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almalvo · 1 year

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STAR TREK: DISCOVERY | S1E6 "Lethe"

[I will react to each episode individually and in full, raw reception and then post as is unrevised here onto my tumblr for the full span of every and all NuTrek episodes and series that have been and will be released. If this falls under your field of interest - I welcome your company in joining me. Enjoy the ride.] -------

oh this city is so pretty vulcan? yah oh pretty ship design they do the environments and ships suich glorious justice in this show lmao shirt that says "disco" on it only trekkies would understand ;) man this will be so interesting to see burnham rise to captaincy also aw i love her smile dang the way the phasers dissolve its targtes aww these horizontal lens flares gets me in the AOS lorca might have been happier were he born a klingon. oh my god this hologram animation was fucking GORGEOUS oh my god i LOVE the detail in the costuems gorgeous i like the overall tone of DISCO - but i think it gets nearer perfected in SNW injection why wow suicide bomber. spock. where are you. so much sarek. ugh the cooking up to it is just ughh oh my god space is gorgeous ugh this intro pleaseeeee

its very simple feeling but also so effective its so classy. sylvia. so brave. these meld sequences are so god burnham is so beautiful is that amanda. i am so confused what in the world what the fuck is happening that was such a weird meld scene mmm i feel like it couldve been cut a little differently imo "humanity's potential" and then she eventually meets spock though right like… oh my god what the HELL HAPPENS???? oh my god i want to take my time with this series but also want to just binge all of it i kinddddd of dont like the cinematographic style in the show

it feels so fast? i feel like we dont get a lot of time to just lets things settle and sink? could just be me but i still feel the pacing is a little odd in this series so far you break your fortune cookies like that lorca? messy. handcracker lorca over here. i love how clear saru's voice is through the prosthetics ok stamets. ok. we get it. we know what you like.

lorca's butt. that is all. this conversation is kind of cute when burnham lorca and stamets are all talking about sending DISCO into a nebulae hahah ugh space travel in humanity. imagine. ugh they did the composite editing so well in this. one thing though i LOVE the colourgrading its so saturated sometimes even overblowing the colours - i aint mad though in this case after many, many, many. episodes of trek that are in that old washed-out film (minus the remasters) - this is absolutely visually DELECTABLE. i feel like DISCO could better use a little bit more steady flatter moments in pacing

the show just never stops feeling so… antsy?? a little too much shakey cam ohhh fascinating that facial accessory in the exact position of hte meld spots since this is all retconned to the prime trek universe, it just makes me wonder how fleshed out a modern TOS would be from all this. at least i mean a "modern TAKE" ofc. ugh the urge to draw more spock in sex;y ass everyday wears on vulcan…. cough cough ok ok sry. ooo this is so odd to see all this happen its a big move to try to retcon such a major character into sarek's life i wonder how burnham's story ends. i mean. i know s5 is in the making j- but honestly where is this all GOing… and how does it relate to future Captain Pike and future First Science Officer Spock… i like lorca's smile. his dead eyes ugh. is this the space sexy time - i dont think i need it like this rn bruh not sure if im into lorca lorca time i cant lie the feeling of this series is kind of off i wonder if its because of the actors' delivery?

or maybe even more specificially sonequa's delivery?? idk why it feels a litttttle off since the first episode she feels like a more fresh actor i meant to say this since the first episode but i just wanted to see HE SAID SPOCK AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA but yeah sonequa (burnham's actor) feels a bit on the fresher side as an actor. not meaning to insult no no. she just feels younger/not as matured yet as an actor theres just soemthing slightlyyy amiss in her acting im not sure ugh these colours interesting bit of lore ugh this calligraphy wow lorca nice one u keep that under ur pillow ok im very intersted to see lorca's lore though hes a strong actor so far as well curious ok i dont like the cut-to-cut style of the filiming in this show its too whiplash fast no time to really breathe but more so no time to really just take in and appreciate the scene, if that makes sense? its almost disorienting i wish it was steadier SNW definitely did not feel like this in its filming style it was steadier, as i think is necessary imo

that was so fast. burnham is grateful to serve under a captain like lorca? where did THAT come from? it feels so sudden?? and feels very un-burnham. ok guys, its odd cuz it almost feels like Seven-of-Nine had more… life than Burnham?? these scenes arent allowed to mature and soak- why?? why do they pace it like t his? it almost feels like im seeing the fact thers a thousand words in this book, but the pages are turning before i can digest its story? its like there are sectillions of water droplets moving together, but yet are somehow not allowed to flow as the river it should be. thats what this show feels like. its so odd. i think its less that there is an "oddness of delivery" from the axtors, but more so the cinematography is just so flighty and impatient. and some is bc of a not-too-terribly-fantastic-screenplay visuals are def the best this show has demonstrated so far to me in its attributes i almost read "United Klingon" as "United Kingdom" lmao Saru and his twiddly fingers ugh i love his face his fucking heels though his heel feet heel stilt feet.

mmm captain battle-happy lorca. ok - well, i think this show so far couldve been filmed a little better - or at least editing direction couldve been different and more lax. if even a tad. its almost frustrating sometimes how WHIPLASH it is. a great example is that lorca x cornwell scene like you can almost acctually SEE shots that are so unnecessarily cut. i dont really like it - the camera-cut editing style takes away from the experience imo. it also makes certain deliveries worse than they are from actors' performances cuz the pacing is so whack sometimes even visually and audially. its still only season 1. ill see.

#star trek #star trek discovery #discovery #DISCO #nutrek #thoughts #text #reaction #almalvo

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tinderbox210 · 2 years

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Back to my AU shenanigans because @faiththevampireslayer provided me with a really great AU idea based on my last post (thank you again for sharing it and bless you for letting me post and ramble my excitement about it!).

The idea’s basically that Spock of the House of Sarek is matched/betrothed with La’an of House Noonien-Singh instead of T’Pring, which is already a great premise by itself but then I realized how amazing it would work as a Mirror Universe AU with an arranged marriage plot.

Bearded DISCO Spock has the right looks of MirrorSpock and Sarek’s already a dedicated diplomat/politician in the prime timeline who married Spock’s mother at least partly for diplomatic/political reasons so it wouldn’t be that far off to think MirrorSarek would take it a step farther and arrange a political marriage for his son as well.

And then I thought it would make so much sense for the descendents of Khan being a big number in the Terran Empire, so marrying would be like marrying royalty. I don’t remember if it was ever really stated how the Empire was created but I think it would be a neat tie to have it actually be the evolution of Khan’s regime. No idea if SNW will ever revisit the Mirror Universe after all the DISCO stuff, but imo something like this would give them the chance to bring Khan back into the mix without breaking prime timeline.

But back to the AU, La’an and Spock would definitely detest each other in the beginning with lots of tension filled bickering but then they would slowly (or fast) fall for each other. So it would have all the best enemies to lovers topes, even dipping into Pride and Prejustice territory, and I‘m really really here for this!

But if that doesn’t persuade you how amazing this AU would be, just look at that picture of Christina screaming “Heir of Khan”...

