#using anti tags make me feel like i'm back on 2015 tumblr lol

[selkiemaidenfae]

this is something i want to go deeper into in a video essay but it can't be understated how fucking weird it was as a deeply-oblivious-to-my-feelings-for-girls baby bi to be on tumblr during the time when every popular straight ship was healthy and sweet and every popular wlw ship was abusive and toxic.

i envy the gen z kids who grew up with avatrice and calliette and lumity. or even older gen z kids who grew up with korrasami and catadora. they got wlw ships that were not only canon but warm and sweet and based on genuine affection.

when i was a little baby bi on tumblr, the big sapphic ships were swan queen (regina was canonically a rapist and her most consistent character trait was torturing people who tried to help her) and emison (allison spent years bullying emily for her sexuality and only stopped when she decided she wanted to fuck her).

these are the ships that tumblr tried to sell me as high sapphic romance.

hetero couples were given grand love stories and confirmed soulmates. gay couples were rarely canon, but fanon told the story of star-crossed lovers, destined to be apart yet deeply embedded in each other's souls.

and the lesbian romances were... women yelling at each other and gaslighting each other as an audience of mainly grown women insisted one character's abuse would just go away if they were given the green light to fuck the other into submission.

as a teenager, i was just starting to understand that i liked girls. but i didn't want the kind of relationship that was being romanticized. i didn't want a girl to hate me but also want to sleep with me. i didn't want her to hurt me and then maybe feel a little sorry afterwards, but then do it again.

i wanted the grand love story i saw for straight couples. i wanted fairytales and friendship and devotion and affection. i wanted women who healed together, women who protected each other, women who built lives together.

that isn't what i saw in fandom, though. so i thought that maybe wlw relationships were just... like that. maybe they were mainly physical, always tumultuous, never soft. if i didn't want that, i probably didn't want to be with a girl. i buried the feelings deep.

also, the amount of swan queen shippers that called me an evil straight person for not liking the ship probably didn't help that particular journey of self-discovery.

i wish i could go back and tell baby me that the sapphic love stories i wanted exist and they are beautiful and canon and beloved. a couple of them are even written by me.

i guess i'm just feeling reflective. and i've never seen anyone share this kind of experience, so i figured... why not? someone will get it.

#this post will not go over well but i've been wanting to put some thoughts into words #sapphic #wlw #tumblr #tumblr culture #tumblr meta #fandom #warrior nun #first kill #the owl house #the legend of korra #she ra #anti swan queen #anti emison #using anti tags make me feel like i'm back on 2015 tumblr lol #also i'm making myself sound old i'm 23 #i'm not ancient yet #long post

[lillupon]

So, I've got a very long rant/opinion here and Idk really know how to say this without coming off kinda bad but I'm gonna say it anyways. I agree with the fact that the seventeen tag has been kinda dry lately on most fanfic places, but it's really only in the smut area. It's the sane way with other groups too I feel like. All of the nice little innocent tags are boomin to this day and thats completely fine. I think the smut tag is dry tho bc lately I feel like a few social issues (like sexualizing people and disrespecting them and their identity) have crossed over into kpop and have been ?blown out of proportion? Lately there's been a rampage of people who like to say that writing smut about someone is disgusting and is dehumanizing because people want to assume that it would make the idols uncomfortable which could equate to some morality issues on how you are reducing someone only to their body without their consent and a bunch of stuff like that. It kind of pisses me off bc this is fiction. About grown adults. Clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life. I think a shit ton is wrong with the world we currently live in, and deciding to come after something that isn't even real bothers me. Like what does that actually accomplish. But yeah, I think thats a reason why smut has been dying down. I mean, on youtube almost every video about unpopular opinions, or things they dont like about kpop will include something about shipping idols in fanfics. And then everyone in the comment section will talk about how its all fine and dandy in moderation, but once people start writing smut it's crossing the idols personal boundaries. It's something I've been seeing a lot more often and I think people who are interested in writing smut are being turned away from it bc we've gotten to a point where people are being called disgusting for having fantasies.

Hi Anon, thank you for sending in this Ask. 

I want to preface this by saying: when I write or talk about Mingyu and Wonwoo fucking on my blog, it is a fantasy. I am not speculating about what the real Mingyu and Wonwoo might be like in bed. I am imagining the versions of Mingyu and Wonwoo that I have created in my head, that exist only in my stories. None of it is real. I understand that this can be a blurry boundary for some people. But for me, the separation between fantasy and reality is well-defined. Now, on to your Ask!

