in drastic ways. at the beginning of the text he is genuinely a horrible and evil human being. like he lost his way completely. i think george does not really view people as “good” or “evil” deep down. he thinks we are what our choices make us, and we have the capacity to be or do anything. working through something like that should be written with this much ambiguity. him having hope rekindled will not suddenly make those 20 years and the flaws it created or nurtured disappear. starting a path like that is not gonna be a clear linear process at all), and he says he will not give you a resounding answer. like i genuinely think this is established in the text as well pretty clearly.

“Are you saying you are monsters?”

“I am saying we are human. You are not the only one with wounds, Lady Brienne. Some of my brothers were good men when this began. Some were . . . less good, shall we say? Though there are those who say it does not matter how a man begins, but only how he ends. I suppose it is the same for women.”

like even thoros alludes to the author’s question when he says this to brienne at the end of affc (guess who was called a monster and told his crimes are past forgiveness by brienne herself, ntm that their chapters are in dialogue in feast.) i completely agree that much of jaime’s affc arc is misread and a lot of people misunderstand what the ‘goldenhand the just’ and his trajectory there is mainly about for example and take it at face value and a triumph, but jaime does develop and a lot of his incompatible desires are addressed and he lands on an interesting jumping off point in that book, and these same concepts are still in the process of being explored there too in a sincere way by the author. + he does make a very important choice at the end of adwd by abandoning everything else that is going on with him to go with brienne alone because he was told sansa would die otherwise. and the motivations and set up for that choice atp in the story are interesting, especially the thought processes that occur right before it. and i think people should look at which vow of the so many vows that choice embodies. also his final dream with joanna where he is missing the golden hand feels like a statement on the major dichotomy that his arc was interrogating recently. to me it implies that he is obviously no “goldenhand the just”, and that reputation in general feels like a delusional dream that he cannot have, nor is he his violent and grotesque two handed self that is analogous to the mountain (ntm the anti parallels between him and the mountain & tywin in that adwd chapter) or the smiling knight. the golden hand is not just about his dreams of honor & glory, in the subtext it also feels like a recreation of his past self, something to fill up the hole left by his cursed hand, it is connected to revenge and violence in a plethora of ways throughout his narrative, other than that obvious violent cersei & moonboy/pia & mountain dream, in asos before he even got it he fantasized about it ripping vargo hoat’s throat out—and we see how in feast revenge loses its savor to him entirely when he actually sees the brutality that happened to hoat. lsh is set up as a pretty significant confrontation. it is being confronted with his darkest sins and the monster created by the lannister regime in a direct way. revenge vs forgiveness vs mercy is also a theme inherent to undead cat and her role in the story, concepts pretty relevant to jaime too atm. affc ends with the gold being gone and him looking uncomprehendingly at the ugliness of the stump. so what now?

i do not see the point of being like “it is about identity actually” (ok. what does that mean though for him? what do you mean by that? it is, but how is that not tied to the exploration of redemption in his story?) like what are the implications of this exactly? in general i am not that obsessed with trying to sum up such a complicated and currently unfinished character arc with a single all encompassing word. all of these things are vague and hard to truly and objectively define so who cares. jaime’s story has been, multiple times, referred to as an exploration of the possibility of forgiveness and redemption by the author himself. and even then, it is “one of the things”, like there is still so much else going on, so “identity” for example is not supposed to be a contradiction of that. it is whatever he chose. like you will have to take it up with george and not me if you do not get that out of the text atp. i am sick of the semantics especially of this conversation for fucking real though. i feel like ppl misunderstand a bit what i mean when i say put that word into the fire.

