#political jon theory

[atopvisenyashill]

🇵🇸 🇵🇷🐢🏝️ i got tired of complaining constantly on my main blog (@thewingedwolf is me!) about how sansa and rhaenyra did nothing wrong and also i needed a way to organize my theories and stuff. yes i have read all the books. yes i have (unfortunately) seen the whole show. yes i have seen all of hotd as well. so here we go. my stances are this, so you have an idea what to expect:

i am a catelyn, sansa, brienne, elia, and rhaenyra stan FIRST and a person SECOND

i would die Gaemon Palehair, Lady Essie, and Sylvenna Sand, those are my canon OCs, and that’s why they’re my header.

Sansa and Bran are my favorites! I am a Sansa will be Queen in the North truther and a Bran will be the King in Harrenhal conspiracy theorist, It Is Heavily Foreshadowed In The Text and I stand on that!!

I'm well aware Rhaenyra has plenty of faults, I am simply saying that the greens (as in, the characters) do not like her because of her gender, and not for stuff she does that’s actually wrong, also, idc that she did all of that i simply think she’s neat.

Helaena really IS the one who did nothing wrong tho.

i am a Dark Daenerys believer. no, i don’t hate her - in fact, i really love her, although i do hate her show counterpart - I just think her arc is heading towards a dark path and being a villain protagonist is the more interesting route for her character.

House Martell will rise or I will piss in old man germ’s cornflakes.

I Will talk about the racism Dorne faces in the text and outside of it and neither your favorite house nor my favorite house is exempt from this. If you have a problem with that, keep it to yourself bc i do not care 🙏🏽

i multiship!! just bc i ship it doesn’t mean i think it’s gonna happen in the series, i just like the dynamic!!

i am in fact the annoying book jonsa truther they warned you about. i will Stay bitter about this. argue with the wall.

with that said, i also like theonsa, throbb, daemyra, laenyra, rhaewin, nedcat, braime, briensa, and a million other ones. faves listed here. several of them are dead dove-esque; what can i say, that's just george's style.

you decide whether it’s romantic or platonic when it’s an incest one, my opinion changes by the hour & im gonna fight grrm for making me think this much about incest.

i don’t like jonerys!!!!!! i'm sansan & sanrion ambivalent and i simply do not care about littlefucker like that. i would say i’ve thought positively about basically every other ship.

i’m in the middle of a reread, as of this moment (april 2024) i’ve kinda stalled on the beginning of a dance with dragons but i Have started a rewatch of the tv series as a form of torture.

i first read this series when i was 16 in like 2012-2013. i love to bitch about the takes i’ve seen. i sometimes reblog really old ass graphics bc they deserve new life even tho the creators are long since deactivated. i sometimes make graphics that look like they’re from 2014 bc we should bring that style back dammit i hate the typography movement going on rn.

big on tagging triggers so lmk (i’ll tag for all characters & major triggers but i’m fine with adding a specific one if asked and don't worry about it being a "weird" trigger - if sean bean's face or knives or wolves or whatever trigger you, i'm happy to tag for that!).

i have a tag page that is more organized than the slapdash nonsense on this post, feel free to check it out here.

i may sound angry but i promise i am genuinely just here for a laugh. i just have resting bitch voice and no feel for tone and use the word fuck too much. it’s fine and unserious.

#getting on my soap box #some of my more commonly used tags are- #gender politics in asoiaf #lyanna and the starklings #smallfolk rise up #jon lyannason first of his name #the ghost of elia martell #the curse of visenya the conqueror #ados speculation #twow speculation #true knights #knighthood and oath keeping #ashford tourney theory #alysanne of harrenhal au #dreamer aegon au #there is always a lighthouse. there is always a man. there is always a city.

[annabelle--cane]

jon's an annoying oxbridge leftist. he's read all the foundational theory and he is going to make it everyone else's problem. martin is definitely left wing but he's also unfortunately susceptible to propaganda and has never really stopped to ponder politics beyond "god I hope whoever's in power next makes me a little bit less food insecure." melanie, alas, is Online, and will sometimes repeat a diet-anarchist take that she realizes she doesn't know how to properly back up and it will make her so mad and insecure that the event enters her regular nightmare rotation. elias's political affiliation is "please, I need the government to give more grant money to academia but I will die before I let my employees unionize."

#tma #marina marvels at life

[babybells123]

I recently posted about Sansa Stark on TikTok particularly concerning themes of beauty, love and romanticism (Jonsa if you SQUINT)!! It’s gotten over 2000 likes so far, and the comments have all been positive, but I just received a comment saying “Aegon VI will save her” and had to resist the urge to scratch my eyes out …

Look, I for one want nothing more than for Sansa to be with a man who loves her undoubtedly (and chooses her over her claim, countering all the previous men who have been betrothed to/married to/attempted to abuse Sansa). But I find it incredibly ironic that this is likely an individual who is aware of the Ashford Tourney (hell, maybe they’re even aware of the really subtle Targaryen imagery in Sansa’a chapters - but only if they’re in conjunction with Aegon VI, certainly not the secret cousin who just so happens to also be a Targaryen)… but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are an alt shift x fan who has watched his brief Ashford Tourney video which barely scratches the surface of the theory (and I too, enjoy Alt’s videos so don’t get me wrong here) but here’s what bothers me - why is the fandom so incredibly intent on ‘proving’ that it is Aegon?

He could be the loveliest, kindest man alive and I still wouldn’t budge on my stance of this marriage doing absolutely nothing to progress Sansa’s narrative arc organically.

How does it challenge her belief of conventionality? Particularly concerning southern ideals of beauty? What is the whole point of Sansa retracting from her current journey, travelling South yet again to marry a man whom she’s never met before? We’ve already been made privy to how wary Sansa is of Harry the Heir, for he could be a “comely monster,” she knows that beauty is deceptive - so already she’d be experiencing those similar feelings of despair … What purpose would it serve to send Sansa back to King’s Landing? A place where she was abused and married against her will? The place where her father was murdered in front of her eyes? The place where she was hostage with no true friends and no family to trust or rely on? Walking on eggshells every day of her life? These are all negative associations. Anyone with eyes and a brain can see that Sansa’a arc is pointing North.

