jewelleighanna

[jewelleighanna]

(good thoughts... just piggybacking on a few more thoughts here). Cas’s relationship with Kelly is one of the biggest reason I see him as gay being the closet to correct label (and also “queer”). But if you are talking about “coding,” there is something especially gay-coded about Cas/Kelly, as Cas was “let me buy you a house and take care of you and raise your kid” -- all while ZERO romantic overtones.That isn’t to say men and women only being friends defines their sexuality -- but from a story standpoint? Kelly was basically a surrogate. Which Kelly being a “surrogate” via rape no less, makes me hate her storyline but that’s another rant. From Cas’s perspective only, if they had wanted him to be straight, bi, or pan... he could have been in a relationship with Kelly to be closer to stepdad material or even, Jack could have been his own biological child. Anyway, where gay label doesn’t fit for me at all, is as much as Cas shows very little interest in women, he also doesn’t show interest in men -- outside of Dean at least. Like you said, that leans demi -- or gray or ace, all which seem as much queer than gay. Adding also, I tend to use labels as characters might use them for themselves. I’m not sure that Cas would define his sexuality in any one way, which is why queer works to allow him to just be in a space of his own. (As for gender identity, so many on tumblr push for non-binary Cas, but I haven’t read any evidence that he would choose to identify any other way than male. Even in a female vessel. Case study: Benjamin, even after a century with a female vessel, still uses he/him. Of course, I suspect gender and angel study could be a book of its own.)

A lot of people refer to Cas as "gay," which I think is awesome and everything. But I personally always considered him more as "queer" for a number of reasons, such as:

angel genders and vessels are very fluid. Would he still be considered "gay" if he were in a female vessel, and in love with Dean? Also, there are several times in the series where Cas appears to be attracted to women (some ppl don't consider these moments valid for Reasons™ which is fine. But I do.) He also seems, in my opinion, to only be romantically interested in Dean, and I think this would be true if Dean were female. So that would make Cas closer to demi.

Point is, I recently saw a post on sm that was like "reminder: Cas is GAY. He's not bi, pan, or unlabeled, he's gay and that's not negotiable."

I consider myself queer and a huge Cas fan, so it was weird to see my interpretation of a character I know really well and relate to just be invalidated like that.

And I just kind of wanted you opinion, cuz I know like in Dean's case, seeing him as anything other than bi is pretty clearly against canon.

But is the same true for Cas? Is it wrong to see him as an umbrella "queer?" I know Misha calls him gay, which I love and respect, but I don't really let my interpretations be dictated by actor opinions. I feel like canon supports a much more fluid interpretation of Cas, but I'm just wondering if I'm wrong for that, in terms of what canon supports.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Thanks for your thoughts in this fandom I love them

Hi!! Thank you for the nice words and for wanting to know my thoughts on this. I appreciate you :)

Sorry it took me over a week to finish this. I kind of started it, realized it was probably gonna be longer than I’d expected, and then added to it in pieces when off work so as not to half-ass it.

Also, I want you to know that I think you absolutely rock for this message. The fact that you have a strong personal interpretation or strong feelings about what your view of Cas' sexuality means to you, while being open to hearing arguments for what canon supports, is exactly the kind of nuance too many people in fandom lack. Huge fuckin shout out to you, anon, because this takes both guts and brain cells!

I have two primary threads of thought I'm going to address here, as well as how they criss-cross:

I agree that Cas' canon sexuality is a slightly different topic than Dean's canon sexuality. Dean's bisexuality is not unclear/unambiguous, and there's no wiggle room there; he's frequently attracted to women, he's frequently attracted to men, there's bi lighting, it's all not rocket science. Cas is a bit more ~ambiguously queer~, so advocating for fandom maintaining a unanimous hard stance on his canon sexuality is... a little trickier. In that vein, the "reminder" post you mentioned seeing feels too intense in my opinion for the nature of this particular conversation/topic.

That being said: from an analytical standpoint, I do think the strongest argument to be made based on canon is that Cas is gay and demi.

Since you seem open to it and asked for my thoughts overall, I'm gonna break down point 2 before circling back to point 1. Quick reminder/disclaimer that I'm not trying to invalidate you or your personal connection to Cas with anything I'm about to say, so please keep that in mind <3

You mentioned how some people don't consider Cas' moments of being attracted to women as ~being valid~ and said you disagree. That's fair! At the same time... in a nuanced fashion, that's where I land on it. I also think the show took care to ultimately build to and portray a full picture with all of that factored in, and to talk about that I kinda gotta go into detail here, because it's one part of a bigger piece. I’m not trying to turn this into a comprehensive meta deep dive, so I’m going to talk about this in a sort of summarized way but not go too far into breaking down any one point or analyzing any one scene. Hope that’s cool.

Let’s look at Cas’ biggest “moments,” as it were, with women. Or the ones I would guess people intend to reference.

First up: there’s Meg. We’ve got the “pizza man" season 6 kiss, the season 7 arc of Meg watching over Cas during his mental break, and season 8 when Meg sacrifices herself.

The season 6 "pizza man" kiss, to me, really plays into the overall mood of Cas' curiosity as he explores and tries to understand human behavior. He watched porn and was intrigued/confused/aroused, Meg kissed him partially to get at his angel blade (not a euphemism lmao), and then his curiosity kicked in so he kissed her more thoroughly because the opportunity was there. Those scenes are all connected, and he doesn’t have much of a reaction after the kiss. Then, season 7 is a whole suitcase to unpack, but… the bottom line there is that Meg treated Cas with decency when he was vulnerable in every sense of the word. And then in season 8, Cas undeniably had a fondness for Meg by the end, and they were friends... but I don't read it as him having an attraction to her or romantic feelings for her. I do not mean this as shade or hate to anyone who ships them, but my reading on that dynamic overall is that I do think Meg felt something for Cas in terms of both attraction and feelings; and while that makes it all a bittersweet tragedy, it also doesn't mean things were reciprocally non-platonic. She was into him, but he seemingly wasn’t into her in the same way. After Meg’s death, Cas also never asks about her or mentions her or has any reaction at all to her being gone–something that would have been very easy for them to incorporate with even one mention if they'd wanted to or considered it foundational. (For example, mentions of Dean's relationship with Benny are recurring throughout the show, lending its non-platonic nature and its significance for establishing bi Dean even more weight.) Season 8 Megstiel content is also placed narratively right up against the Destiel content, and the contrast of that is–of course–pretty stark. That was likely deliberate. Cas’ feelings for Dean are unavoidably, unmistakably at the forefront.

