#seraphina ruminates over V9

[onewomancitadel]

Am sorry if am emotionally insensible however I do think it would be really funny if the last thing I were ever right about in RWBY were Raven's return. Take that Jung and eat it

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #raven anabasis theory

[onewomancitadel]

The Runaway Bunny by Margaret Wise Brown

“Shucks,” said the bunny, “I might just as well stay where I am and be your little bunny.”

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #I just had to make it #ruby rose #summer rose #risen and fallen moon #I don't know! it just came over me #I know the Hound isn't Summer it's just outright stated she is some sort of Grimm-human abomination. and that's the point.

[onewomancitadel]

There's very real evidence of V9 being compromised through external interference - that is, we categorically know the volume was shorter than usual (this is not speculation) - and I think it is on those grounds not unwise to cast a similar assumption about what they decided to include versus what they decided to exclude versus past assumptions you can made about narrative intentions earlier in the show. It's undeniable RWBY evolved after its creator passed - I don't think anybody is disputing that - but my thesis is generally that the really big things generally contended by certain segments of the audience being spontaneous invention are not so (and besides you can't really say what the show would or wouldn't have become).

I think you can equally say romantic ship baiting with Blake-Sun was both a product of trying to hedge interest (audiences love partisan shipping) as well as toying with expectations (for good or ill). This is the same thought I applied to the Jaune-Weiss interactions in V9 (particularly coupled with the retread of Jaune getting what he wanted in early Beacon era and it not being what he wants) but there is the very real thought that the out-of-nowhereness of Jaune/Weiss in V9 - whether you think WK is a canon ship or not means absolutely nothing to me, I am judging by material content in which there had been literally nothing for years, and what little there had been was never acknowledged - was specifically included to draw back a Beacon era audience. I don't know whether this means the narrative intentions of the show are fundamentally compromised in some way, that is, whatever they were setting up before has been exchanged for whatever seems like might draw audiences in.

I really did think a Blake/Yang kiss would be a turning point in the story, that is it's going to be the first True Love's Kiss, but I think it's telling that a chief complaint about the show through V8 was that they had not kissed yet. If it were both going to potentially be the last volume made and they were trying to please a captive audience, that's pretty much how you do it. That's not to say I thought the kiss was out of place but if I am casting a critical eye of what they did or didn't include I am thinking about, say, the first four meandering episodes of hijinks which weren't relief from V8 but instead a complete tonal sharp left to the point it felt like they were embarrassed about where they had left off. All tension had completely been gutted from the story. If you're trying to attract an audience who enjoy friendship and hijinks, then, well, viewer retention is strongest at the beginning and end of a volume, then you pepper in elements at the midpoint to make people talk (twist, shipbait, kiss).

I have remarked on this recently but it felt like there were two Volume 9s happening at the same time. It felt chimaeric and probably suggestive of intensive rewrites and compromises. One is the thread of Ruby-Jaune disillusionment/Summer Rose/Raven/Meeting with the Goddess story and then the other is team RWBY camp. These didn't feel like blended elements - which I think the show can successfully do. The question is whether you can then leap to assume that this was cynically intentioned. I think the very likely possibility is that it was, because you can still write an enjoyable team narrative without tapping into something twee. The stakes in the story were compromised and it didn't make up for the fact it was divorced from the material plot in Remnant (even if it did reprise the cosmic Ozlem plot later) because up until Jaune joins the narrative again, Ruby's slow meltdown in the background is almost entirely shrouded and the conflict with her team is essentially absent until EP6. Had the writing been stronger with her team, the issue of her isolation wouldn't be as much of a problem, because I imagine that was very intentionally meant to play off of the Cinder-Salem empathetic experience.