This is the same girl who spends hours building a scale model of her home, Winterfell - in the snow. This is the same girl who refers to herself as the blood of Winterfell, the daughter of Lord Eddard and Lady Catelyn - who derives strength from that in the face of her abuser. This is the same girl who at the age of 11, manages to dissociate when faced with the head of her father on a spike, looking North and North until she can see Winterfell in her mind’s eye, whose direwolf - part of her soul, is buried in the North ; who to quote Ned “belongs in the North.” This is the same girl who has been passed around like a vessel of politics since her very first betrothal. Who has been viewed as nothing more than a claim to a vast Kingdom, who is not allowed to exercise that claim in her own right. Who has been denied her inheritance on the basis of her marriage to Tyrion - not just by Stannis , but also by the brother she has loved and idolised (and isn’t that just heartbreaking for Sansa?) - need I remind you of the one single person in this entire series who has not overhauled Sansa’s claim ? Despite it being the one thing he’s ever truly wanted? His hearts most intrinsic desire??

“By right Winterfell should go to my sister Sansa." (Jon I ADWD)

“Jon said, "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa." (Jon IV ADWD).

I mean, those two phrases in conjunction with;

“It is not me she wants her son to marry, it is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love.” (Sansa VI ASOS) - which as we know, is followed by a Jon chapter just a page later.

Jon has already unknowingly refuted half of Sansa’s despairing words, as well as silently fulfilling those knightly ideals she believes no longer exist.

So yeah, it annoys me beyond belief when people “theorise” that Sansa will marry Aegon VI/Young Griff. Because it removes her agency yet again, it pushes her further away from her identity and her home that she has slowly but surely been reclaiming - she goes five steps backwards, and regardless of whether you like her character or not, from a writing perspective and how character arcs are meant to unfold - it really doesn’t make sense for her to go back to the place where she has been tormented for most of the series - but then, who am I kidding - these are the same people who don’t believe sansa is an important character and that her arc will either remain stagnant or she’ll just be pushed out of the way whilst other characters are allowed narratively conclusive endings.

But even with all this, even with Valarr Targaryen being a non-Targaryen looking prince with brown hair described as a black prince with a white guardian (gee, I wonder whose image THAT invokes), even with GRRM sitting down and writing a family tree where a Jonnel ‘One Eye’ Stark marries a half niece called Sansa Stark to solve a succession crisis. Quite literally spelling it out on paper for people this fandom just cannot come to any logical conclusions that would make sense narratively, thematically, politically and on a character level. It truly blows my mind.

*sigh.* I’m very tired.

Anyway, to quote GRRM; resolve to be Sansa Stark and take the North. ✌️

#sansa stark #meta #my patience wearing thin #someone sedate me #Jonsa #Jon x Sansa #the black prince with the white guardian

[laurellerual]

I just realized that many of the most boring theories about the ADOS endgame of some characters can be boiled down to just plucking a sentence from their latest published chapter. For exemple:

In ADWD (The Ugly Little Girl) Arya says she is "No One" and the Kindly man doesn't correct her so, this clearly means Arya will just lose her identity and that's it. This was such a common theory for years somehow. Except that we have TWOW (Mercy) so we know that Arya beign No One lasted less then one chapter.

Or Dany's future madness that can be traced back to ADWD (Daenerys X) where she says to herself that "Dragons plant no trees" and "Fire and Blood". So apparently a thought made in one of her most desperate moment will characterize the entirety of her future politics in Westeros.

Or Bran that in ADWD (Bran III) is in Bloodraven's cave so his endgame is to be in that cave for the rest of his life obv.

Or Sansa that in AFFC (Alayne II) has Littlefinger saying to her "every knight in the Vale will pledge his sword to win you back your birthright. So those are your gifts from me, my sweet Sansa... Harry, the Eyrie, and Winterfell." so this is clearly what is gonna happen. Because that is what usually happen in ASOIAF to plans that get spelled out like that.

What's next? Jon was killed at the end of his last chapter so he will stay dead for the rest of the story? Oh wait... this theory exist too.

#arya stark #bran stark #daenerys targaryen #fandom bs

[jackoshadows]

Just saw a couple of posts where someone was insisting that there is no way Jon Snow would remain friends with Tyrion or how it would be 'bizarre' if Jon is still friends with Tyrion on account of the marriage to Sansa.

It wouldn't be 'bizarre' if one actually read A Dance with Dragons and the many chapters GRRM devotes to Jon Snow agonizing over Arya Stark's marriage while not even writing one line where Jon is concerned over Sansa's own marriage.

Especially when Sansa's marriage is actually brought up in conversation as a reason for why Stannis does not want her getting Winterfell and Jon doesn't say or think anything about her marriage to Tyrion preventing her from getting Winterfell other than go

This is what happens when the Asoiaf material one consumes is all Tumblr metas and Jonsa 'theories' instead of actually reading the books. This is what happens when one homogenizes the canonically diverse Stark sibling dynamics into uniformity and apply what Jon Snow thinks of one sibling to all the siblings.

In canon, in the books, in ADwD, when Stannis mentions how Sansa Lannister is never getting Winterfell while he lives, Jon Snow's thoughts or concerns is not for Sansa being forced to marry the enemy. No, what he thinks about is the news of his friend Tyrion being a kinslayer and Jon having a hard time imagining the kind man he shook hands with killing his own father.

Tyrion Lannister looked beyond class barriers and even political barriers (Given the enmity between houses Stark and Lannister) to help and advice Jon Snow when even his father and uncle don't warn him about the NW's current status. Tyrion supports Jon against the likes of Alliser Thorne - he had no need to do so - simply because it was the right thing to do and carries home messages for Jon and helps Bran - simply because Jon asked him to do it. And Jon Snow is a character who values his friendships.

And for that matter, Jon Snow never ever turns up in Sansa's nostalgic memories of home and family - contradictory to popular fanon/fanart they probably hardly ever interacted - and she admits to forgetting about him until Myranda Royce mentions Jon and then wants to see him because now all her true brothers are dead and no one else is left.

In fact when Sansa considers her options of where to flee from the Vale she thinks of going to Tyrion if he was still alive while never even thinking of Jon at the Wall. Sansa is also imagining kisses with the Hound - a man who Sansa knows killed Stark men, including Vayon Poole, her friend Jeyne's father.

As the boy’s lips touched her own she found herself thinking of another kiss. She could still remember how it felt. - Sansa, AFFC And Littlefinger was no friend of hers. When Joff had her beaten, the Imp defended her, not Littlefinger. When the mob sought to rape her, the Hound carried her to safety, not Littlefinger. - Sansa, AFfC

Jon does not judge his relationships based on how they interacted with Sansa no more than Sansa judges her relationships based on how they interacted with Jon because these are two characters who have never interacted on page and have a distant familial relationship off page. Jon and Sansa don't consider each other important in the narrative as Stark siblings because GRRM does not consider their relationship/dynamic important enough to devote page time to it.

