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violethowler · 4 years

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Death and Separation: Emerging Trends in Pop Culture Franchises

Warning: The following essay contains ending and character death spoilers for Voltron: Legendary Defender, How To Train Your Dragon: The Hidden World, Game of Thrones, and everything released under the Disney umbrella since January 2017. That includes Marvel, Star Wars, and vanilla Disney movies, both animated and live action.

I’ve noticed a pattern in the last couple of years of media consumption.

Since 2017, there has been a string of major releases by major companies or networks that featured story decisions that proved controversial with audiences. Now, such things on their own aren’t really a big deal because for the most part there’s always going to be some fans who aren’t satisfied with how a story turned out, regardless of their reasons.

But what I’m noticing is that there is a pattern to which elements fans are criticizing and why.

As I became aware of this trend I started looking back at media released in the last few years and noticing that many of these stories were featuring the same plot elements, whether they worked for the story or not:

One common point I noticed is how many of these franchises have taken morally complicated characters that were popular with audiences, and permanently killed them off in ways which a lot of people have found narratively unsatisfying:

In Star Wars: Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker, Ben Solo manages to achieve his redemption and turn back to the light after all prior supplementary material showed how Snoke preyed on his feelings of abandonment to groom him into joining the dark side. After being redeemed, his contribution to the story’s climax is being thrown into a pit, where he stays until after Palpatineis defeated, and upon climbing out finds the girl he loves dead. Ben then uses the force to heal Rey and restore her to life, only to immediately kick the bucket himself, after which point the narrative ceases to acknowledge him in any way.

Loki and his brother Thor reconcile at the end of 2017’s Thor: Ragnarok, only for the film’s post credits scene to herald their encounter with Loki’s former “employer” Thanos. The next time audiences see Loki in the opening minutes of Avengers: Infinity War, he’s strangled to death on-screen by Thanos following a failed assassination attempt before the film’s title card has even appeared. Despite theories that he had faked his death and would return in Avengers: Endgame, the only versions of Loki to appear in the finale of the Infinity Saga are past versions from alternate timelines, with only the characters dusted during Infinity War being brought back to life.

Gamora escapes from her abusive father figure Thanos in the first Guardians of the Galaxy movie and spends subsequent films building a life for herself outside of Thanos’ toxic influence, with the sequel focusing on her repairing her relationship with her sister Nebula. After being captured by Thanos and forced to bring him to the Soul Stone, Thanos flings her off a cliff to her death when he learns that obtaining the Soul Stone will require him to sacrifice someone he loves, and awakens in a pool of water with the stone in his hand. Despite theories she would be brought back to life in Avengers: Endgame, but like Loki, the only versions of Gamora to appear were from alternate timelines that lacked the dead version’s character development.

Black Widow’s defining character trait across the Infinity Saga has been her desire to eliminate “the red in her ledger” to atone for the things she did when the Red Room had raised her to be an assassin. In Avengers: Endgame, Black Widow sacrifices herself to obtain the Soul Stone in the past to give her close friend Clint Barton a second chance to come back from the brutal path of vengeance the death of his family had set him on, in the same way that he had given her a second chance to build a better life for herself when they first met.

In Voltron: Legendary Defender’s third season, Prince Lotor is introduced as a morally ambiguous figure with unclear motives. When forced on the run by his tyrannical father, he forms an alliance with the Paladins of Voltron and eventually develops a romance with Princess Allura. In the sixth season, Lotor is accused of mass murder of the survivors of Allura’s destroyed planet and their alliance falls apart. Lotor insists that his intentions for peace are genuine, but his efforts to explain himself fall on deaf ears, and after a battle, is left for dead in the Quintessence Field. The second episode of the final seasons fills in the details of his abusive childhood while showing that despite what he’d suffered, he was genuine in his desire for peace. Seasons 6 through 8 are sprinkled with hints that Lotor was innocent of the crimes he was accused of, but despite Season 8 Episode 6 Genesis depicting him being still alive after four years in the Quintessence Field, the audience is treated to an image of his melted corpse four episodes later, while his abusive mother searches alternate realities for a better version of him.

The first seven seasons of Game of Thrones depict Daenerys Targaryen as someone from an abusive family who was nevertheless determined to rise above her turbulent upbringing and make the world a better place. Over the course of the eighth and final season, her new allies disrespect her, her lover repeatedly betrays her trust, and her advisers not only question her mental stability but immediately attempt to undermine her campaign as soon as a male heir to the throne from her bloodline is presented to them. When her trusted confidant is murdered in the penultimate episode, she snaps and burns large swaths of the capitol to the ground with dragon fire. In the series finale, her remaining advisers convince her lover to kill her for the good of the realm, and her destructive rage is presented as who she always was.

In the narrative of these characters’ stories, some of these fit with the themes of that character’s story arc. Black Widow sacrificing herself makes sense because of the symmetry with what we know of her backstory. Clint Barton gave her a second chance and guided her back from the dark path she was on when they first met, and in Avengers: Endgame, she returns the favor. Her death, while upsetting to many fans for different reasons, fits within the context of her personal narrative arc from across the last decade of Marvel movies.

While Daenerys turning into a Mad Queen like her father would still be disappointing to fans hoping to see her disprove the “madness is in the blood” ideas about her family, it wouldn’t have come entirely out of nowhere. The hints that she had the potential to go down that path were there, even if many hoped it would only remain potential. One of the biggest issues is how Season 8 portrayed her descent into madness. Her cruelty towards King’s Landing is treated not as the rage of someone who has been pushed too far, but that this is who she always was.

Meanwhile Ben Solo’s death came suddenly and abruptly after repeated narrative fakeouts that he came back from. The previous films, novels, and comics had built him up as a victim of abuse and set up audiences to anticipate him breaking free of the Dark Side and finding a happy ending, likely while working to atone for his actions as Kylo Ren. But despite his actor having been promised that Ben Solo’s story would not end the same way that Darth Vader’s did, that was exactly what happened: with the redeemed villain dying to save a person they loved.

The context may differ, but there is a visible pattern of major genre franchises in the last year taking this type of complicated character and either killing them off when they’re finally in a good place mentally and emotionally, or in the case of Lotor and Daenerys, striping away their happiness to force them into the role of a one-dimensional tyrant and then killing them off. Lotor’s case is even more egregious because there were unanswered questions and inconsistencies surrounding his alleged crimes that after his death were never explained.

While I doubt the creators of any of these titles set out to intentionally hurt people who identified with these characters, their narrative choices still send very damaging messages.

These character’s backstories involve them either intentionally or unintentionally set up to fail by the people around them. Where most characters begin with a blank slate, theirs was already written in with expectations, pressure, violence, condemnation, control, manipulation, and/or outright subjugation. Fans young and old find them relatable because of similar rough pasts or trauma, often because or in spite of their grey moral compasses. This type of character resonates with audiences because they represent what it means to be human - to struggle, to make mistakes, and to have the ability to atone for them in the end.

Except in recent stories they don’t ever get that chance. Seeing Ben Solo and Lotor and Daenerys and Loki denied a chance at a happy ending tells people who identify with them that they will never find happiness. That their struggle toward the light is doomed to fail and will only end in death.

And that isn’t the only divisive trend that’s been observed in recent years. Since 2018, there have been sequels and series finales where the characters whose bond was the core of the story go their separate ways either after the conflict has been resolved or as the means to resolve the conflict:

In the series finale of Star Wars: Rebels, audience viewpoint character Ezra Bridger forces Grand Admiral Thrawn’s Star Destroyer fleet into hyperspace to protect the capital city of his planet Lothal from orbital bombardment. This separates him from his Found Family, and due to their commitments to the rebellion it isn’t until several years later that they set out to find him and bring him home.

During the course of Ralph Breaks the Internet: Wreck-it Ralph 2, Vanellope von Schweetz becomes enamored with the virtual world of the internet, having grown tired of the routine of her life in the arcade in the five years since the original movie. Ralph’s desire for life to stay the same and his insecurities over losing his best friend drive the plot of the movie, and the conflict is resolved when Ralph learns to let go of his insecurities and respect Vanellope’s wishes. Ralph returns to the arcade while Vanellope remains on the internet, though they stay in touch via video chat.

The series finale of Voltron: Legendary Defender depicts the surviving paladins going their separate ways after the war ends, only meeting up once a year for a memorial dinner to honor Allura’s sacrifice. Lance is depicted with the markings of Allura’s people branded on his face, grieving her as he spends his days working on his family’s farm. Keith returns to the stars to restructure the Blade of Marmora into a peacetime organization. Hunk becomes a galactic chef, while Pidge returns to Earth to build robots at the Garrison. A year after the series, Shiro retires from the job he loves and marries one of the men on the bridge crew for the Atlas.

In order to protect the dragons of Berk from Grimmel the dragon hunter, Hiccup must send Toothless away so that the Night Fury can lead the Berkian dragons to the safety of the Hidden World. Year later Hiccan and Astrid take their children to the entrance of the Hidden World where they reunite with their dragon friends and their children.

In order to defeat Thanos and his army, Iron Man uses the Infinity Stones to snap Thanos’ legions out of existence at the cost of his own life. Following Tony’s funeral, Captain America returns the Stones to their original timeline before settling down in an alternate timeline to live a peaceful life with Peggy Carter in the 1940s. After reaching old age, Steve returns to his original timeline and passes the mantle of Captain America on to Sam Wilson along with the repaired shield. Thor abdicates the throne of New Asgard to Valkyrie before setting off to the stars with the Guardians of the Galaxy. Hawkeye returns to the quiet farm life with his wife and children, and the remaining heroes all go their separate ways.

After the death of Daenerys in the series finale of Game of Thrones, the Westerosi nobility decided to form an elected monarchy, choosing Bran Stark as the next king of the Seven Kingdoms. Sansa returns to Winterfell, where she becomes Queen of the North, while Jon Snow is “exiled” beyond the wall, and Arya sets sail to explore lands west of Westeros.

In Toy Story 4, Woody is feeling pushed to the side as Bonny plays with him less than she does the other toys. After getting lost on a road trip, Woody is reunited with his lost love, Bo Peep, who has been living alone scavenging from humans rather than being played with by a single child. After rescuing Bonnie’s new toy Forky, Woody and Bo race to get everyone back to the RV before Bonny’s family leaves. Before boarding the RV, Woody ultimately decides to stay with Bo, and he parts ways with the rest of Andy’s toys as the film ends.

After the previous film was about Maleficent becoming a surrogate mother figure to Aurora, the sequel, Maleficent: Mistress of Evil, is about Maleficent learning to let her daughter grow up and leave the nest. After Queen Ingrid’s crusade against the fairies is thwarted, Maleficent gives her blessing for Aurora’s marriage to Phillip and lets her adopted daughter go. Maleficent returns to the Moors with the promise that she will return when Aurora and Phillip have a child of their own.

In the course of uncovering and making amends for their bigoted grandfather’s actions against the Northuldra people, Elsa and Anna learn that the rumored fifth spirit that bridges the mortal and the supernatural is actually them and their bond. After breaking the curse on the Enchanted Forest, Elsa abdicated her throne and remains in the forest to continue exploring the full extent of her powers while Anna takes the throne. Thanks to the magic of the other elemental spirits, the sisters remain in constant contact, with Elsa returning to Arendelle for regular visits.

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker establishes that Ben Solo and Rey are a dyad in the Force - literal soulmates. At the end of the movie, Rey sacrifices her life to destroy Palpatine, and after climbing up from the pit he was tossed into, Ben uses the Force to heal Rey’s wounds and bring her back to life, at which point he immediately dies. After a victory celebration with the Resistance, Rey travels to Tatooine and is last seen burying Luke and Leia’s lightsabers in the sands outside the farm where Luke grew up.

As with the trend of killing off morally complicated characters, some of these examples work within the context of the film.

Motherhood was an important element of Maleficent’s arc across the two live action films, and learning to let her daughter leave the nest is a classic lesson in a parental figure’s character arc.

Hiccup and Toothless parting ways fits with the How To Train Your Dragon series’ focus on protecting the dragons and the animal conservation message that comes with that.

Ezra being separated from his found family at the end of Rebels was a way to maintain Luke Skywalker’s status as the only Jedi working for the rebellion in the original movies without permanently killing Ezra off, and the show’s writers left the door open for a potential sequel focused on Sabine following his trail to bring him home.

Other examples, however, do not align with the themes of their respective franchises.

Game of Thrones spent several seasons focusing on the surviving Stark children as they find their way back to each other. Sending them all in different directions at the end feels disappointing and pointless after they had finally been reunited in the previous season.

The Paladins of Voltron finding their own careers after the war that take them to different parts of the galaxy but still making the effort to consistently stay in contact makes sense in theory, but with the death of Allura it comes across as if her passing broke the team apart.

While the original Avengers going their separate ways to let a new generation of heroes step into the limelight seems like an organic conclusion to the Infinity Saga, Captain America’s ending in particular feels like a regression. His character arc across his previous solo films has been about moving forward, and Endgame concludes with him literally going backward.

It’s been common for fan complaints over these story elements to be directed mainly at the people directly responsible for making each project - the showrunners, the movie directors, the script writers…… But I couldn’t help but notice just how many of these examples for both trends fell under the Disney umbrella.

And then I remembered that Infinity War, Endgame, and The Rise of Skywalker all had reshoots done at some point in the production process.

It really makes me wonder how much of these disliked story decisions were really the individual directors’ and showrunners’ decisions and how much were mandated by someone higher up the ladder. And I can’t help but notice the demographics of the people in charge of these companies and the people affected by them.

The demographics of fans that enjoy morally complicated characters and want them to have a happy ending, that enjoy stories where the the characters who bonded over the course of the story stay together after their mutual goal is achieved, are from what I’ve observed predominantly made up of women, LGBTQ+ people, disabled people, nonwhite people, and people with mental illnesses.

And most of the people in charge of these story decisions are cis, straight, neurotypipcal, able-bodied white men. The CEO of Disney... The showrunners of Game of Thrones….. Voltron’s a little more complicated because while Dreamworks made the show they didn’t own the franchise, but the Voltron IP owner is a straight white male.

These stories are controlled by straight white men, and the audiences that have the biggest negative reactions to these story decisions are women, LGBTQ+ people, and POC.

Companies may talk about having more diversity on camera and behind the camera, but the people at the top of the corporate hierarchy - the ones with the money and therefore the ultimate control over what gets released to the public - are for the most part the same demographic as they've always been.

And all of these show finales and movies have been released within the last four years, as fandom spaces and American public discourse in general have become increasingly polarized into a black and white mentality with no room for nuance. Where someone can only be either a perfect ally or an offensive oppressor. This trend in killing off morally complicated characters in ways that don’t always work for their character arc has also coincided with the rise of fandom’s pearl clutching over moral purity and whether a villain or anti villain “deserves” a redemption arc.

Your first instinct will probably be to dismiss what I’m suggesting, insisting that these are just shows and movies and that they don’t matter. That it’s Not That DeepTM. But more often than not the media we consume is a reflection of the world around us. And we are seeing a pattern that as fandom becomes increasingly obsessed with purity and enforces a “one strike and you’re a monster” mentality, the major franchises of pop culture are producing stories where people who aren’t clear-cut Pure Good Heroes or Pure Evil Villains die.

Also, dismissing people’s thoughts about the social messages of a movie or show, insisting that we’re wrong for saying that something doesn’t fit with the story so far, is part of the problem. Having critics and other fans praising the stories we feel hurt by and dismissing our criticisms as, for example, whiny shippers mad that our favorite pairings didn’t happen, has a very stifling, damaging effect. It tells us over and over again that this is the way that stories are supposed to be, and that there is something weird, broken, wrong with us for not being satisfied with stories that break up the Found Family or kill off your morally messed up fave regardless of whether it actually makes sense for the story.

