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pessimisticpigeonsworld · 3 months

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I believe this is the tiktok op is talking about. For those who don't feel like opening the link, here's what it says:

This is yet another case of Alicent stans being pissy when confronted with the truth of her character and taking it out on Rhaenyra. The poster of the tiktok is simply pointing out Alicent's hypocrisy and how readily she sacrificed her daughter for her ambition.

Apparently op believes Rhaenyra stans are making up actual facts of the story? I know they didn't read the book, but did they even watch the actual show? The main reason why Rhaenyra is seen as a better mother than Alicent is because we actually see how they treat their children.

Alicent takes every opportunity she has to instill treason into her sons. She teaches Aemond that Rhaenyra's sons are below him and constantly yells at Aegon that he's the "true heir". She actively allows Aegon to bully Aemond, as long as he does is in private. She full on physically assaults him when she thinks he's being too disgraceful in public.

With Helaena, it doesn't really matter how nicely Alicent treated her. Ultimately, Helaena is treated by her mother as a method to support Aegon's claim and give him "true Targaryen" heirs.

In the show, this is made even more disgusting because Alicent herself was forced to marry at a young age and have children she didn't want. She forced her only daughter to marry Aegon, who bullied and demeaned her, at fucking thirteen, this likely being when Helaena started menstruating. That's not being just a "flawed mother", that's a woman sacrificing her daughter in the name of blind ambition and treason.

I'm sure Alicent did love her children, in her own demented way. But she didn't love them enough to spare them from her and her father's ambitions. Alicent sacrificed each of her children for the throne and lived to see them all die for it.

Rhaenyra loved her children more than anything, part of the reason she fought so hard was for them. She knew Alicent's psychopathic sons would kill them if she surrendered. Every scene of Rhaenyra and her children, we see how much she cares about them and how tenderly she treats them. No, Rhaenyra isn't a perfect mother, but her sons never doubt for a moment that she loves them.

Not to mention that Rhaenyra actually respects their opinions, she included Jace, Luke, and even Baela and Rhaena in her war councils, and takes their opinions seriously. Alicent doesn't listen to her daughter or treat her like an adult. Aegon she drags around like a reluctant chess piece, one she beats because she can't deal with the the fact that she raised a rapist, but doesn't actually care enough to not make him the most powerful man in the realm. Aemond she treats as her emotional support, which is interesting given how completely unstable the guy is.

Op is another example of how Alicent stans don't actually like Alicent as a character, they like her aesthetic and victimhood. They hate how Alicent actually is written and lash out at anyone who points out who she really is.

#anti alicent stans #anti alicent hightower #anti team green stans #anti team green #anti aegon ii targaryen #anti aemond targaryen #helaena targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #house of the dragon #team black

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florisbaratheons · 16 days

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Can we stop with this delusional story about teenagers in love? I'm so tired of this. The war is BETWEEN BROTHER AND SISTER. And another thing that worries me is Rhaena stealing Nettles' plot. I like her and I even think it's cool that she has more prominence, but does she need to take another character's story?

Agreed. This is making me furious, honestly, and I hope I am barking up the wrong tree but I really don't think so.

I was told rather rudely that Aegon did nothing in the war so it makes sense for Alicent to stay at the forefront. Um, Rook's Rest is nothing? Escaping with his children from KL and taking Dragonstone is nothing? Beating the shit out of Baela is nothing? His beautiful dragon coming for him on Dragonstone is nothing? Sparing little Aegon and refusing to kill him and drop to the Blacks' level is NOTHING?

Keeping Alicent as the figure head of the Greens is a mistake. Aegon was the head of the Green faction - Alicent did take over for him when he was out of commission and when he was in hiding on Dragonstone, I will agree with that. But the Green faction was about Aegon just as much as the Black faction was about Rhaenyra. It was an interesting choice giving Rhaenyra and Alicent history, but that should have been done when Aemond's eye came out of his head. It should be a thing of the past, and making Alicent waffle, especially after her grandson was murdered, makes her look weak. And I think Aemond saying "Alicent harbors love for the enemy" is well after B&C because there certainly isn't any time to shove all of that into episode 1, so that tells me their own beef is gonna carry on.

I don't get it the Rhaena thing. If they wanted to make something up for her, then her going under Jeyne's tutelage is great. Jeyne teaching her how to be politically minded, and them experiencing Morning's hatching together is such a lovely story. Why does she need Sheepstealer? I mean, Daemon and Rhaenyra are supposed to be on the outs, so I do not see the point of this.

#answered #anonymous #anti rhaenicent #aegon ii targaryen #Rhaena of pentos #nettles #hotd spoilers

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gwenllian-in-the-abbey · 5 months

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What makes you interested in book!Aegon? (didn't read the books)

Thank you for asking this anon!

There is a LOT I could say about book!Aegon. To start, I think if you haven't read F&B it's kind of hard to understand that even moreso than with ASOIAF, there are almost no "good" characters unless you count people who are the completely innocent victims of other characters' actions, so choosing a character to like isn't really some moral or ethical issue the way a lot of show fans seem to make it out to be. In the actual historical Anarchy, I 100% think Matilda was done dirty and should have been queen. She was usurped by one of her cousins, not a brother, a guy who wasn't even the oldest male of his family, and beyond being her father's choice, her legal claim was stronger and she was a pretty impressive woman in her own right. But Rhaenyra is no Matilda, and F&B as a whole just doesn't have any Brienne of Tarths, or even Robb Starks. Hell, it's even pretty low on Jaime Lannisters. The most social-justice minded character is a five year old bastard and his lesbian sex-worker mothers who try to put him on the throne. You have characters who do one good or heroic thing like Addam Velaryon, and characters who are blandly inoffensive, like Jacaerys, but they are not really compelling dynamic characters either. You also have a lot of really loathsome assholes. Book!Aemond, for instance, doesn't even have the childhood bullying backstory to soften him, he's just violent, and often a liability. Aegon is one of the very few characters who actually has a dynamic character arc and a few redeeming qualities. He changes over the course of the story, shows a lot of resilience and tenacity, and ultimately, what happens to him is tragic. (This is long, I'm sorry. I'm incapable of being concise on this topic and I honestly could have said even more. Also, book spoilers ahead, obiously).

Just to get it out of the way, the show did Aegon pretty dirty in adapting Mushroom's accounts about the "guttersnipes" selectively. Mushroom talks a LOT of shit, and the stuff he says about Rhaenyra is almost more abhorrent than the stuff he says about Aegon, and he was actually on her side. Is Aegon a good, decent, honorable guy? Not really. Aegon is written as a hedonist. He's a drinker, he's gluttonous, and he sleeps around. The more neutral non-Mushroom sources say that Aegon was handsy with the maids (not great, to be clear), and we know he has a couple of bastards and likely at least one paramour, but there's no really credible suggestion that book!Aegon is some serial rapist. Is it plausible that he could have been? Sure. I'll give the haters that, it's not a huge stretch to say a guy who was handsy with the maids might have taken other liberties, but I'll also say this: George does not have a problem outright stating that someone is a rapist or an abuser when that is his intent, even characters he likes (hell, book!Tyrion is explicitly written as a rapist and George loves him), but he did not have anyone but Mushroom say anything like this about Aegon. But Aegon's got a lot of vices, and they start pretty young. If we look at other Targaryens, drinking problems are pretty rampant. Aegon is also called "sullen," and "pouty" but Aegon is in a unique position. He's the eldest son, but his father chose his elder sister as heir, and this is pretty unheard of in this world, an eldest son who gets second son treatment. And unlike other second sons, like, say, Daemon, he doesn't even have an advantageous marriage arranged for him. Daemon might not have liked Rhea or wanted that marriage, but the point of it was to give Daemon holdings of his own and lands he could inherit so that he would not always be beholden to whomever sat the throne. There is just zero provision made for Aegon or his siblings' futures. Instead, Viserys (not Alicent) marries Aegon to his sister, sealing both Aegon and Helaena's fates. It means that when Rhaenyra becomes queen, he and Helaena will be entirely at her mercy, and will basically have to be charity cases, dependent on her continued willingness to support a brother that she hates, who poses a considerable threat to her rule, and his family of dragonriders, all of whom are legitimate unlike her older sons. And book!Rhaenyra is not a great person, the show softens her considerably (I won't get into Rhaenyra in this post because it's not about her, but I have Rhaenyra thoughts too), so there's really no indication that she'd do this. But, in spite of all this, Aegon is not particularly keen to take the throne. He does it because he becomes convinced his family's safety depends on it (and in my opinion, this is true, except taking the throne also, ironically, dooms them. This is a no-win situation for Aegon and his siblings).

