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queenofmalkier · 5 months

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Moiraine being 70 vs 40

(Alright this one took me a minute because corralling my thoughts is a challenge in the best of times.)

To begin with I will admit... I am one of the people who was indifferent towards the age change in the beginning. They're Aes Sedai, they live nice, long lives, and I wasn't like, emotionally attached to a younger, canon-aged Moiraine. It does make her early years more poignant, but I'll touch on that later.

Primed for older Moiraine, the show started and after two seasons I can safely say I am so gung-ho for 70 year old Moiraine I might actually be feral.

Here's why I, personally, think it was an excellent choice: Rosamund Pike is 44 as of writing this, so she visibly fits into the book age. As an audience nobody is really questioning her age - a few show-onlys I watched season 1 with actually remarked on how refreshing it was to see an older female character allowed to just exist and be part of the narrative without trying to sex up and/or grandma-ize the role.

Little Did They Know.

So you've got an audience that's mostly accepting of this character being in her 40s, and then you hit them with "Oh she's 70 and lets explore just how horrific that fact actually is together, it'll be fun!"

It was not fun, it was gutting.

One of my main critiques of the book has always been how we have these long-lived women, powerful women... but we never really take much of a look at the reality of that concept. Nor are we given POV characters who are really old enough to remark on it. Pevara at least thinks about her family, but Cadsuane doesn't give two figs about hers.

And here's the thing... they're Aes Sedai, but they're still human. What happens to them as they get older, but the people who fill their life are the ones aging? How does it feel to watch a mother, a sister, a child, friends, acquaintances, EVERYONE succumb to time in a way you won't for a very long time after?

That has to be impactful and I wanted to see those stories - and the show delivered. Seeing Moiraine with Anvaere? Chilling, horrifying, heartbreaking. Liandrin and her boy? A kick in the teeth. Even Alanna with her family, knowing very well she's probably the oldest one sitting at that table.

The point is, being an Aes Sedai means being powerful and respected, but it also means living through a very specific kind of suffering and trauma. They're basically vampires in terms of lifespan and we should see how that shapes them.

In regards to Moiraine being older and therefore not basically a child during the foretelling, it does change that particular hit... but by no means did the show let the viewers not understand how that moment altered Moiraine's life forever.

Instead of her being sort of an unformed girl hardened and honed by a lifetime of searching for Rand, one who never got much chance to be anything else, we get a woman who was already beginning to build her life, who had achieved the shawl, found love, and was exactly where she wanted to be.

And then all of that is taken from her.

It's devastating to watch the double-barreled whammy of Siuan and Moiraine giggling about being fishwives and walking into what was in many ways their deaths. Because the Moiraine and Siuan they were before walking into that room were gone forever. They would never be able to go back to the women they were before. They never even had a chance to mourn that loss. Moiraine went hunting and Siuan set her sights on the Amyrlin Seat.

I do understand for a lot of people her age is a sticking point, and that is completely fair and valid! It's a change that I fully agree did not need to be made... but by making that change we're given such a stark insight into the lives of older Aes Sedai who are just beginning to experience what it means to outlive everyone they know, watching one by one as cherished friends and family members pass on.

Soon all they have left are the children and grandchildren of those people, fractured mirrors that are just enough of a hint at the original that it must be painful to know them - which explains even further why so many Aes Sedai cut off contact entirely with their families. It's too painful to keep them in their lives.

#wheel of time #wheel of time tv series #wheel of time book spoilers #moiraine damodred #can i make it work responses

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markantonys · 7 months

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THEEEEE POINT of rand is that, in the end, the reason he's able to succeed where lews therin failed is NOT his power, it's his good heart and the support of his found family. in the end, he's not a warrior hero, he's a philosophical hero. rand's fight in the last battle is a fight of philosophy and ethics, and it's his friends who are out on the frontlines of the physical fighting, leading armies and protecting him.

so people complaining that the battle with ishy was changed from Solo Rand Power Trip To Show Why He Is More Special Than The Other Characters to a moment of all his friends gathering together to support him, protect him, fight with him, and remind him that he is not alone in this and that they're stronger when they're together...............i'm sorry, but i truly don't think you read the same books i did. (and before you come for me, rand is my second favorite character in the whole series after elayne, so don't come in here saying that i Just Don't Get It because i don't love him enough.)

