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meltthefrozenheart · 1 year

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I don't think I've stressed enough how Frozen 2 relies so much on the events of the first movie both as callbacks, but also as plot points

Anna: I don't worry, because, well, I've you and Elsa and Kristoff ... and Sven and the gates are open wide ... and I'm not alone anymore.

Olaf: Hans?

Elsa: Unredeemable monster?

Kristoff: Greatest mistake of your life?

Olaf: Wouldn't even kiss you?

(Sven rings the bell)

Anna: Villain!

Everyone: Oh!

Olaf: We all kind of got it.

Elsa: There's this ... I just don't wanna mess things up.

Anna: What things? You are doing great. Oh Elsa, when are you going to yourself the way I see you?

Anna: Excuse me, I climbed the North Mountain, survived the frozen heart and saved you from by ex-boyfriend, and did it all without powers, so, you know, I'm coming.

Kristoff: Remember our first trip like this, when I said you had to be crazy to wanna marry a man you've just met?

Olaf: Bet you're wondering who we are and why we're here. It's really quite simple. It began with two sisters. One born with magical powers. One born powerless. Their love for snowmen, infinite. (As Elsa) 'Anna, no, too high!'. Blast! 'Mama! Papa! Help!'. Slam! Doors shutting everywhere. Sisters torn apart. Well, at least they have their parents. Their parents are dead. (As Anna) 'Oh. Oh, hi. I'm Anna. I'll marry a man I' just met'. Elsa is gonna blow! Snow! Snow! Aah, run! Magic pulses through my snowflakes. I live. Ice palace for one. Ice palace for one. (As Elsa) 'Get out, Anna'. Pew! Pew! (As Anna) 'My heart'. (As Pabbie) 'Only an act of true love can save you'. (As Hans) 'Here's a true love kiss. You are not worth it. Guess what? I'm the bad guy'. And Anna freezes to death forever. Then she unfreezes! Oh, and then Elsa woke up the magical spirits and we were forced out of our kingdom. Now our only hope is to find the truth about the past but we don't have a clue how to do that except Elsa hearing voices, so that's going for us. Any questions? I think they got it.

Mattias: What did happen to your parents?

Anna: Our parents ship went down in Southern Sea six years ago.

King Runeard Memory: Magic makes people feel too powerful. Too entitled. It makes them think they can defy the will of a king.

Elsa: That is not what magic does. That's just your fear. Fear is what can't be trusted.

Personally, this leads me to believe that, in our wait for Frozen 3, we still need to take into consideration the personal journeys of these characters, most importantly the nature of the obstacles they faced in this sequel, where it lead them, but also how it connects with what they experienced in the past.

#Frozen 2 #Frozen 3 #Anna #Elsa #Kristoff #Olaf #Sven #Lieutenant Mattias #Hans #Prince Hans #Agnarr #Iduna #King Agnarr #Queen Iduna #King Runeard #Frozen

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disneyanddisneyships · 2 years

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Chapter 13! @gyubby99

At the end of the day, the group headed inside for family game night. Elsa, Anna, and Kristoff were on the couch while Jack sat on the floor just below Elsa. "Okay Anna! Your turn!" Kristoff exclaimed. Anna got up, taking her word from a basket sven was holding. She began acting out something scary. Guesses were flying around before Olaf said "hans". Anna perked up and waved her hand at the group. "Unredeemable monster!" "Greatest mistake of your life!" "Wouldn't even kiss you!" Time was up. "Villain!" Anna exclaimed. "Ohhh!" The entire group stated at once. "We all kind of got it," Olaf muttered. Before getting up, "Okay. Lightning round, boys against girls!" Olaf stated before taking his word. Jack stayed silent as Kristoff got almost all of the words Olaf acted out. "I dont think Olaf should get to rearrange!" Anna stated as she glared at Kristoff. "Doesn't matter! This is gonna be a sitch! Two sisters one mind," Anna stated. Elsa was up this time. When she got her word she made a few awkward movements, not entirely sure on how to act it out. "Uh, nothing! Air! Tree! People! Treeple! Wait that's not a word... oh, shovelboy! Teeth? Oh! Doing the dishes!" Anna exclaimed one after one. "Polar bear!" Olaf shouted. "Hey!" "Sorry," Elsa sighed, she was not good at this. Anna continued yelling out words.

