#pol!jon

[esther-dot]

I’m sure you’ve been asked this a million times, but is there a specific meta (or metas) that you feel sufficiently explain the pol!jon theory?

Kit's face.

Obviously, that's kinda a joke, and I'm gonna link more stuff for you, but to me, that is one of the most compelling arguments for it. Not merely because he failed to communicate love in his scenes with Dany (although that's true), but because, there are a hundred other emotions he was conveying in their scenes that we have to ignore or deny if we're to accept that he was enraptured with Dany, trusted her, or thought she would be a good queen. If you look at that gifset, in many pivotal scenes, he's torn, worried, disappointed, afraid. All sorts of emotions that simply don't fit in with the "fool in love" storyline.

Another of my favorite posts on the subject is this gifset in which D&D create parallels between Dany and LF, JonDany/LF&Sansa, some, or all of this, clearly intentional. Or this parallel from s7 that uses repetition of a line to indicate, Jon and Dany are not friends, they are in fact, opposing forces. Or this scene in s8 showing us that Grey Worm doesn't trust Jon, which again, is saying, Jon isn't as loyal as he's supposed to be. I mean, I knew that, but again, it doesn't fit with the story. Those speak to D&D’s plans, things completely beyond the actor’s control.

I'm linking a number of gifsets right off the bat because what they chose to put on our screens is more compelling than the words I use to try to argue my opinion. For example, this gifset of Sansa being the power in the North, look at who Jon (nonverbally) recognizes as the person he should show deference to. It's a weird detail that we know they orchestrated to show a specific thing, but again, it doesn't fit with Jon being a Dany convert or believer in her status as their true queen.

ANYWAY, far as I can tell, everyone had a different version of the theory, some of which, I didn’t like much, some of which, I still think are the best explanation of what I watched, but this gifset is basically the summary of it. Jon heard Sansa, he purposed to be smarter, and was unwavering in his loyalty to the North. Simple as that. This, I think, is the meta that best explains the political Jon storyline in s7. There were many wonderful metas on this, sadly, many of my favs are no longer accessible because bloggers deactivated (my pol!jon tag has some posts in it still), but basically, I think it was an interpretation that showed more respect for Jon and Dany.

Dany sliding into paranoia and isolation is something they tried to speed run in s8, and it was presented as a kind of "madness," but if Dany was right, that Jon wasn't loyal to her, that she didn't have love, it's a more sympathetic story for her, as well as a darker but more coherent story for Jon. It reminds me of Aerys and how he was "paranoid" in the end, but we do have lines that sound as if, yeah, people were wanting to dethrone him (potentially even his son), which in no way justifies the horror he wanted to unleash, but does create a more nuanced scenario, something Martin is very fond of.

Dany realizing the person she trusted can't be trusted could have been (I thought was) a critical moment in her choosing fear as her path to power in 8x05, and I didn't think it served her well to pretend that was all in her head when it clearly wasn't. I wrote this post finale to explain my thoughts on show Jon, what happened to him, the parallels I saw, the meaning behind it.

#dot chat #got thoughts #pol!jon

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: always look to the parallels. They're there for a reason.

They always show what the actual big picture was/is. Because they're laced into the framework of the story.

#it's always the parallels #jonsa #jon x sansa #buddie #buck x eddie #evan x eddie #destiel #deancas #dean x cas #dean winchester as a main character #dark!dany #pol!jon #the parallels are INSANE #got #game of thrones #911 fox #spn #spnposts #911posts #gotposts #jonsaposts #destielposts #buddieposts #deanposts #dark!danyposts #pol!jonposts #parallelsposts

[sherlokiness]

Remembering about Joso's Cock is killing me with this recent talk of Jon using trickery and deceit.😭😭😭Joso's Cock was formerly Joso's Prank (a part of a ship named after the three heads of the dragon)and the word prank only ever appears thrice together with Joso in the series. And what involves a prank?? A TRICK!!! Joso and a trick with a cock to open the gates of Meereen. Heh.

What's up with gates and cocks you ask?

You know why they call her Gatehouse Ami? She raises her portcullis for every knight who happens by.

He [Tyrion] hopped down from the dais and grabbed Sansa roughly. “Come, wife, time to smash your portcullis. I want to play come-into-the-castle.”

The sexual metaphor is obvious. Sansa didn't let Tyrion "enter" her castle.