#this was a PERFECT mirror of the last battle #and a perfect encapsulation of a number of Series Themes (not least: it was about them all!!!)#for the love of god rand will OBVIOUSLY get his Big Power Trips during a time in the show WHEN IT MAKES SENSE FOR HIM TO BE THAT POWERFUL #next season will be ALL ABOUT him leveling up his powers and abilities. so CHILLAX #and appreciate all the beautiful work the first 2 seasons have put into his character and his relationships with others #that groundwork will be CRUCIAL in the journey to come. far more crucial than him getting big channeling moments right now #rand al'thor #wot #wot on prime #the wheel of time #wot book spoilers #wot show spoilers

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jaqobis · 10 months

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Mat: Looks like we can't manwhore, mansplain, manipulate our way out of this one.

Rand: Shame...manslaughter it is, then.

#has this been done already?#lbr this is basically their mid-series relationship #wot book spoilers #wheel of time #mat cauthon #rand'althor #cauthor #words

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asha-mage · 7 months

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Here's what I'll say about Siuan for right now, since their are still a lot of unknowns floating in the air: I think her actions in this episode are largely in accord with her book characterization no matter which way the show breaks on certain details.

Siuan's central character flaw in the books, the thing that largely leads to her downfall, is her default response to most problems being to exert raw force and control. It was how she handled the Hall of the Tower which allowed opposition to coalesces around Eladia and Alviarain, it was how she handled Gawyn creating a resentment in him that would drive him to side against her during the coup, and how she forced Min to remain in the Tower against Min's wishes which was the catalyst for Eladia realizing she could strike against Siuan at all.

And it's what Siuan does in this episode when confronted with a problem she does not have another way to deal with. Moiraine is with holding information from her? Go to Cairhien herself and seize the tiller of events with her own hands. Rand is running wild, derelict in his duty? Take him captive and bring him to the Tower where at least he will be under her eye and safe from the Forsaken. Moiraine is attempting to abscond with him as a result? Cut off her avenue of escape by any means necessary, even if it means damaging her personal relationship with Moiraine, possibly forever.

And that's the other thing to keep in mind: Siuan, like Moiraine, fundamentally does not trust anyone except her partner in conspiracy. She can't. For twenty years she's been on a quest that will lead to her stilling and execution if it is ever discovered. She and Moiraine are each other's confidants and allies, their deepest and most important loves. But even in the books Moiraine is withholding information from Siuan out of a sense of greater good. The difference is that in the show Siuan becomes aware of it in the show and of course she begins to doubt and loose trust in Moiraine as a result.

In her mind she has gone almost at once from being a partner, one half of a team that trusted in and depended on each other, to being on her own against the storm. If Moiraine didn't tell her about being stilled, what else might she be holding back? And if she is stilled, then realistically, how much good can she do for their cause now? How can she keep Rand safe from himself and the Forsaken, prepare him for what's coming, when she might not live another year? And that agony- that pain that the person she trusts and loves most didn't just betray that trust but also might not be around long enough for Siuan to be mad even be mad at her- has to be put aside because the mission, the duty, is everything to Siuan, just like with Moiraine. The stakes are too high for anything else.

So she falls back on the safety net of the Tower's traditions and secret plans. Take Rand to the Tower, keep him safe, prepare him for what's coming and trust to the Light for the rest. Take away his agency for his own good and the good of the world (something it should be noted she's wistful for the ability to do in TSR when she wishes she could keep hiim from a learning a word of the Prophecies, which is the same scene where she outright admits to Min she intends to try and control him in), and bring him firmly under her thumb. And what does Moiraine do? Enlist the aid of one of the Forsaken to break Rand free and flee to Falme through a Waygate, which is at best an INSANELY risky and potentially very stupid play, and at worst tacit confirmation of her worst fear, that Moiraine has gone over to the Shadow, and everything is on the brink of being lost.

And where does that leave Siuan? Isolated and alone and with no other fallback by her same response: to keep exerting raw force, to pressing the spring down until it snaps.