#Jon Snow #Tyrion Lannister #Sansa Stark #asoiaf

[lemonhemlock]

strange that people had the thought that sansa was gonna stay in the vale and not go back to winterfell for so long when geographically other than bran(beyond the wall having trippy visions)/jon("dead")/rickon (cannibal island skagos) sansa is way closer to winterfell than a lot of characters and the knights of the vale is pretty much a chekhov's gun especially since like you said they havent joined the war yet and somehow sansa marching to winter fell with them was unbelievable since like 2009-2018 (her story might not follow the show especially because of the diverged storylines and she has the alternative to escape the vale but who knows)

It's no secret that Sansa was a very hated character throughout GoT's run. People ~manifesting she would stay in the Vale was a way of wishful-thinking her out of the narrative. Their dislike made them ignore reason and come up with many silly theories.

Much has been said about Sansa's pawn-to-queen narrative, but the main argument for her surviving the series is that, if GRRM wanted to kill her, he had many, many opportunities to do so in five books and didn't. Sansa is physically and socially vulnerable & her POV focuses on her rich internal world, strength and endurance, yet she remains unscathed and is instead learning court politics. Why is that? It's basic bildungsroman storytelling. Denying that is just being petty at this point.

Sansa also cannot remain in the Vale as Alayne, since that is Littlefinger's plot. Only the most delulu stans will not accept that a shady person such as Littlefinger will face authorial punishment for his sins. And, when he does die, what's stopping Sansa from claiming her identity? Especially as she finds out the feared and detested Ramsay Bolton has married "Arya Stark". She will naturally want to help her sister.

Now, I need to re-read for this, but I believe it is hinted in AFFC that Myranda Royce slyly figured out who Sansa is. If you remember the prologue of AGOT, the fancy, pretentious Night's Watch ranger from the group of three that first encounter the white walkers, is Waymar Royce. He is the third son of Bronze Yohn, head of House Royce. I did a quick search to refresh my memory:

"Bronze Yohn knows me," she reminded him. "He was a guest at Winterfell when his son rode north to take the black." She had fallen wildly in love with Ser Waymar, she remembered dimly, but that was a lifetime ago, when she was a stupid little girl. "And that was not the only time. Lord Royce saw . . . he saw Sansa Stark again at King's Landing, during the Hand's tourney." Petyr put a finger under her chin. "That Royce glimpsed this pretty face I do not doubt, but it was one face in a thousand. A man fighting in a tourney has more to concern him than some child in the crowd. And at Winterfell, Sansa was a little girl with auburn hair. My daughter is a maiden tall and fair, and her hair is chestnut. Men see what they expect to see, Alayne." He kissed her nose. "Have Maddy lay a fire in the solar. I shall receive our Lords Declarant there."

(AFFC, Alayne I)

I mean... you can't be more explicit than that. The Royces know who Sansa is, but they'll just keep quiet and play out this charade?

#sansa stark #ask #anon

[asoiaf-essays-collector]

For me, idk if Sansa is the girl in grey in Melisandre's prophecy and i don't care if they reunite at the Wall, in the Vale, in Winterfell or on the way, because the thing is its almost given that Sansa and Jon will be the first Starks to reunite since they are the most distant ones. Its how grrm works. The Starks are the central family of the series and out of their four povs that remain, Jon and Sansa are the only ones to not have a defined relationship and their reunion in twow before others will give them time to develop one.

In defence of the girl in grey theory - at this point it almost impossible to imagine her being not sansa. As much as I would prefer the vale meeting. Just think of it - Jon and Melisandre were thinking that the girl in grey would be Arya but ironically it was Jeyne Pool/Alys Karstark who happened to be geographically more convenient? Nah, that's not the irony of GRRM. Now, Sansa who Jon barely registers as sister in his inner pov - that would be the irony that we are used to in ASOIAF.

The girl in grey being not the Stark but someone else entirely just because this girl fits the criteria? It's not interesting. It gives the same vibes as theory that Cersei's valonqar is neither Tyrion nor Jaime and some other person that just happens to be someone else's younger sibling. That's just boring.

"Jon and Sansa are the only ones to not have a defined relationship" - oooh, now that's the topic I can speculate about for hours.

I'm rereading ASOS right now and gosh, the ways GRRM chooses to portray these two while their lack of any established relationship in books? That's simply fascinating how he dances around some words and names.

One of the most interesting part of this lack of interactions is the fact that it doesn't mean that they don't have this defined relationship. Their meeting and then dynamic will be a total wild card - unlike any other pair of siblings. They can literally have any dynamic and shared history or lack of it and we have no idea what it will be. I'm so excited!

And it's not only that. There is a conflict between them too - until they learn that Bran and Rickon are alive they both are kinda heirs of Starks and Winterfell, both are ruler coded since AGOT and their political strengths complement each other's weaknesses. Moreover, both can support each other's claim. Sansa Stark while being legitimate heir in many lords eyes is still married to Lannister and everyone knows it and she is also a girl who doesn't know how to wage a war. On the other hand Jon Snow even with Stark blood printed on his Ned Stark (who is still beloved in the North) face is still a bastard and can't interfere with claim of legitimate heirs (given that Robb's will is still unknown). One of them on his/her own can raise a lot of questions but two can make a decent claim.

So yeah.

Sansa and Jon meeting first of the pack is making quite a lot of sense from every point of view. It's not just that they are most distant siblings and thus make more interesting pair to interact, it's also very practical for GRRM if he wants Starks to go on the offensive - two of them combined can actually form a decent political power (in terms of both claim and set of skills). No other pair of Starks has that.

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #sansa stark #the girl in grey

[agentrouka-blog]

Favorite Jonsa theory?

Oh hello! :)

My favorite theory - as in a way it might play out in canon - would be the secret marriage for love, I think. Jon and Sansa, stripped of all outward political motivations, making a pledge and promise to each other, solely for the sake of each other.

It's where Sansa's "no one will ever marry me for love" meets Jon's fantasy of "love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us".

It's a personal and even religious commitment, steeped in the place they both call their home, "the blood of Winterfell", a very symbolic signal of the renewal of House Stark, and how it consecrates its point of origin with love instead of human sacrifice. And it's a reversal and repudiation of the horrific wedding ceremony of Jeyne Poole and Ramsay beneath that same tree, a mirror to the story of Jace and Sara that otherwise has no point in being told at all.

