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luanrabelo123 · 1 year

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Asgore's and Toriel's points.

I don't think Toriel is horrible, she is a very caring person, she likes jokes, talking, interacting with people, and protecting children…

Only problem with her, is that she firmly follows her morality, as if her morality actually applies to other people, and she thinks that everyone deserves second chances or that humans can change. Something I disagree with.

I really don't know how she prefers to be neutral and not be with her own race, I mean… what's the point of that, humans have done so much cruelty to monsters. They imprisoned the monsters without a justified reason, the only reason the humans sealed the monsters was because of the monsters' ability to absorb a human soul and have immeasurable power. This caused the war between them to happen and then the monsters to be trapped underground, sealed by the barriers that the humans had made.

I really don't understand how she can think that humans really deserve to be forgiven or something like that, it doesn't make sense… humans killed thousands of monsters in the war, thousands of monster children who had families and friends died…

Not only that, after they had a child, and after a few years, the humans had once again killed another monster, and not just any monster, it was their own child… and guess what? Toriel still decided to stay neutral and just run away from everything, as if that would do any good.

Wow, to go out and take care of the race that made the monsters' lives a living hell. She must really like her own race suffering and dying, and not only that, she still prefers that they come up with another solution that doesn't involve murdering 7 "innocent" children.

Do you have any idea how selfish and stupid that sounds, she would rather they suffer and try to find a solution, if there really is another solution, than to kill 7 humans and use their souls to break the barrier… that's so stupid.

Destroying something that the humans themselves created… and I know that these children are not to blame for any of this, but even so, it is unthinkable that the humans did it, there is no way to trust them after what they did… and Toriel would still rather stay neutral than stay with their own race.

She would rather stay neutral than stay with her own race, the race that was not at all to blame and did not even deserve to be imprisoned, they were only imprisoned for the actions of the humans, stupid actions, actions that should not be forgiven…

Toriel is just one of those people who thinks that everything can be solved without killing or something, and that's not how it works. She clearly abandoned all her people, she thinks that everyone who is on Asgore's side, they are compared to the levels of the humans who imprisoned the monsters underground? The question is how is that possible? That is so pathetic.

You can literally kill the first Froggit in front of her, and guess what? She doesn't even care that she saw a human killing her own race….

Toriel thinks that all monsters really wanted to do this and want to exterminate humans without justification, but we know that this is not what they wanted, they would rather live in peace with humans, but how will they trust humans? After all they have done to them? Tell me how?

And what is the possibility of starting another war, considering the idea that there is a solution to break the barrier without having to kill anyone? What are the chances of another war caused by humans themselves?

The morality of people cannot be above the reality, it doesn't matter if you do the wrong thing or not, sometimes what is wrong is necessary, especially if it is necessary to do it.

Asgore at least was doing something, he himself has his own moralities, but he has to put these aside, so that he can fulfill his duty as king and save his people.

And don't think that Asgore would destroy all humanity, he really couldn't stand to have blood on his hands anymore, he didn't even want to hurt anyone, you could see that he couldn't stand it anymore, even if it was necessary and there were reasons for what he did.

Knowing that very well he of all monsters, he really never wanted to have done that, being realistic and facing his own morals and moving past them is necessary when there really are no other options.

Asgore, he only wanted to save his own people from a race that has already done so much suffering and death…

Asgore is definitely not a bad person, he just had to do what was necessary for his people, his friends and even the last member of his "family"…

I really feel sorry for Asgore, because even if he was doing the only option and the fastest way to free the monsters from the prison the humans themselves made, he himself didn't get the ending he deserved.

And yet the fans rate him as a killer and always take Toriel's side, as if she didn't make a lot of mistakes.

She preferred to leave her own husband and her people to a race that didn't even deserve to live in the same world as monsters, monsters are definitely better people than humans.

And even if they ended up corrupting themselves, it was humanity's own fault and not theirs.

Can you imagine living for several years in a hell like the underground? Can you imagine that the queen prefers all of them to continue suffering there? She wants them to pretend that everyone is happy in that hellish place? Where everyone is suffering and even dying? After all… if a monster has no hope, he ends up dying little by little…

I really feel sorry for Asgore, he really was only doing what was necessary to see everyone happy, and yet people don't give him the value he deserves, and can't even think what he went through and what he needed to do to try to make everyone happy, even if it broke him and his own morality…

Asgore at least didn't run away and act as a king and someone who needed to act as the strongest monster for his own people, to give them the hope they deserve and need, otherwise, everyone would just keep suffering and end up going extinct…

Something really horrible to imagine, right? Can you imagine all the monsters dying and people still siding with the humans of Undertale? As if they were really the "good guys" in the story, when in fact they are the plagues themselves.