#WoT #Wheel of Time #WoT on Prime #Wheel of Time on Prime #WoT Meta #Siuan Sanche #moiraine damodred #Siuaraine #Siuanraine #WoT Book Spoilers #TSR Spoilers #I don't necessarily buy the theory that either Siuan has been compelled #Or that this is a Deep Play by her and Moiraine #Though of the two I'm more inclined to believe the later #Though it would mean we need a missing moment of Moiraine and siuan re-establishing their broken trust in the throne room #immediately prior to or after the reveal #I also just keep tilting my head because people keep surfacing the quotes from late series siuan about the oaths #when that's a lesson she had to learn as a RESULT of the events of the coup #partly through having her idealism restored by teaching egwene to be amyrlin #fair warning: I am always down for good faith discussion #but I will block without hesitation for bad faith takes or clowning

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thenotoriousscuttlecliff · 8 months

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Saw a review of Wheel of Time S2 that said they depart from books by pulling the characters in too many directions with not enough to do and I was like "Dude, there's nothing more Robert Jordan than pulling the characters in too many directions with not enough to do"

#wheel of time #robert jordan #wot on prime #i love this series #but dear good did they grind to crawl later on #everything in those five books really could've been done in two #which is how i think the show will handle them #at most I think they'd do two and half seasons and probably throw in book eleven as well #and then a season and a half for the last three books #which is really just one massive book split in three parts

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tiredmoonslut · 2 months

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Me: *fully convinced the Aes Sedai don't use hand movements for channeling except for maybe, like, fireballs, and that all the body movement in the show was purely a show convention

*Robert Jordan randomly revealing in book eight that the Aes Sedai have been using hand gestures for channeling the whole time

Me: What 😀

#the way he slowly reveals information throughout the series is so funny #had me so shook when Sorilea randomly brought it up to Cadsuane #path of daggers #the wheel of time #wheel of time #the one power #aes sedai #channeling #robert jordan #wot on prime #wot book spoilers

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aflawedfashion · 7 months

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I’m unconcerned with how the books ended - it would be such a missed opportunity if this show doesn’t end in a polycule with platonic Moiraine and Lan at the center.

This is Siuan and her wife Moiraine and her platonic husband Lan and his wife Nynaeve.

So easy.

Obvious ending.

#I will stand by my opinion that this show could do something truly interesting with these relationships #and they’re already changing the books in this regard #and I’m pretty sure moiraine and Siuan’s endings are not going to be the same #so why not keep up the relationship adjustments #will and grace retconned their entire series finale into a dream just so they could do over and make this kind of ending #it’s 2023 #we support platonic soulmates #who also have romantic soulmates #the wheel of time #moiraine damodred #lan mandragoran #siuan sanche #nynaeve al'meara

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halcyon-autumn · 6 months

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Robert Jordan and Narrative Focus

As I reread the series, I’m so interested in the “scenes” that Robert Jordan doesn’t directly describe. (Spoilers! Big spoilers!) In tFoH, Mat kills Couladin fully offscreen. Similar thing with was Suian’s stilling in TSR - the Sitters tell her that they’re deposing her, but she’s tortured and stilled off screen, and we don’t see her again until she’s in a cell with Leanne, trying to come to terms with what’s been done to her. There’s a bunch more moments - Osan’gar, a forsaken, getting killed (although it was pretty funny that he got wiped out, offscreen, by a minor character who was ostensibly on his side), Nynaeve and Lan’s wedding, the Asha’man forcibly bonding the Sisters who came to destroy the Black Tower, etc - but the Suian and Couladin moments really stand out to me.

My thought is that RJ just wasn’t interested in these “dramatic moments” as much as he’s interested in the lead up and the consequences and how the character’s personality 1.) gets them into those situations and 2.) mean that they react to those situations. RJ doesn’t care about the ~drama~ of Mat v Couladin. He cares about Mat’s inability to leave people to their probably deaths when he could help, and he cares about how Mat reacts to accidentally becoming a war hero. Similar thing with Suian - RJ is interested in how she ignores Min’s warnings and what’s happening in the Tower, and he also cares about her ironclad determination to bring Elaida down. I think it MUST have been a deliberate choice on his part to focus on these things, especially because it’s a very unusual choice for an author to make. At the end of the day, RJ loved a character study, and I think that’s part of the reason his writing style feels so distinct to me.

