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butterflydm · 27 days

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more WoT s3 spec - what we know vs what we're guessing at

I've been poking at what we know about s3 vs what we can reasonably guess, so I wanted to break that down a bit.

So there are a few things we know just about the structure of how the show has worked so far: we know they shoot in blocks of two episodes each and that each of those blocks is going to have the same director for both episodes. Because of this info, we can make some guesses at where specific episodes may land. We also have some casting info (wotseries.com being a great resource here).

They tend to have a major reveal in the fourth episode - Nynaeve being incredibly powerful in the One Power in 1x04; Selene being Lanfear in 2x04.

What we know for certain:

Rhuidean & the Waste will appear (Rand & Egwene's storyline).

Tanchico will appear (Nynaeve & Elayne's storyline).

The Two Rivers will appear (Perrin's storyline).

Rand and Perrin will each get focus episodes akin to Nynaeve having "What Might Be" and Egwene having "Eyes Without Pity" in s2.

We have four episode titles: "To Race The Shadow"; "A Glimpse of Crimson"; "Goldeneyes"; and "He Who Comes With The Dawn".

Sea Folk are confirmed for S3.

Potential leaks include:

Mat, Min, and Thom all being part of Nynaeve & Elayne's storyline in Tanchico. Big change for Mat & Min, but matches canon for Thom. And since show-onlys have only seen Thom with Mat and Rand, it would make sense to use Mat to re-introduce us to him.

Reports of the actresses reported to be playing Morgase and Elaida seen at a castle which is almost certainly in Caemlyn (Andoran banners spotted), most likely for the first or second episode due to the timing.

An actress playing Maigran (one of the Aiel from the Rhuidean glass columns sequence) is listed under the director who is being used for eps 3 and 4.

An actress has been cast to play an older version of Latra and I really like @wheeloftimeofficial's idea that we'll see her as the ancient Aes Sedai who establishes Rhuidean in the glass column memories, especially since the younger actress also has s3 listed on her CV.

We have (unofficially) confirmed castings for Faile & Galad.

Hints we've gotten from interviews & bts info:

In an interview filmed before the actors' strike, Daniel mentions Lan having some really good relationship scenes with Nynaeve, so we know that there's interaction between those characters before their plotlines separate, implying that we will not begin with everyone already all off on their separate journeys, like they were in 2x01.

Also from Daniel, it's implied that there are training scenes between Lan and Rand (could happen at any point, since Lan is likely to be in Rand's storyline the entire season).

From what Josha has said, the show will be pivoting to a more familial relationship between Egwene and Rand next season (which matches the book timing).

Rafe made a point of mentioning that Elayne healing Rand was to flag to the audience that this was a relationship to pay attention to (which implies we'll get at least some movement on that relationship in s3).

Josha also says that there is "way more togetherness" for Two Rivers' characters in s3 than in s2.

In an unrelated interview on screenrant, Rima Te Waita (Sheriam) mentioned that she will not be in s3 but, if s4 is greenlit, she will be in s4.

Josha and Ayoola posted some cute instas of each other after finishing up the South Africa shooting stint near Cape Town, which might be a hint towards our potential AviRand interactions (could also just be the actors being cute!).

Guesses based on book & show knowledge:

It seems likely to me that Gawyn & Galad will be introduced in the same episode as Morgase and Elaida, which I am tentatively going to guess will be episode 2.

I think that Verin, Alanna & their Warders are going to be getting out of Cairhien as quickly as possible. And that they are pretty conveniently set up to head to their TSR storyline.

I am pretty torn about when the coup will happen! I feel like it happening this season feels pretty much a lock because there really isn't any more "White Tower storyline" until the coup happens, and they do already have the set made. But it could either happen pretty early on or fairly late in the season. Maybe episode five? That lets us meet Elaida in episode 2, gives her and possibly Gawyn & Galad time to get to the White Tower, maybe we get some scenes of her politicking in the WT in episode 4, with the trigger being pulled in episode 5 or 6. But another possibility is that the coup happens right away, while all those Sisters are still in Cairhien and we see Liandrin take the lead on something like stilling Siuan and Leane, which would put the White Tower in chaos before Elaida even arrives. There are at least two Black Ajah Sisters in Cairhien, after all, and Liandrin likes to act extra-judicially, and she might want to try to make sure that Siuan is taken care of before anyone has a chance to out her (Liandrin) as Black Ajah. But there is also a chance that it might happen in the finale, so that we can parallel Moiraine & Siuan's 'downfalls'. So really this one is a wildcard for me. It isn't really directly tied to any other specific events in TSR, so it can happen whenever.

