#but mace did have t'ra as his master | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

marshthat · 3 years

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I'm here for the 16-pages essay about Mace and Eeth :)

LMAO well you asked for that yourself hshsjhsjj *cracks knuckles*

It’s almoust 16 pages long in my google docs, I’m not kidding, so I’m gonna make a little intro and then hide the rest under the “keep reading” thing (also I’m going to shorten it a bit, but nothing significant will be left out, I promise)

Uhm so yes three things for the intro:

1. These takes are based mainly on my ship interpretation of the canon things, so yeah if you don’t want to see the ship material in them they can be easily disagreed with in terms of how correct I see the intentions of the characters behind their words and actions, but BUT you’re here for macekoth aren’t you? So for a macekoth shipper this is a list of totally canon endless happiness and we’ll go with that :)

2. LEGENDS CANON IS CANON (in my heart there is no decanonising of the EU, nooo, I pretend disney didn’t hurt me qwq)

3. I'm not a native speaker and my english is far from perfect so if you think I’m talking strange - yes I am, I’m sorry, but yeah, that’s how we’re rolling here.

And now - moving on to the essay. I will take random pieces of media one by one and explain why exactly I see Mace/Eeth there.

As I call this, “Fantastic MaceKoth hints and interactions, and where to find them”

Star Wars 13: Emissaries to Malastare, Part 1

So, what do we see here? Oooooh, the Concordance of Fealty. In general, the exchange of lightsabers is a very interesting phenomenon in the Jedi Order, and not only because no one remembered it existing before Macekoth decided to engage in one (because there are not known participants in the timeline BEFORE Mace and Eeth, while there are some AFTER) , but also because of its significance. The Concordance of Fealty is said to establish a “master-less learning relationship” between the two Jedi, i.e., a Force-bond that, if not superior, is equally as close and strong as the bond of a master and a padawan, which is said to be the closest bond possible in the Order.

As you see, this ritual required deep mutual trust from both its participants, and here's why: the exchange. of. the lightsabers. I will repeat it once more and even emphasise: THE EXCHANGE. OF. THE LIGHTSABERS.

As Anakin Skywalker said in “The Clone Wars” and Obi-Wan Kenobi said in the “Attack of the Clones”, a lightsaber is a Jedi's life, a thing that one should not part with under any circumstances. And what is the Concordance requiring? Exactly this. Giving away your lightsaber. A voluntary action of entrusting your saber, a product of your own hands, a part of yourself, to another sentient. This act of trust can have a very deep meaning, deep subtext to it, if you want it to.

I’m not saying the Concordance has a romantic subtext to it in general, no - but once again, I’m insisting that if someone wanted it to have a romantic subtext, he had the full freedom to pull a hecking legal jedi WEDDING under the cover story of this ritual. Why a wedding? Let’s dig a bit more in the comic page above. How it is depicted, such an exchange of the lightsabers looks suspiciously similar to the exchange of the wedding rings between the spouses. So making a guess that probably by engaging in the Concordance Mace and Eeth tried to pull off a legal wedding within the walls of the Temple in this disguised way seems like a fairly logical assumption. In addition, given that this ritual is stated to be very ancient and therefore long-forgotten, it is not surprising that a very bold plan like that in fact worked right in front of Yoda’s salad.

In addition, you should pay attention to the form in which these vows of the Concordance sound. Especially this "until one or both of us becomes One with the Force." line. Very very much like the real wedding vows that spouses say before the altar, huh?))) (For example, I’ll leave this link to the site with some sample wedding vows)

Besides, the fact that Mace had made actual EFFORT to find this Concordance ritual is so priceless by itself. However, here I tend to think that it was master T'ra Saa who suggested to Mace to search for the ritual and its details, and here are the reasons why. Master Saa: 1) was in the age of about a thousand of years by the time of TPM because of being a neti (i.e. realistically could be the only one in the Order left who could have remembered this Concordance of Fealty) 2) had her own experience of a romantic relationship, with master Tholme (i.e. she understood the issue of new feelings born between the two Jedi more than the most) 3) T'ra looked after Mace a lot when he was young, so she was literally his mother figure, and to whom can a poor confused with his romantic feelings jedi master go, if not to his tree mom? :З

Shatterpoint (novel) — M. Stover

Here I want to go back to what I said about “the lightsaber is part of the Jedi.” In Stover's novel, there is an episode where Mace looks at Depa Billaba's saber and speculates about whether she could have given it to Nick Rostu voluntarily.

Mace is mentioning the Concordance of Fealty in this novel too!

The curious thing is that Mace asks “Would she give away part of herself?" So, firstly, by this he is confirming that the Concordance implies exactly this act of mutual trust (what I talked about in the previous part), and secondly, he is hinting that since he did perform this ritual with Eeth Koth, it means that he, Mace Windu, willingly entrusted a part of himself to the hands of the zabrak. (and this is HIS interpretation of what the Concordance means to HIM) Isn't that an act of true love?)

