#supreme leader woobie

[voidcat-senket]

a!kylo a!poe o!hux - because you taunted me

you have the doc not that its any good I don't know all of it seems to be in Poe POV for some reason and he's just happy to be a matchmaker even though everyone's actually into him. IDK. Woobie!Hux, Jealous!Kylo and Poe Makes No Sense, that's what you wanted right? have a (sfw) snip you can already access:

“I’m honestly shocked at how dumb you are sometimes,” Poe grins, tussling his hair and pushing it out of his eyes. Ben casts a baleful look his way, his nose wrinkling the way it did when they were children, and tugs hard on the wrap around his forearm. Poe watches it blossom red, a concerned haze shrinking his vision down to Kylo’s wounded form, to the fractaline lightning scars spread across his upper back and his shoulder. “Are you here to insult me or make yourself useful,” Ben scoffs, pitching a bottle of antiseptic spray at Poe. Poe ducks to the side, grinning at Ben’s scowl when the bottle hits the wall behind him before plonking down onto the cot beside him. He picks it up, turning it in his hand to inspect the label. “I didn’t think you used this stuff,” he tells Ben, glancing at him through the hair that had immediately fallen back across his face. “I don’t,” Ben growled, tying the knot in his bandages up with one hand and generous help from the Force. Cheater. “Right, you just snatched it off the tray,” Poe chuckles, and ducks again when a pair of scissors follows the bottle. “So is your big rebellion over or what? The emperor’s dead.” “You’re the rebellion.” “The Resistance, you mean.” Ben shoots him a sour look, but Poe’s been immune to those for almost as long as Ben’s been making them. He smiles easily, tries again to flip his hair out of his face. Maybe he should borrow some of those clips off Rose. “So. You’re still alive but there’s nothing left for you to be the Supreme Leader of anymore. What are you going to do?” “How should I know?” Ben grumbled, as if his ship had broken down and not that the last decade of his life had just been shredded to nothing. Well. Not all of it. Poe just happened to know that a man who would’ve been at the front of the line for execution, had the First Order fallen a year ago, had now been removed entirely from it, and was at this moment embroiled in a meeting that Poe very much should’ve attended. \\\ A man that imagined a universe where everything could be regimented to pure, perfect efficiency, where transportation always ran on time and any deviancy was dismantled and disposed of, but not one where he had any intrinsic worth. A man who crushed himself over wanting there to be meaning in the bites his mate left behind in his weakest moment and locked away even the concept of yearning in his strongest. A man with a mind like a warehouse who could pluck out battle blueprints fully formed from six pieces of information and a single manifest. The first natural leader Poe had ever met that seemed genuinely baffled whenever anyone asked him for his expertise.

#for the record to other readers out there #a/b/o is SO FAR from my wheelhouse #but whatever #if it makes you happy >.>; #sw:st #kyluxpoe #unexplained headcanons like poe and ben being childhood besties #etc etc

[multi-muse-transect]

An Empress and a Princess.

AU: An accident happens leading to an interdimensional mix up of unusual proportions. Mira Wren Bridger, leader of the First Order meets Mira Wren Bridger, Jedi Padawan. The two have a talk in the dinner table. As always, Mira belongs to @meldy-arts. @hotsam1 @eyeloch @angies-team

The house of the supreme leader is a very modest one unlike Snoke’s.  Mira’s home is an almost minimalist house that is located in the snowy woods. It is guarded by Imperial sentry droids and dark troopers alongside some drones patrolling the perimeter around the house. The house has two rooms, one guest and the other obviously belongs to the supreme leader. The living room has a fireplace with a TV hovering over it alongside a rug on the ground. The door windows show the backyard. In front of the TV and fireplace is a a couch. 

Inside the kitchen is supreme leader Bridger aka Mira Wren Bridger making some hot chocolate for her.....Unexpected visitor. It all began when the leader approved for a new transportation test for troopers to come in easily to the battlefield but an unexpected result happened-It ripped space and time and brought someone from a different world, a different universe.....herself. Sitting on a chair in front of a table and looking at her with hateful eyes is her counterpart, (Padawan) Mira or what she dubs, teen Mira. (Supreme leader) Mira is wearing a standard black sweater and pants also has shortened hair while her alternate self has long and somewhat wild looking hair also wearing armor similar to her mother.