We will get the glass columns in episode 3 or 4. In the books, it happened as soon as Rand landed in the Waste, basically, but the show could potentially do Cold Rocks Hold first, depending on how Rand is getting to the Waste. I used to lean towards it happening in ep3, but after learning the leak about Mat being in Tanchico, it made me wonder about ep4, maybe, as that could potentially lead to Mat going through the doorways (just speculation with zero leaks or spoilers to back it up but I like it a lot lol) from Tanchico to Rhuidean either at the end of ep4 or the start of ep5, leaving Nynaeve & Elayne's storyline and going to Rand & Egwene's.

I do keep thinking about Josha saying that the Two Rivers' kids would have "way more togetherness" than in s3, which seems difficult if they all separate by or after ep2 and then don't reunite the entire season. I guess technically it would be true because they don't reunite in s2 until the final moments of 2x08 but feels somewhat underwhelming to mention, lol.

I do still suspect that we're getting Lanfear & Moiraine with the doorway at the end of the season.

So, a tentative outline. Now we leave behind the more solid leaks and knowledge and enter into the wild speculations. Please check out @markantonys' recent post too, she's got some fun speculations!

3x01: To Race the Shadow

"Way more togetherness" between the Two Rivers group than in s2, so says Josha. This is also where we have to be getting the Lan & Nynaeve romantic scenes that Daniel keeps hyping up, lol.

Moiraine and Rand are going to be arguing about his next plans.

Something will happen that makes them realize that Something Is Up in Tanchico -- this might be a first Dream from Egwene that leads them in the direction of the museum? Which also leads to her talking to Amys, which is why she decides to go with Rand instead of going with Nynaeve & Elayne. The big question for me is if they are going to Tanchico because of Liandrin or if they go for other reasons and then run into Liandrin also being there to get the same thing that they're getting.

Now Mat may go into a doorway here as speculated by @markantonys (the room of curiosities) but for this specific outline, I'm going to say that he doesn't, and instead he chooses to go with Elayne & Nynaeve because he's running away from Rand (after the Stabbening). This pulls in something that Mat tries to do a lot in the books but gives him a new motivation that fits his show character.

I think Lanfear is going to warn Rand about the rest of the Forsaken being free but potentially also send Liandrin to Tanchico to try to get the, uh, plot token for her potential use in the future (a girl needs a back-up plan).

Lanfear talking to Rand might be another thing that Rand and Moiraine argue about.

Rand and Egwene are going to have their official 'break-up' and then we'll see their more platonic relationship develop over the course of the season. I also feel like we have to have at least a scene or two with Rand and Elayne to establish them feeling Some Kind of Way about each other, to build on that moment from 2x08.

3x02: A Glimpse of Crimson

Good episode title for a Red Ajah & Andor episode!

I'm going to guess that Rand & co are going to be stopping in Caemlyn (my feelings are similar to @markantonys about us potentially getting a garden introduction between Egwene & Gawyn here, and then having Rand & Egwene meet Elaida & Morgase (and Galad?). Elaida will have her Foretelling about Rand and freak herself out.

Our group hears the rumors about the Two Rivers, and Perrin decides to go investigate. The question is how is Rand going to get to the Waste from Caemlyn? I don't feel like they would introduce Portal Stones as a one-off if they haven't done it before, so I think there's a chance that Loial might go with Rand instead of Perrin, as Perrin doesn't need to go through the Ways to get to the Two Rivers (of course, then they would need to change how the battle resolves in 3x07).

(alternatively: there's always the Lanfear express, I guess, lol)

This could also be when Elayne, Nynaeve, & Mat arrive in Tanchico, and their introduction to the city is our B plot. I don't think they would throw all the plots at them at once and I feel like just introducing Thom first would be a good start for the first episodes in Tanchico.