Aegon is a reluctant king who is young and inexperienced and he makes mistakes, but he does his best to step up for the sake of his family. And he suffers greatly as a result. There's this idea that gets thrown around a lot that Aegon didn't care for his family, but there's really no suggestion of that in the book. Was he a hands on, present dad? Was he in love with Helaena? I mean, he's an alcoholic teen dad whose father made him marry his thirteen year old sister at sixteen, but he clearly did love his kids. Aegon is devastated by Blood and Cheese. He has to be stopped from immediately taking off on Sunfyre and storming Dragonstone and is forced to wait while Otto keeps trying to win supporters and make alliances. During this period Aegon "drinking and raging." He's upset. But when Helaena falls into depression and can't take care of Maelor due to the guilt of having chosen him to die, Aegon is the one who notices and puts Maelor into Alicent's care. And Otto's lack of decisive action after B&C is what leads to him firing Otto and naming Criston as Hand, and then Aegon joins battle himself and winds up horrifically injured as a result. And Aegon battles back from injuries that really should not have been survivable, which leave him in incredible pain. There are points he's begging for death, the pain is that bad, and no one really thinks he'll survive at first, but he does, he fights back, and when King's Landing falls he and his children are spirited away.

Where does that well of strength come from, if he doesn't have anything or anyone worth fighting for? He shows incredible resourcefulness and resilience, rehabilitates himself and his dragon, kicks milk of the poppy, and infiltrates Dragonstone, Rhaenyra's stronghold. And at what should be his moment of triumph, finally taking Dragonstone's keep, he's injured again by Baela, and his dragon, which he worked so hard to rehabilitate, dies after being wounded in that same battle. Aegon will live out the rest of his life disabled and with chronic pain. By the end he has lost nearly his entire family including both his sons, he's ill, he's drinking again, he's disabled, and he's got an entire clownshow of a council at each others' throats and pulling him this way and that, and still he doesn't give up. Then you get a lot of frankly ableist nonsense (again, mostly from Mushroom) about how Aegon was sitting on dragon eggs and watching other people fuck because he couldn't, there's a strong effort there in Gyldayn's narrative to build up his poisoning as being somewhat justified because Aegon was "not a well man," but it's tragic what happens to him.

Finally, and I might catch some slack for saying this, but in a war that is notably devoid mercy, book!Aegon is one of the few characters that shows any, even when he has every reason to be vengeful. Does he spare Rhaenyra? No. But she would not have spared him at that point either. He does spare Aegon III and Baela, some would argue to his own detriment. He spares Gaemon Palehair, and he grants Trystane Trufyre's last request to be knighted before he dies. His more ruthless actions are also relatively justified in the context of Westeros compared to some of the other completely wanton killings that we see from others in the Dance on both sides. Again, is he a great person? No. He's a impetuous young man with a lot of issues who was not raised for the throne, making some questionable decisions but also showing a lot of bravery, resilience, and yes, mercy.

And you know, just to get it out there, I've been accused of being a book purist and of being oh so above it all by anons before, but it's not that I think the book!Dance is really all that great. F&B has its problems too, and I know that if an adaptation were to follow it completely faithfully, it would not be a very good show. But Aegon is one of the more complex and interesting Dance characters, one of the few who is present and active until the end, and it's a pity that a lot of show watchers and wiki readers have written him off because how the show handled Aegon in season one. (tagging @aifsaath on this in case she'd like to share Aegon thoughts!)

#asks #aegon ii targaryen #fire and blood #hotd critical #kinda

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1800naveen · 5 days

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HOUSE OF THE DRAGON: ACOTAR EDITION!

TEAM BLACK:

Nesta Archeron: Queen Rhaenyra I Targaryen

I have to give one of the best characters to the Queen herself. Nesta is a Rhaenyra stan, canon. (I'm SJM and I approve of this message). Viserys got up from his deathbed to defend his daughter one last time. Papa Archeron was riding the Nesta to fight for his daughters one last time. And both aren't the best dads out there so there's that🤷🏾‍♀️. The things some people can say about either of them is strange (Y'all be showing your true colors at times).

Emerie and Gwyneth Berdara: Princess Rhaenys Targaryen and Lord Corlys Velaryon

For Emerie: Faces significant challenges due to the patriarchal society she lives in, including oppression as an Illyrian female. Rhaenys lost her claim to the Iron Throne because of her gender and it was given to her cousin, Viserys I Targaryen. Both have great roles with the protagonist; Rhaenys being a loyal supporter of Rhaenyra and Emerie fighting besides Nesta and being both her best friend and sister, restoring the Valkyries together alongside Gwyn.

For Gwyn: I'm being honest, I don't have a lot for my girl but I'll try. House Velaryon is one of the houses that survived the Doom of Valyria. They're associated with the sea and ocean; Corlys' nickname is the "Sea Snake". Gwyn is half River nymph so with that side of her, I associated it with the house that has ties to the sea.

TEAM GREEN:

Mor: Queen/Lady Alicent Hightower

For Mor: Que the lyric "She likes a boy, she likes a boy, she likes a boy, she likes a boy. And I'm not a boy, I'm not a boy, I'm not a-". Both are obsessed with the protagonist (Don't blame them, I too am obsessed with Rhaenyra and Nesta). They both have shitty dads which messed them up. They also have a knight/warrior that's in love with them (insert Criston and Azriel).

The thing is Show and Book Alicent is a much more interesting character than Mor. Book Alicent was cunning as fuck and went after what she wanted and I gotta respect that.

Cassian: Prince Aemond Targaryen

For Cassian: Aemond and Alys' relationship reminds me of Cassian's and Nesta's relationship (I dislike both). Both are momma's boys and got dads who don't care about them. Cassian destroyed a village and Aemond burned the Riverlands.

Azriel: Ser Criston Cole

For Azriel: Both are loyal to a woman that isn't in love with them. Both are fighters. And both had a connection to the protagonist but Azriel never became salty with Nesta and cares for her. Criston said "let's go sell oranges" and Rhaenyra said no because why would a royal give up their luxury life? Man became salty and her opp. AZRIEL ON TOP, EVEN THOUGH HE CAN GET ON MY NERVES!

Rhysand: King Aegon II Targaryen

For Rhysand: I'm not going into detail because it will be too damn long so TLDR: Imagine Aegon as a faerie and you got Rhysand.

Amren: Lord Otto Hightower

For Amren: Otto is old, Amren is old. Otto wants his grandson to be king, Amren wants Rhys to be king. (Funny since both Aegon and Rhys said they didn't want to be king but one succeeded in their plan and it isn't Amren).

(All are just jokes, don't take it seriously! Trying to cut the heads so I could put it on the pictures was a pain.)

