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#TPN S1e01
fullscoreshenanigans · 3 months
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The little bow of reflection and smile Ray makes as he briefly soaks in the last morning Emma and Norman will be able to carry out their routine as usual knowing the horror they'll endure before night's end.
He knows they'd both prefer the harsh truth over a pretty lie, would hate to think about other siblings suffering the same fate as Conny, Hao, Sadie, Susan, and so many more before them if there was even the slightest chance of being able to do something about it. It's part of what he loves about them; where he had the tendency to give up after years of learned helplessness and self-loathing, they would resolutely say "no" and escape the system they had been born into.
(they are better, they are deserving, unlike him)
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He loves them so much he can't help but let some of his fondness show on his face as he savors Emma's reaction to seeing him and Norman, because if that isn't so incredibly her, to love so effortlessly and uninhibited, to live so unabashedly authentic.
It's part of what got him through a life he cursed and part of why he has faith if anyone will be able to do this, it'll be them.
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fullscoreshenanigans · 7 months
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Oh how I very much love how the anime decided to alter that second line and have it end on a shot of Ray.
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(read: I am in agony)
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fullscoreshenanigans · 3 months
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I just think about it but the whole Ray's plan at the beginning would have failed in so many ways.
Connie could have wondered where was her plushie at the moment of crossing the door.
Imagine if Emma and Norman have run into Isabella on the way to the gate (because she would have heard them by exemple) and tell "mama, Connie forget her plushie" so Isabella would have took it and say "Connie meets her parents right now. It's better to not bother her. I'll put it with his baggage"
Can you imagine if they were come back to Ray, saying "don't worry, we meet Mum on the way and she took it"
Ray: *internal screaming*
I mean Connie was the LAST shipment before Ray. It was 3 months, more or less, before his own shipment. If he had failed, what could he have done? Said the truth? Would Emma and Norman believe THAT without seeing it? Well all the others escapees believed it. But Emma was deeply attached to Isabella, she had need to see the demons to believe it.
But i understand that making his plan tro motion when let's say Hao was shipped (i think it was him before Connie?) would have given more time, and mayvbe on security if his plan had failed to re-do it the next time, but then Emma would have to accept Connie's shippement if they were not ready. Sacrifie her to save all the others. Pretty sure that she wouldn't have, and i don't even speak about Don here.
(Continued)
It's kinda sad to think that, even if the escapees managed to run away from the farm, happy to be free, happy that Ray is alive and all, their survival wasn't assured until they got in the bunker and even before, until they meet Sonju and Mujika. I mean without Sonju and Mujika, Emma could have died of infection and Ray would have been killed by demons, few hours after have been saved by Emma and few MINUTES after have decided to live for his family. (Sonju saved him just in time) The escape would be over very quickly for them. Not sure that the other kids would have managed to survive alone, without their big siblings to guide them :/ (meaning they wouldn't have reached the bunker at all or at least a lot later) (meaning that Yuugo would have killed himself) (Goldy Pond wouldn't have succeeded as well that in canon, a lot more would be dead) (and can you imagine Norman's reaction after his escape TT)
The first thing I usually think of is what a crapshoot Ray's idea is to have Emma and Norman go to the gate with Little Bunny in the first place.
On the one hand, it's a testament to his faith in them.
On the other hand, he is so disproportionately lucky on his bet that the demons wouldn’t pick up on their scents right away. He had, at best, fragmentary knowledge of demon physiology from his earliest months where maaaybe he could remember how well their sense of smell worked?
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(Chapter 28; we're not going to think how they were paying special attention to him as Isabella the youngest mom in the history of the Grace Field and who's off limits to eat's child, so he's the next best thing as her progeny if he ends up not being good enough of an offering for the demon god)
The only reasons the two lackey demons don’t come after Emma and Norman right away are they’re caught up in conversation and probably a bit intoxicated off the idea of being able to eat even "just a fingertip" of Conny (and being charitable to Isabella, she probably doesn’t notice them sneak away because she’s grappling internally over seeing the life of another child she raised for five years snuffed out and having to keep up an iron façade about it.)