Ah ah ah ahhh

The voice again. Elsa looked up in worry. Jack looked at her curiously, sensing something was wrong. "Oh! Uh, alarmed! Distracted! Uh.. worried? Panicking? Disturbed!" Elsas time was up. "Oh come on! You definitely look disturbed!" Anna shouted before slumping down onto the couch. "We won," Kristoff stated, a bit smugly. "Rematch?" Anna asked as she got up and walked to her sister. "Oh uh.. actually I think I'll turn in," Elsa stated with a smile. Jack got up to walk with elsa. "Are you okay?" Anna asked, a bit worried. "Yeah just.. just tired... goodnight!" Elsa replied before walking out of the door. Jack followed. Jack gave Kristoff a wink before leaving. Kristoff turned to Anna nervously.

"Hey, was everything okay back there?" Jack asked as he and Elsa made their way to her room. "I guess... it's just... You're gonna think I'm crazy," Elsa replied as she hugged herself with her arms and looked down at the ground. Jack opened her bedroom door for her before going inside with her. "I could never think that, snowflake," he replied as he followed her to stand at her window after she had gotten her mother's scarf and wrapped it around herself. "I keep hearing a voice.... and... I have this feeling inside that I'm meant to do more, be more... but I don't want to just.. up and leave," Elsa explained. Jack wrapped his arms around her, his chin resting on her head. "If you feel like you need to find yourself, there is nothing wrong with that. I will support you in whatever you need to do, as long as you take me with you," Jack reassured before kissing the top of elsas head. "Thanks Jack," Elsa muttered as she looked up at him. A knock sounded on the door in a rhythmic way in which Elsa knew all too well. "Come in!" Elsa stated. Anna's head popped in. "Yep. Somethings wrong," Anna stated. "With you?" Elsa asked. "No, with you. You're wearing mother's scarf, you do that when somethings wrong," Anna replied. Jack kissed elsas cheek before walking out of the room, leaving the girls to their conversation.

#jelsa #elsa #frozen #frozen 2 #rotg #jack frost #rise of the guardians #disney #queen elsa #snowtp #jelsa fandom #jelsa fanfic #elsa of arendelle #disney frozen #princess anna #royalfrost

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damien-westergaard-bjorgman · 4 years

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HANSWEEK DAY 4 "UNREDEEMABLE MONSTER"...

...but are you sure he is such a monster?

Horses can feel human energy. They can feel the goodness of the heart. If Hans is a monster? Why Sitron made friends with him?

*The kitty's name is Loki he's Hans' new friend*

@hansweek

The Hans' look inspired by Prince Philip's outfit.

#team hans #disney hans #hans #hans westergaard #prince hans #Frozen hans #prince hans of the southern isles #hans of the southern isles #southern isles #Monster #Sitron #Horse #Loki #Kitty #Prince philip #sleeping beauty #hansweek2020 #Hansweek #Unredeemable monster

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unredeemablemonster · 4 years

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yo! ✌🏻I’m @zenzenzence and this is one of my many sideblogs, dedicated to Hans Westergaard, Prince of the Southern Isles, and to the ship Helsa/Iceburns from Frozen. I sometimes reblog hans/helsa content to my main blog too, but I thought I’d make a fanblog dedicated to Hans :)

#helsa #iceburns #hans westergaard #hans #prince hans #unredeemable monster #monster.txt #feel free to follow my main too if you’d like!#zenzenzence

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magentacravat · 4 years

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Personal Issues

Does Disney or the Frozen crew have some kind of personal issues about someone like Hans or something?

Because after i saw the scene of Elsa said something "Irredeemable Monster" to Hans in the charade, didn't she look at her ownself and her own doing in the first Frozen movie before?

Kind of Irony for me 😬

I don't know if that out of her character or not, or she just copied what her sister nicknamed him for his action, or that's really her personal opinion for him (which is worse), but still that she was the one who said that while she was the one also make that trouble in the first place was surely an IRONY.

Like, she was the one who froze the kingdom, run away, trapped her people and the dignitaries in there to slowly froze to death, almost kill 3 people directly (including her sister) and stated that she couldn't bring summer back. What choice do you think Hans have?

I know what he did was wrong to betray them, but.... come one.... use some logic there.

And yeah, Elsa sounds like a hypocrite there FOR ME. Geez, look at yourself in the mirror for self awareness at least, not to make another dresses and swayed your hair only, Elsa.

