crisdlz

[crisdlz]

"But they are rather minor bumps compared to the overall timeline of the franchise and should not be used as a huge factor to discredit the canonicity of a work."

That's so laughably wrong that I nearly collapsed.

Also how does it not make sense for the RTTE writers to try and keep the show consistent to the main lore even if it isn't canon. ANY tie-in work based on an original story, canon/not-canon attempts at some level to be consistent. Given the size/scale and the fact RTTE was backed by the studio, it makes perfect sense they'd try (but fail to) maintain consistency.

In the reddit ama post Dean literally says the scripts are separate. What does this mean? It means that nothing in RTTE has any affect on the events of the films which would include the ways the characters are written and characterized. Something cannot be canon when this is the case. You cannot have characters go through an entire arc, throw the arc away for the next installment of a franchise (chronologically) and claim said arc was canon.

Compilation of interviews from DreamWorks staff, Dean DeBlois and Jay Baruchel on the TV series (ROB, DOB & RTTE) and its canonicity within the HTTYD movieverse

Since I still see some people asking or arguing about this, I’ve decided to look for some interviews across the internet and compile as much as possible in a single post. Bear in mind that some of these are a few years old, with the earliest from 2014. 

Note and Disclaimer: Although I will state my perspective and opinion at the end of the post, I want to highlight that this is not to argue in favour or against anyone who considers it canon or not, but just to provide clarity to those who would like to hear what was actually said by those involved in the making of the franchise. Whether anyone wants to accept the TV series as canon despite what the Dreamworks crew and actors said, it’s entirely up to them. 

Long post ahead so I’m putting it under a “Keep reading” link. This post will also be updated if I find anymore interviews in the future relevant to this topic. 

Unfortunately since Tumblr no longer allows external links to be posted here, I have used redirects instead for the links of the interviews, which cannot be opened with the Tumblr mobile app, so you will need to use a browser to open them. Nevertheless, I have copied in and bold the relevant parts for those who cannot open the links. 

Keep reading

[crisdlz]

The most comprehensive HTTYD fandom survey made! Update from lst year's survey!

https://firebasehostingproxy.page.link/198886819888/forms.gle/FSTZ1WGw7fYfxJAu5

reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/httyd/comments/l2av4g/httyd_franchise_survey_ii/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[crisdlz]

The most comprehensive HTTYD fandom survey made! Update from lst year's survey!

https://firebasehostingproxy.page.link/198886819888/forms.gle/FSTZ1WGw7fYfxJAu5

reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/httyd/comments/l2av4g/httyd_franchise_survey_ii/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

#httyd #hiccup #toothless #httyd fandom #httyd2 #httyd3 #how to train your dragon #httyd thw #dreamworks

[crisdlz]

Not gonna lie, I have similar problems with the third film's ending. I don't think it helped that every dragon left instead of... well, some. It felt kind forced that every dragon, everywhere, went underground, and that goes double for Berk's dragons. Plus, I feel it would have been more emotional to see some dragons stay while others left, and leave Hiccup to try and make the world better while his best friend is away.

Okay okay okay, you have totally opened up a pathway for me to do this (thank you!) so let’s do this.

Why The Dragons Leaving Doesn’t Work (And Why It Does In The Books) In Four Easy Steps For Y’all Under The Cut

Keep reading

[crisdlz]

The relationship of Objectivity and Subjectivity in all forms of media and art.

All art forms have objective components to them: camera quality, sound quality, smoothness, cohesion, continuity, etc.

A movie can be objectively bad, this is why people can agree in a grand majority that something (TLA Movie For example) is bad.

However subjectivity can allow for enjoyment to come out of something regardless of its objective elements.

This is the effect and feelings that the art personally invoked upon you. Maybe you personally really connected with a piece of art, maybe you have background exposure and sentimental feelings towards something, or maybe your suspension of disbelief works differently.

For example, I personally like Shark Tales. It's an objectively bad movie but I enjoy it because of my experience anf reactions to it. I watched it a lot with my sister as a kid, I understood all the references, and the jokes matched my sense of humor. I will agree with objective criticisms people have of the film like how the jokes sre dated references to seem cool or how Oscar gets away with waaay too much at the end, but I still enjoy the movie.