I like to joke that Emma is integral to the escape plan for her sheer obstinate railroading of any hiccups of probability, most egregiously expressed in it securing someone with a Minerva pen who was willing to give it up for them so they weren’t left wandering aimlessly outside the walls of Grace Field, who only got the pen in the first place because she lit off a lantern as a child that a Minerva supporter happened to come across by coincidence,
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(Comic of Krone's childhood earned from completing the aptitude test on the official site; reprinted in The Promised Neverland Art Book World)
and bringing two of the only few demons in the entire demon world who won’t eat them for different reasons to their aid when they most desperately needed it, and that only happened because Leuvis was bored one day 700 years ago and decided to help his brother and his brother's new girlfriend escape the imperial capital by bringing them his horse in the third light novel. I love TPN.
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fullscoreshenanigans · 8 months
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What's your thoughts on Ray and Norman's conversation after the spy reveal, where Ray says Norman should've discarded him and Norman says he would've but Emma convinced him otherwise? Was Norman really going to do that? (sorry if you've already talked about it but I missed;;)
You're good! I talked about the framing of the end of the scene here forever ago in internet time, touch on it here as an add-on to a post regarding the false belief there was a rivalry founded on the basis of a classic love triangle inextricably integrated into the core of the narrative (i.e., Norman and Ray actually dislike each other because they're both vying for Emma's romantic affection), and a brief summary of those feelings in this paragraph from this post, so my thoughts on it are kind of scattered about lol
Ray knows Norman, knows his sense of rigid morality well enough to account for him discovering his alliance with Isabella and using that to his advantage, to further push Norman away so he’ll be more comfortable with using him (he even chides Norman for not keeping his original plan to do this a secret) and so his death will hurt him and Emma less. And for roughly the entire back half of October 2045, Norman did genuinely hate Ray for his betrayal in the same way he hated Isabella, his reaction so visceral at being deceived and hurt by people he had loved all his life. He would have been willing to sacrifice Ray if not for intervention from Emma, which opened him up to directly confronting Ray and, in turn, led him to discover Ray’s true motives. He was so humbled and taken aback by the depths of Ray’s love and loyalty he returned to his original categorization of him: a dear friend who needed to be saved from his intended fate in their cruel world. Even if saving him came at the cost of his own life; even if he desperately wanted to live.
So I do believe Norman would have done it given the circumstances, and that Ray was banking on him doing so if Norman suspected him of being the traitor (and from Ray's perspective, this was the more likely outcome because of how much stock he puts in Norman's intelligence).
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It fits with Ray's meticulous planning, Norman's overall morality when left on his own at this point in his life plus his pride and ruthlessness, and the series' themes of redemption/second chances for those who genuinely work toward change and the positive influence of friendship/solidarity over isolation.
Upon discovering the truth of the house, Norman's first instinct is to grab Emma and Ray and get out of there.
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His mind is absolutely fried by what's just taken place and its implications, and he's scrambling to come up with a plan, focusing on whatever he believes is still familiar and safe to ground himself so he can shake off the emotional and mental paralysis he's in. I love how both the manga and anime convey how shell-shocked he is with the weary lines under his eyes and the thousand-yard stare he's got going on as he's floating outside himself. It's all completely understandable.
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This is one of my most-cited details about the anime taking advantage of the medium shift. Both Emma and Norman are completely shocked by Isabella being there, but it only takes Norman a second to shift between that initial shock to sorrow over realizing what it means that the woman who he’s viewed as his mother his entire life is here casually talking with demons and not recoiling in horror at what’s taken place. He genuinely loved her.
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(Chapter 6)
It's part of why he reacts so viscerally to her betrayal, another being his pride taking a hit due to being outmaneuvered by her. He's scored perfect 300s on his test since the day he started taking them at four-years-old, the first child in the history of Grace Field ever to do so. While he's never haughty or smug over this, he does find comfort in his intelligence. This undermines him in a way that not only cuts him to the quick, but also puts his family at risk, and he's determined to come out on top in this game of high-stakes wits and save them.
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(Chapter 10)
So after being dealt the crushing blow that Isabella was raising him and his siblings just to be food for demons, a few days later he's dealt another one when Krone's appearance leads him to instantly suspect Ray as the most probable and convenient informant for her. Ray was one of his two main pillars of strength he could fall back on in a time where his whole world has shifted beneath him. They had been together ever since he could remember, and he was disgusted with himself for even thinking Ray could do this. Like Isabella, he genuinely loved him too. In the face of the insurmountable conclusion he'd drawn, however, he couldn't ignore reality, not when the lives of Emma and his siblings hinged on him not making any more mistakes.
The revelation of this betrayal silently festers over the course of roughly two weeks. During that time, Ray even encourages Norman to be ruthless when dealing with his enemies.