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moviegroovies · 4 years

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a timeline:

hans gets sent back to the southern isles and sentenced to manual labor in retribution for being an embarrassment to his family name.

he starts spending his nights studying every book on magic he can get his hands on, eventually succeeding in teaching himself fire magic

the events of fro2 take place in this window

eventually hans’ power grows to the point where he decides to fight back rather than allow himself to be thrown around. in the process, he razes the castle, killing his father and about half of his older brothers and anyone else who gets in his way and leaves, the skin on his arms barbecued for his efforts.

he sets off for arendelle

while he’d been undergoing his punishment, hans hadn’t had any access to contemporary gossip. when he makes it to arendelle, feverish from his exertions and sluggish with infection, he nearly goes up in an inferno when he overhears that he’s come on, get this: the day of queen anna’s wedding.

he’s so fucking mad. if he had just bided his time, he would have become king without even having to kill elsa? silly, frivolous anna just had that opportunity fall into her lap?

he crashes the wedding, dizzy with infirmary and a little drunk on top of it all. for all his pomp and circumstance and theatrics, hans only manages to fire off one solid fireball between anna and kristoff before collapsing.

kristoff orders him taken away; it’s the one royal decree he ever feels 100% comfortable making.

(elsa wasn’t at the wedding, which is the only reason hans survives that stunt)

he’s taken down to the dungeons and put in a cell where there’s nothing to burn. in a delirious state, hans just starts trying to burn himself up, but a guard catches on and then he goes from burning to being water tortured.

anna and kristoff come down to the dungeons a few days later to see him being waterboarded. even they (particularly kristoff) are a little disturbed about this.

they decide to have him moved to a room in the castle. he’s in and out of consciousness, but a pitcher of water is kept by his bed to pour over his head if he tries to flame up. eventually, he’s conscious enough that he’s eating, at least, and anna and kristoff cautiously go to his bedside.

he sees them and tries to light up; kristoff soaks him. he sits there dripping pathetically.

basically they just want answers from him. why is he back? how is he doing this, with the fire? what does he want?

other than revenge, he doesn’t really know what he wants. to die, maybe. anna is upset by the whole conversation, but kristoff stays around and kind of takes over in nursing him back to health because he recognizes that hans is being treated badly. hans hates this... but sort of imprints on kristoff during this time. he’s like a morality pet, or a lifeline.

kristoff does not want this responsibility. anna doesn’t like it either.

hans recovers enough to start paying attention to the world around him and watches anna’s rule very carefully. he comes to understand that she’s... genuinely a very good and capable queen. she’s the kind of ruler his idealistic younger self dreamed he’d be, and hans starts to realize that he would have been responsible for taking her out of the world.

the only times kristoff is ever truly harsh with him, rather than just sarcastic, is when he tries to talk about anna. however, through the development, he starts to realize that hans’ mentality is truly fucked up; he legitimately doesn’t understand kindness, especially not when it’s directed at him. he tries to copy kristoff’s mannerisms and isn’t sure who he really is when he’s not mirroring someone else’s actions. kristoff’s reaction is basically “cool motive, still murder,” but it starts making more sense at least.

meanwhile, the southern isles have begun to recover enough from the blow he dealt to organize revenge. they send a search party after him; elsa gets word of this search through the elements and rushes back to arendelle. she thinks she’s there to warn anna, but once she gets back to arendelle and discovers that hans is inside the castle...

she’s out for blood.

anna only narrowly stops her from murdering hans in cold blood, and elsa is basically outraged at the fact that anna is protecting this asshole. anna just explains that she doesn’t want him dead on her account. he’s not worth it.

elsa doesn’t understand, but she acquiesces.

hans doesn’t understand either. anna comes into his room, and they talk for the first time since he was sick. he needs to know why she didn’t let elsa kill him or freeze his heart or what have you; she shakes her head sadly.

“hans... i wish there had been someone out there who loved you.”

anna sort of understands how hans is a product of his upbringing, with what she’s heard from kristoff. she doesn’t forgive him, but she isn’t actively angry anymore. she kind of pities him.