Jedi Council: Acts of War, Part 3

Here is a peculiar moment in the comic - when the two groups of the Jedi join together in the final battle to confront the enemy yinchorri army, both Mace and Eeth separate each other's names from the rest of the group when talking about several fellow Jedi at once. And if Eeth can have a reason for this, because Mace was the leader of this whole mission in the first place, Mace himself still doesn’t have any rational reasons to underline exactly Eeth’s name (and in the background of the second frame you can see that the first one to run in the battlefield is also not Eeth, which excludes the possibility of identifying Koth as just running the first).

What I want to say by this is that they just subconsciously separate each other's names, because their first thoughts, of course, focus on their dear beloved, and only then they add “and others”. Also I want to say that consider that MASTER MACE WINDU, the man of the “less talking, more doing” standarts, in the middle of the battle actually FOUND some time to stop and ask how his dear Eeth is doing.

Republic 65: Show of Force, Part 1

In this comic there is not an interaction, but a hint, but even if it's not the most obvious and outstanding, it is still worth mentioning.

Mace returns T'ra her lightsaber, which she lost during the previous battle, and a curious dialogue happens between them.

Master Saa says that the saber is just a tool that one shouldn’t get attached to. And that Mace SHOULD know that. Personally, I see this here as a direct reference to the Concordance of Fealty (which by the time of this comic has been already completed ten years earlier), and as a confirmation that T'ra Saa knows about the nature of the relationship between master Windu and master Koth.

What I think Mace’s tree mom is saying between the lines here: “you shouldn't get attached to a lightsaber. You once owned Eeth Koth’s saber, Mace, so you understand that by "lightsaber" I mean Eeth Koth himself. And you remember that attachments are still forbidden in the Jedi Order, so be careful there with your little horned husband, son."

Given that the events of this comic take place during the Clone Wars, this means that there has already happened the battle on the Petranaki Arena on Geonosis, where Eeth’s LAAT/i exploded in front of Mace’s eyes. ( This thing blowing up in aotc is the LAAT/i on which were Eeth Koth, Sora Bulq and Tarados Gon )

And perhaps he did spend too much time near the zabrak’s bacta tank afterwards and it gave birth to some rumors or concerns - and that is what T'ra Saa hints at. (also, the timeline of this comic is listed as 21 bby, which does not exclude the possibility of also the battle of Korriban already happened, where Eeth nearly died again, and even the torture of Eeth in Grievous’s hands too, which only gives Mace more reasons to go over his usual reserved boundaries in his wish to comfort and protect his beloved)

Star Wars: Episode II Attack of the Clones

A very interesting thing is in one of the deleted scenes of " Attack of the Clones”. And yes, another hint, but wait, some more interaction are coming later. And for now... I'm of course talking about this scene of the conversation between Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi before the latter's departure to Kamino. In this scene, Kenobi expresses his concern that Anakin has a strong attachment to the senator from Naboo, and this attachment may cause some troubles for him when serving his duty as a Jedi and as her guardian. And let’s try to think about the reaction of Windu himself to this statement and how we can interpretate it: 1) He is not surprised by the news on Anakin's attachment, and accepts it very calmly. 2) In this scene, it is actually Windu who calms down panicking Obi-Wan with the words "you must believe that he will make the right choice”, and not vice versa.

What can this mean?

This can mean that Mace is not only not at all shocked by Skywalker's forbidden attachment, but on the contrary, supports Anakin and gives him a chance to make the right choice. I mean, Mace doesn't judge Anakin, Mace sympathizes with the young man in love and he trusts him. It’s a fair assumption that Windu himself most likely has an experience of such a situation, to which he compares the Skywalker’s issue and makes his conclusion, isn’t it?

To sum up? In this scene, Windu may be probably recalling his own special bond with _someone_, and, drawing from it the conclusion that a Jedi CAN perfectly fulfil his duties even if he has romantic feelings, advises Obi-Wan to trust his padawan with this.

Grievous Intrigue — Star Wars: the Clone Wars 2x09

A small, but very a cute detail: in the episode when a hologram is shown to the Jedi Council, on which general Grievous tortures Eeth Koth and promises the zabrak jedi master "endless suffering” Mace Windu clenches his fists in the background.

And how much was said about the Jedi acceptance, the fortitude, the “letting go of emotions in the Force”… But what acceptance could be here when your small tender husband is being cruelly tortured with the electrostaff???

Before the holotransmition / / after the holotransmition

Star Wars: Zam Wesell

Here is a moment I spotted in this comics: when masters Rancisis and Koth both speak up during a Council meeting, Eeth is the first one Mace answers to. I know that this can seem a little bit weak as an argument but add to this THAT stare Koth gives Windu when applying for being the Alderaan guard.