It was awkward when they met, she killed like two stormtroopers and also almost killed captain Phasma but she stopped her via force push. (Padawan) Mira hated her other self, being the leader of the First Order and wondered what happened to her family unless they’re dead of course. She would never see herself as a member of the First Order but here she stands as their leader. She hasn’t even spoken since the supreme leader decided to take care of her.  (Supreme leader) Mira finishes up the drinks and walks towards her counterpart then sits in front of her. (Padawan) Mira looks at the hot chocolate suspiciously in front of her as (Supreme leader) Mira drinks some in front of her then pulling out her Nintendo switch to play some Battlefront. (Padawan) Mira pulls at her lightsaber through the force as it flies towards her but her counterpart catches it immediately much to her annoyance. She sighs knowing that this is herself she is dealing with here and she could probably tell her moves.

“.....So what are you doing to do with me? Seduce me to the dark side? Torture me to death through boredom?” (Padawan) Mira asks.

“No, just here to watch you.” (Supreme leader) Mira replied as sounds of blaster fire are heard on her Nintendo switch. She’s simply killing time until someone finds a solution so she can go away and she can spend time with her secret wife, Blare. 

“For a supreme leader, you don’t seem to act like you’re....Supreme.” She suspiciously asks her.

“Uh-huh. I’m not like Snoke or Palpatine. I do what’s best for the First Order evidenced by the news articles you’ve read about me back at the base.” (Supreme leader) Mira replied as she dodges an incoming blaster shot in the game. She is now on a hundred killstreak armed with her favorite in-game weapon, the bo-rifle. The force has its perks in terms of gaming. 

“Anti-corruption speeches, donations to charity, assisting in New Republic operations, corruption busting, etc, etc.....Oh now I get it! You’re trying to bore me to death! That must be your dark side power.” The padawan joked while (Supreme leader) Mira rolls her eyes and drinks some hot chocolate.

“You should try the hot chocolate before it gets cold. Its one of the best.” She advised.

“Its probably laced in cyanide. I know you Imperials.” (Padawan) Mira smirked. She looks around her environment then turns her eyes to the supreme leader.

“You’re free to walk around my house.” (Supreme Leader) Mira replied. (Padawan) Mira gets up from her chair and checks the place out. She lands on the couch and turns on the TV to show that its showing the Immortal and the Restless causing her to roll her eyes to switch it to Five Nights at Teddy’s. (Padawan) Mira turns to the stand the lamp is on to see portraits. Some are medals, pictures with old squad mates, a black haired woman.....Her family. (Padawan) Mira picks up the portrait of the family of her counterpart. Her father looks older alongside her mother, in the center is (Supreme leader) Mira next to Zeb but the thing that catches her eye the most is the same woman in a wedding dress.

She is soon caught off guard by (Supreme Leader) Mira sitting next to her as she switches the show to the Walking Rakghoul though its a rerun. 

“So tell me about yourself.” (Supreme leader) Mira said.

“Myself? Why?” (Padawan) Mira asks.

“I want to explore the possibilities of what my life could have been.” She explained. 

“Well explain yourself then! I mean, I could imagine myself as the leader of a murderous organization turned passive-aggressive.” The padawan countered. (Supreme Leader) Mira stops for a moment then turns to her with a sympathetic look on her face but sighs.

“.....My father and mother left me behind to a friend named Ketsu Onyo since they went off to fight the First Order. The place was a village in Carlac, snowy and very calm. But....That peace came to an end when Deathwatch came in and the First Order came to bring law and order to the planet. The village was Deathwatch’s last stand and the final battle took place there. A soldier found out who I was and chased me as I separated from Ketsu. Captain Phasma saved me though and was under the impression my parents are dead alongside Ketsu. She took me in afterward.” (Supreme Leader) Mira explained.

“And you became a stormtrooper.....” (Padawan) Mira sadly hangs her eyes.

“Yes I did but....I was raised different from the other troopers. I didn’t feel different though. I felt like every other trooper. Just an extension of the First Order and weapon. But unlike them, I had compassion for others and even go as far as to save another friend and spare an enemy if necessary unless he or she tried to kill me. Something was different about me and I didn’t know it....I realized what it was: I was a person. Unlike the other troopers, I had autonomy and even have a sense of identity like them. Heck I even got into a relationship....” (Supreme Leader) Mira sighs and half chuckles.