Asgore is definitely a better character and a better person than Toriel, but Toriel is not a bad person either, she was someone who preferred to run away from everything, her husband and choose her morality than "thousands" of beings who are the real innocents in the story.

#undertale #deltarune #toriel #asgore #asgore dreemurr #toriel dreemurr #monsters

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luanrabelo123 · 1 year

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Asgore, the most tragic character in Undertale.

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Asgore, wow… needless to say, this guy for sure is one of the most complex and "difficult" characters to be forgiven by people who do not support killing children or any other person, even though even these people were not that innocent… some people prefer to ignore the fact that they are not as innocent as people think. All the children in Undertale were not bad people, but some of them had peculiar weapons and some curious descriptions, showing that those weapons could be quite dangerous or another one that had dust, meaning that it could be on account of a monster or just dirt.

But that doesn't matter, after all… these kids would have to kill Asgore before they could actually get out of the underground. Something Toriel probably didn't tell any of them… wow, you'd have to take a person's life to get out and she didn't even warn about it… maybe she herself didn't fully trust the humans or just didn't want them to hurt her ex-husband. But still, it was important information... because you would still have to take a life to get out of there, the life of a king. Where the monsters depend on him, of a leader strong enough to have to sacrifice and break his own morality.

We all know that Asgore never really wanted to kill those children or hurt anyone else, or even declare a war against humanity… he only did it for the sake of his people and also made that statement out of anger, after all …. the humans had once again taken everything from them… imprisoned the monsters and even killed their two children on the same day, even though they killed Asriel because they thought Asriel had done it to Chara, but it doesn't really matter.

What really matters is that the humans imprisoned the monsters without really a justified reason, just fear of the monsters having the ability to absorb human souls and have immeasurable power. They made them suffer, took lives and hopes from the monsters just out of fear and also to benefit themselves.

Asgore, as king, he had duties and would have to make a decision he would never have made, but he had to do it for the good of his species which were most likely already on the verge of extinction and also for them to have a real life, not just a life that they depended on hope for in order to survive.

Asgore had to take the hardest decision for him, to hurt and kill people, just because of his responsibility and his duty as king.

I know that he made several mistakes, like pressuring Chara to be a hope between humans and monsters, I know that this was not Asgore's intention, to be pressuring Chara and not even for him to be pressured to free the monsters, but in Chara's head, he probably thought of doing whatever it takes to free the monsters, without fear of consequences or choice.

He ended up pressuring his own son, even though this was not really his intention, but he ended up making this mistake and he didn't even notice, but we can't blame him.

He just wanted to make his people really have a life and be freed soon from that hell... have you ever imagined having a responsibility of an entire race, a race that is almost going extinct, losing family members, children, families, friends...?

And yet, people always prefer to put the 6 children in the middle. I know they are not to blame, and neither are the monsters, but there are 7 souls for an entire race, a race that has suffered for the actions of humans themselves.

A race that didn't even deserve to be there and much less go through all of this... and yet, they are still good people and manage to always try to be strong, even in difficult moments, even if they have lost so many people... even if they have already lost hope little by little...

I know that Asgore also did wrong to give false hope to the monsters, but we can't forget that he was already really destroyed inside and was thinking a lot about his own actions and choices... which made him declare that war out of anger and his own people.

He really didn't want to do any of that, he just wanted to see his own people and species happy, don't you think that is a justified motive? That's seven human souls for an entire race...

Don't you think he also deserves forgiveness? Would you rather he suffered again and again? Since... he is still suffering, having regrets and misses his own family...?

Don't you think he did the right thing? You would surely do the same thing for an entire race, take 7 lives for an entire race.

I know that too, you can justify that he would destroy humanity... but do you really think he could do that in the situation that he was in? When did we meet him? I don't think so, he himself said that he couldn't take it anymore? to see so much pain, so much suffering, so many deaths...?

Unnecessary deaths caused by the actions and choices of humanity.

Asgore will never be a bad person, much less someone considered as a "monster" or something like that. He will always be known as a king who had to make necessary choices for his own people and species.

Even if it broke him inside and his own morality, his own goodness... and even if he had to be "selfish" by taking 7 human lives to free his people...

