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bbq-hawks-wings · 4 years

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Really long ask - Part 1: Hi, sorry for this long rant, but I just wanted to vent since I saw this latest story posted on AO3 and I am restraining myself on commenting on their story so I'm just letting my anger out here about it and other issues regarding fan-depiction of Hawks. It's vaguely related to your post on how DabiHawks or Dabi+Hawks stories make it all about Dabi and always made Hawks out to be the one who starts the problems in their relationship or is the one trying to get Dabi's

Content warning: passing mention of r*pe in a fanfiction.

LOOOONG post under the cut.

(Cont.)

Dabi's attentions when it's canon that it's the complete opposite. This latest story that came up in my feed was about Hawks "harassing" Dabi (who apparently has a backstory of r*pe) and Twice helps Dabi works out his feelings. Among the hoards of tags condemning Hawks, they decided to use "Hawks is very uncool in this fic heads up" so that's another one to add to my filters. I think I also have to block the "Dabi Needs a Hug" tags too bc he's always woobified like heck.

I really want to read stories where Hawks interacts with Twice since they have a bond/drama with each other, but people have been adding Dabi and either making it seem like Hawks has been gaslighting Dabi in their "relationship" or with Twice. I can acknowledge stories where Hawks feels guilty for what he had to do or Twice being anger/betrayed over Hawks' actions since that is actually what happened; but I will not stand for Dabi claiming Hawks took advantage of Twice or Twice and Dabi having feelings for each other with Hawks in the way bc Dabi is a) the one who let Hawks in b) knew Twice is gullible and c) used Twice as bait. Even in the stories that are cute/causal+funny, Hawks is always the one who gets threatened with fire, harsh insults, or guilted into compliance but the seriousness of the first 2 are always brushed off and the third kinda makes me want it that Hawks doesn't have friends bc most people write him as a bad friend who only cares about his own problems (especially the ones that write Hawks like a celebrity/night club person).

On writing Dabi, his issues always take priority over everything else, his family loves him, and the lov is always chill with him. He's usually written as the fun asshole/caretaker (bc of his big brother status or ablity to cook). Those factors aren't bad by itself, but it's extremely irritating when the writers/artists can give that level of care to Dabi, but just reduce Hawks to a meme who is a workaholic for the government/scared of punishment & not bc he really cares about the people he saves/helps. It's not like I hate the DabiHawks pairing, but the majority of the content (esp the recent ones), are frustrating to read & Hawks' character is usually written in bad out of character extremes. I am really mystified that I'm praying for canon content rather than fanmade most of the time.

Phew! After the back and forth it looks like we got to the end of that! (Or did we?! *Dun dun DUUUUN*) If not, though, feel free to keep the asks rolling. Lol Foxy and I are usually pretty happy to receive as many asks as people want to send even if it takes us a while, individually, to get to it. Now to finally address what you sent.

I find myself in a weird place when it comes to OOC fanfic because on the one hand people can write whatever they want, and I don’t really have a place to criticize them; but also when they blatantly and willingly misinterpret a character so they have grounds to bash on them it also leaves me acutely uncomfortable. I don’t think I’d call it “problematic” as much as a squick? Like, if they’re willing to blow past all the obvious proof to the contrary about their claims of a fictional character just because they hate them, then are they willing to do the same thing to a real person? Usually, those kinds of thoughts are pointlessly extreme, but we know those who unironically and/or unapologeticly call fans of the heroes “bootlickers” so... It’s like, ooc vent fics are also fine; and if you want to rewrite a character to fit the narrative scheme you’ve set up that’s cool as long as its tagged (“ooc [character]” or something) and/or just mention in the a/n that they knowingly and willingly mischaracterized them for the sake of the fic. Just. Don’t. Claim. It’s. Canon.

