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katapotato55 · 8 months

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a list of things to consider when Deltarune ch 3-5 drops

its almost undertale's anniversary, how about i make a nice little refresher of major things that will more than likely be addressed in the next few chapters shal we? These are kiiiiiinda maybe guaranteed with ch 3-5 but who knows, toby fox might pull a 180 with the writing.

- the hell is going to happen to berdly? is he dead? is he fallen? if he is dead, will he dust like in undertale or are the rules different in this universe? is this just a weird magic coma?

-Noelle's mental state in both snowgrave and pacifist timelines.

- the fact Kris just kinda robbed a public library. as more and more dark worlds will open between chapters, there is going to be more places available. will people notice the little munchkin committing low stakes robbery? -Is Kris going to drag shit from their house to the dark world at the school ? ? ? will Toriel notice???

- Dark worlds at night. there was foreshadowing by Seam. this might get interesting.

- Mettaton asking you to give them something entertaining because it is boring. -whatever the hell Onion San is on about.

- the guy who tells you to practice your knocking.

-the fuck is toriel going to react to ralsei?

-the fact that it is implied that dark worlds are a representation of the struggles of the lightners, ch 3 will absolutely give us a LOT of context about kris and toriel's life. At LEAST Toriel's life at the bare minimum.

-The object inside of Asriel's dresser that depends on what save slot you have. you just turned the house into a dark world, something very very interesting™ is going to happen IF it is possible to go up there. -Toriel's reaction to the magic teas. (possibly) -the next secret boss and egg location. (can't forget!)

-"Mike" and "Tenna". unpopular opinion: i do not care who mike is. Everyone is getting all excited and speculative and i am just like "oh ok neat". If he is a secret boss: neat! why not! I don't have strong opinions on them sorry lol.

-What is the "Weird path" for this chapter and the other two chapters? what the hell is the player going to be able to do to Toriel? what are the implications of the weird paths for Kris? will there even be a weird path for the upcoming chapters?

-"The entirety of Undertale takes place within Toriel's kitchen". (is link to a reddit theory). Undertale? at this time of year at this time of day localized entirely within your kitchen? jokes aside: Ch 3 will more than likely confirm or deny this theory being true. And if this theory IS true i am going. to flip. my shit. a part of me wants it to be dis-proven because I love undertale and I feel like the implications could cheapen the story. Also I hate ANY notion of chara being related to deltarune because I want this to be a unique story on the other hand THE IMPLICATIONS HOLEY SHIT. this is going to be an interesting one.

-Suzie Godzilla. "uh Kat you don't know for sure this is going to- " it's going to happen.

-Confirming or Denying "chess theory". Personally I have no strong opinions on chess theory, the chess theory just kinda seems like a neat easter egg if it were proven true. -Possibly confirming or denying "universal mother theory" or adding onto it. there is a video on you tube about it. A part of me likes the idea that the Antagonists of each dark world can apply to any none, but idk.

Things I want to see but is more than likely not guaranteed to happen

-Ralsei and Kris character development

-more information on Asriel.

-honestly just more information on who Kris is as a person and learning more about them.

-how Kris REALLY feels about berdly.

-and Noelle why not.

-Why Kris (or whoever the fuck is causing kris to act like this) opened a fucking dark fountain. there are many reasons against kris being the knight, the biggest one being how the hell did a dark fountain open while Berdly and Noelle were at the library, while kris was still at school for example. but regardless if Kris is the knight or not, why the hell would Kris start a dark fountain after the snowgrave incident? and if Kris isn't doing that, then who is doing it and why??

-SAN'S FUCKING BROTHER PLEASE LET ME SEE PAPYRUS. the only reason this is in "might not happen" is because i can see toby fox making us wait until the end of the game to see paps or something.

-ANYTHING involving Asgore and what happened in his job and the divorce

-hints about Des? maybe?

-How kris feels about the player (especially if it considers the players past actions to Kris's response. ).

-Or hell more information on if the player is a character in this story. Is the player the soul ? is Kris the soul ? Its unlikely because there are many points proven that you are making Kris do things they do not like, but the "ripping out the soul" shenanigans are also too fishy to make sense.

