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whenthechickencry · 3 months

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Umineko EP8. Replay Part 3

Bernkastel figuring out that "Lambdadelta's plan" is bullshit was slowed down by the fact she had no friends.

EVA uses her magic to clear the sea of kitties from the room with the key, giving Ange and Battler a chance. EVA leaves letters with a red string to guide Ange, and Ange remarks that they can be trusted because they were written by someone who was always at her side... Narration remarks how Ange would get hurt a lot by the cat box being opened towards all, but the goats couldn't care less... Everyone's fighting to the best of their strength, with no mistakes and - Goddamnit Gohda.

Erika finds out the truth and everyone tries to murder her immediately, Beatrice tells her to fuck off. Meanwhile, Bernkastel finds out the trick and forces attacks on Battler's group. Ange decides that even a 1% chance to live is a chance worth taking, I am so happy to see how she has changed her view. Lambdadelta makes herself lose to rock paper scissors, deciding to certainly not be a spectator and go with them for the happy ending.

They are using the power of 3d to have basic candy models explode during this ending, btw. And whales. It's really cute how much their love and friendship is remarked over and over. Even when blowing each other up no one can argue the fact they love each other.

We cut to the fight for the Golden Land again here, Then back to Ange and Battler. Ange feels about going back alone, and then Battler tells her that she must fight and we get this interaction....

It makes me very happy every time the game remarks how Ange has grown. Anyways, Bern eats Lambda and Lambda explodes inside of her.

Oh huh.... now that I think about it those ep2 scenes with Shannon and Kanon certainly were interesting in that they established Shannon and Kanon as real people people outside Rokkenjima can perceive.

All the talk about how people's recollections of you can give way to half-truths that don't match up to the fullness of that person is making me think about how the way people close to me have died and how the way people remember them has hurt me and others in my life, it's definitely, won't go into detail too much but this scene's giving me a lot to think about.

Erika calls Rosa a serial cheater which is.... never the vibe I got from her remotely? I don't think there's much to say about her relationship with Maria's dad, but everything afterward gave off the vibes of not being in a committed enough relationship for "cheating" to be a thing. Aaaah, I feel really bad for Erika in spite of everything now...

Erika and Beatrice get into a final duel, Beatrice saying they have already won because Ange is already choosing to live in the future. We cut back to Battler and Ange, Featherine arrives and Lambdadelta starts freaking out.

The moment where Lambda attacks still feels really cool even on reread. I actually like it way more on reread now that I saw how Lambdadelta was such an ally the entire time....

Featherine simply writes that Lambdadelta is already dead, though, and Lambda can't even understand what happened... Lambdadelta calls her a monster.

I... honestly forgot the punch for a second myself. Was shocked at the same time Featherine was. Bernkastel "remembering what pain is" and these lines really do kind of demystify Bernkastel and make it pretty obvious how she's a bitter person who hates Beatrice and co for human reaons, I think.

Bernkastel is also the main character in some game board, so this is her lashing out against herself as well. And the complete abandonment of Featherine is a little sad to think from her perspective.

Bernkastel pulls the red truth that no one will come back to her towards Ange again, Battler dies in front of Ange, but even if Ange still struggles at seeing this, it's not like she hasn't gone through this song and dance a couple times now... she won't let the red truth destroy her miracle.

The tacit inclusion here of Beatrice as part of her family makes me so happy I want to cry.

Ange's eagle fucking explodes the whale oh my god, Bernkastel then just keeps throwing red truths at Ange that definitely won't work anymore. Bernkastel is turned into a kitty. Featherine reveals Lambda is safe in the audience seat.

Ange goes on to make her choice in front of the 2 golden doors...

Ange assures everyone that this isn't goodbye... not because they will always be with her, but because she still believes in them coming back to her. After making her choice, and being given the doll by Kinzo, Ange is back at the top of the skyscraper and she makes the decision to step back. Ange has decided to live.

EVA and Battler close the door that leads into Ange's future, confident she can handle things on her own from now.

Erika has... mixed feelings about the events it seems. With how many insults she threw at Ange for wanting to kill herself I got the vibe she didn't want Ange to kill herself. Not like she'd be broken up about it either but I think her ideal ending was the trick ending, having someone who can understand what the truth did to her. She seems a a bit both impressed and displeased she can live with the truth while not turning into a bitter person. Battler cheers up by saying she isn't a witch at all, but the detective.

Hachijo takes away the Book of Single truth and chides them for disturbing the sleep of the dead with rumors, and takes the book herself. Life became a little easier for Ange as people are less willing to be goats.

We cut to Battler the scene of Battler and Beatrice in the same place where Kinzo and Beatrice met, Beatrice shows the motorboat to Battler and tells him to leave.

I am going to cry even though I remember this scene perfectly.... Sayo definitely does not consider her life worth living anymore. All the cousins except Battler are dead, and she blames herself for that. She already didn't consider her life worth living before everything happened but after seeing the state of Rokkenjima, man, I can't imagine her mental state, even if Battler probably eased her heart a little... Battler takes her off Rokenjima but it's just not that easy. She's playing strong for Battler's sake, too... putting up the Beatrice persona. But her heart is too wrecked by now and it's too late.

This scene is destroying me. I want her to reach the realization Ange did. I want her to be able to see the futures thtat I am sure she could have achieved.... but I know how this ends and every line destroys me more and more.

Beatrice tells Battler that she is an evil witch who can't keep living.

Battler and Beatrice and Battler fall down with the catbox, together, forever.

Ange thanks Okonogi for being the person to her that without love, the truth can't be seen. Okonogi was given in the Ushiromiya group so he's obviously pretty happy with the arrangement, and this also guarantees Ange's survival by making sure no one will be after her.... Ange reveals how she's going to in a journey and becoming an author so she can impart magic to other children.

Ange opens up her life as the last witch, ANGE BEATRICE.

#umineko #umiepisode8

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pochapal · 6 months

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quite early into the Umineko analysis you raised a Kanon Culprit Theory with central consideration given to his particular ability to give the umbrella and letter to Maria, motive in regard to protecting Sayo, and connections among the servants that provide possible accomplices. Do you still think this is a part of the truth, after his death in chapter 14? Why / why not?

Kanon Culprit Theory is something that's developed quite a bit since my initial suspicions in chapter 7. for me i think the logistics of the theory remain true (kanon is the one who appeared in the garden and is the one who gave maria the umbrella and the letter) and i do think kanon's ultimate motive in a lot of what he did was to save shannon, but i'm leaning less towards kanon being a mastermind and more kanon being an unwilling accomplice with an agenda of his own.

i think Kanon Culprit Theory worked well as an opening wedge to considering the ways a conspiracy between servants would work, since regardless of his agency in the crimes kanon still sits at the intersection of all these schemes as an easily tuggable thread. i think kanon's desire to save shannon and his rage against the abuse on rokkenjima holds true, although it's now more evident that this was fuel for his act of rebellion at the very end than necessarily a drawn out revenge plot against the ushiromiya family. don't get me wrong i think kanon isn't necessarily opposed to the idea of people dying to get what he wants, but i think painting him as the orchestrator is wrong.

my prevailing thought is that the beatrice narrative is a posthumous scheme thought out by kinzo and enforced by genji, using the trappings of loyalty and abuse to keep the servants on side as useful accomplices (aside from maybe gohda). they sing songs of beatrice to the ushiromiya family well enough and this will guarantee their survival of the massacre to come. the ultimate goal of this plan was, i believe, to lead to kanon solving the epitaph and inheriting kinzo's wealth and for shannon to become his "beatrice", perpetuating kinzo's will and the cycle of violence in a way that leaves the ushiromiyas with the short end of the stick. perhaps as an iterative echo of whatever warcrimes landed kinzo the gold in the first place - the kinzo myth and the beatrice myth perpetuated through groomed inheritors who should lack the ability to say "no".

shannon and kanon are assumed to comply due to their positions as powerless orphan servants who aren't even permitted their own names. the wrinkle in the theory is genji doing this, but it works if you consider genji to be motivated by some kind of deep devotion - almost love, if not explicitly - towards kinzo. he sees himself as the man's "furniture". the one thing furniture can always be counted on to to is uphold its master's will. genji has little to live for outside of rokkenjima and kinzo, and with kinzo dead, he has no reason not to carry out this final commitment to the man he dedicated half a century of his life to.

of course this plan went awry from the outset, given the fact that shannon died in whatever struggle led to the creation of the first twilight, and then kanon has since that moment been biding his time to rebel against the plan at the optimal moment. i think so long as at least one of the two of them lived to the end then the plan would be a "success", but both of them dead before the epitaph murders are halfway done is a screaming sign that this scheme has been derailed. i'm not sure what will happen vis a vis genji and The Plan now, since i think chapter 14 makes it evident there might be another element at play (i am still puzzling that one out in the writeup, so more answers on this area will be forthcoming then).