Yep, count me in for marriage for love.

#jonsa

[dykepuffs]

I want to argue that Dracula is the first work of Nokiawave.

-It's heavily concerned with new technology which drives the plot: Telegrams between everyone being collated into the text, Dr Seward's audiolog on the phonograph which Mina types up, mass transit in the form of both trains and Tube, steamships (and specifically the contrast between steam and sail) and loads of minor examples.

-It's concerned with new social technologies and social change: Mina is a typist, a respectable modern job for a young middle-class woman. Jon is a clerk and is working in an exciting emerging market. Dr Seward uses all the modern methods and keeps up with theory and scientific developments. Lucy is pleased to have plenty of male friends, not just to be seeking to marry. And it contrasts this with both the "good" Old Ways - The helpful, hopeless, peasants who give Jon his anti-vampire icon, the "broad minded" but also clearly steeped in superstition Van Helsing - and the "bad" Old Ways - Obviously, Dracula and also the enslaved Roma (Who, oh god, I I have to write about them in the context of Romanian chattel slavery of Roma, which was technically abolished in stages throughout the 2nd half of the 19th century, but where emancipation came with enforced sedentarism and obligation to a landowner - And where many remained enslaved in all practical terms into the C20th, and specifically in Transylvania the effects of Maria Theresia's Four Decrees that were still in effect that meant they would both be indentured to a landowner as "new farmers" and their children would be kidnapped by the state and given to white families for "reeducation" - but most people analysing the text seem to treat them as willingly Evil Minions).

-It's full of the anxieties about what Eastern and Southern Europe will do as they "modernise and open" (ie become financially and culturally available to the West) and specifically the fear of the Rich Slavic* Oligarch (to a certain kind of British mind, anyone east of Berlin and north of Athens is Slavic, sigh) spreading their malign influence in the Capital Cities of the West. Even the touch that Dracula was once a warlord but is now a slick investor and man-about-town.

-It has lots of continent hopping, focusing on the ~local colour~ in Transylvania and the contrast between both the "superstitious" locals and the traveller who finds it all very quaint and interesting but not very serious, and between the poverty of the normal people and the wealth and seclusion of Dracula, and then likewise giving us whistle-stop tours of the interesting bits of Whitby and London, making the city as much of a character as the humans. The Westerner abroad is seen as just a natural phenomenon, but the foreigners* in Britain are notable and exotic.

- It has a mysterious superweapon/monster which is hidden around a big western capital city, where most people (and even the police and regular military) have no idea what it is and are powerless to stop it, and a lot of tension lies on the crux of "What happens if this gets out here, surrounded by all these civilians?" - In a way that treats the mythological East* as a natural place for atrocities to occur, but them happening in London is a shock.

-It has spying: Jon sneaking around the locked-up Carfax with his miniature camera, trying to take pictures to find out what Dracula is doing in there, could have absolutely been in a 1990s thriller. Likewise, meeting in Harrods to avoid suspicion because it's a plausible place for a fashionable young lady to be, surrounded by anonymising crowds.

-It has information warfare: Dracula reading up on British politics, studying maps of London, paying clerks and using shell companies to disguise his property acquisitions, and likewise the heroes using the telegram and port records and the sheer mass of paperwork generated by his activities to track Dracula, which feels like close kin to the Nokiawave staples of finding someone on cctv or by their credit card, or their car registration being flagged at a checkpoint. Jonathan lamenting the lack of an Ordnance Survey in Europe and the unmapped bits of Transylvania specifically really fits with the idea of the "Control Grid" posited by Gregory Flaxman who writes a lot about surveillance and information control in cinema.

-It has a team of both specialists and laypeople who were dragged into the action by circumstance, and much relies on their relationships. The laypeople's "unimportant" skills (Jonathan's knowledge of property and finance especially, and Mina's skills with logistics as well as her innovation and bravery in using herself as a conduit to Dracula) turn out to save the day. The team is multi-national and basically represents The Free World (TM), as well as allowing for jokes about national stereotypes.

-Mina being notably not a damsel in distress, but instead using her personal connection to the villain to absolutely ruin him in ways that nobody else could, is very much like the role of many women in Nokiawave films: She may be traumatised and in danger, more than anyone else because of the villain's obsession with her, but she's smart and deadly and willing to take risks to complete the mission.

-It ends with a massive cross-continental vehicle chase with tonnes of explosions.

#dracula daily #dracula

[rainhadaenerys]

One thing that I always saw from Dany antis, but never really wrote a proper post to refute, is the claim that Quentyn is not the Sun's son, it's Young Griff, and that Young Griff is not the mummer's dragon, it's Jon. So I want to make a post about this.

The argument usually goes: "Quentyn can't be the Sun's son because he is the Sun, not the Sun's son. The Sun's son must be Young Griff". But by this logic, Dany can't be called "the dragon's daughter" because she's the dragon, not the dragon's daughter. And yet, she is called the dragon's daughter and daughter of dragons. At some point people have to recognize that GRRM was just trying to be poetic. Quentyn is pretty much confirmed to be the Sun's son: he tried to steal Dany's dragon, and if that wasn't enough, his death creates a political problem for Dany in her negotiations with Dorne. So he was one of the people that Quaithe warned her she shouldn't trust.

Another argument is that "Aegon is not the mummer's dragon, he really is Elia's son, so Jon is the mummer's dragon, because Jon was hidden and playing a false role just like a mummer". And like… no. First of all, because there's a lot of evidence that Aegon is not the real Aegon, and that he could actually be Illyrio's son:

First, why wouldn’t Illyrio tell Dany and Viserys about him, or at least tell Doran and his family?

If Elia made a deal to save Aegon, why didn’t she try to save Rhaenys as well?

Why didn’t Elia tell anyone about this supposed plan? She could have written a letter to her family and Varys could have delivered it to them so that they would know Aegon survived.

Why would the Golden Company (that was always loyal to the Blackfyres) help a Targaryen prince? Especially when we consider that Viserys asked for the Golden Company’s help and was rejected, so it makes no sense for them to suddenly want to help some other Targaryen;

Illyrio even says something that hints very heavily at Aegon being a Blackfyre, when Tyrion asks him why would the Golden Company help a Targaryen: "Black or red, a dragon is still a dragon."

Illyrio’s wife had golden and silver hair;

Illyrio’s house has children’s clothes but there seems to be no sign of children in his house;

Young Griff is traveling with a septa that has stretch marks from a pregnancy;

Illyrio even says: “I told you, my little friend, not all that a man does is done for gain. Believe as you wish, but even fat old fools like me have friends, and debts of affection to repay.”