#star trek: strange new worlds #la'an x spock #la'an noonien singh #spock #i've thought about this AU a lot #and now i fear if no one is writing it i will have to try write it myself #well done #played myself again #my edit #spocklaanedit #spocklaan au #snw au

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joshuaalbert · 2 years

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not that anyone asked but if I was given like three hours to workshop one tng episode of my choice without significant disruption to a character arc, it would be 3x23 sarek bc I feel like it had so much potential for characterization and they backed away from it. like. everyone’s angry at each other, right? everyone’s pissed at each other for stupid things? so that’s a good start, but my instinct from there is to transition into people getting angry at each other for more significant things, and that’s the part they don’t really get into. this would be a great opportunity to explore tensions between people that may just be pretending to get along, or grudges between people who do genuinely get along but just have some lingering issues, or insecurities that would never come up otherwise. and sure, there are logistical issues with this in terms of balancing the A and B plots, and in reaching a resolution within the time limitations that allows these characters to want to work with each other in the next episode, because given the nature of the show at this point, this interpersonal conflict can’t really last, but I do think it’s possible.

(the naked now suffers from a somewhat related issue imo in that it should serve to reveal much more/deeper characterization than it does, but aside from being an arguably lesser tos rehash it was also slated far too early to be truly effective because the characters weren’t well-established yet so like……..I’d need more than 3 hours on that one)

#the three hours here is key there are a bunch I’d have to rebuild from scratch so they wouldn’t qualify #and some that just aren’t worth it lmao #but this one has fairly solid framework and the potential to be more yknow #tng #god I have no consistent tagging on this blog yet huh #my thing #san rant

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kingjasnah · 2 years

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could use some advice from other tos fans rn: what are some good starter episodes? cause im realizing i cannot separate 'eps that are both compelling and provide an intro to trek as a whole' with 'episodes that i like based on vibes'. is the one with the romans good or does spock just wear a little hat in it? is devil in the dark good or do i just think the horta is fun and cool and i love her magma shag carpet vibes and we should hang out

#right now i actually think the best starter ep is the naked time #or maybe the corbomite maneuver? but in my heart i just want to watch eps with the highest percentage of spock #tos #st: tos #mitchell this is abt u but also im sending eps over to my brother to get him to crack and finally watch tos #and i guess like.....imo eps like this side of paradise of even city on the edge (💀) dont hit unless youve seen spock Be Like That #in other eps like he has small moments in every ep that all compound and suddenly ur watching the one with sarek and ur like. bro wtf #however this side of paradise DOES have the bones mint julep moment so

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a-noone · 2 years

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McCoy and Picard

I’m thinking about the fact that there is a 78 year age difference between McCoy and Picard. He’s about 95 when Picard enters the Academy. And if he has a Vulcan life span, which I posit he does *even in Prime* owing to having Spock’s katra so tangled up in his that the priests (in The Search For Spock) aren’t even 100% sure they’ll be able to successfully separate them -- and just like the whole Kirk and Tarsus IV thing, this was a real missed opportunity in terms of character development and continuity. And. Again. Even in Canon, the character lived AT LEAST until 137 (and, IMO, it looked at lot more like the above than depicted in the TNG pilot, ‘Why are you covered in dust?!’ included).

There is no known date of death. If you believe the whole Kelvin timeline where Spock vanished into a black hole, I accept that as the day McCoy exploded into granules of sand like a vampire who took a stake through the heart. Otherwise, as near as I’m concerned, he’s still somewhere in the ST: Picard universe, making trouble.

So, for reference, when Picard is a Freshman, McCoy is about as old as Sarek was during Season 1 of Discovery, give or take. He might look a little older, if you posit that he started aging at a Vulcan rate during Star Trek 3. But he’s by no means ancient. And if you imagine that this is some AU where he bonded to Spock during the 5 year mission, in some general McSpirk context, he’s just kind of solidly middle aged.

And I want more of that McCoy & Picard relationship. I want more of those two incredibly cantankerous men giving glorious, snarky speeches at each other, drinking bourbon and brandy, and arguing. I want to see them both pretending to be “the sensible one” right up until they have the same stupid idea at the same stupid time, and wind up in a Cardassian brig.

I want Spock casually asking Riker where McCoy is, and Riker casually answering, “With the Captain.”

And Spock shouting “NO” with his whole chest.

#Picard #McCoy #Spones #Star Trek

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ichayalovesyou · 3 years

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For all it’s not nearly as annoying as people make them out to be imo canon inconsistencies. One thing Discovery gets right INMEDIATELY is Sarek being a horrible dad.

#I really went ‘WHAT THE FUVK SAREK?’#when he basically told Michael her trauma wasn’t the problem and that SHE (being human) was the problem #maybe Sarek’s parenting privileges should be revoked #every single one of his kids grew up to be treasonous drama queens #star trek #discovery #sarek #the vulcan hello

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qwertyfingers · 3 years

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Not to be too forward but please drop your TNG watch order.

okay tng is. complex. here’s how i’d do it I think. I’m jumping about a lot, and I’m also struggling to remember a lot of it because my first watch was 7 years ago and my rewatch w friends we just did Sherlock Holmes and then went straight into chronological order. so this is like, combo of a handful of eps I remember being plot important and just stuff that makes me laugh.

Elementary, My Dear Data (S2E3) and Ship In A Bottle (S6E12). a) introduces you perfectly to the concept of holodeck episodes, which will be important later b) DaForge married gay energy off the charts c) Picard is really fun. the only failing of this as a start is the tragic lack of Guinan

ALL of the Q eps. Speedrun the Qcard nonsense and get a lot of the overall show plot

Encounter at Farpoint (S1E1 and S1E2)

Hide and Q (S1E10) - unnervingly babyfaced Riker. you could skip this one but it lays some good basis for who the Q continuum are, but it’s kind of fun

Q Who (S2E16) - borg introduction! absolute must watch. The insanity of ‘to learn about you is frankly provocative… but you’re next of kin to chaos’ as a line alone, let alone the voice Patrick Stewart gives to it. Iconic episode.

Deja Q (S3E13) - Q getting turned into a human as punishment for being a naughty boy. V funny, must watch

QPid (S4E20 babeyyyyy) - MUST WATCH one of thee funniest episodes and experiencing the QCard speedrun from farpoint to qpid is a very special kind of brainworms

True Q (S6E6) - this one is skippable tbh, but it is pretty fond and I’m personally fond of running a full Q supercut

Tapestry (S6E15) - this one isn’t as fun as most Q eps but it is VERY TNG-ish and therefore a must watch. If you’ll forgive the pun, it really gets at the heart of Picard’s character

All Good Things (S7E25 and S7E26) - as with most Star Trek finales it’s not the best. You don’t have to watch this here but it can be a fun bookend for the Q speedrun

You could also go watch DS9’s Q-Less (S1E6) if you’d like to see Q get punched in the face, it’s really very satisfying

You kind of have to watch The Best of Both Worlds (S3E26 and S4E1). If you’ve seen TNG before, you don’t need to worry about when you watch it. If you haven’t seen any TNG yet, watch it here.

Darmok (S5E2) - THEE most star trek of all star trek’s. hmu if you ever want me to rant about Darmok I have a whole badly-structured personal essay about it ready to go at all times

Disaster (S5E5) - Geordi and Crusher teamup is really fun, and ‘executive officer in charge of radishes’ is the best line in all 7 seasons of TNG

Schisms (S6E5) - you could just watch from the opening until Data’s poetry recital ngl. The ep is decent and I’d personally watch it all but this ep is mostly about Data’s poetry.

Sub Rosa (S7E14) - Crusher fucks a ghost. iconic behaviour

Dixon Hill eps! They’re fun and silly and much like watching TOS’ A Piece of The Action

The Big Goodbye (S1E12)

Manhunt (S2E19) - Lwxana. I’d do anything for Lwxana

Clues (S4E14) - Guinan as Gloria is so much fun I love her and she should have got a full episode!!!!!