#ask #jaime lannister

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melrosing · 3 years

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did they actually read the chapter? Jaime is exhibiting sexual attraction to Brienne within the first few pages, there is never going to be this choice between a sex life and an inspiring woman or whatever. it's so demeaning to Cersei as well to reduce her to Jaime's sex life, and deny Brienne sexuality on the other hand because she's not beautiful.

okay, I think what was actually said on this podcast is going to get lost in translation over here if I just kind of vaguely refer to arguments I disagreed with. so to start with, I think anyone who's interested in what the NotACast guys and Dr Shiloh had to say on Jaime & Brienne would be best off listening to it themselves, I really don't want to misrepresent them here.

but I'll share the quote I was referring to, and preface that by saying that PoorQuentyn/Emmett does flat out state earlier in the episode that yeah, Jaime is sexually attracted to Brienne. he refers to the usual quotes, i.e. Jaime eyeing up her calves, picturing her in a dress, admiring her eyes, etc, etc. so far so good lol, obviously we've very much been over all that over in this sphere of fandom, but NotACast is most popular amongst fans from different spheres, including many fans who have not engaged at all with the discourse around JB. so, makes sense to include these foundational readings in the podcast.

anyway, the quote I was referring to (don't look at me transcribing is a weird hobby of mine):

PQ [1:19:56]: It’s interesting to me that you have this… kind of trying to decouple the courtly elements from the sexual elements? Because Jaime and Brienne do have that - more kind of - the chaste elements of the romance, with the actual sexuality kind of displaced onto Cersei. And it does feel like… it does feel like to me on some level that Jaime kind of wishes he could combine these two women. Like that would be the ideal for him*laughs*. As if he could force Brienne and Cersei into like, a machine from The Fly or something, and just make himself… that for him would be kind of the ideal, and I wonder if what George is trying to do is make that romantic ideal impossible for Jaime, by splitting it into two people. And saying, you can either have… your traditionally beautiful woman, you know, who you’ve been obsessed with, and your partner, or you can be with a person who makes you feel like a true knight. But these are antithetical. And I think that’s interesting.

(I'm putting the rest under the cut because this is long.)

this take is actually kind of bizarre when you consider the fact that, as I said, PQ has already acknowledged that there is a sexual element to JB. perhaps he's just riffing off of the convo BBF and and Dr Shiloh have just had where they wonder where to place Cersei in the conversation between JB and Arthuriana. personally I'd say that Cersei doesn't really belong in that conversation, and that's kind of the point: Jaime's wanted her to, but she never has. however, Dr Shiloh argues that Cersei and Brienne parallel the two women in Lancelot's life, where Lancelot is Jaime, Cersei = Guinevere, Brienne = Elaine of Corbenic (I... do not agree lmao but that's a separate matter)

so PQ's following on from this strain, comparing and contrasting the roles of Brienne and Cersei in Jaime's narrative, just feeling around for what sounds right by the looks of it. however! this does not sound right to me. let's unpack!!!!

It’s interesting to me that you have this… kind of trying to decouple the courtly elements from the sexual elements? Because Jaime and Brienne do have that - more kind of - the chaste elements of the romance

so as we've just established, there are sexual elements to JB in Jaime I alone, but they do not stop there: they get more pronounced. in fact by Jaime III they're already pretty explicit: JB have that entire sword fight in the river that is literally screaming look at their physical chemistry (I wrote more on that here) - the whole fight is half written as a sex scene, it's not remotely subtle.

and of course the undertones continue, to the point that they're not even undertones anymore, it's just Jaime getting an erection in the bath as he stares at Brienne's naked body.

but there are courtly elements too, and I won't list all of them off but these are best encapsulated in Jaime IX, where JB are almost meeting again for the first time, as they might in a traditional courtly setting where Jaime is dressed as a dashing knight and Brienne is dressed as a highborn lady, and they kind of awkwardly compliment each other, and instead of the lady bestowing a sword and a quest upon her knight it's the other way round, etc etc you know I love this shit lmao ANYWAY

so it's pretty clear Jaime and Brienne have both bases covered: the courtly and the sexual, and that they do, as the hosts observe in the episode, switch between the roles of the knight and the damsel. the whole point is that they gel perfectly: in falling in love they do not force the other into a contained role, but rather liberate the other from what was a contained role.

MEANWHILE.

...with the actual sexuality kind of displaced onto Cersei.

is the 'actual sexuality' displaced onto Cersei? or is it just that Cersei is the only person Jaime has had sex with so far? as we've established, Jaime and Brienne have a distinct physical chemistry, and we even get a subtle little comparison between this and that which Jaime has with Cersei here:

Her arm was all gooseflesh, clammy and chilled, but she was strong, and gentler than he would have thought. Gentler than Cersei, he thought [JAIME V, ASOS]

Cersei has been his only partner for all of his life, but that does not make her his perfect match in that respect.

moving on.