#it’s a very interesting choice tbh #and I think it’s really what makes RJ’s style so distinctive to me #sometimes it driver me crazier as a reader #but I think it ties into stuff I like about RJ #name his character focus #so *shrug*#wheel of time meta #wheel of time book spoilers #wheel of time book series #Robert Jordan #wheel of time spoilers

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x22817 · 1 month

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We are finally getting a much needed day off after a week of doctor appointments and testing every damn day 🙃

I'm hoping I can finish The Gathering Storm today!

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ajcope12 · 6 months

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I hope WoT season 3 opens with the Far Dareis Mai shoving their way to Rand just to pick at him like a pack of aunts telling him he needs to stand up straight and he’s not eating enough

#wheel of time #wot #unreasonably attractive fandom #rand #aviendha #wheel of time tv series #wot on prime #wot book spoilers

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markantonys · 8 months

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what she says: i'm fine

what she means: the purpose of elayne's COT bath scene is to show how taxing the reality of being a ruler is. even while taking a bath, which should be a moment of privacy and relaxation, elayne is still surrounded by people and still working, hearing reports and giving orders and mentally running through all the hundreds of issues she needs to deal with, and she can't even finish her bath without being interrupted by somebody demanding her immediate attention. and yet the only thing fandom got out of this scene is "haha elayne's obsessed with taking baths because she's a spoiled princess"

#justice for the COT bath scene!!!!!#i would bet my bottom dollar that rand actually has more bath scenes than elayne across the entire series #gee i wonder why she gets hate for them and he doesn't #elayne trakand #wot #wot book spoilers #the wheel of time

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toastandjamie · 3 months

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Okay so, I wanna preface this by saying that I have not read Sanderson’s other books so this is not a discussion about his actual abilities as a writer, and I’m not saying that he’s in anyway a bad writer. I do not envy the situation he was in At All, it must’ve been incredibly difficult to be given the responsibility of finishing such a long and beloved story as Wheel of Time. Trying to honor RJ’s story and characters when you are jumping in at the climax and expected to finish it in a way that the fans find satisfying when there is no way to make Every fan happy with the ending. Okay with that out of the way let’s talk.

So i have a lot of feelings about the final three books of Wheel of Time. There were many parts I enjoyed and there were also parts I was disappointed by. Personally, I felt like many aspects of the last three books felt rushed and incomplete and the pacing a bit odd in places and a lot of that comes down to the fact that it was originally meant to be one giant book, but like- that would’ve been ridiculous and I agree with the choice to break it up into multiple books. However I honestly think they should’ve just broke it up into more than three books to properly to pace them. There were a lot of things that Needed to happen that I think ended up causing certain things to get cut, for instance I do believe a big portion of both Mat and Min’s storylines in those last books were cut for time, specifically I think there was probably originally a lot more time dedicated to dealing with the Seanchen. What I believe to have happened is that Sanderson was given the notes about where the Black Tower needed to be and decided to dedicate the time to it and in exchange he cut the Seanchen plot line for pacing since the Seanchen were Technically already solved. Technically. Now controversial opinion but I did actually like Androl, however, I think he and the rest of the Black Tower suffered from having their storyline rushed. The plot line in the black tower should’ve started after the Ashaman with Rand betrayed them as we got to see the corruption already seeping into the Black Tower. Sadly that’s not what we got, but it honestly deserved an entire book to properly introduce it and it would’ve benefited from having pre-established characters that we cared about be more involved. Other parts of the story I think deserved more time dedicated to, the actual process of stealing the horn of Valere back from the White Tower, I wanted a heist mission with Faile and the Band but that is just personal preference lol. More time learning about Slayer and the red veiled Aiel, they were introduced and then promptly stopped actually mattering outside of being enemy fodder. Literally everything about Faine and the Evil of Shadar Logoth, Faine dying so quickly will forever disappoint me, he was a main antagonist since book one and his death felt very quick and unceremonious, like just tying up loose ends.