The Measure of a Man (S2E9) - important Federation and Data lore. Very emotional.

Yesterday’s Enterprise (S3E16) - Tasha’a back!!!!!!!! Just a very cool ep imo

Hero Worship (S5E11) - Extremely good Data ep, good content about Federation attitude to mental illness

Datalore (S1E12) - another important Data ep, and Lore is laways fun

The Offspring (S3E16) - Data wants to be a dad!!!

I, Borg (S5 E23) - HUGH!!! IT’S ALL ABOUT HUGH!!!!!!!!! (I like to watch this right after The Offspring because it’s direct parallels of geordi and data just wanting to take care of people)

Brothers (S4E18) - more Data (And Lore) content

Descent (S6E26 and S7E1) - not required watching, but Lore is fun and evil

Fistful of Datas (S6E7) - EXTREMELY SILLY GOOD FUN ALLROUND. CAN NEVER GO WRONG W ACOWBOY EP

Sarek (S3E23) - I can’t remember the plot I just know Sarek shows up in a lavender robe and has mad chemistry with Picard. I’m pretty sure they mind meld really hard??? Lord help me the old men you put on this spaceship to do politics are exploring eachothers’ minds in the most intimate manner possible <3

Unification (S5E7 and S5E8) - Spock attempts to re-unify Romulus and Vulcan. Iconic 2-parter, but definitely the kind of episode that benefits from watching with a friend so you can add commentary

if you like Romulan episodes you could watch the full Sela arc before this one (The Mind’s Eye S4E24, Redemption S4E26/S5E1, Unification)

Face of The Enemy (S6E14) - I can’t remember the entire plot but I’m pretty sure it was good and I love a good Romulan ep

The Host (S4E23) - Trill introduction!!!! So good.

The Game (S5E6) - profoundly stupid but worth it for how funny the graphics for the game are

Cause and Effect (S5E18) - just a pretty cool one

Time’s Arrow (S5E26 and S6E1) - One of TNG’s strongest plots imo

The Inner Light (S5E25) - another banger plot; Picard gets hit by a psychic probe and lives an entire life in a history that has already happened. there’s a really good Spones fic based on this episode and I could read an au like this for any ship I swear

Relics (S6E4) - Scotty!!!! It’s fun

Chain of Command (S6E10 and S6E11) - another one of TNG’s strongest plots. The origin of the ‘there are FOUR lights’ meme.

Birthright (S6E16 and S6E17) - this is an infamous double parter but all I actually remember is Julian Bashir appearing and meeting Data

Ensign Ro’s intro ep Ensign Ro (S5E03) i LOVE her

The Next Phase (S5E24) - cool ep where Ro and Geordi get stuck out of phase and are invisible from the crew, pretty fun

and the end of her arc with Preemptive Strike (S7E24)

I personally love Barclay and just choose to live in a universe where the misogyny wasn’t happening and he was just a weird little man, but if he bothers you, you can skip his arc. Don’t skip Genesis tho it’s good

Hollow Pursuits (S3E21)

The Nth Degree (S4E19)

Realm of Fear (S6E2)

Genesis (S7E19) - perfectly batshit star trek fake science. I love it

Masks (S7E17) - extremely silly and therefore fantastic

after this point I’d go back and watch in order all the way through, or look up a watch order for eps that are actually important plot-wise :’)

#st tng #long post #mine #tv

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kinetic-elaboration · 3 years

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August 15: 2x03 The Paradise Syndrome

I have seen this episode once before and I remember it being pretty awful... but tbh, I didn’t think it was so bad this time around. Maybe that’s just because my expectations were, like, Spock’s-Brain low. It definitely had issues but there was stuff I liked too!

Hmmm, that’s not the bridge. It appears to be... California?

Wondering what people might be so “blessed by this environment”--what a manly he-man action/adventure guy thing to say, amirite?

How does Spock know the significant markers of all the Native American tribes at a distance, off the top of his head?

(Answer: he doesn’t; all of this information is wrong and also one of those tribes is completely made up lmao.)

Honestly, who’s to say these people aren’t advanced? How do YOU know?

“Just so peaceful... no command decisions.” Oh no, Jim’s feeling Romantic again.

Honestly, imagine this characterization in AOS: overworked starship captain think he wants a break (but is wrong). Beyond made a vague attempt but missed what it is that Kirk finds stressful about command--it’s not that it’s boring, it’s the weight of the responsibility and the inability to find love.

Although funnily enough, even on his Native American Vacation, he still finds himself in a command position. He just can’t be stopped. Anyway, I’m getting ahead of myself.

Oh no, the obelisk ate him.

Maybe these people specifically built the obelisk so that they could return to this idyllic ““primitive”“ state, hmm? Maybe they like their lives this way. Maybe they experienced "progress" and then decided that whatever era of their development looked like indigenous American peoples had it right. (This is not correct but it roughly is the plot of Errand of Mercy so I’m not without precedent.)

Spock’s using simple tools to explain his point to Bones lol. “Here, let me dumb it down for you, lesser man of science.”

“Who am I? What are these?” Cpine morning voice: “This must be a dream!”

Kirk looks so confused. The god from the obelisk.

“The engines are showing signs of stress.” Seems to me like SCOTTY’S showing signs of stress.

And yet the music is so whimsical.

Honestly Kirk’s expression here = Denny Crane’s when in a meeting

White man brings CPR, is hailed as god. (I wish I were making this up.)

Damn, Salish has been demoted. How embarrassing for him.

This is a VERY interesting Spock. He does all his calculations, but the he takes all the risks. He’s very certain and single-minded, almost obsessed, not afraid of anything. I think it’s IC but I also think you can see some Kirk influence, perhaps... You can see how Spock has grown in his command abilities since The Galileo Seven.

The wise ones = the aliens.

“He died before he could tell Salish the secret” to opening the Obelisk and stopping the asteroid. That IS unfortunate.

“How does this shirt open?” Lol.

“Your name is Kirok?” “Yeah, sure, whatever.”

“I’ve never been this happy and peaceful.” Funny how he looks neither happy nor peaceful. Maybe it’s something like “I’ve never been this happy and peaceful...and I don’t like it.” Or “I’ve never been this happy and peaceful... there must be something wrong.”

“Here there is much time. For everything.” No there isn’t, there’s an asteroid coming.

Kirk’s cottage core fantasy.

Poor Scotty, so stressed out. Maybe he needs some time with the indigenous aliens.

The Joining Day? Lol okay.

Kirk has no chill, at all. “Oh, you want to get married? Tomorrow? Okay!!” Is this how Gary was able to successfully distract with him the blonde lab technician?

The “stardrive.”

“Estimated repair time?” “FOREVER.”

“And you lost Jim.” Cool it Bones, there’s no need to be cruel. Spock’s already in his thinking pose so you know he’s taking this seriously.

Love Spock’s chair. That’s not Starfleet regulation.

“I have found paradise.” Is he high??

Requisite highly choreographed fight scene.

“You’ve barely eaten or slept for weeks.” That’s because he’s worried about Jim. And the giant asteroid. This is a great Spock and McCoy scene though.

I can’t believe this. Spock lies down (barely!) and McCoy just leaves like he actually thinks he’s won, and then Spock immediately gets up again to go back to work.This guy is even easier to fool than Sarek.