He will definitely always be the best king of all time among the games. No matter what the community or fandom thinks, the people who really understand his side, would never really be on Toriel's side.

A queen who fled only out of fear, weakness and her own morality.

She chose to follow her own morality and her feelings for an entire species. She could have stopped Asgore from starting a war, but she just chose to run away and abandon her own husband, her own people, and her own species... even though humans have already done that and don't even have justified motives, unlike Asgore.

I am not saying that she would have to face her own husband or fight with him, just a dialogue would be enough... Asgore really loves her, and for sure she could have avoided it with him, but she just decided to run away.

She has even more flaws than him, and yet she prefers to judge him for all her actions, as if she was right and had never made these mistakes she made, just putting everything above Asgore, putting more and more weight on him... and saying that he is really a heartless monster...

Asgore is a flawed person just like all of us, but he will never be considered a cold-blooded killer or a killer who likes to kill people.

And yet… he can still see the goodness in people, feel hope, not even really hate humans... even though they have done all this to his species, his people, his family and friends…

Wow, this guy is really amazing… and someone extremely kind who deserves love and care.

#asgore #asgore dreemurr #undertale #deltarune #Youtube

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luanrabelo123 · 1 year

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For years, Asgore has been the subject to some of the worst discourse and bad faith criticism of the Undertale cast. People often boil him down to his crimes without considering the nuance of his character, his regrets, and how he himself despises himself and his mistakes. This video seeks to give a proper analysis to Asgore, the good and the bad, and hopefully shed some light on facets of him that are often overlooked without resorting to the tried and to Toriel bashing that often results from these discussions.

Plus I go into his role in Deltarune and his concept art/development, too. :)

Reblogs are super appreciated! I worked very hard on this and would love to see it get out there.

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luanrabelo123 · 1 year

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Undertale and Deltarune theories…

I'm not going to lie, this whole Deltarune thing in the city in the world of light has something so strange about it... the monsters and that place seems to have something so negative and at the same time something mysterious about this small town... I'm not talking about that secret door, for some reason people might think there is a barrier there, but it really wouldn't make sense, because... the monsters wouldn't leave such an easy place and anyone has access to get there, without any problem and not even having guards around the place... if it was really a barrier, where the monsters apparently could have trapped the humans there, but it's something that doesn't make sense (from the facts I say above).

And also I don't think there is anything special about this door, there could only be something special about this place thanks to Kris because he has the ability to create a world of darkness, where probably Gaster could be there or else he will just leave the whole world in darkness and finally the "Roarning" will appear.

No, I don't think this door will involve either Gaster or Dess, because Dess would probably already be dead, considering that they also need food to survive in this universe. And even if it is the same as the Undertale universe, where the monsters need to have hope and everything else so that they can stay alive.

The only way Dess could have survived, she could have gotten enough determination to create a new fountain and gotten into some fountain, or something other than a fountain like in the other chapters, maybe from a different dimension or some other dimension that might be connected to Gaster? Or would she have actually been able to survive in some other way, but I don't know if she would have been able to open such a source, since it would probably be out of reach of Kris and the others? It would be something quite convienent if they somehow they found the exact dark fountain that she opened.

Another way, possibly Kris opened a fountain before all this and she ended up in this fountain somehow? I don't know… it could have been someone else who saved or kidnapped Dess somehow…

In this universe, all beings have determination, just like Undertale... even Asgore has a bit of determination and he can kind of reminisce a bit about the lines where you end up dying for him, you the player... you can quote this dialogue (after pressing the "act" button and pressing "talk").

Don't you think this is kind of interesting? I mean, was all that determination to fight Asriel just yours? I don't think so. Because Undyne somehow managed to gather several types of determination from other monsters, which ended up helping her... gathering the determination and hope of all to stop that "human".

Now I wonder, does determination really depend on how determined to do that? Because all the monsters already had little hope, they were not determined enough to stop the player, the player's determination gets stronger every time he is determined to do that, even if it is a good or bad action... How determined they are also affects them in some way, so much that they get more hope and determination after seeing the player's action on the pacifist route and they have more hope than on the genocidal route, and joining the players' determination with the monsters' determination, which probably wasn't as high, but it was something much more considerable than on the genocidal route, since they saw more hope in you...

It's really kind of intriguing, at the same time sad... to think that all the monsters didn't have so much determination to live anymore, as a good number of them or most of them, they didn't have so much determination anymore... especially Asgore, the only determination and hope Asgore had was only in his old family and freeing his people, other than that... he didn't see hope in himself anymore, which is something really sad...