Next is issues with characterization. Once again I do not envy Sanderson’s job here at all. This type of thing isn’t easy but I can also see exactly where the issues were. Sanderson by his own admission didn’t understand Mat, and he Did get better at writing him but the damage was already done unfortunately and there wasn’t enough time to properly fix the issues with Mat’s characterization. Mat was not the only character whose characterization was flattened however, Aviendha and Tuon for instance also lacked a lot of their original nuance. I think it’s very clear where Sanderson struggled and that is with unreliable narrators. Characters that Sanderson seems to both enjoy the most and successfully write in a compelling way are characters who very straight forward and honest, their internal monologue matches their actions, and they reliably narrate their stories. Characters like Perrin and Galad thrived under Sanderson’s writing style. Androl is a very obvious example of this archetype being one that he’s comfortable writing. The issue he faced with both Mat and Tuon is that their unreliable narrators who act inconsistently to an outsider perspective and I think for Mat especially Sanderson struggled to get past his first impression of Mat. The biggest issue with Sanderson’s version of Mat is that his character arc was reset, Sanderson’s Mat was still running away from his destiny and trying to avoid Rand, something Mat had already worked past in books four and five with Melindra and the Rhavin incident teaching him to accept his destiny and embrace his role as Rand’s General. This meant that Mat and Tuon’s relationship lost a large part of its nuance and Mat’s actions felt out of character and immature for the point in the story we reached. There’s also the difference in how RJ wrote Mat’s “flirtatious play boy” status versus how Sanderson portrays it and it can feel a bit jarring at times, and just in general, I feel like Sanderson often wrote Mat as “stupid” where he very much isn’t. He’s reckless and mischievous but never stupid and I think Sanderson equated his recklessness with stupidity in some places.

Writers play favorites, and it does show, RJ’s favorite was Mat and Sanderson’s favorite was Perrin and both are very obvious preferences. Poor Rand was neither writers favorite but it’s okay because as the protagonist he at least got consistent page time dedicated to him. RJ definitely paid more attention to Mat than Perrin and Sanderson did vice versa. So I’m not complaining just because I wanted Mat to get more page time. My issues with it are that Mat ended up feeling a bit underwhelming during the last battle. Where all other characters got to have their spotlight moment during a Memory of Light, Mat didn’t; and perhaps that’s because Towers of Midnight was originally part of a Memory of Light so Mat had got his big moment in the final book during the original draft. The Seanchen overall felt like it was resolved in an underwhelming manner, as did the Shadar Logoth plot line and it just so happens that both of those plot lines were Mat’s and I do think Sanderson’s bias informed his decision at least subconsciously when choosing which storylines to trim down.

In summary I would’ve rather Sanderson made it five more whole books if it meant that all the plot lines could be given enough time to be resolved in a fully satisfactory way.

#wheel of time #wheel of time spoilers #wot meta #wot book spoilers #brandon sanderson wot books #literary analysis my beloved #I love this book series so much #I really wish I could’ve read the finale that RJ would’ve written

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theoldshadow · 8 months

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WOTS2WEEK - DAY FOUR- FAVORITE SCENE - rand's birth or just shaiel

#WOTS2WEEK #wotedit #wot on prime #wot books #literary edits #;random crappy edits ;; mine #series : the wheel of time #userfish #tigraine mantear

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asha-mage · 4 months

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WoT Meta: Prophecies, Fated Lovers, and Robert Jordan's knack for finding the nuance underneath the myth

One complaint I've never understood about the way Jordan writes romances is the persistent claim that he over uses the 'prophesied love' trope.

In part for me, I think it's a little bit folks not seeing the forest for the trees. WoT is fundamentally about the relationship between myth and reality: the place where the fallen angel meets the disgruntled academic, the bitter accountant, and the man who never got over being too short. It's a story where the messiah is real and dealing with chronic pain and PTSD from his stigmata. Where a legendary High Queen has to deal with both marching armies to the apocalypse, and the irritating banal realities of being pregnant at the same time. Of course Jordan digs into the idea of prophesied love- it's a huge theme in folklore and mythologies the world over. Jordan wants to dig into what it really means for there to be a person out there that you are destined to be with: that is a match for you, decreed so by the universe itself....and that you get absolutely no agency and choice in choosing. If anything Tumblr, which adores the 'red string of fate'/'soulmark'/'soulmates share pain'/'world is black until you look into your soulmates eyes' (to name a few of the more prevalent ones- some of which Tumblr practically invented), should be super on board for the parade of fated lovers to be found in WoT. It's nothing short of baffling to me that their not more fondly viewed.