You know Spock spent his whole adolescence going "Sure, I'll do the thing" and then just not doing it.

“A strange lodge that moves through the sky...” Well okay.

Okay I’m sorry, is he sensing the enterprise or is he sensing SPOCK? Because most of this dialogue might just imply he’s generically remembering his old life... but he also specifically says that the “flying lodge” was farther away and now it’s closer again, and how he could he know that otherwise?

She’s pregnant? That’s not good lol. AWKWARD.

Also the closest that TOS will ever come to acknowledging people have sex.

Omg he made a lamp. He made a lamp on his first day there. Does this imply that Captain Kirk had an arts and crafts phase?? Like CPR I understand him knowing--I’m sure everyone in Starfleet does. But hand-carving a lamp? That’s a whole other skill.

Various cultures including “certain Vulcan offshoots” use music notes as words omgggggg I love this information PLEASE tell me more.

“The Preservers” is a good concept imo. Nifty sci fi innovation: taking aliens from endangered places and giving them a new place, then setting it up nicely for them.

Stop throwing things guys! It’s not helping!

“I need Nurse Chapel.” Damn right you do.

Spock really doesn’t like that “wife.” He sounds like “Wife?? How dare??”

Then he suggests it’s a hallucination even though there’s a woman right there.

"Naturally, since he did not come from there. He's my man, get your paws off him."

Vulcan mind fusion? What the heck is that? How is it season 3 and they still don’t know what to call it?

“He is an extremely dynamic individual.” Spock was really taken for a ride in that brain.

“The landing party is expendable.” There’s the Captain.

“I have an excellent eye for musical notes.” Brag.

“Just press the right button.”

Looks like Spock was the god they wanted all along.

Okay, that was an uncool ending though. I know they basically had to kill Miramanee as soon as she was pregnant but like, there was also no reason for her to be pregnant??? I would have preferred if (1) Miramanee hadn't been pregnant, (2) Jim got over her as soon as he regained his memory and (3) she lived and they just parted awkwardly.

Also I think it would have been nice if they had ended with the Enterprise explaining to Salish how the obelisk works, and then maybe even a hint that he and Miramanee will get back together. Like, maybe not that, since I’m not a fan of women just being used to, like, make men feel better--though I’m also not a fan of them being fridged because of Inconvenient Baby--but he should have at least gotten his position back and, more importantly, the knowledge he was always entitled to. Also, the very existence of an asteroid deflector, along with the people’s extensive knowledge of what weather signifies Oncoming Asteroid, implies this happens to them with some frequency. So in other words, the threat will return.

Plus Salish never got enough credit for being right, which he was! The whole time!

Oh and also I would have liked some acknowledgement that Jim does like being Captain. If you watch the whole show, you know that he occasionally bemoans the stress and his inability to maintain a romantic relationship, despite his love of long walks on the beach, but that he’s also ambitious, he loves exploration and adventure, he gets bored if left in one place too long, and he believes in the necessity of progress and discovery to keep not just individuals but societies from stagnation. But if you just watched this episode, you’d think he’d never been happy in his entire life, and that returning to command makes him miserable.

Aside from the Native American stuff--which was awkward and rather unnecessary and has aged, as you might imagine, very very poorly--I actually didn’t hate the episode. It had some VERY interesting Spock stuff, which I think is within a reasonable Spock characterization, and some great Spock and Bones moments. Kirk’s story line was surprisingly engaging for him being completely separate from the crew, and the general theme that he sometimes needs, or thinks he desires, a break from command, is definitely in keeping with other episodes. I liked the asteroid as the Big Danger, which was surprisingly dynamic--by which I mean, it did a good job of connecting the very disparate story lines on the Enterprise and on the planet. I also liked the Sci Fi Concept of the week in the Protectors. And it was interesting to see an ep take place over a longer period of time.

None of this is to downplay how awkward the Native American elements are--incredibly fetishistic, and also lazy--like, “I want to show something Simple and Idyllic...I know! Indians!” There was no reason they should look like American Indians. In fact, it makes no sense that they do: the Protectors take peoples from planets that are about to be destroyed and (somehow) discreetly move them somewhere else, but Native American peoples still.... very much exist? And so does Earth as a whole. So obviously these aliens weren’t transplanted from Earth. So why should their culture resemble some awkward mishmash of Native American cultures?

So overall I’d say, the ideas of the episode, the structure, the characterizations (mostly), and the overall ideas were good, but it was just very awkward and unfortunate that it chose the... aesthetic that it did--especially because it was very much an aesthetic choice and not a well-thought-out, culturally sensitive one. Gonna be honest and just chalk that up to it being 1968 though.

Next is And the Children Shall Lead, which I actually think was one of the first TOS eps I ever saw... But I don’t remember it at all. So we’ll see!

#the year 2021 #2021: star trek #star trek tos #2021: fandom thoughts

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mswyrr · 5 years

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thoughts on sarek and amanda

Sarek was born in 2165, just 10 years after the first official Vulcan/human couple was exposed and their hybrid baby died due to bigotry/terrorism. And just 11 years into the Reformation of Vulcan practices inspired by the discovery of Surak’s writings in the Kir’Shara. Prior to that a very conservative vision of their religion had developed based off interpretations of fragmentary accounts of his teachings. The writings would have taken decades to translate and then even more decades to consider and integrate, so he was born at a time of massive change into a very conservative society. The fact that he’s as much of a dreamer and visionary and as devoted to change as he is is actually quite impressive.

People at the forefront of change never have a map or help and so they’re often total weirdos who massively screw up, so he’s quite realistic from that pov. Particularly considering that the level of intense social control and uniformity on Vulcan is something we’ve never seen on Earth - so if Earth people who try to figure out new ways of being have struggled and been total weirdos, it would be even more true for this guy.

Sarek didn’t just need to stay on Vulcan because he thinks Vulcans are better: he’s devoted to transforming his home culture and society and he cannot do that on another planet. When Amanda isn’t totally pissed off at him, the fact that he’s so devoted to making change is probably one of the things she fell in love with.

When she’s not terrified for her child and furious with her husband, she probably also feels committed to the cause of promoting change. They got married 72 years after the first hybrid baby, Elizabeth, died. They would have known they were only the second open Vulcan/human couple in history and had to talk about what that meant, given what galactic bigotry did to T’Pol and Trip and their child. The line from TOS where Sarek tells Spock he married Amanda because “at the time, it seemed the most logical thing to do” - well, first off, LOL. But second... IDK how they didn’t have some deep convos and decide together to carry the burden of trying to make change in this society.

The fact that she feels, when she hits her limit, perfectly fine dragging his ass all over town and letting him know exactly what she’s feeling and he is like 😧😧 😧 but hearing her actually indicates how much deep love is there.

This is a guy who ripped off part of his Katra/soul and gave it to his daughter because he loved her so much he’d cause himself ongoing psychic harm (potentially ultimately leading to his Bendii Syndrome in later life) to preserve her life. I can totally see why long talks where Amanda came to understand the heart of someone who can be that giving and loving (and who loves his people so much and wants so much for them to change for the better) would lead her to falling in love with him.

Whatever they’re doing in the bedroom, the sex is probably mindblowing. Their physicality with each other is intense. I’m just saying ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They didn’t fuck their kids up that much worse than a ton of people who highly value academic excellence and push their kids too hard, who have a fundamentally repressed home life where emotions aren’t welcome, and who demand the impossible of their kids without realizing how damaging they’re being.