#pro nesta #pro valkyries #anti rhysand #anti morrigan #anti cassian

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hellsbellschime · 2 years

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I was not expecting to love Aemond of all people before the show came out lmao. In two episodes Leo and Ewan have made him my absolute favourite. 😂😂

I wasn't expecting to like him so much either but I feel like the added context of his characterization actually makes him far more interesting, and the entire showdown over his eye is just SUCH A GOOD SCENE TO ME. Like yes, this kid is a badass but he's also sitting there simply doing the calculus of what's happening and realizes that he, the mutilated and now-disabled 10-year-old, has to diffuse the situation because he's not going to get justice, Luke isn't going to be punished, and his mom and siblings who his dad does not give a shit about actually might be the ones to suffer the consequences if he doesn't just take it on the chin and move on. That is a REALLY horrific injustice for a 10-year-old to have to swallow, and to see how that seamlessly translates to who he becomes almost a decade later even with the incredibly rapid storytelling is just great.

His position in the story is so interesting because so many people are just calling him as Green-Daemon when he has become who he is for all of the opposite reasons. Daemon is a roguish nightmare because he knows he can do anything and get away with it, and Aemond is a roguish nightmare because he knows he has to be the one to do shit because no one else will.

He likely became such a badass warrior because in one fell swoop the worst thing that ever happened to him happened and he realized that his mother, literally the only person enraged enough to not go along with the gaslight gatekeep girlboss excusing of the King's favored side of the family, was actually so disfavored by his father that Aemond felt like HE had to protect HER from HIM. And he has to spend his whole life afterward pretending that it's fine even to the point of having to sit down and play family with the people who hurt him on every imaginable level in order to protect an old man's fee-fees when that old man wouldn't lift a finger to protect Aemond AT ALL, and while there is no excuse for what's to come I'm just saying that if someone had just acknowledged this injustice then the entire course of the war would have been changed and I'm just saying THIS IS A LOT OF PATHOS TO DEVELOP FOR ONE CHARACTER IN LIKE 13 MINUTES OF SCREEN TIME

#aemond targaryen

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maryonaccross · 10 months

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Hello, love your blog. I was wondering what are the things you would like to see in the next season(s) of HotD? Honestly, I'm not really hopeful and was quite disappointed how they handled some important characters and storylines in season 1, but I'll give a chance to season 2. If it disappoints me, well, at least I tried. The thing that worries me the most is the fact that it will only have 8 episodes because I think that could only harm the pacing. Anyway, here are some of the things I would like to see:

1. First of all, I want Alicent to stop being so apologetic and finally show some teeth. Team blank already hates her with passion and I want to see her acting for real like they were pretending she was acting in season 1. Let her be decisive, resentful of Rhaenyra, unconditionally supporting and protective of her children. I don't want to see any of "my old childhood friend" bullshit anymore. It was a good idea to start the story, but that is also something that should have been dead and buried long ago, especially after Driftmark. How could she actually approach Rhaenyra after the dinner and act all apologetic and humble again, even after that same "friend" asked for her maimed son to be "sharply questioned". No mother should get over it and I don't want to see "Rhaenyra is actually the most important to Alicent" narrative again. It would also be interesting to see the development of her relationship with Criston, not necessarily in a romantic way.

2. More Helaena screentime and her dreams/visions. I would like them to give her more importance and agency than she had in the book, especially after B&C. Explore her relationship with her family, make her an actual character, not just a "weird bug girl," "an innocent victim",...Same goes for Aemond and Aegon. I want to see Aegon as a complex character struggling with his new position, but also learning how to be more responsible and perceptive. Give me some intense scene between him and Aemond where they actually confront each other and finally express the way they see their place in the Targaryen family, how they cope(d) with their father's neglect, maybe discussion about Helaena and her abilities. I would really like to see some scenes between the green kids like the ones the Lannisters had in GoT, especially in the early seasons. This show needs something like that because it lacks depth when it comes to certain relationships. And yes, they better finally give Dreamfyre and Sunfyre the attention they deserve.

3. As for Aemond, I must say I'm not looking forward to his Harrenhal storyline, I prefer him in KL and interacting with his family. Furthermore, I'm not an Alys fan, when it comes to Aemond ships I'm more Rhaemond (will never become canon, I know) and Helaemond (might become canon, but not very likely) so I believe this Alysmond relationship will probably be something like Daemyra, deeply problematic and toxic, but quite popular among the fans. I just hope they won't make it some great love story because it won't make much sense imho. And of course, more scenes between him and Vhagar to show their bond and similarities. I'll never forgive them not including her roar when he lost an eye.

4. Give Baela and Rhaena more agency. Maybe some confrontation with their father and/or stepmother wouldn't hurt. If they really intend to depict Baela as Daemon no2 I'll probably hate her lol, but three is still hope for Rhaena. I've always imagined that she would be disgusted with B&C.

5. Include Sara Snow storyline. Regardless of what some people say, there are no romantic feelings between Jace and Baela imo and she will probably have another romantic interest, so why not give something to Jace to make his story more interesting? I don't believe in Cregan xJace and the way some TB fans defend that relationship as more acceptable and less harmful to his betrothal to Baela is ridiculous. Cheating is cheating, so why Sara isn't acceptable, but Cregan is? And anyway, that betrothal was forced upon them to cover for Rhaenyra's mistakes, so let Jace be rebellious for once, not just meek and dutiful. We've seen his darker side so they could explore that a bit more.

6. Please, don't make Nettles Daemon's daughter. Honestly, this is a tough one since their relationship was strange in the book too, but whatever they do, I hope they won't make her his daughter.

7. Don't make B&C a botched kidnapping or something. That would be too much and could actually make me stop watching

8. Show more cases of the dragons acting on their own, like Vhagar and Arax at Shipbreaker's Bay. Explore more "the idea that we control the dragons is an illusion". I want to see that on both sides, it would especially be interesting with the more experienced riders.

9. A good Rhaenyra vs Alicent confrontation scene. At least one.

10. No more Larys/Alicent scenes like the one in episode 9. Please.

Hey, thanks so much for the ask!

To be honest, you perfectly summarized everything I’d like to see in season two although my hopes are extremely low. The first season was a complete disaster with characters changing personalities every five seconds I don’t even want to know what they’ll turn season two into.

I think the only things I have to add are that I don’t want them giving all of Aegon’s storylines to Aemond. The writers have really gone out of their way to make Aegon as unlikable as possible and if it wasn’t for TGC’s efforts the character would be entirely unlikable. Aegon’s main redeeming quality in the books was his love for his family and his siblings so I’ll probably stop watching if they show him being in a brothel while blood and cheese happens, or if they’ll have Aemond executing them instead of Aegon.

Also, concerning blood and cheese, I have heard rumors/theories about how Dyana is supposedly going to be involved in it which I find absolutely atrocious. What are you trying to achieve at this point?? First you have to make him a rapist for some reason, and now you want to make his rape victim look like a terrible person by making her an accomplice to child murder.

I hate what they did to Beala in Rhaela, their inheritance was stolen and apparently they’re completely thrilled being the cupbearers of the woman their father married days after their mothers death and who is rumored to have killed their uncle. I hate how they took away all their agency and made them happy being married to Rhaenyra sons.

Most of all, I want the show to stop picking sides and nitpicking what they want to present as abuse and what they’re going to ignore (you can’t say anyone who supports Aegon is a rape apologist, while giving pedo wifekiller Daemon a free pass)

The only way to make the next season interesting is by depicting both sides as nuanced and morally Grey instead of making it into a good vs evil shit show

#pro team green #anti team black #anti team black stans #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #pro alicent hightower #anti viserys i targaryen #anti jace x helaena #anti rhaenyra stans

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scaly-freaks · 11 days

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If you had to write a sequel after TGOWARL with amaras son as the main character, how would you go on abt it? Who would be his love interest, how would his relationship with his parents look like, would you even keep amara and aegon alive or would you do something tragic abt them, and most importantly: WOULD HE BE A HOT VAMPIRE?!