And I think that is tied to the follow up complaint: the criticism that Jordan 'uses prophecy love as a replacement for a romance arc'. But that is something that is just. Patently untrue.

Cause the thing is that is how soulmates are often used...in the majority of soulmate au fanfics you find here and on AO3- an excuse to get the really hard part (two characters realizing they are right for each other and love each other, then having the communication skills to articulate that so they can start a relationship) out of the way, so the author can focus on the fluff or angst or other part they and the audience want to get to. And that's fine! But that's not at all what Jordan does. Just like he does with the Prophecies of the Dragon, or Elaida's fortellings, or even just most of Min's viewings- Jordan takes the idea of the prophecy soulmate, this person decreed by some higher power to be Perfect For You and being right about it, and digs deeper, shining it in different lights and attacking it from different angles. Jordan gives the concept of the soulmate teeth, explores the spines and the sharp points of it: is it real love if it's fated and not your choice? Can you trust your own feelings, or are they fate's design working against you as surely as Aphrodite worked against Helen or Eros against Apollo? What is it like, to see someone one day, and know, beyond a shadow of a doubt that you would love this stranger? This question mark? This wildcard?

Rand's relationships with Min and Aviendha, as well as Mat and Tuon's courtship are great examples of this conundrum. Min and Aviendha have completely opposite reactions to the same information that demonstrates their unique strengths and weaknesses as characters and people, while Tuon and Mat's courtship is all about two people who know they will marry trying to figure out what that means, without ever confronting the reality of those prophecies directly.

Min, as befits a Seer who has learned time and time again that her viewings can not be changed, has resigned herself in an almost fatalistic fashion to all of them, and to loving Rand no less. Min knows that she, and two others, will love him, and she accepts its inevitability the same way she accepts Colavere's death, or Logain's glory, or the shattering of the White Tower. What is, is, and there is no sense or point in struggling against it. What concerns her a great deal more is what she doesn't know- she doesn't know if Rand will love her in return, she doesn't know the identity of the other two women who will love him, and she doesn't know if he will fall in love with one or both of the others but not her. Add to that Min's own insecurities about how she stands out and doesn't fit what her society deems 'proper', between her crossdressing, and her offputting manners, and it makes perfect sense that she's worried about making Rand love her. She doesn't mind sharing him- she hates the idea of being in love with a man who doesn't love her in return, of being stuck like 'Elmindreda' of the stories, sighing and pining endlessly for a man instead of being able to act, to take control of her own fate.

So she takes control: she learns to flirt from Leane, works hard at making herself desirable, and also indispensable: with her visions, her advice, even just her emotional support to Rand when he otherwise has no one else. The irony is that whenever Rand thinks of Min prior to her return to his side in LoC, it's about how much he liked her earthy honesty and lack of wiles: how she was earnest and made him feel at ease, and didn't 'spin his head like a top'- and that's still what he loves about her after they get together: the fact that she isn't fooled by his front, that she sees him clearly and refuses to be driven away the way so many others are so easily. The point is that Min never had to change, and in the ways that matter she didn't- she only thought she did because of her own fatalism.

Contrast that with Aviendha, who, after learning about being destined to fall in love with Rand, does everything in her power to prevent that outcome- because she is a warrior, a soldier, who has never yet met a problem that could not be killed, endured, or retreated from. Aviendha values nothing so much as her honor and her word- she has promised to keep Rand safe for Elayne and what greater act of dishonor could there be in that situation then not just failing in that promise, but despoiling (and she does view it that way) said man herself? So she is awful to him in the hopes of poisoning the well of affection or at least keeping him far enough away that she is never tempted. Aviendha hurls contempt and anger at him, berates him, does everything short of trying to stab him in an effort to make him hate her, and it doesn't work. Despite all her efforts to keep her thorny wall up, they are literally made for each other and can not help but be drawn together time and again. Despite all her efforts to insist, to him and herself, that she hates him, she can not hide entirely that the opposite is true: that she likes him, sees his strength and courage and resilience, and is a little in awe of his generous kindness.