Hans Will Now Die For You

kristoff starts bringing hans with him when he gets out of the castle, and hans appreciates it, even if he just ends up cold and soggy in the sled. he uses his fire powers for a constructive purpose for the first time, building them a campfire. kristoff gets hans to tell him about that, where those powers came from. hans has never been listened to before.

his feelings get the best of him. before he even realizes he’s doing it, he’s kissing kristoff.

kristoff very briefly kisses him back, but pushes away. he can’t do that to anna. of course. hans nearly tries to run off in embarrassment, but kristoff keeps him there, grabbing his arm and holding him back because no matter how awkward the situation has become, he’ll freeze to death in the cold, and he’s still technically a prisoner.

when they get back to arendelle, kristoff is feeling confused and heady, and he’s torn between wanting to tell anna and needing anna to never, ever know, and he would like some space to think this over, thankyouverymuch, but instead, they walk back into a diplomatic landmine.

great.

a servant meets them at the gate and tells them that anna’s orders are to hide hans immediately; she’s telling the southern isles diplomats that that haven’t heard from him, haven’t seen him, and will prosecute if they do. it very nearly works, except hans accidentally runs straight into one of his brothers while they’re leaving, and the southern isles decide that arendelle has been protecting him (just like they protected their snow queen!) and they declare war. soon enough, weselton declares war in solidarity.

they hold a council. elsa says that she alone can easily fend off the armies; someone else points out that if they use her magic to win, arendelle will be at war forever because people who fear her will never see her side of the conflict. anna refuses to let her people die in a war, especially one over hans (no offense). he agrees, and then tells them the obvious solution: just give him up. let him be brought back to the southern isles and killed or tortured. kristoff immediately objects but anna sees where he’s coming from. she... agrees.

hans admires her pragmatism, and is impressed with her nerve. he really does allow himself to be chained and soaked, and now that he has that horrible knowledge of what it’s like to care about someone, he’s willing to go so far as to actually let himself be turned over and killed...

except, they get there to trade him off (without elsa, who went to warn the northuldra, just in case, because she knows that getting involved w/ a war like this one that might break out would be devastating for them), and kristoff sees some sort of sniper lying in wait, aiming for anna, even after she’s given them hans. they never meant to let this go peacefully after all, they just wanted a convenient excuse to wipe out mysterious arendelle with its magic in addition to cleaning up the loose thread of their traitorous brother.

kristoff shouts to warn anna, but he can’t get there in time to save her. hans, however, can; he burns so hot that he incinerates the ropes holding him, even wet, then reduces the arrow coming for her to ash. he stands between her and the snipers like a guard dog, and snarls.

the armies of the southern isles and weselton emerge from behind some hills. anna only brought a small group of her guards; they’re horribly outnumbered. they need to run.

her guards tell her to run, that they’ll buy her as much time as they can. she refuses, telling then she can’t trade their lives for hers. hans is using his fire powers to keep the armies at bay, but his stamina has been hit hard by his illness, and he’s hardly practiced with his abilities in weeks, except for when he tried to use them to kill himself.

the guards insist she run. at anna’s insistence, and that of the other guards serving beneath him, mattias comes with her. anna, kristoff, hans, and mattias retreat.

hans is getting weak. he can’t keep up the defense much longer.

they try to lose their pursuers in the woods, and it might have worked, except that anna turns back to see the massacre of her guards and can’t handle it. one of hans’ brothers catches up to him and grabs anna, saying how he’ll kill her and then hans and then everyone else in the kingdom, and that’s when hans uses every ounce of his remaining strength to send up a signal flare he prays will alert elsa. she sees it, and within seconds, the temperature of the air drops fast. hans collapses.

they’re all battling furiously for their lives by the time elsa shows up. at anna’s instruction, she allows anyone willing to leave to do so with their lives, but freezes those who keep fighting against her. she freezes hearts. now that she’s learned to trust her powers, she’s not afraid to use them like this.

weselton officially declares surrender in the conflict. the southern isles beats a hasty retreat, and the army stops obeying the orders of the king. elsa has killed the brother who had been ready to kill anna.

hans is dead.

like, mostly dead.

probably dead.

when the ice has cleared, anna and kristoff look around for him and see him collapsed on the ground, his arms raw from what he’s done. kristoff pulls him into his lap. he checks for a pulse. hans opens his eyes, just long enough to see that elsa’s there and that he’s done something good completely against his own interests, and he dies smiling.

anna cries. kristoff too, honestly. maybe, their tears fall on his face, then, and he starts to revive... it’s a miracle. true love.

kristoff carries him back to the castle. they nurse him back to health again, and once he starts to get better, kristoff teases him for milking it.