#deltarune #deltarune chapter 3 #deltarune theory #deltarune kris #deltarune noelle #deltarune toriel #deltarune asgore

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computerything · 10 months

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Deltarune newsletter arrived, hell yeah! Here's my thoughts and analysis.

So uh, TV world is pretty much 100% confirmed from this image.

Apparently Ch.3 will be weird as fuck and just kind of silly gameplay-focused shenanigans, that's cool. Chances are it isn't releasing until 2024 or so; it's stated that they're currently working on the sort of castle part of the chapter. But who knows...?

I can't wait to see everyone's fan designs for Mike and Tenna absolutely vaporized when it finally releases though, lol.

Also, Sans and Papyrus have been hinted to be from the DR universe in the Papyrus qna section, something the entire fandom is currently going BERSERK over.

There's also a strange recurring theme of cantaloupes? Susie is seen gnawing on one and Ralsei is seen with one in place of his head. Huh...

You better have subscribed to the newsletter. If you haven't, you'll never hear the "factory of squeaky hammers bonking dogs" song demo.

#utdr newsletter #deltarune #toby fox

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cherryistired · 2 years

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so i've been thinking (a dangerous thing to do), and. i don't even know how to preface this. deltarune is good

okay this got long. uhhh have some musings and light theory crafting about dark worlds, time, timelines, and jevil & spamton. dropping it under the cut but basically

i think there was a timeline where jevil & spamton were never contacted by gaster.

i don't think it was confirmed until chapter 2, but I always headcanoned that the dark worlds were a little paradoxical: before their fountains were created, they didn't exist, but after, they always have existed. i was already familiar with the "world being created as having always existed" idea because of. uh. other work that toby's done music for. so it really made the most sense to me

the first piece of evidence were the timelines of the ch 1 dark worlds, cause they're a little wonky. both talk about having existed for a while (ralsei being alone for a long time, all the kings having ruled before the spade king overthrew them, the general vibe of a sense of normalcy having been upended by the arrival of the knight), but at the same time, the longer they existed before the game, the more likely someone would have discovered it before the events of the game

chapter 2 basically confirms this though. king spade clearly knows queen, but he only talks about her after the fountain in the library is opened (and subsequently closed). there's evidence that the fountain was literally opened on the walk between castle town/the school and the library (berdly and noelle had their books open when the fountain was closed vs kris and susie just walking in, and ralsei would have absolutely said something if he knew there was another fountain open)

the fact that king spade knows queen is particularly interesting to me. I can't remember any other characters (aside from jevil) who know of anyone from cyber city, so i'm basing this off king spade alone, but he seems to only remember queen after that dark fountain was opened

all this to say that dark fountains can definitely alter time, at least when it comes to dark worlds. they can write histories for their own worlds and alter the histories of others. and that's fascinating! especially because of jevil.

how did jevil know about queen before she existed?

queen's world was made the day after the fountain in the spare room closed. hell, why does spamton know mike???? assuming he's the chapter 3 villain, kris literally opened that fountain on screen after the library's dark fountain was closed. both of them know about characters that straight up do not exist

and also, gaster's interference with the plot happened in the past, before the dark worlds existed. like. how??? did that happen??? how did gaster manage to write himself into the dark world's history before anyone outside the dark world could even enter it?

(i don't think i can fit this in neatly anywhere else but i find the time loop theory extremely compelling. it's a little unrelated but i wanted to mention it)

like undertale, saving & loading are diegetic in deltarune. it's a literal thing that exists in universe and can be done by characters. flowey does it multiple times, and it's implied that kris could do it before we took control of their save

however! saving & loading seem to function differently in the two games. in undertale, it was just "the most determined person controlled the save file", and there was only 1. in deltarune, it's different

within the individual worlds of deltarune, it probably funtions similarly, though it doesn't seem to be powered by determination. kris likely only has access to one save file. but we have access to three. and the different save files are textually different timelines we have control over. that control is likely granted to us through gaster or chara/the third person though