Then you've got season 9. A newly human Cas–who was given the heteronormative suggestion by Metatron to "Find a wife. Make babies."–gets seduced then killed by April, all of which is traumatizing dubious consent galore. Then you’ve got Cas thinking he's being asked out on a date by a woman in 9x06 as he’s trying to figure out his life as a human. He even says this explicitly to Dean: “Going on dates… that's something humans do, right?” He is doing what he thinks he’s meant to be doing as a human, but is that action based in genuine desire? That line implies the answer being no. Contextually this is, of course, set against the jilted lover vibes he has with Dean in that episode. And then in the season at large, Cas becomes focused on his overall mission–a search for purpose, which (as Metatron helpfully points out later) becomes oriented around saving Dean.

Season 10 is up next. Hannah is very clearly interested in Cas, but Cas is a giant question mark in the face of all of her interest pretty consistently. In all honesty, the way Hannah comes onto Cas—the construction of the scenes—feels like it was intended to show that Cas isn’t interested in women. Half the time he doesn’t clock her vibes, and the other half the time he awkwardly avoids acknowledging it. This culminates in her standing in front of him naked in the clearest signal she can give… and as he says, he’s ~not bothered~ by it. He’s just... well, he's gay. Lmfao. And speaking of the naked Hannah scene in 10x07, something I personally find highly amusing is that that naked scene is immediately followed by Dean enthusiastically making out with a woman. It’s a smash cut with a very pointed contrast, in my opinion! I was very struck by it.

So that's my mini tour (with imperfect recall) of Cas' Moments With Women in the story and how I feel they're positioned.

And to touch upon the idea of contrast a bit further… With Dean, there are ample moments and instances where he canonically expresses (joyful or uncomplicated) sexual attraction to women, and/or romantic love for women throughout the show. This is why his canonical attraction to women should never be in question, as part of his bisexuality. But with Cas... I don’t personally feel we have a scene of his where we can unequivocally say the same. There are always story elements at play that indicate complex motivation, or when a woman (or woman-shaped being? lol) may be interested in him there doesn’t seem to be genuine reciprocal interest on his part. The absence of a clear scene establishing he’s unequivocally attracted to women doesn’t mean he couldn’t hypothetically be… but there are no significant moments that convince me that that’s the case in canon. Instead, I think the picture these layered moments paint of Cas and his sexuality is solidified as the story progress–as part of how his sense of self solidifies and emerges story-wide in kind. By that I mean: the shades of how he reacts to Hannah are there in his reactions to Meg’s interest years prior, but in season 10 they feel more clear because by that point he understands himself better (especially after his time as a human) and has formulated his identity as a person more than he had, for example, in season 6.

The secondary part of this though is the queercoding attached to Cas–which is, by and large, gay coding. (There is also more contrast here in comparison to Dean's bi coding in that regard.) By “gay” coding, I mean… Dean describes Cas as having "sensible shoes,” which is gay slang/code, though more commonly used in reference to lesbians. Cas uses female pop artists for his aliases, which is a wink/nod to stereotypes of gay men—a pattern that’s established in later seasons concurrently to the Destiel narrative taking even deeper root. The specific micro-agressions (and outright aggressions) Cas is subjected to by others—as he's clocked as being an outsider who doesn't fit and for being in love with Dean, in ways that are often tangled together—are traditionally gay story devices at play. And I'm also fond of the seeming significance of Cas' conversation with Pastor Joe in 15x15. Cas asks the Pastor what he means by people of "all backgrounds," being welcomed, and the Pastor says, "Connor didn't have to live in fear of who he was. A gay man who believed in a tolerant God." And Cas says, "Well, I imagine not everyone was happy with the change."

In terms of why I say he’s also demi… Cas is seemingly never ~interested~ in anyone but Dean. Now, part of that is of course a byproduct of the storytelling structures he's given. But nonetheless, his singleminded focus on / interest in / devotion to Dean feels unwavering in its totality. Even as Dean stops looking to date other people in later seasons because he knows he’s fallen in love with Cas, there’s still references to or nods to his attraction to men and women as a significant part of who he is. But unless I’m forgetting things, Cas just… doesn’t really seem to have that embedded into his character. He's got an emotional attachment to (and "profound bond" with) Dean, and his attraction to and love for Dean is part of its natural extension. That’s where the demi reading comes in for me, but it’s certainly a side note / asterisk to him being gay, which I think is the prime part of his identity the text deliberately points towards overall.

Regarding Cas' gender and how that may affect any part of this discussion... Is Cas non-binary? Well, in the show overall, angels are obviously considered ~celestial wavelengths of intent~. We see the fluidity of angels in different gendered vessels, and one could say the angels' primary gender is sort of "genderless" as default. Sure. But... at minimum, I feel it's implied that Cas comes to feel at home in a male vessel's body, and in what has legitimately become his body. As Dean says, "It's not an 'it,' Sam. It's Cas." And ultimately, I feel the gender question is not really a huge part of the point in regards to how canon presents this queer story to us.

To the question of if Cas would still be "gay" if he was in a female vessel and fell in love with Dean–or even to a question of "what if Dean was a woman" I've seen plenty of other people pose in various contexts–I think it's almost like... a moot point. The homoeroticism of Dean and Cas' dynamic is significant in a multilayered way, and that was true from day one. Their dynamic is very much affected by and built on them being 2 masculine men (or Cas being perceived as a "man" if you want to go that route), both in story and out of it, particularly in Dean's reactions to Cas. And the romance, tension, push-and-pull, miscommunication, coding, and censorship–the latter being a thing that shaped story choices over the years–all exist in a specific way because their relationship is undeniably, visibly queer. Destiel as we know it could not and would not be the same if one of them was in a perceived woman's body. Their interactions would have been vastly different, and thus in my head it's impossible to conceptualize.

Supernatural is also very much a story about the deconstruction of toxic masculinity while maintaining masculinity through a queer lens. This is its own separate topic that I actually have been wanting to make a post about for awhile now (in part because over-feminization of their characters in fandom, especially in ways that lead to apply ill-fitting repression narratives to Dean's canon, can miss several points about this). Those masculinity themes are so centralized because of Dean and Cas' romance and the fact that they are two men. There is significance there, both historically and culturally.

So while maybe Cas would or could identify as non-binary... It doesn't seem like a viewpoint he is particularly aligned with, and it also doesn't feel like a significant element at play in this queer love story. That makes me tip towards saying it's not a huge factor in discussions of exact readings or terminology for Cas' canonical sexuality/identity.

As a side note: to a certain extent, I also find it interesting to contemplate how some of their miscommunication in-narrative maybe extends into the idea that Dean is attracted to women and Cas seems not to be. More than once, Dean tries to bond with Cas through ~typical male~ interests, such as when he takes him to a strip club. Dean being bi doesn't mean he avoids having heteronormativity on the brain lol, and that sort of thing in his experience is usually quick-and-easy guy bonding time, especially in hunting culture. But while Cas learns how to be human in a metaphorical sense from the Winchesters' examples in several ways (both the good and the bad habits/lessons), something he can't/doesn't pick up is attraction to women or how to act on or express that sort of attraction, because it just doesn't seem innate to him. So while Dean and Cas are certainly both queer, to me they exhibit different forms of queer experiences (bi and gay) in characteristics and in story and in coding that add a layer to their dynamic. It's a little bit of a difference between them that they maybe don't know how to awkwardly address with each other, because they often don't fucking communicate, and I can see it contributing to Dean wondering if / how much Cas has capacity to "feel that way"... making him think Cas maybe doesn't reciprocate his desire. Because they're both stupid.