“It was the woman in the picture from years ago wasn’t it?” 

‘No, no....It was a scavenger named Rey. I met her during my tour at Jakku after captain Phasma assigned me to the planet. We...We interloped as in....You’re a teenager, you would know. But I loved her with all my heart and wanted to protect her from my duties from the First Order, fearing the Resistance would use her against me. So I broke up with her....” She explained as (Padawan) Mira look in pity. From thinking she was another Snoke or Natasi Dala to a woman who sacrificed everything for her duties.

“You still love her don’t you?” (Padawan) Mira asks.

“There wasn’t any moment I thought of her. Even when I was put into the First Order Rescue and Intelligence division. But I knew she would be happy without me too, that she would find another woman that wouldn’t be a danger to her. Soon I found myself as an agent who protected the innocent and served the people....But Snoke....Snoke called me in. He said that I was honorably discharged from the First Order. For the first time in my life I was....I was useless. I wandered the galaxy and became a bounty hunter, it wasn’t my option if I wanted to survive. I thought she was better off without me....It wasn’t until Kyle Katarn found me.” The woman explained.

“And so we found my future wife and we a lot of crazy things to find my parents who were in Lothal at the time. I fought the First Order....I fought the people who saved me and the friends I made. Like always, the bad guys lose and the good guys win. But something caught me off guard though....”

“It was this job wasn’t it?” (Padawan) Mira replied.

“It turns out that Snoke....saw some kind of potential for me. A test given since my induction.....If I reached it then I would become the Supreme Leader. Phasma told me since it was part of a protocol in case Snoke dies and Thrawn takes over but if Thrawn is killed also, then I’m in charge. But this test was a failure....Phasma saw the survival of the Imperial ways through me so I took it. I wanted to save my other family....my brothers, my sisters.....This wasn’t the future I wanted but I didn’t want the First Order falling apart. So I did, I became the leader of the First Order. Seeing how powerful we are, I decided it was best for me to have a seat in the senate as I lead the First Order.”  She ended with a smile.

“.....So is it true that the Imperial march plays every time you walk?” The teen asks causing her to softly chuckle. 

“From what I can gather, you are me from a world where I stayed with my parents. It must be.....A very good experience.” (Supreme Leader) Mira observed. 

“My parents care a lot about me....Sometimes too much but they mean well. Does your parents.....”

“Oh they do care about me big time. Always worrying about my job and my duties, though I accomplish my role as a daughter by calling them.” The Imperial answered. The two hear a knock on the door causing her to get up and open the door to reveal Blare Wren Bridger in her typical Jedi robes.

“Those dark troopers scare the living daylights out of me, you should replace them with Imperial infiltration droids.” Blare suggested.

“At least they won’t shoot you.” (Supreme leader) Mira replied before she enters. Blare hangs up her robes revealing her standard Jedi outfit. She heads to the living room with (Padawan) Mira looking at her.

“So how’s the lovely supreme leader that is my wife doing?~” Blare flirted to (Padawan) Mira mistaking her for her wife.

“Um....I think you’re talking to the wrong Mira.” (Padawan) Mira blushed causing Blare to blink her eyes and turn around to see (Supreme leader) Mira then realizing the age gap between them. 

“Oh sweet Ashla!” Blare cried in panic realizing she was flirting with a teenager much to her horror. 

“I’m so so sorry! You both look the same....Sort of!” She apologized.

“Its okay.” The Padawan replied while rubbing the back of her head. Blare sighs then looks back at (Supreme leader) Mira. 

“So what did the supreme leader of the First Order whip up for dinner today?” Blare asks her before (Supreme Leader) Mira walks to the kitchen. 

“Bantha steak soup with a side of garlic bread.” (Supreme leader) Mira replied in a British accent parodying Orson Krennic before opening the fridge to reveal the now ready meal. All she has to do is boil the soup. The Imperial uses the force to turn on the stove which lights up as she focuses her energy to lift the entire soup from its place then dunks it into the into the pot that is placed on the active stove. It begins to boil as (Supreme Leader) Mira places the garlic bread into the microwave. She checks her watch then the soup right before deactivating the stove then uses a spoon to taste it.