And speaking of canon, as much as I’m sure Horikoshi knew Hawks and Dabi were going to end up shipped I think it’s obvious that he never was going to canonically write them ending up together, yet here comes the “canon must validate my headcanon” crowd calling him a bad writer because the author had some bigger narrative goal in mind than having two pretty anime boys kissing.

And the worst part to me is, I feel there’s a distinct slice of the DabiHawks crowd missing out on some of the possibilities of this ship by intentionally mischaracterizing them. Like, the aesthetic equal/opposite draw of the ship is phenomenal as it is and I don’t even ship them, but I can see a wide range of possible fics based solely on the principle that they are canonically incompatible!

At the end of the day, Dabi is a dime-a-dozen edgelord - that pain in the butt OC that so many newbie D&D players make that they think is so deep and dark and mature, but is about as cookie-cutter as they come. It’s not that this kind of character is unsalvageable or a hopeless Gary Stu character, just that they don’t often come across as compelling in and of themselves or that they need more than just selfish hatred to carry them through a series. Two kinds of edgelords that can be done well are the “Out of the Ashes” edgelord and “I’ll Pull You Into Hell With Me” edgelord. The first kind recognizes there’s more to life than their sad backstory and getting even and thus choose to aspire to more noble causes - think Joel from The Last of Us. The second recognizes they’re actively doing wrong and come to embrace it - being more concerned with getting what they want than taking the moral high ground - think Frank Castle, aka the Punisher - and even these darker, “unsaveable” kinds of edgelord antiheroes can have redeeming qualities such as meeting and helping a young hopeful and telling them, “I know I’m on the road to hell, so if you want to save yourself you’d better not follow me.”

Dabi actually has what he needs to become the second type right now (assuming he’s Touya) and could even evolve into the first not unlike Kratos from God of War, but that potential can’t be fully recognized until you admit that he’s fundamentally self-centered and a bad person as-is. He may have the tragic backstory complete with justifiable hate at his genuinely abusive father, but rather than using that as fuel to see that never happen to anyone else like it did him - he just wants to get even. He burns people alive, knowing well he’s participating in the same destruction that his father committed to make him what he is now. He doesn’t recognize any of the merits of hero society and is only concerned with burning it to ash. He could use what happened to his family to incite compassion in his heart and take others under his wing, but instead he uses people as a mean to his own ends. He isn’t even proper grimdark - he’s just your run of the mill egotistical megalomaniac with a punk aesthetic.

And that’s still a good character in the grand scheme of things, maybe just not alone! Moreso, it’s a good villain and EVEN BETTER when you put him next to Hawks who is at his core:

Fundamentally Hopepunk!

Hopepunk is about being good and kind as an act of rebellion against a cruel and unfair world no matter how bleak it gets or how badly you’re beaten down. Despite his own cruel past, Hawks still has a heart to help others for no other reason than to help them, he constantly changes the odds to save as many people as he can when he’d be given a pass for letting the cards fall where they will, and not only is his aim to “help others” but to make sure that there’ll never be need for heroes again. He’s an active rebel against the system fighting with kindness and goodness, fervently looking and listening for the next opportunity to do good.

In agreement with you, Hawks and Twice are interesting to explore because while Twice is an optimist looking to make the world a better place, he’s still a step or two removed from Hawks’ worldview because Twice refuses to let go of the “family” he found for himself while Hawks is willing to sacrifice himself for others. That dynamic is so interesting, and it’s what made them so initially compatible and subsequently heartbreaking in canon.

And it’s such a disappointment to see this unwaveringly earnest character reduced to “shitty fratboy” so often. For a lot of people newer to his character I can understand the confusion, but there really isn’t an excuse if you’ve been reading the series, and the possibilities for fics with this canon personality are just so much more interesting to explore, especially with Dabi as his sort-of opposite.