anna comes by and asks him why he did that. he tells her it’s bc he loves her. he’s got nothing to gain from this confession, honestly doesn’t know where he’s going to end up after he recovers from this, but it’s simple, and he owes it to her. she’s kind of stunned.

she kisses him. even she doesn’t know where that came from, and she jerks back, apologizing.

kristoff stands in the doorway. he looks... lost?

hans tries to explain to him that he wasn’t trying to ruin things, and what just happened was his fault, not anna’s, but kristoff just stares, and wordlessly walks over to hans’ bedside like a man on a mission, and kisses him. now it’s anna’s turn to stare... except she’s just giggling.

hans is sort of shocked & offended when he realizes they talked about this. while he was unconscious, kristoff told her, and she told kristoff, and they’d negotiated it. now hans just looks back and forth between them and starts crying because he’s never been offered love like this from even one person without manipulating his way into it, has never been loved by one person for just being his real self before, and now there’s this promise of two.

he’s wrapped in bandages but he’s clean and healing and kristoff lets him curl up in his arms while anna holds his hand and the two of them share a quick kiss over his shoulder.

once he recovers, he’s officially staying in arendelle as a royal adviser to the queen, and that low position, nowhere near the throne, should probably rackle him, but he can no longer find it in himself to mind.

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kira-ani-mcgrath · 3 years

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I've little interest in Frozen stuff but I've seen bits and pieces of this Hans stuff you've mentioned on and off and I'm curious about something. When you say someone is acting un-Christlike by saying a character is irredeemable, what is it you exactly mean? Because sometimes yea, it can be narratively unsatisfying to randomly redeem a character in a story. Example: People debating if it would be narratively satisfying if Azula got redeemed. It's got nothing to do with worldview imo.

For context, this ask comes in the wake of this post.

I’m posting this reply publicly so I can refer back to it if needed in the future. I received a similar ask [hopefully that link works] on the heels of this post, which I answered privately without saving a copy of my response, and it would have been useful if I’d saved and/or posted it. Thus, here we are.

I want to make something 100% unquestionably clear to anyone who follows me or reads my posts: whenever I criticize someone labeling Hans “unredeemable”/“irredeemable” it is ALWAYS in the context of someone declaring him un/irredeemable because of what he has done.

It is NEVER people saying they don’t think Disney should redeem him because they’re worried WDAS will do a terrible job of it. It is NEVER people saying they don’t want him redeemed in an unsatisfying manner (i.e.: “BTW he’s good now, he changed off-screen and now he’s back like nothing bad happened.”). It is NEVER people saying that his redemption may not fit well into a particular scenario. It confuses me that people are interpreting my words this way, because if I were to express concern about the way a character’s actual or potential redemption were handled, I would never do it by labeling the character irredeemable or saying the character shouldn’t be redeemed at all, full stop. I would include the nuances I am referring to, such as “The character shouldn’t be redeemed off-screen,” or “The character shouldn’t be redeemed in this movie.” Therefore, if I am saying people shouldn’t call a character irredeemable, I’m not referring to specific cases such as “The character shouldn’t be redeemed by this creative team,” or, “The character shouldn’t be redeemed in this manner.” I am referring to a much larger picture.

I am criticizing people who say Hans is evil, malicious, unfeeling, manipulative, abusive, a villain, a sociopath, and/or a murder, and therefore he can never and should never be redeemed. I am criticizing people who don’t want Hans redeemed because they have a personal grudge against the character. I am criticizing people who think that once a character crosses a particular line (and apparently this line is unique for Hans, based on what he actually did compared to every other “bad guy” in fictional history), the character is now 100% bad and can never be good in any way ever again.

A Christian should never think this way. There is no unforgivable sin (besides attributing works of the Holy Spirit to Satan, as some of the Pharisees did). We are to love our enemies and desire what is best for them - to be saved, redeemed - and yet I see people with the word “Christian” in their bio bragging about how much they hate Hans because he was so terrible to Anna and Elsa, rejoicing that Hans remains unredeemed in canon, cheering when Anna punches Hans in Frozen, laughing when the Frozen Fever snowball crashes into him, agreeing with Elsa calling him an “unredeemable monster” and approving of her destroying his snow-figure in Frozen II. I see those who say they belong to Christ - the Savior who took on every sin imaginable - saying that Hans is simply too mean, too horrible, too evil to be redeemed. I hope this is obvious, but there should be no such thing as “too [x] for redemption” to the Christian. There is never anyone, real or fictional, beyond salvation and redemption. [The only exception I could think of would be a fictional world where the rules are the antithesis to Christianity - then you could say a character is irredeemable because the very nature of that universe doesn’t allow for the character’s redemption. But that certainly doesn’t apply to Frozen.]