“Hm...It tastes just right!” (Supreme leader) Mira picks the pot up and places it on the table as (Padawan) Mira and Blare sit on their respective seats while (Supreme leader) Mira places a bowel and place on each spot. She then gets the garlic bread before sitting on her table and using the serving spoon to pour some soup into her bowl.  The two do the same as (Padawan) Mira has a sip....The flavor is very inciting 

“Wow, who knew the supreme leader can cook!” (Padawan) Mira complemented.

“Its a skill I learned from my mother.” (Supreme Leader) Mira replied before heading an ahem from Blare.

“And from my wife.” She added. 

“So I heard reports of an accident that caused her to enter our world.” Blare observed (Padawan) Mira. 

“By her age, she looks old enough to look like our daughter.” The Imperial said before sipping some water.

“Oh please.” (Padawan) Mira sassed. 

“And the thought of having kids is last in her list.” Blare smirked.

“Hey! I think about having children.....sometimes.....” (Supreme Leader) Mira replied while looking her eyes away. 

“Uh-huh, you think about it in your office when you get home..” The Jedi replied.

“Blare Wren Bridger, I would make a death star for you my love. So if you want to have kids then we shall have children.” (Supreme Leader) Mira countered. Blare smiles at her wife before having another sip of the soup.

“So what’s it like being supreme leader? Do you over dramatic speeches and all?” (Padawan) Mira asks her.

“It’s.....Lonely but sometimes you remember the things you fight for and also you hang around the higher ups of the First Order and maybe also play the occasional trash can basketball. Also the traditional giant hologram thing, I use it for private sessions.” (Supreme Leader) Mira explained her position. 

“You know, you should train at Luke’s order. There’s always a spot for you there.” Blare told (Padawan) Mira.

“Thanks for the offer but no thanks.....I already got my Jedi training from my dad.”  (Padawan) Mira replied. The group continues to eat their meal while (Padawan) Mira looks at her alternate self and how compassionate she is. (Supreme Leader) Mira notices that something is wrong with her.

“Something the matter? You seem awfully down.” 

“It’s just....I’m surprised and all. I thought you were some Imperial warlord but you act just exactly like me if I was an adult. Now I’m here having dinner with the supreme leader and her wife....It just feels-” (Padawan) Mira said.

“Odd? Yes I know it is...I swore to change the First Order for the better after all. With a new face and a new way of thinking....Mira, I have some advice for you. I don’t know if this will happen but one day you will be a leader and at the same time, you’ll be conflicted. But no matter what in the end, you are still you. Do not let some mindset change who you are.” (Supreme Leader) Mira advised to her younger self. 

“And that’s why I fell in love with you in the first place.” Blare added with a warm smile. (Supreme Leader) Mira looks at Blare and her other self, how they looked like a family to her....The wise supreme leader having children. 

Night falls on the Bridger household. It was an eventful night, how (Padawan) Mira got along with herself and Blare at the same time. (Supreme leader) Mira finishes her list to do tomorrow as she sends the memo to her infiltrator droid who is her assistant. She spots (Padawan) Mira sleeping on the couch and she looks cold....(Supreme Leader) Mira has an idea.

She takes her cape that is hung up on the rack and walks towards her. The Imperial places the cape on the sleeping Jedi-to-be before heading off to her room where Blare is sleeping.

(Supreme Leader) Mira and (Padawan) Mira stand beside each other in front of the gate that is opening. Hux has been informed that the other universe’s Bridger family has contacted them beyond the portal. (Padawan) Mira will miss being around her other self, how wise she was and almost like her father and maybe miss the food she makes. (Supreme Leader) Mira is wearing a white grand admiral uniform and white cape while (Padawan) Mira is wearing her typical armor.

Heading out of the gate is Ezra, Sabine, Kanan, Zeb, Hera, and Dawn. But not the ones she knows. The death troopers guarding (Supreme Leader) Mira aim there blasters at them but she signals them to stand down. (Padawan) Mira runs up to them and hugs Ezra. Ezra smiles then looks back at (Supreme Leader) Mira.

“Mom....Dad.” (Supreme Leader) Mira greeted. Ezra looks sadly at the supreme leader knowing a position like that can mess a person up due to loneliness.

“Mira....” Sabine replied.

“.....You raised a good child.” She spoke.

“Mira.....You can come with us. This isn’t you.....” Kanan pleaded.

“No....In this world, I have two families. The family that helped me survive and my real family. But thank you anyway....” (Supreme leader) Mira smiled. (Padawan) Mira looks back at her for a moment.