Took me an embarrassing few seconds to figure out what TGOWARL was *-*

Tbh I wouldn't write a sequel as it would basically be an OC novel so I just don't feel the point of writing that in the ASOIAF verse. Not against discussing it though.

But also hmmmm...so in Burning Jasmine, Valerion was one of the most batshit Targaryens possible. The only way he could be more batshit in this version is if he was preying on his own sister, which Jaehaerys already will grow up to do. There are plot points I can't betray currently, so the relationship with his parents can't be fully unfurled, however, he isn't Aegon's favourite by any means, I will say that. He reminds Aegon of Aemond, but he also comes off more "Uller" than Targaryen because of the black hair (which does have a white mallen streak).

Amara's parental situation..........is not as perfect as it seems, which will be explored in the next chapter, and it's kind of the reason why she herself isn't the best parent in this fic as compared to Burning Jasmine. She gets overwhelmed easily, or becomes "friends" with her kids which isn't the correct way to discipline them. Aegon on the other hand is always the disciplinarian and not a friend, but only because he wants to exert control over his children the way he knows Viserys didn't over him (he probably fears children like himself to rebel against him).

Aegon's parenting throws everything more into imbalance than Amara's though, because she at least tries to give them all love equally even when depression hits and she just wants to pretend she doesn't have kids and retreats into herself (parenting is a 24/7 job and not everyone is ready for it).

But Aegon favours Jaehaera heavily. The topic of spousification of a child is a difficult one, but it happens all the time. And I think if Amara died or just withdrew emotionally from Aegon, he would spousify Jaehaera (who will grow up to have mental health/behavioural issues of her own which can get very violent, but with her dad, she's always sweet). Theres quite a fair bit of Electra complex with Jaehaera when she's in her teenage years, so it's something that travels both ways and gets unhealthy, especially when their attachment as father-daughter starts to alienate his sons (especially Jaehaerys, who only ever had Aegon once his mother died).

Jaehaerys's obsession with Jaehaera stems from the basic element of she has everything I want, she is everything I want. She has Amara who is his pseudo-mother figure, she has Aegon who is his father, she has the love of everyone who sees her because she's the Targaryen princess who was legitimised and hatched her egg before she was even born. Half of it is Jaehaerys wanting to cut off her skin and wear it, and the other half is obviously sexual/emotional/mental (I need you to need me so I can convince myself I'm worth something - but if you don't do it the way I want, I hurt you).

Compared to his two older siblings, Valerion is relatively ignored. Which obviously mean he develops a personality all by himself, explores the world himself, learns how to regulate his emotions on his own. In that sense he's sort of like Aegon aka visiting brothels young because a friend suggested it. Hanging out with a group outside his family all the time and learning how to be a man from them (with disastrous results). He would also go for the biggest dragon over keeping the egg he was given as a babe (which would never hatch). He probably wouldn't want Vermithor for this personal belief that because the dragon hasn't seen heavy war, he's "useless." He'd want a dragon like Cannibal, simply because he enjoys the thought of the beast hunting out his siblings' mounts for sport. He's sadistic to a fault, and if he ever became king, he'd make Maegor look like a fun time in the park.

p.s. I don't understand the vampire question 😭

#the god of wine and rainbow lamps #valerion

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bbygirl-aemond · 1 year

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what do you think of the theory that aemond is the biological father of helaena's children?

eep i don't want to alienate anyone who ships helaemond bc i'm not the type to hate on specific ships, but i think this theory relies on completely incorrect assumptions about aemond's character. aemond would have been far too young to father jaehaera and jaehaerys, and for him to father maelor would go against all of his demonstrated principles towards family, duty, and morality. let's get into more detail! csa cw going forward because all of these characters have sex for the first time when they are way too young for it to be okay, even in-universe.

okay so jaehaera and jaehaerys are six years old around the time of viserys's death. at this point in the books, aemond is nineteen; in the show, he's meant to be even younger, around eighteen. remember that a pregnancy lasts for nine months, and people don't usually conceive on the first try. so aemond would have had to conceive the twins when he was barely thirteen at most, and possibly as young as eleven or twelve. that's just so monumentally messed up. like he might not have even been capable of having children, that's how incredibly young we're talking.

additionally, aemond isn't shown to have the healthiest or most open relationship with sex. in the show, he mentions that aegon took him to a brothel when he was around thirteen (interesting that this would've occurred around when aegon had to conceive with helaena and as i've discussed here was probably going through a lot of shit internally). aemond seems upset to remember this, and doesn't speak of it fondly. so i don't think he would have exactly been jumping at the chance to have sex with helaena right around when he was molested. and again, even if he did, it would be assault because of how young and undeveloped his baby brain was.

lastly, and this applies for maelor too since i know y'all will point out that aemond was older by the time he was born, aemond would never interfere with aegon and helaena's marriage. i think a ton of people have really misconstrued his words to aegon about helaena when they were both children. let's look specifically at what he says in episode seven:

aegon: we have nothing in common. aemond: she's our sister. aegon: you marry her, then. aemond: i would do my duty, if mother had only betrothed us.

i know that little "only" in the last line made a lot of people think he has the hots for helaena. but i think it's important to put it in context of his relationship with aegon and what's come before that line. this isn't aemond professing love for helaena; it's aemond trying to comfort aegon, who is reluctant to do his "duty." as a side note, i've talked here about aegon's relationship with helaena and why he didn't want to marry her in greater detail. he's trying to make aegon feel better (compare this to how later, even eyeless, he tries to make alicent feel better), but is also trying to tell aegon that it's important they as family stick together and do their duties as is demanded of them. i think aemond saying "only" here is less "god i want to sleep with my sister so bad" and more "i wish i could take this burden from you, since i know you dread it."

i've talked about this before here, but aegon and aemond show that they're quite aware of the irony of their birth orders. aemond thrives under the attention and constraints that aegon hates, and aegon thrives under the freedom and obscurity that aemond resents. each is better suited to the other's duties. but very importantly, aemond never tries to change this. he never does so politically, and it wouldn't make sense for him to do personally.

in fire and blood, aegon is indisposed for the better part of a year. while he's down for the count, aemond effectively rules in his stead. but he refuses to call himself a king, and instead styles himself "prince regent." for all that he and aegon talk about aemond being better suited to the crown, when it comes down to it, even with no one there to make him do so, aemond refuses to infringe upon his brother's titles.

if aemond refused to so much as undermine aegon's title in a situation where no one (including aegon) would have blamed him to do so, why on earth would he suddenly abandon his principles and undermine his marriage with helaena (even if aegon and helaena were both willing)? so far as we've seen in the show, aemond has strong values of things like "decency" and "propriety;" he's very much parroted back everything his mother's taught him. and he would never trespass upon his brother's marriage, just as he never trespassed on his brother's title, regardless of his personal feelings.

oh also: i know people use blood and cheese to justify that the kids must have been aemond's. but this ignores that daemon was very much mad at aegon, too: aegon threw a whole party to celebrate lucerys's death. besides, what is up with this idea that the twins need to be aemond's to make blood and cheese awful? it's already literally as awful as possible, on purpose.

tldr: for aemond to be the father of any of helaena's children, you have to completely ignore his character from both the show and the book as it pertains to duty, family, and principle. for him to be the father of jaehaera and jaehaerys in particular, you are hoping that a thirteen year old boy was raped by his sister right around the time he was already being raped by a sex worker.

for my helaemond shippers, i love you and you did nothing wrong. if you want to believe they came to love each other once they were older, then by all means go ahead. i personally believe that a relationship can be meaningful while being platonic, but you do you. just please stop trying to tell me aemond is the kids' father, poor thing has been through enough trauma and is already misunderstood enough