Don't ever knock someone for enjoying a movie and don't ever go into a discussion or a debate to change someone's subjective opinions. Instead, simply try and get the other party to see the objective elements, and to acknowledge them. If they understand, you're job is done, regardless if they still like it or not.

This is how you push for the public to be more critical of future pieces of art and media without making them feel bad about their current likes and dislikes (which can cause people to lash out and be stubborn).

Thank you for joining my TedTalk

(P.S. I wrote this late on my phone so sorry for typos)

#movie critique #art critique #music criticism #writing critique #objectivity #subjectivity #httyd3

[crisdlz]

Alright, let me respond to this.

Toothless wanting to follow the Light Fury isn’t because he loves her more than Hiccup. Not enough people realize that while Toothless has very high intelligence and can even mimic human behavior, he is still an animal. I’m not saying that’s all he is, he has a great personality and character in general, but he still has those same animal instincts that our own pets have.

I see this all the time and my response is pretty consistent. In the series he has been shown to have a greater understanding of emotions and is more intelligent than most humans. He understands symbolism and has never been shown to has such instinctual behaviors before. The mind control in the previous two movies don’t count as examples btw because that isn’t instinct it is a product of their bodies and even so, the whole point of the mind control in the second film was to show that Toothless is capable of going against his instinct and is not bound by it because of his development and relationship established with Hiccup.

Also, he’s been the last of his kind for probably his entire life. If he finally finds a dragon that looks like him after years of thinking he was the only one, of course he’ll be curious of her and want to follow her.

Yeah and he’ll remain the last of his kind for the rest of it.

 He’s not leaving Hiccup behind cause he found a girlfriend, he’s just curious of her and excited about finding another dragon that’s like him. And because the Light Fury doesn’t want Hiccup anywhere near her, he has to fly away by himself to go find her and form a bond with her.

Ok so instead of leaving Hiccup behind cause he found a girlfriend he is leaving Hiccup behind because he wants a girlfriend. Cause that makes a difference?

(As for when Hiccup thought he’d flown away for good, I think he was just super worried about Toothless and it was just making him think he wasn’t coming back, cause later clearly we see Toothless wants to stay with Hiccup during the goodbye scene but can’t because he needs to protect his kind.)

Did we watch the same movie? Astrid (and pretty much the movie through tone and what we see of Toothless) pretty much say that he isn’t coming back and if it wasn’t for Hiccup and Astrid he probably wouldn't have come back (at least for a while). After Toothless saves Astrid and Hiccup and takes them back to New Berk he seems to be generally frustrated and doesn’t even look at Hiccup for a while. He instantly misses THW and doesn’t even consider looking for all the dragons in New Berk that HE WAS IN CHARGE OF. Toothless didn’t care about his nest, he only cared about being with his new thot. In the actual goodbye scene after the Armada battle, Toothless isn’t shown not wanting to leave, he is shown wanting to leave but also waiting for permission to leave so as to not hurt Hiccup’s feelings that much and to give him an easier time in justifying leaving to himself.  Toothless 100% did choose the light fury over Hiccup, you can argue whether he was justified in doing so or if it was instinctual (which I would go against) but at the end of the day Toothless and Hiccup never see each other again after the epilogue at the end of the movie.  Toothless even chooses the light fury over his entire nest because he not only abandoned them when he knew that a war was brewing, but also then allowed for all of them to be caught and caged by known dragon killers just so that the light fury wouldn’t be killed. 

Toothless did not choose the Light Fury over Hiccup

This is an argument I feel like I haven’t gone into too much depth about. I’ve covered the reasons why Toothless didn’t leave Hiccup for Nubless at the end of the film, but I didn’t cover why he left to follow the Light Fury before the armada battle.

Toothless wanting to follow the Light Fury isn’t because he loves her more than Hiccup. Not enough people realize that while Toothless has very high intelligence and can even mimic human behavior, he is still an animal. I’m not saying that’s all he is, he has a great personality and character in general, but he still has those same animal instincts that our own pets have. Of course if he finds a female of his species (or I guess in this case a subspecies) then of course he’s gonna want to become mates with her. It’s how animals are if they haven’t been neutered. (And btw, his relationship with her wasn’t “rushed”, animals in real life don’t go through months and months of getting to know each other like humans usually do, most of the time they dance or do something else to impress potential mates and if they’re impressed, they have babies. It’s not sloppy writing, it’s how nature works.)