Anyway! Anyway.

Back to the main points:

Let me summarize.

I personally don't think Cas is attracted to women, and that the story points to him going through a journey of learning that about himself as he grows into himself over time. The queercoding in connection to him, such as it is, also rings of being gay coding. Considering we see him primarily or solely so strongly interested in Dean, an argument/hypothesis for him being demi doesn't feel off the mark. And I don't think the question of angelic gender is super relevant to what canon points to in this discussion for Cas specifically, because I do think the m/m nature of Destiel is relevant to their story and dynamic with each other, and by later seasons at minimum Cas is seemingly comfortably "a man" (perhaps even more so than an ambiguously gendered Being).

Is there a stronger or more persuasive argument to be made about the specifics of Cas' sexuality in canon? I'd be open to hearing it, of course, but I just kind of doubt any other argument would be convincing enough to change my mind when factoring in all of the story elements at play.

However. All of this being said:

I would certainly not call an umbrella use of the word "queer" wrong for Cas. I think it is, in fact, very applicable! For one thing, the word "queer" in this instance effectively encompasses a combined gay and demi reading, as an example. For another thing, it's an understandable hat tip that simplifies his various complexities as an angel. It works.

I'm also not die-on-this-hill militant about the use of the word "gay" for Cas because I'm cognizant of how things are not 100% clearcut with him. I do not say this to negate my own analysis, but rather because I can acknowledge the truth of this particular situation. While I do think the above full picture kind of adds up to him being specifically gay, this is an instance where there is room for nuance within it and giving grace to–dare I say it–"interpretations." I personally don't really agree with or particularly feel comfortable considering him bi or pan specifically, given all the factors at play; but it doesn't overtly upset me that others do. For example, he did indeed have sex with April as a human, and I find I can't get mad at people who choose to take his interest in that moment 100% at face value, especially considering the fact that what I view to be his overall "gay arc" certainly has subtlety and room for subjectivity in it.

In conclusion,

I don't know if this post answers all your questions, anon. I don't know if it will help you or make you feel bad for some reason, though I certainly hope it's the former rather than the later! And I apologize for the length, but you touched on a lot of different branches in your message, and I'm nothing if not someone who maps out a whole fucking tree when asked to lmfaaaoooo.

Thank you for your patience as this post took me WAY too long to complete smh. Like what the hell, truly. You're a star, I love ya, and for what little it's worth I do infer that lots of people in fandom (perhaps even Misha) use "gay" as an umbrella word in reference to Cas. (I am sympathetic to your plight if that makes you feel weird though; it's not the same situation by any means, but I will share that I'm suspicious of people who call Dean "gay" even flippantly at this point, because nowadays I don't trust that shit lmao)

Send me thoughts and prayers because the "e" key on my laptop's keyboard has started periodically sticking and it's been driving me insane while working on writing this.

#supernatural #muses

[jewelleighanna]

I’m asexual (and a destiel shipper) and I agree with some of what you said. I get annoyed when fan make *everything* about shipping - when that’s all that seems to get discussed, when you have trouble finding any place in fandom for enjoying a relationship between characters on a platonic or familiar level and feel like you can’t... it can get tiring. I’ve given up trying to read Sam and Dean (brothers) fanfiction because even when it is tagged as non-romance, it too often goes there (yikes, my eyes!). Platonic/familiar anything can be hard to find. On the other hand, I support other fans for enjoying a show for any reason, so if what they enjoy is shipping, I don’t want to take that away. It just is the way it is?  Like I said, I do enjoy Destiel ship, and for me, it’s because they have a strong bond without revolving around sex. The genuine bond part most of all. It’s like the writing and story had actual time to focus and build a relationship and build up dynamic and that’s not something I’d get if you are trying to get me to go enjoy a “romance show” instead.  I can enjoy them platonically too, but it just feels like the characters have a longing for something else too.  There is part of me that wishes - or at least understands - why fans would want Destiel canon and that’s because it gives it validity. However, I’m also wary because I think the writers would mess it up.  The ending how it stands though is the actual worst. They half-acknowledged the ship, “killed” one-half the ship (bury your gays), only to have him resurrected off screen but unacknowledged. It’s shit writing to say the least. I can’t even imagine what they would do if they tried to make Destiel canon in prior seasons -- though I think bisexual!Dean would have been good representation. I disagree that Dean is obviously straight. I mean, I thought that for a long time too. But if you ignore what he says, it very much adds up that he is a closeted bisexual. And not in the way that fans make every character bisexual, I mean textually in show. Too many moments to even list here, unrelated to Cas as well moments. Dean also wouldn’t ever have to choose between Cas and Sam. That’s why Cas is ALREADY an exception to the story. Cas comes and goes from the narrative (dies and comes back to life too). Cas works independently and also with Dean. Hypothetically, they could be in a romantic relationship and not much would need to change. Cas would have no human exceptions of romance “should” look like and wouldn’t ever get between Sam and Dean. Cas even listed Dean loving Sam as one of the reasons that he (Cas) loves Dean. So no choice needed. As for Castiel, yeah, he is an angel. But... the show far deconstructed the notion that an angel is merely an warrior, angel of the lord. ESPECIALLY for Cas, fallen angel, who chose freewill, became human, chooses humanity at every opportunity. And I like the idea of Asexual!Cas, but angels are not inherently incapable of sexual or romantic attraction. Biggest outliers being Gabriel (sex at least) and Serafina (romance!). Cas is an outlier too, where ever he ends up.  

Why insert romance into one of the only shows that cherish platonic love more?

I talked to a respectful destiel shipper a couple of days ago and while they were completely respectful, there is one thing I can't understand for the life of me. Why does there have to be romance in everything? I am aroace which is probably part of it, but why can't platonic love exist? ( This isn't meant to be a dig at wincest shippers. I am very well aware you guys know the difference between fanon and canon and love the brother/soulmate/best friend/parent or adult child relationship of Sam and Dean just as much as I from a non-shipper point of view do.) Why does everyone have to kiss or have sex? Platonic love does exist and it baffles me that Dean and Cass can't just be friends even with Cass' goodbye scene. I guess I feel like they see romantic love in everything and it irks me a bit. Maybe destiel shippers are young? I'm 15 though so why would that be a factor? Is it more society's fault than anyone else's?