Yes, exactly. THAT kind of stare right here ( ͡ ° ͜ʖ ͡ ° )

I mean, seriously, man, stop flirting with your Master of the Order husband right in the middle of the meeting! We know that on Alderaan they make one of the best sorts of wine in the whole galaxy, and you want to offer a date, but calm down a bit please, okay? You don’t want to get caught, right?)))

Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace

No, well, but there is no excuse for the fact that in the background during the scene of the Council meeting before sending Master Jinn and Padawan Kenobi to Naboo as an escort for queen Amidala, Eeth is sitting in exactly the same way in which you could see Windu sitting himself on some of the TPM photos. That's all, that’s like the final proof that Eeth is a stupid husband and in love with his partner. Because one of the forms of love language? Yes, the one with interest copying, when a person is copying the gestures, the stature and the movements of whom he’s interested in, u-hum.

Eeth really have no, NO excuse for that, I swear

Bonus: The seats on the High Council

As one very wise person on twitter had once said,

This person was referring to Plo Koon and Kit Fisto tho, but I tell you what, this also applies very much to Mace Windu and Eeth Koth. So here is Mace and Eeth on the Council staring at each other after a holotransmition!

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rangerslayer-97 · 4 years

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An Analysis of Ahsoka and Windu's Interaction in TCW Finale Season 7 Episode 11 - Why Windu's Comment is in the Right

It's been 28 days since the Clone Wars finale finished. It has been 31 days since Episode 11: Shattered aired. This was the infamous episode that had a good majority raging anger at Jedi Master/General and Council Member Mace Windu.

In the opening 5-6mins, we see the Jedi Council meeting via hologram, the scene we see taking place on Coruscant in Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of the Sith. Moments after, Ahsoka walks in with Rex. Now, this opinion might put me in the crosshairs of some people who will think differently, but I have an inkling or belief some are misinterpreting this particular scene.

Let me make it clear first: I love Ahsoka. She is one of the greatest characters brought into the Star Wars mythos by George Lucas and brought to life by Dave Filoni and voiced wonderfully by the talented Ashley Eckstein. Do you want to know how much Ahsoka Tano means to me? I wouldn't have come back and embraced Star Wars again had I not discovered her character watching random Rebels clips on YouTube which led me back to the Clone Wars ~2yrs ago.

I greatly thank Ashley Eckstein for bringing me back to the fandom. Back to the main point, separating voice actor/actress from their character. In my point of view, I'm NOT directing it at EVERYONE, but some of those who love or big fans of Ahsoka so much there's no fault in her. Her character had faults in the beginning and she's still a flawed character. Ahsoka is flawed, but so well written, she is relatable and to a certain degree, perfect. That's not what I'm on about. It's about the lash and some giving Windu the slap because of how he addresses and speaks to Ahsoka post-capture and detainment of Maul.

We all know, but to refresh some, Ahsoka Tano left the Jedi Order, this effectively removing her status as a Jedi Padawan and Commander of the 501st Legion of the Grand Army of the Republic. She chose to walk away and strip herself of everything, military rank and privileges. She is essentially a standard citizen trying to survive and make ends meet of a cruel galaxy, in a dying Galactic Republic. We are well aware, the twilight of the Republic and the Jedi was near, inevitable and unavoidable. So let me reiterate Ahsoka's stance, because this is an important point. Tano is a CITIZEN. She's a CIVILIAN.

Push forward to the Siege of Mandalore, without a doubt, some time has passed and Ahsoka's walkabout took place before the Bad Batch arc, with Republic on shaky battle grounds against the Separatists on Annaxes, which it's sitting on a major hyperspace lane direct to Coruscant (way too close for comfort).

By the time Ahsoka fills in the Council about the status of Maul and Mandalore, here comes the scene that had a lot of people running up the walls of how Windu addresses and treats Ahsoka. Let's remind ourselves of some vital quotes and points. Ahsoka was not a Jedi, she gave that up. She could have chosen to enlist directly into the GAR instead as a commissioned officer or take back her position as Commander via the GAR. Positions and military rank were given to the Jedi by their own status in the Order. Knights and Masters given General, Padawans ranked Commanders (Obi-wan an exception since he had a Clone Marshal Commander).

The Siege of Mandalore was going to be a sticky one despite success because Mandalore is a neutral planet, though it had links to the Republic, but is very much neutral. I won't go into complexities, but visit the YouTube channel Generation Tech, they did a very good exploration into it. I'll avoid politics standpoints for now.

Back to the primary point. Ahsoka stated she only fought in the siege as her duty as a citizen, but as not a Jedi.