“That will give it strength enough to stand, I’d think,” Petyr said. “May I come into your castle, my lady?”

Sansa was wary. “Don’t break it. Be…”

“…gentle?” He smiled. “Winterfell has withstood flercer enemies than me.

Later passage has a "giant" doll entering the gates of Winterfell only for its head to be put on a spike in one of the gates. This makes me nervous for Sansa since this could be a rape attempt or just a seduction from Littlefinger of offering her what she supposedly wants. If Winterfell is likened to Sansa's viriginity then it is true in the books. She has been sexually assaulted multiple times and been betrothed (even married) yet she still has her maidenhead.

So if Winterfell's gates are Sansa's then Meereen's gates must be Dany's.

#pol jon truthers where you at #is there already a poljon meta with jonso and Sansa's wf gates??? #here's another clue for Aegony ship hooking up #Idk if they'd like it though since it involves a prank #ice and fire boy and nothing so sweet

[wulfhalls]

I think the outrage over daemon x rhaenyra coming from people right now is so funny because are people forgetting what show this is??? What the targaryens famously do???

that's one half and the other half is sooo pissed sooo mad soo irate because jonerys are just discount boring flop loser daemyra like

already outdone two seasons of jonerys right there

#asks #hotd #pol!jon truthers we were the only real ones out there truly

[songofthewinterrose]

it's not at all surprising to me that yawnsas are latching onto hotd and show!rhaenyra. they are nothing if not predictable

#targ madness something something pol!jon

[fictiveheavy-systim]

hey, who would you say is your favorite eddsworld character

🦩this was a rollercoaster to go through. Channel 54 if you were unaware, we're fictives n stuff, all of the content here is... For fictives. It's fine if you don't know what that is but this ask had practically everyone in the system fighting to the death over it

So anyway here we go, a (very incomplete, just whoever wanted to partake) tally of our favorites in the fandom sense + a few notes from us. For any other Eddsworld fictives that follow us, I'm going to put this all under a nice little readmore (as it may make some uncomfortable). Also, doing this gave us a huge headache due to people poking their heads in and the front getting crowded

ALSO ALSO yes we're aware the event is technically over but this took us too long to do ahshbdhd

🔧Larry, 🕷️Pest, 🛹Kyle, 🦩Matt, 💌Babe, 🩸Dahling, 💤Blue Matt, 🦦Jon, 💉RDR, 🐎Pol, 👑✨Matt, 🥏Yanov, 🖍️Skribz (aka 13/60+ Eddsworld fictives)

Final counts:

Legacy Edd: 1 (💉RDR)

Legacy Matt: 1 (💌Matt)

Pre-Legacy Matt: 1 (🛹Kyle)

Legacy Tom: 1 (💤Blue Matt)

Jon: 2 (🕷️Pest, 🦩🔪Matt)

Eduardo: 1 (🦦Jon)

Yuu: 1 (🥏Yanov)

Red Leader: 1 (🐎Pol)

Bing: 1 (🔧Larry)

Tomatoredd: 1 (🖍️Scribs)

Prince Matt: 1 (👑✨Matt)

Sheriff Thompson: 1 (🩸Red Dahling)

So uh, Jon ig. Because nobody else agreed.

Also pointing out that, unsurprisingly, Legacy Matt was picked by 💌Babe (a legacy Matt fictive) and Prince Matt was picked out by 👑✨Princely, a prince Matt fictive. Actually most of these are super obvious uhhm. We're not biased at all I prommy <3

Anyway thanks for the ask Channel 54, it took us a century to do sorry.

Also, 🦩🔪My boyfriend Tom(digrade, singlet) also says his favorite is me (Pre-legacy Matt). Do whatever you want with that

#also just a btw this excludes #🦨tom. #who also is front but really hates Eddsworld hope this helps #🦩🔪matt #not a stim #chatter #💉 rdr #🛹tom #🕷️tord #🦦jon #🥏yanov #💌babe #👑✨prince #💤blue #🐎pol #🩸red dahling #🖍️skribz #🔧larry #btw channel 54 if you dont know what a fictive is i uhm. im so sorry but i can explain if you want shdhdhhe

[falllpoutboy]

people act as if pol!jon was out of ordinary when its like… thats what his whole arc from the beginning has been since the first book/season