(side note: there does seem to be a third player in this. the dialogue change when your vessel gets thrown away has been widely discussed, but there's another incident of this too. when playing through chapter 1, you get an entirely different save file menu than you do after beating it. it looks completely different (no music, no background, just a black and green screen), and the text for saving, loading, deleting, and starting new games is completely different. the pre-beating menu's text sounds a lot like gaster, whereas post-beating doesn't)

i can't even begin to guess why. i've always felt like it was some kind of experiment. something about giving the player the ability to reset over and over, as well as giving us access to three separate timelines feels like. idk. repeating and iterating on experiments to test a hypothesis. that's a lot of speculation though

what i find really interesting is that, with deltarune, we now have two separate things that interact with time in unique ways. there's the save files, who's effects are well known, and the dark worlds, who's effects aren't known, or at least not well understood

and, going back to that bit of speculation, if gaster is running some kind of experiment, it's probably going to include dark worlds in some way:

what happens when you expose a darkner to the realities of not only their world, but the light world, and the world beyond that?

i'm having trouble coming up with a good transition again bear with me

i mentioned earlier that gaster told them about. whatever he told them (i don't like the "he told them it was a game" theory) in the past. the past that was created when the dark fountains were opened. i don't actually think that's the case. i don't want to assume gaster has the ability to just. write himself into their history like that

instead, i think that gaster told them after the fountains were opened at some point. likely with the aid of the player. and then?

we know that dark fountains have the ability to alter time. even more interestingly, we know that shadow crystals can cross timelines. if you beat jevil in one of your ch 1 save files, you'll get a shadow crystal (and his other drop) in chapter 2 whether or not you load that save! whether that's because of the fountains themselves or because of the exposure to gaster is hard to say, though, but it does mean that jevil (& likely spamton) interact with alternate timelines in a unique way

what i think happened is: gaster told them about [[whatever he said]]. then, during the next time loop/save file/reset/whatever, the knowledge they gained carried over into the next run and literally changed their history. this time, gaster didn't need to show up after the fountain was opened because he'd already been there

this all sounds far fetched, but consider: jevil and spamton both know of characters that literally didn't exist yet. how would they know about them unless they'd encountered them before? during, for instance, a previous run?

of course, this implies a timeline where jevil & spamton never met gaster, or at least didn't meet him before the events of the game. i'm not sure this timeline exists anymore; dark fountains can change the past, and shadow crystals show up in alternate timelines, so the knowledge and the resets could easily have overwritten every single timeline. still, i wonder what it would have been like...

...i really hope i'm not the first person to think about this. i would like to consume gaster-free jevil & spamton content without having to make it myself

#deltarune #dr #deltarune thoughts #jevil #spamton #utdr #cherry rambles #blease. if you know of this content. please send it to me #i'm obsessed

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amaranthineoceans · 3 years

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Everything Weird About Deltarune!

Spoiler Warning for Undertale and Both Chapters of Deltarune! Really! I Literally Go Through Everything I Can Remember About Them!

This is a long post so get comfortable. Also note that my brain doesn't process thoughts into words very well so some of these might not be worded in the best way. :)

Deltarune. The first teaser chapter was released on October 31, 2018, and it came out of nowhere. We've all gone through this, but I'll try and go through every single painstaking detail I can remember. Feel free to reblog and add/correct things.

The weirdness begins right off the bat. The title is an anagram of UNDERTALE. We all know Toby likes to use anagrams when he wants to indirectly tell us when things are related, so it's no surprise that when you go to download DELTARUNE, it warns you that the game is designed for people who have played UNDERTALE. You think, "Cool, so it's a sequel? Or maybe a prequel? A different perspective of UNDERTALE perhaps?" You were wrong; so terribly, terribly wrong! I'll elaborate on this later.

Before you download the application, the terms of service that you must agree to beforehand reads simply and plainly, "You accept everything that will happen from now on." This detail was kinda brushed off in the beginning, because, hey, it's Toby Fox. He does weird stuff all the time. But even in the first chapter, it's apparent that the concept of choice, or more accurately, the lack of it, is a very present theme in the game. I would like to remind you that Toby has announced that there will be one ending in the game. One. I'll elaborate on this later.

The program (as in, what the game is called in your files) is named SURVEY PROGRAM. Why not just call it Deltarune like it is when you download chapter two?