3x03: Unknown

Rand & co arrive in the Waste, but I'm going to send them to Cold Rocks Hold for now, instead of straight to Rhuidean. This gives Rand and Aviendha time to bond, Rand and Moiraine time to fight, Rand and Lan time to train together, and gives the audience a chance to get to know the Aiel culture in a bit more of a relaxed setting. Then we get an attack by Shadowspawn and Rand gets the reminder that the other Forsaken have been let free and don't share Ishamael and Lanfear's feelings about him.

Another plot will be in Tanchico, involving Nynaeve, Elayne, and Mat investigating, running into Min and/or Egeanin or Tuon taking Egeanin's role. This may be where we get our early encounters with Moghedien (she Compels one or more of our characters to spill the beans to her about their plans) and potentially where she reveals herself to Liandrin & co as one of the Chosen and takes control of their group after playing servant for part of the episode.

We also have Perrin & co arriving in the Two Rivers and getting the lay of the land. This could be a fairly emotional episode for Perrin, due to memories of Laila's death. Maybe when Perrin says goodbye to Laila (putting his ring on her grave/memorial?) and potentially our first sighting of Faile.

3x04: Unknown

Rand goes to Rhuidean and into the glass columns. This is the main plot of the episode and Rand's focus episode of the season.

We get the history of the Aiel here, and learn about Rand's ancestors.

Subplot: Aviendha is told that she is destined to be a Wise One (maybe she accidentally channeled during the fight at Cold Rocks Hold?) and deals with idea that she has to leave behind being a Maiden.

Our Tanchico B-plot leads to Mat entering through the twisted doorway in the museum, For Reasons, and getting his prophecies. Maybe this same plotline leads to Elayne and Nynaeve finding dream ter'angreal, and to Tuon/Egeanin realizing that Elayne and Nynaeve are channelers, and potentially learns that all sul'dam are, and then leaves our main plotline at this time.

3x05: Unknown

When Rand leaves the glass columns, he finds Mat hanging on the tree outside, and saves his life (we've gotten a few different pieces of foreshadowing about Mat being hanged, so I feel like it will happen at some point). Mat says he was just in Tanchico.

We catch up with Perrin in the Two Rivers, with him learning to move past his grief as he gets to know Faile.

Because we've already done Cold Rocks Hold, this means that Rand & co can go straight to Alcair Dal at this point.

Aviendha and Rand bond over their lives being dictated by being able to use the One Power and not having any choices about their future.

On the way to Alcair Dal, we meet the traders, who are hiding Lanfear and Asmodean in their ranks, and Lanfear sees that Rand is getting closer to Aviendha and Does Not Approve.

Nynaeve and Elayne worry about where Mat has disappeared to and experiment with the dream ter'angreal that they recently discovered in the museum (might only be one: the twisted stone ring, so that channeling isn't needed for it), and run into Birgitte in the dream. She gives them a warning but they realize that this is the same place that Egwene was talking about in 3x01 and are excited that they might be able to communicate with her.

3x06: Unknown

Another journey into TAR for Nynaeve (maybe a successful contact with Egwene?), and she encounters Birgitte again, but Moghedien too, and this leads to Birgitte getting ripped out of TAR and bonded by Elayne to save her life.

Moiraine tells Rand that he needs to go to Tear, to fulfill more of the prophecies, but Rand is resistant.

The Two Rivers ramps up for the battle.

This would also be a good spot for the coup, imo.

3x07: Goldeneyes

The Battle of the Two Rivers. Potentially Perrin's focus episode as well, as he comes into his own as a leader. I think that it would be good to push any confirmed Perrin/Faile romance forward into the future, so they will still just have some vibes for now.

We get some pieces moving into place for the other storylines: Rand arrives at Alcair Dal; Nynaeve and Elayne make plans to return to the museum.

3x08: He Who Comes With The Dawn

Desperate to get through to Rand and worrying that he is focusing on the Aiel instead of being the Dragon Reborn, Moiraine went back to Rhuidean to try to use the doorway, as when Mat talked about his experiences there, she recognized what he was talking about and wants answers of her own.