I wonder if what George is trying to do is make that romantic ideal impossible for Jaime, by splitting it into two people. And saying, you can either have… your traditionally beautiful woman, you know, who you’ve been obsessed with, and your partner, or you can be with a person who makes you feel like a true knight. But these are antithetical.

so PQ says on the one hand Jaime has Cersei, who is his passionate, beautiful, lifelong partner, and on the other there's Brienne, a chaste figure who makes him feel good about himself. and that these two things are antithetical, making the romantic ideal impossible for Jaime.

so. to start with, nowhere does ASOIAF state that Brienne can't be a passionate partner. she hasn't had the chance to be one yet, no, but this is, er, a story, things change and evolve, and we literally have evidence of passion between Jaime and Brienne on the page already.

second, Brienne is not beautiful, that's right! but that doesn't mean she falls short of a romantic ideal for Jaime??? I know I always bring up JB x Beauty and the Beast, but come on, they are literally based on a fairytale that says that love isn't about beauty, it's about the heart. and in any case, Jaime has been shown experiencing sexual attraction to women like Hildy and Pia (post-injury), who are not what society calls beautiful. he admires Cersei's beauty, sure, but we don't see anywhere that it is of the utmost importance to Jaime that his partner is beautiful. it's important to Cersei - but not Jaime.

third, PQ points out that Cersei's this lifelong obsession for Jaime, and surely that counts for something in balancing her against Brienne. well... no?? Jaime's obsession with Cersei has been based on the lies he tells himself about her, and the lies she's told him. Jaime has desperately wanted Cersei to be this benevolent figure that completes him, that he can love and protect as a true knight. she isn't, and he realises that now, and has unambiguously left her. of course he still thinks about her, it was a lifelong relationship, it was that thing he always thought of when he wanted comfort and to feel less alone, but that doesn't mean that he can't appreciate the lie in that, and the futility of his obsession.

so Brienne is not antithetical to what Cersei never was in the first place. in fact, Brienne is very much the kind of woman Jaime has wanted in Cersei (honest, loyal, loving), but simultaneously, yes, a person who inspires him, and who is just as capable of playing the role Jaime once assigned to himself. Jaime always believed his duty was to protect and comfort Cersei. with Brienne, he finds he can also be protected himself, and comforted himself. that's that whole damsel/knight switcheroo that NotACast were so taken with. that's the romantic ideal being, actually, perfectly possible for Jaime and Brienne both, it just... doesn't look as they thought it did.

ANYWAY. that's my thoughts on that. and for the record I do not think the podcast is bad or that the hosts are stupid and the last thing I want to do here is encourage any negativity towards them. I just thought that take was daft and wanted to take it apart with my bare hands lmao

#ask #jaime x brienne #asoiaf

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jeynearrynofthevale · 4 years

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Sansa Stark is a lesbian and here’s why:

So, in honor of sapphicsansafest, I’m making a meta master post about why I believe Sansa is a lesbian. This will include a few quotes and I’m going to separate it into a few sections.

Sansa’s descriptions of other women:

“The queen was drinking heavily, but the wine only seemed to make her more beautiful; her cheeks were flushed, and her eyes had a bright, feverish heat to them as she looked down over the hall. Eyes of wildfire, Sansa thought.”

Even when Sansa hates Cersei, her descriptions of her are always focused around her beauty. The way she describes her eyes and cheeks is also similar to the way the men that are attracted to Cersei describe her.

“Twenty mules awaited them within the waycastle, along with two mule-walkers and the Lady Myranda Royce. Lord Nestor’s daughter proved to be a short, fleshy woman, of an age with Mya Stone, but where Mya was slim and sinewy, Myranda was soft-bodied and sweet-smelling, broad of hip, thick of waist, and extremely buxom. Her thick chestnut curls framed round red cheeks, a small mouth, and a pair of lively brown eyes.”

Similarly, her description of Myranda is very focused around her looks and specific details like her being “sweet smelling” and “extremely buxom” seem to point towards Sansa being attracted to Margaery. Once again Sansa’s descriptions of women mimic the way straight men describe them. Sansa’s interactions with Myranda are something I'll comment on later.