Also, he’s been the last of his kind for probably his entire life. If he finally finds a dragon that looks like him after years of thinking he was the only one, of course he’ll be curious of her and want to follow her. (Also, like I said, mating instincts.) He’s not leaving Hiccup behind cause he found a girlfriend, he’s just curious of her and excited about finding another dragon that’s like him. And because the Light Fury doesn’t want Hiccup anywhere near her, he has to fly away by himself to go find her and form a bond with her.

Plus, this was Grimmel’s plan the entire movie, use the Light Fury to “separate the prey from its pack” so he could kill Toothless. (As for when Hiccup thought he’d flown away for good, I think he was just super worried about Toothless and it was just making him think he wasn’t coming back, cause later clearly we see Toothless wants to stay with Hiccup during the goodbye scene but can’t because he needs to protect his kind.)

Thank you for coming to my TED talk

#httyd #httyd3 #httyd thw #nightfury #toothless #light fury #hiccup

[crisdlz]

Agree to disagree on a lot, for the record I still very much like the movie but I just didn't buy the ending.

Also I accidentally said domesticated instead of saying something akin to the concept of a domesticated animal. Lack for a better word and typing quickly on my phone issue right there.

So someone answered to my Analysis Of Why The Dragons Had To Leave Berk with cool counter-arguments

The lovely @crisdlz actually took the time to write a full counter-analysis uncovering the potential weak points of my work. I am super glad they did, because this provides me with feedback I can work with, and it allows me to see someone else’s perspective on Httyd3. After all, every analysis I write is clouded by my own judgement. Though I do try to support it with infallible arguments, even I can’t make everything work logically and still apply to everybody’s emotional satisfaction. So let’s take a look at what crisdlz said. 

Please note that I do not want to start a debate here. I am going to answer to these points this once because someone made the effort of replying properly to my analysis. After that, everyone can think what they want. No one has to agree with me, or with crisdlz. This is just our attempt to express why Httyd3 may or may not have worked for some people, and it is supposed to help those who have difficulties finding words for what they feel :) Let’s go!

Side Note: You can find my full original analysis here: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3. Crisdlz’ full reply can be found here. 

Second Side Note: *sigh* this is super long. I’m sorry. But it’s good content I believe. So if you’d do me the honor of reading everything, I’d be absolutely flattered!

Keep reading

[crisdlz]

1) You cannot use the books to justify as they are different in so maby reasons. The dragons leaving in itself was done over a period of several decades with the dragons basically leaving by themselves (because Hiccup never made the final decision telling them to) heck, Toothless actually never technically left in the books (or, well, during the books).

2) This is like saying that modern armies are less dangerous and more vulnerable because we depend on technology. I would also like to point out the blatant fact that the warriors (Hiccup being the most obvious) gained additional combat skills through Serpent's Heir and even in HTTYD3!

3) Berk wasn't overcrowded post relocation and could be easily foxed with some regulation.

4) First of all, the population of dragons of Berk is not the complete dragon population. That would be ridiculous to disagree with. Second of all, yeah sure there are a large amount of dragons there, which means it's the most fortified island in the archipelago (not even mentioning how overpowered of a defensive geographical area New Berk is {although unrealistic}).

5) The amount of opponents for any nation never ends, but a nation can become so powerful that eventually the threats are no longer credible orthat dangerous (Ex: the real world United States).

6) Grimmel died at the end of httyd3. Also he wasn't the only threat nor the biggest threat but that never stopped them in the past.

7) You neither know what Hiccup's ideal version of a relationship is or how he spent his days off so this point is mute.

8) Um, I'm pretty sure Hiccup had a pretty significant moment of grieving and coming to terms with Stoick's death. It's a small scene called "Stoick's Ship," you might be familiar with it.