Point being is that I cast scrutiny on V9 much more than I did before (when I had begun to assume I was just plain wrong about the show) and if the show gets renewed then I am still going to be doubtful. The decisions they made with V9 didn't work. The shorter volumes and compromised denouement didn't work (why are streaming services so dumb? If you cut funding for the ending of course people aren't going to give a fucking shit). Nobody cares enough about Jaune-Weiss shipbaiting to support the show - in fact I'd say I don't think there is any ship fanbase whom you ever ought to cater to, or is significant enough to compromise your story over. Anybody who says otherwise is delusional. The casual audience who cares about romance is significant but it's not enough to make them support new shows, and more importantly us fanatics are in the minority, and of us fanatics, we're divided as it is. If they get to make V10, are we going to see RWBY-RWBY or are we going to see 'please watch our show' RWBY? The issue is that the landscape of funding shows is so different now and so is RT's general funding offset for the show, so we're not talking about the same thing anymore that we were around V3-V4 era.

I personally do not want to watch 'please watch our show' RWBY. I want to watch RWBY-RWBY, and yes, I realise this is the plea of the aggrieved RWBY fan. I know, when V3 came out, the fighting scenes were different. But the writing was not compromised because it was the same writers working on the show with Monty and his ideas were embedded into the show. Maybe he understood Jung better than some of them, I don't know and I can't say. But I have generally contended that the implicit tone of the show and flagged ending is heavily dependent on its conscious draw from the monomyth. Maybe, yes, these issues apparent with V9 go back. V6 had lampshading about 'staying in the house'. There are in-jokes in the show of mentioning ship names fans came up with. But I don't think at any point I would say that they have specifically compromised major narrative beats or overall character dynamics to poach an audience. I roll my eyes at these points, but because I am a tolerant and judicious dictator, I mostly forgive it.

Further, I personally did not enjoy a lot of V9. There were moments of greatness (Ruby, Jaune, Summer, Raven) which was the show I recognised. I genuinely, ecstatically love V8 and will often find myself going back to watch an episode and then have to sit down for the whole volume again. I don't mean 'wow I love this character or that or this particular moment', I mean I think V8 is genuinely very, very good, and I love it as a complete narrative product. So then what am I do to about V10? Because at this point, if the show even gets renewed, do I sit down for another V9? Is all my previous speculation mostly for naught?

It depends whether you take what was shown at RTX last year as canon (I would personally) if it opens V10, because in that case #raven anabasis theory, at least the fundamental point - Raven returns, redeems herself, with the children - then that is a major narrative beat I was correct about. I was correct that Raven was the last person who saw Summer before her disappearance and the general tenor of their relationship was exactly how I had envisioned it in my head. I was correct that the brother gods were not the ultimate authority, and, it is a reasonable interpretation that it was a benevolent Goddess who made them (the metalworker), especially if that fits the Meeting with the Goddess Heroine's Journey step.

My point being I am genuinely conflicted at this point, and my conflict will not resolve until there is the promise of renewal and the show is made and I can reasonably interpret it. I would like it to be good - I would like it to demonstrate V8 excellence, actually. My only hope is that they can see decisions made in V9, if they were made for the reasons that I think they were, simply did not work - CR has not yet renewed the show.

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #raven anabasis theory

[onewomancitadel]

The really weird thing about Jaune characterisation this volume is he gets to have his cake and eat it too, basically. Which runs contrary to most of the predictions about him in my inbox. No 'staying behind with Pyrrha' bullshit, not even opening that possibility; no perma-exile; no martyrdom; no 'exchange'; no staying old forever, none of that.

But... I was right. Lol. I was fucking right. I was fucking right. They also gave me a lot of mean Jaune because they love me

#I'm allowed a little pride for a few minutes #jaune arc sadsack tag #seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9

[onewomancitadel]

This is really silly to say but you know the people who only cared about Beacon era would not be drawn into the show based on revisiting Beacon antics, right? You know that's the wrong audience?? You know all the crossover material related to that is not going to make people watch RWBY???

Ofc there are issues here about the first two volumes of the show (which would've been like... two originally) which were made with duct tape and sticks gave people the wrong impression about the Intentions (or at least different people paid attention to different parts... and there's certainly nothing deeper here probably), which you kind of almost can't go back on, but at a certain point you've got to ask why the fanbase has stuck around? What for? What are the parts we're interested in, what are the things which people talk about? Sure, fanatics aren't always the best measure (e.g. there was a superaudience for Supernatural completely divorced from normies who watched it, and this example is the most stark of fandom confusion about how the numbers are being measured) but in the case of RWBY with its following I think it's truer than not. And this isn't even just about what people liked, but what is making people watch it, and who is being retained and how.