“Sansa had never been this close to the Dornishwoman before. She is not truly beautiful, she thought, but something about her draws the eye.”

Her description of Ellaria is also interesting as it helps show that the way Sansa thinks about women isn’t solely an aesthetic appreciation. She also enjoys the way unconventionally attractive women look.

“Slim and sinewy, Mya looked as tough as the old riding leathers she wore beneath her silvery ringmail shirt. Her hair was black as a raven's wing, so short and shaggy that Alayne suspected that she cut it with a dagger. Mya's eyes were her best feature, big and blue. She could be pretty, if she would dress up like a girl. Alayne found herself wondering whether Ser Lothor liked her best in her iron and leather, or dreamed of her gowned in lace and silk.”

This might be the best example of Sansa’s attraction to women. She once again thinks about the beauty of a woman who isn’t conventionally attractive and she even comments on her eyes. She then contextualizes her attraction by convincing herself that she’s thinking from a man’s perspective. In reality though she’s thinking about how Mya looks her best to her and is unable to really think of that because it's not considered proper.

“When Margaery Tyrell smiled, she looked very like her brother Loras.”

This one is pretty self explanatory. She thinks of how lovely Margaery looks repeatedly and when Margaery is admirable and happy, she once again contextualizes her attraction by bringing a man into the picture.

My thoughts on her “crushes” on men:

Now, her 3 real crushes in the books are Joffrey Baratheon, Loras Tyrell, and Waymar Royce. They all follow a very similar template. Men straight out of the songs and stories that Sansa loves.

“Sansa did not really know Joffrey yet, but she was already in love with him. He was all she ever dreamt her prince should be, tall and handsome and strong, with hair like gold.”

And

“Joffrey smiled and kissed her hand, handsome and gallant as any prince in the songs.”

Joffrey is someone Sansa likes because he’s the prince out of songs, the idealized prince in the stories. And Sansa loves songs and stories so she thinks she loves Joffrey. When she comments on Joffrey’s beauty, it’s almost always in the context of songs or stories. He’s also the easiest crush, her betrothed who she has to learn to love.

“Ser Gregor was the monster and Ser Loras the true hero who would slay him. He even looked a true hero, so slim and beautiful, with golden roses around his slender waist and his rich brown hair tumbling down into his eyes.”

And

“Wed to Ser Loras, oh . . . Sansa's breath caught in her throat. She remembered Ser Loras in his sparkling sapphire armor, tossing her a rose. Ser Loras in white silk, so pure, innocent, beautiful.”

Loras is also an ideal out of the songs. Sansa says it herself. He’s the hero she wants. She always thinks of him in that context. It makes sense that she crushes on him. He’s a safe easy crush. It’s like the asoiaf equivalent of crushing on some guy in a boyband.

Sansa’s interactions with Margaery

“You will love Highgarden as I do, I know it.” Margaery brushed back a loose strand of Sansa’s hair. “Once you see it, you’ll never want to leave. And perhaps you won’t have to.”

The way Margaery tries to appeal to Sansa and talk to her almost echoes a flirtation. Pushing a strand of hair behind someone’s ear is a textbook romantic move. And the persuasion relies on Sansa liking Margaery and is all about finding love.

“”Margaery’s kindness had been unfailing, and her presence changed everything.”

The way Sansa thinks of Margaery is quite striking and loving. It is as though Margaery was this big important force in Sansa’s life.

“Margaery was different, though. Sweet and gentle, yet there was a little of her grandmother in her, too. The day before last she’d taken Sansa hawking.”

Sansa also goes on what pretty much amounts to dates with Margaery. And the sentiment of Margaery being different is very similar to Arya’s thoughts on Gendry: “Only Gendry was different” and their relationship is often considered to have romantic undertones. It’s also interesting that gentle is used to describe Margaery when that is one of the words Ned used to describe Sansa’s future romance.

“She is so brave, Sansa thought, galloping after her.”

Sansa clearly admires Margaery immensely and her thoughts are always complimentary. She clearly crushes on her.