#fatesealyou

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heartinhands · 1 year

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@spirestar said:⚡ an angry text. ( letter ) BEATO FOR BATTLEEEEERRRRRRR

Being made to love is difficult when Beatrice is also eternally wrapped up in the red-web of hate. It had been complicated being cast from the nameless ruler of Rokkenjima's night, the witch who played tricks on the island inhabitants, into a love-struck girl, with a heart so fit to bursting the color red threatened to spill her guts onto the floor. It's disgusting, and beautiful, and disgusting still--Beatrice still cannot fully comprehend the why of it all. Battler is foolish, stupid, his head lodged firmly in the clouds, arrogant mouth always curved into a shape that doesn't suit it, speaking words he doesn't truly believe only because it means he can use them as weapons. It is his greatest strength.

Ronove encouraged she write a letter and burn it. It's the sort of advice a tired parent gives their frustrated teenager, but Beatrice takes the advice and runs, stooped over at the countertop of her desk in the parlor of the metaworld, making sure she triple-locks the door behind her, trapping the illusion of the witch within.

Her quill pen moves fiercely, golden ink occasionally blotting the parchment when it stills--Beatrice was made from words, and they too are her greatest weapon, so it's easy to put it to paper. Especially when the subject of her affection derision will never see it in the end. It's easier being an illusion, make no mistake of that--Beatrice the Golden will never be human.

Battler.

You will never remember your sin. Not while I'm alive, anyway. This won't stop me from asking you if you do. It doesn't matter, not really, I wasn't born yet, and without your sin I never would have known life--at least not in the way a witch like me experiences it. But that little seed sprouted into the ribs of my golden cage, and it is because of you that I am like this, and I can't ever begin to fathom the why of it all, only that it is. This is a letter, so I cannot speak to you in red, and red ink isn't the same as red truth, but if you ask for some kind of proof, just know that I am bleeding out on this page for you.

The rest she scribbles out in a fugue. There's words like furniture / love / heart / mystery / and something about 'without love you cannot see'. Beatrice doesn't think about it anymore as she writes, and she furiously scrawls back over her words in loops, the gold ink seeping through the page and bleeding onto the quartz countertop of her desk, smearing into her fingers. She could magic it away, but she doesn't. She doesn't let herself think back on anything she just wrote. Beatrice holds a lighter ( a human trinket, one she doesn't need to use when she can simply snap her fingers and immolate anything immediately ) to the tangled veins of her heart on paper, holds it over the wastebasket, and lets it fall, ashes and all.

#umineko spoilers //#i tried to come up with a whole letter then i gave up because i got embarrassed #but i like what i came up with anyways.#spirestar #asks.#beatrice: ic.#long post //

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2centsoframblings · 2 years

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Two cents of ramblings on: “Umineko no naku koro ni” (Anime)...

...and why I STRONGLY DON’T recommend it (read the novel or the manga instead, they're AWESOME!).

GENERAL DATA

Title: Umineko no Naku Koro ni (うみねこのなく頃に“When the seagulls cry”)

Media: Anime television series

Adaptation of: Umineko no Naku Koro ni (うみねこのなく頃に “When the seagulls cry”) shōnen dōjin soft visual novel by Ryukishi07 and 07th expansion.

Genre: Murder mystery, psychological thriller, supernatural horror

Directed by: Kon Chiaki

Written by: Kawase Toshifumi

Studio: Studio Deen

Original run: July 2, 2009 – December 24, 2009

Episodes: 26

WARNINGS: There are gruesome murders, psychological and physical torture, nakedness, abuse.

The plot in short: On October 4, 1986 for the annual family conference, the Ushiromiya family gather on Rokkenjima island, a small island owned by the family head, Kinzō, who also reside there and whose health is declining. Among the family members there’s Ushiromiya Battler, one of Kinzō’s nephews, who comes back after a 6 years absence. A storm traps the family, the servants and the family doctor on the island, while a letter from the Golden Witch, Beatrice, challenges them to solve the epitaph so as to find Kinzō’s secret stash of gold or die according to the epitaph.

HOW DID I STUMBLE INTO IT

As I watched “Higurashi no naku koro ni” and “Higurashi no naku koro ni Kai” I thought I might enjoy this series as well.

THINGS YOU MIGHT WHAT TO KNOW BEFORE TACKLING THIS

This story is filled with murders which are gruesome in nature and depiction (and I’ll show some images of them). The TV version censors them by blurring/covering the scenes but the dvd version shows them in all their gory nature. You might not feel like stomaching them. The anime also covers only the first part of the story. A second anime covering “Umineko no naku koro ni Chiru” was never realized so the only way to see the end of the story is to either read the Visual Novel or read the excellent manga transposition. This series is also split in 4 arcs, each of them proposing a different version of what happened on Rokkenjima on those fateful days. Also I reference “Higurashi no naku koro ni” and mention “Golden Kamuy”.

MY TWO CENTS ON IT

THE SHORT VERSION… or what I can tell you about this while trying to keep spoilers at the very bare minimum.

Opening & ending: The anime uses as opening “Katayoku no Tori” (片翼の鳥 ‘One-Winged Bird’) by Shikata Akiko and as ending “La Divina Tragedia: Makyoku” (la divina tragedia～魔曲～ ‘The Divine Tragedy: Diabolic Song’) by Jimang from Sound Horizon.

I love the opening, the mixing of Italian text and Japanese one, Shikata Akiko’s voice so perfect as she sings this. Although the opening is the same through all the episodes, the visual changes 4 times, so that in a way the 4 arcs all have visually different openings, though sometimes the differences aren’t that radical. Although the visual might remember the opening of a visual novel (but this series had birth as a visual novel so it’s fitting) the images often well match with the rhythm and the words of the song, creating an iconic opening many love. The ending also has a beautiful music, through the visual, after a quick panning of a long chessboard, is mostly of scenery which don’t really match the song in any way. The only noteworthy bit is the one at the end that shows two empty chairs, then Battler and Beatrice on them, then they disappear from them. Still, the most of the anime viewers who also know the Visual Novel and the manga, agree that the opening and the ending are one of the few great things of the anime.

The plot: Now the plot of “Umineko no naku koro ni” is intriguing, deep, mysterious, elaborate, psychologically and socially well studied, in short, AMAZING! Too bad the anime cuts it so much it’s barely understandable. It feels more like watching a messed up summary, the changes affecting the mystery parts so that the solution of some mysteries becomes impossible.

The characters: Although this story has a VERY LARGE cast (Just the Ushiromiya family counts 12 members plus there are 5 servants and a guest, the doctor, for a total of 18, plus there’s Beatrice and all her magical underlings and let’s not forget Ange, Bern and Lambda... yeah, as I said a VERY LARGE cast) the characters are well studied from a psychological point of view, they’re deep and intriguing and well characterized… or better, they are as such in the visual novel and the manga. The many cuts of the anime, the poor adaptation of scenes made by cutting dialogues or changing them or changing expressions or not showing them or generally making a mess of things made pretty hard to get to know most of them and will mislead you on who they are or how their character is. In short, a mess.

The visual: Let’s start with the ‘up’ side. The anime improved Ryukishi07’s art so the character design is kind of better than his own. Not great, I’m not even sure I’ll call it good but… it’s better. And that’s the only nice thing I can say because, for everything else, the visual is poor. Scenery, shots, characters’ expressions, characters’ position, quality of the graphic… You name it it’s a mess that drags in even in some illustrations for the anime and in the dvd version. Even the Pachinko game is better than this mess.