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thesunfyre4446 · 6 months

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Everyone loves the Aemond/Aegon x niece reader fics where they join the Blacks but hear me out how about an Aemond/Aegon x mentally conflicted soul that can't fit anywhere she looks to no matter how hard she tries, like actual female rage in the flesh that's never enough and only finds comfort in the one bond that isn't thrust or forced upon her reader fics. Or oc. I don't know. I'm tired of female ocs/insert girlies merely existing so the green brothers are """redeemed""" (lmao.) Like give me conflict. Give me trauma bonding. Give me the most unexcusably toxic oc x canon I can't help but cheer on because it's the last crumb of sanity and familiarity they have left. Like. Am I ill or smth.

i hear you anon. i hate it when female characters are written \ exist for their love interest. it's boring.

and i'm not a big fan of characters being "redeemed" by love in general. i'm here for the love that makes everything worse ;)

i highly recommend @acrossthesestars "they say I killed you (haunt me then)", and @emilykaldwen "The Maiden and the Drowning Boy". great authors, great complex aemond \ oc and aegon \ oc fics.

i need to do another fic recommendations post... let me know if you guys know of any good fics ;)

#house of the dragon #oc #aegon x oc #aemond x oc #hotd #asks

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daylander1000 · 1 year

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Will you watch season 2 of HotD or you've lost interest in the show? I wasn't thrilled with season 1, but I do like some characters and I'm curious to see if they'll do them any justice in the next season(s). I'm still trying to be optimistic (which is definitely against my nature 😁), although the latest leaks from Spain (which I desperately hope to be false) doesn't sound promising.

Idk it you read Fire & Blood, but that book is often overrated imho, almost all the characters there are painfully one-dimensional, shallow and bland, while the plot is full of illogical things (especially the Dance part) . So, as you can see, I'm not the biggest book fan, and I do believe that the show did some things better and gave a bit of depth and complexity to certain characters and fleshed them out. However, at the same time it seems to me that they didn't complete what they started, like, you see the potential of the characters and understand their motivations, but then out of the blue they do or say something totally nonsensical and OOC. Take Alicent at the end of episode 8. Rhaenyra says something nice to her and she suddenly forgives everything and forgets that's the same woman who wanted to "sharply question" Aemond after her son Luke maimed him over an insult (a fact, actually), the woman her husband always favoured at the expense of Alicent's own children and finally, the woman who is married to Daemon, the sociopath who hates Alicent and her children and who will kill anyone (and apparently with Rhaenyra and Viserys' blessing) without remorse if it benefits him and his side. I mean, the guy even had the gall to look annoyed during the prayer for Vaemond. Still, according to the show, Alicent somehow needs to "misunderstand" Viserys' last words to crown her own son, and not because it's probably the only way to keep her and her children alive and safe and because her son actually has the strongest claim to the throne according to Westerosi laws avd tradition. And don't get me started on the Velaryons who are collectively depicted as "Dae and Rhae fan club". Like, what is Corlys even thinking?! I won't ask about Baela and Rhaena because they obviously don't get to think and are just unconditionally supportive of Rhaenyra and the Strong boys. Rhaenys is contradictory and inconsistent. It's frustrating, really. Also, the fact that the narrative/the framing of the show heavily favours team black is also off-putting. Nevertheless, I'm still curious and just a bit hopeful that season 2 will balance these things a little. Maybe I'll just be terribly disappointed, but oh well. Sorry for the rant :D

Anyway, as a fan of your fic, I would like to know your opinion. Does the show deserve our optimism and what are your predictions regarding season 2?

S2 predictions? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Why would you ask me this? This is a show where someone in a professional HBO writers room said, "So what if a dragon just bursts up from the underground?" And the showrunner was like "Fuck yeah!"

I don't think they even thought to do a camera pan of the carnage. It's like they wanted to make Rhaenys look badass but did a Koolaid Man scene instead.

Tell me that this isn't Rhaenys

Predictions? This is not Leftovers where you could do a whole video essay on foreshadowing and subtext and hidden clues. This is a series where there's a horse running loose in a writer's room and nobody knows what it's going to write next.

This is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen.

My prediction for S2 is that during the time off at least one person realizes that they failed to make Aegon into Joff 2.0, that instead of having him be affably evil, he's onscreen affable and offscreen evil, and they'll try to double down on actually showing that he's evil and actually showing that he's worse than Daemon and Rhaenyra.

We've seen Daemon in brothels, grooming and marrying children, killing Rhea, killing innocent people and murdering lords at court, but we've only been told (by very minor characters) that Aegon is a baby-eating rape monster. It's all extremely "tacked-on."

I think Aegon's the biggest problem that they have to work on. Just getting at least this one character to make sense moving forward.

When Jahaerys is killed, I think they'll use that to really commit to making him the bad guy. Like he'll have to be killing a baby or raping someone or eating someone so that it's not Rhaenyra and Daemon killing a child but "Look at what this bad man was doing instead of protecting his son."

As far as predictions go, that's all I can see. If they only develop one character in S2, it needs to be him. Rhaenyra has Rockstar!Daemon, Rhaenys and Corlys on her side, so they'll have to upscale the green threat otherwise it's a bunch of grown people and veteran soldiers fighting two children who have no experience at anything because the oldest one is a 20-year-old frat boy and his brother is still a teenager. Aegon's going to have to really be villainous.

I feel like there's a reason all his nude scenes are with his mother, it's one of the few consistent things between them through the time skips and actor changes, and I feel like they're going to go fully 500% in that Commodus direction

and have him just be creepy and rapey with her in a "bad incest," how-the-turntables, "be careful what you wish for" way. Alicent's defining trait seems to be "perpetual victim," so I feel like they'll go this way and frame it as if she's getting what she deserves for slapping him around. Ten extra points if they have Rhaenyra or Rhaenys there on hand to be like "Is this your king?"

I don't see them doing anything with Rhaena besides sending her away, and I actively don't want to see Baela going out there getting her dragon killed and her face burnt off in defense of Rhaenyra.

I honestly try to not think about s2 of this.

I was a hardcore asoiaf fan but I didn't like Feast or Dance. I read Dunk and Egg, but he didn't finish that either. And when F&B came out, I got the audiobook and I listened to it for a few hours, probably less than five, and I couldn't concentrate because I kept thinking "Did this bitch seriously package his story notes as a novel for sale??? This is an insult to storytelling."

And I deleted it.

It's the quality for one thing. It's the lack of diversity, it's the author not finishing anything, it's the fandom being 20% fantasy fans, 80% trump rally...

Like, in just 10 episodes HotD has managed to give a voice to pro-rape feminists. Didn't even know that was a thing until I saw it on Twitter.

I saw some of the leaked pics of Helaena at the funeral on my feed, didn't have to scroll far to see people just casually r-wording Helaena and acting like having six fingers is a killing offense since eugenics rhetoric is apparently thriving in this fandom.

And on top of all that, the story doesn't even make sense.

I don't want to be like "dramaturgically speaking" but narrative coherence is a thing. Just from bing chat (yes, I'm using bing 😣):

Narrative coherence is the degree to which a story makes sense. Coherent stories are internally consistent, with sufficient detail, strong characters, and free of significant surprises. The ability to assess coherence is learned and improves with experience. Individuals assess a story's adherence by comparing it with similar stories. The ultimate test of narrative sense is whether the characters act reliably. If figures show continuity throughout their thoughts, motives, and actions, acceptance increases. However, characters behaving uncharacteristically destroy acceptance.

This show has curb-stomped narrative coherence.

