#(for the record I actually don't necessarily believe that about the Betty thing | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

inbarfink · 8 months

Text

So just after episode 5 and 6 came out I made a post noting the apparent continuity error between Simon Petrikov first identifying himself as studying to be an antiquarian

But in all other cases as just being an antiquarian

Not because I was trying, like, to call-out a minor flub in the internal timeline of Simon's character - but because every in-universe explanation you can use to justify this discrepancy is just both plausibly in-character enough that I can buy it and absolutely hilarious.

Either Simon Petrikov has managed to finish his degree after the Curse of the Magic Crown had started to tear away at his sanity - or he's just causally smoothing over the details that he never finished his degree, cause like, who could ever fact-check him?

(Or my personal favorite, a combination of the two. Simon was powering through finishing his degree despite the Crown eating away at his sanity and his life falling apart and then like five days before he was done - the whole University blew up in thermo-nuclear-magical-Armageddon. So now he's like "screw it!! I did my goddam best, I'm giving myself a degree!!")

But, weeeelll, then the episode 'Jerry' came out and pretty undeniably established that Simon Petrikov does have a Phd.

Like, I don't think Simon is willing or capable of getting away with Academic Fraud in this pre-war university as he does in the Land of Ooo.

So... on one hand you can keep these same previous theories going if you just assume Simon is the kind of guy so reluctant to leave Academia he just keeps... collecting degrees, and 'studying to be an antiquarian' is Over-Achiever Nerd Code for 'going for my third doctorate' or something.

Or on the other hand you can go with something on a similar vain to the fandom's go-to explanation to the other Holly Jolly Secrets Discrepancy with later-establish Simon and Betty stuff

Was one of the first serious mental effects of the Magic Crown's Curse and Madness over Simon's mind is that it made him forget that he already graduated?

81 notes · View notes

traincat · 5 years

Note

i don't ask this with intention of being like One is Better that the Other, but more like understanding them better; how would you say peter's relationships are different form each other, in a nutshell? (or just with gwen and mj?)

That’s a valid question because they are very different relationships and while I don’t like talking about them with the view that One Woman Is Better For The Man Than This Other Woman, Therefore Other Woman Is Terrible, I do think it’s important to acknowledge those differences and they’re interesting to talk about.

Here’s the thing: in 616, I think it’s very important that Peter and Mary Jane aren’t each other’s first relationship. We don’t know as much about her relationship history as we do about Peter’s – we know she’s seen other people, including Harry, but I think it’s important to keep in mind that for the majority of her life, since she was fourteen years old in canon, she’s known Peter was Spider-Man and for a long time kept that secret to herself. (We also know as per ASM #259 that serious relationships justifiably scare her – but I’ll get to that in a moment.) But Peter seriously dated Betty Brant when he was in high school, and, though I don’t think it gets talked up enough in discussions about Peter and Gwen, before Gwen’s death she and Peter were very much planning to get married.

(Amazing Spider-Man #103)

Cut for length.

(Peter had also briefly thought about proposing to Betty Brant at the end of high school. He’s a marriage monster.)

If I had to use one word to sum up Peter and Gwen’s relationship it would be “passionate.” And not always in a good way. They have a very fast connection in comics, but initially, they don’t really like each other that much.

(Amazing Spider-Man #35)

They’re on the same wavelength – that wavelength just happens to be “this hot person pisses me off so bad.” But then John Romita sweeps in and things get romantic as opposed to Ditko’s more prickly, vampier Gwen take, and Peter and Gwen start to get closer. That Mary Jane enters the picture and is seeing Peter probably doesn’t hurt Gwen making a more aggressive move on him. One thing I want to clarify that in modern day the word “dating” conjures up, first to mind, a serious image when we talk about fictional relationships, but Peter and MJ were very casually seeing each other after they first finally came face to face, something that seemed to annoy Peter actually:

(Amazing Spider-Man #44) In Webspinners #1′s backup story, The Kiss, Peter describes MJ at this point in time as mercurial and indirect, and says that’s one of the reasons he was more attracted to Gwen at the time. Gwen’s very direct, very passionate, and very open with her emotions, whereas Mary Jane and Peter both have their own secrets. It makes a certain amount of sense that Peter would be drawn to that openness. Peter and Gwen also have a keen interest in the sciences in common, which I also think is a pretty important factor in their early courtship when you consider part of the reason Peter felt isolated in high school was that his classmates didn’t share his interests:

(Amazing Spider-Man #53)

Once Peter and Gwen are together, things get pretty serious pretty quickly, with lots of sappy love declarations and both of them bringing the other around their parents.