Why is there so much emphasis on romantic/sexual love and not a lot on platonic relationships? The one show that actually puts emphasis on a relationship that is platonic. The one show that has Sam and Dean choose each other over any romantic interest. The one show that has two brothers in a QPR. The one show that has a possible a-spec reading of one or both brothers. (I've only ever seen one for Dean but I'm sure there is one for Sam as well. ("Sex is sex and love is Sam." I love this quote so thank you to whoever wrote that.)) The one show that has Dean waiting for Sam in heaven because heaven isn't perfect without his brother. Why do they watch this show if they want a focus on romantic interests? I just think if they want a show about romance there are other shows available. Especially if you want representation. Why torture themselves when there is nothing there? ( I see the speech at the end as platonic but even if it was not it wouldn't change anything. At the most it's unrequited.)

Not to mention there are problems with wanting it in canon. ( Shipping it in fanon only is a whole other thing but while I'm sure there are destiel shippers who may do this I'm talking about ones who actually wanted it/saw it( from Dean's side) in canon.) The first problem is Dean canonically is straight. Plenty of evidence for that. The second thing is his love for Sam. Canonically they have left love interests and friends for each other. There is no way in canon that Dean doesn't dump Cass at some point even if Dean was bisexual. Dean could be literally any sexuality but if Sam existed and he was ever aware of it Cass would be fed to the wolves. Also, I don't even like Cass ( I'm a Sam-leaning bibro who is still mad at Cass for breaking Sam's wall and rendering Sam's sacrifice in season 5 meaningless by saying yes to Lucifer in season 11 and messing everything up.) but Cass is literally an angel. Angels are jerks and I think they got that from Chuck but they are also warriors meant to be in an army. I don't even like him, but I know it's a disservice to his character.

That being said shoutout to respectful destiel shippers. I can't say I understand but I thank you for being respectful because a lot of destiel shippers (hellers) are not.

#supernatural #destiel #muses

[jewelleighanna]

Yes, I think Jack basically taped into Castiel’s desires. Because the three images shown to Cas are exactly what Cas desired. a) Cas with wings/powers again. Season 12 Cas was feeling especially useless, so of course he would want his full powers, but also the wings... I don’t think that was even explored enough how much he missed them (although he said at least once that he did, so yes). b) Dean happy and appreciating Cas. Need I say more? Pretty much on the nose of what Cas wanted from Dean. c) Sam - vague but generic Sam in a good place. Cas wishes Sam well and all that. The other reason I don’t think Jack showed Cas any version of a future is that... Jack never showed any ability to predict the future. Even the most powerful beings (Chuck, Amara, Death, etc) were murky on the exact future, but aside on that, Jack... never had seer-like powers. The question then becomes did Jack show a version of a future that he (Jack) wanted/planned to create? Maybe. What we know of Jack he did want for his family to be happy, so sure, baby Jack could also have generally wanted to create said paradise. I agree 100% that it was still manipulation. It is why it took me SO long to warm up to Jack. Through manipulation, he took away both Cas and Kelly’s freewill. But I also think Cas did grow to love Jack for his own sake, not merely for the “future.” As for the empty, maybe Cas did still have faith in Jack. Which wouldn’t be totally misplace though? Technically, Jack did bring back the world and get Cas out of the empty and the writers might argue that “paradise” is really Heaven after they “fixed” it. (I have all kinds of issues with this interpretation, because the rest is terrible, but still, you can see that the writers were trying for this faux perfect happy ending.). But I agree, it’s faux and most about the ending was terrible.

Listen. I like Jack, I do. And I love that Cas loves Jack. But I think a lot of people forget why he loves Jack. Why his purpose became protecting Jack and being Jack’s father. It’s not because it comes naturally to him, or because he made the decision to do it unprompted. He’s an angel, not a father.

In the womb, Jack showed Cas the utopian future he was going to bring into existence. Cas with his wings back, Sam running through a field, and Dean looking at Cas with happiness and saying “thank you”. That’s just what we know he saw. He might have seen more. And that’s what Cas was working for. That’s why he was protecting Jack so vehemently, even at the expense of his friendship with Dean and Sam, even in the face of Jack killing Mary; he thought that if he protected Jack, it would all work out in the end, and that future would come to fruition.

Everyone always thinks the best of Cas as Jack’s father, but he loved Jack and cared so much about Jack because he wanted that future. Jack was his purpose. He wanted what Jack showed him, and was willing to go to any lengths to get it.

AND HE NEVER GOT IT.

Jack lied to him, to get him to protect him, to get him to be the father that he wanted. Jack chose him as his father, not the other way around, and he manipulated him into being what he wanted with visions of the “future”. He showed him what he wanted most, to get him on his side. He truly was Lucifer’s son all along.

Even if the cut scenes of the future from the script weren’t canon, I still think Jack lied. There’s NO WAY Jack showed him the future that actually happened, and Cas was motivated by that. No way. None. Himself being taken by the empty, Dean being killed on a stake by vampires, Sam having a kid he names Dean and dying of old age. Yeah, that sure seems like a purpose to rally behind alright! (that was sarcasm btw)

And I think Cas was still holding out hope for whatever future he did see when he was taken by the empty. I think he still believed in Jack then, and still thought it would all turns out okay. But it didn’t. Because Jack lied to him.

#muses #supernatural #jack #castiel

[jewelleighanna]

The writers have an issue with what they see as overpowered characters. More especially, characters that would prevent the Sam and Dean being the ones to save the day. Season 5 was the only season where Castiel was on the Winchester’s side fully and (almost) had full powers. Season 5 also had the highest stakes, other than seasons 11 and 15, so Cas still was less powerful than the villains (and the writers still depowered Cas right before the big fight in the climax with Lucifer). The writers’ solution after that was to:   a) Make Cas an antagonist or semi-antagonist. Season 6, season 8, and season 11. (Being controlled in season 8 and Casifer in season 11). b) Make Cas incompetent. Season 7, season 9, season 10, and season 12. Season 7 both lost of memory and general “crazy,” season 9 human, season 10 sick, season 12 lost. The writers tried to find a balance in seasons 13-15, where Cas was around and on the Winchesters side and also weakened Castiel’s powers to something like human-esque with smiting powers. But all that also weakened his narrative arc. To the point that he died and was brought back to life at the series finale yet not even an appearance.

honestly can anyone tell me why the writers had like a hate boner for cas after season 5???

it’s like they met in their little writer room and were like ah yes let’s destroy all of castiel’s meaningful connections make him the villain multiple times, kill him, make him make TERRIBLE choices, and ah yes don’t forget to make sure he’s the cause of multiple full season issues☺️☺️

#I don't agree with the writers #especially the later seasons

[jewelleighanna]