Like, I want to know why people stopped watching after V8 because they felt the show was committing to a thematic miseryguts, even if I think that was successful narratively, RWBY has concerns about its runtime and volume-to-volume retention that other shows don't. Leaving people hanging for two years on this thread might not have been the right choice. Neither was turning back into slapstick.

I really think the cut episodes caused bigger issues for V9 than you can even imagine because I think that the fandom would look very different right now if Raven's return had been included. Sincerely.

#the [redacted] topic #seraphina ruminates over V9

[onewomancitadel]

My pet theory I refuse to accept as disproved is that the reason the sequence with the caterpillar dust and Jaune in the last episode feels so rushed and out of nowhere is because originally he would've been entombed in the chrysallis like Ruby and go through a similar passage himself. It would've probably roughly been the same thing (e.g. involving Alyx) but it might've completely altered the sequence of his arc for the volume.

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #I think they did what they could buttttttttt

[onewomancitadel]

@andromedasysstuff Is this the one you meant

Special thank you to @rubyneo for getting the Ruby screencap for me because CR player hates me and I knew they had it already. Look at me, I'm offshoring my Tumblr screencap gathering labour (which takes so much time).

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #risen and fallen moon

[onewomancitadel]

Best Mate is finally watching Volume 9 so we can watch the finale together (WE ARE BEST FRAND IN REAL LIFE. I LUB U. I'm sending her this post. She doesn't ship Knightfall btw) and she said in the opening there are two elevens. Now she counted it improperly and it's actually two twelves, and I don't know if anybody else has pointed this out yet, but fucking why?

It's sooo fascinating because Cinder is basically 'stuck at midnight'

her backstory ends right at midnight and that's when she wakes up,

and she's repeating that cycle of servitude to Madame under Salem, two midnights.

What does it mean. WHAT DOES IT MEAN.

Jaune has midnight twice over. Unless they can't count and messed up eleven. Is this different in the different intros. I'm not hingeing too much on this but why

It would be really funny if it's just an animation error.

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #knightfall

[onewomancitadel]

The more I think about it, the more I realise that in the crossroads, the things Jaune, Ruby and Weiss saw will come back in a different way despite what they've lost:

Atlas - its people survived! That's what matters!

Penny - no one's ever really gone

Summer - no one's ever really gone and by the way your mum's a Big Bad Wolf Grimm-human abomination!

Jaune - he might physically return to his younger self but he will be spiritually/emotionally changed (the discordance of this with his physical change but spiritual stagnation is really interesting here too). Hopefully he keeps the hair.

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #jaune arc sadsack tag #etc.

[onewomancitadel]

By the way, Ruby 'killing' Oscar's persona (Ozma/Ozpin) feels like foreshadowing that she'll find a way to free him. Cinder killed Ozpin and trapped Oscar (so to speak), and Ruby will by extension find a way to free Oscar. It's definitely linked and feels intentional.

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #RG for tag blocking #it's probably a canon romance lol #reverse ozlem

[onewomancitadel]

I also want it on the renewed record that my criticisms of V9 stand (#seraphina ruminates over V9), but there's a new context to them - that is, to supply context, the tonal discordance I felt was probably, almost absolutely a product of trying to draw in viewers the show needed. Pacing issues are of course well-documented.

The way I want the show to continue is for to continue being the good show it is, not pretending to be something else. I think it would be miserable if the show had to narratively compromise to even get made, because in the first place I think the reason it ought to get made is because its story matters above all.

V8 was and still is the best volume of the show, and V9 felt like such a rapid departure from that in the first four episodes (barring the Jung shadow scene whatever) that I was sincerely concerned. I at least understand why now, I just don't know whether even a renewed RWBY will be RWBY. That worries me.

I am not one for cynical, worrisome speculation re: 'will it or won't it be renewed' or equally overt optimism, for the record. And I have never been one for mincing my criticisms but I have genuinely loved RWBY for some time now. I am not mindlessly loyal to the 'idea' of RWBY, but I am loyal to the material story. And I really really think it's one worth telling.