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(Chapter 7)
It doesn't take long for Norman to get on board.
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(Chapter 9)
And while he ultimately comes to the conclusion that suppressing the adults is the better course of action,
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(Chapter 10)
the poignancy of the fork symbolism is still there: stay vigilant, stay sharp, stay ruthless. Even if it means discarding one of your best friends once he's no longer useful in the escape plan. (I'll use this as an opportunity to plug one of my favorite pieces of art on the subject by @nekokat42. It's funny how over the course of the story, Norman ends up taking after Isabella the most out of the trio on this front.)
In the same way his categorization of Isabella has shifted in his mind, so too has his categorization of Ray, and he would have stayed there if Norman hadn't sought Emma's perspective on the matter. It parallels nicely to when she acts as his moral compass in chapter 1/episode 1.
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Emma's automatic, genuine desire to save everyone quickly sobers him up from his stupor and his plan for just the three of them to escape. He's touched by this, her being far more selfless than him, and he silently chides himself for not even considering trying before resolving to make Emma's ideal outcome a reality.
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(Chapter 13)
Emma reaffirms the importance of considering the nuance and material circumstances of their situation, what the logical fallout would be for the traitor if they were left behind during the escape, and the biggest thing for Norman, striving for better instead of settling for pragmatism when you still have the opportunity to effect change on the world around you and reach an outcome you'll be happier with.
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(Chapter 14)
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(Chapter 13)
Norman being willing to use and discard Ray makes the impact of him switching his stance on the matter and later realization of Ray's true motives hit harder while also providing a basis for his actions and beliefs during later arcs after he's been isolated from the positive influence of his family.
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(The Good Place; borrowing because I like the conciseness and feel it's applicable to Norman, Ray, and Yuugo.)
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With the way the final seconds of this sequence are framed in the anime—going from a shot of a giddy yet harried Norman to a self-chiding Ray to Eugene's drawing of a trio of children—I feel like they wanted to draw attention to this aspect of his realization more than chapter 14 did where Norman's more focused on what Ray's position as Isabella's spy affords the plan. Here it looks like he's taking in the full ramifications of the choice he would have made if he hadn't talked with Emma; a future where he threw away a dear friend who had made years of impossible decisions as Isabella's sheepdog and was willing to die so that they could have one, because for Ray it's always been about Emma and Norman. What once appeared to be a selfish choice to save his own skin was actually one born out of love and loyalty, and once again Norman is disgusted with himself over his presumptions and saddened by Ray's intention to die, though at this point he hasn't seen the lighter fluid stockpiled under Ray's bed, so he has yet to figure out how he plans to pull it off. It's an ache profound enough to leave him startled and reaching to cover his mouth in its wake. One that could possibly be prompted without Norman intending to discard Ray since on top of everything else already going on he's now aware Ray plans on killing himself, which is devastating, but I think it's more poignant if he was going to go through with it.
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fullscoreshenanigans · 8 months
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We lose a number of things in the transition between the manga and the anime such as all the minute details Demizu puts into the architecture, but for me it's worth it in season 1 for little animated nuances like this. Both Emma and Norman are completely caught off guard by Isabella being there, but it only takes Norman a second to shift between that initial shock to sorrow over realizing what it means that the woman who he’s viewed as his mother his entire life is here casually talking with demons and not recoiling in horror at what’s taken place. The way it creeps into his features is heartbreaking.
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Another thing we unfortunately lose in the anime is confirmation Norman is the one who designates the demons as demons as opposed to settling on it as a term of convenience in episode 2 after having some time to muse on it (though Emma does tearfully ask Norman how are they supposed to escape from those monsters in her shared bedroom later).
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There's a chilling, sinking horror upon reaching that conclusion with the moral connotation he associates with the term after witnessing the casual, gleeful indifference at his sister's life being snuffed out by these unknown creatures. Demizu's use of dark negative space as opposed to the backdrop of the inner gate's floor and the bottom of the truck further enhance the haunted, hollow feeling that's settled in his gut and etched into his expression as he whispers it into existence.
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It's probably why Sonju reacts like this to Ray using the term in chapter 46, back before the promise when humans would openly regarded them as such despite their mutual participation in slaughter. "Monsters" can potentially overlap with this, but it seems to be more associated with mindless chaos unattached to any moral code, less severe in degree and scorn. Demons consciously choose to inflict cruelty and suffering, and it's a visceral, near-immediate designation from Norman founded on all the information and media he's been exposed to over the course of his short life.