The game launches you, without a title screen, without any setting adjustment options, straight into a reference to the theme of the entire franchise: the lack of choice. A strange formless voice guides you through "making a vessel", with what we know now as a fountain in the background. You have the option to make some very disturbing choices in this character creator, such as making its favorite flavor "pain" or expressing your feelings about it with options such as "fear" and "disgust." You name your "creation," tell the formless voice your name (which is different from your vessel's name) and watch as said formless voice muses over your name at an agonizing pace. It thanks you for your time and tells you that your wonderful creation, (cue music cutout and background removal) will now be discarded. "No one can choose who they are in this world." The screen slowly turns white as the voice says, "Your... name... is..."

It gets weirder. The next scene appears from the whiteness and showcases Toriel calling "Kris" out of bed. Kris' area of the room is very bare in contrast to the other side, which we later discover is Asriel's.

It's Toriel. Why is Toriel here?

Kris is kind of an anagram of Frisk (the protagonist of UNDERTALE) but without the F. I highly doubt this is a coincidence.

Speaking with Noelle is the only reason you can proceed (see what i did there?) while finding a partner in the classroom. This means you can't go through the 1st chapter without knowing who she is. Is it because of the Snowgrave route?

Ralsei is just suspicious to me. There's no way he was just waiting in that castle his whole life alone without some mental toil. So either he's insane or he wasn't alone the whole time. What happened? Is it related to how he can close his eyes and see what Susie is going through when she's apart from the party? Was he just watching everything? Is he related to the formless voice?

Susie's icon is the only one without color in the Dark World.

Jevil's fight is more difficult than Sans'.

Your actions have little consequence in the first chapter. If you choose to go genocide, the only difference in the ending is being run out of the kingdom, and this doesn't carry over to the next chapter. Again, lack of choice, people.

If at the end of chapter one, you walk around town, it's mentioned (notably by Noelle) that you're usually not this talkative. If you go to the hospital and speak with the receptionist, they mention that you used to play the piano in the corner. If you decide to attempt to play the said piano, an out-of-key bash can be heard and the receptionist comments on how you used to play beautifully. If you try this in chapter two, the result is the same. All this is confirmation that Kris is acting noticeably weird.

When you leave the Dark World and walk around town, you can find Sans. He "pretends" to recognize you, and if you tell him you recognize him, he tells you it's funny, considering that you two have never met before. He winks. I'm pretty sure he knows that the player is there.

The mention of Papyrus in both games, but the purposeful lack of him. Like he's avoiding you.

If you go upstairs while inside Asgore's flower shop, there are flowers in glass cases resembling his SOUL collection in UNDERTALE. There's a red flower.

You can't enter the church.

The clock in the storage closet shows a different time than all the others in the school.

If you go all the way south in town and into the woods, the music stops and you come across a rusty, double door is in a hill covered in crass. It's locked. If you go this way in chapter two, however, you watch a cutscene where you and susie happen to find Monster Kid from UNDERTALE (or someone resembling them) and an owl kid in front of the door. The owl kid is pressuring Monster Kid to (presumably) break inside, telling them that they don't want to be a wimp like Kris. Does this imply that Kris is connected to this strange door somehow?

The ending. You know what I'm talking about.

Did Kris actually rip out the SOUL (I say "the" because I'm not entirely sure it's Kris') and knife because they wanted to eat the pie? Did they only eat the pie because Toriel caught them?

Why did they look at the player? Are they sick of being controlled? Is that why they freaked out after the Spamton fight? (later)

Anyway, now we're at chapter two.

DELTARUNE Chapter Two was released on September 17th, 2021. 17. Entry Number 17. Sound familiar?

Asriel's part of the room is different from the last chapter. I don't think this means anything sinister, but I think it means Kris notices different things about the room as the story progresses. My theory is that it will become more sinister in each chapter.

Ralsei getting super excited to see Susie and Kris after a day. As in he has separation anxiety and it breaks my heart. not anything suspicious but it makes me sad so it's on the list.

Kris and Susie's rooms. Ralsei REALLY doesn't want them to leave. Seriously get this boy a therapist. Or a stuffed animal. SOMETHING.

Kris having to gather everything from the storage closet so that people appear in the Dark World????? Why??????????????? They had to do the same thing for the computer lab too.

The golden door. I don't trust it.