Like, take that scene where they killed Vaemond. The way they write it, Rhaenyra has come back after 6 years of never visiting her father to drag him off his deathbed so he can support her in taking Driftmark, the seat of house Velaryon, away from Velaryon people to give it to her son by Harwin Strong. Vaemond is killed for telling the truth.

With different lighting and music, that's peak tyranny. That's some Mad King Aerys shit. In full view of all the lords at court. Every single person in that courtroom is aware that Luke is a bastard and they've just witnessed a lord like themselves get beheaded over it. This isn't Daemon killing commoners. He's killing the lords and ladies of Westeros.

But there's no fallout. Nothing. All the lords of Westeros cease to matter. It's just another Tuesday to them.

Hell, they go even further and frame the scene like Viserys is Old Theoden fighting off the curse of Wormtongue. Otto, Alicent and her goblin children all but shrivel and wither from the sunlight that Rhaenyra brings as Vaemond is cut down by noble Daemon. In that scene, Dark Sister might as well be Andúril, Flame of Old Valyria, sword of justice.

There are shows that are easy to watch that we say are "no brain cells required," but HotD is like, "No brain cells allowed. Switch them off or put them on silent so you don't disturb anyone."

I have no hope for season 2. I would never rec this to anyone or say that I think the writing will improve. The foundation is shit. You can't build a strong s2 on a shit s1 unless you're writing a procedural or an anthology where nothing that comes before matters.

You can't undo things like Alicent supporting Aegon as king because of a misunderstanding. There's a limit to how many things you can retcon without destroying all sense of continuity and they've already gone beyond that in s1.

They're past plot holes. They have whole parts of the world that are just void of all thought. Alicent and Rhaenys are characters who respawn and disintegrate from scene to scene as needed. Corlys is three lines of dialogue in a trenchcoat. Daemon Targaryen is somehow, impossibly, a less-developed Damon Salvatore.

No optimism here.

I'm that jaded ex fan who's like, "hotd is a barren wasteland, riddled with racists, ableists and toxic stans, and those are just the writers. The very fandom air you breathe is a poisonous fume. Not with ten-thousand Lindelof-level writers could they fix this shit."

But that being said, I have a really bad habit of watching shit TV.

I've seen Catwoman more than 5 times.

Waterworld, Jonah Hex, Elektra, Daredevil (Ben Affleck and Colin Farrell), Battlefield Earth, Supernova. At least 8 of the Fast movies. All the Transformers. Dracula 2000. All the old school classics of bad cinema.

I haven't watched Morbius as yet and the only reason why is because I feel like Jared Leto is intentionally trying to become Nicholas Cage and I don't want to support that.

There is something about the cringe that hooks me. And with a TV series? That weekly cringe? That is peak entertainment.

It used to take me 4 sometimes 5 hours to watch and digest a single episode of Titans because there were so many questions to think about.

I hyperfixate on bad writing. Trying to figure out all the ways it went wrong and why and what they were trying to do. Once I start, I can't stop thinking about it. I'm hoping swhhw gets it out of my system, but I don't know.

Like, anybody can make good TV. Anybody can do that if you try hard enough. But truly horrible TV isn't supposed to exist. It's like 20 million an episode to make HotD? Nobody is supposed to invest that in a show where the showrunner doesn't even know how old the characters are. Bad TV shows are supposed to be snuffed out before they see the light of day.

But HotD is something special.

You don't accidentally end up with a Koolaid Dragon busting up through concrete. A director described that scene to a VFX crew. The actors had to rehearse that repeatedly. They had to do a read-through...

Like, just think about that.

And then they announce that they're going ahead with s2 without writers?!

That is insane. Part of me says look away, and the other part of me says that s2 of HotD will be something the likes of which I'll never see again.

I really don't want to watch S2, but honestly, I might. Not because I think it will be better but because I'm dead certain it can only get worse.

#long ass post #hotd rambling #answered asks #bad writing

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pessimisticpigeonsworld · 2 months

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Why do you think women like Aegon? I mean, they want a r*pist and and it's just weird.

I honestly have no idea how he has stans lmao. I understand liking a character who's a rapist, I like Ramsay Bolton and Euron Greyjoy as characters; I think they're interesting antagonists. But it's one thing to enjoy a character as a villain and a completely other thing to support, make excuses for, and deny the actions of a character.

Aegon is sympathetic to an extent; he had a fairly difficult childhood, with a father who was distant at best and a mother who physically abused him. However, he has an established pattern of dealing with his issues in destructive ways: bullying Aemond as a child and assaulting women and dealing in child trafficking as an adult. He's very much a textbook tragic backstory villain.

The issue with his portrayal on HOTD is that they went to far in trying to make him sympathetic. Hess even tried to excuse his raping of women. There's a deeper issue in HOTD's writing, just like there's a deeper issue with Aegon's fan base.

There are people with rape kinks, so I could see the attraction there for people who are into that. However, Aegon's stans aren't just indulging a kink, they're actively defending a rapist, so I don't believe that's the reason.

I'm not a psychologist, but I do know that often attraction to rapists/criminals in general is a symptom of some mental health things. I'm not saying that everyone who stans Aegon has a mental illness, but it is a thing in real life. I don't know if there is a connection there and I don't really want to speculate so I'll just leave that there lol.

Anyway anon, I wish I could answer your question in a real way, but the truth is I don't know. There's a lot of layers to the human mind, and however Aegon stans rationalize loving him so much isn't something I understand. I know Tom Glynn-Carney's looks probably factored into it, so maybe it's just an extension of the whole babygirl trend in fandoms.

#anti aegon ii targaryen #anti team green #anti team green stans #anti aegon stans #team black #house of the dragon #anti hotd #anti ryan condal #anti sarah hess

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atopvisenyashill · 3 months

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Dances of the dragons; what are things you like about the story in the show and book.

Well clearly I’m very fond of Rhaenyra and her little family. Something I really like exploring in fiction is ~blended families~ having been born into one myself and I find it fascinating especially in the pseudo-medieval context of a song of ice and fire. The complexity of balancing this family with what the world at large considers proper, of protecting this family when it's very existence is a threat to the established order of things.

I also really love the whole Aegon/Sunfyre and Baela/Moondancer stand off. I think the narrative aspects of it are amazing and it fits their characters so well. Baela being purposefully kept out of the war, kept even from defending Dragonstone, going off on this long shot stand off against the leader of the enemy faction and then she fails. I think what is often forgotten about Baela in this instance is that her amazing bravery is worth nothing in the end. Aegon still takes Dragonstone, Rhaenyra is still murdered, and worst of all, Moondancer dies and Sunfyre is mortally wounded. All she does is help kill two more dragons, help kill the power of her own family, sacrificing her own beloved dragon, her own agency later in life, for nothing not even a temporary win. Then you have Aegon as Sunfyre's only rider, Sunfyre feeling Aegon's distress and sacrificing his own life to come save Aegon, taking not one but two life ending crashes to the ground all for love of Aegon, and then just dying and leaving Aegon such a mess he's dragging Baela out and threatening to become a kinslayer with his own two hands in front of the entirety of King's Landing. The moment Sunfyre dies, Aegon is dead. They are too connected in a way many of the other bonds are not. It's not just like Vhagar or Caraxes mindlessly going into death because it's what their riders want from them; no, Sunfyre seeks death out in a vain attempt to save his rider, after Aegon goes through deliberate pains to separate himself from Sunfyre to spare Sunfyre the same fate as Vhagar, Caraxes, Arrax, or Meleys.

Also that final confrontation between Aegon and Rhaenyra - that i hope you died / you first, you are the elder exchange - is soooooo good. The way Aegon traumatizes the Younger the way Helaena and Jaehaera were, completely screwing over his own heir in his rage, and Rhaenyra's body isn't even safe from being sexually abused when she's dead.....George was cooking here.