It leaves us isolated and alienated from wider fandom discussions because we’re told it again and again until we internalize it that we’re in the wrong. That people just don’t want to make the kinds of stories we want to see. That we’re paranoid for suspecting that there is a pattern when we see this happen over and over. But it’s clear from the way that some creators have acted - going from excitedly promoting their work to complete silence after the initial disappointment over the finale - that there are creators who want to tell those kinds of stories, but they are being silenced. They are being forced to change the stories they wanted to tell because someone in charge didn’t like that kind of story, and because of their NDAs are forced to either keep silent, or lie and take credit for decisions that weren’t theirs.

It’s easy to dismiss these story decisions as a coincidence. To believe that all of these creators made similar decisions on their own. That they just fucked up a beautiful story on their own with no intervention from someone higher up the corporate ladder. It’s a comforting option. It makes us feel like our criticisms have an impact. Because the alternative? That creators can and have been forced to change their stories because the person at the top doesn’t think that it’ll sell well if it doesn’t cater to the demographic they consider most important? That’s terrifying.

#media analysis #meta #trends I'm seeing in popular franchises

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writingstruggles · 4 years

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Ben Solo/Kylo Ren: a character analysis

OK, first things first: THIS ISN’T A STAN OR ANTI POST. This is a character study, and if you can’t handle this character getting impartial concrit, just don’t read. If, however, you don’t agree with some of the points I’m going to make and want to have a healthy discussion about it, then I’m all ears. I don’t think my opinion is the only valid one, so feel free to try and change my mind.

And second things second: I tried so hard to love the sequel trilogy, but when it became clear after TROS that the studio had no plan other than making money, it became very difficult. I’m aware that the main problem for all the characters is the lack of general planing in this whole mess of trilogy, so keep this always in mind while reading this post: the first problem of this character was that the studio didn’t even know what to do with him.

1. Does Ben Solo becoming Kylo Ren make sense?

I checked the comics to get his background better. He had a happy childhood traveling a lot with Han and Leia, but when she discovered about the First Order, she sent him to train with Luke while Han and Chewie ran undercover missions for her. This is important: up to this point, he had a good relationship with his family, even if he was already being pulled by the dark side of the Force. It was during his adolescence that he started to be really seduced by Snoke, hearing the voice he thought belonged to Darth Vader. After the Luke incident, he did explode the cabin and thought he had killed his uncle, but he was not the one who killed all the other students and destroyed the temple: that was Snoke’s thing. He did kill some of his fellow Jedi apprentices later on, though. So, his turning points were Luke’s treason and Snoke’s coordinated abduction. And I would like to point out: the Sith training involves torture and brainwashing, so the first wrong impression I would like to correct about this character is that he was not simply a dick and revolted teen who ran away to join a cult.

BUT, there are some huge problems here. The first one is that when you watch the movies, you don’t learn anything about that aside from Luke’s part. In the way he’s presented in TFA, he’s Leia and Han’s son who betrayed his family, destroyed his uncles’ dream and joined the dark side for no reason. OF COURSE half of the audience wouldn’t like him. That wouldn’t be a problem if they just wanted him to be a villain like Darth Vader was, but it’s very clear that there was a plan (at least for one director) to make him a supposedly redeemable character. And how can we sympathize with his character like that? Even after we get to know what Luke almost did, the next question is simple: ok, so why he didn’t go back to Han and Leia?

And here is the second huge problem: we learned that after Ben leaves Yavin IV, Luke vanished, and Han and Leia broke up and went back to smuggling/leading a rebellion. And I can’t stress this enough, this doesn’t make any sense. The sequel trilogy killed Luke, Han, and Leia’s characters. These three characters that we have known for years would never, ever, had abandoned Ben Solo. Leia F*cking Organa and Han shot-first Solo would have brought their son back or die trying. Luke Skywalker is not a coward, he wouldn’t go into hiding and abandoned his only sister to clean up his mess during another war, let alone close himself to the Force, knowing full well he wouldn’t be able to feel if she was in danger. Just remember Han risking his life to save Luke in Hoth; or Leia leaving the rebellion to rescue Han from Jabba; or Luke straight-up disobeying ghost Obi-Wan and ghost Yoda to save Han and Leia, even if that costed the war. They were older and different, for sure, but we are talking about the quintessential things, the things that make these beloved characters themselves.

(THIS ^^. This right here is the spirit of Star Wars)

So no, in the way it was done in the movies, Ben Solo becoming Kylo Ren doesn’t make sense to the audience, and that’s a huge problem. A friend of mine suggested once that instead of being a rip-off of ANH, TFA should have been a movie about the beginning of the First Order (because after we defeat the Empire on episode VI, episode VII starting with ANOTHER all-powerful evil government already dominating the galaxy and exploding planets just throws away all the previous movies’ efforts) and about how Ben Solo becomes Kylo Ren. Just imagine if Rey, Finn and Poe had interacted with Ben Solo before he becomes evil: the stakes would have been so much higher, and it could have been well done. It would have made this character more human and likable.

2. Kylo Ren’s motivations: what does he want?

If the OT was about hope, I think we can agree that the ST’s themes are legacy and belonging. Having their protagonists, Rey and Ben/Kylo representing two apposite sides of those things was one of the best ideas for the new saga. Rey looks for belonging in the past she doesn’t know, while Kylo wants to abandon Ben Solo’s past and find his place in his future as Kylo Ren.

In that sense, his character arc was somehow solid. In TFA, it’s clear he’s still struggling with the dark side and feels the temptation of the light: he loses control easily, and he’s not doing anything unless Snoke orders him to. Ok, but why? Why is he clinging to Darth Vader’s ideals and staying in the sith path? Basically because he thinks it’s too late, and he has no other options. Which brings us back to the problem with Han and Leia: his parents didn’t go after him, they chose to go back to their old lives – of course he would think there’s no going back for him now. “But he is an adult man and could make his own decisions.” It’s a fair point, but again: sith training corrupts you and even if he had escaped, the only thing that would happen would be Snoke finding him again. It’s kinda like leaving an addiction: you supposedly can do it by yourself, but it is so much easier if you have help. Not a simple promise or offer, but actual, constant, and present help. I can not stress this enough, but I insist that one of the main problems with the sequel trilogy was not explaining in a satisfactory way HOW and WHY he turned to the dark side and stayed there.

3. Han Solo

Okay, I will admit: maybe my opinion on this specific topic is biased, because Han Solo is my favorite SW character. You may call me out as a fangirl if you don’t agree, but my point is: making Kylo Ren kill Han Solo was a bad idea. They basically killed the character for half of the audience, with zero chance of redemption.

It’s because it’s fratricide. Unless your father is Satan, the Emperor, or someone as equally villainous, fratricide is just that bad. It’s not easy to redeem a character who commits murder, but one that kills his own father? Who happens to be one of the good guys? And one of the most iconic and beloved characters in the franchise? There were other options to give Kylo Ren a tipping point, a conflicted moment that didn’t involve killing Han Solo. But they did, and he killed him. And now he’s no longer a villain we can sympathize with: now we think he’s a monster.

4. His interactions with Rey in TLJ

(I’m not wearing shipper goggles for this. I don’t even own shipper goggles when we are talking about Star Wars.)

Kylo Ren is conflicted after killing Han Solo, (and I will make a small pause here to reinforce how good Adam Driver’s acting was. He’s the only responsible for all the likable parts of Kylo Ren, especially in this movie). Kylo is once again unstable and Snoke is displeased with him, and for a moment we think he finally turned completely to the dark side, until he pauses before shooting Leia’s ship.

The force bond was the most interesting part of the movie. I don’t agree that he used it to manipulate Rey: if anything, he was completely harsh and blunt and kind of a dick to her, but he didn’t lie. He told her things how he saw it, with so much conviction that she started to see his side of the story. And since she was probably the first person in years that actually listened to him, his decision of murdering Snoke and inviting her to join the dark side makes very much sense.

We are talking about motivations and his are simple: let the past die, forge a new path. When he kills Snoke and no longer has a master, he only has one option: to become the master. That’s why he takes over the FO, and wants Rey to be his apprentice. Does the character suffer from sith-tunnel-vision? Definitely. But it makes sense. His decision-making is not overly complicated: he feels alone, and he wants a purpose: he decides that the solution for both is Rey joining him in the dark side. When she refuses, he still has one purpose: the FO.

This is, however, the point where he turns his back to the light completely: on Crait, he orders the FO to explode the Rebel Base and kill everyone, knowing full well his mother was in there. He orders them to exploded the Falcon out of the sky, once again knowing that Chewie and Rey are on board. When facing Luke, he repeats that he will kill Rey and the rebels. His transition from conflicted sith apprentice to the new villain of the franchise was actually well done.

And exactly because of that, the next topic pisses me off so much.

5. The continuity problem between episodes VIII and IX

Introducing Palpatine here was bad for so many reasons: backtracking Rey’s arc, making us think about Palps’ sex life, insisting on beating a literal dead horse when there were new things to explore, etc etc. And it was also bad for Kylo Ren’ arc. As I said before, the way they finished episode VIII, everything pointed to Kylo becoming the final evil Rey would have to face, and that would have been awesome. We didn’t need Palps, or ANOTHER all-powerful evil army ready to conquer the galaxy with exploding-planets-tech (seriously, is Alderaan a joke to you, Disn*y?).

But, in the third movie, they went back and decided they didn’t want Kylo Ren to be the ultimate villain anymore. They wanted him to be redeemed. And that’s not bad per se, but an actual redemption arc needs to be planned, and I think we can all agree, there was no planning in the sequels. And again, FRATRICIDE. So they introduced an old, more powerful evil to make Kylo Ren less evil and less of a threat in comparison. And evil so definitive, and with such a bullshit connection to Rey, that it makes Kylo reconsider his previous promises of killing the last jedi and going back to the plan of making her turn.

And so, his character spends the movie going after Rey, to tell her the bullshit truth about her parents, to convince her to join him. At least his arc is still somehow solid, because once he’s decided on his path, he doesn’t lose control like in the previous movies, and his body language is more firm and lethal. Which, honestly, thanks Adam Driver, he knew the character way better than the director at this point.

He finally comes back to the light when Leia dies. Although it was rushed, I agree that, at that point, it was literally the only thing that could have made him turn. Rey reminding him that he wouldn’t be alone if he hadn’t chosen the dark side helped, too. It was clear that the moment with Han Solo was supposed to be with Leia, but I’m really glad Harrison Ford agreed to come back to fill in the role for his old friend.

6. Ben Solo

Okay, there’s so much to unpack here. When Ben Solo finally comes out to play, it’s very good. We can finally see some things that explain Kylo Ren better – it’s so obvious how awkward he was in his own body trying to be an evil sith lord when he is clearly a natural disaster. He still suffers from tunnel vision, but at least now it’s Skywalker-do-or-die tunnel vision. It’s like a weight was lifted from his shoulders, and the way his actions scream Han Solo makes me, once again, wish the first movie had been about him, and not the whole “find a map/ Star Killer base was ANOTHER ridiculous idea / I know R2’s alignment is chaotic bastard but COME ON”.

Star Wars has a notorious story with pulling Force powers out of nowhere, and I’m not going to pretend to be an expert in SW lore, so I won’t complain about the dyad thing (and the weird stuff with the light sabers). I honestly liked the concept. There’s a lot I have to say about the final battle against Palpatine, but I think it would fit better in a future character study about Rey (God, that’s going to be another long ass post). I just want to add that after Luke insisted on her taking both light sabers to Exegol, and after all the crazy stuff Ben did to get to her, they should have, you know, actually fought side by side against 85% dead Palpatine? Aren’t these two idiots supposed to be stronger than that?? I’m not complaining about Rey bringing him down “alone” since she is the protagonist yada yada, I just wished that Ben had done something, instead of being thrown into a hole.

(Palps did that out of spite because of his grandfather? I bet he did.)

I won’t say I didn’t cry hearing the voices of the past jedi talking to Rey, because I definitely did. If anything, it was great to see so many beloved actors getting a chance to honor such iconic characters. But are you freaking shitting on us? Where were ANY of those assholes when Luke, Leia and Ben needed them, like, ten years ago?? “Well, force ghosts should not be used as ex machinas, and they don’t see the future” Tell that to episodes IV, V and VI. Anakin, Obi Wan and Yoda can show up for Vader weird funeral/party with ewoks but they can’t send a jedi signal for the Skywalkers to warn them about Sith bullshit about to happen? “They were probably ahead in the world the comes next and they didn’t have a way to come back, they just talked to Rey because Exegol is a Force nexus and-” And so is Ach-To. And so is Yavin IV. And so is Dagoba (Yes, Snoke sent Ben there for training). Look, I have no problems with Force Ghosts, I love them bastards. I’m just so freaking mad with the lack of coherence in this trilogy. If they did not talk to the Skywalkers – and I’m sure at least Luke and Ben asked Obi Wan/Anakin to show themselves A LOT – they should not have talked to Rey. It was a crowd please moment, for sure, but it was another gigantic middle finger to Ben Solo (before he becomes Kylo Ren).

And then Rey died, and Ben brings her back. I know how many funny jokes are going around in the fandom about how resurrecting Qui-Gon or Padme would have saved the galaxy so much trouble, but again, I’m okay with that. It was previously established that since they were a dyad, they had this living Force between them (although it was rushed in the final like everything else). And it does make sense Ben doing that: he had just come back to the light, and his parents were both dead. Han and Leia were gone because of him, the last time he saw Chewie was as his captor, and before that, he got shot by him, etc, you get the idea. He had nothing else, only this: the chance to make it right by a person that genuinely cared for him. Exchanging his life for Rey’s was nothing: he knew that his family would be waiting for him in the world that comes after.

So, did I like the Bendemption? It. Was. Not. A. Redemption. It was the right choice, and it made things right between him and Rey, because she forgave him for everything. But that’s it. He did not face the consequence of any of his previous actions. “But he died for her!” And we just established that it was not a difficult choice, considering that he had literally no reasons to stay alive if Rey was dead. If you want to see an actual redemption arc, go watch Avatar the Legend of Aang.

And finally, the kiss and the death. Okay, I know I’m digging my own grave by addressing that, but my mama raised no coward. Here it goes: it was fan service, pure and simple. It’s there to make part of the fanbase happy. Good for you, reylos, but to us, not shippers, it came out of nowhere. And I’m not questioning if they had feelings for each other or not: I’m talking about pacing and characterization. I’m not 100% convinced that Rey, as a character, as she was presented to us so far, would have done that. It felt out of place, and it broke the immersion of the scene. I was emotionally invested on what was going on, I was happy to see Ben smiling at her and everything, but then suddenly they were sucking faces and the “FAN SERVICE” alarm was so loud in my mind that I immediately lost interest. If they wanted that in the movie so much, there was probably a better way to do that.

It makes sense that Ben had to die to bring Rey back: one life for another and everything. I still think that, story-wise, it would have been better if none of them had died a ridiculous death, and Ben had faced the consequences of his actions as Kylo Ren, but okay, moving on. The main problem here is what happens after he dies: nothing. Absolute-effing-nothing. He dies, he disappears – which, again, I won’t question because Leia was involved and Skywalkers do whatever they want with the Force and I’m no expert – but that’s it. Rey, the same Rey that had just jumped his bones fifteen seconds earlier, doesn’t even mourn him. She doesn’t cry, she doesn’t do anything for him in the end, she just goes to Tattooine because it makes sense to the Skywalker saga to end where it started. She sees more of those Force Ghosts who never appear when they freaking should and that’s it.