I agree that Dean and Lisa had tender moments and genuine care, but it also felt like going through the motions to me. Not romantic, but it’s open enough to interpretation, so that’s fine. Cassie and Suzy were both one-episode characters. If we are talking about lack of depth with Dean and women, those would be examples. Because of this short frame, Cassie is not an equivalent - in the sense that Crowley, Benny, Cas span multiple episodes or even multiple seasons. Bela and Jo are characters that span episodes but still had no depth in their relationship with Dean. There was flirting but not... Dean didn’t open up in any way or connect on a deeper level. Anna and Dean did have a short-lived connection. They have a strange relationship too, in that it felt zero romantic. But still sex. Yet, not really friendship either. It felt like maybe the writers wanted it to be more but then just... nope. Minor connection to just nothing. Anyway, I don’t really feel like I’m arguing anything in particular at this point. I  agree that the show has a huge sexist problem and not enough female characters, so maybe it could have gone another way. It definitely felt like the writers were clueless on how Dean’s relationships with men would be interpreted, so yeah, seems they also just assumed that people would accept his relationships with women even without depth because they were women. That reasoning doesn’t work with me though.

once again seeing posts on my dash saying that dean is bisexual yet cannot have a real healthy romantic or sexual relationship with a woman, so here’s a few fun little reminders

- dean and cassie were in love and had a sweet, healthy relationship together (healthier, in fact, than jess and sam’s, since he did tell her about the supernatural; he in fact does point out to sam that him not telling the truth to jess is unhealthy in the pilot, and later that season we’re shown dean doesn’t do the same)

- until soulless sam showed up, dean was living a happy, healthy life with lisa as his romantic and sexual partner and even coparenting a child with her for a year

- every time dean has a sexual relationship with a woman, it’s later described as fun for both; they in fact often have a friendly and sweet relationship before they decide to make it sexual; for example suzy and anna, with whom dean didn’t ‘perform’, just was himself and then was surprised but happy when they made a move to take things further

- on several occasions, dean was propositioned by women and declined. jo is the most memorable one; dean was aware that his feelings for her were not what she wanted, and he turned her down gently. dean is more than capable to understand and act on his feelings for women, he doesn’t feel like he ‘has’ to sleep with them. he sometimes even just flirts for fun without actual ulterior motive; not because he feels like he has to, but because he enjoys flirting (his own subconscious as pamela tells us so)

dean’s had plenty of healthy and sweet relationships with women in the show. just because the one who ended up being the best for him is cas who is in a male vessel doesn’t invalidate these previous relationships. of all the horrible things dean had to live through, two things dean has always seemed to find fun and enjoyable were food and sex, which there’s nothing wrong with, once again!

absolutely nothing wrong with people having their own headcanons, of course. personally im just a little tired, as a bisexual, of that good old stereotype of bi women being just straight girls in denial and bi men being just gay men in denial. dean is bi. he enjoys romantic and sexual intimacy with men and women. and honestly good for him. he deserves to enjoy it and he deserves to have fun with his bisexuality.

#supernatural #muses

[jewelleighanna]

Sam/Jess was meant to parallel with John/Mary, including the flaws of having secrets. With John/Mary, it could have been John who died just as easily. Regardless, her not telling the truth is what led to Sam and Dean being raised the way they did, as hunters minus the knowledge on how to arm themselves. Despite the parallels, I don’t think the fact it was the *secrets* that led to all the issues was ever addressed? Anyway, I can forgive Sam for Jess, but in no way was that a healthy relationship. Neither was Sam/Amelia. Actually, the latter was worse as Sam was older but learned nothing (and okay, if it was meant to be a step back for him, but again, the secret part of the flaw was never addressed.) Personally, for his ending, I was wanting/expecting Sam to end up running his own dispatch of hunters or becoming more into the research/men of letters side of things. So like... half-way retire from hunting. It seemed that where his arch was going in season 13-14, and it would have worked better for me, to break this idea that it has to be either/or. However, if nothing else changed, except the confirmation that he stayed with Eileen, it would be 20% better. Because at least one person in his life would be there to understand and bridge the gap for his life.

Taking another look at Sam and Eileen’s relationship and I finally realized why it’s the only canon romantic relationship he had that I enjoyed: she knows he’s a hunter

One of the things I could never excuse is how Sam used women, Dean is guilty of it as well, as a way to live a “normal” life.

He was willing to lie to Jessica for the rest of his life, even stating that he never planned to tell her anything. And then he did the same thing with Amelia, both relationships interrupted by Dean.

Anytime Sam tries to get out of the hunting life, he latches on to women to reassure himself that he’s doing the opposite of what he would in the hunting life.

Eileen broke that pattern. She knew he was a hunter and was also a hunter. It started their relationship so that it wasn’t built on lies and actually felt real, not some illusion Sam was trying to build around himself as an emotional shield.

This just makes me even more upset at the fact Eileen was never confirmed to be the blurry wife, or that there was even the blurry wife in the first place. Sam fell back into his pattern with the death of Dean, which cued him to leave the hunting life, as always.

This most likely means Sam found another woman, if it wasn’t Eileen, and rebuilt his own ideal “perfect” life that his character development should’ve destroyed years ago.

anywho, pro saileen :D

#supernatural #muses

[jewelleighanna]

One of the most enriching things about reading is that it allows you to walk in someone else’s shoes, see how they would react and interact in a way that you never would, in a world or environment that you will never experience. Characters who may be absolutely nothing like you. I would just add that diversity and representation are important - which I feel is the most common way where this subject gets brought up. But there tends to be an emphasis on the first point, and less about how it is enriching for everyone.

Not every story is about seeing yourself in it. Sometimes it’s about learning to see other people too.

#stories

[jewelleighanna]

1000%.  Eileen breaks the pattern and also, she is the only woman introduced who was a position to understand Sam. “Blurry wife” was the worst idea. If she wasn’t Eileen, then it means Sam would never break the pattern of opening up about his life and forever keeping his two lives “hunter” and “normal” separate. It was one thing with Jessica. Not that secrets are okay, but he was in a place that he could have run away forever and been happy. After going towards 40-years of supernatural trauma (not to mention the extra 180 years of hell), normal was not in the cards for him. He didn’t have to hunt, but he needed to blend his two lives together. If he refused, then he would never be anything short of lonely and miserable for the rest of his life. Reason 505 that the ending was the worst. The ending had the characters end up where they always said they would. This is slightly fixed if blurry wife is Eileen.

Taking another look at Sam and Eileen’s relationship and I finally realized why it’s the only canon romantic relationship he had that I enjoyed: she knows he’s a hunter

One of the things I could never excuse is how Sam used women, Dean is guilty of it as well, as a way to live a “normal” life.

He was willing to lie to Jessica for the rest of his life, even stating that he never planned to tell her anything. And then he did the same thing with Amelia, both relationships interrupted by Dean.

Anytime Sam tries to get out of the hunting life, he latches on to women to reassure himself that he’s doing the opposite of what he would in the hunting life.

Eileen broke that pattern. She knew he was a hunter and was also a hunter. It started their relationship so that it wasn’t built on lies and actually felt real, not some illusion Sam was trying to build around himself as an emotional shield.

This just makes me even more upset at the fact Eileen was never confirmed to be the blurry wife, or that there was even the blurry wife in the first place. Sam fell back into his pattern with the death of Dean, which cued him to leave the hunting life, as always.