Rand announces himself at Alcair Dal, drawing the attention of Lanfear, who makes her pitch to him that We Could Rule Together, worrying that she's losing her hold over him after seeing him getting closer to Aviendha. She tells him about Asmodean and about him potentially teaching Rand so that he can reach his potential.

Inside the doorway, Moiraine gets answers that she doesn't like about Rand and Lanfear (sort of merging her going into the doorway in Tear with her going into the silver rings).

On the Tanchico side of things, we have our big Tanchico encounter between Nynaeve and Moghedien, which results in Nynaeve breaking her block. Nynaeve and Elayne escape Tanchico on a Sea Folk ship, heading towards Tear, potentially bringing Min & Thom along with them.

After talking with Lanfear, Rand is let out of his 'bubble' at Alcair Dal as Couladin declares that HE is the Car'a'carn and he will prove it by leading the Aiel to conquer the wetlands (setting up s4 to be a combo of TFoH/LoC, with a hint of TDR with the destination being Tear instead of Cairhien). Rand realizes that the fake dragons on Couladin's arms were put there by Asmodean and goes after him -- Asmodean Skims back to Rhuidean and he and Rand battle, and Lanfear arrives, puts the block on Asmodean and offers him up as a teacher to Rand. Moiraine takes advantage of Lanfear's focus on Rand to yeet both of them into the doorway while channeling, based on the knowledge that she learned inside, melting the doorway. We see in the Tanchico storyline that the other doorway melts at the same time, leaving them no exit.

And I agree with @markantonys that possibly the most effective stinger would be the reveal that Tuon is the DotNM, but if there is no Tuon in this season, we could have it be a Forsaken (Sammael) setting up shop in Tear, to set the scene for the upcoming season.

It is a lot more cliffhanger-y than our previous season finales and I'm sure that my thoughts on it will change as we get closer and learn more spoilers, but that is my wild speculation for this specific week!

#wot #wheel of time #wot on prime #wot book spoilers #the fires of heaven #wot speculation #wot s3 speculation

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butterflydm · 4 months

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More s3 hints from interviews (day 2 & Josha!)

@markantonys linked me to a masterthread of More Interviews (twitter.com/GradeKangusBeef/status/1736788980006330448), which I have scoured for more s3 hints, lol. The twitter thread is being updated as they appear, so I definitely recommend the thread as a whole.

From a screenrant interview with Zoë:

Are there any future events or character moments from the books that you know about that you’re excited to get into?

Zoë Robins: Yes, definitely. I’m going to have to tread very carefully, but there’s a moment in season three that I think Wheel of Time book readers will be very, very happy about. It was incredibly exciting to shoot. I think that’s all I can say.

Guessing this will be the Nynaeve-Moghedien confrontation! The word 'exciting' makes me lean that way -- though we may get other key scenes from the books like Lan giving her his ring, not sure that would count as 'incredibly exciting to shoot' and would more likely be described as tender or sweet.

From one with Daniel:

One thing that is less present in the show so far compared to the books is Lan being kind of a mentor figure for Rand. Is there a chance we’ll get a little more of that as the show progresses?

Daniel Henney: I would say that I personally would not bet against it. I'm being shipped off in two months to a place very far away to shoot some really incredible stuff where I have to be in very good shape. I'm eating tree leaves and protein shakes, and I'm in a double training schedule right now, which could include some of the stuff you're talking about.

Another hint that we'll be getting Lan training Rand next season.

From a Dónal one from screenrant; this isn't about s3 but it's sweet:

Dónal Finn: It's great. I love the character very much for that reason. It’s a very human experience that when you're watching, you can go, “I can identify with that, because that person is trying to use levity and humor and lightness to make ease of someone else's difficult situation.” Even though it often can feel like he's kind of punching up or trying to jeer at Rand or something, he knows that it comes from a place of, like, “God, there's so much hard stuff going on for Rand in every day of his life that he needs somebody to do that.” Otherwise, when we meet him in Cairhien, if he doesn't have that—if he doesn't have Mat at that place—he may not laugh, and that's just really crap for your best friend.