“And I also have responsibilities, keeping the galaxy safe and all by cooperating with the New Republic, that sort of thing.” She continued. Ezra sighs knowing that this Mira has good in her.

“Well I hope we meet again.” Ezra nodded. (Padawan) Mira then runs up and shares a hug with the supreme leader catching her off guard. She is surprised as first but realizes that this could have been her, so she hugs her in response. (Padawan) MIra lets go and walks away with her family into the portal as it closes leaving a still smiling (Supreme Leader) Mira.

#star wars rebels #mira wren bridger #ezra bridger #supreme leader mira #blackberry bean #blueberry bean #protect both of them #supreme leader woobie #sabine wren #kanan jarrus #hera syndulla #garazeb orrelios #gay blueberry #sabezra #dawn syndulla

[bhadpodcast]

1/2 The people who behave the worst toward the canon character of Scott McCall and trash the canon presentation of Scott are always Scott McCall Stans. It’s not even fanon!Scott in their wankfics. It’s just a Self-Insert Scott/Posey Stan with a Scott Name Tag.

Like, how many times do antis portray Scott as a poor innocent woobie and supreme leader with a tragic past who’s too good and smort and compassionate and competent for his own good even though canon explicitly says and shows the literal opposite? How many times do antis have other Teen Wolf characters (especially the ones who canonically despise Scott and would gladly dance on his grave) defer to Scott as “my alpha”? The truth is that no one hates canon Scott McCall more than his stans

Yup. 

Also, Twitter Nonnie, already saw it and boo to her for trying to get that acct against me, but thankfully she didn't fall for it. 

[greyjedireylo]

An anti in a Reylo hat, crawling out of the gutter into your inbox: .....They’re going to market Kylo as the Evil Supreme Leader. There’s no going back he’s too far gone

it’s not even the how-do-you-do-fellow-reylos antis that frustrate me, I expect that of them at this point lmao, it’s that there were a lot of genuine reylo shippers spreading this around for the last year--not just in my inbox and not just on anon. 

just like incessant lecturing about how we all needed to brace ourselves for Big Bad Masked Supreme Leader Kylo RenTM marketing, and I’ve been sitting here this whole time saying ‘lmao I’ve been through this rodeo once before and that’s not going to happen.’ and the thing that kills me is that most of them have also been through this rodeo before?? but they fell prey to their own insecurities/anti gaslighting/whatever AGAIN and it’s just like...the tone they’ve taken with their negativity that bothers me. like they’re the enlightened ones for being cynical and having low expectations of an optimistic children’s space fairy tale. they’re just like...a real life example of ‘if you only believe in the sun when you can see it, you’ll never make it through the night.’ lol like??? it’s really easy to now be like ‘bendemption here we come!!!!’ when the marketing is here in front of your face, but six months or a year ago they were going around spreading cynicism like wildfire and talking over people like me who were like ‘they’re going to market him as conflicted and go hard on the woobie, as they ALWAYS DO.’

#I'M SORRY I'M JUST REALLY ANNOYED BY HOW THIS FANDOM HAS THE MEMORY OF A GOLDFISH #and how people who have been saying this stuff all along and keeping the light on and being confident in what the story has told us #instead of going around everywhere fearmongering #barely even get acknowledged for doing that #and instead get lumped in with everyone else like 'WHY WERE WE SO WORRIED' #'WE' weren't worried YOU were lmao #asks

[benperorsolo]

what's your opinion of the masked kylo marketing so far? i think it's interesting that his aesthetic and vibe is unchanged from his tfa/tlj self: if you hadn't watched tlj, you would not be able to tell that this character had become the supreme leader, you might even assume he'd broken off from the fo given how his mask is in shambles. i was expecting more evil-dictator material, which, who knows, we might get in the content of the eu books, but the kylo marketing so far is all tfa/tlj vibes

I’m sort of disappointed on a personal level (let me see his sad face you cowards) but not strictly surprised. I think it’s kind of unnecessary, given that we very much know what Ben looks like at this point, but to me that indicates that the mask is being kept solely for some storytelling purpose (since it’s not for the out-of-story purpose of keeping his appearance ambiguous for mysteriousness/intimidation factor, like with TFA). 