This most likely means Sam found another woman, if it wasn’t Eileen, and rebuilt his own ideal “perfect” life that his character development should’ve destroyed years ago.

anywho, pro saileen :D

#or chuck won #supernatural #muses #salieen

[jewelleighanna]

You are invalidating anything. I’m happy to discuss. :) Cassie is the best example of “romantic.” It’s the closest to a portrayal of what you would expect in a romantic relationship. I could argue around it (Dean got caught up in the idea of love or some such thing) but objectively watching, it’s clear that it was meant as an average one-episode romantic pairing. I think this pairing only gets discussed to the extinct that it is does, because it is Dean’s only classic “romantic” pairing. That’s pretty telling. As for Lisa, yes, absolutely her and Ben are a package deal. But in the show there was an over emphasis in that and little to show Dean’s feelings towards Lisa directly. If he just talked about one of them, he was more likely to talk about Ben, which I’m not saying is wrong. Ben was like his kid, but that’s just it. The whole arc with them was about Dean experiencing a family. Would he have even stayed with Lisa for as long as he did if not for Ben? The argument that Dean wasn’t in a place to love, I don’t know. That didn’t stop Sam when he was in the same position. Sam/Amelia was unhealthy, but he did say he loved her more than once. It’s not just that Dean didn’t say he was in love with Lisa, nothing really showed it either. Anyway, I didn’t realize that the original thought was about whether Dean’s relationships with men were *different* than his relationships with woman. I would actually say yes, for sure. Not different as in more or less romantic (because mostly there was no romance)... but different. His closest relationships with men (none human interestingly but male-coded so okay) were Benny, Crowley, and Cas. The reasons these all felt different was because of the connection. Like an unspoken understanding and tension when there was lack of understanding. A back and forth. And a depth to the relationships. His closest relationship with woman were... Lisa and Jo? Lisa was written to be in the supportive role, she was constantly supporting Dean, but there lacked a back and forth challenging one another. Dean flirted with Jo, but there was a lack of ever getting on the same page at all. Some people say Dean saw her like a sister, but to me, it was just never that deep at all. This doesn’t prove he is incapable of experiencing romantic feelings towards woman, but it does show that he mostly doesn’t. To anyone actually - it’s rare at least. (Added note. As for his friendships, yes, I absolutely agree with you. He is great at establishing repertoire. His familiar relationships are also something that belong in another category [Jack, Kevin, Charlie, Bobby] and it’s easy to contrast the different way he interacts with them as well.)

once again seeing posts on my dash saying that dean is bisexual yet cannot have a real healthy romantic or sexual relationship with a woman, so here’s a few fun little reminders

- dean and cassie were in love and had a sweet, healthy relationship together (healthier, in fact, than jess and sam’s, since he did tell her about the supernatural; he in fact does point out to sam that him not telling the truth to jess is unhealthy in the pilot, and later that season we’re shown dean doesn’t do the same)

- until soulless sam showed up, dean was living a happy, healthy life with lisa as his romantic and sexual partner and even coparenting a child with her for a year

- every time dean has a sexual relationship with a woman, it’s later described as fun for both; they in fact often have a friendly and sweet relationship before they decide to make it sexual; for example suzy and anna, with whom dean didn’t ‘perform’, just was himself and then was surprised but happy when they made a move to take things further

- on several occasions, dean was propositioned by women and declined. jo is the most memorable one; dean was aware that his feelings for her were not what she wanted, and he turned her down gently. dean is more than capable to understand and act on his feelings for women, he doesn’t feel like he ‘has’ to sleep with them. he sometimes even just flirts for fun without actual ulterior motive; not because he feels like he has to, but because he enjoys flirting (his own subconscious as pamela tells us so)

dean’s had plenty of healthy and sweet relationships with women in the show. just because the one who ended up being the best for him is cas who is in a male vessel doesn’t invalidate these previous relationships. of all the horrible things dean had to live through, two things dean has always seemed to find fun and enjoyable were food and sex, which there’s nothing wrong with, once again!

absolutely nothing wrong with people having their own headcanons, of course. personally im just a little tired, as a bisexual, of that good old stereotype of bi women being just straight girls in denial and bi men being just gay men in denial. dean is bi. he enjoys romantic and sexual intimacy with men and women. and honestly good for him. he deserves to enjoy it and he deserves to have fun with his bisexuality.

#supernatural #muses

[jewelleighanna]

Bisexual Dean adds up. However, I can also entertain the idea of Dean being on the aroromanic scale (if not aro, then gray-romantic or demi) or, less supported textually homoromantic (as in bisexual homoromantic; however, that would be based on the unknown). Personally, I do not see Dean with “real, healthy” romantic relationships with women. Sexual? Absolutely. Romantic feelings? Up for debate. Cassie is probably the closest example for us seeing Dean have romantic feelings, but actually... their relationship was said to have lasted all of a couple of weeks. Then after they were reunited and parted again, Dean never spoke about or saw her again. I’m not sure how deep that relationship can be categorized. Lisa is the only long-term relationship he was ever in. With that whole storyline, there was a weird focus on her and Ben being the family he always wanted. Family. Never “in love.” Never love. Never the woman who lights up his life or some other romantic trope line. She is nearly always referred to as “Lisa and Ben,” and stated as “family.” And you can actually compare this to how Sam and his various romantic relationships were treated. Dean obviously cared about Lisa, no debate, but it is up for debate whether he was in love, including the fact that he was only with her and Ben because he promised Sam to try a normal life. Jo is actually a good example of him not reciprocating romantically. Again, up for debate, I guess, but it seems he turned her down because he knew she wanted more or felt she deserved more. Like he could flirt and in the right circumstance, he would sleep with her. More than that, not so much. Susy and Anna were show to be classic one-night stands, along with other shown or implied off screen flings. Sexual but not romantic. Also it’s up for debate I guess whether not having romantic relationships was because he chooses to focus on work, or whether he has a genuine lack of desire or lack of romantic attraction. I don’t have a strong view one or the other on that part. I guess with Cassie, I don’t put him as all the way aro, but also not all the way romantic/not sure.

once again seeing posts on my dash saying that dean is bisexual yet cannot have a real healthy romantic or sexual relationship with a woman, so here’s a few fun little reminders

- dean and cassie were in love and had a sweet, healthy relationship together (healthier, in fact, than jess and sam’s, since he did tell her about the supernatural; he in fact does point out to sam that him not telling the truth to jess is unhealthy in the pilot, and later that season we’re shown dean doesn’t do the same)

- until soulless sam showed up, dean was living a happy, healthy life with lisa as his romantic and sexual partner and even coparenting a child with her for a year

- every time dean has a sexual relationship with a woman, it’s later described as fun for both; they in fact often have a friendly and sweet relationship before they decide to make it sexual; for example suzy and anna, with whom dean didn’t ‘perform’, just was himself and then was surprised but happy when they made a move to take things further