Sansa’s interactions with Myranda:

And you must be the Lord Protector’s daughter,” she added, as the bucket went rattling back up to the Eyrie. “I had heard that you were beautiful. I see that it is true.”

Alayne curtsied. “My lady is kind to say so.”

“Kind?” The older girl gave a laugh. “How boring that would be. I aspire to be wicked. You must tell me all your secrets on the ride down. May I call you Alayne?”

The complimenting of Sansa’s beauty is another common trope in flirtation. And the way she interacts is very sexual and ostentatious. It’s flirty. And asking to call someone by their first name is also a romantic trope.

“Randa. It seems a hundred years since I was four-and-ten. How innocent I was. Are you still innocent, Alayne?”

She blushed. “You should not ... yes, of course.”

Sansa is nervous around Myranda in a way she’s not around men. She even blushes. Myranda is also directly questioning Sansa about her sexual experience.

“Despite herself, Alayne found herself warming to the older girl.”

She starts developing a crush.

“She is trying to make me blush again.

Lady Myranda must have heard her thoughts. “You do turn such a pretty shade of pink. When I blush I look quite like an apple. I have not blushed for years, though.” She leaned closer.”

Once again, this is super flirty and seductive. She’s complimenting Sansa on her blush and implying her own experience. This whole conversation is ripe with that stuff.

“She ate with Mya and Myranda. “So you’re brave as well as beautiful,” Myranda said to her.

“No.” The compliment made her blush. “I’m not. I was so scared. I don’t think I could have crossed without Lord Robert.”

Once again Sansa blushes at Myranda’s comments.

“By the time they finally reached her father’s castle, Lady Myranda was drowsing too, and Alayne was dreaming of her bed.”

This is some interesting word play. It might not be intentional but ships like Braime have similar lines.

And a few miscellaneous/bonus things:

“Septa Mordane said all men are beautiful, find his beauty, try.”

This is how Sansa thinks about Tyrion. She’s a child forcibly married to him so she’d probably judge him harshly regardless but this phrasing struck me. It’s very similar to the way lgbtq people are often told to try to love another gender even if they cannot. And the way Septa Mordane taught Sansa about attraction and gender obviously has a huge influence on her perception of her own sexuality.

“When a serving girl brought her supper, she almost kissed her.”

And this is Sansa thinking about kissing a girl.

“I am coming for you, Lady Sansa, she thought as she rode into the darkness. Be not afraid. I shall not rest until I've found you.”

The fact that the true knight Sansa wishes for, the hero out of the stories, the romantic trope is Brienne, a woman, has some awesome queer implications. Even if her relationship with Brienne isn’t really a romantic one, it certainly fits the idea of courtly love.

#asoiaf #sansa stark #lesbian Sansa Stark #sapphicsansafest #sansasource #sansaery #Sansa x Myranda #Sansa x Mya #asoiaf meta #my meta

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servantofthefates · 3 years

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Why I Hate the Game of Thrones Tarot Deck

Because the show is known for its countless interesting characters. Yet somehow, the author of this abomination decided to use Jon, Dany and Sansa a million times, while pretending that a Son of the Harpy is more important than Robb, Catelyn, Stannis, Gendry, Davos, Bronn or Tywin.

THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN

The Fool: Bran Stark

Not Tyrion. At the beginning of the story, after his fall, Bran went on an exciting but dangerous journey of both body and soul to become the Three-Eyed Raven. It even culminated in him being King. That is The Fool’s Journey completed.

The Magician: Tyrion Lannister

Not Littlefinger. Only when reversed is The Magician a trickster. Upright, he uses the power of his mind to manifest good things not only for himself but for others. That is exactly what Tyrion tried and sometimes succeeded to do.

The High Priestess: Melisandre

The author got that one right, thank Gandalf. Mel made wrong interpretations of her visions, but redeemed herself at the last minute. We watched her grow from a flawed oracle to The High Priestess.

The Empress: Dany?

Fine. But Dany only tried to embody The Empress energy. Not only did she become the ultimate villain by Season 8, she also could not have kids, and The Empress is all about virtue and fertility. But since there is really no one else… fine.

The Emperor: Jon?