Why is it bad? Well, first, like it or not, Ben Solo/Kylo Ren was one of the main characters and he deserved an actual final. Finn and Poe too, but those are long posts for another day. And second, it makes the fan-service in that kiss scene more evident. You can’t have the girl kiss him and in the next scene act like it didn’t matter at all. “Ok, then it was a thank-you kiss and there were no real feelings of loved involved”. But that makes it worse, it would be even more completely out of character for Rey – who avoids physical contact with people on the regular – to just kiss someone as a thank-you. Do you see how the math does not compute? If she had feelings for him, and therefore kissed him, she should have mourned him. If anything, she should at least miss her other part of the dyad thing. And if she didn’t mourn him because she didn’t have actual feelings, then she should not have kissed him. A little consistency, it’s all I’m asking.

7. Conclusions (aka tl;dr)

He was a somehow consistent character, but the lack of plot for the sequels was a huge problem. If the trilogy had been about Ben Solo becomes Kylo Ren – Kylo Ren kills Snoke and becomes the real villain – Rey faces Kylo Ren and she either saves him or kills him, it would have been so much better than the mess the studio did.

His story in the comics is so much more complex than what it is shown in the movies, but what they did to Han, Leia and Luke was a crime.

It was clear that one director had a vision to give him a redemption, and the other to make him the ultimate villain.

Adam Driver did what he could to make this character solid and somehow likable, let’s thank him for that.

There was no reason to bring Palps back,

Rey’s actions in the final are contradictory,

He should have stayed alive to face the consequences of his actions,

and the studio is charged guilt for getting our hopes up just to crush them with their lack of interest in doing something descent for the fans.

But again, that’s just my analysis of this character. Feel free to disagree with me, I would love to see what other people think about Ben Solo/Kylo Ren.

#character study #ben solo #kylo ren #star wars the sequel trilogy #adam driver #bendemption #star wars #long post #I got mad halfway and you can tell #rey #han solo #I blame the studio #mostly

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ariainstars · 4 years

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What’s Missing in The Rise of Skywalker or What I Think Star Wars Needs in Order to Work…

This may be pure conjecture on my side… But there’s one thought that’s not letting me go these days.

We have shredded Episode IX to pieces by now and we all know its plot holes and massive problems with character development, coherence, morality etc.

But I’m realizing that there is something that Star Wars has always had at its center… and I believe that without it, it simply cannot work.

The Father Figure.

Remember, the central sentence (and one of the most iconic film scenes ever) is the infamous “No - I am your father.”

So let’s face the saga from this point of view.

The Phantom Menace is not a masterpiece of filmmaking, but a decent film, with an interesting story and a lot of intriguing characters. It works well as a solid introduction to the prequel trilogy.

At its heart we find Qui-Gon Jinn. Gentle, cunning, compassionate and rebellious, Qui-Gon is the ideal Jedi if there ever was one. To Anakin, the fatherless child, he is the first father figure he knows, the first person who is an advocate for him and pleads his cause; not that his mother wouldn’t, but she was powerless to do so. Qui-Gon also has the broad-shouldered, tall frame that will later become one of Darth Vader’s trademarks.

Attack of the Clones is one of the weakest, if not the weakest Star Wars film of all. And I can’t overlook the fact that there is no father figure at its center.

We get to know Jango Fett, Boba’s father, who is however not a main character: his presence is important for the course of the plot, but not the impact of his personality itself.

We also have an interesting insight in Anakin’s relationship with Obi-Wan. It takes only a few minutes for us to realize that these two are not on the best of terms: Obi-Wan is too immature and inexperienced for the task he has to shoulder, too strict in his adherence to the Jedi Code (possibly due to the other Jedi’s critical eye on them), and Anakin is more powerful than he is despite his youth. As a result, young Obi-Wan does not have much, if any, influence on the events of the story. He may be a good Jedi but as a father figure for young Anakin he is not suited at all.

Revenge of the Sith sees Palpatine taking over the rule as Anakin’s master: it is interesting that before this moment, he used to refer to the Anakin as “Son”, another way of subtly manipulating the young man who was in need of a father figure to look up to.

The film is excellently made and, very fittingly, the unraveling of a human tragedy. Palpatine is the most powerful and also most horrifying father figure imaginable, who offers Anakin enormous power to a terrible price: the loss of everything he ever was.

A New Hope is a very good film in many ways and for a lot of good reasons, not least due to the elderly Obi-Wan (Ben) Kenobi. He is the one who introduces Luke to his powers and explains him - and also us, the audience - the nature of the Force. Without him, we would be dealing with a good but not remarkable science fiction story. The element of magic is introduced by the Jedi who is a mentor to Luke, another young man who longs for a father figure in his life.

To put it mildly, The Empire Strikes Back rocks! I still think of it as the best Star Wars film ever made. It contains everything a film needs to be compelling even on seeing it again and again.

And who is at the core of it all? Darth Vader, the Dark Father, the Evil, Unknown, Malignant Father. Vader is at the height of his power in the film which from his point of view is the hunt for the son he thought dead and now wants to bring at his side at all costs. Vader is terrifyingly powerful throughout the film, he dominates every scene.

Not coincidentally, we see him in his meditation chamber once where he reminds of a king sitting on his throne.

Return of the Jedi is not bad per se but it is commonly (and in my opinion rightly) seen as the weakest of the original trilogy. Yes, I know, the Ewoks are annoying and in Jabba’s palace we already have too many Muppets - it doesn’t work when you want to make your film more child-friendly and at the same time to tell the culmination of a family drama.

But again, what I miss here is a central figure. We see Palpatine holding Vader’s leash, until he is at the last moment defeated by the father desperate to save his son. It is an act that costs him his life and makes Vader and his redemption heart and soul of the story.

But until that moment, we have Palpatine at the center of the plot. Thus, there are two father figures. And I can’t help but noticing that the fact is a little irritating in itself. Similarly to Attack of the Clones, Return of the Jedi seems to waver when it comes to deciding what it is about, what the actual, all-encompassing arc is.

The Force Awakens: Han is thirty years older now and a father figure himself - to a son who felt abandoned by him. Han dominates the key scene: his son is unhinged and conflicted and despite his power, he doesn’t have the events under control.

Han’s decision to give up his life to save his son’s soul is a last, desperate act born from love which parallels Vader’s. Even if at this moment we do not yet realize that he will succeed in the end, we are aware that something momentous has happened on the fatal bridge: an event that was built up for many years and will have enormous repercussions on everyone involved.

Not surprisingly, Han also felt like a father figure for Rey, the other protagonist of the sequels.

The Last Jedi sees an aged Luke Skywalker in the role of the wise old mentor which once was Obi-Wan’s. Though his attitude is not exactly fatherly, Luke is heart and soul of the story. His wisdom, his courage and also the admittance of his failure push the story onto its tragic but heroic ending.

The Rise of Skywalker is disappointing on many levels, but thinking about it again, there is again that certain something that I miss most.

Yes, the Father Figure.

Palpatine is but a creepy old shadow and is not even acknowledged as kin by Rey.

The central and most moving scene is, again, a meeting between Han and his son, finally reconciling.

For good measure

Rogue One is the story of Jyn’s father Galen, his plans for the Rebellion and her daughter living only to fulfill them. Though sad, it is a good and convincing story.

Solo is nice to watch but it does not work as well as Rogue One. My guess is that focuses too much on action and not enough on character development: the film does not make clear enough that Beckett is a father figure for Han, and that it is significant for his personal development to leave him and his mindset behind.

The Clone Wars has Anakin’s relationship with his padawan Ahsoka at the heart. Though from their age difference he is more like a big brother for her, differently to the other Jedi he is protective, respectful and listening with her. Anakin’s attitude proves over and over what a good father he would have been had he had the chance.

The Mandalorian works excellently and it has, again - need I say it? - a father-son relationship at its core. Despite his previous cut-throat demeanor, Dindjarin always makes his little protegee feel safe and lets him develop his powers in his own way and time. In return, the child is his way back to humanness.

This is the most heart-warming and perhaps until now most convincing father-child-relationship we have ever had in the entire Star Wars universe. Is the series so good for its action scenes? I’m not denying that. But that’s not what the story is about: it’s about what makes a good father, even if you are everything but a saint.

And that what is most bitter for me about The Rise of Skywalker.

Ben Solo did not get to be the father figure I was certain was his ultimate fate to be: he was Vader’s opposite in so many details, down to his facial figures. Darth Vader was a most impressive villain but a nightmarish father. Kylo Ren never was half as convincing as a villain, which to me made it logical to assume (also since we get to know Ben Solo as an emphatic, caring person) that he was meant to be a good father and his failure came from trying to be something he wasn’t meant to be in the first place.

Anakin had damned himself with the carnage of the Jedi padawans; and in The Last Jedi the Canto Bight children, one of which is Force-sensitive, had been introduced. By becoming the Good Father his grandfather never had the chance to be Ben would have found redemption and purpose. And Rey, having been abandoned herself, would have been an excellent mother figure. (Apart from that, I don’t doubt that Adam Driver could play the role of the affectionate, protective father hands-down.)

It is still a mystery to me why this obvious route was not taken by the filmmakers. Letting the last of the Skywalker blood die without having him fulfill his destiny was the bleakest route the story could take.

I don’t know what’s in the cards with Rian Johnson’s trilogy. But I haven’t given up hope for the saga to finally give us the happy, united family that I am positive always was meant to be at its core.

Tragedies and cautionary tales are well enough. But I believe that after all of the drama, we ought to be in for some joy and fun at last. 😊

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kalinara · 4 years

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It does occur to me there’s a reason that I prefer Hux’s not-quite-redemption arc over Kylo Ren’s in The Rise of Skywalker that I never really considered before.

I think a major component in a redemption arc that we don’t often consider is that the characters should have a clear reason, that makes sense to them, to stop being a total monster.

Now obviously, that reason doesn’t magically make them a good person. But it’s where the redemption arc gets its foot in the door.

Let’s take Darth Vader. If you look at Vader and Kylo on paper, they’re very similar. Their evil deeds are much the same. Their redemption moment follows the same general pattern. But to me, Vader’s worked and Kylo’s didn’t. And that seeming hypocrisy has bugged me a little. I dislike inconsistency. Especially in myself. So I’ve tried to put my finger on where I think the difference is.

And ultimately, I think the difference is in their REASON for turning.

With Vader, the reason is very clear: he wants to save his son.

This is a reason that fits with his character as it was developed in the previous movie. Let’s leave the Prequels off the table for a moment, because they hadn’t been made when Vader’s redemption happened. The Vader we see in a New Hope has no real interest in Luke beyond noting that he was Obi-Wan Kenobi’s student, and was strong in the Force. But in Empire Strikes Back, Vader is very different. He has become obsessed with Luke. He wants more than anything else for his son to join him so that they can strike back against the Empire. When we see him again in Return of the Jedi, he’s more subdued. He brings Luke to Palpatine, but he still appears to genuinely hope that Luke will turn rather than be destroyed. He actually seems to be upset about how things have turned out. As evil as he is, the one thing he does seem to care about (albeit in a twisted way) is Luke.

So it makes sense that, at the moment of truth, Darth Vader throws everything away to save his son.

With Kylo, the reasons aren’t as clear. Now, like Vader, he spent most of the Last Jedi trying to get Rey to turn to his side and help him defeat Snoke. But there isn’t the same sense of emotional involvement from Kylo Ren. He finds her and her power intriguing, but not enough to even hesitate when Rey tries to convince him to come back with her. And he thinks nothing of trying to shoot her out of the sky.

In the Rise of Skywalker, he keeps reaching out to her again. Like Vader to Luke. But it comes across as more manipulation than anything else. Still, MAYBE they could have made a workable redemption arc based on his feelings for Rey, because she’s the one he’s been focused on for two movies.

But they didn’t. There’s no indicator that Rey played any role in Kylo’s actual redemption. LEIA was the one to reach out to him. And it was a hallucination fo HAN that caused the actual moment of truth. Kylo’s motive for turning back had more to do with his parents than with Rey.

Which might have worked, if the movies had bothered to develop Kylo’s connection to his parents. But the only interaction that Kylo actually has with them is murdering Han in TFA and not firing at Leia in TLJ. (Something mitigated by the way he had the death weapons pointed at her base on Crait.) Now MAYBE if Carrie Fisher had lived, we would have seen more development between Kylo and Leia in TROS that would have made the redemption arc work. But without that, Kylo just seems very directionless as a character. WHAT is his top priority? Killing Palpatine? Getting power? Having Rey? Getting forgiven by his parents?

I think for a redemption arc to work, the character can’t have scattered motivation. There needs to be one prioritizing drive that outweighs every other possible factor to push the character into that direction.

Which is why I think, in the end, Hux’s little mini-not-redemption is actually a lot more convincing. Hux is a monster. There’s no question about that. He’s the Tarkin to Kylo’s Vader, without any of the respect.

Hux is a fanatic. He was raised by a fanatic, and the First Order has been his entire life FOR his entire life. This is the man who blew up five planets. He actively uses enslaved and brainwashed children. The idea that he could EVER turn on the First Order is laughable.

Unless he has a very good reason. And as hilarious as it is, hatred of Kylo Ren is actually a comprehensible reason.

We saw how they interacted in TFA: the rivalry and frustration. We saw that continue in TLJ, with the added fear/frustration that Kylo Ren is now the man in charge. So the idea that Hux might hate Kylo enough to try to bring down the First Order from the inside is actually believable.

And it’s a single focus. It’s a prioritizing drive that outweighs every other factor. I absolutely believe that Hux sent those warnings to the Resistance, and those warnings are what enabled the Resistance to meet the Emperor head on and win the day.

Obviously that doesn’t make Hux a good man. It’s not as “pure” of a motive as Vader’s. But it’s a foot in the door. It’s possible that had Hux survived, he might have been brought back to the Resistance to stand trial. He might have gotten to see the way the Resistance works. He might have appreciated the efficiency of not having to deal with daily backstab attempts and scheming. He may have grown to appreciate certain people, and to envy the things that the Resistance/Republic can give to someone that the First Order can’t.

Maybe. Or maybe he’d have backslid back into his old evil ways now that Kylo Ren is no longer a relevant factor. Hard to say.

Ultimately, Ben Solo suffers from being opaque. Because he never speaks after his face to face with Han, we don’t really know why he specifically chose that moment to turn to the Light. It comes across, to me, as obligatory. Kylo Ren is redeemed because the writers want him to me, not because it’s an organic choice for the character.

Maybe this is something that the novelization can fix for me.

#tros spoilers #poor little serial killer #anti bendemption #anti kylo ren #though I'm not sure it's anti so much as just confused.

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firelxdykatara · 5 years

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*sigh* why do people keep comparing r/eylo to zutara and putting them in the same group? Were they not paying attention to the show? Did they not see Zuko's evolution?

Honestly, I really don’t know.

Like, ok, superficially, I can almost kinda get it. Angry boy with a scar on his face and the girl who could kick his ass offering to heal him? Ok, fine. Even aesthetically, red and blue, tol and smol, fine. I can sorta see it. But the instant you dig even a little bit deeper, they just… aren’t the same at all???? Not even remotely????

And, ok, I’ll admit to some measure of bias, because I don’t ship reylo and I don’t like it as a ship, nor do I want it to happen in any way in canon, but like, part of the reason Zutara works so well is that it’s not a hero/villain ship. It’s enemies-to-lovers, for sure, but the vast majority of us ship it because of Zuko’s redemption arc.

Yeah, you’ll see ‘I’ll save you from the pirates’ UST jokes, and a lot of us started shipping it back in book 1, but it was obvious from the beginning that Zuko was going to get redeemed. He may have been a villain, but he was never the villain–he was narratively placed as the secondary protagonist (deuteragonist) of the show from his very first appearance. He was given his own narrative arc that had little to do with the main plotline of Aang’s journey, because while his own journey ran parallel to the gaang, it was separate and distinct because he was on his way to his own redemption even then.