9) Hiccup could go anywhere he said wanted without Toothless so this argument should only apply to Toothless. With Toothless, he could go most anywhere he wanted and could order any dragon to help him or bring him anything. And no, it wasn't "becoming a burden" it suddenly turned into a burden and only innthe sense of chasing the LF

10) This sends such a poor message to everyone. Toothless saw a female and immediately dropped all alpha duties and left his home. And then didn't even come back. He fully abandoned his nest at Berk. He didn't consider any of the consequences of his actions abd acted on a whim and left everyone else to deal with a life or death situation. It also plays on the ridiculous social norm thatone should spend more time with a partner than family and friends. Both are equally important and an equal amount of time for all is necessary for a healthy life. And any one of the parties that force the other to disregard other loved one and duties is defined as a toxic and controlling partner. Not to mention that the lf seems to be the only "smart" dragon that for skme reason cannot trust humans despite seeing them to good things (until the plot required her to).

11) Ok, I've seen people call the treatment of the dragons as a pet many times so I'll say it again. The dragons were not pets. They may have been seen as pets by some of the townspeople with some lesser intelligence dragons but at the very least to the main characters they were not pets. I don't care what Hiccup says at the end of httyd1 because that was said in a joking, not-to-be-taken-seriously analogy. Saying that Toothless was being turned into a pet is ridiculous and ignores his character in the previous installments of the franchise. Was toothless domesticated? Sure but what's wrong with that? He was able to enter a society of peace and friendship and therefore had no more need to do animalistic things. Furthermore itbwas long established that dragons are not common animals. They have the potential to have human thoughts and comprehend emotion and symbolism just as well (and lots of cases as can be seen in the series and real life even better) than humans. No other animal would intentionally cripple themselves for the sake of symbolism. Comparing Valka's development to Toothless is so... bad because the situations are so different. Valka joined the dragons on really bad terms while Toothless chose to join the humans on really good terms.

12) The people of Berk were hesitant about THW because they didn't think it existed, not because they were unsure of them being allowed there.

13) Toothless as the alpha could've easily said "yo guys, these peeps are cool, don't kill them"

14) One of the main issues of the movie wqs the fact that hiccup thought that he had to do everything on his own because that's how Stoick did it. Hiccup throughout the series has depended more on the encouragement of Astrid and Valka in order to not give up. Toothless has never made Hiccup do anything. The only thing that Hiccup has depended on toothless is some fighting and transportation (which any other dragon could replace). Hiccup realized who he was in httyd2, that was the whole point of that movie.

15) Throughout the entire movie Toothless acts irresponsibly towards his nest. He abandoned them, risked their lives, allowed them to be captured, took them from their homes, and introduced them to another area. All for a female he wanted to poke. Meanwhile Hiccup wanted to maintain interspecies peace, maintain the economic flourishing tht came from Dragons, keep these families that have developed in tact, and overall do everything for his people. After the dragons left he was left without any protection and little transportation in a new area. Everything that happened at the end was counterproductive.

Counterproductive actually is the perfect word to describe a lot of the movie's ending. Toothless' character development, dragon interpretation, Hiccup's development, Berk's decisions.

In the end in THW Grimmel won. His 2 main goals were to get rid of all dragons in ending any dragon-human relationships and to specifically cause the extinction of all night furies. After toothless dies, all night furies will be dead and now the dragons all won. The second part however was completely done by Berk and the dragons themselves. That's right, the protagonists helped finish the antagonist's goal

Counterproductive

The third movie's understanding of the characters, the themes, and the conflicts tend to defend themselves with a part of the franchise but ignore other parts. For example: Hiccup not being able to be in a single fight without toothless in HTTYD2 but then kicking ass in Serpent's Heir. Oh and btw Race to the Edge isn't canon so it can't be used to justify anything in HTTYD2.

P.S. Sorry about any typos, wrote this on my phone.

Analysis Of Why The Dragons Had To Leave Berk (Part 3/3)

Because apparently a whole lot of people haven’t found peace about this yet and I’d like them to see what I can see :)

Let’s jump right in, friends :)

I am going to look at three aspects of this:

a) The context of Httyd in the book!verse and the real, historical world

b) Dean’s 15 reasons why the dragons had to leave

c) And finally, why not everything makes sense to everyone and how the way it made sense to me personally may help you to make it work for yourself. Yep. I just put the yep there because I can. And because this is the part of my analysis that I look most forward to :D

Quick note: If you find it too long to read everything, just read the sentences I highlighted in bold. Of course I would appreciate it though if you read the whole thing :) Have fun!