The musical background: Actually this one is one of the few very good things. The people working on it where mostly the same of the ones making the music for the visual novel so they keep the same atmosphere and, hey, the visual novel had beautiful music so this works for the anime too. This is a BGM you can enjoy to listen.

Overall: Someone might remember I had no flattering words for the “Golden Kamuy” anime adaptation. Well, the “Golden Kamuy” anime adaptation is a masterpiece compared to “Umineko no naku koro ni” because, even though they share many flaws, at least the visual is, despite not being great, way better and there’s not all this interest in showing breasts and backsides in place of what we need to see.

THE LONG VERSION… or what I loved and hated about this with, of course, TONS OF SPOILERS.

I started my “Umineko no naku no koro ni” experience with this anime and, after finishing it, I didn’t want to hear anything else about it. It wasn’t like “Golden Kamuy”, a poor adaptation but that still was good enough it encouraged me to read the manga. It just discouraged me from having anything to do with the story. If it wasn’t for a friend who insisted and persuaded me to give the visual novel a chance, assuring me it was good and the anime messed up, I would have never known how AWESOME the source material was.

This adaptation lacks direction, it’s as if Studio Deen picked up hoping it would sell as “Higurashi no naku koro ni” did but then they felt confuse by how the story was different and had no idea how to process it.

They put hardly any effort in the visual.

There’s a senseless abuse of creepy/deformed faces (mostly with Maria)...

...but, apart from this, compared to the visual novel where the characters have an EXTREMELY LARGE range of expressions, here they have a rather poor one, often not even showing them. The scenery is not so great and all the anime seems to love showing are gruesome scenes,

creepy faces and… giggling breasts and waving backsides or characters in inappropriate poses (when George cries over his mother’s body, the scene seems to focus more on how he rubs his face in his mother’s breasts than on his grief),

the changes of scenes are poor and, often abrupt. Some shots are simply horrid, the proportions of the characters messed up...

...some movements are so weird they seemed comical when they aren’t meant to...

and the shoots are often bad, cutting heads...

... or being rather weird...

...or focusing on breasts and backsides (sometimes placing the characters in uncomfortable poses to have a better shoot at their backside) instead than on what characters are doing or on their expression in a way that’s not even sexy in such circumstances.

Characters often don’t react appropriately (When George is griefstriken and supposedly unable to support himself Battler and Jessica hold him as if he were a sack of potatoes, apart from Nanjō no one seems to care Jessica is coughing her lugs out...)

The cuts from a scene to the other are a mess because, often, too abrupt, with characters’ dialogues ending up being mistaken for the continuation of the previous scene.

They had no interest in having us solve the epitaph, which gets barely any attention… which okay, I can partly understand but still…

They actually had no interest in us solving the mystery either. Ryukishi07 said he would work with Studio Deen but somehow communication should have been lacking because the anime adapted some scenes in such a way that the intended solution becomes impossible (Nanjō taking care of Kanon’s wound in front of everyone so that they would see there’s no wound, Natsuhi also being shoot in front of everyone so for Beatrice it’s impossible to hide the letter Natsuhi had with herself...).

They hardly made an effort to characterize the characters. Where they were complicate people now they’re AT BEST given a character trait and that’s it. Sometimes not even that and they just loom in the background (episode 1 even forget to show Nanjō’s name).

This comes especially bad in regard to Beatrice and to the one character who’s the true identity of Beatrice, but also in regard to Battler and Ange’s feelings.

We’re talking of main characters here, not of side characters, those at least should have been well cared for.

They cut a lot, indiscriminately, but then they were totally capable to waste time for things that weren’t needed like random shots of the weather worsening, or of the clock when they could have just showed it in the background behind the characters.

Now, credits when it’s due, the visual novel is a massive work.

It was impossible to transpose its first 4 arcs in 26 episodes, 26 episodes are barely enough for 2 arcs, not 4. So if it was just the cutting… I guess I wouldn’t be so negative.

But here it’s more than just cutting, here it’s lack of care.

I’ve seen fans animating the final sequence of the dialogue between Battler and Beatrice way better than the anime did. I’ve seen the Pachinko game make the characters way more expressive than the anime did, with the tiny bit they animated with jerky animation being way better transposition than the anime one.

I don’t know why things went so bad with the anime, why they missed the good spots of this AWESOME story (the characters’ dept, the social themes, the mystery) to focus just on gory scenes (which are drawn in that sort of ugly way that doesn’t impress you, more like disgust you not for the gory scene but for the animation), breasts and backsides and creepy, almost insane faces as if they came to believe this was what made “Higurashi no naku koro ni” good and, in order to make this series good as well, they would need to recycle those plot elements and nothing more. Because yeah, they had ”Higurashi no naku koro ni” in mind as we have extra scenes showing Maria watching some random scenes from the “Higurashi no naku koro ni” anime.

To sum it all… read the visual novel or the AMAZING, AWESOME manga adaptation which, in the “Umineko no naku koro ni Chiru” part contains improved scenes but watch the anime solely after them… if you really have to watch it, because boys… it’s ugly and messy and misleading and really, it would seriously need a remake but I doubt they’ll even make one since the fact this mess was a commercial flop apparently discouraged Japanese producers who missed the fact that if the anime was a flop it was solely because the anime was poorly done, not because the story was lacking.

And now let's end this with an AMV about this series I recommend watching: Dolls of Rokkenjima 2.0

youtube

#Umineko no naku koro ni #Umineko when they cry #murder mystery #psychological thriller #Supernatural Horror #Studio Deen #anime television series #Shounen #Strongly not recommended #2009

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ushiromiyacestcentral · 4 months

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Umineko anime AU where it deviates from the visual novel enough where Maria survived the massacre along with Eva and may have had a hand in starting it and Eva spoils Maria rotten to make up for how she treated Rosa so poorly and Maria becomes the new head, and when she’s a adult she takes over as the ushiromiya heiress and before Ange jumps off the building she locks Maria in her room until Lambdadelta finds Maria in her room and offers her a deal as Her Miko and Maria agrees to it to help Ange using the codename “ Hansel” in the gameboard to mirror Ange’s codename Gretel, and Maria lasts longer then Ange, and in the gameboard Maria starts to recover her memories and break the amnesia she had since she hit her head accidentally on a rock all those years ago at Rokkenjima, and it turns out the younger version of Maria on the Gameboard turns out to be Black!Maria or Black!Witch Maria ( similar to black battler) as Black!Maria is birthed from the Maria ushiromiya culprit theory since sayo used her name as her pen name to write letters in the bottle, once Maria and the others defeat Black!Maria bernkastel and Erika, Ange and Maria leaves the gameboard feeling a sense of purpose and fulfillment in knowing their family loves them, the two witches of the future finding comfort love and value in each other.

#umineko #Umineko anime #Umineko AU #Umineko ange #ushiromiya ange #ushiromiya maria #umineko Maria #ange x Maria #Marige #Mariange #ushiromiyacest

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deepsealiveblog · 2 years

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more mystery time! something tells me this is going to be a major point of contention in the story: is this beatrice from the letter one of the people who we know about on the island, or is she a 19th person who’s hiding somewhere on rokkenjima? there’s definitely gonna be difficulties either way. if she is a 19th person, how did she get on the island and where is she now? and if beatrice is one of the 18, when did they do all this and how did they without anyone else knowing?

(and i did count: there is currently 18 people we know about on this island. 12 ushiromiya family members, 5 servants, and the doctor.)

#umineko spoilers #umineko liveblog #legend of the golden witch

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luluvsumineko · 3 years

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okay, real quick my thoughts on the end of episode 1, very paraphrased since i no good when brain use too long

the tea party.

so im told this is based off of something from the higurashi, but its clear that the narative in this is very seperate from the one in the actual episode. I imagine that from now on, the events on rokkenjima are going to be one seperate world, and the tea party battle of wits between battler and beato are gonna be in this second tea party dimension, while peering into the “real” world. What bothers me is the acknoledgement by battler and co that they are from a story called umineko. Are they just,, accepting that they aren’t real? are they accepting of their fictional deaths? i am confusion.

but back in “fictional” rokkenjima world, I AM HAVING IDEAS. they entire ending credits roll paints this as some real crime drama. The ending that we saw and the tea party heavily tries to lean on the “beatrice did it” theory, but i have come up with my own idea of how a human on the island could have done it

a majority of my thought process and brainstorming id did in my stream of ep 1 at the end, but i’ll give the cliffnotes version right now.