Now to address the Azula example brought up at the end. I’m not an A:TLA fan, but I did watch the entire show and I see the occasional meta cross my dash now and then. I’m not familiar with any debates as you have referenced, so I’m just going to give my own examples to hopefully add some extra clarity to my position.

First, I fail to see how a well-done redemption arc could ever be “narratively unsatisfying,” particularly for the Christian. If it’s well-written and you see the steps the character takes, their failings and their successes, I would think that'd be quite a satisfying story. So what is the actual issue when debating characters’ redemptions? I believe it’s concerns of quality, characterization, and actions.

Given where we see Azula at the end of her fight with Zuko in the finale, it would certainly be unsatisfying if she was chilling in Iroh’s tea shop with everyone in the final moments of the series. Likewise, I would not want to see a Hans redemption where we are re-introduced to Hans and he’s completely apologetic and ready to right any wrongs. In fact, I am put-off by fanfics that start with Hans having already repented, changed, etc., from his canon actions and self. I want to see the process of change, so that it is satisfying when he finally makes the right decision.

Given the existing three seasons of A:TLA, people are free to debate on whether or not room could have been made for an Azula redemption arc. Given the current Frozen material, people are free to debate on whether or not room could have been made for a Hans redemption arc.

Had there been further canon A:TLA material, and there was an Azula redemption arc done as well as Zuko’s (such as described in this Twitter thread), I would have found that very narratively satisfying. Now, others may not like how that theoretical redemption was handled, plotted, etc. That’s perfectly fine. Likewise, people may have certain ways they don’t want a theoretical Hans redemption handled, plotted, etc. Again, perfectly fine. One can disagree on the way a redemption arc was/might be handled without dismissing the redemption altogether.

People may want Azula to remain unredeemed because they believe she would choose to be so. That’s fine (though others are allowed to disagree). For example, if she were to maintain that she did nothing wrong and reject any help Zuko and Iroh offered, then she would remain unredeemed. Alternatively, she could realize that what she did was wrong, but then go the opposite direction and believe she doesn’t deserve anything good, so she would reject love and help at every turn for the rest of her life, and thus remain unredeemed. However, I have never seen anyone call a character “irredeemable” and mean that they believe the character would actively choose to reject offers of redemption.

People may say Azula or Hans shouldn’t be redeemed because it would be out-of-character. From an unbeliever’s perspective, that may be correct, as they think certain traits as immutable. However, that’s wrong from a Christian perspective, as anyone can change if enabled by the grace of God. In fictional worlds that don’t have any Christianity, you simply use an imperfect archetype to play a pivotal role in the character’s transformation (i.e., Uncle Iroh to Zuko).

People may not be against an Azula or Hans redemption in and of itself, but think it makes the most narrative sense to leave the characters unredeemed - whether it be because there wasn’t enough time in canon, or there’s other characters to focus on, or some other behind-the-fourth-wall reason. That doesn’t make the characters irredeemable, it just means that’s the way the story currently stands. There’s no reason that story can’t change in the future.

However, if people are saying Azula shouldn’t be redeemed at all because what she did was too wrong, then that is un-Christ-like. Likewise, saying Hans is irredeemable because what he did was too wrong is indisputably un-Christ-like. Now, of course, I can’t expect unbelievers to act Christ-like, so it doesn’t surprise me when I see them express such sentiments. However, when a Christian argues against redemption on these grounds, I absolutely question why. You claim to stand on the Word of God, but declare there are actions too heinous to be forgiven and characters that don’t deserve redemption? God rebuked a man for his desire to see people punished instead of forgiven [Jonah], forgave adultery and murder [David], and transformed a man from persecuting to teaching the Church [Saul/Paul]. Yet you put your stamp of approval on a lack of redemption for a character because of the actions of that character? Further sanctification is needed, whether in love for the lost or in fully surrendering all to Christ. A lack of redemption should only serve as a warning of what happens to those who reject truth, love, and forgiveness - because, as we know, not everyone will be saved. A Christian should never be against redemption because they personally hate the character, or think the character is unforgivable, or believe the character doesn’t “deserve” it, or any other reason antithetical to who Christ is and what He has done.