As for the show, I think the casting is leaps and bounds better than the main show. I think probably the weakest links on the cast are (I'm about to get tomatoes thrown at me here) Ewan, Emily, and Sonoya but I don't think any of them are bad by any stretch. Emily does some amazing work showing Alicent's despair and anxiety and intelligence. I would put her on the same level as Maisie in the original show - she needs some time to find her feet as an actor but you can see her growing and changing as an artist and performer before your eyes. Sonoya has a bit of a lackluster script to work with (it's hard to adapt Mysaria, she's just a bunch of awful ~far east~ stereotypes rolled into one upsetting character) and she's also clearly struggling around her accent. I'm hoping she'll pull a Peter Dinklage next season and get used to the accent. Ewan is also here I guess (*kanye shrug* I think he looks too old and little Aemond was leagues better, sue me!!). But everyone else is just on their mark constantly, elevating the script with their own ideas or acting choices. And what I'll give Condal, Hess, and Miguel is that they also let the actors have a say in the characters. In my opinion, the best shows always include actor input. Three of my favorite shows in fact - Leverage, Battlestar Galactica, and Farscape - all include rather long arcs for several characters that came because the actors said "can we dig into what motivates my character more? i wrote out a backstory if you're interested" or "i'm not sure my character would react that way, i think it would go this way" and the writers listened and let them be part of the writing. I love to drag these writers for all the best ideas coming from the actors but I find it commendable that instead of plugging their ears to minor pushback like D&D did, they said "damn tom, olivia, this carriage scene is so much better the way you're doing it, go crazy" or "hey matt you're doing some great acting here, tell us what you're thinking, let's dig in" and emma has talked extensively about how they let them really dig into gender performance as they wrote the character.

Maybe that doesn't seem like a big compliment but, at the risk of sounding too cheesy, I think art is a conversation ya kno?! It's a push and pull between the performers, the writers, the cinematographers, the special effects, as well as the viewer. When you see art as a dictatorship, it stifles what you're saying. But when you bring in fresh eyes, when you collaborate, I think you are more likely to have a much more polished, much more beautiful end product. And I think in allowing like, Emily Carrey the ability to read her own queerness into Alicent and then portray that on screen made for an Alicent that feels so much more real than if Emily was forced to simply read the words on the page without emotionally connecting to it! Look at how Stephen Dillane and the guy who played Barristan were clearly phoning it in because they weren't listened to! Look at how clearly annoyed Gwendoline and Nikolaj were at the ending there because they didn't like how the plot was going! When the artists are involved in the making of their own craft, it's just better!

(but what about Rhys, you say, didn't you once say he had negative charisma? yes, yes he does, i think he's wildly overrated as an actor and i don't understand the appeal but i think otto himself is also devoid of charisma so rhys fits!! i am a hater sorry!!!)

Anyways, yes, I love Rhaenyra and Aegon because I love deranged gay older sister - violent beefy young brother duos from hell with all my heart, I love Baela the Burnt with all my heart, and I love all the actors and the collaborative nature of HOTD.

#asks #anons #the dance of the dragons #also i will stop myself from ranting about hardison/eliot and gina frolm bsg and the dog with two bones episodes of farscape aljsdflk #house of the dragon

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darklinaforever · 2 months

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https://www.tumblr.com/darklinaforever/745859767115857920/green-stan-it-was-implied-aegon-was-an-abuser-in?source=share

God, I love it when people use phrases like "Well, there's nothing to love here" when we talk about FEELINGS. Dude, it's a matter of taste. If you don't like a character, it's your business, other people may find him interesting. For example, I don't understand how people can like Daemon - so what? It's a matter of my perception. If people love Aegon, it means they see something in him. And don't even start talking about "pretty actor" - fans find Daemon, Aemond, and everyone else attractive, so that's not the point. Many people loved Aegon even before the series was released. Seriously, even the actor himself adores this character and finds him interesting and complex.

It's not because the actor finds his character complex that it really is.

Also, did I say anything about not liking a character over how you feel ?

The answer is no.

I repeat it countless times, but you Aegon II fans / stans spend your time repeating / saying the same thing to me in anonymous request, and I tell you the same thing again :

I don't care if you like Aegon II.

I don't like him and don't see what there is to like about him (even if I adore his actor for the version of HOTD). If you like it, good for you ! Everyone loves a good villain ! (Me for example, Alicent Hightower from Fire and Blood is one of my favorite villains of all time)

All I'm saying is don't make the characters something they're not. All I'm saying is that Aegon II is canonically a villain and an antagonist. And for Daemon, he is canonically a protagonists and a gray / complex character. Simple facts in themselves. No more no less.

Isn't it very difficult to understand what I'm saying after a while ? If ?

It's tiring having to repeat the same thing to yourself over and over again. I share my opinion on my tumblr. You don't like that ? Move on ? Instead of sending me something that I've already been told countless times !

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navree · 1 year

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Thouggts on alys? And alysmond

Oh God do I have thoughts on Alys and Alysmond, anon, you have no idea. Alys is likely going to become my second favorite character in the entire show the second she shows up (provided they don't screw her up) because I literally just love her so very much. And Alysmond is literally peak for me, they're my number one ship on this show.

I think Alys is a very interesting character. There's a lot about her that's shrouded in mystery in Fire&Blood, because she's not a Targaryen and she was only involved with the Targaryens for a very brief period of time, but even the stuff we do know lends itself towards a fascinating character. Alys as a character is a type of person we don't see a lot in stories in Westeros, particularly when it comes to points of view. She's a bastard, but unlike our other fave bastard, Mister Jon Snow, she's not treated nearly as well (not to say that Jon didn't suffer at Winterfell, he clearly did due to his bastard status and also the way Catelyn treated him). For one, she's a woman, which in general is cause for concern when living in Westeros, and for two, Lyonel treats her far worse than Ned treated Jon. Ned made Jon a part of his family, did treat him as his son, raised him as a brother to his trueborn children, and while he didn't do much when it came to Catelyn's shit of "oh he can't sit with us on Such and Such occasion because he's too bastardly" and "oh yeah no once you leave I'm gonna kick him out of the house at the ripe old age of fourteen unless he decides to join the cult border patrol that tells him to never have a family or a wife or kids and also has to fight ice zombies" he does still love Jon and care for him and look out for his emotional and physical wellbeing as best as he can. None of that seems to be present for Alys and Lyonel, by all counts he looked at his own daughter and made her a freaking servant! Sir that is your child! So Alys comes from this place of living amongst the privileged but being disprivileged in so many different ways, due to her birth status and her gender and her class, to say nothing of being an apparent old gods worshipper in a location of Westeros that was pretty firmly vested in the Seven.