I love this point here. I don't think I even realized how miserable as a baseline Rand was this season until we got that contrast of his reunion with Mat. We may be getting that dynamic continuing into s3.

Kate Fleetwood with dragonmount:

KF: Lots of things happen in Season Three... yeah… they sat me down and were like, “This is what we are planning for you in Season Three.” I was, whoaa! Ok…

Very vague, but interesting! I wonder if Liandrin will be a tug-of-rope between Moghedien and Lanfear next season, because Lanfear snagged her from Ishamael but Moggy might snag her from Lanfear.

The tiniest of s3 hints from Ayoola:

AS: A combination of things, I think like, it’s the writers and it is Naomi, my dialect coach, and I kind of spoke about that, it is that humor that the Aiel have that's kind of, can catch you off guard and isn't necessarily funny to everyone but they find it amusing… just where that hits I think and just kind of the situations and we're able to play with that and bring that in. Also, Aviendha is kind of a little bit more cheeky than some of the other Aiel that we will encounter and kind of her humor is very much part of who she is. Just kind of playing around with that, and it just, it just came out and felt right.

We're gonna meet some serious Aiel in s3. Not a surprise, but good to hear!

Madeleine talked to decider.com:

So far what we know about next season is it’s going to be hugely inspired by The Shadow Rising. We’re going to see Rhuidean and Tel’aran’rhiod. Egwene is now coming out of being a damane. You know, is there anything about her experience with the Seanchan that might influence how she handles, say, another hard, foreign culture like the Aiel? Absolutely. Look, I think even from Season 1, we see that Egwene’s truly been a novice of the world and is fascinated with what is out there and what other people can teach her and what other cultures can teach her. I think she’s sort of taken little bits of the Two Rivers, the White Tower, the Seanchan… And, you know, she goes on this journey to the Aiel Waste and ultimately will, no doubt, learn a lot there as well. So I think she’s just like a big sponge for the world and wants to learn.

Confirmation that Egwene is going to the Aiel Waste, which makes sense, given that's her TSR plotline. Also, Egwene as a big sponge for the world and constantly learning is just... absolute 100% Egwene.

Josha talked to looper.com:

For Rand, Season 2 was about finding himself and realizing that he can't run away from it. He needs to do it with the people he loves. Season 3 is finally time for facing what he has to face. He's owning that prophecy more, and we see glimpses of why Rand is the Dragon Reborn and why he'll end up where he needs to end up. As that evolution's taking place, what do you do to get into character as this character is evolving? I'm very lucky that I have 14 books, which I have read, and that has given me a lot. I really understand Rand, and it's a lot of things. It's the conversations I have with Rafe [Judkins], the directors, and the writers. It's playing with all these amazing actors. It's the sets. Everything feels so real, and at the end of Season 3, we go to South Africa for two months, and being in that environment, all those things added up together, that helps you to get into the character.

Very exciting! We know that South Africa is Rhuidean, I believe, so very exciting to hear.

Also, Season 3, that keeps on going, and that is a very interesting area to explore because Lanfear is the Devil, and you can't love the Devil. It feels at times that Lanfear is the only one that really understands Rand, and because Rand is often very lonely in what he feels and sees, it seems like, at times, he can't express it to anyone else, and she's exactly what he needs — but she's the devil. That was very interesting for us to explore, and I secretly hope that Rand and Lanfear marry, but I don't think that will happen.

lol @ Josha. Anyway, yes, they're going to be exploring Lanfear trying to tempt/manipulate Rand more in s3, sounds like, so she isn't going to pay attention to Moghedien's warning for too long.

Again, without spoilers, what's next for Rand and the Emond's Field Five heading into Season 3? What can we expect? That's a good question. What can you expect for Season 3 without getting into spoilers? Well, they're together again. There is way more togetherness than in Season 2. That's exciting. It is fun to follow all of you guys, but there's a lot more momentum when you're all together. That's also quite hard for them, because these main characters all need to become something eventually. Because they are so close, it also creates some inner conflict. Rand, for example — if someone has been to your first birthday parties, it is very hard to become the most powerful channeler in the world and also the most dangerous man in the world, because they know your parents and they know who you were. That is one of the struggles they're facing now that they're together at the start of Season 3.