And another curious fact, is that you kind of manage to survive Asriel's attack, maybe it could be because of the hope and the determination of the monsters? Possibly.

And besides... Asriel was only able to break the barrier because the souls of the monsters allowed him to break the barrier, using various determination and hope of himself and the monsters and also the determination of the other 6 human souls. He really didn't have 100% of the ability to use the determination and hope (and possibly not even all of his united powers of the monsters and the 6 human souls) without their full permission, stealing their souls is not giving access, it was literally the same thing that happened when he tried to use the human souls and the humans didn't give him permission to do that.

The point is: The more determined you are, the more things you can do thanks to your determination.

In Deltarune the main characters have enough determination to be able to create a new fountain just like Kris, after all... there is nothing that really affects their determination in that. Unlike Undertale, where the main characters really don't have that much determination compared to the player, they all have problems there and everything, which probably can't make them access this power, it's not something really unique to the player, it belongs to everyone. You just have the stronger determination because you are really determined to do that, more than another monster...

The proof of this is Sans, even if you die to him thousands of times, whether you give up or not doesn't really matter. If you are really determined to kill him, you will eventually succeed, and if you succeeded, it was because your determination was stronger than his, because you didn't give up on defeating him, if you weren't really determined to do that, you wouldn't succeed and would just give up. The game doesn't really matter if you're not really determined to do it. The determination that the "game" shows you or doesn't show you, that determination is yours. And if you did it was because of your ability and really determined to do that, even if you were not interested in doing that or didn't really care that much about that, you still did it and you did it, because? if you really didn't want to do that thing, you would just really quit the game and quit or reset and do things the different way? you had a reason, right? to find out the story? to know what the character would have done if you had done that? or you just did it without any reason? without any curiosity or desire? Well... it doesn't really matter, you still wanted to do it, that's reason enough for you to have more determination than the person you're fighting or helping...

#undertale #deltarune #monsters #humans #gaster #asriel #dess #souls

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luanrabelo123 · 1 year

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Anyone who has ever said or implied in their Undertale fanworks that Toriel was not deeply in love with Asgore before their children died and/or denied that he was a major part of her life and someone she cared about is a fucking coward and i am fully willing to burn the non-existent bridge with anyone who has had that take in the last 6 years.

The game makes it explicitly clear they were obnoxiously in love before, there’s hints she still cares about him/was trying to make up for his absence. To remove this context ruins the entire point of the backstory of the Dreemurr family by making the tragedy less so. The POINT is that they were a happy, loving family before the kids died and grief made Asgore declare war. If you write a post-pacifist story where Toriel doesn’t, truly does not care about Asgore, you are making her less interesting and more harsh. If you write a pre-game backstory where actually, she never liked him, usually accompanied by some sort of character defamation of him where he is abusive, a willing and careless companion in an arrangement, or preemptively a sort of foolish simp who loves her even though she doesn’t love him back, then you are ignoring the set up of their tragic backstory and just making both of them worse characters.

Let them have been a happy married couple! Jesus fucking christ I don’t even care if you don’t make them get back together, but it just irritates me to no end when people find a happily married m/f couple too boring or something and then decide to ruin it and be like “they broke up because they never liked each other! Toriel actually fully 100% hates Asgore’s guts afterward!” Like god damnit shut up! Is the concept of a complex relationship where they could both be in love beforehand and then be pulled apart because of their grief and then later on struggle to decipher their feelings… too interesting for you?? Is it really that much more appealing to have Toriel either treat Asgore like shit for being bad or be like, traumatized by him? Like come on! There’s so much MORE you can do by making their relationship more tragic than bad!

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luanrabelo123 · 1 year

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Undertale/Deltarune, the Dreemurr family? (Sorry, I'm terrible at naming titles or anything...)

1. The way the monsters lived because of the humans:

I don't understand your point with this about Toriel's actions being fair, being that it wasn't, this considering the circumstances they were underground, it wasn't like their lives were happy or anything from the beginning, they were just trying to forget about that thing about the war and trying to survive (since they need hope to survive) and get on with life with the best of the circumstances they were in, even with the possibility of them being free again at some point in their lives.

And then finally Asriel was born, after his birth and a few years later, he ended up finding Chara who had fallen from underground, and then he was adopted by the Dreemurr family.

He was adopted son of Toriel and Asgore, and adopted brother of Asriel. After so many years... they finally saw a new hope, a human and a monster living together again... all monsters saw a new possibility that they could live in harmony with monsters.