Moving on to the final aspect c) WHY THE OVERALL EXPLANATION DOESN’T SATISFY SOME OF US.

Quick note: I didn’t highlight anything in bold here, because I deem it important here that you read the whole thing.

c1) I dare to say that every single reason Dean gave us is solid and can stand on its own. This is because all of them are already imminent to the narrative of Httyd3 without Dean ever putting them there. He didn’t have to invent reasons - they were all logical conclusions to what had happened before in the Httyd universe, and that’s why they are so strong. It’s just that he included so many of them in the movie that each of them only received a tiny moment of emotional weight throughout the story. Those emotional moments were precious, and they worked. But the enumeration of a total of fifteen different reasons queued up ceaselessly after another makes Dean seem a little…desperate. As if he had to scrape for solid explanations, trying his best to give us fans the most worthy ending he could come up with, and struggling to squeeze even the tiniest details in there if they only enhanced the meaning and the well-foundedness and the plausibility of his story for us. I’m going to repeat this: All of the ideas were already embedded within the heart of Httyd, specifically within Hiccup’s personality, and so Dean was able to build on them. He didn’t have to grab for something far-fetched at all. It’s just that his reasons didn’t get enough screentime individually, and the audience can feel it. Subconsciously while watching the movie, and definitely consciously after thinking about it for a bit.

Some people stop here and are disappointed. But I can feel something more. What I definitely also feel while watching the movie is Dean’s love for his storyline. With all its individual reasons. He loves what he created; yes, the whole experience. He wanted to give us fans something solid so we would not only like it, but fall in love with it ourselves and therefore perfectly understand why he chose the narrative to end the way it ended. Dean wasn’t desperate. He gave it his all for us who had been sticking around these stories for almost a decade. All of the creators loved their wondrous job, and it really shows in every single minute I see on screen. And I have chosen to see and remember the deep joy and the love that went into these efforts to make everything as perfect as possible for us fans. Yep. I see the flaw is there because of love, and because it is only a small flaw - the reasons worked emotionally, after all - I see the love more than the flaw, and am therefore super satisfied with Httyd3.

c2) Toothless’ character growth was visible on screen, and Hiccup’s wasn’t. Let me explain this. What Toothless learned in Httyd3 was how to return to actual dragon behavior. A major part of this included impressing his girlfriend. Now, all of this is something we visibly see on screen. We witness him wiggle, and dance, and upset her, and win her over, in a very tangible way. Now, do you remember what Hiccup’s arc was? That’s right. Becoming his own person. It’s not something we see him actively do on screen, but it happens between the lines instead, which is very different. The only visible praise he receives as a sign that he actually completed his arc is Astrid nodding her Yes to him on their wedding day. Everything else regarding Hiccup is invisible. Talk at best, failure at worst. No wonder some of us don’t like the Light Fury in the slightest! Because we pin on her Toothless’ “easy” success while Hiccup seemingly “loses”. But Hiccup doesn’t lose. He just gains something much harder to obtain, which is independence from his best friend. And while the Light Fury helps Toothless to achieve the same thing, she clearly helps him by physically pulling and drawing him towards the Hidden World. Astrid though? Who is supposed to help Hiccup? She continues to inspire him, but she lets him figure it out on his own. She doesn’t pull Hiccup to a decision he hesitates to make for himself. So it’s hard for an audience to distinguish between Hiccup’s character growth and Toothless’ character growth and to see that the Light Fury wasn’t the “excuse for Toothless leaving Hiccup”. Point done.  