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(Director Mamoru Kanabe in the Minerva Confidential Report from the S1 Blu-ray)
I do understand why it was cut since the scene was reduced to less than a fourth of the episode's run time, and being in an audio-visual medium the grunt demons not picking up on their whispering on top of missing their scents becomes a bit harder for the viewer to ignore, but I still find it lamentable, especially with the differences that crop up in a later scene in the middle of episode 2 and the ending of chapter 2/start of chapter 3.
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In the anime, Norman and Emma are presented as being on the same wavelength regarding Isabella as an enemy, and while weary of what now stands before them, their anger is more muted.
In the manga, Emma is having more difficulty reconciling the woman who raised her for over a decade with the one she saw at the gate the previous night.
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Norman, though, emphatically renounces her. "Demon" is an extremely loaded designation for him, and it's spat out with such complete bile in his voice and reflected in his body language. He's physically revolted by her. I've talked about how rigid his morality is before and how badly his pride takes a hit at being deceived and left in such a vulnerable state (coupled with the horror of losing children he considers family), so it's regrettable to lose those insights into his character for the sake of episode runtime.
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Continuing off my previous post wrt little adaptional changes I enjoy, Norman being awed at the depths of his two best friends, and once again going back to the conversation where Ray reveals he's Isabella's spy, there's this split-second bit of Norman uttering a tiny gasp and having a muted but still visible shift in his expression at the conclusion Emma reaches in the span of their brief conversation and how she chooses to approach their latest situation.
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Rather than put up any front (and we know she can based on her confrontation with Isabella in the hallway), she openly displays her inner turmoil, both because she’s with the two people she trusts the most, and she knows how reticent Ray is in general, so there’s a hope in his answer being more reciprocal in honesty by approaching it the way she does: deeply empathetic, letting him know she's there for him, but firm in that Ray cannot continue to carry on in the way he has been.
It leaves Norman in quiet awe because even after his conversation with Ray the previous night, where he discerned Ray was willing to die so that he and Emma could live, and how he’s trying to follow Emma’s lead on magnanimity, he reverts back to familiar habits when he thinks he needs to go on the defensive, with the earlier line of “do you think he’s lying?” said openly in front of Ray, ready to switch at a moment's notice if Emma's picked up on something that he missed and letting Ray know about it. (A little bit trying to shield his pride at potentially being duped again, a little bit trying to avoid being left vulnerable because it can never be stressed enough that the volatility of his reaction to Ray's betrayal is grounded in him genuinely loving and caring about Ray from his earliest memories. He doesn't want to be hurt again.) But here she is, considering the emotional toll all of this took on Ray, a part of the equation Norman neglected.
This is also after she initially lists off the pragmatic aspects of Ray being Isabella's spy, which surprises him a bit
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though he can follow her logic; it's similar to the conclusions he comes to in the manga.
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(Chapter 14)
But like episode 1 foreshadows with him silently chiding himself for only initially considering the possibility of him, her, and Ray escaping
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that adorable pause of awe and wonderment hearkens back to this panel that is so very integral to his being:
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(Chapter 14)
Even with each new development, she still remains true to her ideals, operating with kindness and understanding until proven without a shred of doubt that doing so is futile because that’s the world she wants to live in (e.g., speaking with Leuvis about avoiding a confrontation, but shifting gears as soon as he confirms his priority is amusement and conflict because it would jeopardize the lives of all the children at Goldy Pond to pursue it further). There's a deep admiration that's been present for years, and now that their reality has been permanently shifted, it's even stronger as the one constant he's never doubted.
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fullscoreshenanigans · 8 months
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I have a sad headcanon. The mothers aren't forced to stay after have brought the children to the gate. They can return to the house and let the children with the demons. Isabella make the choice to stay and watch everything until the end because she considers that she must stay until the end, that she can't abandon them at this moment after have took care of them for years. Also a part of her see that as a punishment. She is accomplice of this system, she chooses to live by sacrifing those children. And the most important is that she LOVES them. So she stays until the very end because she feels she deserves to suffer and that she must stay at their side until it's over.
Norman and Emma have seen Isabella spoke with the demons. It's because they are used to see her since it has been 12 years, almost 13, that she is doing that so their discussion seems to show that she is as much cruel than them.