I think Alys was very molded by her circumstances, that she's not just crafty and fiercely intelligent but also incredibly observant, that having been someone who would likely be in the "should be seen but not heard and even then barely seen" category of life, knows what to look for and how to use the information she can process to her advantage. I also think that Alys is a very neutral person, personality wise, very even keeled, given that we see her being the level head in several situations, like stopping Aemond from killing that messenger. Alys is gonna live her life to the best of her abilities and not feel too much about things, because having strong emotions about nonsense isn't really useful for surviving in the real world and as such doesn't serve. But she's still got her moments of softness. For one, we know that she had children prior to her son with Aemond, and also that all of them were stillborn, so that speaks to some intimacy with someone at some point, and, given that she's a "woods witch" and that people do have access to shit like moon tea in this world, a desire to at least have a family rather than just be firm on contraception. I also have a theory that she and Larys were actually close when they were younger (since I think she's around the same age as Harwin and Larys), due to their respective disadvantages drawing them close, the servant bastard daughter and the clubfooted second son. I like the idea of them hanging around in the forests around Harrenhal, Larys looking for special bugs and Alys wanting to gather fun herbs that she'd heard about to see what they do. I think that they're actually close, and that Larys probably does consider her the person he's closest to emotionally (my own pet theory is that he sent a warning to her about the fire at Harrenhal so that she'd be able to survive, and knowing she wouldn't stop it due to likely not having any sort of relationship with Harwin and her antipathy towards Lyonel and the way he treated her in childhood). I also do want to remark on just how smart Alys must be, to have survived in such a dangerous world for as long as she did, and to thrive. I picture her as someone who is oddly charismatic, charismatic enough to win over the people at Harrenhal in the absence of their actual liege, and keep herself alive. Harrenhal was taken by the Blacks first, and Daemon is not a very patient or understanding person, not to mention something of a raging misogynist, so it's entirely possible that the situation could have gone badly for her if she hadn't played it really well, which she clearly did, since Daemon let her live. She's smart and resourceful but also true to herself to the utmost degree, doesn't hide her magic or her old gods worship (which she likely took some sort of comfort in during her early years) and has made herself a survivor without losing any of her humanity in the process. She's so rich and layered, she has the potential to be the best character in the entire GOT/HOTD TV franchise.

As for Alysmond.........oh baby. It makes me fucking nuts. Even the way it starts off is so feral, given that Aemond basically wiped House Strong out in a single day and for some reason, the only person he didn't kill was Alys. We have absolutely zero clue why he did this; did she just not show him any fear? Did she appear apathetic enough about the deaths of the other Strongs that he thought it was interesting? Was there just something about her? Who knows, but from minute one there was something about Alys that jumped out to Aemond, and like vice versa. Again, Daemon took Harrenhal first, spent time there, and as Lyonel's only child in the castle, Alys would have likely engaged with him. But there's no record of them having an affair, and it's not because Daemon's a faithful family man who'd never dream of cheating on Rhaenyra; Alys is likely the one who just was not interested. But something about Alys and Aemond drew them to each other, and there's so much space to think about why. Aemond's had a much easier life than Alys, but that doesn't necessarily make it an easy life in and of itself, he's had to deal with the bullying and the being attacked and maimed and all the trials that came with his physical disability after losing an eye, to say nothing of the emotional issues he's had already that have only gotten worse by the time he's at Harrenhal (remember, his time at Harrenhal comes after Blood and Cheese happen as revenge for his "murder" of Lucerys and after Aegon names him regent after saving him at Rook's Rest, Aemond's got so much guilt and fear and self loathing and family issues wrapped up in him by the time he gets to Harrenhal it's a wonder he didn't explode). Having both had childhoods feeling disconnected from their families, albeit in a different ways, is a connection that they actually share, feeling like you're living on the margins of your society due to things outside your control is a connection that they share, even just feeling like they don't fit in and that they're wrong somehow is something they share, though Alys probably got over that a while ago while Aemond is still young and angsty. I also see Aemond as someone who's felt that he has to work for love, that it's conditional (I blame Viserys) and who feels that if he's not perfect, the people he cares about most, like his mother and his siblings, are going to stop loving him, and he's never had a relationship where he feels he can be himself with no reservations and whatever softness the other person is feeling won't go away. His relationship with Alys, even before it got physical/romantic, is likely the first time in his life where he's feeling like he doesn't need to strive for someone's love or affection. For Alys, Aemond's likely the first person who actually sees her as someone entirely herself. We know from Jon's ASOIAF chapters that part of the issue with a bastard growing up in the lord father's castle is that everyone they know sees them as "Lord X's bastard" first and foremost, even members of their family (like the way narration about Jon from other Stark kids have them refer to him as "bastard brother" even if they have a good relationship, like Arya or Bran). Everyone around Harrenhal, for her entire life, views Alys through the lens of "Lyonel's bastard daughter" and "Larys's bastard sister", and Aemond is probably the first person who doesn't, who just sees Alys Rivers as Alys Rivers, and even if she's less emotionally fragile that Aemond just through age and experience, that's still profound. I also like that there's a lot of room to play with how they went from just cohabitating Harrenhal to being out and out lovers. Aemond could tell her the truth about Luke, Alys could use some of her woods witch knowledge to help him with some chronic pain with his eye, there can be a moment where Vhagar lets Alys touch her in a sort of "Meemaw approves" thing. The possibilities to build up to them as a couple are endless and also extremely compelling. And romantic.

And once they become a couple, it's romantic as all Hell. For one, even with some of the power dynamics involved (Alys is technically a prisoner of war), it's still a pretty equal relationship. They listen to each other and their counsel, given that Aemond is willing to stay his hand when Alys stops him from killing that messenger, and that this does seem to be a relationship where they were both clearly enthusiastic and also able to trust each other, like Alys not being worried once Sabitha Frey takes her hostage after Aemond leaves. And the canon stuff is just...Aemond being so into Alys everyone can tell, being so besotted that he can't bear the thought of leaving her, having left Harrenhal and then doubling back, into enemy territory, to set an entire castle on fire just so that he can save her and get her back. The way that after that, he literally refuses to part with her, and they stay together until God's Eye, until the literal end, and the horrible doomed tragedy of the fact that they both likely knew that God's Eye was It, given that Alys has her old gods magic that helps her see the future and Ewan said that thing about Aemond having some sense of when and how and where he's gonna die, ugh the Tragical Romance. And I know there are people who are like "Aemond just dicking around Harrenhal and get a girlfriend while his family's in trouble makes no sense for his character" but like here's the thing. For one, he's not dicking around, he and Criston are in the Riverlands for a reason and they're doing shit, not to mention this happens pretty late in the game. For two, he can't go back and just retake King's Landing. Beyond the logistical nightmare, he needs to worry about his family. No one knows where Aegon even is, and most importantly, Rhaenyra does have hostages in King's Landing, Aemond's mother and Aemond's sister, that she can absolutely kill if Aemond's attempt to retake King's Landing isn't one hundred percent perfect on the first try. So him staying at Harrenhal and doing what he needs to do for the war out in the field is in fact in character, and if he happens to fall hopelessly and desperately and utterly in love with the hot goth witch in the meantime, that's just one of the perks. And it is love, I wholeheartedly believe they're in love. It's the coming back to Harrenhal that clinches it, if Aemond didn't really care, he wouldn't have done such a fast U-turn on Vhagar and gotten so vicious, but that's exactly what he did because maybe he can't save his family but he can save Alys, save their unborn child, allow himself to be well and truly happy for a little while longer. And if Alys didn't care, then she wouldn't have gone with him afterwards. She wouldn't have left Harrenhal with him, or stayed with him through their journey, or told him where to find Daemon, or even stayed to watch him die. Plus, I mean, the last thing Aemond ever does with two feet on solid Earth is kiss Alys goodbye, most romantic shit I've ever seen.

Her dragon. His lady. His Alys.

TL;DR I think Alys is going to be a top three character for me when she appears cuz she's already a top ten character for me in Fire&Blood, and Alysmond's relationship is literally so important to me it's the epitome to true love on this show no one else is even going to touch it.

#personal #answered #anonymous #alys rivers #alysmond #(also re: the jon stuff i'm not anti catelyn)#(well i kinda am but that's more that her personality rubs me the wrong way so much of the time even tho i really enjoy her chapters)#(but even beyond that i do think it's fair to point out that she treated jon badly)#(she had her reasons for it and they're understandable and sympathetic but she still did it)#anyway anon i could kiss you on the mouth i ADORE alys #and i adore her relationship with aemond so much it's literally my fave hotd ship #it's my third favorite f&b ship in general cuz first and second place go to the conquerors #and yes she does refer to him as a dragon and of course #aemond does out loud say 'my lady my alys' in front of like god and everyone #those are basically his last words

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