This is why she vacillates wildly between wanting desperately to get away from him in The Fires of Heaven, to not wanting to leave his side: they are two planets caught in each other's gravity, with about as much chance of escaping each other. When she resorts to the last recourse of a soldier- retreat- and runs headlong into a blizzard that would surely kill her, Rand follows to try and save her life and she can deny the truth that she loves him no longer, nor can she resist taking him, even knowing that to redress that balance, she will one day have to offer her life to Elayne (as she attempts to do in LoC)- though fate still has other plans in store.

But in many ways the apex of this, the relationship that really shows Jordan's deconstruction of this trope, is Mat and Tuon. Before they ever lay eyes on each other, each is given a prophecy that they will marry the other: not that they'll love each other, not that they will be able to trust each other, not even that that will like each other: just that they will marry. And their strange courtship is a result of this knowledge, as each attempts to suss out the other, to try and understand them without ever overplaying their own hand. Each believes that the moment they admit their prophecy they will destroy any chance of real connection or understanding.

To Tuon, if Mat learns he is destined to wed her he gains something she can not abide: power over her, leverage that could be used to subvert her own plans and visions- because nothing matters more to Tuon than control, especially over herself. So she keeps her 'fortune' secret and tries to figure out: What will it mean to be married to Mat? Will he be a pretty trophy? A liability? A threat to her Empire? Will she have to kill him once she gets her heirs?

To Mat, if Tuon learns of his prophecy, she gains the power to take away his freedom, to snare and collar him and bind him to her, because that's how Mat deep down views marriage: as a binding cord, a loss of freedom, and nothing matters to Mat more than freedom. So he keeps his *Finn gained knowledge secret and tries to figure out: What will it mean to be collared by Tuon? Will she she treat him as a pretty and plaything the way Tylin did? Will she try to use him against Rand and the Westlands? Will she make him a slave and sent him to be beaten anytime he disobeys her? Will he have no choice but to fight her one day, this woman he is going to swear to spend his life with? Will he have to kill her the way he did Melindhra, and carry that guilt of mariticide on top of all else?

So the two stay in their strange limbo, because as long as they don't admit it out loud to the other, they can pretend they are still two people forced together by happenstance, and (each thinks) they can continue to try and understand and figure out the other, to find out where this inevitability of their marriage will really leave them, and if there can be even the faintest possibility of love in such circumstances. And that limbo- that protracted refusal to act as if they are under fate's direction- is what allows them to build a genuine bond of trust and respect for each other, and to start seeing the other person with the clarity that love requires. All this, so that when Tuon finally does play her hand, and reveal the truth....it's obvious they've long since fallen in love with each other (even though Tuon won't admit that to herself), and come to trust each other (even though Mat won't admit that to himself).

And the thing is- all of Jordan’s prophecy romances are written like this: from Egwene seeing that loving Gawyn might be both their downfalls in LoC and seeking him out anyways, to Perrin misinterpreting the 'falcon and hawk' viewing and thinking Faile is a danger to him when she's the love of his life, to Galad and Berelain not even being AWARE they’re fated to fall in love and just....do, at wild first sight (Another classic folklore/mythology trope). They also never find out: always remaining unaware that the Pattern had long since decreed that they would be together and being incredibly funny/annoying about it. The prophesied love is an example of classic Jordan: taking a common, maybe even ubiquitous premise, and asking those complicating questions that allow him to write it as something much more nuanced and interesting and fascinating. And he gets no credit for it, send tumble.

#Wheel of Time #WoT #Robert Jordan #WoT Meta #Wheel of Time Meta #Min Farshaw #Aviendha #Rand al'Thor #Mat Cauthon #tuon athaem kore paendrag #randmin #avirand #mat x tuon #matuon #WoT Book Spoilers #TOM Spoilers #I wanted to write more about some of the other Fated Lovers pairs in the series but this already got insanely long

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