- on several occasions, dean was propositioned by women and declined. jo is the most memorable one; dean was aware that his feelings for her were not what she wanted, and he turned her down gently. dean is more than capable to understand and act on his feelings for women, he doesn’t feel like he ‘has’ to sleep with them. he sometimes even just flirts for fun without actual ulterior motive; not because he feels like he has to, but because he enjoys flirting (his own subconscious as pamela tells us so)

dean’s had plenty of healthy and sweet relationships with women in the show. just because the one who ended up being the best for him is cas who is in a male vessel doesn’t invalidate these previous relationships. of all the horrible things dean had to live through, two things dean has always seemed to find fun and enjoyable were food and sex, which there’s nothing wrong with, once again!

absolutely nothing wrong with people having their own headcanons, of course. personally im just a little tired, as a bisexual, of that good old stereotype of bi women being just straight girls in denial and bi men being just gay men in denial. dean is bi. he enjoys romantic and sexual intimacy with men and women. and honestly good for him. he deserves to enjoy it and he deserves to have fun with his bisexuality.

#I feel most people see Dean as either straight or bi #less people label him as gay #for what that's worth #muses #supernatural

[jewelleighanna]

Excellent additions to a really old post! I find myself mostly still in agreement with what I originally said. Yet, years removed and having watched the rest of the seasons now, I can see clearly that a rational (Watsonian as you say) explanation can’t fully explain, because the explanation isn’t there. I can see this now, because similar irrational choices happens in season 3-7. At EVERY turn, Jroth and the other writers wrote their characters to choose illogical choices. Anytime a character was presented with a choice, the worst choice possibly was chosen. Not because it makes sense for them to choose it but because that’s the worst choice. I stopped following The 100 in season 5 because it left me in believably completely. I’m tempted to write up a list of every choice in The 100 that is completely illogical. Edgy for the sake of edgy is what I would call it. Lexa’s choice at Mt Weather still remains one of the poorest thought out characterizations.

Lexa’s Decisions at Mt Weather were Unwise: Part 2

Part 1

Every defense for Lexa taking the deal at Mt Weather is that she made the decision that was best for her people. The question becomes: was it best for her people?



Part 2: Lexa saved 60 people at the cost of hundreds and thousands of people’s lives.

By taking the deal at Mt Weather, Lexa saved 60 people in Mt Weather. In so doing, she allowed HUNDREDS of people to die (or negated the sacrifice they already made) and she risked THOUSANDS of their lives in the future. In this essay, I am going to go into the data and really talk the numbers of how many people Lexa didn’t save by taking the deal (and the ones she did).

Here’s who Lexa saved:



60 grounder prisoners



Here’s the people Lexa didn’t save:

250 people in TonDC. By taking the deal at Mt Weather and not defeating them, Lexa negated the sacrifice at TonDC. Basically 250 people died at TonDC to better insure the rescue of 60 people. To calculate: 190 more people died in TonDC than were rescued in Mt Weather (if she was into the rescue business, saving TonDC would be a better deal). Lexa could have possibly saved both groups. (More on this.)

48 Skaikru prisoners. I get it. Those are not Lexa’s people, so she didn’t feel she had any obligation to them (even though she DID… that’s what an alliance means. She wouldn’t have made it to the mountain without their help). Anyway, wherever you count them, she didn’t save them.

20-40 reapers. This is a group that almost NEVER gets mentioned. By taking the deal at Mt Weather, Lexa ensured their continued enslavement and/or death. If the deal had gone as Lexa thought, they would have stayed enslaved. Breaking the alliance with Skaikru meant Skaikru wouldn’t save them. Even if the mountain men freed the reapers (which I don’t think so), the grounders didn’t have the technology to save them. With Clarke and Skaikru killing everyone in the mountain and ending the alliance, most likely all the reapers died.



Total = 318-338 people who Lexa didn’t save.

If you are following this:

Lexa saved 60 people, while 300+ people, who she could have saved, died. That’s not a lot of kudos to her. She could have certainly saved 250 people in TonDC instead of the 60 (better deal), and she probably could have save ALL the people at Mt Weather - grounder prisoners, skaikru, and reapers - at an additional expense:

Keep reading

#the 100 #muses #the 100 meta

[jewelleighanna]

Both angels and their vessels can enter Heaven. That’s pretty obvious in later seasons when they are coming and going back in forth. We see them jump from the sandpit and right into door 42 in Heaven. Their vessels are not left behind. I think initially the writers played with vessels NOT being allowed into Heaven, as seen when Castiel is zapped away from Jimmy to go to Heaven. That was clearly adapted when we began to have more and more scenes that take place in Heaven, the concept of Heaven evolved somewhat. (Also, if vessels were left behind, the whole consent issue would really come into play more. Imagine after a million years together that Metatron’s vessel says “hell no” when Metatron tries to come back from Heaven to Earth. Too complicated to go through that every five minutes.) So it seems the rule is that vessels can enter heaven and the angel’s grace protects them from getting burnt out For angels that aren’t supposed to be in vessels while in Heaven yet still appear as human, it’s like Zach said. Angels appear human to humans - and we viewers are human (it’s a meta explanation). There’s also the matter of budget, where they didn’t have the budget to completely create CGI beings. Either way, angels can appear human if they want to, so that’s what we get. In the case of Hell, physical beings can enter Hell - as per Dean and Sam’s daytrips into Hell. Physical beings are also allowed into Purgatory. The demon souls and human souls in Hell are.... ghosts, which of course means they appear human in Hell. Demons are twisted souls, so may not appear strictly human or perhaps they can appear any way they want to (evidence when a demon appears as Sam to Bobby).

I know it's been said but like it's so dumb that they show angels/demons in heaven and hell in spn. Zachariah's got three faces and one of those is a lion, Cas is the size of the Chrysler building... and then it's just Kurt Fuller and Misha Collins. Do all angels, despite hating humans, just chill in them while doing random admin in heaven? Is it a psychic imprint? Is Jimmy Novak stashed somewhere in a cupboard while Cas visits upstairs? What's with the sandpit? Why is does this it maybe is a show sometimes is it make sense?! Hmm?!?!