#ugh ive been scrolling tumblr too long #analyzing a series that will probably never conclude is kinda disheartening #every time i think about d&d sowing the seeds of pol!jon only to turn him into robb 2.0 i want to jump all over again

[agentrouka-blog]

Dany fan here: I think other Dany fans think Jonsas are over the top with Dany hate because of pol!Jon. I follow many Jonsas because I’m perfectly fine with Jonsa. It’s not for me but I see the vision. That said I’m a bit of an unusual Dany fan in the sense that I’m a big fan of the Meereenese Knot essays and think the interpretation of Dany presented there is pretty spot on. I personally think Dany has a good heart but that circumstance and experience and terrible coping mechanisms have led her to act in villainous ways and whether or not a character is a villain is determined by their actions regardless of whatever goodness is in their heart. But anyway I do not like the pol!Jon theory. I think it’s out of character for Jon and needlessly cruel to Dany. I think it’s possible that he ultimately kills her and that could be fine and I don’t reject that theory, but I think the idea of Jon deceiving and sexually abusing Dany and then killing her for the sake of Sansa is what Dany fans think of when they think of over the top hate because they assume every Jonsa shipper also believes in pol!Jon.

I do understand why people thought Jon was deceiving Dany in the show though because their relationship was just so poorly executed and Kit and Emilia had no chemistry on screen. Imagine fucking up your show’s romance so badly that people think the script confirming that the love was mutual must have been tampered with.

Hi there!

(I think Dany is a compelling tragic villain, and it's lovely seeing someone loving her for it!)

I do think that pol!Jon (under duress, esentially) is a not unreasonable theory that grew out of the way the show presented their relationship. If there was sexual abuse I think it's fair to say it was in the hands of the more powerful party, though.

That said, I don't see it happening that way in the books at all and I think all characters will be better off for it. I agree it wouldn't feel right.

Certainly not in a punitive "you thought he would love you but he really loves Sansa, now die!!!" way. That cheapens jonsa as much as it cheapens the complexity of the conflict between Dany and Jon.

It's just a deeply uninteresting way to explore their existing conflict or their respective strengths. Not to be a hater but it's not exactly riveting literature watching Dany be manipulated by Daario and it's unlikely to be more so in a repeat performance with Jon who isn't even her type. Same as watching Jon go through a repeat of the abusive Ygritte plotline would be less than compelling.

We'll have instances of romantic manipulation. Littlefinger is practically begging Sansa to use his own obsession against him, and Arya gives us a preview when she lures Raff to his death wearing "Mercy's" face. That's been set up since the first book, and it works as a satisfying response to the way everyone has been telling Sansa how weak and simple she is. It's very personal, very steeped in their respective histories, very poetic.

But for Jon and Dany I think we can expect something more universal and even-handed than that. They are both at varying points manipulative and earnest, highly clever or unexpectly outmaneuvered. And neither will be in this conflict all alone and without advice. Not to mention, we have both of their POVs and watching one just miss all the clues of the other manipulating them would be flat. This only ever works with one POV withheld. The show tried that with Jon Snow live on the screen, to disastrous results. No way is that GRRM's plan.

I'd rather watch two clever adversaries play a big game of chess. And given GRRM's love for that game, I am certain it's also what he would prefer to write.

#anti jonerys #jon snow #anti daenerys targaryen #<- for filtering #jonsa #rouka ask

[naetaesarya]

The "human heart in conflict with itself"

More often than not, when I see or experience an exchange with somebody arguing that Jon and Dany are "more interesting" as enemies/"rivals", that person ends up being a Jonsa.

For instance, this is a classic view:

It's funny how many who would identify themselves as a Jonsa fan would say the same of Jonerys: "more interesting" as enemies, as "rivals", as antagonists. No "stale bread conflictless romance" for Jonsas!... Unless it's Jonsa, that is. These are the same people saying Jon will come back hyper fixated on protecting Sansa, reset his personal preferences and characteristics, will play "Beast" to Sansa's "Beauty", the "Prince Eric" to Sansa's "Ariel", and will literally manifest Sansa's happily ever after (or Sansa must sadly and gracefully let go of it and her love Jon as a selfless sacrifice for the independence of the North...) Jonsa fantasies aside, what exactly makes an antagonistic relationship between two strangers "interesting"? What dynamic exists here? It's just, at its most passionate, hate. There's no contrasting emotion, no push and pull, no exchange with another set of feelings. It's just one thing -- bad. Even if Jon found out he and Ramsay were blood related, I don't think Jon is going to have much of an inner conflict over killing the guy. This is the only "humanity" Jonsas allow Jon where Dany is concerned (a bit of shame of kinslaying), which I think is telling. More telling still is how Jonsas want Jon to deal with this and Dany: to sexually exploit, use, abuse, deceive Dany before deciding to coldly kill & dispose of her. And this is one of their leading theories. Most, if not all, of their theories depend on Dany going dark/"mad" -- they seem to involve more of Dany than Sansa. Sansa's chapters have both positive and negative contexts when 'sweet' is used but who's going around claiming how this means Sansa will be betrayed by a lover and killed by his hand? Yet, for Dany, this means Jon will betray her with a knife to the back during their intimacy so he can marry Sansa.

The word 'shadow' has been used 657 times in ASOIAF throughout all POVs and chapters -- it has been used descriptively, to convey mystery, uncertainty, it can be physical blocked light or a metaphor. In Jon's case, it's often used in terms of his mysterious/uncertain/unknown identity. But who cares? When it comes to Dany, it now means betrayal and ulterior motive and Pol!Jon. Jon will betray her with a knife to the back during their intimacy so he can marry Sansa. Sansa throws a feast for the nobles with a lemon cake "just for her" while famine spreads across the country? Queen. Dany feels hungry in the middle of nowhere, malnourished, and feverish? And the wolf cry didn't stop her from being hungry? She's Aerys come again. That's why it'll be a-ok when Jon will betray her with a knife to the back during their intimacy so he can marry Sansa.

But seriously, I don't have any expectation that Jon/Dany would be without conflict, especially in ASOIAF because it's GRRM and things are messy. However, ASOIAF's relationships are always full of emotion, though, and that's what I'd expect and really love to read. Lots and lots of emotions, conflicting, confusing, surprising, fun fun emotions. Jon and Dany are both very young and they're both pretty scarred with one currently dead. And you know, maybe it's Dany who'd have the issue with Jon rather than Jon clutching his pearls at Dany because what if a child does die due to Jon's actions/commands or Jon is pushed to execute a wildling hostage? Yeah? What if it's Dany clutching pearls and Jon telling her to deal with it. And then they go into the back and Maybe maybe that's what we'll see one day, hey. I need to get sober.

[jackoshadows]

Why hate on Jonsa? Ship and let ship!! It's a cute ship.

Why do I write about Jonsa?

With no new book, mocking Jonsa is the most entertainment I have in this fandom nonnie! Please don't tell me to not talk about it 🙏

Also, cute?!! Jonsa is one of the most sexist, racist, classist ships in the fandom. And that's saying something in a fandom like Asoiaf. Cute is not the word I would use. More like garbage that belongs in the trash. Ship and let ship is fine until bigotry forms the basis of that ship and shippers turn one of the most forward thinking characters in the books to a self-loathing, shallow caricature, an antithesis of everything he is in the books and then attack book readers for pointing that out.

I call out Jonsa for

a) Subjecting Jon Snow to the worst character assassination I have ever seen. Yes, even worse than the show - remember pol!Jon is a thing!

b) Taking away from Arya's story, relationships and narrative importance and

c) Generally being absurdly nonsensical. Tyrion being a time traveling fetus makes more sense than the absolute shite Jonsa shippers throw out there every now and then.

#ask #anti Jonsa

[fromtheseventhhell]

If the show never existed and it was just the books, what common misconceptions would never exist or wouldn’t be taken as seriously?

So much 😭. Everything about Arya being "too far gone", her being an attack dog for her siblings, her not having any connections to the political plot, a lot about Mad Queen Dany (which didn't start with the show but it's now considered canon because of it), Jonerys being abusive, Dany being an incompetent ruler, no of the Starks will get along with Dany (her and Arya are literally sisters), people not being willing to accept Dany's rule, Jon being a squeaky clean boy scout, Pol!Jon and the idea that Jon is an idiot (two contradictory ideas that somehow came from the same show), Jonsa, Jon not wanting Winterfell, Bran being nothing but an emotionless tree, the direwolves being unimportant, the faceless men being reduced to assassins and Arya's training to fighting, Sansa being a political genius just because she was around Cersei (famously incompetent) and LF (who is lying to and manipulating her), in the same vein the idea that Sansa is smarter then Arya, Rickon is pointless (George wanted him in the show cause he had plans for him), [x] plot point can just be ignored cause it didn't mean anything in the show, the girl in grey being anyone but Alys Karstark, magic is evil actually 🙄, the dragons are evil, everything regarding the night king (somehow??? even though he doesn't even exist in the books???), people arguing with George himself that things are going to be different in the books, etc. etc. etc.