IMO they’re at just the right spot of fucked up but still deeply loving to be powerful to me, both as a couple and a family. There’s no family that doesn’t screw up in one way or another. And no romance where everything is perfect. Loving people means they’ll break your heart. I really like them. And I like that they’re at the heart of Michael’s story, where she’s invested in her family and figuring herself out through them.

If they were perfect there’d be nothing for the narrative or Michael to work with in terms of figuring herself and the human condition out. When you make family the core of the story, you have to let that family be kind of messed up because you’re using them to talk about what it means to be a person in relationship to others. Which always has some pain in it, even in the healthiest relationships.

#star trek discovery #amanda grayson #sarek #dsc meta #my meta

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starfleetdoesntfirefirst · 5 years

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Immediate thoughts/liveblog roundup...

- Michael’s voiceover gave me chills. Not only is the depth and nuance of the emotions that Sonequa Martin-Green puts into Michael’s words incredible, there’s just something amazingly powerful and hopeful about hearing the beginning of the “Space...” Star Trek opening voiceover spoken by a black woman lead, fifty years later.

- Michael pretty much overtly accusing Sarek of a) knowing when he adopted her that a Vulcan education and upbringing would fuck up a human child and b) adopting her for Spock’s benefit.....holy fuck

- Also, Michael having long natural hair when she was adopted that her foster parents and/or school then cut and straightened is indescribably fucked up.

- I was just starting to get incredibly frustrated with Pike basically acting exactly like Lorca–“I’m the heroic captain who’s going to Do The Right Thing No Matter What, and I Know What Is Best”–and then Michael stopped him in his tracks and the ENTIRE BRIDGE stared at him and judged him………beautiful.

- I might write more on this at some point, but as people have pointed out, one reason Lorca was initially seen as ambiguously heroic by some of the characters/audience despite all the manipulation and manslaughter was that he fit the common character type in U.S. popular culture of the heroic, rebellious male leader who Ignores Those Stuffy Rules and Does What He Knows Is Right. So it was particularly satisfying, and I’m sure (especially considering the overt discussion of Lorca’s standing desk later) deliberate, to see Pike get stopped in his tracks when he tried assuming (!) that he was the only one who was going to argue in favor of rescuing fellow Starfleet servicemembers (!!) and talking over his crew because he was so convinced that he was right and that it was time for him to give a Heroic Manly Leader Speech to prove it (!!!). I especially enjoyed that it wasn’t just Burnham who stood up to him, but that the whole bridge crew backed her up and Judged Him With Their Eyes. Immediately.

- Speaking of archetypes, “Skip your ranks. They don’t matter” is just the captain version of throwing the textbook in the trash and telling your students to call you by your first name.

- In some ways I am not a huge fan of how Pike’s style(TM) is pretty similar to Lorca’s style(TM) (“fly good,” “I was expecting a red thing; where’s my damn red thing?”), regardless of whether he trashes Lorca’s standing desk settup, since IMO Lorca’s style(TM) was part of the problem, but in other ways I can see how it could be cool to demonstrate that leadership can be formal/casual/jocular/careful/etc and that what matters is the underlying respect and motives and so on. Don’t love it, but willing to see where they go with it.

- My vague and fanciful but hopeful theory is that the Red Angel Thingy in this season is going to keep leading them from point to point where there are Starfleet (or other) survivors from the war so they can rescue people. <3 Which would fit in with the theme of healing from the war that Martin-Green keeps mentioning in interviews, and also be v. v. cool.

- So much bridge crew! Rhys! Airiam! Bryce! Joann! Keyla! Rhys has a first name and it is Gen! Joann and Keyla working together and making scared eye contact when Michael is in danger and smiling at each other in relief when Michael is safe!!!

- Background character using a wheelchair in Discovery’s hallways! It would be amazing if dsc does some disability representation this season--I mean best of all would be disability representation in the main cast AND background cast, but I am still very excited about this one dude.

- Speaking of which, I really really want a well-handled ep/arc about Keyla, who is disabled, and her ocular implant (but I confess that if it’s poorly handled by a writer who is neither disabled nor bothers to do their research and talk to disabled people, I’d almost rather not have it). Fingers crossed!

#star trek: discovery #dsc spoilers #discovery spoilers #spoilers #burnham #sarek #pike #lorca #rhys #owosekun #detmer

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dawnquafam · 6 years

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Star Trek the original series! Or, if you haven't watched that, The 2009 Star Trek Movie!

I have seen and utterly adore both so I did both!

TOSTop 3favorite characters – Bones, Chekov, ScottyTop 3least favorite characters – I don’t really think aboutthis for TOS, I like all the mainsTop 3OTPs – I don’t really have OTPs for TOS… Sarek/Amandais adorable, but I wouldn’t call them an OTPTop 3nOTPs – Don’t really have any nOTPs for it eitherTop 3brOTPs – Kirk/Spock/Bones, Sulu/Chekov, Scotty/EnterpriseTop 3favorite episodes/chapters/scenes/games in series – Journeyto Babel, Trouble with Tribbles, and… perhaps Shore LeaveTop 3other things u think ppl who like this thing should watch/read/play – Star Trek:Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, Stargate: SG-1Myrating of this media out of 3, with 0 being lowest and 3 being highest – Probsa… 2? I love it, I love all of these dorks, but I am not a fan of constantShakespeare references and constant extended philosophical speeches (I know, I’min the wrong fandom for that, but Star Trek is just. So good. I need my hopefulsci-fi future)

AOSTop 3favorite characters – Jaylah, Bones, JimTop 3least favorite characters – I like everyone exceptAdmiral MarcusTop 3OTPs – Chekov/Jaylah, Spock/Uhura, Jim/CarolTop 3nOTPs – Chulu (Sulu is happily married with a daughter,and even before we knew that, Chekov would’ve been like 14 and Sulu 19 whenthey met, that ain’t right), Kirk/Khan (idk why anybody even ships that),Kirk/Pike (respect the father/son relationships people)Top 3brOTPs – Kirk/Spock/Bones, Chekov/Sulu, Scotty/everybodyTop 3favorite episodes/chapters/scenes/games in series – Everyscene in Beyond with Bones taking care of Spock, Beyond’s use of Sabotage (thattops even Ragnarok’s use of Immigrant Song imo, nothing shall surpass thatmoment), Jaylah’s intro scene Top 3other things u think ppl who like this thing should watch/read/play – WonderWoman, Galaxy Quest, Guardians of the GalaxyMyrating of this media out of 3, with 0 being lowest and 3 being highest – 3.Beyond specifically is a 5

#personal #star trek #anti chulu #anti kirk x khan #anti kirk x pike #rose-gold-romantic #ask game answers #dawn answers stuff

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calliecat93 · 3 years

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ST: The Next Generation Watchthrough Episodes 13-15

Time Squared: Ho boy time shenanigans, yay… so we got two Captain Picards, one from six hours in the future, and our heroes trying tomfigure out WTF is happening. So… needless to say my head hurts. A lot. Admittedly Patrick Stewart does well playing two different versions of himself and being unsettled that there are two versions of himself, so kudos there. Heck this whole episode is essentially one big look at Picard’s peyche. He’s unnerved by another him who abandoned the Enterprise showing up, and who can blame him? I didn’t at all understand the explination over what was going on, but it sure as Hell lead to one heck of an ending. So an interesting episode that did some good for Picard. No real strong opinions aside from having no idea what just happened, but no real complaints either. 3/5.