Zuko Alone, in book 2, drove this home even further. You don’t give someone who isn’t the primary protagonist of the show an episode all to themselves (literally none of the gaang shows up for even a second) unless this is a character who’s meant to have just as much narrative significance as the main cast. Zuko was always going to join the gaang, and so much zutara meta and fanfic rests on how amazing and emotionally fulfilling their relationship development was, as friends, and that it would have made so much sense for their friendship to go even further.

Reylo doesn’t have any of that.

First of all, Kylo Ren is not Zuko–not even close. Kylo has far more agency in being dark than Zuko ever did. Ben Solo had loving parents and grew up in a supportive environment. His uncle ultimately made a mistake, sure, but a) we see three versions of that particular story: the sanitized version (luke), the demonized version (kylo), and the truth, and b) kylo already had the knights of ren all ready to go and slaughter a bunch of kids.

He was already dark. You don’t go and murderdeathkill a bunch of kids and people you’d ostensibly been raised with just because you saw your uncle standing over you with a lightsaber he clearly wasn’t going to actually use unless you were already making plans to do just that. You can blame as much of it as you want on Snoke and his influence, but that would be a little like blaming Palpatine for Anakin–yeah, he gets some of the blame for manipulating the situation, but Anakin’s still the one who made the choice to kill a temple full of children and choke out his own wife. Darth Vader may have, in the end, chosen to return to the light, but that doesn’t absolve him of the evils he chose to commit.

Kylo is, tragically, in the same narrative position as Darth Vader was in the original trilogy–and Vader couldn’t even bring himself to kill his son. But Kylo chose to kill his father. And that, incidentally, is one of the places where Zuko and Kylo are essentially diametrically opposed. Zuko turned on Uncle Iroh, yes, but he didn’t cross a line from which there was no coming back–he didn’t kill him. He, in fact, kept going to see him, trying to figure out why the choice he’d made felt so wrong when it was supposed to be everything he’d always wanted. Meanwhile, Kylo murdered his own father because he was hoping to destroy that last link to his own humanity.

And he succeeded.

Furthermore, Rey is not Katara. I love them both, so much, but they are very different people, and different characters who fulfill different narrative spaces in their own stories. In Rey’s position, Katara would probably have killed Kylo in the throne room when he turned on her after killing Snoke. Or, placing Kylo in Zuko’s place in atla, if he’d killed Hakoda (remembering that Han was the only father figure rey’d ever known)? She would have destroyed him. No fucking mercy

Katara does not forgive easily. It took Zuko not only proving that he was on the side of good (which he did multiple times, one of which he even saved her father), but specifically proving to her that he cared for her and genuinely wanted to help–by helping her gain closure for her mother’s murder. She emotionally connected with Zuko in the crystal catacombs, sure, but when he turned on her she hated him and had no intention of turning back. (Even though, from Zuko’s perspective, it wasn’t a betrayal at all–he’d made no promises, and it was his sister offering him everything he’d ever wanted. As far as he was concerned, the only person he betrayed there was his uncle, which is why it took him so long to realize just why Katara hated him so much. And even then he needed her brother’s help to figure out how to fix it.)

On the other hand, Rey was ready, willing, even eager to believe that Kylo could be returned to the light side–could become Ben again. This after he’d done something utterly unforgiving right in front of her, and tried to kill her multiple times. (Notably, at no point during Zuko and Katara’s antagonistic relationship was Zuko actually trying to kill her. He was trying to capture Aang. The worst thing he did was burn down Suki’s village, and that was largely an accident, because he was trying to get to Aang to capture him–alive.) She wanted to believe there was good in him. Katara couldn’t have cared less, throughout the first two books–and then, when confronted with the fact that Zuko had suffered something to which she could relate, she connected with him… and he turned on her. (From her perspective, she’d just reached out and offered this boy a chance to prove he’d changed… and he threw it in her face. So yeah, she took it incredibly fucking personally.)

Even now, it’s possible that if Kylo comes at Rey with some ‘I’m really light now’ story, she’ll probably want to believe him. But even if Reylo happens (and I’ll stress that I really don’t think it’s going to, and if it does I’ll probably be bitterly disappointed, but what else is new) it won’t even remotely resemble Zutara because they are, at their core, incredibly different relationships. Katara didn’t start warming up to Zuko, after that book 2 betrayal, until after he’d proven himself again and again, and helped her begin to heal from the trauma she’d suffered as a child. Furthermore, Zuko was never that evil to begin with. He was being primed for a redemption arc from the start, and he never even came close to the sort of moral event horizon Kylo pole-vaulted over when he murdered a whole bunch of students in their beds and then killed his own father.

And here’s the thing a lot of these Zuko-lite redemption arcs don’t seem to understand–it’s not a one-size-fits-all storyline. You can’t just slap Zuko’s redemption arc on any old villain, because for a redemption to work, it needs to be tailored specifically to fit the villain in question. And most villains aren’t Zuko–he was a very special kind of ‘secondary protagonist who starts out bad and gets a little bit worse before he gets better and joins the good guys’, which most villains can’t hope to match. If you want to redeem someone who’s canonically done far more atrocious acts, their redemption has to encompass the fact that not only are they getting better, but they are actively atoning for the horrible things they’ve done.

Killian Jones, from Once Upon a Time, had a redemption arc which looked nothing like Zuko’s, because he wasn’t a villain like Zuko. His redemption involved not only coming to realize that he’d been doing bad things for a very long time in search of a vengeance which was, ultimately, not what he really wanted or needed, but also making amends to the people he’d hurt over his very long life (those he still could help, at least). (Interestingly enough, that same show had a great example of a horribly botched redemption, in which we were supposed to take it on faith that the character was Good Now even though she’d never once expressed either remorse for the evil she’d committed [which was a lot more evil than Killian ever had] or a desire to make amends to those she’d wronged. In fact, come the end of the show, she still had a vault full of stolen hearts she’d never so much as made an effort to return, even though many of their owners were, ostensibly, in the same town she’d created through one of her many acts of villainy. It was… kind of strange, to say the least, to see how they could get one villain’s redemption so right and another’s so horribly wrong.)

Anyway, tl;dr: the upshot of this all is, Kylo Ren is not Zuko–he’s not even close–and Rey is not Katara. Their relationships look nothing alike, and even if Kylo is redeemed, it’s not going to look anything like Zuko’s redemption–partly because Zuko was never that bad to begin with and Kylo would have much more for which to atone, partly because their narrative journeys are so very very different–and I have never understood the comparison beyond a very surface-level reading of their character aesthetics.

#zutara #zuko #katara #anti reylo #(just in case)#Anonymous #asked

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wonderfulworldofmichaelford · 4 years

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Psycho Analysis: Kylo Ren

(WARNING! This analysis contains SPOILERS!)

When I said Pryde was the best villain in the sequel trilogy, I wasn’t kidding. All of the other villains have something holding them back from true greatness. And nowhere is that more apparent than the big bad of the trilogy himself, Kylo Ren, AKA Ben Solo.

In The Force Awakens, he was built up as an unhealthily obsessed Darth Vader fanboy, trapped between the Light and Dark sides which were pulling him, and prone to anger and tantrums at the drop of a hat. He was petulant and creepy to be sure, but it was an interesting direction to take a villain… and then slowly, over the course of the sequels, he morphed into different but vaguely similar characterizations that ultimately left him as the epitome of a Darth Vader clone, with his character arc taking the same beats and cramming them into three films.

In short, while not a bad villain by far, Kylo Ren may be the biggest wasted element of the sequel movies, bar none.

Motivation/Goals: So Kylo Ren is a rather simple villain on the surface: he’s motivated by a pursuit of power. But he is also motivated by Rey herself, wanting to corrupt her and have her join him as the head of the First Order. Some people really want you to believe there is some level of romantic attraction here, but honestly, I never saw it. Kylo Ren always seems more like a depraved stalker in his pursuit of Rey, and Rey frequently and violently rejects him. While there is a touch of romance at the very end, it feels really forced and lame. Overall, he has pretty standard motivations in terms of Star Wars villains, with just a touch of interesting flair to keep him interesting for at least two films in a row before the third film cements him as a carbon copy of Vader.

Performance: The one truly great element of Kylo Ren is Adam Driver’s performance. Driver is, simply put, incredible; he does a fantastic job at portraying Kylo Ren as a disturbed, broken man who was twisted into villainy before fully embracing it. The violent tantrums, the brutal combat stylings, his sinister voice as he tries to corrupt Rey… he does an amazing job. And to his credit, when the time comes for his forced redemption, he manages to pull it off as convincingly as he is allowed without once speaking, using only body language and facial expressions. He really manages to sell that Ben Solo is Han Solo’s son in these scenes. Frankly, Driver’s acting is what redeems Ren at all in the end, because a lesser actor would not be able to come out of The Rise of Skywalker relatively unscathed (just ask Domhnall Gleeson).

Final Fate: After a conversation with his dad’s ghost, Kylo Ren redeems himself by tossing aside his lightsaber and going to save Rey from Palpatine. We get extended sequences of Adam Driver pulling off a great Harrison Ford-esque performance that reminds you Ben Solo is supposed to be his kid, and then finally he sacrifices his power to save Rey from “death by grandpa.” Rey then delivers a kiss that’s so bad that poor Ben disintegrates. At least Reylo can’t happen now!

Best Scene: Really, anytime Kylo Ren fights is great or has a tantrum is great. Across his appearances in the trilogy, I do think his back-to-back duel with Rey and then attempt to sway her to the Dark Side as well as his confrontation with Luke, both scenes from The Last Jedi, are really standout. The Last Jedi, despite dropping a lot of the elements that made Kylo Ren interesting in favor of just making him as creepy and sinister as possible, really allowed Driver to show how good he is at playing a villain.

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Best Quote: Again, I must praise The Last Jedi, because the dialogue when he tries to turn Rey is so wonderful and sinister. I always got the feeling like Kylo Ren was trying to gaslight and manipulate Rey at every turn, and this dialogue definitely sold me on it:

Ren: It's time to let old things die. Snoke, Skywalker, the Sith, the Jedi, the Rebels; Let it all die. Rey... I want you to join me. We can rule together and bring a new order to the galaxy!

Rey: Don't do this, Ben. Please, don't go this way.

Ren: No, no, you're still... holding on! Let go! Do you want to know the truth about your parents? Or have you always known? And you've just hidden it away. You know the truth. Say it. Say it.

Rey: They were nobody.

Ren: They were filthy junk traders, who sold you off for drinking money. They're dead in a pauper's grave in the Jakku desert. You have no place in this story; you come from nothing. You're nothing... but not to me. Join me. Please.

Final Thoughts & Score: Kylo Ren is simultaneously the best-acted character in the sequel trilogy and a character who struggles to overcome the obnoxious, scattershot nature of the writing. And yet despite that, Kylo Ren does have the best and most consistent arc, though the end result is just really awkwardly done.

Kylo Ren seriously had the potential to be an interesting and worthy successor to Darth Vader; the way he was set up, it seemed like we were going to get a truly evil and irredeemable Star Wars villain for once. In the first film, we get a hint of his struggles, his internal battle with the pull of the Light and the Dark side, we see his tantrums and his obsession with this glorified idea of Darth Vader, and it all culminates with the moment where he kills his father, which is quite frankly a powerful moment. It really establishes his character well and sets up an intriguing storyline…

…and, to its credit, The Last Jedi does continue the storyline. Kylo Ren cements himself as a cruel and irredeemable, with him usurping the power of the First Order by killing Snoke, attempting to kill his mother, and trying to strike down Luke. Despite the divisive nature of the film and how poorly it treated characters like Poe, Hux, and Finn, The Last Jedi knew how to handle Kylo Ren and continue his character arc in a satisfying and logical manner. But then, of course, along came The Rise of Skywalker, and he gets tossed into a stereotypical redemption arc. This would be fine if the films prior hadn’t built him up as utterly irredeemable as a villain, with him killing his own father, attempting to kill his mother, and so on.

And while, yes, Vader did the same exact things, that’s the issue: Kylo Ren seemed to be being built up as a different beast from Vader due to his idolization of the negative traits of Vader’s legacy and not his ultimate turn and redemption in the eyes of the Force. There was an assumption in the first two films of the sequel that Kylo was going to be something different, especially with all the twists and his numerous villainous actions, but ultimately they redeem him, and while the incitement to the redemption and the acting Adam Driver shows in his silent rescue of Rey is fantastic, it ultimately just makes the character feel like a boring, less-impressive retread of something we’ve seen before, which is an overarching problem with the whole trilogy to be frank, though The Rise of Skywalker is really where it hits worst. Kylo Ren needed to stay a villain, needed to embrace the Dark side, and needed to die instead of giving us the tired redemption arc that we saw executed far better in the first six movies.

Adam Driver seriously is what carries this character, because despite the inane twists and turns the character takes, Driver still manages to deliver a fantastic, powerful performance, but it does leave you sad he didn’t get to go full villain. Driver clearly has the chops for it, but the shortcomings of the script really end up hurting him. Ultimately, Kylo Ren ended up being a stale, tired retread of one of the most important villains ever created despite being set up to be so much more, and it frankly pays me that I can only justify giving him a 6/10. Him even being that high is mostly a testament to how fantastic Driver is in the role, as he’d easily be a 4 or a 5 if he was played by a lesser man, but it’s still rather bittersweet, since Kylo Ren deserved to truly be a great villain, but because of corporate mandates, merchandising demands, and awful writing decisions, he ended up a less interesting Darth Vader clone. And Star Wars is a series with no shortage of clones as it is.

#psycho analysis #Kylo Ren #Ben Solo #Adam Driver #Star Wars

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onlymollygibson · 4 years

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Trying to Appease Every Single Fan Backfired Spectacularly: An Analysis of The Rise of Skywalker

Up until The Rise of Skywalker, every Star Wars movie made has added new levels of depth, complexity and fun to the Star Wars canon and enhanced the viewing of previous movies. The Rise of Skywalker did the opposite, by disrespecting or invalidating key themes and plot elements from previous movies. (Spoilers below the cut)

Bringing Palpatine Back:

Not only is this a complete invalidation of Vader’s sacrifice in RotJ, but it completely undoes the interesting set-up at the end of TLJ:

What does Kylo Ren (a Darth Vader analog) do after killing his master and not turning to the light?

Can he hold onto power or does someone like Hux usurp him?

Both the Resistance and the First Order have been weakened considerably by the end of TLJ. How does this play out in the complicated field of intergalactic politics?

These questions will never be answered because Abrams apparently didn’t know what to do without a Big Bad.

Since a redemption arc for Kylo Ren was obviously in the plans, it makes absolutely no sense to have him kill his evil master in TLJ and then go back and have to face his *real* evil master in TRoS.

If you want to make a satisfying redemption arc in just three movies, you can’t afford to re-tread the same ground twice. The next step after killing Snoke should have been Kylo Ren ruling as Supreme Leader, without Snoke’s voice in his head, and still feeling empty. Think Zuko in Season 3 of AtLA, when he goes back to the Fire Nation a hero. He had everything he thought he wanted, but he realized his victory was hollow and he was on the wrong side all along. Now that’s a satisfying redemption arc.

Rey Palpatine

Not only did Rian Johnson have Kylo Ren explicitly state Rey has no place in this story, but she had a freaking force vision telling her basically the same thing. The force vision in TLJ (and arguably a key theme of the movie as well) is rendered meaningless by the Rey Palpatine reveal in TRoS.

Also, we’ve done the whole ‘protagonist finds out they’re descended from the villain’ before, with the whole Luke - Vader reveal.

You mean to tell me the grandson of Darth Vader died to save the granddaughter of Palpatine? Seriously?

Kylo Ren dies

The following people died in an attempt to return Ben Solo to the light.

Han Solo

Luke Skywalker

Leia Organa

They succeeded, but only for ten minutes, because the Last Skywalker rose (or climbed out of a hole or whatever - seriously THAT was the title of the movie) and then died two minutes later.