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one. You’ve also touched on many of the issues I have been struggling with myself as of late. It’s difficult to argue about morals since everyone has a different set of values, as well as different comfort levels. Some people think real person fiction (RPF) is a gross invasion of privacy. Others are fine with it. And others don’t care one way or another. There is no single answer; I can only offer my answer. Which means, of course, people are welcome to disagree with it, or parts of it. 

In this essay (LOL But forreal: this is an essay), I will be sharing my experience in the k-pop fanfic community from 2014 to present, the etiquette I personally abide by as a reader and writer of RPF, as well as my stance on RPF in general.

I started reading and posting fanfics back in 2014/2015 on a website called AsianFanfics (AFF). Obviously, no one on that site had a problem with RPF, since AFF is a platform made specifically for sharing stories about Asian celebrities. For many years, I read and enjoyed RPF with zero guilt. I scribbled away by myself in my own corner of fandom and curated my own content. I didn’t interact much with other fans, readers, or writers. I didn’t have a Twitter, and I only used tumblr to reblog memes. As a result, I’ve been able to avoid a lot of anti-shipping discourse, as well as purity and cancel culture. I had no idea there were so many negative opinions about RPF. It wasn’t until I became active on the subreddit r/Fanfiction last year that I learned about all the discourse surrounding RPF. 

This newfound ‘awareness’ does make me feel guilty at times—but only because after mulling this over, I still don’t think this is something to feel guilty about.

Here’s what I remember, first and foremost, when I create and consume RPF: fanfics and my favourite ships are fictional, and fiction is fantasy. This is basic etiquette when it comes to RPF, and most people in the k-pop fandom understand this. Delusional fans exist, of course, but they are not representative of the entire k-pop community. 

Another point of etiquette is to keep fanfics within fandom spaces. I would never push my fics into celebrities’ faces, or go around claiming that my fanfics are accurate representations of a k-idol’s life or personality, in any way, shape, or form. I would also discourage directing ship-related questions to official accounts, or bringing them up during fansigns or other face-to-face interactions; I believe that in these instances, shipping does have the potential to strain real-life relationships.

So with basic etiquette out of the way, let me share my approach to RPF in general.

As much as we like to think we know our favourite celebrities, we really don’t. All we see is their public persona. And this public persona is intentionally controlled, managed, and curated by a team of people: directors, tabloids, editors, makeup artists, publicists, etc. How “real” are these celebrities? We are so distanced from them that they may as well be fictional.

I draw from the public persona that idols project, and I work them into my own writing. But at the end of the day, these personalities are my own interpretation. My interpretation is probably nothing like an idol’s actual personality. I just use the “public persona/character” that idols portray as inspiration for my own stories, which are set in wildly different universes.

More than anything, I think of k-pop idols as “actors” in my fic. You know how when you write an original novel, you scroll through Google images, looking for the perfect person to portray your original character? RPF is literally that, except you might build upon pre-existing dynamics and personalities.

When it comes to explicit fanfiction, two main concerns are prevalent: one of consent, and one of sexualisation.

If we argue against explicit RPF due to lack of consent, we should be willing to apply the same lens to all explicit works. How do we know that the creator of a movie, book, series, etc., is okay with us using their characters in our stories, explicit or not? We don’t. Perhaps some creators encourage fanfiction, but don’t want their lovingly crafted characters engaging in sexual acts or experiencing trauma. We just don’t know. I feel this line is even more blurred when we talk about characters from movies or TV series.

Let’s take Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes, as portrayed by Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan, from the Captain America movies as an example. I am willing to bet that when people consume and create explicit fanfiction about Steve and Bucky, they are imagining Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan in their heads. I doubt many people are imagining the 2D cartoon versions of Steve and Bucky, even though they’re technically the exact same characters. Why? Well, it could be because movies are more readily and easily consumed than comics, and so people are unfamiliar with comic book Steve and Bucky. But it might also be because fans find Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan attractive. Is this really any different from RPF, where fic authors make up everything about a celebrity’s life?  

When readers and writers of fanfic talk about how hot Steve Rogers or Bucky Barnes is, those comments are about Chris Evans and Sebastian Stan’s bodies. When reading explicit stories, fans are going to picture Chris and Sebastian’s bodies in their head, doing sexual things. Can we say, “Well, it’s not really you, Chris/Sebastian”, when in a way, it is?

The reality is, people are going to thirst over celebrities, regardless of whether or not explicit fanfiction exists. They’re going to post thirst tweets on Twitter. They’re going to talk to friends and strangers online about how hot [insert celebrity name here] is. They’re going to fantasize about dating and having sex with their favourite celebrity. Or, as it is in my case, they’re going to make up stories in their heads about their favourite idols dating and banging each other. People are going to do all of this without ‘getting consent’ from the celebrity. Cracking down upon and shaming writers of RPF isn’t going to change any of that.