I think there are three culprits in this case: Rudolf, Kyrie, and Doctor Nanjo.

First, Kyrie siguises herself as Beatrice and gives Maria the letter. She then changes back for the On the night before the incident, Rudolf told Battler and Kyrie that he suspects he might die. However, this is an act put on by Rudolf and Kyrie in order to draw suspicion away from the two of them. And also possibly to mislead Battler in his deductions. This leads to the night of the first “six” murders. Rudolf and Kyrie work together to pick off Rosa and Krauss. Then them manipulate either Shanon or Gohda into giving them the rose garden shed key. They also would have taken the ring of keys that Shanon and Gohda have at this point. Once they had that, they just had to kill them off and set up the scene in the shed. After the bodies were mutilated, they simply had to cover their own faces with blood in order disguise themselves and wait to be dicovered with the rest of the bodies. This is where Dr. Nanjo comes in. Knowing of the plan, he confirms the deaths of everyone in the shed, including Rudolf and Kyrie. With the two of them dead in the eyes of the survivors, the two of them could start to act as the “19th person” hiding on the island killing them off.

For Kinzo’s disappearance and death, I believe it went just as Battler deduced: Kinzo waited until the receipt seal on the door had already been broken before leaving his room. From there, Rudolf and Kyrie jumped him and killed him.

The reason I believe both Rudolf and Kyrie are the culprits is because of the Eva and Hideyoshi locked room. What i believe the solution to this locked room mystery is requires two people to work together. First the killer, who I am assuming is Kyrie, knocks on Eva and Hideyoshi’s door and is allowed to enter. With the element of suprise, Kyrie kills them both with those stakes, and sets up Eva’s body on the bed. While still inside the room, Kyrie locked it with the chain. When Genji and Kanon tried entering and left to get help, Kyrie quickly unlocked the door, drew the Glyph, left the second letter, and relocked the door. Before anyone could break in, Kyrie then hid under the bed. Meaning, that, when the whole cast entered Eva and Hideyoshi’s room, the killer was still inside the room. This would have been a very risky move, if not for their plan of attack.

While Kyrie was killing Eva and Hideyoshi, Rudolf had put Kinzo’s body inside the furnace, letting the stench of a dead body spread through the house, and then hid in the boiler room’s shadows. This was bait used to lure someone down to the boiler room, so that Rudolf could kill them. The shock of a another murder, or at least an attack, would be enough to distract everyone in Eva and Hideyoshi’s room away to the boiler room. With everyone gone and trhe lock undone, this was Kyrie’s chance to escape, fooling everyone into thinking she was never there at all.

The last piece of the puzzle is the suddenly appearing third letter in Kinzo’s study. Unless Kinzo’s desk has a very subtle dispenser of letters that activates whenever people are distracted by the painting, I believe it’s most likely that someone placed there. Natsuhi said that the suspects who could have put it there are Nanjo, Genji, Kumasawa, and Maria. Including them, Natsuhi could be lying to cover herself or Jessica. Those would be the six main suspects, but I personally already suspect Nanjo so that seems like an open and shut case for me.

After that, the three together could easily overpower Genji and Kumasawa while tricking Maria to face the other way in the parlor by disguising Kyrie as Beatrice. And then in order to diguise Dr. Nanjo’s involvement, it’s possible that they could have disguised one of the previous dead bodies as Dr. Nanjo’s corpse when Battler and co. arrived. From there, when Natsuhi was isolated, they could have killed her with their own gun, and we never see what happens with the kids so... yeah.

So that’s my theory. It has a bunch of holes in it, such as motive and some reliance on how the survivors act, but it’s honestly the best i’ve got. The reason I think Rudolf and Kyrie are the culprits is because, among the dead initially found, they seem the most likely to co-operate. I had another theory that since the Ushiromiya family were rich and fucking lunatics, they could have just had a basement full of replica corpses they could have used to fake their deaths, but that seems a bit out there. I’m fairly confident that the solution to the Eva and Hideyoshi locked room is accurate, but hey i could be wrong,

So... yeah.

#umineko #umineko spoilers #episode 1

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tracinginwardinvestigation · 3 years

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Note #28: Metaphysical detective fiction: escaping the confinement of the genre

(This note contains major spoilers for Danganronpa series and Umineko series)

One of the best things I have learned from studying this clue-puzzle genre’s history is the term “metaphysical detective fiction”. With it, I have finally pinpointed the subgenre I have been trying to learn about.

My interest in detective meta-fiction probably began with the ending of Danganronpa V3. The manner in which the last trial pointed out the consumerism and repetitive violence of the series was the first time I ever saw a detective fiction addressing its own rigid story structure. Since then, I started to pay more attention to any story element that might display self-awareness of the genre’s construction. My interest in these metaphysical elements reached its peak when I gave Umineko a try. To the best of my understanding, Umineko was not only a love letter to detective fiction, it was also a critique of the Golden Age formula by challenging its convention in each Episode.

Originally I only associated the term “metaphysical” with stories that break the fourth wall to tell its message, and while a story like that may be part of meta-fiction, in reality meta-fiction contains more than just that. Based on my current understanding, detective meta-fiction includes anything that plays with the genre’s convention by explicitly drawing attention to such manipulation. For example, in Danganronpa V3, The sixth trial reveals that the main cast are fictional personalities created to entertain the audience. Meanwhile, one of the biggest twists in Umineko showcases the difference between the artificial, entertaining murders created by the witch Beatrice versus the real gruesome truth of the fateful days on Rokkenjima island.

Nevertheless, I still have a lot more to learn about metaphysical detective novels with the history of the term as well as some contemporary examples being my main focus for the time being. Jorge Luis Borges’ detective stories such as “Death and the Compass”, Umberto Eco’s The Name of the Rose, and Nisio Isin’s Zaregoto series are my current reading priority.

#tct_detectivefic #tct_notes #tct_spoiler #tracingtheculpritstrack

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klug · 3 years

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Writing up a longer thing to post later/use as a guideline for a video I want to make, but the short summary of my thoughts on the mysteries and murders Umineko ep1. This has spoilers for all of Legend of the Golden Witch (obviously) (and also Higurashi because I reference it but like it’s kind of minor/jokey).

The missing torii: No idea, this doesn’t seem to be very important at the moment, but I do know that torii symbolize a transition from the physical world to the spirit world. The fact that it’s missing might mean that we have never left the physical world, and all the murders/mysteries on Rokkenjima can be explained without magic.

The epitaph: I need to look at the Japanese for this, but my gut instinct is that someone on the island already has the key. Honestly, one stupid theory I have is that Shannon’s engagement ring is the key. Also, it doesn’t seem necessary to carry out the twilights in the order they’re listed? Considering Eva/Hideyoshi, Kinzo, and Kanon’s death, they all occur in a different order from the epitaph. None of the twilights seem to correspond to a specific time in the game either.

My Neighbor Beatrice The Umbrella and Beatrice: I basically think Kanon is lying, lol. I think he was the one who gave the umbrella to Maria. Also he could easily pass as a young woman just, imo.

The First Twilight: I think Shannon/Kanon carried out these murders...? I’m kind of suspicious of Shannon going back to the mansion even though she knew that her shift was moved to the guesthouse. I think Kanon egging her on was also just suspicious in retrospect... If it’s not them though, I guess my money is on Rosa >_>. I think at least one person in the shed faked their death.

Kinzo’s disappearance: I agree with Battler’s theory lol I don’t have much to say on this one

The Second Twilight: I think Battler’s theory kind of foreshadowed this and there was someone in the room already that killed them... I lowkey stole this theory from Jokrono on YouTube since I like listening to his analysis of the story. The servants are all suspicious here unfortunately lol. Genji couldve easily picked up the black magic circles from Kinzo yknow :p

The Fourth/Fifth Twilight: I think since Kanon mightve been an accomplice or was forced to kill Shannon, he was trying to take revenge on who he was working with? Kinzo...uh...IDK. the chance that it’s a body double (Shoutout To Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni) or actually Kinzo both seem plausible, but they wouldve needed to put they in the incinerator at a specific time for it to smell like that + lure everyone to the boiler room

The Letter in the Study: I think Maria or one of the servants set it down. I don’t have much else to say on this one because I think it’s straightforward and continues aligning with my feeling that the servants are kind of suspicious...