Not to mention they’re telling the same story twice. Again! And just like with the Rey Palpatine nonsense, they told it better the first time. Darth Vader - manipulated from childhood by a creepy evil dude. Dies. His grandson - manipulated from childhood by a creepy evil dude. Dies. Recycling old plots is not good storytelling.

Furthermore, the story of Darth Vader becomes much more tragic if his death to save the next generation didn’t really save them, since his grandson became obsessed with his legacy, repeated his mistakes and ended the same way Vader did -with death ten minutes after he turned back to the light. Only KR didn’t even have another generation to save.

Lando Calrissian rallies the troops

Remember how emotional it was when no one was around to help Leia in TLJ? It turns out all she needed last time was Lando Calrissian and a space boom box or whatever he did to get that many people to show up in no time at all. I mean, I know it was because he went to the Core Worlds, but thematically, you’ve got Lando Calrissian succeeding where Princess Leia failed and it doesn’t sit right with me.

Force Healing

Remember Anakin Skywalker, who turned to the Dark Side to save Padme and stayed on the Dark Side for like thirty years afterwards? Well he’s in Force heaven watching the scene where Rey heals Kylo Ren with absolute disgust. “Seriously? It was that easy? That would have been nice to know before I threw Mace Windu off a building.”

A particularly egregious way in which TRoS disrespected previous movies was the method in which this movie raised the stakes.

Remember how absolutely terrified the Rebels were of the Death Star in Rogue One. Remember that achingly beautiful bittersweet ending? Well now forty-ish years later, they’re still fighting that same fight, to the point that it’s become a joke. The bad guys make a planet killer. The good guys blow it up. How have we had five out of eleven movies with this same plot? Every time you tell the same story AGAIN, it cheapens the other times the story has been told. It’s like inflation.

Seriously? The final battle of the nine-movie saga involves fighting like five hundred Star Destroyers that came out of nowhere with giant Death Star canons strapped on the bottom?

I mean yes, the idea is horrifying, but imagine the directors of Nightmare on Elm Street saying, “Freddie Krueger was terrifying and people loved the movie. For the sequel, let's have a hundred Freddie Kruegers running around.” It works with snakes and spiders, but not super creepy people or powerful weapons.

This is especially true because the Sith Fleet was basically pulled out of thin air, which makes the whole thing feel like Diabolus ex Machina.

It’s made doubly ridiculous because they’re not only absurdly powerful, they’re also easy to destroy. I mean, seriously, Tie Fighters are harder to blow up than those things. A single strafing run from a Y-wing and the whole dang Star Destroyer is toast. This means you don’t really need any battle tactics beyond ‘shoot the giant gun,’ which makes for a really boring action sequence. Star Wars is famous for its dogfights in space. I mean, yeah, the tactics are not actually plausible because zero gravity changes warfare in ways they don’t address, but it’s fine because of the Rule of Cool.

As for the characters and relationships, it’s kind of a trainwreck and nobody is really happy.

Tons of fans are unhappy because Kylo Ren and Rey kissed

Many were opposed to the idea of a villain turning good because he was in love with the hero and that’s exactly what happened in this movie

Others were unhappy because they saw KR as an unredeemable monster and yet he had a (small, not very well executed) redemption arc.

He never suffered for his past actions or even really talked about them, yet he and the protagonist are in love, so it’s fine.

The fans who wanted a Kylo Ren/Rey relationship were unhappy because of how the relationship played out

The redemption arc wasn’t all that great.

The whole Rey Palpatine thing means that KR lied to Rey when he asked her to join him in TLJ. That line was cringey enough when it was true, and now that it's a lie, it’s twice as bad.

They’re a diad in the Force and now one of them is dead? How is that a happy ending?

A major theme of the sequels was Rey finding belonging and someone who understand her. KR was sold as a dual protagonist, someone who understands her. They were on the same side for ten minutes and then he died and Rey doesn’t cry, instead she goes sand sledding and takes the Skywalker name. Seriously, how is this a ‘satisfying’ ending?

And a few minor things

Why does Rose only get like four lines?

General Hux had like two minutes of screen time. For a fan-favorite villain, his ending was disappointing. He really owned his two minutes, though. But think, without the Palpatine nonsense, there could have been more time to examine the discord in the ranks of the First Order higher-ups, with some focus on the lack of respect the original Imperials have for the new generation of First Order commanders. When you raise the stakes with a larger-than-life villain (especially one who was supposed to have died), you run the risk of losing the far more interesting stories revolving around villains who are far more human, both in their powers and in their emotions and desires.

Did anyone have character growth in this movie? Because to me it seemed like they were so busy with shots of CGI copy-pasted Star Destroyers in a row, that they didn’t leave time for personal growth or emotional payoff.

Early reviews said The Rise of Skywalker checked all the boxes for a Star Wars movie, but forgot about the heart. Now that I finally dragged myself to the theater to see for myself, I can’t help but agree.

#tros #tros spoilers #star wars #meta #the rise of skywalker #more like the trainwreck of skywalker #or is it a dumpster fire #space dumpster fire #trash compactor fire?#anyways my husband and I spent like two hours roasting it after we got out of the theater

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tesb · 4 years

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i've only seen the last jedi, but i do follow thanks to tumblr

okay, so you get the gist!

spoiler alert: i’ll explain what happened in star wars: the rise of skywalker below the cut.

i’ll try and summarize as much as i can and explain a little. there’s many people who condemn the entire film but honestly, i could have swallowed most of it, save for one stupid storyline. but yeah, i’ll get into it. i’ll be skipping a lot of stuff but i apologize if this ends up being pretty long anyway. to be fair, the movie itself is quite long and they were able to fit a lot of dumb things into it.

also: check out jenny nicholson’s youtube video on the movie!

so, in the opening crawls in star wars films, we usually find out what our heroes and main characters have been up to since the last film. they set the scene: nothing major happens in these opening crawls, but major events are left for the films themselves. well, not in this one! in TROS, the opening crawl reveals that emperor palpatine is back, and we’re supposed to just… accept that without any questions. to me, it seems like star wars’ biggest villain coming back would be a bigger event than a couple lines in the opening crawl and deserves more explanation, but i digress.

cut to kylo ren who gets a sith wayfinder, killing a bunch of people in the progress as per usual, and goes to palpatine’s hidey hole on this uncharted planet. palpatine tells him that snoke was his puppet all along and reveals a massive fleet of star destroyers, which is also left unexplained. palpatine orders kylo ren to kill rey (which later leads him to multiple battles with rey throughout the film.)

at the resistance base, they discover that palpatine is on this planet and they need a sith wayfinder to get there. so here starts a goddamn loooooooong mission of them trying to get this wayfinder (they really could have cut this part of the movie down, especially because the whole thing was so convoluted already.) the person who last had the wayfinder conveniently happens to be an assassin who killed rey’s parents and she keeps having visions of them.

at one point on this mission to find the wayfinder, they’re in a very open area on a desert planet and kylo ren and the knights of ren show up in this massive ship. chewbacca gets captured and is in the ship when rey tries to rescue him by using the force, but accidentally blasts the whole thing with lightning. so they all think chewbacca is dead and they leave. but he isn’t dead, because there just so happened to be another massive ship there that they somehow didn’t see, and rey blasted that one instead, and chewbacca was captured in the other. this makes the entire thing feel cheap and their mourning even more hollow.

eventually rey does sense that chewbacca is alive. on their mission to rescue chewbacca, rey confronts kylo ren once again. kylo ren taunts rey about her parents. he eventually reveals that she is the granddaughter of emperor palpatine and that her parents were nobodies because they “chose” to be, and asks her to join him once again. rey being palpatine’s granddaughter makes less sense than her being, say, rey kenobi.

on the same mission, it’s revealed that general hux has been working as a spy for the resistance, and that his only motivation for doing so was preventing kylo ren from winning. winning what, i don’t know. he saves poe, finn and chewbacca and tries to cover up his tracks but dies later anyway. his whole storyline seemed pretty pointless, which is a shame, because he started out as a pretty interesting character in the force awakens. by the rise of skywalker, he was reduced to a caricature of his former self.

we’re introduced to two new characters at two different points in the film, zorii bliss from poe’s past, and jannah, and ex-stormtrooper just like finn, who, as it happens, becomes quite close to finn. i didn’t dislike either of them whatsoever but i strongly feel like these characters were brought in just to reiterate that finn and poe are very much Not Gay (because, let’s face it, the people at disney are cowards.) the LGBT “rep” we do get is a lesbian couple kissing in the background in one of the final scenes in the movie, in a shot that lasts for approx. 0.2 seconds and that has already been cut from the film in some countries.

on a similar note, rose tico was also completely pushed to the sidelines in this film when she had a huge role in the previous one. they don’t even have a proper explanation for it, which sucks, because kelly marie tran was absolutely fantastic in the role. poe’s and finn’s roles were also reduced quite a lot, and i genuinely failed to see any character development from them and there was a great lack of good, character-building emotional moments across the board.

when rey finally gets to the wayfinder (that is on a destroyed death star) kylo ren confronts her for a third time in the same film and he destroys the wayfinder. when kylo ren and rey are fighting, leia organa reaches out to kylo ren through the force while she is dying, and in this moment, rey gets the upper hand and strikes him. but when she senses leia’s death she suddenly feels remorse for him (????? WHY) and immediately saves him by healing him using the force. the tone shift in the scene is jarring.

in rey leaves and kylo ren suddenly sees his dead father – who he killed – and after speaking to han solo, his nonexistent redemption arc begins and he “becomes ben solo again”. i say nonexistent because it literally came out of nowhere. we seldom saw him doubt the dark side and we only saw him turn away from rey when she tried to turn him to the light, time and time again. in the last jedi, their final shot together was rey literally closing a door on him, i.e. symbolizing her finally giving up on trying to turn him to the good side. but since the rise of skywalker tried to undo everything the last jedi did, of course that didn’t matter anymore.

rey uses kylo ren’s ship to go on the same planet luke had resided on in the force awakens and the last jedi because she’s so shook by her parentage (meanwhile i was shook by the awfulness of this plot while sitting in the cinema audience.) luke’s force ghost shows up to tell rey that she needs to face palpatine and so, here begins the worst final “battle” in star wars history, probably.

the resistance fleet follow rey to the planet where palpatine is. rey finds palpatine, and palpatine encourages rey to kill him so that “his spirit can transfer into her.” this whole scene is extremely awkward because palpatine tells rey his entire plan, narrating all the details. it’s very much “you have to do this so i can do this and this” and it feels like the plot needs him to do this so that the audience understands what’s going on, and it’s so painfully bad. suddenly, kylo ren shows up to help rey. and suddenly, palpatine’s plan changes and he uses rey’s and kylo ren’s force bond to “revitalize” himself. and he’s still explaining every bit of the process.

palpatine starts blasting the resistance fleet with his lighting, yeets kylo ren to a hole in the ground (some kind of chasm? i don’t know) and rey collapses. she suddenly hears the voices of a bunch of jedi ghosts in her head, encouraging her, and gets up and manages to kill not only palpatine but herself as well. kylo ren suddenly reappears and brings rey back to life with force healing. in an extremely awkward and forced moment, they embrace each other and kiss, effectively making reylo canon, all for fan service. he does drop dead, but the scene prior to him dying sends an awful precedent for future watchers of the film. i’m all for letting people ship who they want to ship as long as they’re aware it can be extremely problematic and toxic, but it’s a whole different story when a well-known franchise makes said ship canon.

kylo ren has abused rey mentally and assaulted her physically. he is a mass murderer, a war criminal, and literally killed his own goddamn parent. he has done things that are absolutely unforgivable. in the last scene of the film, someone asks rey who she is, and she decides to say “rey skywalker”; there’s a message in TROS that indicates where you come from doesn’t dictate whether you’re “bad” or “good” – see: rey being a palpatine but being a good character. if kylo ren had represented the opposite of rey to the end, i.e. how he came from a good background but still decided to turn to the dark side, the message the film was trying to send wouldn’t have been so undermined.

the last film also makes rey’s entire purpose in the sequel trilogy tied to kylo ren, and it genuinely angers me – they just couldn’t leave her storyline be, could they? her purpose all along was, yes, to kill palpatine, but also to get kylo ren to turn away from the dark side, to help him, to “cure him”. we’re supposed to believe that all along she wanted to “take ben’s hand” and that she was in love with her abuser.

my biggest problem is with this film’s influence and what they decided to do. the fact that they made a romantic scene between the abuser and his abuse victim makes my skin crawl. i could have accepted everything else, but not this. it’s my one big problem with the movie that i cannot, for the life of me, overlook. little kids are going to see this movie. they’re going to see kylo ren murdering, manipulating, abusing people for two and a half movies straight. and they’re going to watch him be redeemed like a second-rate darth vader. but at least darth vader lost everything when he turned to the dark side, reiterating that the dark side is genuinely Very Bad. at least darth vader died without getting a reward like rey was used as kylo ren’s reward for his “redemption arc.” i wish this film hadn’t used rey like it did, but it happened; at moments, she was reduced to a prop in kylo ren’s story instead of her continually being an individual in her own story.

there’s probably a better version of this film somewhere because it feels like a million ideas smashed into one big mess and i sometimes felt like i was watching a fan-film rather than a real star wars movie. the makers of this film being disney, they were trying to please everyone, and that was the biggest mistake they could have possibly made. they didn’t have a solid plan for the sequel trilogy, and it shows. painfully well.

#i truly hate this film #can you tell.#i bet you can't #anonymous #answered #star wars: the rise of skywalker #anti tros #anti reylo #anti kylo ren

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buddiebeginz · 4 years

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So I know I’m late to the party on this one but I’m gonna rant about my issues with TROS mainly because I just saw it again last night and I need to get some stuff off my chest. Warning this will probably get long and I’m sure I’ll repeat some stuff every one else has said

Also I know some of the things I bring up might be resolved to a point in the novelizations, with the commentary, or deleted scenes but most won’t see those so they don’t really count for the movie explaining things properly in some areas.

The movie has some enjoyable parts but doesn’t compare to TFA and doesn’t even come close to TLJ which in my opinion is the best out of the sequel trilogy. TLJ leaves you with all these questions at the end (especially in regards to Ben and Rey) in a good way that you think are going to be answered the next time you see these see characters in TROS but many of the questions are never answered.

Things feel messy and there’s too much going on all over the place. It’s easy to remember what the first two movies in the sequel trilogy are about it’s harder to remember all the stuff that went on in TROS because it feels really disjointed. Like they spend all this time looking for these triangle things (I forget what they were called) to find the planet Palpatine is on but little attention is given to what they are or why you need some special gadget to find these planets. Even when they find them it’s just over and done with pretty quickly. I also think there’s a lot better things they could have been doing with the final installment to the trilogy than wasting time on these things. Very little focus was given to character and relationship growth and development when it was literally the most important time to be giving it. There were so many scenes were I was just like what is the point of this? Like when they faked out Chewie’s death it felt really emotional at first and I was honestly shocked and sad. Then the movie was like psych just fucking with you he’s still alive and I’m like wtf was the point of that? All it served was so that they could go rescue Chewie but they could have done that without faking out his death. Or they could have had some other reason for them to end up on the ship like maybe rescuing Rey.

As others Have stated characters like Finn and Poe didn’t really feel like that had a good character arc through TROS and the series as a whole. I’d argue that TLJ gave a little more depth to both of them with showing Poe’s struggles in wanting to lead the rebellion and Finn’s whole journey with Rose and facing off against Phasma. I don’t think the TROS did too much to really close out either one of their storylines though well except for maybe giving Poe more of a chance to lead but tbh I don’t get all the choices they made for Finn.