To be honest, I’m not sure why people think it is disgusting to imagine sexual scenarios about real people. It is okay and normal to have these kinds of fantasies. I suppose the alternative is to fantasise about having sex with cartoon characters instead? It’s a very binary way of thinking to say that if you imagine/write real people in explicit scenarios, you are immediately sexualising, dehumanising, or objectifying them. There is more to dehumanisation than writing smut about our favourite celebrities. For one thing, you can love someone and appreciate all parts of them, and still want to fuck their brains out. And generally, fanfics come from a place of love—love that is not only sexual in nature.

Is it the sharing aspect inherent to fanfiction? The possibility that a celebrity might stumble upon explicit works about them? The chances are very low, I think, of the k-pop idols I enjoy writing about coming across my English fics. But I also believe in curating your own content, and that applies to celebrities too. Perhaps a celebrity should not go searching for fanfics about themselves. And of course, people should not show celebrities their fanfics, unless invited.

Another argument I hear against (explicit) RPF is, “How would you feel if someone wrote fanfiction about you?” First off, I don’t like this argument because there’s a difference between someone who decides to be a public figure versus someone who decides to remain a regular private citizen. Celebrities should and do know what they’re getting into when they choose their occupation. (This is not to say, “They are celebrities; sexualise them all you want because that’s what they signed up for.” Here, I am only acknowledging that people might have sexual fantasies about celebrities they are attracted to. Presumably, celebrities are cognizant of this.)  

If someone (whose existence I am not even aware of, mind you) decides they want to write explicit fanfiction of me in some tiny corner of the Internet, I wouldn’t care so long as: (1) they don’t shove it into my face, and (2) they don’t harass me and ask invasive questions about my personal life and relationships. It’s not hurting me or negatively affecting my life, so it wouldn’t even register as a blip on my radar. When fanfiction remains within its appropriate spaces, it is largely harmless. 

Now, if a k-pop idol were to ask their fans to stop writing fanfiction about them, would I? Yes, I would. However, I can’t imagine that happening. Judging by the number of ‘sexy’ concepts, fanservice moments, and variety shows such as ‘We Got Married’, I am certain that k-pop idols realise they are the stars of many fantasies—some of which are explicit in nature. Considering the prevalence of shipping in the k-pop industry, I would argue that shipping is subtly encouraged.

It’s sad that so many talented writers are shamed out of fandom, or feel that k-pop cannot be the medium through which they tell their stories, or explore their sexuality, or cope with trauma, or simply have fun. Professional works and Hollywood love their RPF—readers and writers of fanfics should be able to, as well. 

As you said Anon, “clamping down on horny people who simp over hot asian men isn't going to solve the issues we face in real life” (this is a lovely sentence, by the way). The kind of person who dehumanises another and reduces them to a sexual object will do so some other way, if not via fanfiction. I don’t think the issue of fetishisation can be fixed simply by telling people not to write explicit RPF. In my experience, people who read and write RPF are more respectful and thoughtful about these things than the general public. We’ve all seen the general public say highly sexual things about celebrities in the media and to their faces, or tag celebrities in their thirst tweets. Are these things less invasive than fanfiction? Personally, I don’t think so. And in my opinion, there are more pressing and damaging issues in stan culture than fanfic.

In conclusion, I don’t think there is anything wrong with creating and consuming RPF, both explicit and non-explicit so long as we:

Remember we are writing fiction

Keep RPF within its appropriate space, and

Do not harass celebrities about their personal lives and relationships

RPF is not for everyone. There may be people who enjoy RPF, but draw the line at explicit stories. This is fine. Everyone has their own personal preferences. What is not fine, however, is attacking people for creating things you don’t like. I’m not sure what kind of moral crusade people are on and what they hope to achieve by shaming writers of RPF, explicit or otherwise. Ultimately, fic authors are writing a fantasy. It’s not real; no one is being hurt. I think it’s important for people to curate their own content, and AO3 makes it very easy to filter out explicit works and unwanted tags. 

Maybe this is me trying to justify my own participation in explicit RPF—I don’t know. What I do know is that I love k-pop, and fandom is an important part of my media and entertainment experience. I adore the k-pop idols I write about, and I just want to imagine them being happy and getting lots of love and orgasms. Let a bitch be horny, goddamn… 

Some bonus fun facts!

At the time I am writing this, on AO3:

26.2% of Stray Kids fanfics are rated M or E

26.3% of Seventeen fanfics are rated M or E

29.0% of Merlin fanfics are rated M or E

34.9% of Captain America (Movies) fanfics are rated M or E

40.1% of BTS fanfics are rated M or E ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Coincidentally, I saw this post on Reddit this morning: Can we have a RPF positivity post?