Sixth, Seventh, Eighth Twilight: yeah that shit’s crazy. I don’t think the murderer was Maria, but the person who faked their death in the first twilight >_>

Natsuhi’s “Suicide”: I think her suicide can be kind of easily explained away with it just being grief at the murders, or being threatened by the person who’s orchestrating everything...

#ramblings #eudae plays umineko

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ushiromiya · 8 months

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(madoka magica / rebellion spoilers below. TW: suicide and controlling behavior)

I don't know the direction in which walpurgisnacht rising will take homura's character but I can say with confidence that from at least where rebellion left off that I truly believe that homura made the decision that she felt was the most correct one even if it meant she had to become a monster in the eyes of every person that loved her. she felt that if things were left in the way the law of the cycle was currently running things that it was inevitable that kyubey would eventually capture madoka in her goddess form, study her, and use her to as a source for mass amounts of energy at the suffering of herself, the others within the law of the cycle, and magical girls at large again. this is something he explains very clearly when talking to homura before her transformation into homulilly.

I get so exhausted when I see people try characterize homura as an actually evil person with completely selfish desires and no regard for others. all of her actions, while not explicitly explained outright, when looked at closely always indicate that she does things out of her care for the other girls but feels like she bears the burden of having to do it alone because she believes she's the only one who doesn't let her emotions get in the way of protecting madoka and the others from kyubey and sometimes each other.

I will always use the scenes of her interactions with mami and sayaka in rebellion as huge examples of this. she has no reason not to kill them if she's a completely selfish and unemphatic person that only cares about madoka and no one else when given many opportunities to do so. I also don't personally think she keeps them around JUST because of madoka's happiness either. she very easily could have suppressed their roles in madoka's life with the world rewrite and clearly choose not to. I believe her mocking sayaka and acting in a clearly "evil" manner is deliberate acting on her part to frame herself as a villain. she might believe this would her actions more palatable and will create distance between herself and everyone else to protect them as well as allow her to assert more control in this situation. it is further emphasized how she truly feels with imagery displayed in homura's new world around herself (shoes abandoned on the side of a building to potentially indicate suicidal ideation, a half moon alluding to homura feeling unfulfilled and unhappy with this decision, her dancing around happily before stopping and slowly falling off the cliff side with a similar implication as the shoes).

homura's relationship with the others is incredibly complicated but she cares for them deeply too as they are also people she considers friends, she just had a particularly strong attachment to madoka. we don't get to see as many instances of her interacting with them as we do them interacting with each other as we are unfortunately only really privy to homura's life after she began looping for the most part but we can see it in the way she has expresses concern and distress for them in moments where she believes they are in real, tangible danger of being hurt (she's winces and tries to turn away when aiming for mami's leg and screams out when she believes mami is about to be truly harmed after their gun fight, which neither ever had the real intention of hitting one another with any of those bullets in the first place). her entire witch's labyrinth is one where everyone is happy and gets the lives they desire. why would her labyrinth, which is meant to reflect in-part her inner feelings and desires, appear that way if she didn't truly want that for everyone?

rebellion is so compelling to me for all of this and so much more!! (I could write a whole other post on the way it presents it's freedom with danger vs control with safety question at the end of the film) she is a girl who has repeatedly suffered incredibly traumatizing events and longs for a world where the person she loves and the friends she considers dear are safe. homura is not really the devil, but she wants to appear to be because being the devil would be easier than being a human being in these circumstances.

#I “joke” that i'm a homura apologist but like for real I am LOL #homura's actions aren't holy and good #but I don't believe they are evil either and that's kind of the point #anyway can you tell i've watched this movie like 10+ times #madoka magica #homura akemi #madoka magica rebellion #walpurgisnacht rising #homu #letters from rokkenjima

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ecoamerica · 1 month

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neko-when-they-cry · 5 years

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Trick of the Golden Witch chapter 1

After the death of her aunt, Ange decided to go on a quest to find out the truth about the Rokkenjima Massacre. She ended up asking the help of a certain detective.

So here's an Umineko fic based on my theory regarding the Trick Ending. Spoiler for the end of Umineko. Enjoy!

Ushiromiya Ange remained still in front of the detective agency. Not that she was hesitating to enter or anything, she was simply lost in her thought. Her aunt Eva recently passed away, but she wasn't sad about it. She always hated her ever since she became her legal guardian, and it was mutual. Ange always felt like Eva was keeping the truth from her, about what truly happened in the Rokkenjima island. She was suspecting her of being the culprit behind the tragedy that took away her family, but she still needed concrete proof. Ange was desperate to know the truth, and quite frankly, ready to try anything. Now that Eva was dead, she was free, the chain keeping her from finding out the truth had been broken, and she was ready to investigate this mystery.

"What are we waiting for, oujo?"

Ange sighed. Hearing him just reminded her that she was stuck with him. Amakusa Juuzo, her bodyguard. Hired by Okonogi to protect her. Quite frankly, she would do perfectly fine without him, but he didn't seem like he had any intention to leave. Well, at least he wasn't preventing her from looking for the truth, so his presence was bearable. At least it gave her someone to talk to.

"Nothing, let's go," Ange said as she stepped inside the agency, followed by Amakusa.

The agency was rather small but well decorated. They walked in a small corridor until they reached a door, which Ange knocked at. After a few seconds of waiting, someone opened the door. It was a middle-aged woman with short dark blue hair barely reaching her jaw, lighter blue eyes and wearing a rather professional outfit. She smiled politely at Ange.

"Oh, you must be Ushiromiya Ange-san. Please come on in."

Ange nodded and stepped inside the office, followed by Amakusa. Inside was a desk, a couch with an armchair in front, with in between a coffee table. The blue-haired woman put two cups on the table and poured tea in it, before sitting on the armchair.

"Please take a seat, Ange-san."

"I suppose I'm not invited," Amakusa said.

"No. Go wait in the corner and stay quiet," Ange ordered him.

"Roger, oujo."

Her bodyguard did as she told him and she sat on the couch. The woman took a sip of her tea, smiling in a serene way. Ange looked at her tea, with no intention of actually touching it.

"You know, I always wanted to contact you, but your aunt never let me. Not that I'm happy she died, but at least I'm free to talk to you know."

"You can be happy. She was a bitch," Ange replied bluntly.

"Ouch, I see you two didn't have quite the aunt-niece loving relationship. Well then, I'll be frank. Her death was surely in my best interest."

Despite her cruel words, the woman was still smiling softly. Ange felt that despite her rather elegant appearance, this woman was much sinister than she looked like.

"Let me introduce myself again. I'm Furudo Erika, nice to meet you."

Ange remained quiet. After her aunt's death, she looked for the second survivor of the Rokkenjima Mass Murder Incident, Furudo Erika. Totally unrelated to the Ushiromiya family, according to what she read she would have ended up on the island after a boat accident. But Ange knew that there was more to this. So she contacted Erika and organized a meeting between the two of them. Since she was a detective, it seemed that she might be even more useful to her investigation.

"Why did you want to contact me?" Ange asked.

"Well, since you were one of the only Ushiromiya left, I wanted to talk with you, and hopefully learn more about your family. But your aunt never let me, she was quite protective of you."

"Bullshit. Eva oba-san never loved me, she didn't care about me."

"If you say so. Anyway, I simply investigated on my own to find the truth, but I never had any conclusive result. I kind of give up, but when you called me, it made me want to continue my investigation."

"What a coincidence, I also want to investigate the Rokkenjima Incident. I want to know the truth, and I was hoping you could help me."

"Oh my, so here's why you called me. I feel like we'll get along just fine. Both looking for the truth-"

"Tell me what happened on the island."

Erika remained quiet for a moment, before taking a sip of her tea and putting it back on the table.

"You're not sugarcoating it, I like that. Well, it's not like I hide what happened to me on the island. I fell from a pleasure boat near Rokkenjima and in some miracle, I survived and arrived on the island. The Ushiromiya family welcomed me as their guest, and I spent a lot of time with the younger members of the family, including your brother Battler-san."

"No need to tell me superficial details, come to the point. I want to know about the murder."