Okay. There is just no other candidate. The Emperor, though, is the strongest, most stable figure in tarot, and yet Jon’s fans always feared for his life throughout the show. One time our fears were even realized when his “friends” stabbed him to death.

The Hierophant: Maester Aemon

Not Varys. The Hierophant is a wise and benevolent keeper of traditions. I would have accepted The High Septon, even though he embodied The Hierophant reversed, not upright. But Varys? Really? He is neither spiritual nor traditional. Unless not having balls is really in these days.

The Lovers: Jon and Ygritte

The obvious choice. They were each other’s first and true love. Sorry, Jonerys shippers, but even before your boi killed your mama, Jon cared more about his siblings than about her.

The Chariot: Loras Tyrell

Not Drogon. Tarot’s Chariot refers to the driver, not the vehicle. This archetype is about youthful success… victory you tasted before the Wheel of Fortune turned everything upside down. It is Loras Tyrell being pretty and winning at tournaments before life forced him to grow up.

Strength: Jaime Lannister

Not Brienne. The Strength card is all about taming the lion inside you. Which is exactly what Jaime did. He rose above his baser instincts (of pushing children out of windows) and became a true knight in shining armor. Brienne had issues and insecurities, sure, but she never had to fight such darkness.

The Hermit: Jaqen H’ghar

Not Bran. Being a virgin does not make you The Hermit. This guy is someone wise and calm. Someone who has mastered the mysterious arts (like how to change faces). Plus, Bran has always had villainous tendencies, yet The Hermit has pure intentions. Sure, Jaqen kills people. But he views death as a gift.

Wheel of Fortune: A wheel?

Alright. I mean, what are you gonna do? It’s a wheel.

Justice: Stannis Baratheon

Not Ned Stark. Ned was powerless in the face of injustice, so how can he possibly embody this card? Stannis’ motivations, on the other hand, have always been based on justice. He killed his brother and his daughter, yes, but in his heart of hearts, he believed it was for the greater good. Also, the story of Davos’ fingers literally reeks of justice.

The Hanged Man: Ned Stark

Not the flayed man of House Bolton. Any man the Boltons flayed must have died screaming. The Hanged Man, though, is someone who makes a sacrifice very willingly, like Ned.

Death: Arya Stark

Well, she does make people dead.

Temperance: Samwell Tarly?

Okay, sure. Sam was a coward, but then he tempered his fear with courage and intelligence, so it works.

The Devil: Daenerys Targaryen

Not Ramsay Bolton. The Devil in tarot is not evil. Not really. The Devil is someone who lets his obsessions and addictions take over, which is what Dany did when she decided she was going to break the wheel by letting it run over a gazillion innocent people, children included.

The Tower: Bran falling from the tower

Not a puppy looking up at a tower. The Tower is sudden destruction. A farewell to everything one holds dear. Bran was a great climber and a potentially great knight who, after his Tower moment, could not even walk anymore.

The Star: Sansa Stark

Good choice. In the earlier seasons, Sansa embodied passive Star energy, when she did nothing but hope for someone to save her. Later on, she showcased active Star energy, when she began to save herself.

The Moon: Littlefinger by the Moon Door

Not just the Moon Door. The Moon is about secrets, deception and illusions; and what was Petyr Baelish the whole time if not all those things?

The Sun: Bran and Arya in Episode 1

Not another dragon. The main meaning of The Sun is pure, untainted joy. The kind that only children, yet untouched by cruelty and suffering, plus the truly resilient of us, are capable of feeling.

Judgement: The Night King

Before Arya kicked his butt, his arrival really did feel like Judgement Day, so okay.

The World: Margaery/Olenna Tyrell

Not the map of Westeros. The World in tarot is about accomplishment and the celebration of it. It is literally having the world at your feet. Margaery had many such moments, and Olenna must have had an infinite number. I am certain she even felt The World energy at the time of her epic death.

When designing a tarot deck, one has to be an expert in both tarot and the chosen theme. These cards were drawn beautifully, and the guidebook was written eloquently. But to a true fan of Game of Thrones like myself, it is obvious that the character selection is Grade A shit.

#Tarot #Tarot decks #Tarot tips #Witch tips #Witchblr #Divination #servantofthefates #Game of Thrones #All About Tarot

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