And she seems to be indifferent and cold because 1) no way she show weakness to demons (and that's useless anyway) 2) she is horribly used to it so acting cold is more easy after all those years 3) closing her heart in those moments is the best way to doing that without breaking. 4) we see that she kept the toys of all the kids as precious memories. She could send it in another orphenages and forget about it but no. She kept all of those toys.
So i'm pretty sure that it deeply hurt her to see them die, but she watches it because she feel she deserve to suffer and must see everything because looking away would be even more betraying them.
(Really both the mother and the son are masochists :/)
is this even a headcanon it's canon as far as I'm concerned
There's the little room off to the side where theoretically a Mom can excuse herself to avoid having to witness the gupna ceremony. Maybe they claim they need to grab one last thing or sign some paperwork before the child can be driven off to their new foster home. "It won't take long. Wait in the truck, dear, I promise I'll be back in a minute."
Isabella's a queen at compartmentalizing though, so maybe she views staying until the very end, as she stresses to Emma and Norman in chapter 25/episode 8, as her bi-monthly penance for sustaining her life as long as she can.
Norman and Emma have seen Isabella spoke with the demons. It's because they are used to see her since it has been 12 years, almost 13, that she is doing that so their discussion seems to show that she is as much cruel than them.
I like to think after childbirth Isabella was granted the mercy of having some time to recuperate instead of immediately being thrust into being a Mom so it's less than twelve years (as general practice and because of her amazing potential becoming the youngest Mom in Grace Field's known history, you'd think a few months to avoid any potential health risks and finalizing her transition to plant #3 would be a worthwhile cost for headquarters), and because I'm a masochist, I like to headcanon that Ray, Norman, and Emma were the first children raised solely by her and not overlapping with the previous Mom of plant #3 (excluding the child who arrived between Norman and Emma who was unfortunately shipped out at some point before turning eleven), so I see her arriving at plant #3 sometime during November or December of 2033.
Still, that's roughly a decade of going through this with a minimum of sixty children, not counting any children Ray potentially caused to be shipped out early with his experimentation with the tracker deactivator. She might not have done it with the first few, maybe thinking it was potential evidence that could be used against her as an indication of weakness, but eventually it does amass to quite a collection.
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(S1 Episode 6 | Chapter 17)
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References under the cut:
Alice Blue
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(Chapter 153 cover art, specifically from the version of it printed in The Promised Neverland: Art Book World. Slightly cheating, but bear with me for the sake of lighthearted debate since I've seen the tint in fanart.)
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(Bonus stickers for volumes 1-7, reprinted in the art book)
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(Promo art for the anime, reprinted in the art book)
Platinum Blond
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(Special post-canon illustration celebrating TPN's fourth anniversary)
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(The Promised Neverland: Art Book World cover)
Pure White
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(Posuka Demizu's illustration to celebrate TPN's sixth anniversary)
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(S1e01 being a silly boy)
Also including this bit from the art book because it's funny:
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It’s been over a year, and like many people I’m still disappointed with how S2 turned out for a multitude of reasons, but the one I’d like to highlight today is this transition toward the end of the second episode:
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This was something I missed the first time through, but this little detail just? hits me hard.
Butterflies in the series symbolize the cattle children’s souls, so it could be a more general representation of that idea, but given how we transition from Emma, who was just name-dropping Norman, to Ray, the third member of their trio, I tend to default to it being a representation of Norman and how he’s still guiding them forward, even if he isn’t physically there to help support them on this first leg of their journey outside Grace Field.
Everything about Emma and Sonju’s hunting sequence was beautiful. CloverWorks adapted everything from this portion of Ch049 and then some, adding a parallel to the S1e01 sequence of Norman looking upon Conny’s corpse as the water drop hits the puddle (pointed out long before me by @stray-tori​ here)
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and Emma becoming physically ill upon making the connection of what she was doing to what befell her family and countless other cattle children before them.
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They’re small details, but it’s these sort of nuances that made S1 so engaging, rewarding, and enjoyable to watch, at least for me. (A different but equally enjoyable experience to reading the escape arc in the manga). It’s just... it was handled so well. You can tell care was put into boarding the scene and bringing it to the screen.
This is one of the things that bums me out the most about S2. That enough of the creative staff cared to do this, but somewhere along the way the TPN committee told them to drastically alter the original plans for this season, so we don’t have nearly as many poignant, reflective shots like this. It wasn’t a vindictive plot against the fans, it was just how things unfolded behind the scenes, and the staff left with the directions given to them by the higher-ups had to make do and cobble together something as best they could.
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