Erika chuckled.

"Very well then. It all started during dinner, Maria-san brought back a letter that she claimed was from a witch named Beatrice. It was a riddle, the Witch Epitaph, to find Kinzo-san's gold. Whoever would be the first one to solve the epitaph's riddle would inherit the gold and become the new head of the Ushiromiya family. The adults asked the kids to leave so they can talk about this mysterious letter alone, and even though I wanted to be part of it I was forced to stay with the cousins," Erika started to explain. "Then the cousins were called by Rudolf-san apparently on the behalf of Kinzo-san. Apparently he judged all his children to be unfit to be his successor and wanted to test his grandchildren instead to choose his heir. Jessica-san was asked to go to the parlour and George-san in front of the chapel. When those two left, I stayed with Battler-san and Maria-san in the cousin room."

Ange took the time to think about it. Her father called Jessica and George on the behalf of Kinzo? Somehow, that sounded fishy. Almost like a trap.

"Later, Battler got called at the chapel and I remained alone with Maria-san," Erika continued. "But my instinct told me something was odd. I knew there was something wrong. This epitaph was highly suspicious to me. So I decided to leave the cousin room and go investigate on my own. I went to the parlour and discovered… Jessica-san's corpse."

"Jessica's… corpse… how did she die?" Ange asked.

"Are you sure you want to know? It was pretty brutal-"

"Tell me. I'm here to know the truth after all."

"Very well. Her face had been smashed beyond recognition. I only knew it was her because of the clothes and the hair," Erika revealed.

Ange felt a little bit nauseous. Such an awful way to die. Whoever the culprit was, she would never forgive them.

"What happened next?" Ange asked.

"Well, I realized that there was a murderer on the island, so my detective senses got quite stirred. I decided to go see the chapel and on my way, I found Rudolf-san's corpse. He looked like he was shot twice, once in the chest and the second time in the head. I also found George-san's corpse in the forest near the chapel, similar injuries as Rudolf-san. I decided to go back to the cousin room and on my way found the corpse of most servants, and later Maria-san with her throat slit in her bed. I left once again, looking for any survivors, and found Kyrie-san's corpse in the garden, a bullet in her throat. The only people I haven't seen their corpse were Battler-san, Shanon-san, Kanon-san and obviously, Eva-san."

Ange felt sick. To learn how her family died, especially her parents, was truly awful. But she repressed those feelings, she had to remain strong, for the sake of the truth.

"Then, how did you escape? According to what I read, you found a boat and left the island before it exploded. How did you find that boat? I don't recall reading about that," Ange insisted.

Erika became quiet for a moment as if she was hesitating to continue.

"Well, that's when things become really weird. I didn't tell anyone about this because I didn't want people to think I was crazy. But since you are an Ushiromiya, I suppose you have a right to know," Erika started to say.

Ange became tense. Whatever Erika was about to tell her, it must be shocking. But she was ready to face anything, she wasn't scared of the truth. Whatever it was, she would accept it.

"I saw… the Golden Witch, Beatrice," Erika revealed.

Ange became speechless when she heard that. Beatrice… the woman on the portrait? She remembered talking about her with Maria as a child, when they played witches together. Beatrice was the witch Maria admired and respected. But she wasn't real, right? Just a child's delusion, so how… ?

"You saw… Beatrice… ?" Ange wanted to confirm.

"Yes, I did. She's actually the one who saved me."

"But… how? What happened!?" Ange demanded, more and more flustered.

"She brought me to an underground tunnel and we reached a boat. She told me that since I wasn't linked to this family, I didn't deserve to die. Obviously I asked her for an explanation, and then, her expression changed. She grinned in such a malevolent way and laughed madly, saying that she was the one who killed everyone because the Ushiromiya owed her. She took back everything that belonged to Kinzo, and that I simply wasn't part of that."

Ange remained quiet, clenching her fists in anger.

"Are you telling me… that my family has been killed by a witch?! That magic is real!? Impossible! I won't believe such foolishery, this is insane, it can't be the truth!" Ange shouted.

Most to Ange's surprise, Erika's smile turned into a sinister grin as she suddenly burst into an almost demonic, before she gazed at Ange with such arrogance.

"Of course not! Do you think I'm dumb enough to believe in magic? Obviously she wasn't a real witch, only a human wearing a fancy costume and a wig! But this human pretending to be the witch Beatrice may be the culprit we are looking for, the one behind the Rokkenjima Incident," Erika said.

Still shocked by Erika's sudden outburst, Ange remained quiet for a moment, before feeling relieved. She was worried that Erika actually believed in magic for an instant.

"Who is this culprit? Who was this person pretending to be Beatrice?" Ange asked.

"I don't know. Either one of the 17 people on the island, or some mysterious 18th person. My bet would be either a servant or an Ushiromiya."

"It must be Eva oba-san! She disguised herself as Beatrice and killed everyone!"

"Hm, I wonder. I'm still not sure if this Beatrice is really the culprit. After all, she saved my life. I can't forget this panicked expression she had on her face when I first met her, and that bloody shoulder… no, she wasn't the culprit. She had been attacked. Well, according to the Epitaph she may have wanted to murder everyone, but someone might have beat her to that. Or the adults solve the riddle before the deadline and one of them decided to kill everyone for the gold. Simply by the existence of Beatrice's wound, this level of reasoning is possible for Furudo Erika! What do you think, everyone?"

Ange remained skeptical. So this Beatrice, whoever she truly is, wouldn't be the culprit but would have intended to kill everyone for an unknown reason. But Ange didn't care with she wanted to, she was only interested in the real culprit, the one that stole her family away from her.

"So Beatrice is pointless. No need to find who she is, we should focus on the actual culprit," Ange said.

"Well, the fact Rudolf-san called us for some kind of test and before going there were killed is highly suspicious," Erika said.

"No, my father can't be the culprit! After all, he was killed too. You said he called on my grandfather's behalf? Then maybe it's him, who tricked my father and orchestrated the murder of his family," Ange theorized.

"That's an interesting theory, I did think of it too."

"Is there anything else I don't know about the incident?"

"No, I told you everything I know."

"How much will it cost?"

"Eh?"

"You're a detective after all, you can't have told me all of that information freely. How much will it cost me?"

"Ah! Don't worry about that, for you it will be free. After all, I did want to discuss with you."

"Fine. Well then, if you have nothing more to tell me, I'll leave. Thank you for your time."

Ange rose up, ready to go, but before she could leave, Erika suddenly grabbed her arm.

"Wait! I'm not done with you," Erika said.

"But I am."

"Let me finish! What if we work together to uncover the Rokkenjima mystery and discover the truth?"

Ange thought about it. Somehow, she wanted to do this alone. It was her family, it felt personal. But, Erika was a survivor of the Rokkenjima Incident, she was there when her family was murdered, and in addition, she was a detective. Her help could be precious.

"Fine, let's team up," Ange agreed.

"Wonderful! How about you work with me at my agency? Helping me solve my cases, it would sharpen your skills. And we could work together to solve the Rokkenjima Incident."

Ange hesitated. Working for Erika didn't seem that much pleasant, but it was true that it could help her develop better deduction skills, which could be useful to find the culprit who killed her family.

"Okay, I'll work with you. But it better not be a waste of time," Ange replied.

"Don't worry, it won't. Glad that we'll now work together, my dear new assistant."

Ange sighed. This alliance was the start of her quest. The quest of the truth regarding the Rokkenjima Incident and the murder of her family. And she was determined to succeed, no matter what.

***

Suddenly, a truly devilish smile appeared on Erika's face. Under Ange's expression of disbelief, Erika started to shrink, her hair grew long and was now tied up in twintails, and her clothes changed for a fancy white and pink dress. Her smile softened as she grabbed her dress to lift it a little and bowed elegantly.

"Allow me to introduce myself properly. I'm Furudo Erika, the detective, as well as a Witch of Truth."

Ange remained shocked by what she witnessed. A middle-aged woman just turned into a teenager in front of her eyes! And now she was calling herself… a witch? She looked around and discovered that Amakusa had disappeared.

"It can't be true… magic can't be real, you can't be a witch, you said it yourself that they don't exist!" Ange exclaimed.

"Magic and witches do in fact not exist, in your world. But this isn't your world anymore. Welcome to the Meta-World, Ange-san."