"I did my duty as a citizen." - Ahsoka Tano

She also says prior to that statement:

"I will escort Commander Rex when he delivers him to Coruscant." - Ahsoka Tano

Finished with:

"No, not yet." - Ahsoka Tano

This is the key point here. Ahsoka is a citizen. She aided as a citizen, fought as a citizen and she is taking time out to escort Commander Rex and the 332nd back to Coruscant. After that, she would have went her separate ways (but we all know disaster strikes). To make it clear: Ahsoka Tano is a citizen who freely involved herself in what would have been a campaign, part of the Outer Rim Sieges and in extension, Jedi business.

Now, the statement Windu make upon the 'wrapping up' of the meeting.

"I'm sorry, citizen, but these are matters for the Council to discuss." - Mace Windu

And this where lovers of TCW nearly flipped the table. The scenario was read and interpreted as rude and maybe even condescending on Ahsoka, despite her service in the siege. However, I think the scene is being read incorrectly.

Ahsoka openly stated before the High Jedi Council that she is a citizen, only fought as her duty as a citizen. How often in real life do you hear a citizen involving themself in a military campaign? It's almost unheard of, but this is Star Wars and it's fiction, but there is real life influences that make logical sense.

In this case, there is without a doubt somewhere in the regulation handbook of the GAR that under any circumstances are civilians NOT to be disclosed to military information. Military information and even to involved in the Council meeting, it's something not be shared with a civilian. Sharing what is classified information is a MAJOR breach in security. I'm not saying Ahsoka is a spy (though she does become a pretty badass one one in Rebels), but because of her status as a civilian, she cannot be disclosed such information. Heck, even if the boys wanted to see her again, Ahsoka cannot walk into the Clone Barracks anymore. She probably can, unless someone escorts her, people like Rex or a fellow General such as Anakin.

We already know Windu is getting stressed by the war, almost desperate to end the war and we all know the action he takes in the film. Windu does love the Republic, if I'm correct, it was quoted in Stover's ROTS novelisation, he thought he is doing best for the Republic.

Anyways, I think there are those being too harsh on Windu. Think about it again, I'd you were in Ahsoka's shoes, a citizen after fighting in a siege, essentially part of the Clone Wars, neither you would be privy to sensitive information. Windu is stoic as it is, it's not his attitude, it's his tone that came across as condescending. He was only repeating what Ahsoka stated to them, so his mindset was: "alright, you called yourself a citizen, then you shall be treated as such". Yes, his tone might not have helped much, but he is right. Ahsoka could be disclosed what is highly sensitive and classified information. If they did, just because she used to be part of the Order, it is A MAJOR BREACH in security protocol.

To repeat: Windu is correct to tell Tano that she cannot be disclosed what goes on in a Council Meeting or the situation of the war. It is all down due her status as a citizen. It would be a different story if after leaving the Jedi, she reinstated herself by enlisting with the GAR.

Just remember that despite misgivings, Windu is a highly valued member of the Jedi Order and a highly skilled one. He is also powerful in the Force. Before the war broke out in 22 BBY, he was trained as a Jedi Guardian, up to the events of TPM, he was already a Master of the Order and even one of the best swordsman of the time. He was first taught under Grand Master Yoda, then his years as Padawan up to the Jedi Knight Trials learning under Jedi Master T'ra Saa. At a very young agree too, he discovered his rare Force ability to see shatterpoints in the Force. This skill greatly aided Windu at how hissy would his future actions, along with the vulnerability of the opponents he faced. Because of his ability in shatterpoint, Windu even had glimpses into parts of the future of how he works build his lightsaber.

Windu also created one off the most difficult lightsaber forms that the Jedi Order forbade except to even and perhaps even his own student: Master Depa Billaba. Quinlan Vos is another notable practitioner. A counteract style to Form VII: Juyo. He created Vaapad, along with another Jedi Master named Sora Bulq. Quoting Windu on his description when he created the form:

"I created Vaapad to answer my weakness: it channels my own darkness into a weapon of the light." - Mace Windu

Windu had his own struggles with the Dark Side and he channelled that into a form. To use ones own inner darkness and channel it into a weapon of the light and not even fall in the process. It's an opposite of Juyo, the style being more of a 'state of mind' and not just another fighting style. To channel their own darkness and accept the fury of an opponent whereas Juyo as described by Kreia:

"Predictably, he seeks to unbalance you with his erratic attacks. His technique is called Juyo, the most chaotic of the lightsaber forms. This form sacrifices much to bolster offense, leaving one exposed to attack by the Force." - Kreia

This post had gone on long enough, all I'm saying is to maybe read the interaction between Ahsoka and Windu a little bit differently. Windu is correct not to disclose classified information, even council information especially with her status as a civilian. Perhaps don't be quick to judge Windu or even just think twice. Sorry for the long post, but I needed to get out of my head.

#star wars #ahsoka tano #mace windu #sw tcw #long post

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