They kept making it seem like Finn had romantic feelings for Rey (like when he said he wanted to tell her something) even though they’ve only ever been friends and it didn’t make sense for that to be a part of their storyline. If they wanted to give Finn a love interest it would have made way more sense for them to have it be Rose, or Poe. I didn’t like the fact that out of nowhere they had Finn just suddenly become force sensitive at the end of TROS. If they wanted Finn to be Jedi or force sensitive that should have been introduced in TFA not in the very back end of TROS. I wouldn’t have had a problem with Finn being a Jedi but it just didn’t feel like that was supposed to be a part of his storyline for the majority of the series. The writing made it feel incredibly shoe horned in.

This is pretty nitpicky but the movie is super dark in places particularly the end fight with Palpatine. I’m all for good mood lighting but someone needed to tell the editors to inject some light because you could hardly tell wth was going on in some of those scenes.

Bringing back Palaptine was just one of the worst decision they’ve made in Star Wars in my opinion. It was totally unnecessary and worse it undermines all the work that was done in the original trilogy to get rid him. Vader’s sacrifice was essentially for nothing. I mean I know it was about his redemption but part of that was killing Palpatine. Killing the man who screwed up his entire life and turned him to the dark side. The origtrig was supposed to mean the end of the Empire. I just get the feeling they weren’t really sure where to take things after Snoke was killed but the thing is we didn’t need another Snoke or worse bringing back villains from the past. TROS should have been about Ben (which I’ll get to that when I talk about the shit show of an ending)

I wish there had been more talking between Ben and Rey. I know I’m biased being a Reylo shipper and I get that it’s a Star Wars movie so there’s going to be a lot of action but the origtrig had a lot of talking. I mean there were scenes full of Vader and Luke just talking. Some of my favorite scenes in the whole trilogy are when Rey are Ben are just talking. There was so much more I wanted to know about these characters.

THE ENDING

(which needed a section all to it’s self because that’s how bad it was)

So by now everyone has ranted about how awful the ending is but in all honesty as much as I feel the same it could have been worse. I mean it could have ended with Rey and Ben fighting each other and him dying without a smidge of redemption. Still the redemption he got was minimal and lazy to what this character deserved.

This trilogy was really about Ben and Rey and they should have been the main focus of the last one especially Ben. In the first two movies of the sequel trilogy we see how Ben is being manipulated by Snoke and how he’s very much on the dark side but there’s still light in him, light that Rey finds and brings out. TROS should been the culmination of Ben’s fight to go back to the light. We never really saw a big dramatic storyline with Vader and his return to the light (we just got that end scene with him saving Luke) but we could and should have gotten that with Ben.

If you asked someone what the sequel trilogy was about they’d likely mention Rey and Kylo Ren and the sad thing is Ben was a central part of three movies yet had no real resolution or solid focus at the end of series.

The ending battle in TROS was mostly between Rey and Palaptine with Ben in there for a tiny bit and while I’m thankful we got the little bit of Reylo we got at the end if Palpatine had to be there it should have been Reylo battling him together. I found myself watching and thinking where the hell is Ben half the time.

When Rey says “be with me” in the middle of the Palaptine battle she should have been talking to Ben and not the force ghosts (who she didn’t know well) and he should have answered her back.

I don’t think that it was necessary to make Rey Palpatine’s granddaughter. I think they could have easily enough had her be powerful without having her be related to him. In actuality I think it would have made more sense to have her parents be nobody’s like was said in TLJ and it just happens that she’s really powerful. So you would have had Ben coming from a powerful loving family and being powerful yet turned to the dark side and Rey coming from a nothing cruel family who sold her and being powerful with the light. Not everything needs a huge explanation. I’m still very much of the opinion that Palpatine’s inclusion in TROS was totally unnecessary.

In TLJ there was a lot of focus put on Rey and Ben’s force bond it was even brought up sort of in TFA. We see it in TROS but I don’t feel like they ever really utilized it to the potential they could have. We should have seen more of them communicating through their bond especially during the end fight. And while I don’t think everything needs to be explained I still would have loved to see them talk about it in person. TROS shows us that their bond is so powerful it literally makes Palpatine exponentially more powerful when he takes their life force together but there’s never any explanation as to why Ben and Rey have this connection and why it’s so powerful. We’ve seen other force bonds with force sensitive people in the SW saga but never like these two have so what’s the difference? And why wasn’t it enough to save Ben?

So Rey dies and Ben gives his life force to save her. We get scenes with Ben crawling over to Rey, holding her, and looking absolutely shocked and anguished that Rey wouldn’t be with him anymore. Rey comes back they kiss and we see the first real smile from Ben in the entire series. and then he dies. Rey looks sad for a moment Ben disappears and that’s it, that’s the last time any reference to Ben is made in the movie. Rey loved him too Rey was eternally connected to him too yet the movie would have you believe all she felt was one moment of sadness over loosing her other half. It makes no sense. It also makes no sense why Ben wouldn’t be a force ghost unless he’s not dead.

And this is more of a commentary about fandom but I see so many people talk about how Reylo is abusive or how Ben can’t possibly be redeemed because of all the horrible things he’s done but no one seems to consider the fact that Ben was poisoned by the dark side at an age much younger than Anakin. Luke also turned on him and then lied about it which I have a huge problem with the movies acting like that was in any way okay. Like the only one who called Luke out on that was Rey but still Luke is partially responsible for what happened to Ben. My point in bringing this up in the ending is that Ben comes back to the light and without a moments hesitation he saves Rey and that still isn’t enough for some people he’s still this awful abusive person. He had so many chances to kill her, to hurt her, wound her terribly and he never did in fact it was her who ended up stabbing and almost killing him.

I’m not sure if Carrie Fisher’s death changed anything of how the ending was going to go. I’d assume so and I’ve read that Leia was supposed to play a bigger role in this movie so I’m not sure how it all would have played out but the way they had her die I think was another problem. There’s a video with an ending fix that shows Leia’s death bringing Ben back and I think that’s how it should have gone. Their whole battle on the Death Star to begin with was kind of messy you had Rey stab him, heal him, and then just leave which what was the purpose of all of that? But having Leia die then was less impactful as it would have been in the final moments of the movie. We don’t really know why Leia died in the movie just that when she did Ben felt it and it made him stop. If they had her die at the end it they could have made it so she chose to sacrifice herself to bring her son back so he could finally go be in the light with Rey.

When people watched the origtrig they saw Luke, Leia, and Han defeat the darkness good won out. Luke was even able to bring his father back to the light and talk to him and give himself closure. At the end of ROTJ the whole group are happy and together and there’s peace for first time in a long time. You might not have known exactly where these characters would end up after ROTJ but it all felt very hopeful. Now I’m not saying that everything needs to be wrapped up in a bow like that but where is the hope and inspiration at the end of TROS? Sure they defeated the bad guys but Rey is alone on sand planet basically back where she started.

I get that JJ and the other people involved with making the movie probably thought let’s be poetic and have TROS end where the original pretty much started on Tatooine but storyline wise it didn’t make sense for this trilogy and these characters and it was just plain tragic to have Rey end up back on a sand planet alone. One thing we’ve learned from Rey through the course of three movies is how alone she’s felt her entire life. How long she spent waiting for her parents because she thought they were coming back. How it’s clear she just wanted to to be loved and belong. She found that sense of love and belonging with Ben through their force bond and right when they could finally be together right when he finally came back to the light he was gone. She didn’t even have her friends with her she was truly alone.

If they had to have Ben die at the end of the battle and have Rey alone on Tatooine what they could have done was have her hear Ben at the end through their force connection and leave it open for interpretation as to whether he was still alive or just a ghost. I also think she should have taken Ben’s last name. This would connect her to the original trilogy in a way that would make older fans happy and it would connect her to Ben in a way that would make those of us who love Reylo happy. The thing is Rey was closer to Ben and his parents than she ever was to Luke. No offense to anyone who loves Luke but he wasn’t exactly the world’s best mentor. I mean I loved him in the origtrig but I wasn’t too happy with how he treated Rey and definitely not happy for what he did to Ben. Rey didn’t need to take his last name to honor him or Leia and Leia loved Han and Ben so Solo would have made her happy too. I just think JJ gave her the name Skywalker to make the fanboys happy. But Rey will always be a Solo to me.

I don’t know if they were trying to leave things intentionally vague or not at the end but a lot of it was. Like I said though I think the ending probably went through multiple changes in large part do to Carrie Fisher dying but other reasons too. I do think originally Ben wasn’t going to die but for whatever reasons that was changed. The scene where he lays down definitely feels weird like it was revered or something (as many have pointed out). I also don’t get the inclusion of force ghosts if they weren’t going to include Ben, either there should have been no ghosts or Ben should have been there too. Another reason I think the ending was changed was because of the scene on the Death Star. Why have Rey heal him only for him to die later? It felt like this movie was supposed to be about Ben’s healing and return to the light not his death. It just doesn’t fit.

I read this one post that talked about how Ben is dark with light and Rey is light with dark yin/yang they balance each other out and can’t exist without each other. So what is Rey’s life going to be like now that her other half is gone?

I think that the movie should have ended up with Ben and Rey together over looking some place green and beautiful (remember her saying she didn’t think there was this much green in the whole galaxy). Maybe some time in the future with Rey pregnant and them building a life together. They could have even had Ben teaching new Jedi students. I want to cry just thinking about it. There’s so many better choices they could have made for the ending than just Rey alone in the desert on mercenary planet where she’s probably going to have to fight to survive again.

Sorry this got so long I just wanted to get out all my feelings on this. If you read all the way down many blessings upon you and your cow. 😝💗 I’m totally open to talking about any of this even if you disagree just as long as you’re not sending me hateful bs.

#star wars #reylo #tros #tros spoilers #tros negativity #ep ix #sw!#reylo epix #long post #epix etc

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lilyfromfrogzcountry · 4 years

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Saw TROS - spoilers ahead, don’t read if you don’t want to be spoiled

I need to get some things off my chest to sort out my feelings about this movie :)

It wasn’t as /bad/ as I expected. Let’s say I didn’t get bored. However, there was a lot of stuff I found weird, dumb or that didn’t make sense to me. A lot of things seemed rushed and like last minute additions, which spoiled a bit my enjoyment of this movie. So here’s a little summary of what I liked and didn’t like.

((Before reading, please be aware that i’m a hux fan and a multishipper (reylo included). If this bothers you, please avoid reading this post, since this will probably influence my perception of the movie))

⛔⛔ SPOILERS JUST BELOW - BE WARNED ⛔⛔

What I liked :

Finn finding other stormtroopers having defected (a whole battalion, even), and realizing that he’s not alone. Even if it was to be expected, Finn was always presented as an exception in the story. This shows us the First Order’s stormtrooper program isn’t as efficient in its brainwashing as they claim to be.

Hux being a spy for the Resistance. I know some Hux fans may not have liked it, but I personally found it to be an interesting development in his character. It’s not everyday that a high ranking officer, who’s been a ‘true believer’ in the cause his whole life, changes side like that. I wish it would have been explored more deeply and seriously. Too bad it felt like a last minute addition.

This idea that “some things are stronger than blood”. Rey’s ancestry doesn’t matter, doesn’t influence her destiny. Light side or Dark: what matters is who she chooses to be.

CGI young Luke and Leia flashback (I’m really a fan of this CGI way of bringing back younger versions of actors, the result is always quite realistic imo).

This cute and polite new little robot, D-0 . So sad to learn it was abused by its former master :’(

Kylo’s clothes changing when turning back to the Light. Bye bye black menacing attire and long cape, hello simple shirt and pants. Even if I loved his former look, I quite liked this one as well, it made him appear more “human”. Also, damn, I really found Kylo to be a treat in this movie, he looked so good!

Rey always making a difference between Ben and Kylo Ren : she makes it clear that what interest her is Ben, ie. the Light side of him. It is only after he turns back to the Light for good, after he becomes Ben again, that he earns her trust and love.

Rey lethaly wounding Kylo, then healing him. Because it really seems to be the thing that shook this boy’s soul and made him turn back to the Light (it’s a big part of why, at least). Also, I’m always a sucker for nice characters showing compassion towards villains.

That reylo kiss tho. I know this is a very controversial ship, but since TFA, I was personally certain something deep was going to happen between those 2. I’m glad it was a cute, sweet and hopeful kiss, right after Kylo saved Rey no less. We even get some Ben Smile™. I really wish the movie would have ended here and there, on this hopeful note.

A lot of Hux’s scenes, since I just like him a lot, and he looks both cute and funny (even if I don’t really appreciate how this character was turned into a joke after TFA). Him being unsettled by Kylo having his mask back on, and then saying fearfully how it ‘looks good’ when Kylo calls him out on it in front of everyone. Kylo waving his finger at Hux to shut him up. The whole interaction with Finn and Poe, how they were surprised he was the spy, how he helped them escape, how he asked to be shot to pretend he was taken hostage, the “I don’t care who wins, I just want Kylo Ren to lose” line, etc. Also, how strong his mind must be if he managed to hide the fact he was the spy from Kylo for so long (or did Kylo know and just ignored it?)

What I didn’t like

Rey being Palpatine’s granddaughter and all her powers coming from him. I’m disappointed, because what really interested me in this character since TFA is that she was a nobody. Star Wars had always been centered around the Skywalker family and its Exceptional Destiny™. It was nice for a change to see someone who came from nothing be the main protagonist and shake up the galaxy just because it was the right thing to do (a parallel to Finn, a simple and almost exceedingly banal stormtrooper who chose to become something more, and wasn’t pushed by some hidden destiny/heritage). Also, this whole Palaptine arc seemed like it was added at the last minute.

The whole ‘Palpatine is back and wants to make a new Empire’ shit. For me, Palpatine was really a thing of the past. That’s also what interested me in the First Order: the fact this was a regime built on the ruins of the Empire, having evolved under its shadow and memory, but wanting to become something more. It was a good way of exploring the “how the past can influence the present” thematic, and could be used as an interesting parallel to IRL authoritatian regimes reclaiming a glorious past. If Palpatine was behind everything from the beginning, nothing of this matters. Also, what was the deal with Snoke, then? Was he a mere creation of Palpatine from the beginning? Or a real being that got captured and manipulated? What was the point of this character?

Hux’s death. Like, I may be biased because he’s my favorite character, but his death was so rushed and unnecessary. Did he really need to be killed off by Pryde like that, in such a quick and callous way? With Phasma and Snoke gone, he was the only one left in the First Order to have a past history with Kylo. I think it would have been better to have them interact more, especially with the whole story of Hux being a spy. It would have created some interesting interactions. Also, he’s not anybody storywise: he’s one of the architects of the First Order’s rise to power, perfected the Stormtrooper program, participated in the creation of Starkiller Base, gave the order to destroy the Republic... He’s not some random underling. Nobody seems to react or care when he’s killed off out of the blue, which doesn’t make any sense storywise.

The whole character of Allegiant General Pryde. What was even the point of this character? Where does he come from? What did he do that Hux couldn’t have done? The only interesting thing about this character seems to be that he already served Palpatine during the Empire, but after this fact is stated, it doesn’t come up again and doesn’t really influence the story. He doesn’t do anything extraordinary, just gives random orders. Clearly a waste, imo.

The fact that the Rose/Finn thing is completely abandoned. I know a lot of people didn’t like that kiss in TLJ. I personnaly didn’t really care. But it’s weird it’s never mentioned again, and that even in the few interactions those characters have together, there’s no awkwardness, no aknowledgement that it ever happened (even just to say “we moved on”). It’s like it never even existed. What was the point of that kiss, then?

That weird love triangle thing I felt between Rey/Finn/Poe, and the hostility Poe seemed to have towards Rey for a good part of the movie. I really wonder if they didn’t try to subtly cater to Finn/Rey shippers (by making Finn seem in love with Rey) and to Finn/Poe shippers (by making Poe seem in love with Finn, and jealous towards Rey), while nothing clear is ever stated out loud. Of course, I may have misread the vibes, but that’s what their interactions made me think of.