(Amazing Spider-Man #68) Like I said, one of the things I often see overlooked in discussions about Peter and Gwen is just how serious the relationship was at the time of Gwen’s death. They were if not officially engaged then definitely pre-engaged and making plans for marriage. Peter had even wrangled his way into a staff position at the Daily Bugle specifically with his future marriage to Gwen in mind.

(Amazing Spider-Man #99) Peter used to be super good at this whole responsibility thing, in both his costumed and uncostumed lives.

This isn’t to say Peter and Gwen didn’t have problems – while people paint an image of the college days before Gwen’s death as being some big MJ/Peter/Gwen love triangle, that’s not really true. MJ had a tendency to flirt with Peter, especially in front of Gwen and also Harry, who MJ was seeing at the time, but it was Peter who was at times irrationally jealous of Flash’s flirting with Gwen.

(Amazing Spider-Man #72)

(ASM #80) Poor Flash really suffered as the least dramatic member of this friend group. It’s a little ironic that Peter got so heated up about Flash of all people because, while Flash does at one point profess more than friendly feelings to Gwen, he’s exceptionally gentle about it and never actually tries to threaten her relationship with Peter.

(Amazing Spider-Man #107)

On Gwen’s side of things, Peter’s frequent disappearances troubled her, and she often begged him to stay with her in times of danger – when he was trying to slip out and discreetly change into his Spider-Man costume – so that Peter would prove to her that he wasn’t a coward. (Look, it was the 60s and 70s in superhero comics and machismo was a big deal.) She could be insecure – Peter’s disappearances sometimes made her think he didn’t love her anymore, a feeling which was compounded when she accidentally lost her temper and yelled at Aunt May about her tendency to coddle Peter, causing May to put some distance between them, and after the death of her father, for which she initially blamed Spider-Man.

(Amazing Spider-Man #91) It was that hatred of Spider-Man that made Peter hesitate proposing to her initially, and she briefly left to stay with her uncle and aunt in England thinking that he didn’t care for her as much as she did for him. All those are, when you get down to it, far more serious issues in the relationship than the notion that Mary Jane and Gwen were constantly fighting over Peter.

I said if I had to pick one word for Peter and Gwen’s relationship it would be “passionate” – but I think that’s in part because Gwen herself is a very passionate character. For all her emotional openness compared to Mary Jane’s at the time party girl facade, Gwen felt very deeply about everything, especially about her relationship with Peter. I don’t doubt that if Gwen had lived, she and Peter would have gotten married – it was the natural progression for their relationship at the time. However, I’m not sure they would have stayed married, and not for any “selling the marriage to the devil” reasons. I’m sure they would both have tried very hard to make it work, and I don’t think separating would be easy for either of them, but I’m just not sure if I see them as a successful long term relationship. (Which, for the record, doesn’t make me ship them less.)

With that in mind, I also don’t know if I think PeterMJ happens without Gwen’s death – at least, not in the specific way it does in comics. While he was definitely initially attracted to her – it’s a running joke before Mary Jane appears on panel that Peter desperately tries to avoid meeting her because he thinks that, because Aunt May approves of her and says she’s a nice girl, that she’ll be ugly, which is where Mary Jane’s famous “face it, tiger” line comes in when she reacts to his surprise at the door – the further in love Peter falls with Gwen, the less intrigue Mary Jane seems to hold for him. Before Gwen’s death, he’s even disapproving of her advances, and dislikes the fact that she hits on him in front of Harry when she and Harry are dating.