How/why the heck did Noelle and Berdley go into the Computer Lab Dark World? I don't see either of them just walking into pulsing void doors without Susie.

Apparently the knight has been gone for a bit and can corrupt people's minds? The king in the first chapter doesn't seem like he can be redeemed but Queen just seems,,, not bad, but a little crazy. I wonder what happened.

Then again, name ONE person in this franchise without trauma.

Spamton.

Horror doesn't bother me. Spamton? Spamton bothers me.

SPAMTON. ENOUGH SAID.

A Kromer is a type of hat invented in the '70s. Nobody named Mike is associated with it, that I can find.

SPAMPTON. HOW DO I EVEN DESCRIBE IT.

HIS SONG IS THE ONLY ONE WITH WORDS.

The way he asks Kris is they want to be a heart on a chain their whole life. Like, dude, no wonder they were screaming after the fight.

WHERE DID THE YELLOW HEART COME FROM. YELLOW MEANS JUSTICE. WHY DOES JUSTICE APPLY.

Kris screaming after the fight and the player not being able to hear it. Don't you dare tell me that's just how the game is designed. There are sound effects characters make throughout the game. None that I can think of apply to Kris, apart from when they rip their soul out.

Ralsei brushing off the Spamton fight. Either that's his coping mechanism or he was trying to shut Susie and Kris up to protect them from... something. I'll touch on that in a minute.

According to Queen, DETERMINATION is a key factor in creating a fountain.

Also according to Queen, Kris, Noelle, and Susie all have DETERMINATION SOULS.

Ralsei freaking out about Berdley making a fountain implies that he may also have DETERMINATION. Why I'm bringing all this up will make sense soon.

How was Noelle able to cast Snowgrave... a spell that she, according to her, didn't know?

The Snowgrave route is so twisted.

You manipulate Noelle into killing Berdley and then, when you get back to the computer lab and investigate his corpse, the text box says that he doesn't seem to be awake. As if you're in denial?

Burgerpants recognizes you. Not Kris. As in the player.

The ending. I don't think I need to describe it. Kris is very methodical without the SOUL. (I say "the" because, again, I'm not 100% convinced it's theirs.) I'm saying this about how they left clues that someone broke into the This proves that they are NOT a mindless, vengeful husk.

HOW DID THEY MAKE THE FOUNTAIN WITHOUT THE SOUL INSIDE OF THEM. DID THEY FEED THE SOUL TO IT AFTERWARDS? IS THAT WHAT THAT WAS?

Another point I would like to make is my theory that Ralsei knows much more than he would have us believe. I might put this into a different post because I have yet to gather my points into a coherent bullet point list, so keep an eye out for that.

Anyway apart from Toriel and Susie being VERY heavy sleepers, I think I've gone through everything. I have a few theories.

1. Kris is possessed by the player and figured out that they could make a fountain from Queen and related to Spamton freaking out about freedom. They then decided to make a fountain going by the logic that "this would tick the player off." This is one of my top theories that assumes that the SOUL is theirs.

And 2. Kris is possessed by both the player and the knight. I think the formless voice at the very beginning of the game is the knight, and they somehow needed the player to possess someone with DETERMINATION. If so, then why Kris? We know from Queen that Noelle and Susie, and maybe even Berdley also have DETERMINATION. The most plausible thing I can think of is the fact that human souls are stronger than monster ones.

I do think that the popular theory (about the one that suggests that the Dark Word is nothing but a figment of a child's imagination, and the events that occur in said Dark World are simply children playing with toys) has been thoroughly dashed due to Berdley's murder in the genocide route of the second chapter. Unless he's not dead. Regardless, how the events (or lack thereof) that occur in the second chapter play through the next will be interesting, especially considering Toby's announcement about how there will be one ending to the game. So either Berdley isn't dead, or he will be.

Aaaand I think that's it! Sorry for the long post; let me know your thoughts and if I missed anything!

#deltarune #deltarune chapter 2 #deltarune theory #deltarune theories #deltarune chapter two theory #deltarune chapter two theories #snowgrave #pipis route #deltarune snowgrave #video games #indie game #deltarune spoilers #ralsei #kris #susie #undertale #sans

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