Just...the show ruined so much of the book story cause show watchers migrated to the book fandom. Even though George has been stating for a long time that the books and show are separate people seem unwilling to grasp that concept. So we're going to continue to suffer for that horrendous show until George releases TWOW.

#ask #anon #anti got #anti d&d #we will never know peace

[repairingahole]

Pol cleaning around with Jon :3

oh lord

#paul and john #ask #the beatles fanart

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

Jonerys Was A Game of Faces: More Evidence That Pol!Jon Was A Thing

Literally the scene before Jon bends the knee in 7x06:

This scene happens right after Dany watches as Jon's men undress him and sees the stab wounds from when Jon died.

Then we see Sansa sneaking into Arya's room and the first thing she sees after closing the door is a knife.

Then when Arya catches her rummaging around, Arya tells her about the Game of Faces she used to play while training to be a Faceless Man before she got her first Face:

"Back in Braavos, before I got my first Face, there was a game I used to play. A Game of Faces. It's simple, I ask you a question about yourself and you try to make a lie sound like the truth. If you fool me, you win. If I catch a lie, you lose. Let's play."

Sansa: "I don't want to play."

Arya: "How do you feel about Jon being King? Is there someone else you think should rule the North instead of him?"

Sansa: "Those faces...what are they?"

Arya: "Would you like to do the asking? Are you sure? The Game of Faces didn't turn out so well for the last person who asked me questions."

Sansa: "Tell me what they are."

Arya: "We both wanted to be other people when we were younger. You wanted to be a queen, to sit next to a handsome young king on the Iron Throne. I wanted to be a Knight, to pick up a sword like Father and go off to battle. Neither of us got to be that other person, did we? The world doesn't just let girls decide what they're going to be. But I can now. With the Faces, I can choose. I can become someone else. Speak in their voice, live in their skin. I can even become you." *she picks up the dagger* "I wonder what it would feel like to wear those pretty dresses. To be the Lady of Winterfell. All I'd need to find out is your face." *she hands the dagger to Sansa (indicating she's lost) & walks away*

Very next scene:

Jon comes to and finds Dany sitting right there, staring at him. He sees that she's upset and immediately begins to apologize, saying he wishes that they'd never gone. He even reaches for her hand to take in his. His body is covered except for the heart stab wound. And then what follows?

Dany tells him that she doesn't wish that, because now she's seen. She agrees to help him fight the NK because of what happened to Viserion. (meaning she's still not committed for the right reason which means things can still change, especially with someone who is impulsive) He thanks her, calling her Dany. She likens him to Viserys because that was who last called her Dany. "Not the company you want to keep."

"Alright. Not Dany. How about My Queen?" (this will come into play later in a near future post)

"I'd, um, bend the knee, but..." (notice how he looks away from her during this line; in the very same season he tells Sansa that Ned always said every word after 'but' was horseshit)

"They'll come to see you for what you are."

The very same music "See You For What You Are" plays later in 8x06 when Jon and Dany have that glare off on the steps in KL.

And in the scene before this (Arya and Sansa's scene), they make sure to show us Sansa seeing the dagger first (which connects her to Jon and that he took a dagger to the heart, the very wounds Dany was just ogling), Arya startles Sansa who immediately mentions that she has hundreds of men loyal to her ("but they're not here, are they?"), Arya begins the Game of Faces despite Sansa Jon not wanting to play, asks Sansa what she thinks of Jon as King (right before he's about to bend the knee?) and who should rule the North (something that Dany and Jon have been debating over), subtly threatens Sansa Jon and then switches the game around, she talks about how she wanted to be a different person as did Sansa (remember Dany trying to emulate Rhaegar at one point?) but neither of them got to be (Dany turned out to be nothing like Rhaegar except for the obsession with the prophecy/destiny thing), Arya threatens Sansa & and loses the game while Sansa Jon wins, and Arya walks away leaving Sansa Jon holding the dagger in his hand.

