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tavina-writes · 1 year

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NMJ, JGY, and Vices/Hobbies Meta

So, I’ve been thinking a lot about this particular quote from MDZS chapter 49, which is often cited as “NMJ has no hobbies canonically besides killing Wen and practicing saber” and I have to say that after reading the Chinese version I don’t? Necessarily agree? I don’t think this is what that scene was about at all.

This is going to be long, so meta under the cut.

The Fantranslation of the passage in question:

Jin GuangYao nodded lightly and sat as he had been told, “Brother, if you’re concerned for HuaiSang, softer words would do no harm. Why this?”

Nie MingJue, “Even when a blade’s at his neck he’s still like this. Looks like he’ll always be a good-for-nothing.”

Jin GuangYao, “It isn’t that HuaiSang is a good-for-nothing, but that his heart lies somewhere else.”

Nie MingJue, “Well you’ve really discerned where his heart lies, haven’t you?”

Jin GuangYao smiled, “Of course. Isn’t that what I’m the best at? The only person whom I can’t discern is you, Brother.”

He knew of people’s likes and dislikes so that he could find suitable solutions; he loved running errands and could do twice the work with half the effort. Thus, Jin GuangYao could be said to be quite a talent at analyzing others’ interests. Nie MingJue was the only person whom Jin GuangYao couldn’t probe out any useful information about. Wei WuXian saw this already, back then when Meng Yao was working under Nie MingJue. Women, liquor, riches—he touched none; art, calligraphy, antiques—a pile of ink and mud; the finest green tea leaves and dregs from a roadside booth—there was no difference. Meng Yao tried everything he could think of yet still couldn’t find if he was interested in anything beside training his saberwork and killing Wen-dogs. He really was a wall made of iron, impenetrable by even the sharpest blades.

And here's the official translation of the passage in question:

Knowing a person's likes and dislikes, and then catering to them accordingly, made getting things done easier. You could accomplish your goals with half as much effort. As such, the ability to discern people's desires was truly Jin Guangyao's forte. The only person he could never seem to pry any useful information out of was Nie Mingjue. Wei Wuxian had seen this firsthand, back when Meng Yao had worked under Nie Mingjue's command. The man never laid his hands on women, alcohol, or material wealth; paintings, calligraphy and antiques were all piles of ink and mud in his eyes. Top-grade premium tea tasted the same to him as dregs from a roadside stall. Meng Yao had racked his brain and still failed to identify anything Nie Mingjue might have a taste for, other than training with his saber every day and killing Wen dogs. He was truly an iron bastion, with no weaknesses to exploit. Volume 2, Page 319

I’ll go through with the chinese, my own translation based on what the Chinese says, [explanations of a few word choices along the way] and the analysis of what this actually means.

金光瑶微微颔首，依言落座，道：“大哥既是关心怀桑，稍平和些劝诫也是好的，何必如此？”

聂明玦道：“拿刀架在他脖子上逼都这样，看来是打死也不成器了。”

金光瑶道：“怀桑非是不成器，志不在此而已。”

聂明玦道：“你倒是把他志在何处摸得一清二楚。”

金光瑶笑笑，道：“那是自然，我岂非最擅长于此？唯一摸不出来的，也只有大哥了。”

Jin Guangyao nodded slightly, sank into a seat, and said "Since Da-ge is worried about Huaisang, wouldn't it be better to persuade him calmly?"

Nie Mingjue said, "Even when I've got a knife on his neck [aka even though NHS is being forced to do whatever] he's still like this, it seems like even if one beat him to death it wouldn't make him become good at it." <-- this seems to be a response to JGY's "why don't you try to persuade him to practice saber gently and calmly? to which Da-ge is like "if I can't get him to do it while yelling at him, lmao you think gently critiquing him will help? lol"

Jin Guangyao said, "It's not that Huaisang is useless, it's just that his strengths don't lie here [with the saber]" <-- I'm assuming that since NMJ and NHS were yelling about saber stuff before JGY got there that JGY and NMJ are still talking about NHS and the saber business

Nie Mingjue said, "It seems like you've got him entirely figured out."

Jin Guangyao laughed and said, "isn't that natural? I'm predisposed to this [figuring out people/finding out what they like] the only person who's still murky is Da-ge."

This particular conversation is not particularly antagonistic! JGY is trying to persuade NMJ that he could persuade NHS to practice the saber with honey and NMJ is like “I don’t think that’s probable.” and then JGY says “oh, saber isn’t really NHS’s skillset!” and NMJ says “looks like you have him all figured out!” and then JGY laughs and goes “I’m a natural at figuring people out, but Da-ge you’re really mysterious to me. (also the only person mysterious to me, people who are called Jin Guangyao)” Like, idk, this doesn’t sound particularly terrifyingly argumentative or upsetting to me.