(Amazing Spider-Man #97)

(ASM #106)

At the time of Gwen’s death, Peter’s impression of Mary Jane isn’t the most favorable in the world: he thinks she’s a flighty, irresponsible party girl – which, to be fair, is the impression Mary Jane has put some serious effort into cultivating. This changes with Gwen’s death with one very important scene that signifies – not necessarily to Peter, who is lost in his grief at the moment, but to the readers – that that’s not who Mary Jane is at all, and it’s the door scene from Amazing Spider-Man #122.

I’ve noted before that Peter has a tendency to lash out verbally towards the people in his life when he’s in the depths of grief, and he can be very good at hurting people, like here when he accuses Mary Jane of not caring that Gwen’s dead and telling her to get out.

And she doesn’t. If I had to pick a scene that I think is the most pivotal turning point in any Marvel comics relationship, it would be this one.

Peter and Mary Jane have a more complicated build up to their romance than Peter and Gwen did. Unlike Gwen, who was very much a heart on her sleeve girl, Mary Jane has secrets of her own, something Peter doesn’t really seem to realize when they do launch into a romance of their own, and when Mr. Marriage pops the question to her the first time Mary Jane ends up turning him down.

(ASM #183)

Mary Jane’s commitment issues are seated deep-seated. Gwen, as far as we know, had no reason not to believe in true love. Mary Jane has many.

(ASM #259)

I love Amazing Spider-Man #257-259 because they totally recontextualize everything about Mary Jane and throw all her previous actions into a sharp and different new light that just makes the most perfect sense. ASM #257-259 reveals two very important things. The first is that Mary Jane knew the whole time, since before Peter ever laid eyes on her, that he was Spider-Man, and that she’s been walking around the whole time carrying this secret.

(Spider-Man: Parallel Lives)

The second is that, with Mary Jane having told Peter she knows his biggest secret, she makes it an even trade and tells him her own, letting him know the details of her childhood that shaped her into the person she is. It’s really worth reading for yourself if you haven’t already and in my opinion it’s one of the best backstory reveals ever written.

(ASM #259)

Peter and Mary Jane enter into a weird stage in their relationship at this point in time. Mary Jane is, essentially, the only person Peter can confide in once he learns she’s known his secret all along. Mary Jane, on the other hand, finds the nitty-gritty details of Spider-Man’s life difficult to deal with, even as she tries to be there for Peter. One thing I see a lot in Mary Jane vs Gwen discourse is that while Mary Jane loves Spider-Man, Gwen loves Peter, which is a completely movie-based fabrication – in 616, Mary Jane frequently wishes Peter wasn’t Spider-Man and worries about him risking his life. They have a very strong emotional – and physical – connection at this point, but they’re not officially romantically together, and during this point in time Peter is still involved in a tumultuous on-and-off relationship with Felicia Hardy.

(Spectacular Spider-Man #116)

“I’ve just ruined a perfectly good lie.” (Spider-Man vs Wolverine)

They don’t officially get together again until Peter proposes marriage – again. Although Mary Jane initially turns down his offer again, she later calls him from her sister’s home in Pittsburgh asking him to come down and help her.

(ASM #291)

Hearing about Mary Jane’s past is one thing, but Peter’s confronted with it when he finds himself supporting Mary Jane as she tries to figure out what to do when her father’s schemes have landed her estranged sister in jail. It’s a really great lead up to the marriage: Peter has to learn to trust Mary Jane to make decisions, and Mary Jane takes the reigns when she needs to help out in a Spider-Man fight. At the end, in the airport, she agrees to marry him.

(ASM #292)

It’s not magically perfect after that – in ASM Annual #21, the wedding issue, Peter worries about Mary Jane’s more lavish lifestyle and how she’ll handle his more staid one in addition to his fears over what his enemies could do to his new wife, Mary Jane struggles with the concept of committing after so many years of running from that, and the ghost of Gwen still hangs over them both.