I would like to paste that last sentence from his first answer directly into the brains of everyone at reddit who believes that s3 is going to start with everyone all split up into separate plotlines and we're not going to get any group interactions.

Great answers from Josha in this one!

Screenrant also talked to him:

How do you interpret Rand’s relationship with Egwene in season 2? It’s romantic in the first season; do you feel like there’s a thread of that still there?

Josha Stradowski: I think a thread of that romantic relationship is definitely still there, because it gives this feeling of home for the both of them. They have been to each other's birthday parties. I think that is, on a human level, very [much] what they both need. But I think it also might transition to something else; more like a brother/sister kind of love. But that’s season three, maybe.

I'm really glad they asked him about Egwene!

Rand only reunites with his friends from the Two Rivers at the end of the season, and we haven’t seen how they are around him [after] knowing that he’s the Dragon yet. Can you say anything about what that dynamic is for season 3? Are they afraid of him?

Josha Stradowski: I think for all the main characters, they get what they need, and that is each other, but for all of them comes the internal conflict that they also feel like they need to become something else. It's like this growing pain, and I think Rand has that quite a lot. I feel like he wants to be there for his friends, he knows that he needs to be there for them to protect them, and the other way around as well, but he also needs to become the most dangerous men alive. How can you do that with someone that knows your dad, or the girl who kissed you for the first time? I don't know if that's Egwene, but in my head it is. So, I feel like they all struggle with this growing pain, but you see why they are friends, and you see why they are together; why they are the main characters of this story.

More that implies that we're going to be seeing EF5 interactions before they split up.

Collider also talked to him:

I've been reading the books, as well, and I think that's one of the sadder parts of Rand's journey, as you see how he's viewed through other characters, and the sadness of them reconciling their memories of him with the person that he now is kind of forced to become. Speaking of love relationships, though, I talked to Ceara and Rafe about Rand and Elayne's first meeting. What was important to capture in hinting at what this relationship is going to be, as well as the surprise of that connection? It feels like these are two people looking at each other for the first time and thinking, “You're going to be someone special.” STRADOWSKI: Yes. And that's what I take away, quite often, from the books as well. I have that with Selene, for example. There are a lot of moments where Rand can't get a word out of his mouth because he's so in shock at the beauty of this woman in front of him — and we didn't really have that with Selene, not like that in the TV show, but we did have it for Elayne. It's, like you said, a hint of what it could be, but I feel like it's subtle. It's a gradual thing which needs to be organic, and we might have some of that in Season 3, but I can't spoil that.

He talks a lot more openly about Selene/Lanfear in general -- which makes sense, because that's the relationship that was on the screen in front of us, while the Elayne relationship is gonna have a lot more spoilers involved -- but we get this hint here and I like hearing that the plan for Rand & Elayne is to be gradual and organic (which will be a big contrast to how the Rand/'Selene' relationship was introduced).

I will point out that Josha seems pretty careful overall about spoilers, mostly talking about things pretty vaguely and with ambiguity, so it feels like part of why he's talking about Lanfear so much is because she's one of the few things he's allowed to openly talk about at this point.

Lan training Rand is something that I think fans are excited to see, so I'll ask you the same question that I asked Daniel: can we look forward to that in Season 3? STRADOWSKI: What did Daniel say? He said he's back on the Warder diet, but then he also referenced your recent Instagram post and said that he needs to trim up to stand next to you. STRADOWSKI: Well, you can tell him I'm on the Dragon diet. Like you said, I'm also very excited to finally see some Lan/Rand swordfighting. I think it's time.

It cracks me up that Josha feels out how much Daniel might have spoiled before he says anything.

#wot s3 speculation #wot speculation #wot #wheel of time #wot on prime #wot s2 spoilers #wot 2x8 spoilers #wot book spoilers #the fires of heaven #we're supposed to get more interviews dropped tomorrow i think #but i am also leaving to go visit family for the holidays tomorrow #so i may or may not be able to look through them #depending on when they get released

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