Illyrio also sends Young Griff gifts and sounds "oddly sad" when talking about him.

Of course, nothing is set in stone until GRRM writes the next books and reveals the truth, but people have to stop acting like there's no basis for the Aegon Blackfyre theory, because there is basis.

And Jon as the mummer's dragon makes no sense. If Jon was going to be referred to as playing a false role (and therefore being a "mummer's something"), he would be a mummer's wolf, not a mummer's dragon, because no one knows Jon is a "dragon", everybody thinks he is a wolf. He is posing as a wolf, as a Stark bastard. Quaithe and the Undying didn't warn Dany against a mummer's wolf, but against a mummer's dragon. They didn't warn her against someone being paraded as a wolf but who is not a real wolf, they warned her against someone being paraded as a dragon but who is not a real dragon (which can only be Young Griff, because there's no other character being paraded as a dragon in the story).

Finally, all of Dany's other prophecies seem to refer to different people. Daughter of Death refers to Viserys, Rhaego (the tall lord with copper skin and silver hair) and Rhaegar (the dying prince with rubies flowing from his chest); Bride of Fire refers to Drogo, probably Hizdahr (the corpse on the ship), and Jon (blue flower in a wall of ice); Slayer of lies seem to refer to Stannis (blue-eyed king with no shadow), Aegon (mummer's dragon) and probably Euron (stone beast breathing shadow fire from a smoking tower). Jon is already in another prophecy, the bride of fire prophecy. It would break the pattern GRRM wrote if he also was the cloth dragon (I'm not saying that it's impossible for GRRM to decide to break the pattern in these prophecies, just that this pattern is another clue that Jon likely won't appear twice and Aegon is the mummer's dragon).

#asoiaf meta #daenerys targaryen #young griff #my meta

[atopvisenyashill]

Pol!jon anon again I was thinking more of the version of pol!jon where he like forces an abortion on her and reveals that he loved Sansa all along. When I watched the show I was thinking he was attracted to Dany and wanted to be with her initially but grew more and more fearful of her and eventually did not want to be with her. So he wasn’t manipulating when the relationship started, but staying in it was a scheme. Imagine my shock when I read the script for the finale and it said that Jon loved her even after she burned KL. Bad writing and bad chemistry between actors. I can definitely imagine Jon remaining in a relationship for safety and politics as a defensive play, but the offensive angle of pol!Jon in which he initiates the relationship with no feelings or desire with the intention of killing her feels wrong especially if a forced abortion is involved

Okay I’m gonna go point by point here just for organization sake.

Pol!jon anon again I was thinking more of the version of pol!jon where he like forces an abortion on her and reveals that he loved Sansa all along.

Oh no lmao, I forgot about all the baby theories for s7 and 8 😭😭 No, I don’t think what MMD says is a prophecy at all, I think people focus on the WRONG things out of that whole scene, and while I think george is clearly cooking something re: dany’s fertility, that’s gonna be something so central to the story i don’t think anyone is gonna guess it 100% right so everyone’s guesses are weird as FUCK on this subject. but also not for nothing, i’m fairly sure the moontea theory was like one (1) person and then everyone just kept going “wow so ALL pol!jon people think he’s gonna force an abortion on dany they’re so evil” no, actually most people who thought pol jon might be real didn’t think for a second that boat baby was real lmao. it was just like a “making up a guy to get mad at” theory that got traction bc of the ship war.

i DID see some people theorize he might tell dany he’s in love with sansa but like thee Moment he had zero reaction to finding out he was Rhaegar’s child was thee MOMENT i knew we were not getting a single satisfying jon snow scene again and that whatever it is that happens in the books for him clearly went RIGHT THE FUCK OVER dumb & dumber’s heads 😭😭😭 so like, yeah i just didn’t think anything at all even a lil but juicy was gonna happen and what do you know i was pretty much correvt akskkd

i DO think there’s a high chance that threatening sansa is the most pressing reason for why jon & arya would attempt to kill her and i’ve definitely played with some gruesome theories just based on lines that i thought could be hinting at what they do but i don’t think there’s going to be any moontea drinking, forced or otherwise, involved. i certainly HOPE she’s not pregnant when/if she dies because i fucjing. hate that shit. but idk.

When I watched the show I was thinking he was attracted to Dany and wanted to be with her initially but grew more and more fearful of her and eventually did not want to be with her. So he wasn’t manipulating when the relationship started, but staying in it was a scheme.

Yeah I think that also makes sense and could plausibly happen in the books - I mean that’s basically what I kinda imagine in my head, that Jon may be fascinated with Dany initially bc she’s a Targaryen & dragon rider then turn on her but only in secret, just, without the sex lmao. I just personally did NOT see the chemistry and I remember when they made that “oh you got a lil crush Jon Snow?” comment in the show and i was flabbergasted and when they banged I was actively cringing and I thought maybe it was just my aversion to them as a ship but then everyone online was like “but they’re so cute in interviews what’s happening??!” aksjd. so i think like many people i was hoping there was a deeper reason he seemed so disinterested, like even completely putting aside the shipping aspects, i thought jon seducing dany so he could get a dragon made a sort of sense with his character. he’s certainly willing to play nice with stannis for help, and this would be a much more morally murky but logical next step. but i had zero faith in the writers, so i DID just assume it was going to be (the much more boring route imo) that he did initially love her, realized she’s too dangerous, but stayed in a relationship with her to get her support.

Imagine my shock when I read the script for the finale and it said that Jon loved her even after she burned KL. Bad writing and bad chemistry between actors.

LISTEN. The conspiracy theory HOLES i went down after that fucking finale. i was just like. there’s no way they wrote an ending THIS BAD. there’s NO FUCKING WAY. and then we get the script and it was WORSE???? he was really just snowed by her THE WHOLE TIME???????

i guess apparently being hot is NOT enough to compensate, we need ACTORS for chemistry okay, at least ONE PERSON needs to be able to emote to sell a love story lmaooo

I can definitely imagine Jon remaining in a relationship for safety and politics as a defensive play, but the offensive angle of pol!Jon in which he initiates the relationship with no feelings or desire with the intention of killing her feels wrong especially if a forced abortion is involved.