The Icarus Factor: Oh boy, Daddy Issues. One of my least favorite tropes of all time! Well it wasn’t so bad with Spock’s daddy issues with Sarek, so how do Riker’s issues go (is it just gonna be a thing where the First Officers have parent issues?)? It’s the standard ‘dad wasn’t around much do the kid has issues and both suck at trying to deal with it and it all started because the mom died and dads automatically SUCK if the mom isn’t around.” Aka the junk tbat PISSES ME OFF to no end. But ignoring my feelings, I can’t blame Riker, he feels legit hurt and resentment and telling him to just get over it like Pulaski did isn’t right. Personally I’d say go through therapy, but NO ONE thinks of suggesting taking to Troi or if she’s too close to Riker, another therapist. Anyways, Kyle does seem to genuinely want to repair the damage and I can respect parents who realize their mistakes and want to make it right even if they don’t know how. But at the same time kf Riker wants nothing to do with him, he doesn’t have to and Kyle should have learned to either back down or seek guidance if he really wanted to make amends. Otherwise while I don’t have too many issues with how it was done here aside from the ‘men are macho and should solve their problems via macho means’ because just sitting down and talking or seeing a therapist apparently isn’t an option. It’s the same pattern I’ve seen everywhere else with nothing new to offer and it annoyed me the same way as thise times, and in the end I don’t like either of them for being prideful idiots. IDK if Kyle ever reappears like Sarek did in the films (which imo TOS handled Spock and Sarek MUCH better) but if they do, I hope it’s better than this. As far as Worf’s plot goes, no strong feelings but Worf’s feelings about a major Klingon event coming up but not being around other Klingons are understandable and his friends and the wrap-up for it was nice. So overall I’m not crazy about the episode because it has one of my most hated plots and went exactly as I expected it to go and has an ending message I don’t particularly agree with even if it was a joke (no ST, not all women like macho men or find it what makes a man exciting nor are all men like that or should be), but it’s not the worst I’ve seen and it ends decently enough. 2/5.

Pen Pals: The Prime Directive exists to prevent Starfleet from interfering in the development of any pre-existing society. TOS played it pretty loose with Kirk breaking as many times as he abided by it. There are legitimate issues woth interfering in other society’s manners and potentially forcing one society’s values onto another, so Picard being more of a stickler person ith it and obeying it makes sense. But there are also cases where it may be best, especially if that society is in danger or extinction kr harming others. It’s very much a case where one needs to have good judgement and where it’s easy to make eother the right or the wrong choice. When should the Prime Directive be broken? Or should it be broken at all regardless of any downsides, as maybe that’s better than the potential downsides that breaking it can cause?In this episode, we explore that problem. So here, Data picks up a distress call from a girl whose planet is about to explode, but helping her would violate the Prime Directive. He decides to help after communicating with her for a while, and thus the debate begins. Ultimateley in this particular situation I side with Data. I get why the Prime Directive is in place and I agree that it’s necessary. But in this case it’s an innocent child whose about to potentially be killed along with her planet and understandsbmy scared. Interfering in saving a child’s life if their efforts to save the planet fails is just the right thing to do. I do like that an episode had this debate because both sides have a point, and in the end even Picard, whose otherwise an asshole in this episode, decided that he couldn’t just do nothing. Also Data and Sarjanka’s interactions are utterly adorable and God I love Data~

As far as Wesley’s plot goes… why the HELL is the TEENAGER with ZERO training being allowed to lead a science team?! Okay tbf they address it in the episode, this IS pretty much supposed to be training for him so fair enough. But… I’m sorry but I just think that Wesley has not earned that right at least until he actually gets into the Academy and gets proper training there instead of being thrust into a professional position like this so quickly. Otherwise it fees like Wesley gets preferential treatment all because he’s smarter than most those age despite having not really done anything to earn it. But his worries about being a leader are understandable and Wil Wheadon protrays it well especially when he talks to Riker about it. This is really the issue with Wesley. The character himself is fine and likeable (a few instances aside but I can say that for everyone), but it’s how the show uses and elevates him more than he should that makes watching him so frustrating. But it hasn’t been as bad as S1, so we’ll see how things go down the line. So overall solid episode. I ahve some annoyances, but it was still a nice watch. 3.5/5.

#st watchthrough

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data-is-my-favorite-android · 6 years

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Some thoughts on M!Lorca and Emperor Georgiou

I was reading some posts and thought that a greater exploration of these two characters and their respective villainy may be called for. The main thing I keep coming back to is: is it really so hard to accept that both mirror Georgiou and mirror Lorca are both pretty bad and neither of them should be “sided” with? The sins of one don’t cancel out the sins of the other, and they’re both horrible (albeit interesting) in their own special ways. I’m just sayin’, though Michael will probably have to make an alliance of opportunity at one point or another, neither of them is a “good” choice.

So let’s break it down a little, shall we?

Georgiou:

-eats sentient beings

-doesn’t hesitate to kill a room full of people

-is a-okay with torturing people for life

-may or may not be an overbearing, controlling mother-figure

-kills and subjugates alien races without a second thought

-rules the human population through terror

Big Evil Things all.

Lorca:

-possibly killed the entire crew of the prime Buran to cover his entry into the prime universe (arguably speculation at this point, but something weird happened there and lorca at the very least lied about his “eye injuries”)

-pushes his crew past their limits, jeopardizing their health

-orders Dr. Culber to fake a medical report

-pulls Dr. Culber away from taking care of Paul so he can’t figure out what happened (with an extra dose of gaslighting when Culber accuses him of planning their departure from the prime universe), therefore extending their stay in the mirror universe

-tries to manipulate Katrina Cornwell with sex and, when that fails, sends her into a dangerous situation hoping she will be captured or killed and refuses to help when it is confirmed she was kidnapped (what happened to his whole “i know what happens to people captured by klingons and not on my watch” spiel??)

-puts a traumatized p.o.w back into action without any therapy

-to avoid punishment (and complete his own personal mission) he inputs coordinates to take the Discovery to the MU, stranding his crew in hostile territory and erasing the last coordinates to keep them in the dark

-apparently manipulated a woman named Ava and used her until he was done with her before casting her aside or worse--and he has no remorse concerning his actions

-allegedly manipulated/had a relationship with mirror Michael, whom he must have known saw him as a father, and conspired with her to kill the emperor, her mother-figure (just sayin’, if the relationship bit is true, even if they aren’t technically related and she was an adult when a relationship began, that’s still super problematic. She still grew up under his care looking up to him as a father. The inherent power disparity there is stunning and unnerving. and regardless, her father-figure was helping mirror Michael plan the murder of her foster mother. just...wow)

-we don’t know if he wants to overthrow the emperor to make the empire a better place or just to usurp power. but we do know he was the right-hand man of the emperor, tasked with executing her most sensitive missions (which probably included mass murder on the reg), that he ran his ship in the prime universe like his own personal fiefdom and he didn’t think twice about telling michael to destroy the rebel base, no questions asked

(note, the lorca section is longer because we know more about lorca than we do about the emperor. To that end, I will include more commentary about lorca because, again, I’ve had more time to ponder lorca than evil georgiou)

Okay, so a lot of this might be excused(?) by arguing cultural relativism on behalf of the Terrans. Personally, I don’t think borderline incest is acceptable by any universe’s standards, but for the sake of argument I will agree that the source reporting this likely isn’t reliable and maybe that part isn’t true. But I don’t think Lorca is a “good guy” and unless some dramatic shift happens, I don’t think he should continue as captain.