Kylo’s death. Like, I may here again be biased because I like redemption stories, but was it really necessary to have him die right when he turns back to the Light? I was so hopeful for him, and it was all gone in an instant. Also, his death was very weird and seemed rushed. Rey kisses him, he smiles, he seems quite fine and not /at all/ on the verge of death, and then he just loses conciousness and disappears? What even was that?? (also, very sad to make that whole family die off without having known any true happiness away from Palpatine’s manipulations)

Stuff overwhelming the story: too many big revelations, too many powerful ships appearing out of the blue, too many weird stuff happening with Palpatine (wtf was that ‘ritual’ even? what was this shadowy audience he had?). Just...a lot of stuff to digest. And the Palpatine storyline seemed like it was added out of the blue. Nothing in the 2 last movies gave a clue about this (or it wasn’t obvious). Seemed like a cheap last minute addition..

#tros spoilers #the rise of skywalker

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smuthuttpodcast · 4 years

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I have read some great or good pieces of fan fiction that incorporate a trial of Ben Solo into their stories.

Name/Handle/Alias

BonnieSwims (Twitter & AO3)

About how long would you say you’ve been rooting for Reylo?

I've been rooting for them since mid 2016. I REALLY started reading a large amount of fan fiction after seeing The Last Jedi. I am not sure if I read stories on AO3 before The Last Jedi, if I did, I started reading in mid 2016.

What did you think of the way Rise of Skywalker handled Rey and Kylo’s relationship?

I do not think it got enough screen time. The time consuming scavenger hunt with Poe & Finn, only having Kylo & Rey cross swords...all would have been forgiven IF Ben Solo lived or, if he HAD to die, if there was more screentime of redeemed Ben Solo AND Rey told others of Ben Solo, grieved his death, took Solo name, and ended up somewhere green.

Do you think the film understood why you, and other people, felt like Rey and Kylo had something together? Did it get their chemistry?

Given the acting between Ridley & Driver, I do believe the film makers understood the chemistry between Rey & Kylo. I also believe they FAILED to see how Kylo could become Ben Solo again and deserved to live. They did not acknowledge how his connection to Rey & her influence on him made Kylo believe that Rey trusted him and wanted a better life for him. Instead they went with "let's have them fight at every chance." It is true he was enraged at the end of TLJ but that feeling was from his perceived abandonment by Rey. Plus, TROS takes place a year later. The rage would lessen somewhat I imagine or if the rage against Rey was still so high, Kylo would have been MORE terrifying and just straight up kill Rey early in the movie. They did not understand Rey also insisted Ben do this for himself not for his mother, Rey, or Han or for power. That is why he was so upset that she did not take his hand when he offered. (The TROS story did get the "i wanted to take Ben's hand" correct.) There was also the strange scene of Rey looking happily at children. Was it an attempt to foreshadow a family with Ben? That's what it seemed like they were telling the audience but then at the end of the movie, I was left with thinking maybe Rey is now going to have two lovers and create a family with Finn & Poe.

What about the handling of Kylo’s redemption? Was it something you had to think through in your stories?

I have read MANY pieces of fan fiction on AO3, listened to Girls with Sabers & What the Force podcasts which seemed to focus on comparing Star Wars to works of great literature & myths, how Star Wars incorporates the Hero's & Heroine's Journey, and aspects of filmmaking. Given all the marketing with #ReyandKylo , #KyloandRey, the comics emphasizing the verbal (psychological) & physical abuse of Kylo, the comics showing how Ben Solo may not be responsible for the destruction of the Jedi Academy, the comics foreshadowing how Ben could survive being thrown off a cliff, the videos of little BB Ben Solo or Rolly Ben Solo (that never aired) and other items, it really seemed like the story was leading up to Bendemption. They did have Ben Solo redeem himself. I do think they had NO IDEA how to present Ben Solo to the Resistance after Palpatine is killed by Rey & Ben. They could not figure a way to do that so they just killed him off. I have read some great or good pieces of fan fiction that incorporate a trial of Ben Solo into their stories. Many were done well with Poe, Finn, & Rey coming to the defense of Ben because he helps them end the First Order. One story has Ben banished to a deserted planet for a year or two, then at the end he rejoined society where Rey was waiting for him. One has a trial that ended with a sentence of rehabilitation/probation where Rey might be the person in charge of controlling Ben. Other fics had it where Kylo is dismantling the FO from within so the Resistance can defeat them. Others have the First Order request an armistice. Another storyline I have read decided that since Ben saved the galaxy with Rey & he is Leia’s kid, he is pretty much absolved of his crimes since he will always have to atone for and live with the guilt of killing his father. The scene with Han in TROS was a great scene & did go a long way to Ben being redeemed and forgiven for his worst crime. The stabbing of Kylo, Rey’s healing of Kylo, & his tossing his saber was a great part of the movie and a good redemption arc. So that was good. Where the story lacked was the decision that Ben Solo still did not do enough so he needs to die. That was the mistake they made. They could have redeemed Ben & had him even start atoning for his crimes in the smallest way before the credits rolled IF they had a different plot than the LONG scavenger hunt.

Regarding stories after TROS, I have mainly read ‘fix-it” stories that are WIPs. The newest stories have Ben alive where he & Rey fly back to the Resistance where Rey has to protect Ben from being killed. He may be in a holding cell and discussions begin on what to do with Ben Solo. Those stories are pulling on the heart strings of “What would Leia want us to do with her only child?” and so far are resulting in sympathy for the fate of Ben Solo. I have read others that are basically have Rey telling the resistance that he can’t die or she will too or Rey is protecting Ben.

What did you think of where Rey landed at the end? There had been a lot of excitement around Star Wars having a female protagonist. Do you think she lived up to the promise of her character?

I did not like the ending. She was alone on a desert planet at a house where Luke's relatives were burned alive. She did not get a family. Well sure, she knows she is a Palpatine but from the beginning with TFA, I always felt like she wanted people around her that she was related to or had the capacity to help her create her own family. I did not like how the costume & hair reinforced Rey as a child virgin. That is where she was at the beginning of TFA. At the end of TLJ, her hair in not in her childhood style, she is wearing more 'earthy' colors showing character growth. Then with TROS, Rey regressed BACK to her childhood hairstyle and went to virginal white to show she is a 'good girl in white" and also a virgin. So she did not grow, in fact, she regressed. Her ending does not come off as the hero in white. She appears as the pure woman untainted by desire or love solely focused on protecting the galaxy. Additionally, she must be a robot because she was serene and happy as she flew away from Ben’s death. She was elated to see her Resistance friends. She was also so happy to be alone with BB-8 on a desert planet where the Skywalker Family has faced a lot of sadness. SUCH A HAPPY ENDING WITH SO MUCH HOPE. Wow, that is a lonely job for a scavenger that just wanted a family. So, girls, don't lose sight of your purity and you can be a hero if you are willing to bear the weight of that role only on your shoulders because you will have to do this alone. So Rey did not grow as a character and she did not get a family (unless you count her stealing the Skywalker family name but still alone because the last Skywalker died.)

There’s criticism of the movie that argues it’s akin to “fan fiction” and that is has too much fan service. As fans and fan-fiction writers, how do you react to that?

I have read many excellent stories that are fan fiction for Star Wars. The best fan fiction are stories that are planned, follow a plot structure, have a writer that RESEARCHED the characters, planets and ideas they were incorporating . TROS was not as good as the best fanfiction out there. It is very disappointing that some people and critics are excusing TROS by saying it is fan fiction. I disagree with that. If "fan service" means throw as many planets as we can into the story, add random things that are never fleshed out in the story, have a movie full of action with too many quick cuts with a lack of dialogue, and add a bunch of ships from the larger SW universe, then yes, the movie was fan service. What happened with just making a good movie? A good movie would have been acceptable. A great movie would have been wonderful. We were given a mess of movie that killed off THE LAST SKYWALKER (Ben) with no acknowledgement, reduced Hux to a very minor character when he could have been Kylo's main adversary, and Rey takes the name Skywalker with no explanation. Strangely, Terrio implied the sequel trilogy was a set of movies about the Skywalker Twins and they are now so happy to be Force Ghosts with their sabers buried on Tatooine. Does anyone believe that when Leia tells Han to “bring our son home” she means she wants to meet Ben in Force Ghost Heaven soon? One could argue that TFA was Han's film, TLJ was Luke's film , and TROS was Leia's film. That became difficult to accomplish with Carrie fisher's death. PLUS, WHY EVEN HAVE THE VILLAIN BE THE LAST SKYWALKER if that character wasn't supposed to even be a big part of the film? So confusing & disappointing, especially since JJ made Ben Solo into Kylo Ren. If he did not want Kylo/Ben to play an important role as The Last Skywalker, why didn’t he just make Hux the bad guy all along? The only conclusion I can come to is the sequel trilogy was always intended to be a tragedy like the prequel trilogy to teach kids about tragedy, disappointment, death, the importance of mortal sacrifice for your sins even if you are mentally and physically abused. (Anakin & Ben were both psychologically manipulated.) What a way to teach a moral lesson about trust, family, friendship, and hope. Kinda hard to see those messages as the credits rolled on The Rise of Skywalker.

Are you still writing any Star Wars fanfic? Tell us about it! (Don't forget your Ao3 handle!)

I am a reader only.

I will mention that I am almost convinced that all the Terrio comments about Skywalker Twins, special effects personnel saying they were never asked to make Ben a Force Ghost, the three month delay for the TROS artbook, and so little information about Ben Solo’s ‘death” is LucasFilm admitting that Ben is not dead and they will do another Rey movie or a Solo movie called "The Resurrection of Ben Solo." Who knows if Driver or Ridley will EVER do another SW movie, though. Animated movie/TV show? A miniseries for Disney+...”The Search for Solo.”

Thank you Bonnie Swims

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chaotic-undying-loki · 4 years

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I really hate aggressive, hateful, bullying, and petty fans in fandoms. Tldr, can't edit, on phone but feeling my annoyance hard

SPOILERS AHEAD FOR THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

Also, kinda long, feel free to scroll past, I'm just dealing with the stress of negative fans toxifying fandoms, on either side. Also if you don't like negative critiques of Kylo, feel free to scroll.

(on phone, can't cut it off, sorry for length, or typos)

Often there's two sides, half the time those two sides are ship-focused, though not always, it can be character focused or narrative focused. And I try to be, and mostly am, reasonable, patient, and respectful of people's opinions.

Sometimes my opinions might sound as if they're judgmental if a character, but I do my best to deliver my opinion honestly but without it seeming aggressive. Sometimes I might even with-hold an opinion to not offend or start a fight (I hate TR now, but have friends who love it, that I rp with, so I keep most opinions to myself and try to stay respectful when, if ever, I share my opinion).

I don't like people, on either side, ie that share my opinion or stand with the opposite (over a ship, character, it any content), who will attack in any way, shape or form; calling people idiots, generalizing in misogynistic/sexist/racist/or any other close minded fashion that is often in accurate and or offensive, and just belittling someone who just happens to have a different opinion (sometimes in a respectful fashion, sometimes aggressive).

I've been through so many fandoms with such arguments over character morality, character treatment, how a character translates into an example of toxic real life people or not, if so and so should be together or single or with that other character. I've had my aggressive days, fewer than others, but I'll admit to my doing. But it's not worth attacking and I'm constantly working towards bring better, expressing my opinions and views freely without arguing and attacking.

But I also I'm beginning to learn to stick to that fandom advice/fact of "you can like things, and not support all the bad; you can be interested in a character and not have to feel guilty or feel you have to defend every part of them. Fandom isn't black and white, and it shouldn't always be a responsibility" (not to say you shouldn't be aware of how things can be offensive or harmful, but not Quit Culture just because you feel guilty).

All this leads me to stating that I'm sitting here, trying to figure my opinions of a character without ignoring all the realities of their good nor their bad, and worrying I'd offend friends by having a positive opinion or negative opinion, and in trying to scan tags I'm Tumblr, certain fandom members are making me feel fucking disgusted.

So, I'm gonna say, I have a complicated opinion of Kylo Ren/Ben Solo from the recent Star Wars trilogy. I'll list it like this, a 1st watch and Reflection phase of each movie.

TFA; 1st Watch,--love the actor, so only minimally biased. But I liked the conflicting factor of who he was, where he came from, where he could go. Reflection-- after a while, the appeal half wore off, and given the hidden/limited backstory to his fall, half the fandom assumed he was influenced and wronged with no choice, or that he was deeply loved and cared for kid that turned his back on so much light for the legacy of a grandfather that he should have known wasn't all that Darkness he was trying to become and so he becomes a killer and leaves his family behind, for bullshit.

TLJ; 1st Watch--clearly struggling and growing in his desires and conflicts, may or may not have done fucked up shit to his fellow students and just continues to be a raging lil whatever, and then we have the Rey connection which, albeit out of his control, seems to come off stalky and invasive and forced. Just, very angry, little change other than expressing he's conflicted and masking it with further rage and aggression. Reflection--basically felt the same afterwards. But from here on out, I hear fro others or notice myself that he seemed to fit the tormented but actually spoiled an whiny, angry nice guy archetype, bordering on tyrant student if not actually so. My opinion was lowered, I didn't try to analyze like I do Loki, for fear I'd get sympathetic for a character who's too morally fucked for it to be okay.

TRoS; 1st Watch--confliction grows, he seems like an angry, lost robot, alone, just trying to regain control in whatever fashion he can, trying to stay on top, find answers. Will admit, what I had wandered and hadn't had evidence to before, that his evil master (thought to be Snoke but really Palpatine) was manipulating him through Anakin/Vader, then Smoke, changes my views w decent amount (as does some novelisation reveals, I think, that state the original trio kept the truth of who Vader was from Ben for years and such a lie, when growing up believing one a valiant Jedi and the other a powerful and mostly evil sith saved at the end of his life was surely confusing (but this is one of those conflicting facts of, Was this always the truth and plan or was it added in for sympathy? Not gonna argue)). Then we have one scene, a battle between 'Good' and 'Evil', he's trying to kill Rey for Palpatine or for himself, can't really say. He is stabbed, deadly wound, saved, and it's like a painful rebirth, he speaks to his father, and sheds Kylo, going to join Rey as Ben and out a stop to it once and for all. For all my conflicted feelings before and still standing by such, seeing that last scene had me hyped and crying, I thought it was all amazing, and he made many good actions to balance against his good. But still not enough, and I'm tired of the Villain Dies to Earn Redemption arc, good or badbor misunderstood, these characters should be able to live, pay for their crimes, and grow from it. But also, deeply against reylo for personal and none personal reasons, I found the kiss sweet and heartbreaking, it was a soft moment that made me feel (I prefer her with Finn, if not the impossible Finn and Poe, but I understand why reylo is shipped). Reflection--basically the same, except I've learned that there was implied neglect, assumption of evil, lying about his family, and an Evil Dark Lord whispering in his ear as probably both Snoke AND fake Vader, and he's still fucked up for all the death, pain, and torment he caused that most of it could have not be necassary. But maybe I'm fucked up for now suddenly wanting to analyze and understand him and for thinking he deserved to live his redemption, not die and earn it.

But whatever. I've decided I'm gonna RP, and analyze. And I keep sifting through Tumblr for feels post or just pics of Ben, not Kylo. And there's a lot of Reylo, I either admire it and move on.

But then there's posts trying to demean other characters in twisted, if not cruel ways. Example 2; Finn kept taking Rey's hand on Jakkuu without her consent, but Kylo always asked, such a gentleman!! = ...Finn grabbed her hand while they were running, it was a protective instinct, not in any way trying to violate her. For one, Kylos reach was a 'please take my hand and assist in making the universe cry while we spread evil' so it's not a healthy comparison, not to mention, Kylo actually violated her, using the force on her body, making her unconcious, kidnapping her, and attempting to torture her and invade her mind. I'm sorry, there's no arguing who has violated her. Example 2; referring to Finn, in just a simple small statement if who deserved her, as FN2187 = Nice, so you just stated you're an aggressive, hateful shipper AND a racist willing to use a black characters literal slave title.