Yeah that was basically what I was getting at and why I made the Ygritte comparison - he has sex with Ygritte while actively plotting to betray her in a very personal way so I don’t think it’s a reach to say he could something similar again. I can also see it stretching into like, Jon makes the decision he has to kill her/help kill her but he hasn’t broken things off bc like, KL exploded and he’s busy rn or whatever. So certainly still offensive in that he’s actively manipulating her for his own ends and unlike with Ygritte, he doesn’t even return her feelings in any genuine way. VS like the completely defensive “he falls in love, realizes she’s too far gone, THEN betrays her” take. But starting a relationship with her with the express intent of murdering her and forcing an abortion on her if she gets with child? With everything we know about Jon Snow as he stands, that one is a reach. That could change in the future I suppose but I personally don’t see it likely to happen that way.

#asks #anons #political jon #talking about the show makes me feel so dumb. it was SUCH a dumb show at the ending aksjdjdj #like the ending theories are wild bc the show made no sense!!!! 😂😂😂😭😭😭😭😭

[karuvapatta]

so hey, remember when I said I wasn't going to write any more Jonelias? but then things happened, we started chatting about a fantasy AU on the Jonelias discord server, and, uh. I wrote a short ficlet set in said AU...?

***

Jon knocked on the door, once, twice; his hands shook slightly, so the rhythm of it was unpleasantly erratic. Should he knock again? He didn’t want to appear rude or impatient, but he also didn’t want to risk being too quiet. If the man didn’t hear him, if he thought Jon was running late—

“Come in.”

He took in a steadying breath and pushed the door open. Immediately he stepped into a patch of sunlight, streaming directly from the huge, ornate window on the opposite wall. He blinked, narrowed his eyes; the desk was silhouetted against the bright sky, and it took him a moment to adjust.

“Mr Sims, I presume?”

“I—yes. Jonathan Sims. Er.” Jon cleared his throat. “Thank you for agreeing to meet me, Master Bouchard. It’s an. An honour.”

“Oh, the pleasure is all mine,” Master Bouchard said smoothly. “Please, take a seat.”

He gestured at a chair in front of his desk. Jon took a few careful steps in its direction, and then sat down on the edge of the seat, taking care not to slouch. The bag he forgot to take off his shoulder dangled awkwardly. He had to shuffle around to remove it, and first placed it on his lap, before setting it down on the floor next to the chair. His hands were sweaty; he wiped them off on his trousers before he could think better of it, and then attempted to smooth the resultant creases in the fabric. His left cuff rode up an inch, so he tugged it down, and made sure it laid snug and secure around his wrist. Only then did he manage to look up.

Master Bouchard was watching him, the corner of his mouth twitching momentarily before settling into a polite smile. His steel-grey eyes flickered down to Jon’s hands, no doubt noting all the nervous gestures. His gaze felt—weighty. Not unsympathetic, just—

Jon swallowed.

“Shall we begin, then?” Bouchard asked. “Your resume is quite impressive for one so young, Mr Sims. Five publications across two journals…”

“Three,” Jon said. “I mean—I wrote three articles. For the other two, I was a co-author… mostly editorial input…” Again, he tried to clear his throat. He shouldn’t have interrupted a Master; he should have kept his mouth shut. Damn.

But Bouchard didn’t seem frazzled by the blatant disrespect. He opened a file on his desk – Jon’s file. Jon’s resume, his letter of recommendation, a printout of the articles, his diploma… Bouchard skimmed the contents. Had he read them before? He must have had. Or maybe he didn’t have time in his busy schedule to review every single applicant. But, then again – why invite Jon for a meeting?

“Why do you want to study Divination, Mr Sims?” Bouchard asked.

This question, Jon knew to expect. He managed to recite his well-rehearsed answer with no incriminating pauses or unnecessary repetitions. Finally.

“What about practical spellwork?” Bouchard asked.

Jon paused for a second. “I don’t—I’m not really well-versed in that area. I prefer theory to practice.”

“Did you take any of the relevant courses?”

Damn. Damn.

“I, uh,” Jon stammered. “I took one semester of the introductory module. It was—well—it wasn’t a subject I wanted to pursue.”

Let that be it, Jon thought. Obviously it came up; it had to come up. Very few people enrolled at the Institute to study theory.

“Can you show me what you have learned?”

“I didn’t learn anything,” Jon said sharply. He flinched, then, at the tone of his voice, and at the implications – that he was too lazy or too stupid to learn. It made him look exceedingly unprofessional. “I meant—I don’t see how this is relevant to the position I’m applying for,” he amended. Then, hastily: “Master.”

“A peculiar question,” Bouchard said. “You yourself wrote several paragraphs on the potential interference of errant magic on pre-existing enchantments.”

“I do not use magic,” Jon said. “I won’t be causing any interferences.”

“Even so. Accidents happen.”

“They won’t.” Jon grabbed his sleeve and shoved it upwards, exposing his wrist, and the thin, silver bracelet encircling it, with its webbing of faintly pulsating strands. “Whatever magic I might accidentally use will be fully suppressed. It’s not going to be a problem.”

Bouchard was watching him attentively, gaze flickering between the bracelet and Jon’s face. He didn’t seem surprised; was it written down somewhere in Jon’s file, then? Or did he have some other means of detecting such objects? Some mages were reportedly able to sense the subtle alterations in a person’s aura, the miniscule difference between absent and suppressed magic, even without the relevant spells or implements. But Jon could hardly believe those reports. They seemed rather far-fetched.

“May I?” Bouchard asked. His meaning became clear when he leaned forward and extended his hand, palm up, inviting. Jon examined it, warily. Was he expected to remove the bracelet? Bouchard wasn’t expecting him to do something that foolish, did he?

It seemed rude to keep him waiting, though. And Jon was on thin enough ground as it was. So, slowly, he placed his hand on the desk, within range of Bouchard’s touch.

He couldn’t help flinching in his seat when the man’s long, slender fingers brushed his bare skin. Bouchard’s hand was warm, textured with callouses, scars and imperfections; its movements were clever and purposeful, as he examined the bracelet. He wasn’t using magic, as far as Jon could tell. Or maybe he was, and it was too subtle for Jon to notice.

“Remarkable,” Bouchard said under his breath.

Jon slipped his hand from the man’s hold and drew back, tugging the sleeve down, nearly to the level of his knuckles, to make sure the thing was completely covered. He didn’t want to meet Bouchard’s gaze. Mostly, he just wanted to go home.