c3) Dean’s so-called “sum of all reasons”, reason b15), is a reason far more mature than what most of the audience’s lives can take right now. Hiccup and Toothless’ separation is ultimately based on the fact that they need to prioritize the well-being of their tribes over their personal friendship right now. And that is a decision of a certain material which most of the movie’s audience will not yet have aquired in their own lives: It’s the decision of a politician, of an army general, of a boss. It’s a CEO decision. When many of us in the fandom are so young that we have barely made it out of school. We identify with Hiccup and Toothless because “yay, best buddy”. We still identify with the loss of a family member, and a broader circle of friends like the Gang because “yay, we’re having a good time and we are somewhat important to one another”. We all know the decisions that need to be made for family, friends, and eventually spouses, and therefore we are able to identify with Hiccup and Toothless to some point. But the point where they become Chiefs of two kingdoms surpasses everything we’ve ever known so far. We are an audience too young to fully understand the concept of true leadership. Probably none of us has ever had the responsibility over a thousand people or more before, and that’s why you may have a hard time to support Hiccup and Toothless’ final decision. Because you can’t know that leaders have to make different choices than followers, because you have never experienced yourself what it’s like to enter a situation where a choice like that is required. I count myself among these clueless people. All I’m seeing is “Hiccup and Toothless’ friendship” when what they’re actually doing on screen is executive leadership over thousands. What I think is cool though here, is that their story can inspire us to take influence on people in real life like them. To grow into people who actually change the world by their actions. Httyd3 has given us a small taste of how it feels to be a real leader, and now each of us can decide for themselves whether they could see themselves in a position like that or not. Which helps us to identify what our goals in life are, and what it is going to take for us to get where we want to be :) It also shows that Dean believes we are a generation who can change things at a young age. #fridays for future  - Which is a beautiful thing.

c4) The particular reason that works for my soul to be satisfied with Httyd3 isn’t actually the “sum of all reasons” like Dean presented it to be. To me b15) is just one reason among the others. What made sense to me was rather an altered, expanded version of b6), or maybe even a 16th reason: That all of what Hiccup was doing, and all that Toothless was doing, and the positions they found themselves in combined with the circumstances that happened to rain down on them was just wayyy too much to cope with altogether. I look at all of Httyd3 and go like  “it must be OVERWHELMING to them”.

The way I see it, they both needed time for themselves to grow into strong, independent Chiefs who held their lives firmly together before they could form a human-dragon alliance again. If you need more expansion on this…ahh nahhh, I’m just going to copy + paste it in here, because I’ve talked about this before. And honestly it’s the only valid reason I need.

So what do YOU need, friend? If something bugs you about Httyd3, I’ve just given you 15 very good reasons as to why it was better for the dragons to leave than to stay. My 16th reason is even a story of pure victory! I know that every head thinks with a different kind of logic, but I hope one of these points totally applies to your logic! So pick your share and be inspired and hopefully, you can now find your peace with the ending of the trilogy and enjoy it as much as I do :)

Cheers

Reddie

Read Part 1 | Part 2 

@howtodrawyourdragon @corona-the-nightcutter

#httyd 3 criticism

[crisdlz]

Drake meme but HTTYD3 format cheaply made because why not?

#httyd #hiccup #httyd3 #httyd fandom #drake meme #meme template

[crisdlz]

Hiccup's reaction to Astrid's new look.

#hiccup #hiccstrid #astrid #hiccup haddock #astrid hofferson #httyd3

[crisdlz]

50% Shieldmaiden 50% Dragon Rider 100% Warrior

#astrid #astrid hofferson #httyd fandom #httyd3 #stormfly

[crisdlz]

Chief of Berk

#httyd fanart #httyd edit #httyd #httyd3 #hiccup #hiccupchief #berk

[crisdlz]

HICCSTRID HTTYD3 EDIT

#hiccstrid #httyd fanart #httyd3 #hiccup #astrid #httyd3image #httyd2

[crisdlz]

Time for Childhood for you 90s/Early 2000s kids

[crisdlz]

My favorite screenshots from the series

#httyd1 #httyd2 #rtte #httyd screencaps #screenshot #derp #hiccup #astrid #eret son of eret #valka #razorwhip

[crisdlz]

…you’re lucky I’m a stubborn asshole because these took way longer to make than I’d like to admit.

[crisdlz]

Toothless's brother confirmed for UW

Whoops. (An IHHS April Fool’s Oneshot)

This oneshot was originally going to be an April Fool’s joke based on the above image, but I guess I just never got around to posting it! Check it out after the break! :D

Keep reading