They do both end up making it down the aisle, of course, though:

(ASM Annual #21)

One of the things I love about Peter and Mary Jane is that, while I truly do think the characters are soulmates, they’re not perfect – they have relationship problems as big as Mary Jane worrying Peter’s identity as Spider-Man will get him killed or about what effects his irradiated blood might have on any children she might have, to as small as Peter having a crisis over Mary Jane paying his bills for him:

(Web of Spider-Man #37)

And of course Peter and Mary Jane have a much more complicated and complex relationship than Peter and Gwen did, but that’s because Peter and Mary Jane had hundreds of issues over which it develops and deepens, even after their marriage, whereas Gwen Stacy wasn’t even in 100 issues after her first appearance before she died. So I think Peter and Gwen have much more of an instantaneous love connection, which is aided by Gwen’s own emotional openness, whereas Peter and MJ are more of a slow burn, with a lot of stops and starts along the way that end up being the foundation for a very strong love.

#peter parker #mary jane watson #gwen stacy #marvel comics #*replies #long post/#traincat talks comics #petermj #petergwen #this ended up just being gwen and mj because if i tackled everyone it'd be sooooo long

132 notes · View notes

hbicveronca-blog · 5 years

Text

Riverdale Theories

Still a bit shaken by the season 3 finale? I know I am. Is Jughead really dead? Who is Charles? Is G&G really over? What will season 4 bring to the table? In this blog, I am going to be talking about some theories and guesses for the next season.

Theory #1: Jughead is not Dead.

In the ending scene of 3x22, we get a glimpse of a flashforward to spring break of senior year, showing Archie, Veronica, and Betty all standing around a fire, stripped of their clothes and covered in blood. This scene was clearly meant to imply that the three of them had killed Jughead, considering that Jughead was not present in this scene and Archie threw his iconic beanie into the fire. But still, does that necessarily mean he's dead? I don't think so. One of my main reasons is because he's one of the main beloved characters, so that's where their coins are at. Plus, Cole supposedly has a 6 year contract with the show, so it wouldn't make sense for him to be dead. My second reason is my theory. My theory is that the core four, (or someone in the core four) accidentally killer someone. Like when Sweet Pea and Fangs accidentally killed Tall Boy. Jughead was somewhere else in the woods probably burying the body, while Archie, Veronica, and Betty burnt the evidence. Who did they kill? I think Charles. I think that Charles found out about the body that Betty had helped her mother clean up since Alice had told the farm. Charles probably went to the farm as part of an investigation to take them down, and then Edgar and the Farmies didn't wanna get in trouble, so they ratted out Betty and her Mother. Charles went to the spot where Alice told them they dumped the body, they found the body, and then Charles went to Betty and one of the core four took him down.

Theory #2: Alice Wasn't Always Working for the FBI.

In the season 3 finale, we find out that Alice was supposedly never brainwashed, and that she was working with Charles and the FBI the whole time to try and build a case against Edgar Evernever and the whole Farm. But was she really working with them the whole entire time? I don't think so. So here's my theory for this. When Polly first tried to recruit Alice in Season 2, Alice agreed and joined. Then in the start of season 3 you can see how obsessed she was with Edgar's "healing methods". I think Alice was brainwashed up to a point. I think she was brainwashed until Polly had tried to drown her, and she had realized that there was something fishy going on with the farm. Why do I think this? Here are some reasons. If Alice wasn't brainwashed, then why would she willingly tell the farm in the beginning of season 3 about the dead body she cleaned up? Why did she take Betty's college money and give it to the farm? Why would she tell Betty that she trusts the farm more than Betty? All of those parts don't add up. I think after Polly tried to drown her, she snapped back into reality. Because after that you don't see her making too many sacrifices and telling risky secrets to the farm. Wait, but she sold her house, isn't that a sacrifice for the farm? No. I believe that the memories of living with a serial killer in the house, Hal trying to choke her to death, cleaning up the dead body Chic killed, Betty having her seizure, and the Gargoyle King breaking in all haunted her, so she simply wanted to get rid of it and move on.