知人喜恶，对症下药，最好办事，事半功倍。因此金光瑶在揣摩人嗜好上可谓是一把好手。唯有聂明玦，金光瑶试探不出来任何有用的信息。

Knowing people's likes and dislikes and [here the prescribing medicine is an idiomatic saying for "and then appealing to the root of their nature"] is the best way to get things done, to get the most reward for one's effort. Jin Guangyao, therefore, could be said to be a good hand at figuring out people's hobbies. Only in the case of Nie Mingjue, could Jin Guangyao not find any useful information.

The word for “hobbies” herein is 嗜好 which is another word for addiction. Now, there ARE other more common words for “hobbies” in Chinese and they are more commonly used when not referring to addictions, they are: yule and aihao. Yulei being “amusement, entertainment, recreation,” and aihao being “hobby, interest, thing one enjoys and takes pleasure in.”

Pleco screenshots here for emphasis on word meanings:

So the more accurate translation here is "Jin Guangyao, therefore, could be said to be a good hand at figuring out people's addictions."

当年孟瑶在聂明玦手底下做事时魏无羡就见识过了，女·色酒财一样不沾，书画古董在他眼里就是一堆墨水泥巴，绝酿佳茗和路边摊茶渣在他喝来没有任何区别，

孟瑶挖空了心思也没试探出来他除了每天练刀和杀温狗以外有什么特别喜好，简直铜墙铁壁刀枪不入。

听他语带自嘲，聂明玦反而没那么反感了，道：“你少助长他这幅德性。”

In the past, when Meng Yao was still working under Nie Mingjue, Wei Wuxian had already experienced this: feminine charms, wine, and wealth were equal in that [nmj] did not touch them. Painting and calligraphy, antiques were just a pile of ink and mud. There was no difference between him drinking excellent tea and the dregs from a roadside stall.

Meng Yao hollowed out his brains [spent a lot of effort thinking about this basically] and didn't figure out besides practicing the saber every day and killing Wen-dogs if he had anything else of particular habits. <-- THE XIHAO HERE IS NOT HOBBY. THE XIHAO HERE IS HABIT, ESP ONE THAT YOU'VE WORN A GROOVE IN.

He [NMJ] was just like an iron wall, neither swords nor spears could penetrate it.

Hearing [JGY's] self deprecation, Nie Mingjue, on the countrary, became not as upset, and said, "stop encouraging that part of his character" <-- talking about NHS's love of painting and fans again.

Now, the important thing to remember about this analysis of both 1) the dynamic between JGY and NMJ and 2) what JGY thinks NMJ’s hobbies, preferences, vices, addictions are is this: neither JGY nor NMJ are implied to have been talking or thinking about NMJ’s wartime preferences during this conversation or even during the war.

What JGY and NMJ actually say in this scene are peppered through with WWX’s own thoughts on observing this scene between them, and neither JGY nor NMJ actually say “JGY believes that NMJ’s only hobbies [during the time JGY served under NMJ at Langya front] are practicing the saber and killing Wen-dogs.] In fact, JGY and NMJ don’t mention 1) the Wen at all in this scene and 2) the only time they talk about saber training is the fact that NHS is doing 0 of it.

What they DO however, say to each other is this:

JGY: you could probably persuade Huaisang to train by persuading him gently!

NMJ: lmao if threats don’t work, bribes won’t either.

JGY: Huaisang isn’t useless, he’s just talented in other ways.

NMJ: you’ve got him all figured out haven’t you?

JGY: haha, you know me Da-ge, I’m a natural at figuring people out. Except you, Da-ge, you’re very mysterious.

NMJ: don’t encourage his [NHS’s] bad expensive habits.

In the middle of this conversation, Wei Wuxian from his own (not unfiltered or unbiased) perspective observes this about NMJ during wartime: "yeah that JGY, he's great at finding out people's addictions, he sure is! but Chifeng-zun doesn't really have any of those lmao. at least from back when I knew Chifeng-zun during the war. He doesn't like girls, doesn't like wine, doesn't like wealth, doesn't like calligraphy or paintings or antiques. Wow! Meng Yao must've worked really hard and found nothing!"

JGY and NMJ in fact, don’t talk about 1) the war 2) the wen or 3) NMJ’s interests, hobbies, vices, or addictions here at all. Nor does JGY claim that he spent a lot of time searching for NMJ’s hobbies and found only saber practice and Wen-dog killing. Nor does JGY claim to be good at finding out people’s addictions, he just made a joke about how NHS’s interests are really obvious and “but you Da-ge are a mystery to me.”

And thus concludes my dissertation about how this really says nothing about NMJ’s hobbies, interests or vices, he could be collecting incense burners and a lover of bubble baths for all we know.

#nie mingjue #jin guangyao #my meta #long post #meta #I'm so tired of the take that da-ge has no hobbies besides murder #we have no fucking idea what they are canonically #but that's not what this scene is saying #imagine making a joke about your da-ge being mysterious #and people taking it as all da-ge does is murder all day #is this nieyao? idk #rs: mutual therapy coffin

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