I’ve kind of been on record for a while saying this, but I never expected more evil dictator material. LF have always shown themselves to be largely uninterested in portraying Ben in this way. People were expecting Ben to be some yellow-eyed bona fide Dark Side aficionado after TFA and Han’s death, and not only was he definitely not that in TLJ, but the promo material included a photo in EW which which we now know was him crying with Rey before holding her hand (!!), and a lot of photos of him looking very princely and beautiful. 

If LF wanted to push the Evil Kylo Ren angle, they would have begun in TLJ, when everyone was certainly expecting it. People are expecting it again after TLJ, but that doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, and I doubt it will to the extend people think it will. We are not making up the fact that Ben is a Byronic anti-hero woobie type; that’s textual, and that’s the character type LF knows he is. That’s why he’s constantly being portrayed mostly as villainous but conflicted– the evil is almost always undercut with some sort of dig at his angst, etc etc. It’s not by accident. It’s the design. 

I think the presence of the mask is a) mostly for ambiguity, i.e. is he really Big Bad Evil Supreme Leader or is he still conflicted (no points for guessing correctly here), and b) it probably represents Ben’s regression into a persona he knows and is familiar with, but which ultimately he has grown so far beyond that he can no longer fool himself and pretend it fits. I think it’s, uh, super interesting that most of the shots of Big Bad Kylo Ren are masked, when we know he’s foregone the mask before– it’s not like “Kylo Ren” has to be masked. To me, this indicates a marked split between the Kylo Ren persona Ben is still trying to project, and the reality of Ben Solo beneath. We know he’s unmasked in the film– so I think there’s way more going on here than just “okay well now he’s the faceless big bad again.”

#asks #nonnie #tros spec

[daywillcomeagain]

Maedhros?

003 | Give me a character & I will tell you:

How I feel about this character: (absolute incoherent sobbing) he is so important to me. so, so important. guilt and despair and being eternally doomed to be evil and trying to do good anyway, the oath and moral complexity and spending so many years tortured and trapped in a corner and slowly losing everything and everyone he’s ever cared about and eventually giving up and still getting to be a hugely sympathetic leader in the fight against evil

Any/all the people I ship romantically with this character: fingon fingon fingon fingon. that’s it that’s all of them. i can sometimes go for other ships sexually for Supremely Fucky Fanfiction (sauron/maedhros, elu thingol/maedhros, maglor/maedhros….) but never romantic ones. 

My favorite non-romantic relationship for this character: maedhros and maglor! especially at the end of the first age, when they’re the only ones left–it’s such a fascinating dynamic

My unpopular opinion about this character: oh man, do i have one? i don’t think i do, he’s popular enough as a character in this fandom that i think most of my opinions are pretty popular. hmm. i write him as less of a woobie than the fandom normally does, i think? not because he’s any less hurt and traumatized (i have so many fics that are just about maedhros being extremely hurt and traumatized!) but because i write him as–he acts, he doesn’t react, if that makes sense, and though he’s a good diplomat he has a serious vicious streak.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: torn between “canon russingon” and “a happy ending please”. can an entire fic count as one thing? if so, the starless road.

Favorite friendship for this character: fingolfin! i think that they got along really well and understood each other a lot. 

My crossover ship: i don’t think i really have one! i just really, really do not ship him with with anyone but fingon. i’ve read some things that sold me on crossover ships (for all you double nerds out there: kib/island is cuuuute) but on the whole i’m pretty single-minded about my maedhros ships.

#wolffyluna #shut up þornwë #the ‘crossover ship’ section doubles as a filter test for which of you are going to be like ‘huh??? who???’ #and which of you are going to be like ‘OH SHIT YOU’VE READ SILMARIL????’

[toddcowardd]

tbh snokes death is disappointing as all hell bc he was another wasted characters on a long list of wasted characters in tlj BUT him being dead and kylo declaring himself supreme leader means that kylo stans lost a HUGE leg to stand on while making their woobie redemption arguments so like,,, im not too disappointed lmao 

#yall cant hide behind ''but butbutbtutbubuhtbu snoke!1!!1!!!!!!''' anymore l m a o

[emeraldspiral]

So  as of TLJ, in the Sorting Algorithm of Heel/Face Turns Kylo now scores:

Species: He’s the last of the Skywalkers now, so Rare and Special, 5.

Gender: Male, 2.

Age: Young Adult, 4.