For DabiHawks to work well, you have to recognize that something has to give in either of them. Some of the juiciest, most angsty content is when you have two characters grow close together over commonalities only to be reminded that despite everything else they share, that One Thing will always keep them from truly being able to see eye-to-eye. Either Dabi has to grow past his hatred and relearn compassion and empathy, or Hawks has to lose grip of that hopeful vision he has and fall into despair. Both options are good to explore, but both require the acknowledgement that Dabi’s view of the world is fundamentally bleak and selfish, especially compared to Hawks’. For a supposed revolutionary out to change the world for the better whose a diamond in the rough with a heart of gold, that’s not exactly on-brand; and at the end of the day the issue is that some are unwilling to admit that what they wanted Dabi to be is likely not going to happen and they love that fake version Dabi more than they love what Hawks actually stands for which is why Hawks always gets the shaft in the end.

I still personally hold a bit of a grudge against the DaiHawks ship as a whole purely because, as you said, Dabi always seems to take priority over Hawks instead of letting the two build a dynamic together. Hawks is always the one who has to give, and the torture porn some have made him go through to “make the ship work” is downright disturbing to me. Even at its height DabiHawks content completely flooded the Hawks character tags on Tumblr with some of the same problems that have persisted to this day such as emphasizing their aesthetic as opposed to their dynamic and rampant mischaracterization.

Anyway, that’s my long-winded response. What do you think, @autumn-foxfire?

#long post anon #autumn-foxfire #let's talk hawks

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merry-melody · 6 years

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ship meme 3. Alisha/Curtis Underappreciated in their own time, tbh.

I go into in this in the Nathan/Kelly post, but Misfits placed a high premium on sexual compatibility, but in doing so, it did kinda disregard character development.

Here, you have a pairing of two fairly harmonious personalities (both have similar interests, and their flaws and gifts are fairly similar – they’re dismissive, and a little vain; but they’re also softer than they appear.

Where Curtis puts his self-esteem into running, Alisha does in her sexual attractiveness; but while Curtis gradually learns to value other things, Alisha’s character arc kind of trails off.)

While they can’t have sex, they seemed to have found some degree of intimacy that meant more to them both than being apart (Curtis could have left her for Sam, who he could still touch, for example) and who found ways to be affectionate – which is, interestingly, something Simon and Alisha never did.

Where Curtis and Alisha have these moments like touching hands through glass, or blowing on her eyelashes, or her sitting around his clothed legs; in the episode where Simon and Alisha are dating prior to her power’s removal, they’re shown as struggling with the separation, and he visibly cringes if she reaches out to him.

There’s weak spots, absolutely (the gross rape-y issue in 1x3 and how it’s basically resolved by Curtis admitting that he does have feelings for her, so she doesn’t ‘have to’ force him; and how Alisha’s sexuality is generally performative, with these long camera gazes from Curtis’ POV of her stripping or her arse as she walks) but it’s the longest running relationship on the show, and it seems like both of their character development regressed a little in order to further Simon/Alisha.

So where it appears they’d evolved into characters with a genuine connection; this gets deconstructed in favour of Curtis suddenly needing to be with a girl he could touch (one that Superhoodie is manipulating him into meeting so that he can be distracted from Alisha) and Alisha making Curtis the bad guy so that she can dump him guilt-free. (Not just by manoeuvring him into an argument in 2x3 so she can visit Simon, but also glibly making it an empowerment issue: ‘Since when do you tell me what I can and can’t do?’ which of course is exactly what she’s letting Future Simon do, who urges her to string along Curtis and to lie to her friends.)

It also reflects on her previous behaviour and how much her personality is rewritten in order to further the subplot – where she’s ‘turned off’ by Curtis in 1x4 cryptically promising her ‘we (have sex in the future)’, the same vow from Simon now persuades her.

This continues in S3 (where interestingly, Nikki, like Nathan, is forgotten – if you watched these episodes without having seen S2, you’d assume that she never existed, whereas Curtis/Alisha’s past is referred to regularly) where Curtis has become the guy who needs to learn how to treat women (which chafes a little, considering that Simon, Nathan and Rudy all had far more blatantly sexist attitudes) and Simon in comparison is lauded as the superior lover.