Not only is this incredible foreshadowing for what's coming down the pipe in the next season, but they're also purposely linking all of this together to show us one thing: in a way, Jon is playing the Game of Faces with Dany. Dany fell in love with Jon and despite her growing paranoia and distrust of him once she knew the truth about his parentage, he was the one able to get close enough to end her tyranny, the one she didn't supposedly see coming. Dany also wasn't able to fool Jon or Sansa or Arya or Bran or anyone else up North on who she really was and what she was. Even most of Westeros wasn't fooled into thinking she was this great Savior Queen that they wanted back on the IT. (Olenna, Ellaria, and Yara all joined her for revenge; only Yara showed any bit of buying Dany's sales pitch & that was more due to her feelings about the woman & the "promised" independence than anything) Dany was only ever able to use her "Faces" to fool others: Breaker of Chains, Mhysa, Mother of Dragons, Khaleesi. And things didn't turn out well for those who didn't "bend the knee" aka believe that image asked her questions.

Jon played the Game of Faces (even though he didn't want to) and won in the end. Do I think he was playing it maliciously? No. I think like Arya confirms in 8x04, he did whatever it took to get Dany and her dragons North to fight the NK. And since Sansa could easily see what Dany was and didn't want to play (until that convo in 8x02 but it was quickly dashed by Dany's anger at Sansa's asking about the North), after the NK had been defeated, he did whatever it took to keep Dany placated (and she was family to him) and keep Sansa safe (since Sansa was the only real threat left to her in Winterfell by Dany's own words in 8x04), as well as becoming a prisoner of Dany's because of her knowing who he really is.

It was all a Game of Faces.

I know people didn't care for this scene between Arya and Sansa at casual glance because it felt very OOC and some Sansa fans were upset at Arya for threatening her, but this is exactly why that scene is sandwiched between the Jon/Dany boat scenes, and why these two characters were chosen as the players to speak that dialogue. Sansa and Jon are connected in more ways than one here, never mind in the series. It makes sense that Arya would be the one to (hopefully) teach Sansa and the audience about this game and what it actually would mean for Jon's bending the knee and submitting to Dany. As well as his answer to Cersei's proposal in the next episode. Personally, I think it went over a lot of GA's heads (as we saw from some of their reactions to Dany going dark at all in the next season), but it was there.

And they even made sure to call back to that line Jon says to Sansa in 7x01 (another connection between them btw besides those mentioned above & the Prisoner theme) as an overt reference in and of itself.

This is proof in the pudding that pol!Jon was very much a thing. They just didn't execute it 100% correctly, and they abandoned it in the eleventh hour for whatever reason. But it's all right there.

#pol!jon #pol!jon meta #pol!jonposts #gotposts #metaposts #anti jonerys #antijonerysposts #jon and sansa connections #game of thrones #jon snow #got

[atopvisenyashill]

What are your thoughts on pol!jon? I’m no fan of j/d but pol!jon feels so out of character and cruel that I really can’t see it

Oof okay that’s an interesting question.

I think there's a lot of elements to the political!jon theory that people tend to just conflate into one big theory similar to how the grand northern conspiracy has some parts that are a little galaxy brained and some stuff that makes perfect sense and has a lot of grounding in the text.

So for anyone who is unaware - I know a lot of my oomfs didn't get into the series until after the show stopped airing - the pol!jon theory came from s7 of the show to explain the absolutely inconsistent and stupid decisions jon makes in s7 and s8. The idea was that, basically, like Torrhen Stark before him, Jon Snow bent the knee to Daenerys at Dragonstone not because he actually wants the North to be tied to the Iron Throne again or because he's loyal to Daenerys but rather because he is attempting to manipulate her; when he realizes that she will not come North to save his people but did cross the Wall to save him he makes the decision to seduce her in order to bring her to the North to defend his people.