Role: He’s the Big Bad now, not just the dragon, so 1. *cries*

Aesthetics: Evil is Sexy, 4.

Motivation: Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds, 3.

Characterization: Lost and confused, 5.

Contentedness: SO MUCH ANGST. THE HARDEST 5.

Morality: The Good, the Bad, and the Evil 4.

Idealism: Idealist, 5.

Average: 38/50. Down from 42/50. Odds still put him at 76% likely to do a Heel Turn. Taking on the role of Supreme Leader role didn’t affect his score much.

But come on, obviously they’re not going to have Han and Luke die in vain. No, the real question is what’s his score on the Sorting Algorithm of Mortality. Well, since the current Sorting Algorithm of Mortality sucks ass, I don’t have an answer for that yet. Maybe when they come up with better categories and examples I’ll get back to you.

#star wars #star wars tlj #tlj #the last jedi #star wars the last jedi #ben solo #kylo ren #tvtropes #sorting algorithm #heel turn #heel face turn #heel/face turn

[benperorsolo]

Another interpretation that I think is interesting but doesn’t quite feel right to me, is the interpretation of Kylo’s character as a subversion of the “manipulated villain/Vader arc.” The argument is Kylo was set up as used and manipulated by Snoke in TFA, but TLJ killed that by showing Kylo is responsible for himself and chooses evil, and made him a clearer villain. I think TLJ does show he’s responsible for his actions, but I still can’t see TLJ as showing how truly, decidedly evil Kylo is.

I’d say your instincts are 100% correct. (Clearly I’m a biased source but.)

The claim that Anakin was manipulated more by Palpatine than Ben was by Snoke is…frankly laughable. One can argue that Palpatine had groomed Anakin since he was a teenager or young adult, but Snoke was canonically in Ben’s head and has strongly been implied to have been since when Ben was in the womb. The math doesn’t seem too complex here.

And besides details like that, from purely comparing the OT with the ST, to suggest that Kylo Ren has more agency and is deeper into the Dark Side than Vader is…lmfao. In the OT, Vader is barely even regarded as human until ESB reveals that he is actually Luke’s father, and even then this revelation is played as horrific. It’s only in ROTJ when his humanity is ever discussed or brought up as a question, and Vader shows pretty much zero signs of conflict until Luke is literally being tortured before his eyes. Compare this with Kylo Ren, who has been shown as sympathetic and conflicted from act one of the first film, whom multiple people insist there is still good inside of, whose family desperately forgives him and wants him back, who is shown being tortured by his master (not so with Vader), whose identity as Ben Solo is made a paramount part of the character and adds immense stakes to his redemption, as well as immense humanization– it’s not a contest. I’m not saying that Anakin is less woobie than Ben all media considered, but not everyone reads all media. If you’re strictly comparing the trilogies in which they act as villains, Ben absolutely is more woobified than Anakin. Anakin is a straight-up villain. Ben is an anti-villain at worst and inches very closely to being an anti-hero.

I always laugh at people who think the point of TLJ was to show that Kylo Ren is now a cemented, remorseless villain because the point of Crait is the exact opposite. I just answered an ask on a similar topic so I’ll requote it here:

The ST has had two chances to make Ben ascend into mustache twirling villainy– the murder of his father, and Crait. Yet after each of these actions, Ben doesn’t get more empowered in the dark, he gets less. Every time, the narrative frames these technical ‘victories’ as spiritual losses.

After Ben becomes Supreme Leader of the entire FO, the actual Big Bad, he ends the film on his knees. Like a sinner, like a penitent. The dice –Han, and Han’s heart within him– is what he’s lost. Rey –love, light– is what he almost had. Now he has neither, even though he’s gotten everything he claims he’s wanted. And it’s not framed as what he wants. It’s framed as defeat.

You get the drift. The point of Ben becoming his own master at the end of TLJ is not for him to be a remorseless big bad. It’s so that Ben can achieve everything he thought he wanted –all of the power in the galaxy, the ultimate goal of the Dark Side– and realize that it’s meaningless. It’s empty. It does not quiet his conflict or his soul. That way the onus of Ben’s redemption is entirely on Ben. It’s not because he was trying to get the girl or because he was tired of being manipulated by Snoke or anything else. It’s because he had everything, and gave it up. And that’s how we’ll know his turn is genuine.

#nonnie #asks