But you know, things will never be like that, there are good and bad people, and considering the actions of the humans, they were not the best people to live together with, Chara was just an exception to the exception, after all he was a human who was still a child and was raised by the monsters, probably after he found out that humans were a plague and that they were even unkind.

He began to hate his own race, after all... his race imprisoned the monsters, did that to the race that saved him and gave him a home and a new family. They gave him everything in their power... love, affection, friends and everything of the best possible so that he could at least have a better life, now that he was with all of them, literally in the same boats. The humans made the monsters suffer, imprisoning them for fear of the monsters' ability to steal their souls and have immeasurable power. (Some monsters will have power one more than another, some monsters may be stronger and others weaker, even with a human soul)

2. After the death of Chara and Asriel + Asgore's declaration of war:

Well, as we know very well, Asriel and Chara were killed after an attempted plan by Chara that didn't work out very well, and his last request, was that Asriel take him to the village he lived in before, leaving him in the golden flowers... . and obviously Asriel accepted Chara's wish, watching his soul and his body, after the humans saw Asriel holding Chara's body, they thought that Asriel had done that to that child, so they started attacking Asriel, attacking to kill, without even asking what happened, which probably they had some awareness about the monsters... or they just attacked without even knowing what he really was. And then the tragic happened, Chara and Asriel died on the same day. Asriel could even kill countless humans there, but I imagine that not all of them, even with a human soul, I doubt very much that Asriel would be able to destroy all those people, even if they were just villages, something that was probably like that at the time (instead of cities), even so Asriel was very kind and didn't want to kill the humans or hurt the image of the monsters. He was a kind being just like Asgore.

After their deaths, once again the humans destroyed everything that the monsters had at that time, the hope of the monsters being free and living in harmony with the humans. Asgore at this moment, a moment of anger something really fair, declared war against the humans, something the humans had done well before them, and for something much more unfair. And... once again the humans had destroyed everything the monsters had at the moment, destroyed their hopes and a possibility of peace with humanity.

Toriel, with all of this... felt disgust at Asriel's actions, to have declared war against the humans, being that obviously... they had started it all before and that twice (even if the humans didn't know it was happening the second time). She abandoned her responsibilities, her people, and still put all her mistakes and blame on her husband, something Asgore never really did with her, even though she left her whole kingdom and her responsibilities as queen and wife. Her husband she left for something so imbecilic and unfair in the circumstances they were in. It was one race or another in those days.

My opinion: Toriel was the badass of the whole story.

After her husband's declaration of war and her children died, I think she didn't handle that situation well, running away from her responsibilities as a wife and queen.

She abandoned all her people and gave up everything she had built with that man she considered as "husband", "dear", etc.

The point I don't understand, is the reason for this, she felt disgusted by the declaration of war? Because she partially agrees with taking 7 human souls to free the monsters. If she really didn't agree with this, she wouldn't have called him a "coward" because of this, but for declaring war, so much that she said that if he really wanted to free the humans, he would have taken the first human soul and taken 6 more on the surface.

Something that would just make another war, I really don't understand her point. Did she want him to just take the 7 human souls and free his people, without a declaration of war? what is her point? or was she still hoping that the monsters and humans would live in harmony? did she create this in her head after seeing her children see each other as best friends, brothers and sisters and as a family? what is her point? Even if it was something like this, none of these points would be justified for such actions of hers, even more so calling someone a "coward" after running away from everything, she has no right.

She is the coward and hypocrite of the story. Asgore at least knows how to accept her mistakes and deal with them, without having to put the blame, mistakes and problems on other people. And honestly...Asgore was not wrong in declaring war on the humans, the humans have already made them suffer too much and still did they for all that underground stuff. Asgore's only mistake was giving false hope to his people, but I don't blame him totally for that, after all... he was the most broken monster of all, as people said.... " the fallen king", "the broken king", etc. He really doesn't want to do that, he can't even look at you and still misses some proprospect attacks, because he thinks he doesn't deserve mischief, and still holds back from killing you, and even letting you stay with 1 hp so that there is a chance for you to heal and even kill him.

He couldn't go back on his decisions as king, he would have to deal with this mistake he made after giving false hope. Something that Toriel couldn't even criticize or quote, since she just ran away from everything? isn't that right Toriel?