Now...a lot of people really dislike this theory. They feel it's too cruel of Jon to do, it's OOC, I've even seen some people say that any sex between them is noncon (which...aight), etc etc. I do understand to a certain point why people think it's out of character for Jon to do this but the thing is...he literally has already done something very similar in canon. Look at his relationship with Ygritte:

Two hearts that beat as one. Mance Rayder’s mocking words rang bitter in his head. Jon had seldom felt so confused. I have no choice, he’d told himself the first time, when she slipped beneath his sleeping skins. If I refuse her, she will know me for a turncloak. I am playing the part the Halfhand told me to play. His body had played the part eagerly enough. His lips on hers, his hand sliding under her doeskin shirt to find a breast, his manhood stiffening when she rubbed her mound against it through their clothes. My vows, he’d thought, remembering the weirwood grove where he had said them, the nine great white trees in a circle, the carved red faces watching, listening. But her fingers were undoing his laces and her tongue was in his mouth and her hand slipped inside his smallclothes and brought him out, and he could not see the weirwoods anymore, only her. She bit his neck and he nuzzled hers, burying his nose in her thick red hair. Lucky, he thought, she is lucky, fire-kissed. “Isn’t that good?” she whispered as she guided him inside her. She was sopping wet down there, and no maiden, that was plain, but Jon did not care. His vows, her maidenhood, none of it mattered, only the heat of her, the mouth on his, the finger that pinched at his nipple. “Isn’t that sweet?” she said again. “Not so fast, oh, slow, yes, like that. There now, there now, yes, sweet, sweet. You know nothing, Jon Snow, but I can show you. Harder now. Yessss.” A part, he tried to remind himself afterward. I am playing a part. I had to do it once, to prove I’d abandoned my vows. I had to make her trust me. It need never happen again. He was still a man of the Night’s Watch, and a son of Eddard Stark. He had done what needed to be done, proved what needed to be proven.

Now, I don't think this is rape on either side but it's certainly uncomfortable, dubious consent wise, and not meant to be just a straight romantic scene. Ygritte isn't aware - though she does suspect - that Jon hasn't truly joined their side. Ygritte feels he's holding onto his vows out of stubborn pride or perhaps ignorance; she does not suspect he's actually going to betray them, but she can tell he's clearly conflicted over his desertion. Jon, meanwhile, is only having sex with Ygritte to prove he's a true deserter; he is actively manipulating her by playing on her fondness for him and invoking Wildlings customs like bride stealing when they have sex here.

So the idea that political!Jon is out of character doesn't really work because while Jon is clearly guilt ridden over it, he can and has used sex and romance as a manipulation tactic before. As for it being too cruel, well, let's ask Gilly about Jon's capacity for cruelty then hmm?

“You will make a crow of him.” She wiped at her tears with the back of a small pale hand. “I won’t. I won’t.” Kill the boy, thought Jon. “You will. Else I promise you, the day that they burn Dalla’s boy, yours will die as well.”

Jon is quite capable of cruelty when he wants to be just as surely as he's capable of manipulation. This doesn't mean he doesn't feel guilt or that he doesn't care for the people he manipulates. On the contrary, I think part of why Ygritte continuously echoes in Jon's mind as a sort of mentor figure is because of the guilt he feels for leading Ygritte straight to her death. When Ygritte briefly opens up to him about a past abusive relationship, he doesn't dismiss her at all, and seems to make an effort to otherwise be kind, affectionate, and loving to her. He's just also planning on betraying her because he feels the Wildlings as they are currently organized are too dangerous to just be set free on the unsuspecting North (and he's not wrong - his alliance forces the Wildlings to put down their arms, yes, but it also empowers the Wildlings to come to the negotiation table as equals, as people of Westeros rather than as nameless, faceless barbarians).

So no, I don't really think it's OOC for Jon to realize that the enemy he is facing is too dangerous to deal with as is but if he maneuvers them in such a way that they have to listen to him and negotiate as equals, he can keep his own people safe while in a prime position to deal with the threat if it gets out of control. He is also capable of ruthlessness - the entire battle at the ending of ASOS, killing Qhorin, the baby swap, killing Janos Slynt, etc - and cruelty and sexual manipulation.

I also think - and basically everyone agrees, it's not just me - that their "romance" is written incredibly badly and weirdly. So much so that I think it made sense that people would wonder if Jon has an ulterior motive. I reblogged this gifset to my personal a few years ago and you can really see Jon is just over everything that's happening on Dragonstone, he's incredibly unimpressed with Dany, he refuses to even indulge in her fantasies the way he does with Ygritte (like when Ygritte makes that "oh let's disappear into the caves" comment, Jon is wistful! He brings it up as she's dying to comfort both of them! He doesn't like what he's been doing even though he feels it's necessary!), and I know Kit has never been particularly gifted at emoting but he looks just straight up miserable the entire time he's with Dany.