#jonelias #the magnus archives #elias bouchard #jonathan sims

[the-king-andthe-lionheart]

In the online ASOIAF fandom Arya is considered by most to be "ugly" (even though there is vast evidence in the books stating the contrary and that Arya looks like Lyanna, a Northern Beauty). By the majority of the fandom Arya is also wrongly considered to be "feral", "a savage", "or beastly". According to the majority of the online fandom Arya "goes around biting people", and there are very popular theories about Arya becoming subservient to Sansa, or that she will die, her spirit will go into HER direwolf Nymeria, and Nymeria/Arya will become Sansa's pet. By the majority of the fandom, the Stark looking Starks (Arya, Jon, and Ned) are considered to be less attractive than the Tully looking Starks, either described as "plain" (Ned and Jon) or "ugly" (Arya). So why are you all surprised when you get called out for drawing the Stark looking Starks as darker skinned or Indigenous? Like headcanon what you like, but at least be fucking consistent and draw all of the Starks as dark skinned, and not just the ones considered to be "uglier" and "less civilized". It's racist. Yeah, I'm going to call it what it is, IT'S RACIST. I'm an Indigenous woman and I'm telling you that white people doing this is disgusting and racist. Especially considering the First Men (ie. the Starks) are not Native to Westeros or the North. They are colonizers who genocided the actual natives of Westeros, the Children of the Forest. So you are depicting actual genocidal colonialists with people in the real world who were actually genocided? That's fucked up. So don't be surprised when you're called out on it, especially by BIPOC fans.

Edit: Oh yes, let's also not forget that by the majority of the fandom, the Stark looking Starks are considered to be "stupid" or "dumb" or of being less intelligent and politically savvy than the Tully looking Starks.

#arya stark #jon snow #eddard stark #ned stark #house stark #asoiaf

[catofoldstones]

j0ns@ isnt 100% to me but stans disbelieving in the ashford tourney interpretations now because it didnt fit what they wanted makes me lol now its invalid by having robert arryn when its not supposed to be a 100% recreation, harrold harryn is too much coincidence that it signals sans@'s suitors ,saying the final targaryen suitor died is coping because like Valarr Targaryen, jon also just died the difference is he'll get resurrected

my favourite excuse is "well nobody married lady ashford" well duh its a tourney,it might not even happen in a romantic light more for desperate political reasons the denial is hysterical

Hi anon,

I understand their need to constantly be “debunking” the theory because how dare Sansa have a parallel in another book and thereby be an important character in the series as a whole😤

I don’t think Robert Arryn is the chink in the armour they think he is. With all of Sansa’s previous suitors & Harry, there have been concrete plots to get her married to them. She was officially betrothed to Joffrey (the Baratheon suitor) before the Tyrells brought in Willas (the Tyrell suitor) and were actively planning to spirit her away to Highgarden right under the Lannisters’ noses, only for them to catch wind of the plan (if it can even be put that way) and forcefully get Sansa married to Tyrion (the Lannister suitor). As for Harry, Baelish’s northern plan comes into play which rests on the heels of Sansa getting married to Harry. Not to mention Hardyng is a pretty unknown House to just throw in, dontcha think?

Lysa brings up Sweetrobin in passing, with no plan or even an actual intention to marry them. This is literally never brought up again when Lysa is alive, or even after. The only one repeating any similar sentiment is Sweetrobin himself, who has a crush on Sansa but clearly doesn’t know what it means. So should we take Sweetrobin as a valid suitor? I mean, do crushes count? Because then why not include a whole legion of other Westerosi men who are interested in Sansa and make it a watertight argument. Baelish absolutely wants to marry Sansa, he even asked Cersei for Sansa’s hand in marriage, why isn’t he included? “Because…” yeah you’re there. My point is, the arguments against Baelish & SR are both strong but take a step back to what they have in common, Sansa’s story is leading somewhere else and thematically neither of them fit. One is less serious than the other & thats SR. Be fr with your SR arguments jesus.

Moreover, the Ashford theory and Sansa’s suitors don’t have to be perfect analogues of each other. Hell, we know nothing about Lady Ashford except that she’s 13 and involved in a tourney that was disrupted, and that Sansa is 13 and involved in a tourney that will be disrupted. Man, does this girl have to be named Pansa Ptark now for it to be a valid parallel? Why does George even bother naming his books, he should start calling them the war of the roses and be done with it. Why are we even reading political fiction, let’s just open today’s newspaper. Tf.

And I don’t think I can add anything to the Jon - Targaryen suitor theories that hasn’t been proposed + your points too. We consider R + L = J to be true, first and foremost. The “white guardian”, “dark hair” “the Targaryen suitor being dead” etc etc. In the same vein as the argument above, does he need to be named Jonnel/Jonos now to be taken seriously? Well, he is in another parallel but even that is “reaching” so what can I say? 🤷‍♀️ They’re not going to see what they don’t want to see, but, like you said, watching them jump through hoops and perform mental gymnastics and open a whole circus in the process is truly hilarious lol.

You do bring up an excellent argument, anon, that all of Sansa’s previous suitors have been for her claim to the North, so her marriage with Jon might also be for political reasons. However, the slight exception of Joffrey who was a King in his own right (lmao) exists; which again sort of foils Jon and his actual claim to the iron throne. So I feel that while a political marriage is totally on the cards (solves one too many problems for my liking 😤), Sansa might marry him out of love considering her theme of independence and not-marrying-for-claim. But who am I to say 🤷‍♂️

Lastly, nobody crowned Lady Ashford the queen of love and beauty so Sansa isn’t marrying anyone is sort of funny. Well, Loras gave Sansa a red rose amongst all the young maidens present there, are they a foreshadowed endgame pairing now? Also, how does one come up with Sansa is gonna end up as Lady of the Vale by marrying HH and Sansa is going to end up alone in the same breath?

#ashford tourney #sansa stark #jon snow #jonsa #asoiaf #hedge knight #also how are y’all a-ok with Sansa marrying SR but not Jon because eww incest #she’s equally related to both of them #long post #lol #can I ever shut up? #anon asks t

[radicalsansa]

I have theory TB fans are just hardcore dany fans who champion the "i don't why jon chose the Starks over his family??? He was a TARGARYEN!" Take. When he was literally called "the bastard of winterfell" he was an acknowledged (not legitimatized but acknowledged.) bastard of house stark for years. Dany, the last Targaryen and head of her "house" literally told him she didn't acknowledge him, to his face. Like, thats the only way the cognitive dissonance makes sense.

YESS!!! Ofc Jon is going to take the people he was raised by over some random aunt who doesn't give a shit about him (also dad's side which is always a bit iffy)

I've noticed that a lot of TB stans are also targ stans whereas most TG stans do not like the targ family in anyway whatsoever.