Theory #3: Veronica has Another Sibling

We all know that Hermione is full of secrets. Trying to assassinate Hiram, being a part of the Midnight Club, having a secret affair with Sheriff Minetta, having an affair with Sheriff Minetta, trying to frame FP for murder, and being a part of an illegal purchase of Fizzle Rocks with Gladys Jones. So her having an affair with another man wouldn't be the biggest surprise. Hermione could've had a secret affair with someone before having Veronica, and before marrying Hiram. If she could've kept her affair with Sheriff Minetta a secret, then I bet she could've kept another affair secret. My theory is that when Hermione and Hiram graduated high school, they broke up for little while. In that while Hermione got with someone and accidentally got pregnant. The baby was born and she put it up for adoption, a year or two later, Hiram and Hermione got back together, and Hermione never spoke of the child ever again.

Theory #4: Jason has a Long Lost Twin

Jason Blossom is dead. We saw his body wash up on the shore of Sweetv Water River, and at the end of 3x22, we saw Cheryl sitting with the dead body of Jason. But does that automatically mean that Cheryl has no alive Blossom twin left? Not necessarily. In the Archie Comics, Jason and Cheryl Blossom have a long lost twin named Julian Blossom (picture above). Now, we know that the comic storyline barely relates to the show, but here's my theory. Penelope was adopted from the SOQM (Sisters of Quiet Mercy). The Blossoms asked to see all the red-headed children. They found Penelope and adopted her. She was raised to first be Clifford's sister, and as they grew older, become his life companion (AKA wife). So if Penelope was adopted, it would make sense for Cheryl to have been adopted the same way. To be Jason's sister, and then become his life companion. Here's what I think happened before. Penelope had planned to give birth to twins. One girl, one boy. So that the whole life companion thing could be done. But when it came to be that two boys were born instead, she abandoned one of the boys (which would've been Julian Blossom from the comics), and adopted Cheryl. Maybe in season 4, that long lost twin will come back. I mean, we've seen this similar case with Alice and FP. Charles was gone put up for adoption, and now hes back and alive. Could be the same situation over there.

Theory #5: Evelyn is Edgar's Wife and Daughter.

In 3x20 (I believe), it was revealed that Evelyn is actually 26 years old and wasn't actually Edgar's daughter, but Edgars wife. But that doesn't mean that the whole thing about Evelyn being his daughter is completely wrong. In the season 3 finale when edgar is about to perform the procedure on Betty, Evelyn walks in and calls him "Dad". Now this may have merely been a writer's mistake, and they forgot the plot of which Evelyn is actually Edgar's wife, but after all, it's riverdale. It may had been a hidden egg hinting to something more. This wouldn't have been the first case of incest since Jason and Polly dated and had children, and it also wouldn't be the biggest suprise if Edgar seems to have to issue being married to two people (Evelyn and Alice).

Theory #6: Fangs, Edgar, Evelyn, and the Farmies may be Dead.

In 3x22, Edgar said "The ascension is upon us." As we've seen all season 3, ascension seems to mean proving your worthiness and loyalty to the Gargoyle King, by risking or even sacrificing your life. When the core four made it back to the farm, Kevin said "They said someone had to stay behind to tell the story." We've seen this type of situation before, in 2x22, Hal forced Alice to take out her tape recorder to record his reasoning for becoming the Black Hood. When Alice asked why he wanted it all recorded, Hal said "So that they'll know what happened, when they find us." Implying he was going to kill them and then himself. After Kevin said that, he then said "The worthy ascended." When Betty asked him where they are, he said "Gone, and we'll never see them again." Considering he said "the worthy ascended", that seems to give away the fact that the farm had something to do with G&G. Since you have to prove you're worthy to ascend. So I believe most, if not all the farmies, have ascended and died doing so.

Thanks for reading this post! If you enjoyed it please like, comment, follow, and share!! xoxo

#veronica lodge #betty cooper #jughead jones #archie andrews #hiram lodge #riverdale #cheryl bombshell #toni topaz #alice cooper #fp jones #fan theory

8 notes · View notes