I really don't understand the Undertale fandom. You just like to be fooled and live in a world where people don't make mistakes? what is your purpose in all of this? you don't have good sense or can't compare the situations they were in? you just prefer to call him a "child killer". Since probably none of the children or only one could get to him, most of them were killed by the other monsters, maybe only one got close to him or none at all. Although, he has a certain guilt for these murders, since it was a new law, no humans underground.

Asgore had no choice, and in the circumstances that the monsters found themselves, he had to do something, it was his duty as king, he couldn't stop just because of his wife.

Her morality is not above all things, and her morality is not being used in the right way, and she was considered the "head of the throne". Something kind of imbecilic, honestly because of her childish way of thinking that the world is beautiful, just because she saw a possibility that was destroyed and she still believes in humanity, not knowing how to deal with it all and running away from it all. Really the pathetic one in most of the story related to the Dreemurr family and the monsters is her, not Asgore or anyone else.

And another point, is that not all those children were really innocent and they all had to kill Asgore to get through the barrier (you need a human soul and a monster chief soul to get through the barrier). Although, I don't blame them entirely for this, Toriel probably didn't even warn them about it, just as she didn't warn Frisk.

Some descriptions of their souls implied that they were not really as innocent as you might think. Some of the weapons even had the dust of some monster on them.

Deltarune, Dreemurr family:

Well, in Deltarune the Dreemurr family literally has the entire family alive, but yet... Toriel still divorced Asgore, which is really strange, considering that this time Asgore probably didn't do anything major.

What could have happened?

Toriel lost feelings for Asgore? or something to do with a child or something like that, involving some death or even a missing person.

Yes, I am talking about Dess. Apparently she is reported missing in Deltarune, some even consider her death(?).

This might be the only plausible reason for Toriel to divorce Asgore. Instead of something like loss of interest/feeling for the person or something more stupid.

But, if that's what it is.... I imagine it wasn't even Asgore's fault, but still Toriel considers it his fault, only she considers it his fault.

She really doesn't know how to compare things... most probably the cops had to call off their search, after all... she could be dead or there really was no way to go any deeper, considering that the cops there can't just leave a small town alone for so many days just because of one child.

Yes, it sounds kind of silly, but the police can't risk countless lives or leave unavailable police officers just because of one child, even if she is the mayor's daughter.

Police officers have the duty to take difficult decisions, even if sometimes they have to make some sacrifices, but they still have to continue their service, and we don't even know if their disappearance was because of something or someone.

A lot of people imagine that she went somewhere far away with Kris and others and she ended up getting lost in some dangerous place related to snow, ice or something(?).

People have to stop thinking that one life is more important than the others, sometimes we have to make difficult decisions.

One or 7 lives are not worth an entire unprotected city or an entire race, just because of your morally imbecile or something.

That makes you selfish, even imbecilic.

Honestly, society is kind of hypocritical, all they want is for you to make decisions without mistakes, as if human beings are perfect, and they are not. And when you make a decision, it's hard, they can label you as a monster or some "horrible" being. If you don't have many choices to make in that situation... or even situations that you can't take care of or continue with.

Just to be clear, I am not sure about any of this, but yes, I imagine it is something related to this.

Instead of being something like loss of interest or something like that in the person. Some people think that because it was betrayal, but I imagine that it wasn't, if it was really betrayal by Asgore, Toriel wouldn't even look him in the face, and Asgore wouldn't even try to get back with her, after all... Asgore knows well when he's wrong, and it's really a pity that he himself doesn't know that he's not to blame. Decisions are made, they can be good or bad, you don't have the power to make everything the way you want it.

You can't avoid certain things or make correct decisions all the time, everybody sometime can make some fatal mistake, but it's really not entirely your fault.

We are beings that make mistakes, sometimes they are not even mistakes, but just decisions that sometimes are not even wrong or right, just choices that must be made, even if a choice can hurt someone, but still... it will still save a lot of people, and you will for sure feel guilty about it, but don't worry, this is normal, and for sure you will get over it with time... even if it takes a while. Honestly... Asgore's choice was certainly not wrong, or even his fault.

These are choices that must be made, even if it is difficult for him or not. All of this is something related to Asgore's former job, that he was eventually taken off the police force by the mayor.

Mini-theory: Also, I wonder, is this person...who gave this information to Toriel? That would be quite interesting actually, I hope the game lets the players have more control and fix things that should be fixed or things that need to be improved, even if it is not the ending we ultimately want.

But despite all this ... I ... still love them, because surely, if they knew how to face their problems better, they would be able to maintain a better relationship and get back together again.