"I… I don't understand…"

"It's fine if you don't. Anyway, whether I truly am a witch or not doesn't matter. It's Beatrice's status as a witch we need to disprove."

Ange reminded quiet for a moment, still shocked by what she saw, but eventually come back to her sense and regained her composure.

"No. We need to discover who the culprit is. If Beatrice isn't the culprit, then there's no point in finding out her true identity," Ange said.

"But you can't know for sure that she isn't the culprit. Wouldn't it be better to discover who she is in case she is the culprit?"

"But didn't you say yourself that you didn't think she was the culprit?"

"The Erika of this world did, but I'm not her. I'm the Erika from another world. But I do know everything about this world, but it doesn't mean I agree with everything my human self said."

"Right… well then, are you going to help me find the truth?"

"That's what I'm here for! I'll be your witch guardian, and I'll help you find out the truth and destroy that illusion of the Golden Witch. Surely you know about those message bottles? Even if the books weren't written in this world, those messages still exist here, as well as all the forgeries made."

"You mean those messages signed by Maria onee-chan? Yeah, I know about them. Different scenarios about what happened on the island. A lot of people become fans of those theories and started writing their own, I suppose that it was your mean by forgeries."

"Creating a perfect catbox for the Rokkenjima Incident. But together, we'll open that catbox and reveal the truth. Let's put an end to those theories and destroy that illusion once and for all! Join me on that quest and be my assistant, Ange-san, fellow Witch of Truth."

Erika held out her hand, smiling. Ange hesitated. This just sounded all so crazy. But she did want to know the truth, and she hated all those forgeries. Her family's death shouldn't be a show or something to theorize about, she wanted them to finally rest in peace, and the only way for that was to reveal the truth.

Ange made her choice. With a serious gaze, she grabbed Erika's hand, who immediately grinned in a way only a witch could.

"Good. Very Good."

A world where Erika survived and become a private detective. My interpretation of the Trick Ending.

This story might stay as a one-shot, but I do have a full plot in mind. So if you're interested let me now, leave a note or a comment and follow the fic here: https://archiveofourown.org/works/20956274. Thanks for reading and maybe seeya next time, bye!

Oh, before I leave. I made a When They Cry discord server, to talk about Higurashi, Umineko, Ciconia and other 07th Expansion series. You can join here: https://discord.gg/NhwaPX7

#umineko when they cry #umineko no naku koro ni #umineko spoilers #when the seagulls cry #erika furudo #furudo erika #ange ushiromiya #ushiromiya ange #trick ending #fanfiction

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jacereviews · 5 years

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Review: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

Visual Novel (Sound Novel) (PC) Also know as: Umineko: When They Cry - Question Arcs, When They Cry 3 Consumed in English

Welcome to Rokkenjima. The third entry in the acclaimed When They Cry series, Umineko, brings a fresh new start to the series. New story, new characters, and so on. It both rode on the coattails of, and had to fight it’s way out of the shadow of its predecessor, Higurashi. This presented a massive challenge, but did Umineko succeed? Let’s rock.

PLOT: October 4, 1986. The annual family conference of the Ushiromiya family has come once again. Being an immensely prosperous business family, talks quickly become of money, including the inheritance of the aging family head. The head of the family’s 4 children and their families gather at the family head’s mansion on Rokkenjima island and debates begin. Our protagonist, Battler, and the other grandchildren are spared from these debates and find themselves in front of a portrait in the mansion. This portrait is of the legendary witch Beatrice, who the family head Kinzo claims gave him a fortune of gold which he built his success on. Attached to this portrait is a mysterious epitaph which none of the family have managed to solve. When a typhoon blows in, trapping the family, their servants, and one attending physician on the island, strange events begin to occur. A letter is delivered to the dinner table signed by the “family alchemist” Beatrice. Beatrice’s letter claims that she had a contract with Kinzo, and this contract states that all possessions of the Ushiromiya family go to her unless someone can solve her epitaph. When a series of mysterious deaths begin to happen on the island, the family is forced to take the letter seriously. At this intersection between reality and magic, can the culprit be found, or will it be accepted as the powers of a witch? Umineko is a hard as nails mystery with a lot of detail to it. For those familiar with Higurashi, Umineko does adopt the same format over it’s four episodes. The unique trait of Umineko is its witches, rather than simply solving a murder to catch the murderer, it’s also a battle to prove it isn’t the magic of a witch- which sounds a simpler task than it is. Due to the incredibly plot heavy nature of the VN, I can’t go into much more detail for spoiler reasons. There is a lot going on here, a drastic amount has changed between episodes 1 and 4. Umineko is also incredibly long, and not necessarily for all the right reasons. The pacing isn’t usually very tight, and you occasionally run into bumpy dragged out pieces or retreaded ground, but the high points are definitely worth the lows. Umineko also isn’t content to be just a mystery, in its over 50 hour playtime it delves into comedy, action, romance, tragedy, and so on. Despite some unique diversions however, at the end of the day it goes back to the mystery and battle against the witch. While not conclusive, Umineko has a strong ending that sets up for its sequel, Umineko Chiru.

8/10, a grand mystery unfolds with some bumps here and there.

CHARACTERS: Umineko has a lot of characters. We open the story with 18 characters before adding in any supposed witches.The good news is all of them are very distinct in both appearance and personality. The VN uses its long run time to spend a good amount of time on most of the characters. The human cast ranges from being able to be uniquely described to in depth enough for a full character study. Battler himself is a rather distinct and likeable character, his character also well develops over the course of the VN. The other grandchildren (Battler’s cousins) Jessica, George, and Maria get a good amount of spotlight as we see into their lives. Maria in particular has a lot going on. The servants of similar age to the grandchildren, Shannon and Kanon, were characters I initially disliked but grew to rather like by the end. They both come off as initially simple but have a significant amount more going on. The head of the family Kinzo comes off as more mystery than character, we see little of him but feel the waves of his actions. Kinzo’s children all get a good amount of spotlight. Battler’s parents don’t get much screen time, but the time they get is enough for them to make some powerful impressions. Jessica’s parents I found to be the weakest of the family character-wise, but are still likeable in their own right. George’s parents are both immediately enjoyable and I found them to get more interesting over time. Lastly Maria’s mother Rosa has a lot going on and is quite interesting to dig into over the series. As other characters go, the rest of the servants and doctor Nanjo, they aren’t particularly strong characters but have a significant enough presence and a good amount of likeability. I feel as the series goes on we’ll get to dig more and more into these characters and I have high expectations and a belief they’ll be met. As for “the witch, Beatrice”, we’re left with quite the interesting puzzle.

9/10, there’s a lot of characters, a lot of character, and a lot of intrigue. TFW no Battler bf.

VISUALS: When They Cry visuals will always be an interesting discussion, as there are multiple versions.

The steam version of Umineko comes with the original art (pictured above left) and the Pachinko art (picture below). The Alchemist art can be modded in, however as it isn’t natural to this version I won’t be discussing it.

The backgrounds are the same in both new and old arts, all that changes is the sprites. I ended up going with the original art, though I did look at the Pachinko quite a bit. The original art is very rough, as is the nature with many a doujin games, but has a lot of charm in my opinion. It manages to give every character a unique feel whilst feeling consistent to itself. The original art is also very expressive, with each pose and look containing a lot of emotion. The Pachinko art can clash with itself stylistically, is less expressive, feels like it tries to be way more sexual than is Umineko’s nature (obnoxious boob inflation), and is ultimately incomplete, as some minor characters in minor scenes don’t have pachinko sprites so even in new art mod you will get original art. Umineko art is at best rough, but I quickly found myself growing to like it. As other visual pieces go, I found the stylized photo backgrounds quite enjoyable. They can very easily convey an air of mystery or horror (hence why I liked them so much in Higurashi), however that can be a personal preference thing. As other visuals go (the portrait of the witch, some designs of magic circles, and some unique set pieces) I found them to be quite enjoyable. The transition pieces were also quite nice. However nothing about the visuals felt like a home run or epitome of good visuals. A lot of the designs had some fantastic ideas in them, but ultimately artist ability, time, and budget were limiting factors. A thing I will say about the visual presentation however, is it uses the format of the VN with text colors as inherently meaningful, a minor detail but a positive one.