What is refreshing is that there seems to be no ceasing in Curtis and Alisha’s friendship – Simon/Kelly had a sweet relationship in the first two seasons that got phased out as he became less vulnerable and paired off with Alisha; and it would have sucked if they’d forced a ‘Simon and Curtis are now bros because they’re the only two original dudes!’ or something.

(I’d have loved a Kelly/Alisha friendship, but I could see how those two might not have tons in common, although that’s no excuse for how often the show fails the Bechdel test in the rare occasions when they did have two female characters onscreen.)

So what’s neat is that Curtis and Alisha, even after splitting, do seem to still have the most similar reactions (they’re working together at a bar in 2x7; they’re both disgusted by Nathan, and recalling the nudes Alisha’s sent Curtis in 2x6; in S3 they’re often playing foosball together.)

Tbh, I think it just comes down to differences Overman and I have – the plan for Alisha was apparently always to meet a guy she could sleep with, it was only realising the Superhoodie plot could be combined with the ‘lucky guy’ role that led to the pairing; whereas, while there’s no resolution to Alisha’s character that wouldn’t be reductive, starting from such a misogynistic premise; it seems there was never much interest for Overman in developing her outside of her love life (similiarly, he seemed to have run out of ideas for Curtis very swiftly beyond 1x4.)

Like to me, at least Curtis and Alisha had some clear boundaries within their relationship: they agreed together to date exclusively, and he didn’t seem to judge her on her sexual past.

(Neither did Simon, but it does seem like an issue that when they became a serious pairing, there has to be an inevitable scene where she has to mention how ashamed she is of her promiscuity; and similiarly, him being inexperienced sexually has to be presented as laughable, lest we forget traditional gender roles.

Which is a shame, because Curtis and even Nathan were able to engage in relationships where it’s a non-issue: Emma in 3x3 is bi and sleeps with Curtis in both his female and male forms. Likewise, Nathan doesn’t view Kelly’s relative inexperience (‘practically a virgin, I respect that!’) as a negative anymore than Marnie’s promiscuity.)

Neither were afraid to confront each other, despite their growing feelings (Curtis calls out Alisha on her ‘light homophobia’, likewise Alisha’s quick to bite back (‘Fuck off!’) whereas Simon and Alisha relied on manipulation over honesty, and seemed to view each other as idols (where Curtis actually analyses Alisha easily: ‘You think because you’re beautiful, you can do whatever you like!’, Simon is almost frightened of her, rarely confronts her and seems to value her beauty as the true indication of her character.

The beautiful girls speech to me is hilarious, as Simon’s doing exactly what he’s criticising: not looking below the surface. Alisha’s actually making an honest effort for once and self-reflecting, hence her shame when he asks ‘Why are you being so nice?’ and instead of meeting this with any kind of reply that takes into account their personal history like ‘Well, we’re all friends now’ or ‘I don’t hold a grudge’ or ‘You were just guarded’ or whatever, he basically says ‘You can’t be a bitch, you’re beautiful, so there’s more to you.’)

Even under the powers, Simon comes out with objectifying stuff that could be said to any girl, Curtis’ is specific to Alisha: ‘I think about you all the time.’

I didn’t particularly ship Curtis/Alisha when watching the show, and they perhaps got benefit from it being in it’s heyday in S1 and early S2, during the time they were paired; but on reflecting, taking a tip from them would have aided S/A hugely, particularly as that plot ended up affecting so much of the show.

#misfits #meta #misfits ship meme #nathan stewart-jarrett #curtis donovan #alisha x curtis #alisha daniels #antonia thomas #alisha x simon is the worst #e2.2 #e2.6 #e2.1 #e1.5 #misfits extras #misfits meme #misfits meta #misfits tv #not mine: gifs

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