#Hans #redemption #forgiveness #Christian #KAM's thoughts #ask

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venusssus · 8 months

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Uh Okay. Even in toy stores in my country Hans is being treated like shit.

like this horse shit.

Next time I’ll take a 🔫 with me.

#hans westergaard #prince hans #frozen #disney #hans of the southern isles #hans frozen #frozen hans #hans #prince hans of the southern isles #redeem hans #hans is not a unredeemable monster #fire jenn lee

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ericmicael · 10 months

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A Villain for Elsa and The Return of Thord

I already made some posts talking about possible ideas of villainous characters for “Frozen 3″ that with the confirmation of a classic villain in “Wish” I believe more and more possible, but I wanted to talk a little more about this subject and mention a certain curiosity.

This is King Magnificio, the villain of “Wish”.

Why “a villain for Elsa”? Let's remember the villains or antagonist of the franchise, however you want.

In “Frozen 1″ we have Hans and the Duke of Weselton, but Alan Tudyk's character seems that not even Disney considers him a villain mainly because of the way he was treated after F1 compared to the sociopathic prince himself (I think the Duke he is the most present character in the Frozenverse excluding the main characters and Oaken. If there are people who argue that due to the number of references to the unredeemable monster he has to be in F3, if we use the same logic the Duke has to share the role with the sisters instead from Kristoff lol).

In “Frozen 2″ we have Runeard who is already dead when the plot begins, and it is the consequences of his actions that reverberate.

So let's go to the books: Nattmara in “Forest of Shadows”, and if you want there's Draugr from “Polar Nights”.

And in the comics we have Thord.

If you know these materials, you noticed a certain curiosity about these villainous figures, excluding the Duke and Runeard, all that are left are Anna's villains and not Elsa's villains, except Thord.

Obviously they get in the way of both sisters, but Hans is all about Anna's arc first, Nattmara was driven by Anna's fear, and even the Draugr seems to be more connected to her because of their similar histories (although this part of the book seems more Anna is fighting real-life haters who haven't accepted that she is now the Queen of Arendelle. I like how “Polar Nights” can be interpreted as a metalanguage book). And it's Anna who somehow defeats them all. But Thord is 100% just attached to Elsa.

Thord is one of the characters I've called "sons of Hans", where he seems to be an evolution of the Prince of the Southern Isles arc. But Thord is special because he is one of several that seem to have been created based on designers of the prince's appearance, but precisely on discarded concept art, which is not at all rare among the NPCs of the franchise, when I say that Hans is a generic character it's not just by implication.

In the comic "Lur Thief" addresses a possible origin for Elsa's magic. Thord is a member of a noble family that he believes in the past should have been the true royal family of Arendelle, and so he tries to regain power from the sisters. But the most interesting part of this is that he believes that this event in the past is linked to the origin of Elsa's powers, and because he considers himself more worthy than her, he also wants the ice powers of the Queen of Arendelle at that moment. Thord is not as simple as Hans who would be happy with the conquest of any kingdom that serves to humiliate his brothers, he wants Arendelle and mainly wants Elsa's magic and power. At the end of the comic what he believed to be the origin of Elsa's powers proves to be a lie, but he manages to escape promising to return for revenge... And as far as I know he never did.

This whole "Lur Thief" plot about the past of the kingdom of Arendelle may not even fit in with what we know of the kingdom's real past anymore. And it would not be the first time that this happens with a comic, there is a comic telling the first Polar Night Festival after Anna becomes Queen of Arendelle which would obviously conflict with the book “Polar Nights”.

What I've said before I repeat now: for me “Frozen 2″ failed to simplify the entire magical universe of the franchise because it limits what it can do with magic. Putting other humans with magic into the franchise at this point in my opinion would take all the weight off Elsa's arc in the second film, as well as causing other problems. And that's why I believe that if “Wish” really was the kickoff for the return of classic Disney villains, “Frozen 3″ will have a great chance of having an exemplary character like that, but even if that person (I'm rooting for a villain similar to Olenna Tyrell from "Game of Thrones") has a magical interest like Thord making Elsa his rival and not Anna, I don't imagine it will be what some want: a "Harry Potter" style duel of wizards or fights using elements like in "Avatar: The Last Airbender”.

#Frozen 3 #disney wish #villian #Elsa #disney elsa

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