7/10, When They Cry will always be divisive visually, but I like it.

SOUND: Umineko might have one of my favorite OSTs, it is loaded with killer original compositions. The opening song is one of my all time favorite opening songs, I could almost listen to it on repeat. The soundtrack is loaded with a variety of styles, from very traditional background pieces to mysterious tracks of magic to energetic battle tracks. A lot of my personal favorites are the more electronic-y tracks loaded with energy, pumping you up to solve the truth and deny the witch. However fans of more traditional mood pieces will also be quite satisfied. It’s also good about working different audio queues into different songs to represent songs, there’s a few types of sound that get inherently associated with magic. It also does a thing I like of making multiple renditions of a song, each version being distinct for its own reason. It feels like it’s building on itself, and each version carries the emotional value of the prior song but adding more to it. In other pieces, there’s no voice acting without the Alchemist sprite mod, so I won’t be discussing that. Sound effect wise, I adore Umineko. A lot of the sound effects just feel so right. Ahahaha.wav is one of my all time favorite sound effects, and the bleeding “gloop” rubs me the right way.

9/10, I can fault this only with “not being absolute perfection.” That award goes to Persona 3.

FINAL SCORE: 8/10

In all honesty I was surprised that Umineko meted out at an 8. If I were to include a super-subjective enjoyment category that’d get a 10. Umineko is not perfect, but it’s damn interesting. A small part of my brain keeps telling me to just google the answers because I’m so curious as to how it’ll all come together. I absolutely adore most things about Umineko. I implore more people to give When They Cry a chance, it’s such a fascinating series and is such a good mystery.

#umineko no naku koro ni #umineko #umineko when they cry #when they cry #battler #ushiromiya #witch #beatrice #review #mystery #uu- uu-#battler poopoo eat #seacats #vn #visual novel #sound novel #07th expansion #ryukishi07

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pochapal · 2 years

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Welcome back to rokkenjima once again (or at least the waters surrounding it) and I'm super glad PhD things are going well for you! Umineko question of the day: how would these people fare if there were no murders but they were just stranded on the island until they either got out themselves or died? Can any of them build a boat, do you think? If you wanna make it slightly easier for them let's say they'll be rescued in a year or so

Supplement: no mysterious mass murders, feel free to imagine them snapping and killing each other lol

thank you!!! i may be back to rokkenjima physically but mentally i have never left that island lmao

as for your No Murder Scenario i'll assume things are kind of a similar setup (family conference, battler's return, the typhoon) but without whatever catalyst pushes the killing. for the sake of argument i'm gonna say the demon's roulette doesn't spin here - ie no letter, no ring, no "beatrice".

(the scenario got long so it's under the cut. spoiler: i do not see things going well for these people at all)

on a basic survival level i think everything would be easy for them so long as they had access to food/power. once things run out i can see things getting desperate but until that point i imagine the main problems will all stem from the family's interpersonal issues - i don't think a single sibling will agree to try to escape because having access to the whole of the rokkenjima mansion gives them the best chance of gunning for the gold.

i can very easily see eva getting it into her head to really enquire about the gold, goading krauss and natsuhi about the embezzlement scam, maybe to kinzo's face maybe not (depending on if kinzo decides to interact with anyone and depending on if such a scenario would benefit eva). so there'd be like this sudden massive influx of tension of krauss trying to play damage control while eva has all these days and weeks to do nothing but snoop around the mansion and prove her own point.

concurrent problem number two i can see happening is the george/shannon situation. assuming george still proposes night one of the conference except now shannon lives and also they're stranded. their secret romance is definitely getting exposed, probably via george telling the cousins to impress them and then maria going on to parrot it to her mother who will almost certainly be spiteful enough to weaponise said information against eva as the social order collapses.

kanon i think is a wildcard here in that i'm not sure how he would move in a no murder scenario. i think every part of him would want to refuse to play the servant role but short of a major social rupture i don't know that there's a way for him to safely do that without him being cut off from the rest of the group. there's the chance he could angle for a servant's mutiny but idk what he would do here initially.

the cousins will mostly be a passive witness to whatever goes down bar one major exception. i think eventually battler and jessica will call out rosa's abuse of maria and take a definitive stance emboldened by the fact they have nothing to lose. as to whether they actually call out rosa and that whole fight happens or if they just complain about it to george who tells them to stop and so they fall out with george i can't say. both seem possible depending on the desperation of the situation.

one massive thing i do think will happen is that assuming they're here for weeks on end is that somebody's going to eventually solve the epitaph. gut feeling says it'd probably be kyrie, first done as a mental exercise to keep herself occupied and then done seriously once she realises the means of solving the thing are all in the mansion. if she were to like, idk, uncover kinzo's secret gold vault i'm not sure what would happen there but it would not be good. i think the siblings would turn on rudolf and kyrie, but that depends on if kinzo would accept their completion of the epitaph as legit. maybe someone kills kinzo at some point in order to prevent rudolf and kyrie from walking away with the gold whenever it's all over? i could see that one. after all, who would bat an eye at an old man with one foot in the grave dying after being stranded on an island with dwindling resources?

going with all of the above scenarios i can actually see one person in particular snapping most of all: sayo. i think with her having to side with george during whatever schism happens between the cousins and with kanon in deep survival mode unable to be there for her under the nightmarish gaze of unending ushiromiya servitude i think that at some point the shannon mask will crack. she'll be emotionally isolated from every person except for george who she only loves because he offers her a way off rokkenjima except oh wait there is no getting off of rokkenjima now and she's going to be stuck here forever on this hell island. i think at that point she'll give up on trying to contain the resentment and rage that's built up in her over the years. i mean, this is someone who was desperate and half on the edge before all this. a sayo no longer keeping her emotions in check with nothing to lose? somebody isn't living and it's either her murdering someone else or her killing herself. not sure which is more likely. i guess it depends on how much sayo at the core of herself really despises the ushiromiya family - if so i can see potentially her doing something like a murder suicide with herself and george.

so then there's this whole thing. the siblings are tearing each other apart over the gold. kinzo's been killed out of desperate greed. shannon and george are gone. in the wake of losing shannon kanon will almost certainly go rogue and probably idk kill genji or something like that out of total resentment for genji being complicit in the abuse and out of resentment for the fact kanon's "beatrice" plan never came to fruition. kumasawa probably also gets killed too, because like, she still kind of passively sat by and let shannon endure all she endured without doing anything (or at least that's how a kanon pushed past the brink would see it). it's all pointless might as well take the bastards down with you. said taking down of bastards probably won't get further than attacking natsuhi as revenge for the way she treated shannon all those years and then kanon being killed in retaliation for that.

at the same time i'd also imagine the rift between the siblings would escalate into all-out murder. probably some kind of kill-off between eva/rosa/krauss after an ill-thought-out alliance to bring down rudolf and kyrie for the gold backfires. assuming the shannon/george murder suicide happens i cannot see eva having any reservations about killing - the gold is all she has left to strive for in life. hideyoshi would go down with his wife. krauss is getting killed out of paraonia because he is the de facto successor now that kinzo's gone and nobody really trusts him. rudolf and kyrie either live or die i'm not sure.

if there's any hope of escape it'd probably be battler, jessica, and maria getting out of there with nanjo and gohda. nanjo survives because he stays under the radar enough not to matter once kinzo's dead. gohda i think will be the only servant to genuinely rebel and check out in a non lethal way - his loyalty is to his wage and not to the ushiromiya household if it really came to it. the kids survive because in their own twisted way the adults try to shield them from the horrors and i think after a certain point battler and jessica will truly decide to take maria and save themselves. most likely one them will find a way of making the distress call that gets them saved (fixing up a radio seems like something as a general household servant gohda could manage to do) while what's left of the ushiromiya family implodes back in the mansion.

so uh. i guess in the end the same number of people will die as the epitaph demands even without the epitaph's ritual murders taking place. the golden witch beatrice would be infinitely amused by such a turn of events i think.

#yumantimatter #writing it like this makes me wonder if the majority of the ushiromiya family dying is like inevitable or something #because i can't puzzle out a plausible enough au version of events that doesn't end in bloodshed #like a large number of people would have to be wildly ooc and a whole bunch of established facts would need to be totally different

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