But Toriel's hypocritical behavior... doesn't help one bit, but I still have a little faith in this couple of goats.

#asgore #toriel #asriel #chara #dreemurr #undertale #asgoriel #deltarune

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luanrabelo123 · 1 year

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A Patreon reward! Nuzzles under the mistletoe~

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luanrabelo123 · 1 year

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Surely one of the most moronic things I see is how the Undertale fandom is how they defend Toriel, for the simple fact that Asgore killed the 6 "innocent" children, not all of whom were innocent. Some weapons had some very peculiar descriptions, as did the other souls. And also people defend the fact that he wanted to exterminate humanity, but we all know who started this whole war was the human beings themselves, they were the ones who imprisoned the monsters because the monsters had the ability to use their souls and have an immeasurable power, able even to kill countless humans, but not all. Why am I saying this? Well, because of the simple fact that Toriel said that he needed a human soul to go through and get the other souls, she gave a justification saying that if the Asgore really wanted to free his people, and we know very well that the Asgore only declared the war because of a moment of anger, he never really wanted to start a war, but he couldn't really undo this declaration, because the monsters needed to have hope, since if he doesn't they literally fall and then die...

Toriel is just an idiot, and look she considered the head of the throne... another bull, surely if she was the head of the throne she wouldn't have taken such tragic measures without thinking. She simply abandoned her own people and her husband... and she really didn't even care about the monsters anymore, we can see this because she considers all monsters outside the ruins as the Asgore, only less worse, and also she doesn't care much about the monsters in the ruins (apparently). Because you can kill one in front of her and she doesn't even care if you killed it or not, and she considers the monsters in the ruins as "pacifist"... imagine if they weren't, I even wonder why she just appeared out of nowhere at the end of the game. This woman is really an imbecile, and probably nothing but a crazy person who thinks all these children would be something like Chara, considering them as her little "children".

What pisses me off most about the fandom is... bro? Who cares about those kids, simply nobody... fuck the humans of Undertale, they trapped the monsters and killed their kids, I know it was because they didn't know it was happening and what Chara was dying and all... but still, they made the monsters suffer and killed many in the war. What are 7 human souls compared to that? Simply insignificant. You are all just small-headed and moronic, "ain, he killed 6 human souls and blah blah blah". It is not consistent in the situations the monsters were in and caused by the humans themselves. Are you people dumb? Or do you just play dumb? for children who were not really that innocent... and that everyone would go home and surely kill Asgore (since you need a boss soul to be able to get out from underground)

The only mistake Asgore, which is really a mistake was the decision to have given the false hope, but I really don't blame him that much, since after everything happened and he the one who was most hopeless... he suffered the most, probably even more than Sans, after all... it was his responsibility and he was already more destroyed than several monsters... as people called them... "fallen king". And also his "mistake" was his experiments with the monsters themselves, for not investigating and observing as much, as Toriel did after some neutral endings, this was not wrong, since they had consents from the monsters and were trying to save them, and also to try to bring Asriel back and possibly even Chara(?).

Well, that's it... I really don't understand how Toriel thinks and how she wanted him to free his "people" and still in quotes supporting Asgore to take 6 human souls? Probably from people who are not children? Could it be that in her mind, children are totally innocent beings because of Asriel and Chara, even created this madness of monsters and humans living peacefully without this little bickering anymore? Just for two beings that became friends and brothers? Not everyone is like that, and this thinking of hers is pathetic, she is just a hypocrite who puts her mistakes and failures on others, unlike Asgore who knows he is "wrong" and is even reluctant to fight with the player, throwing even some random fire attacks for him not to hit you, he is not even using the souls or trying to kill you for real, he holds back, so much that he still give you a chance to survive with 1 of HP, because he thinks he doesn't deserve mercy...

He is definitely the most complex among the characters. And let's remember that Asgore can remember a little bit about timelines. Since when you told him, he seems to remember a little, but nothing really compared to Sans.

Nevertheless, I still ship them...

#asgore #undertale #toriel

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luanrabelo123 · 2 years

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Toriel did not agree with the part about Asgore having to wait for 6 humans to fall and start a new war. Since at first, Asgore wanted to destroy humanity using the 7 human souls. But since he lost everything, he regretted it in the end.