So...even back in s7, I didn't think Jon was actively plotting to murder Dany but I did think he was manipulating her to get the end goal he wanted (protection for the North) and that there was a high chance he was going to turn on her later when the time was right. It wasn't like he was thinking "alright so once the Long Night is ended, here's my twelve step plan to get Dany off the throne and murder her" but I do think he felt like well, once the Long Night is dealt with, there's still a lot of other problems we have to deal with and who knows what might happen as those problems arise. I never thought he was interested in her long term. Some people seemed to think that was beyond the pale but like, that's literally how he felt about Ygritte - he never considered this a long term relationship even if it was a serious one.

If we get anything like that in the books - Jon seducing Dany to get close to her dragons - I generally imagine it going that once he figures out how to ride one of the dragons, he just makes off with it and leaves her high and dry. Maybe he plays up the "we're the blood of the dragon" angle as a distraction of some sort. But like - is he actively manipulating her specifically to usurp her? No. But is he worried about the North and willing to once again put his sexuality, emotions, honor, and body on the line to protect it? Yeah, I think that was the initial plan when they wrote s7 and if Joner.ys happens, I do imagine it's going to go like that; not actively trying to kill her (anymore than he was actively trying to kill Ygritte) but definitely using her feelings for him to get the goal he's aiming for (protection for the North).

#asks #anons #like people say it's too cruel and then dead ass turn around and say daemon had no ulterior motives for seducing rhaenyra #it's simply more complex than that. people can do things for more than one reason. #exactly like with corlys and rhaenys. we can acknowledge the political and the emotional #political jon #also if anyone reads this and wants to give me their opinion on ygritte. pls keep it in your drafts buddy. i do not care. #i do not like *anyone's* opinions on her except mine i think you're all weird.

[gaycelebtea]

Closeted celeb list updated for 2024:

Alejandro Speitzer

Andrew Garfield

Andrew Matarazzo

Asher Angel

Bad Bunny

Barry Keoghan

Bradley Cooper

Chace Crawford

Cody Fern

Carlos Scholz

Carlos Soroa

Carloto Cotta

David Mazouz

Derek Hough

Diego Garisa

Drake

Edgar Ramirez

Eduardo Siller

Fernando Lindez

Finn Jones

Finn Witrock

Francisco Dañobeitia

Gavin Leatherwood

Henry Cavill

Humberto Busto

Hugh Jackman

Jack Dylan Grazer

Jacob Elordi

Javier Morgade

Jeremy Allen White

Jeremy Irvine

Jeremy Renner

Joe Alwyn

Joe Jonas

John Mayer

Jon Kortajarena

Jorge Motos

Joshua Robert Colley

Justin Trudeau

Kevin Jonas

Luis Gerardo Mendez

Manu Rios

Miles Heizer

Milo Manheim

Nolan Gould

Oliver Jackson-Cohen

Paul Mescal

Pedro Pescal

Pol Monen

Richard Madden

Ross Lynch

Sam Heughan

Seann William Scott

Shawn Mendes

Shawn Pyfrom

Shemar Moore

Taylor Lautner

Taylor Zakhar-Perez

Taron Egerton

Tom Cruise

Tom Holland

Will Smith

#celeb list 2024 #closeted celebs #gossip #gay gossip #list #2024 #gay tea

[esther-dot]

Self-reblogging is great. I only started following you around 2021 and so I missed out on your post-GOT posts, but read some in your pol!jon tag. And there's always something new to add. You never know who hasn't seen what you've shared, and it's nice to revisit ideas even so. It's a great thing about Tumblr because everywhere else, things are so ephemeral.

(about this poll)

That’s true! I’ve really enjoyed @captainscifi22 ‘s blog recently because there are old metas and gifsets and fics (even by people I’ve followed ever since I joined the fandom), that I’ve never seen before so I keep saving things in my drafts to read later like a chipmunk stuffing my cheeks. 😂

Rebloggong stuff, even our own stuff, is an essential part of tumblr so we shouldn’t think twice about it. I’m working on not feeling self-conscious about it. Thank you, anon! 💗

#dot chat