#asks #my writing #fic & fandom #I keep coming back to fiddle and add things to this answer #but I think I've said all I wanted to now...

[batwynn]

I'm a newish artist on here and even my friends don't share my posts anymore. Idk what to do bc I keep seeing popular blogs like yours ask for signal boosts and no one bothers and my blog is so small? I feel like I'll never get any attention nvm commissions on here and twitter is almost worse for me.

Hi newish artist anon! Firstly, I don’t know what’s up with your friends, but I would hope they supported you and your work? I know what you mean, though, it’s been a rough period for creators of all types on this site, and I have a feeling it won’t get any better. I wish I could bring you back to the days of reblogs, mutuals screaming about stuff together, and lots of traffic to everyone’s accounts, but... time travel, as far as I can see, is not a viable option. :( Here are some links to some basic tips I wrote out before to managing Tumblr a bit, first and foremost: How to Get Your Art Noticed (On Tumblr)How to Manage Bullying (On Tumblr) How to Sell On ETSY (Super basic) More serious talk under the cut: 

The thing is, also, is that I’m not actually a popular blog. I have a largish sum of followers, but at this point I’ve become aware that a thousand of them are probably porn bots, and at least another 7 thousand or so are hacked accounts/abandoned of friends and mutuals that no longer post or use this site at all.(I say this after exploring some of my older follower’s accounts, a lot of the mutual followed accounts, and a lot more old friend accounts from people I haven’t heard from since 2015 or so.)

 SO many people have left, or were forced off this site, and it’s left a pretty big void for a lot creators like myself and others. It means that a lot of us, while once being decently ‘popular’ are now sort of stagnated to this ‘I have a lot of followers but half my friends are gone and a lot of the followers aren’t actual accounts anymore’ kind of place. Which means, with the whole anti-reblogging front going on, you just... go nowhere. Your posts don’t get outside of your bubble, especially when Tumblr does stuff like hides your posts with links from the tag. :/ 

On the other side of things, If you look at accounts like Pangur and Grim you can really see a difference in account activity and follower interaction. You’ll notice there’s a surplus of activity on multiple types of posts, from personal, to cats, to art, etc. (You’ll also notice a lot of negative stuff, which I honestly don’t miss from the time when I had a lot of activity on this blog lol) That kind of blog is what I would consider an actual ‘popular’ blog, especially since the owner does a lot of interactive posts and gets actual interactions with them. The point I’m trying to make with all this, is that there is no one true way to get interaction on this site, and I don’t really think there’s a perfect way to gain it without, honestly, luck. Even two years ago, I would say something like, ‘You may be able to get people’s attention by working hard at focusing on post times, popular trends, networking, working with other artists, joining zines, etc.’ But that just doesn’t work anymore. Hard work does not automatically equal popularity or give you attention and interactions, especially not on this site. 

Things have changed, unfortunately in a very negative way for creators, and we’re all sort of left trying to find a place that works like Tumblr used to. A place we can congregate yet have our personal spaces, while exploring our ‘likes’ and mutual fandoms etc. A place where a little extra work on your content and following trends and posting at good times was all you really needed to get at least some interactions and attention. 

Twitter is also not good at that, and I know a lot of my friends and mutuals are there and we are following one another, but Twitter is just not made for creators. It really just isn’t. It’s fast-paced, it’s styled for short, quippy responses to media and other people, and it’s terrible with image quality never mind the whole bad cropping situation. If you able, by luck and some hard work, to manage a following, even then there is no promise of interaction or commissions. People move on, people ‘like’ and skip to the next post, people ignore donations posts, people scroll past art if they can’t see the whole thing, people are looking at Twitter at midnight after a long day of work and have no energy to look at your kickstarter for your original work, people spend all day looking and talking about politics and are burnt out, etc. etc.  

I know this is... not a cheerful message for anyone, but I wanted to be honest. There isn’t one way to get attention for your work, and there is no promise that doing ‘one simple trick!’ will work for you when it worked for others. Just by asking and wanting to be proactive about this is a great way to get going, though!

That being said, I would love to reblog/retweet your work and never feel bad for asking me for a signal boost. Seriously, I may not be a popular blog but if you need commissions or donations and need a boost, It’s worth a try and I’m absolutely open to sharing your work and posts. 

#Batwynn Talks #Advice #popular blogs #artists on tumblr #sorry it's kind of sad? #It's just tumblr kind of doesn't work anymore and #twitter is not as great for artist #It CAN be done though! #it can #but it also involves good luck #that's just a fact #I'm sorry #:( #Anonymous