Like, I'm just trying to look for pics or meta that relate to what I'm feeling, but the characters I love more than Ben, and sometimes the actors (Rey, Finn/John, Poe/Oscaar) get attacked or demeaned, or called bullies for doing less than what said fans actually say and do on a daily.

I'm just here for Kylo/Ben, but got people being toxic fucking bullies while defending him or vying for his worthiness and happiness, which makes me disgusted for even considering interest in him.

And it shouldn't. And it won't. But I'll just say this, you people make fandoms like a fucking fire pit. Just here for warmth, maybe to admire the fire, but you don't handle it properly and he burn others in the process, while making others turn around and fear the fire.

So please. Just...chill. Be respectful. Or feel free being the aggressive assholes that making the thing you love into something toxic and unlovable.

#tros spoilers #star wars spoilers #the rise of skywalker #the rise of skywalker spoilers #star wars #fandom discourse #tldr #sorry for the tldr #kylo ren meta #ben solo beta

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ageofgeek · 4 years

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Guys...they did the impossible. I liked Rise of Skywalker! They ended it well, and there were a bunch of parts that I REALLY liked (and really only a few parts that I was "meh" about).

SPOILERS UNDER THE READ MORE!

So! Let’s go through the main reveals/plot points and then I’ll go into more specifics. Rey is Palpatine’s granddaughter - I’ll be honest, I did NOT expect that. I think after TFA came out, I reblogged a gifset that included all of the Rey parentage theories, and I was like, “lol what? who the hell thinks that Rey is a Palpatine? wtf?” And now it’s canon? Honestly, it’s the same kind of batshit reveal that I’d expect from Star Wars, so I’m kinda okay with it.

Kylo Ren’s redemption was...not as terrible as I thought it would be. As y’all know, I am very anti-Kylo and anti-R*ylo, so I thought I was going to Suffer in this movie. But I was surprised by how I felt about it - only mildly irritated instead of bursting with rage. I still think he doesn’t really have a personality other than 1) whiny 2) manipulative and 3) emo, but I did like the scene where he hallucinates Han and repeats his line from TFA (”I know what I have to do but I don’t know if I have the strength to do it”). That being said, it is still highly questionable to have Kylo’s redemption built on Leia’s death/sacrifice for her son (it reads a little too much like fridging a woman to save a male character), but I will excuse the filmmakers for that because they didn’t have much footage of Carrie Fisher to work with, so there wasn’t too much they could do if they wanted to commit to not digitally reconstructing her (which I am glad they did not do).

I digress (I’ll talk about Leia in the next paragraphs). I did like that Kylo just showed up to the final fight with Palpatine in like, a henley and slacks. It seemed like a very Skywalker thing to do, lol. Also, thank God that he died. Like, damn - I see all these Kylo stans being so upset at his death, and I’m just like? His character purposefully paralleled Vader - a parallel which I think was weak, at best, but still, a parallel - and you thought that he wasn’t going to die? Also, what would have happened if he had lived? Oh right, he would’ve gone to prison for the rest of his life and not gotten married to Rey and have kids, lol, what universe are you living in? As it was, I think that they did his death well - like Vader, they had him sacrifice himself for somebody that he loved (although the bond between Rey and Kylo is, once again, much more questionable to me than the bond between Luke and Vader/Anakin). And like Vader, he turned back to the Light because of his family (Leia and Han). Thinking about the 2 other ways Ben’s character arc could’ve gone (1) he doesn’t turn back to the Light or 2) he turns back to the Light but doesn’t die), this was the only satisfying way to end his arc (at least in my opinion).

That being said, I REALLY could’ve done without that kiss. Like, really? You just had to force it into an unnecessary romance? You couldn’t have just had them hug or cradle each other, platonically? Both of the climactic emotional moments of the previous trilogies were completely non-romantic, and both focused on love of FAMILY - Luke cradling Anakin, his father, as he dies, and Obi-Wan being forced to “kill” Anakin, his brother. It would’ve been so much better if they had ended this one with Rey cradling Ben, her brother, as he died. But no, we can’t have nice things because heteronormativity exists. *sigh*

But, we’re moving on. I thought that they handled Leia’s character really respectfully - I think Carrie Fisher would’ve been proud. I’m still bitter and sad that we only got one scene in the entire sequel trilogy with Luke and Leia (the OG Skywalkers and you only had them in one fucking scene together? Goddammit), but that force ghost scene at the end with the two of them made me happy - it was a bittersweet happiness, but happiness all the same (also, since it is canon that force ghosts get to chill and rest and be happy in the afterlife, I am more than happy with that ending. It also makes me want to write a ton of fanfiction. Stay tuned for that). I also burst into tears when Leia died and Maz stood near her bedside and whispered, “Goodbye, Princess.” Wow, that did things to my heart!

Ian McDiarmid continues to be a goddamn delight to watch as Palpatine, and he was genuinely creepy and horrific in this movie. I still feel like bringing Palpatine back to life (albeit in zombified form) was a real slap in the face to the perfect ending of ROTJ (and it especially cheapens Anakin’s role as the Chosen One, which is really a slap in the face for me), but they did it as best they could. I think I would’ve preferred if Palpatine was in spirit form in this movie, trying to come back to life by using Rey as a conduit or a body? Something like that would’ve honored the end of ROTJ a bit more while also bringing him back as the big villain.

All in all, I liked TROS much more than I hated it, especially since I had pretty low expectations going in. I’ve talked about the big “reveals” and moments so far, but I really liked the little things in this movie! For example:

Rey, Finn, and Poe were a full-on OT3 trio in this movie, and I loved it! The mission to find the wayfinder in the desert? Adventures! Chase scenes! Exploring! Jokes! I loved it - it was definitely giving me “Tatooine in ROTJ” vibes. They all kind of wandered apart in the second half of the movie, but they came back together at the end for that hug!! Which made me cry buckets!! (Poe holding Rey’s hand as they both hug Finn??? Wow, OT3 goals, they are so in love)

Chewie and Lando were great! Lando felt a little random in this movie (no explanation as to where he was? No mention of Han’s death?), but I always appreciate Billy Dee Williams, so I’m not complaining.

In that same vein, WEDGE CAMEO!!! They got Denis Lawson back, and right after I got back on my Wedge/Luke wagon! Damn, I wish we could’ve seen more of him (maybe there are some deleted scenes??? Listen, I neED MORE WEDGE IN MY LIFE).

And again in the same vein as cameos, um, that Jedi voice scene??? Listen, ok, hearing Hayden’s voice again was more than I ever thought we would get, I was sO EMOTIONAL, I heard him and almost immediately burst into tears. And they got Ewan and Liam Neeson and Samuel L. Jackson(!!!), and the voice actors for Ahsoka and Luminara and WOW I am super emotional, that was hands-down the best scene in the movie for me. I was so happy to hear all of them - the acknowledgement of the prequels and the rest of the Jedi, FINALLY, after 2 previous sequel movies that didn’t give a shit about them. FINALLY we got this. And you know what? I would’ve been even happier if they had shown their faces, but I will take it. I will fucking take it. (That being said: Oh, Disney Gods - please let Hayden return for flashbacks and/or hallucinations in the Obi-Wan series. Please. It’s all I want in life).

The confirmation that Leia trained as a Jedi and had a lightsaber - I almost full-on clapped in the theaters at that scene. And I loved the training sequence/flashback that they had with Luke and Leia - they actually showed them sparring and I loved it so much! It was amazing - why couldn’t they have included that earlier? (Cue me singing: “We could’ve had it allll!!!!!”).

Luke’s Force Ghost appearance really redeemed his character from the beating it got in TLJ. It was a short scene, but it felt so much more like the Luke Skywalker I know and love, and I’m glad that they gave Mark Hamill a chance to really play Luke again.

The end scene with the Resistance coming to help. It felt a little Endgame-ish to me (then again, that was arguably the best scene in Endgame), but we definitely came full circle from TLJ, where the Resistance was basically abandoned on Crait and nobody answered their distress call. In TROS, everybody answered their distress call.

I also like that C3PO had a bit more of a role! I really love R2 and C3PO, and I like that they kept to Lucas’ original vision of the two of them being the only ones to be in all 9 films. I also deeply appreciate R2 being with Leia when she died - that felt incredibly moving and appropriate, and also coming full circle from Leia’s first scene with R2 in ANH.

Finn being confirmed as Force-sensitive! Finally! Fucking 4 years since TFA and we finally got it - hallelujah.

I think that’s about it! Honestly, I’m just so high off of the endorphins of hearing Anakin and Obi-Wan and all of the Jedi again! That scene made the entire movie worth it for me.

But this is the end of the Skywalker Saga, and that makes me really sad. The one thing that I am really upset about with regards to this movie is that it literally ends the Skywalkers. At least if you end the original 6 movies with ROTJ, the implication is that Leia and/or Luke will continue the Skywalker lineage, and they will continue to be leaders and jedi and heroes - but when you add in the sequel trilogy...it just ends. Anakin’s grandson turns to the dark side and ends up (indirectly) killing Luke, Leia, and then himself. And THAT’S how the Skywalkers end? After the tragedy that was Anakin (and Padme’s) life, history just repeats itself and the family line ends? That’s...depressing. But I think that the sequel trilogy, in a way, is still very distant from the other 2 trilogies - in a way, it reminded me of a weird, high-budget delve into the EU that is technically canon, but doesn’t feel like it’s canon???

Either way, I’m happy to accept the sequel trilogy as pseudo-canon, but still apart from the original 6 movies. I’m glad that we got to see some, if not all, of the OT characters again. I wish we could’ve gotten more - out of the old and new characters - but what we got was okay, and I enjoyed the ride.

And now, I’m just going to go cry over the Skywalker family and read force ghost fanfiction :’)

#tros #tros spoilers #star wars #sequel trilogy #mine #rant #resistance era

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forsythiaas · 4 years

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TROS reaction + rant

Spoilers for the Rise of Skywalker

Okay first the short section: Things I liked about the movie

1. Oscar Isaac’s butt looking great.

2. Jannah is amazing, wish she had been introduced earlier.

3. Cinematography on the old death star scene battle was stunning and felt like something we hadn’t seen before.

4. John Boyega is great in this, even though he doesn’t get a ton of character development. Love the fact that he’s force-sensitive. (I know he didn’t love his character’s plot line in TLJ, but for me, that movie gave him way more interiority and let him be the one that someone falls in love with. In this one, he does a lot more running around, just shouting “REY.” )

Things I didn’t like because they didn’t work but not because they’re innately wrong

1. Rey being a Palpatine. I would have preferred that they stuck with she is a nobody, but I don’t absolutely hate the idea of her being a Palpatine. In some ways, it’s sort of a cool idea that a Palpatine is the one who gets to continue the true Skywalker legacy. Her and Ben together prove that choosing the light or the dark isn’t a predestination sort of thing determined by your ancestry.

But I don’t think they handled it all that well in this movie. There is no real explanation for it, the way Rey learns about it is odd, they don’t devote enough time for us to really understand how she feels about it, it retcons a lot of other stuff, etc. JJ should have stuck with the decision Rian made.

2. Leia’s ending. I know Carrie Fisher’s death meant that we were never going to get the send-off she really deserved. Yet her death scene in this felt oddly bland (I was much more emotional at her flying across the stars in TLJ). I like the idea that she sacrificed herself to bring Ben back to the light, but I don’t understand how that even worked. Some people are saying that she gave her life force to him, some people are saying that she used it to project the memory of Han. Either way, it didn’t make sense to me.

And the scenes that she were in were stilted enough that I think perhaps the movie should have just opened with her funeral like some people said. The only moment when I really got emotional about her death was when Chewie broke down.

3. Ben/Rey Romance - Okay, the kiss I actually did sort of hate. But honestly, we saw Rey being a full-on corpse like two seconds before. Would you really want to kiss someone, then? And while the actors have good chemistry and the characters have always had...sexual tension, let’s call it...it never felt explicitly romantic. Especially because Ben is a WAR CRIMINAL. I get that they sort of try to separate Kylo Ren and Ben in this movie, but to me, they’re still the same person. Also, at the beginning it seemed like they were trying to say that Palaptine manipulated him from the beginning, but again, that explanation is not fleshed out enough.

I was all for a Ben Solo redemption arc in this movie, but I think it being paired with a romantic connection between the two actually weakens the whole thing. I like the idea that they’re equal within the force, but it definitely felt out of character for Rey to kiss him.

Things I HATED

1. The sidelining of Rose Tico. This I could go on about for ages. In TLJ, we meet Rose, and she is just as devoted to the Resistance cause as Poe, smart, romantic, tough. I love that she is an engineer, not technically “special” in anyway, but she brings a real-life knowledge about how war really works behind-the-scenes. The fact that she’s grieving her sister in that film also adds so much emotional weight to the movie. For once, we see the impact that war has on an ordinary family.

I wanted Rose joining the gang. I wanted Rey and Rose interacting, becoming friends. I wanted Rose’s engineering knowledge to come in and save the day at a crucial point. Even if she occupied more of a Lando in RotJ-like role (separate but definitely important) to keep the “trio” integrity intact (an obsession that JJ seems to have which I don’t quite understand because he didn’t even bother to introduce Poe and Rey in the first movie), I’d be okay, but for her to have like five lines? Shameful.

The fact that this movie also never acknowledges Rose’s confession about loving Finn really angers me. Finn and Poe’s (very straight) romantic feelings are played for laughs in this, yes, but for Rose’s to just be completely ignored? Even if you thought her feelings for Finn came out of left field in TLJ, you have to admit it was a completely brave move to confess, an act that Finn himself can’t pull off in this one. Fine, don’t have them be together. Have her be bitter about it, have things be awkward between them, show that she still loves him, at least give us some acknowledgement that that confession actually mattered.

2. General writing sloppiness - Macguffins galore. The jumping around constantly. Characters making sacrifices that don’t matter at all. Some truly terrible dialogue. This felt like 5 movies stuffed into one.

Also not entirely related, but Poe is legitimately cruel to C3PO at certain points in this movie, and it’s totally played for laughs. Droid rights!

3. The fact that the queer representation was like two seconds long. Hey, did you guys know Poe is like super straight? And Finn is like super straight? And they constantly are trying to get the attention of the girl they like. Oh yeah, Commander D’Arcy is gay, but you’re not interested in meeting her partner or learning her name or anything like that. Let’s have Poe hit on Zorri one more time.

If we couldn’t have Finn and Poe get together, I was at least hoping there would be one successful romance in the movie. I think it would have been meaningful for the first black lead in a Star Wars movie to have found love (preferably with Rose, but I would have actually been okay if they hinted at a successful Finn/Rey romance in the end).

Also, the hug between the three of them (Poe, Rey, and Finn) at the end didn’t really work for me. Compare that one to Luke’s hugs with Leia and Han in RotJ, and it falls completely flat. I like the idea that Rey has a found family, but to be honest, it doesn’t even seem like her and Poe like each other that much in this movie.

4. NO ANAKIN - Anakin really should have been the thread that tied all three trilogies together. Up until this trilogy, he was the main character of the whole saga. He was the literal chosen one. To bring Palpatine back but not use Anakin at all or even really talk about his legacy makes his sacrifice seem completely meaningless. I’m not at all convinced that Palpatine won’t just return in another 15 years or that a new Empire/First Order won’t just appear in another year or so. There isn’t even any mention of restoring balance to the force, the whole thing that Anakin was destined to do. We’re back to Sith bad, Jedi good.

#the rise of skywalker #rise of skywalker #RoS #star wars #rise of skywalker spoilers #RoS spoiler #star wars spoilers #rey #poe #finn #poe dameron #kylo ren #ben solo

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