From a certain perspective, Lorca may be said to have done a lot of good, too, and there are interesting arguments in favor of this. But I also think there’s another side to that coin, and I want to explore that a little more.

Look, Lorca has always struck me as an expert at manipulation. Expert manipulators know that it’s all a game of give-and-take, but they make sure to stack the deck in their favor when it’s their turn to take. They’re also extremely savvy when it comes to securing the loyalty of their followers.

Let’s look at some examples from Lorca’s stint on the Discovery using this theory as our guide.

Busting Michael out of prison? He didn’t do it solely for the pleasure of her company. He needed her for his own plans, as we now know. He also likely meant to cultivate a sense of indebtedness between him and her. When that didn’t go as planned, he had to change tactics and appeal to her curiosity and sense of duty to convince her to stay, a much softer but decidedly more effective approach. And Lorca, above anything else, cares about results, not how he gets them.

Rescuing Sarek? He knew that mission was important to Michael, sure, but he also predicted that allowing her to rescue Sarek would make her feel gratitude and loyalty to him as well as convince her to trust him (trust being one of the most basic and important tools a manipulator has to work with). When she thanked him for his support, he even said as much: “I need a group of people around me to carry the day”. He wants her steadfast loyalty and trust so she will follow him even when he’s doing things she knows aren’t strictly in keeping with Starfleet ideals.

Speaking of which, from the get-go he encouraged her to shift her thinking away from Starfleet’s diplomatic ideals and start thinking in a more zero-sum, militaristic way. She proves a little less pliable than he might have liked, but she trusts him enough that she ignores his underhanded tactics. Still, he has to step lightly around her because he doesn’t have full control of her yet and he knows it. That’s another reason why he has to bend to her will at times; if he pushes back too hard she might begin to question his motives and start to doubt him, and that can’t happen for his plan to work.

Another thing expert manipulators do is forge a sense of commonality between themselves and the target of their manipulation, emphasizing their mutual (but superior) “otherness” from the group. Lorca is quick to call Michael superior to the other Federation scientists around them because she, like himself, can think outside the box and do what needs to be done (”universal law is for lackeys; context is for kings”). They are members of an exclusive club, one that knows what’s really happening, what needs to be done, and the difficult means by which to do it; everyone else belongs to the lackey club that must be guided by their superior insight.

As for other “nice” things he’s done? Springing Tyler out of prison was a strategic decision. Tyler said it himself;

Lorca needed Tyler as much as Tyler needed him.

What about promoting Tyler and giving him a place among the crew? Look, if someone helped me escape a klingon prison hellhole after seven months of torture, I’d feel pretty fucking indebted to them. Lorca also knew that Tyler, like anyone who’s been through torture, would be anxious to get back at his tormentors and be prepared to break any rule to do it (see his conversation with Saru on Pavo).

I wouldn’t exactly call Lorca’s actions here altruistic, but rather a calculated risk, like most of his decisions.

He sounded pretty kind to Tilly when she was freaking out on the captain’s seat, but then again, yelling at her and making things worse would have blown their cover and made a mess of his grand plans, so... *shrug*

The thing that’s so insidious about Lorca, even assuming his intentions are “good” and his end-game somehow justifies the means, is that he’s so good at manipulating people and so incredibly deft at controlling the people around him that it really makes me question his true intentions or feelings about anything. He’s a long-term strategist who can pivot and adjust to any situation, which makes him an extremely interesting character. It’s easy to look at his actions in the moment and say they are good, but Lorca is a big-picture thinker who dons whatever hat he needs to fit the situation. For manipulative people, kindness and cruelty are both tools that must be used appropriately and in the right measure to get what they want. Particularly in the Federation, honey will catch more flies than vinegar, and he knows that.

I’m not saying that Lorca isn’t a fantastically dynamic character and that I haven’t enjoyed watching his arc. And I’m not saying he’s devoid of emotion either; he may have some passing fondness toward a few of his crewmates, but at present I get the feeling that, while he doesn’t want to lose them and waste resources, they’re all pretty expendable if it comes right down to it. I do think he cares about Michael more than he cares about anyone else (that doesn’t excuse the bad things he’s done “for her” though...). And, smart man that he is, he has been careful to bend the truth instead of outright lying when possible. But that doesn’t mean he’s honest or that the sentiment he holds toward Michael is “pure”. I think her mirror counterpart always represented some avenue to power for him. He could care about her while also using her, but that kind of takes something away from the dynamic, doesn’t it? I don’t think you can love someone/have a healthy relationship with them while simultaneously using them imo. Even if he and mirror Michael were working together in full equality, prime Michael isn’t; Lorca is holding all the cards and that means he has all the power in the situation. She hasn’t been given a real, honest choice (as opposed to the illusion of choice), and that is fundamentally unequal and manipulative. He has asked her to trust him, but he hasn’t trusted her with critical information about himself and his goals in return. That’s selfish, dangerous, and pushes him further into bad/evil character territory for me.

Pivoting back to Emperor Georgiou, I also think she cares about Michael--or at least mirror Michael. But that also doesn’t make her a good person or better than Lorca. She’s comfortable in her fascistic regime. She commits genocide regularly and uses torture daily to impose fear and order among her subjects. That’s pretty cut-and-dry evil right there, no excuses. She’s probably her own special brand of manipulative, exploiting Michael’s straightforward Federation ideals and attitudes to her gain. Like, she’s obviously no peach herself (but holy hell, does she know how to dress to impress).

At the end of the day (and with the information currently available), neither of them are a good option for Michael to form an alliance with. On the one hand, she’s got the devil she knows; Lorca seems interested in protecting her, whatever his reasons, but fuck, he’s royally screwed all of the crew on Discovery over, and possibly the Federation too (remember they had the information needed to win the war but that don’t matter if they can’t deliver it). On the other, she has the devil she doesn’t know; Georgiou represents an evil empire, but hasn’t personally betrayed Michael and initially seems to be on-board with getting the infectious ideals of the Federation out of her empire and back where they belong. Obviously neither of them are trustworthy, but they aren’t trustworthy for different reasons. Hopefully Michael will be able to find a solution that doesn’t “side” with either of them and possibly plays them off each other.

Personally, I don’t even think either of them are going to be The Big Bad. I predict that dubious honor will go to:

He only corrupted the Mycelial Network, aka The Cosmic Force That Binds All Life Together. Seems pretty important.

Just a thought.

Anyway, long story short, characters can be evil for different reasons and be equally deplorable (though is Lorca that different from the Emperor? If he was emperor, would he use his power any differently? He seemed pretty okay with the idea of killing all the non-human rebels. Even if it’s all a show and the end justifies the means...that’s pretty ghastly. Hopefully the next episode will shed more light on his character). It’s not a linear spectrum where one must be more evil than the other. They both, at present, look pretty fucking terrible from my perspective. Lorca might pull some more magic out of a hat and somehow make himself less horrible, but that also doesn’t mean he’s automatically a good guy. And Emperor Georgiou could assist the Discovery and that wouldn’t erase the fact that she’s a genocidal maniac. Complex as they both are, they’ve both committed acts of evil and they both should be held accountable for their past deeds.

#star trek discovery #gabriel lorca #emperor georgiou #mirror paul #character analysis

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thedogsled · 6 years

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13x04 as you’ve never heard it before: Trek vs. Wars

Both do it right. Both make some mistakes. Both have good intentions. Both are brought up in 13x04. Both have crazy ass fans who need to inform you how much superior one is than the other. But uh. I just find it amusing that in a season so far that has presented us with such duality, an episode that opens with a Star Wars reference throws in a Star Trek one as well just for consistency.