#unpaid RWBY shill #I will be muttering under my breath about knightfall forever #seraphina ruminates over V9 #<- click if you want to see lol

[onewomancitadel]

Yeah, wow, Jaune's current predicament canonwise is basically an inverse of his introduction: he's physically competent and capable; he is by all rights a Huntsman who finds Red Riding Hood in the woods and saves her from the wolf; he has great hair; Weiss has noticed him (and a false version of him at that, the inversion of their initial dynamic); he's endowed with practical knowledge about the world around him to the point of breaking down the emotional and symbolic system to something borderline cynical.

This is the character who had to have Aura explained to him (obviously also an exposition device, but now the exposition device is the other way around and he's unreliable because he's currently cut off from the intuitive and emotional experience in the illusory world of Ever After).

If they're smart then the way they'd play this is that he realises it's not enough and it's not the solution. As I've said before I am somewhat suspicious if this is also a sort of meta-level answer to his character insofar as people wish he would level up and kill all of the bad guys finally when that's not what's narratively flagged about him, but I still think it makes perfect sense either way. (Especially because he will come away from this experience with something valuable and they can sort of skirt around the characterisation of comic relief - which to me has always been the most ironic thing about him because he's funniest when it's not an obvious case of the hijinks).

The whole conception of his character is a cynical twist; he cheated into Beacon. He's really not supposed to be here.

To me the most beautiful idea is that yes he actually is, just not in the way he ever really anticipated as the person he thought he should be, going beyond the static bounds of the story of hero kill bad guy and then win. It still involves a Fall Maiden of course.

#jaune arc sadsack tag #seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #and #knightfall #because it's just like that okay

[onewomancitadel]

apple of his eye. Please

#knightfall #seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #if this doesn't make sense just ignore me

[onewomancitadel]

I am actually going to be honest because I'm a bleeding heart for bad guys who are saaaaad I really didn't like the resolution for the Curious Cat. Some of us have bad days and possess people. It happens

No seriously though, I did really wonder if they were doing the 'haha you are SILLY for trusting the CC's account of Ever After and SILLY for liking that line about taking a little heart!' personally directed at me but then they didn't, but then they just killed them, but as I elaborated in that ask last night I think it's meant to be 'what not to do' with Salem. We're getting much clearer foreshadowing of how that's supposed to go, even if people ignored the whole 'she can't be killed' thing and its thematic implications. I about expect this at this point in the story which was its darkest.

The only thing I wish they changed was that CC's demise was a little less... unceremonious. I get that there is a little bit of the leashed monster rising up (the Jabberwalky is actually... not overall framed as being irredeemably evil?) going on there though.

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #bad day possessing people #reverse ozlem

[onewomancitadel]

Another small thing: Jaune has the white streaks now, which is a bit like Ruby's red, oh um and also when Cinder had longer hair she had grey tips. I have no idea how or why this connects, but we can pretend that it does and Jaune's matching with Cinder.

If her hair's longer and the grey's started to show again (I don't know if this is a detail they just decided to omit)... then... well.

#seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #knightfall #am just saying #matchy matchy #bizarro weird matchy matchy with them #everything from ozlem to the orange lining in his hoodie to the blue of her brooch #sword/shield and sword/bow no bells and whistles #very weird!

[onewomancitadel]

I think it's only implied but I take it as an absolute truth that the brother gods aren't the ultimate authority. The blacksmith fashioning them as little figurines seemed obvious enough to me but... it's a step in the Heroine's Journey:

Salem's stuck in a corrupted Heroine cycle because she's been denied this step - notice that she's in a state of (constant) spiritual aridity, just like Cinder.

I think leaning into some celestial ambiguity is probably the right choice, and if there ever were a resolution with the brother gods, it's probably not going to be appealing to them as an authority lol.

It's also interesting that Ruby was specifically told not to (F)all, but only by falling did she finally meet the Goddess, so she had to go off the beaten path and return to a storybook Ever After to find the mystic truth about herself and her mother and the Goddess.

#the sacred texts #lol #seraphina ruminates over V9 #sigh