She wanted him to take the other 6 human souls on the surface and free her people, but Asgore thought differently. Even if he could get through the barrier with only one human soul, he wouldn't be able to defeat the humans alone, since they would most likely walk together. And even if Asgore could go head to head with more than one human, he wouldn't be able to fight several humans. After all, they are even stronger than the monsters, and it's also unclear if an adult human is stronger in relation to status / power.

The story of Asgore and the monsters is a sad one, they lost hope. And even though Asgore gave a false hope, it was not enough, since they were desperate, as Toriel herself said. Worst of all is that Asgore is the one who has the least hope after the events... he lost his wife, his children, he failed to give a happy ending that he wanted to give to his people...

That's why I think it's kind of silly of Toriel, why didn't she help him? She herself as she said wanted him to get the other 6 souls and free his people peacefully, but would that be possible? How, since he would still have to get other human souls, which would only make another war against the humans, and this time... a war that would end with the monsters being extinct (for sure). Since the humans are in the majority, there are very few monsters underground, which makes it impossible.

The question that remains is... how would it be possible? Even if humans were to accept this, the chances are very small, even minimal, literally something almost impossible. Toriel probably had some hope that humans and monsters would come in harmony. Once Chara and Asriel lived well together, as they used to, before the war of monsters and humans. She thought they could live in peace/harmony with the humans, but things don't work that way and never will. Human beings are mischievous beings, each person lives differently and has different thoughts and goals.

Asgore knows it wouldn't work her way. No matter how she thinks and her beliefs or whatever, things will never be easy that way. He was more realistic, after all. The humans and monsters have had a war before, it would just make another war if they followed the way Toriel talked, just creating another war anyway.

It was a battle of survival between humans and monsters. For some reason Toriel implies that she is more on the side of the humans than the monsters (given everything that happened and considering these other humans who fell underground as her children). Like she doesn't care about the monsters, she only cares about the humans because she thinks the monsters are wrong for them wanting to start a new war. Being that it was the humans who started this cold war (before the monsters were imprisoned underground). They were afraid of the monsters' ability to use their souls and to have immeasurable power.

That's why I say Toriel is the most stupid of all the characters in the story, if you consider everything you've seen in Undertale. Only... worst of all, people consider her the most innocent of all, and she is guilty, not only as a queen, since she ran away from her responsibilities, but also as a wife. And then come those people who haven't even seen the story of the game properly, and say that he is responsible for himself, as an adult, a king, or whatever. Being that... that's not how it works. If you marry someone, you have to love that person and try to understand the person, their feelings and so on. Help that person, whom you called your spouse.

It's okay for you to divorce someone for some reason, maybe for lack of love or something, but that's not really what happened in Undertale. Since if you explore the game properly and also depending on what happened, and I don't see this as a good enough reason in the circumstances that they were in. Not only those two, but everyone, after all... they are the royal family, and they had duties to fulfill and to command.

And also don't give me the fact that Toriel lost and his children, and that is somewhat justified. Asgore also lost his children just like Toriel, after all they were both a couple and parents of the same children. Toriel was the most cowardly of all for running away from his responsibility and also as a wife. Asgore is obviously not so innocent either, for in a moment of rage he declared war against humanity and ordered them to kill any human that fell underground, and also gave false hope to his people, for he didn't really want to make this war or start killing people, not monsters and not humans, he just wanted to live peacefully underground, for he knew that even if they came out of there, they would end up being killed anyway by the humans, causing just another war against humanity. And yes, I think he should also understand Toriel's side a little bit, and both comfort and help each other as a couple, but that's not what happened.

But the worst is still Toriel, since she is a hypocrite who couldn't say anything about Asgore since she didn't do anything and still wanted to blame someone else, when she herself could have prevented it from the beginning. If she wanted so much for Asgore to take the other human souls on the surface and go back and free the monsters, why didn't she do it herself? Worst of all, she wants to blame Asgore for something, and she just showed up at the end and did nothing at the end. And you also have the neutral routes that she comes back as queen as if nothing happened (I know she was late and not on time, but it still doesn't justify it). She also calls the monsters outside the ruins as barbarians or heartless killers, and if you kill a monster that she herself said is a pacifist monster, she says nothing, you can kill a monster in front of her and not do shit... you can see how hypocritical and dirty this goat can be. And then people still say that Asgore is worse than Toriel or whatever, and that's just bullshit.

To this day I don't understand why people ignore these facts, just because of the fact that she is the kind of favorite among the characters for considering her an "innocent" or a "good" mother, or else all this is just because of the people who ship Sans with her, which is also another piece of shit (in my opinion).

#asgore #undertale

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