How dare I say this but i think even Dany was more politically savvy than Rhaen*ra (I'm only on ACOK qnd I haven't seen GOT) given she actually tried? TB likes to say that the realm would be in better hands with Rhaen*ra on the throne when it's so obvious it wouldn't. Rhaen*ra couldn't give less of a shit about politics given that during her obvious big shot she just fucked off with her groomer uncle and her bastard children.

Obviously, Jon would choose House Stark over House incestuous dragon

#ask #asoiaf #hotd #anti team black #pro team green #jon snow #anti rhaenyra stans #anti rhaenyra targaryen #anti targaryen #anti daemon targaryen #anti targ stans #anti targ restoration #anti daenerys targaryen

[thelustybraavosimaid]

Bro you just killed my Kid Cudi listening sesh for this. How many times are we going to go over this with you people for fuck's sake

Rhaelya stans hate Sansa because...

Let me stop you right there. I am a Rhaelya, a Jonrya, and a Jon stan. I don't think about Sansa unless I'm forced to. My hyperfixation is on certain characters. Sansa isn't on my radar enough for me to hate her. Like Jon, I feel little else but indifference for her.

Sansa being a hostage makes Lyanna...look like she was a hostage...because there are parallels in both their situations.

But it's *not* a parallel, and here's exactly why.

Rhaegar is not like Joffrey.

Rhaegar actually died with Lyanna's name on his lips, as was confirmed in the official World of Ice and Fire App.

He was also described as a "love-struck prince" by the author himself:

At last I was able to ask him the question I had sent for the tombola. I have always been fascinated by how ASOIAF embodies the theories put forward by Acemoglu and Robinson about countries with extractive institutions (which hamper development). So my question was: Why do you think the political institutions in the Seven Kingdoms are so weak? His answer: the Kingdom was unified with dragons, so the Targaryen's[sic] flaw was to create an absolute monarchy highly dependent on them, with the small council not designed to be a real check and balance. So, without dragons it took a sneeze, a wildly incompetent and megalomaniac king, a love struck prince, a brutal civil war, a dissolute king that didn't really know what to do with the throne and then chaos. Interesting answer.

[Source]

Joffrey had no real love for Sansa. He saw her as an object to mistreat and misuse. He had no empathy and a deep lack of consideration for other people. He had her beaten because it gave him momentary gratification, because he was a psychopath. How is this comparable in any way to Lyanna at the tower of joy?

In fact, the whole point of what we are finding out about Rhaegar through Dany's chapters is to prove that Rhaegar is literally not the monster Robert has been making him out to be. That all Robert has said was due of his blind hatred of him and little more. So again, how is Lyanna's experiences in the tower of joy comparable to Sansa being beaten and harmed as a hostage in King's Landing?

How could this be a parallel, and can you back your claim with anything other than headcanons that have no basis in the books?

There is a reason why the tale of the winter rose was told to Jon specifically — because Bael the Bard and the Stark maiden is analogous to Rhaegar and Lyanna.

George says this about romance:

It's interesting, to get back to this issue of romance that you raised earlier. When I was in Spain a few years ago, I had dinner with a woman — a Spanish academic — and a big fan of both science fiction and romance, and she had read a lot of my stuff because people said I was a very romantic writer. And she sort of launched at me and said, "What are you talking about?! You are not a romantic writer, you know. Nobody ever lives happily ever after in your books!"

I was defending it, saying, "Well, but that's a different tradition of romance. I don't — I'm a romantic writer in the tradition of The Great Gatsby and Romeo and Juliet, and, you know, the Beauty and the Beast. These things don't necessarily have happy endings, but aren't the most powerful romances the unfulfilled romances — the romances where people go their separate ways, but they'll always have Paris, like in Casablanca, one of the films I showed here. You know, they go separate at the end, but they'll always have Paris." And she basically said, "No, you're wrong. They have to be happily ever after together for it to be romance, otherwise it's just sad."

[Source—clip starts at around 03:19]

This traditional telling of romance is shown quite clearly with both Bael the Bard with the Winter Rose and Rhaegar with Lyanna. Bael the Bard's tale was briefly happy:

No. They had been in Winterfell all the time, hiding with the dead beneath the castle. The maid loved Bael so dearly she bore him a son, the song says...though if truth be told, all the maids love Bael in them songs he wrote.

But also ended in tragedy:

"The song ends when they find the babe, but there is a darker end to the story. Thirty years later, when Bael was King-beyond-the-Wall and led the free folk south, it was young Lord Stark who met him at the Frozen Ford...and killed him, for Bael would not harm his own son when they met sword to sword."

"So the son slew the father instead," said Jon.

"Aye," she said, "but the gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing. When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael's head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. Her son did not long outlive her. One o' his lords peeled the skin off him and wore him for a cloak." (Jon VI, ACoK)

Rhaegar left to fight in the War of the Usurper, lost and died. Lyanna died giving birth to Jon. And Jon died trying to save "Arya" from Ramsay.

This is what George means by a romantic love story.

And they also love Arya, because...Arya...looks like Lyanna

Or maybe we just like Arya because she's a fantastic character. Idk OP, could be that.

and isn't as hyper feminine as Sansa

This ties in quite well to the misogyny some "fans" of the series have to women like Arya. It's not because Sansa is "hyper feminine" that I don't care for her. I'm just indifferent to her. Femininity has absolutely nothing to do with it. I don't know if you know, but women can and do express themselves in different ways.

therefore her fans think she aligns with Rhaegar

?????????????

because they...hate Sansa and pretend its a love story

That is 100% the way George is taking R+L's story. This is quite literally his preferred telling of a romantic story. One where they share a brief affection for one another despite the eventual consequences, but end up separated, or worse.

Even though the point of Lyanna Stark is that her untold narrative is comparative to both Sansa and Arya

How is Lyanna's narrative comparative to Sansa? The only thing you've given was a non-parallel of being in the Red Keep/tower of joy, but there's nothing to suggest that Lyanna was trapped, beaten, or harmed there.

The king frowned. "A knife, perhaps. A good sharp one, and a bold man to wield it."

Ned did not feign surprise; Robert's hatred of the Targaryens was a madness in him. (Eddard II, AGoT)

--

For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not. (Eddard IX, AGoT)

You do not find it strange that the brother of the woman who was supposedly trapped and imprisoned at the tower of joy has no ill words to say about the man who supposedly committed such heinous crimes?

#asoiaf