I’m going to touch on both because it’s fascinating to me, particularly as both references are so clearly bonded to Jack. And I know, I know. They’re obvious pop culture references, but there’s more underneath the surface to them if that’s all you know them as.

Okay, so I’ve seen people talking here and there about Anakin and Ahsoka. I didn’t watch Clone Wars (though it’s sitting on my shelf right here, oops), so I don’t actually know about Ahsoka, but obviously Anakin is a big deal.

I’ve seen meta comparing Jack’s potential arc to Luke’s and to Vader’s, but that’s because in a lot of ways their arcs are similar, it’s just that they have different outcomes. Luke, of course, has friends and family in his court, while Anakin is under the thumb of a master manipulator in Palpatine who essentially corrupts him because of his great potential power. There’s an easy line to draw there, of course, between Asmodeus and Palpatine. And so if you lean into the Anakin comparison, you have the following:

Anakin was not a child when he was taken in by Qui-Gon for training (I mean he was but by the standards of the Jedi Temple not really)

The Prophecy regarding Anakin said that he would bring balance to the Force (Ultimately he did, there were 2 Sith and 2 Jedi left)

The Jedi Council feared his power/influence and initially forbade his training

And then Anakin consequently lost all the people he cared about or who had faith in him, starting with Qui-Gon.

Which led to him being trained by Obi-Wan who was barely out of Padawan diapers and a bit of a rule breaker himself

And lets face it had a less than stellar upbringing too (But I guess the EU is no longer canon so w/e)

And don’t forget that Obi-Wan is pretty fucking depressed in general (He describes it as his fate to be sad) but he had just lost the person with which he had a profound bond

It’s no wonder Jack aspires to be more like Ahsoka. By Clone Wars Anakin - because of his skill and the lack of leadership experience of Obi-Wan - is a bit of a cocky dick. He endangers others. He’s arrogant, prideful, rageful, prone to outbursts of emotion and ultimately imperfect. The fact that he has such great power raises him above his peers, and those who train him begin to try to impede his process rather than give him - impetuous and unchallenged as he is - a position of wider influence. This leaves opportunity for Palpatine to prey on his feelings of how unfair this situation is. And ultimately? Anakin thinks he’s doing the right thing. He thinks he’s doing good because he’s been told it’s the right thing to do by someone he trusts.

"I see through the lies of the Jedi. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire."

Or paradise?

But Jack can be Luke too. The difference for Luke (just as it’s made clear in the scene of Jack in 13x04) is that he doesn’t want to become Anakin. Luke walks into that cave on Dagobah and in a nightmarish sequence this is the fear he’s presented with: that he and Vader have a great deal in common. (ftr he lops Vader’s head off and the mask explodes to reveal Luke’s face underneath) But it is this fear that allows Luke to choose his side.

This imo is a ray of hope for Jack. He knows what he wants to be: he wants to be good. He’s just not sure of what he’s feeling.

Which leads me to Spock.

Spock is also Jack. Now if you don’t know anything about Star Trek, you probably believe the hype: Spock is a green blooded alien freak from the planet Vulcan. He’s not. Spock is a half breed, half human and half Vulcan, and that’s why I’m going to compare him to Jack. That’s where these layers come from.

Vulcans breeding with humans is seen as a taboo, you see. It’s just not done. There’s all sorts of reasons for this (such as mating rituals) but among them is that Vulcans see humans as emotionally volatile (and unenlightened because of it). A half human child, therefore, is equally prone to this volatility. Spock attends Vulcan schools where he has disputes with other children and basically has to try twice as hard to BE Vulcan to prove that his human half doesn’t make him less than. This troubles his father, of course, because Sarek did fall in love with a human woman (two actually) and he loves and admires the humanity in his son. But Sarek - being wholly Vulcan - is never able to actually express this. Spock didn’t find out the true depth of his father’s feelings until he mindmelded with Picard in season 5 of TNG). Anyway, I’m wandering off topic.

The thing about Vulcans that is overlooked by haphazard pop culture references is that they do feel emotions. They feel them with deep intensity, but through societal pressure/meditation they’ve built a resilience to expressing them--a resilience that fractures every time their hormones go crazy. Spock struggles with his emotions because he has two conflicting halves to contend with, human volatile emotionality and Vulcan intensity with deliberate emotional repression. He is unemotional because he’s gone to pains to suppress it in the past, and identifying and empathizing/sympathizing with those emotions isn’t something his upbringing has trained him to do. Spock chooses to focus on his Vulcan side. As a consequence this half-Vulcan raised on Vulcan acts like a Vulcan because he doesn’t understand the emotions of the people around him, and is detached from something that a human upbringing could have taught him. Spock represents, therefore, an interesting example of duality because it is his choice which defines him:

Data: “As you examine your life, do you find you have missed your Humanity?" Spock: "I have no regrets." Data: "'No regrets.' That is a Human expression." Spock: "Yes. Fascinating."

(For those who don’t know Data’s story is more like Castiel’s, it’s a story about aspiring toward inachievable humanity)

(Author’s note: If you want an idea of how Vulcan culture works, it’s like imagine Toxic Masculinity: The Planet but instead of men being subtly forced to hide their vulnerability it’s generations of very long living, stubborn people being subtly forced to hide their emotions entirely. Nope, that still sounds like Earth)

So Jack is dumped in Dean and Sam’s world, fully grown, surrounded by all these emotions. He FEELS DEEPLY. He has strong and volatile emotions, just like Spock, that he has no understanding of how to demonstrate. Take, for example, that Jack went in to Mia and asked her to become his mother, the deep and intense emotion that motivated that arrangement. There is genuine emotion there, but Jack doesn’t know what to call it, how to identify with it, or if the feeling is good or bad (which is the greatest issue of all because he Does Not Want To Be Bad)--he only knows that it hurts. But what is he supposed to do with that hurt? Man up, maybe?

That Jack’s powers, therefore, are linked to his expressions of emotion is particularly interesting. Outbursts of emotion have been linked to power before in the show, and specifically parallels to Max Miller were brought up in this episode too. That’s no surprise. But Jack’s power is angelic in origin, so his being able to express it through emotion, which is arguably unangelic (though I have opinions on that, damn it) is a whole other kettle of cod.

Jack has been dumped in a world of emotion without the ability to empathize or sympathize. He’s trying, but it’s no surprise he’s having difficulty. Unlike Castiel who had years to begin to learn emotion long before he became human, Jack has been thrown in at the deep end, and it’s not helped at all that these tidepools of human grief are his window on that world because the one thing Sam and Dean aren’t being at the moment is emotionally consistent.

Anyway. I’d been staring at this gifset @elizabethrobertajones made and literally couldn’t put my inner trekkie to sleep. I’m sure this was meant to make more sense than it did originally, but it’s just my take on it. Both Anakin and Spock canonically experience strong emotions and both are taught by the institutions meant to train them that those emotions are dangerous. In Anakin’s case emotion helps him harness greater power. Both have to struggle with their duality, and both face prejudgement because of it. Ultimately despite their differences they both have to make a choice. Unfortunately for Jack, he has to deal with both aspects of his duality as a nephilim and whether his powers/emotions or possible lack of each make him good or evil.

Which leaves him struggling with one question: Who am I?

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