#spn #muses

[jewelleighanna]

Supernatural is a show about people sitting on benches

#supernatural

[jewelleighanna]

The Empty has no power on earth -- can’t even go to earth without being called, so an “only heaven” deal doesn’t make sense? How could that be enforced and why? I’ve read many theories that Castiel has to cut out his grace to leave the empty, in which case he is “human.” Metatron seemed to think human!Cas would go to heaven when he died, and if that’s the case, then it make sense if Jack counts Cas as “dead” then he can only be in Heaven. I guess (personally, if that’s true, I’d resent Jack for not making one last exception to allow Cas to be on earth considering the circumstances). Also, if one of those theories were true, it requires an explanation as much - or more - than anything else. Bad writing, honestly.

ok but you know what's insane and we don't talk about enough? "cas helped". cas got out of the empty. we don't know how but it can be assumed that jack had something to do with it. so if it was possible to get cas out, WHY wasn't dean in on it. why did he have to die to find out? even IF jack was only able to like, amend cas's empty deal so he was only allowed to go to heaven and not earth and that's why he didn't drop in on dean, why didn't jack say anything? i know he decided to be hands off or whatever but rescuing cas isn't hands off, and i don't see why he couldn't drop by the bunker like hey btw cas is safe and in heaven he's happy and he misses you and he's watching over you. it really wasn't that hard. it really doesn't make sense

#and then Cas wasn't even there to greet Dean in Heaven #but this is a heartbreaking theory all the same

[jewelleighanna]

Age gaps matter less the older one gets. Maturity plays a factor as well, as does... just where you are in life. Ka/taang wouldn’t have to be 12 years later. lol. I would recommend at least 4 years though, so Aang would be 16, which seems to be the age of “adult” in the world of Avatar. Same with Toph - girls may often mature faster, but if we are talking about Sokka who is four years older, that makes consent sticky, so best if they are both adults. 

ATLA Rant

Honestly, bless that ATLA came out on Netflix. The benefit is two-fold because not only do I get to watch the show on my actual television instead of my phone BUT it is back in the main-stream consciousness with a new ferocity! It’s the original fandom’s time to shine lol I am back on my ATLA trip and since I’m done with school now I will have some time to get back on my b and indulge. Really digging that Tokka thing again,,, also,,,, I never really shipped Kataang but literally it would never happen because he is a 12-year-old child and Katara was well on her way to being 16 and is literally his mother. Nope. Maybe in a few years when/if he grows out of his infatuation and she is no longer babying him as a younger brother. 

As someone who has dated someone nearly two years younger I can honestly say that if I were a 14/15 year old I would never look at a 12/13-year-old little boy who OBVIOUSLY has a baby crush on me and whom I feel compelled to mother over. Not hating on anyone, fr, because Katara is a wonderful person for many reasons and so is Aang but nope. When I was 19 is when I looked at my 17-year-old bf ( he was a year and 6 months younger than me but you know.. also I waited till he turned 18 to date him because it was too weird saying we were a full 2 year age difference idk) and thought it would work. Any younger and not a dang shot no. I like them together as adults or young adults but as I rewatched the show I just can’t see it happening this way.. you know?

#atla #muses

[jewelleighanna]

When I was 20, I dated someone who was 19 (and immature). I remind myself so much of Katara with Aang and huge reason I can’t get behind Ka/taang. I even used the words "I'm confused" about our relationship. I dated him because it was expected. But I viewed him as a child and had to mother him... and it was attraction killer. I cared about him but not romantic - I was just too young to understand at that time.  If the writers were really set on Ka/taang, I would have preferred to have the series end with everyone single. Then in LOK, they could have filled in the backstory that said Katara and Aang didn’t get together until 12 years later. I say 12 years because that was the amount of time before Roku married his wife after having a crush on her. It could be a different amount of time... but I think that story works. In Roku’s case, he left to learn how to be the avatar and came back grown up, but the same could go for Aang. Even if Aang learned the elements, he still had a lot to learn about life and his role in the world. With passage of time and growing up, Aang and Katara’s relationship would reset and it’s believable they could have an entirely different dynamic at that point.  Personally, I feel the same about Tokka. She has to grow up too. Even moreso with the larger age gap.

ATLA Rant

Honestly, bless that ATLA came out on Netflix. The benefit is two-fold because not only do I get to watch the show on my actual television instead of my phone BUT it is back in the main-stream consciousness with a new ferocity! It’s the original fandom’s time to shine lol I am back on my ATLA trip and since I’m done with school now I will have some time to get back on my b and indulge. Really digging that Tokka thing again,,, also,,,, I never really shipped Kataang but literally it would never happen because he is a 12-year-old child and Katara was well on her way to being 16 and is literally his mother. Nope. Maybe in a few years when/if he grows out of his infatuation and she is no longer babying him as a younger brother. 

As someone who has dated someone nearly two years younger I can honestly say that if I were a 14/15 year old I would never look at a 12/13-year-old little boy who OBVIOUSLY has a baby crush on me and whom I feel compelled to mother over. Not hating on anyone, fr, because Katara is a wonderful person for many reasons and so is Aang but nope. When I was 19 is when I looked at my 17-year-old bf ( he was a year and 6 months younger than me but you know.. also I waited till he turned 18 to date him because it was too weird saying we were a full 2 year age difference idk) and thought it would work. Any younger and not a dang shot no. I like them together as adults or young adults but as I rewatched the show I just can’t see it happening this way.. you know?

#atla #muses

[jewelleighanna]

Well, part of Zuko’s arc was about him facing Azula, so no one could take his place. That wouldn’t even make sense as the duel was about the thrown. That said, he COULD have gone alone. Azusa was unhinged, so it could be written so he wins on his own. If Katara (or any second person) wasn’t there, he wouldn’t have been hit with lightning, so that wouldn’t be a concern.  That said, that ending would feel insufficient. Having Katara there, brings Zuko and Katara’s arcs full circle. From always fighting against one another, to fighting together. Plus, Zuko, you know, NOT being alone is important. Also, I agree Katara is the best one who could beat Azula. She was the only one  from team Avatar ever to get an upper hand on Azula.  Zuko no doubt recognize this, so it’s reasonable that he would ask her first. Add that Sokka would have the least to bring to a fight against Azula, and Zuko had the least bonding with Toph. 

let's talk about the sheer necessity of pairing zuko and katara together at the series finale.

firstly, zuko and katara have always spent the season's finales together so it only seems fit to continue that tradition.

but you may think that they didn't HAVE to be paired together. I've often seen posts stating Zuko could've gone with anyone but I honestly believe it HAD to be Katara. In the finale, they needed something only the other person knew in order to be saved. Katara needed Zuko's ability to redirect lightning to be saved from Azula and then also have the time to save him. Zuko needed Katara's healing abilities to be saved from the damage Azula's lightning caused and to capitalize on the moments he had before death. Who else in the gAang could have provided those vital attributes? (I'm excluding Aang because clearly his destiny was to spend the finale with the Firelord therefore he COULD NOT have been there for Katara or Zuko. The narrative/story just doesn't allow it.)

If for some weird reason let's say Zuko didn't go to fight his own sister and instead Katara went with Suki or Sokka or Toph. Any of them would have taken the lighting for Katara but they would've immediately died because they don't know how to redirect lightning. Hence Katara's healing abilities would have been useless.

If Zuko had chosen Sokka or Suki or Toph to go with him, YES he would've still taken the lighting for them, but none of them would have been able to save him in time because they don't have healing abilities.

It HAD to be Zuko and Katara together at the end.

#not sure where I'm going with this #atla #muses