locustonlioden-blog

[locustonlioden-blog]

Hazbin Hotel would be so much more interesting if charlie’s naïveté and surface-level kindness were treated as the actual flaws they are and didn’t work. Heads up, this kinda just turned into a text wall of charlie neg and ranting so don’t read if you don’t want to see that.

How she currently is, she just doesn’t make that much sense in the setting. I’ve seen ppl say that charlie is a fresh take and contrasts the edginess, but I just don’t see how she is possible. You’re telling me she’s been in hell for 200 yrs but still has this childish and naive personality, is still disgusted by the sinners being cannibalistic, violent, and even just horny, and is so detached from those she calls “her people”? She was born in hell, shouldn’t that make her more used to the sinners’ depravity and not less? She doesn’t seem to have a good grasp on what the sinners want or how they behave. It would make more sense if the show leaned into the toxic positivity white savior nepo baby angle (or rather, actually portrayed it as a *bad* thing) and rather than naïveté, her ignorance was out of narcissism and/or lack of true empathy for the other sinners. She would be more interesting as a character too imo.

She looks down on the other sinners (and honestly so does the show?? When she’s showing lucifer around and introduces her to her friends, they’re framed as unappealing as a joke… these are the characters the audience is also supposed to care about.. and many of the bg chars, such as the cannibal town residents, are portrayed as simple-minded brutes), there’s a lot of condescending “….ooookay” type of lines and she constantly has to think of nice ways to frame the clearly negative things she thinks about others. So why does she want to save them so much? The more reasonable explanation is a sense of white savior-ness than actually caring about them.

She’s eager to excuse whatever sir pentious did (which I’m assuming she doesn’t know?) and let him in, despite how he makes the other residents (including her own gf!) uncomfortable. And yes I say excuse, because she never inquires about his past sins or discussed him repenting. It seems to start with sorry, but also end with sorry too. This could’ve been made interesting if she simultaneously looked down on but also excused all sorts of heinous acts. Like val is the most openly manipulative and scummy character, he licks her arm, and yet she’s still apologetic about ruining things (Side note, if she’s genuinely apologetic, then she’s actually an idiot because why is she talking to the boom-mic employee *while they’re filming???*).

She doesn’t know what she’s doing and has no concrete plan but gets incredulous at ppl who don’t blindly trust her. Angel has to leave in ep 4 and she gets SO frustrated over it, like you seriously expect everyone to drop all of their other commitments for you? She has her webster definition notecards for the meeting with heaven and has to improvise and rely on angel being good at the club but she gets mad that lucifer isn’t 100% behind her plan?

Also, trust falls? Really? Then she goes “why isn’t this working? We’ve tried everything!” But on that note, the actual episode portrayal is kinda exactly what I’m going for. Not only do the trust falls not work, charlie says, “I love all of you so much,” pulls her puppy eyes, and only vaggie catches her. It’s surface level and shallow, and does not win anyone else over.

In contrast, vaggie’s attempt at building trust, throwing everyone into a battle, *actually works* (despite vaggie only being in hell for 3 years and being heaven-born, she already knows how things work better than charlie!) and yet charlie talks about it as though it already failed. She says “we work best as a team,” with the underlying message being “I can’t trust you to do things on your own.”

If she was waiting so long to reconnect with lucifer, then why hasn’t she called him in years?? Altho I’m currently rotating lucifer in my brain so I might be a bit biased

“If angels can do whatever and stay in the sky” they can’t?? Your dad is RIGHT there. I. What

She has a power dynamic with every other character except lucifer since she has her demon powers, not to mention she’s giving them a place to stay. When vaggie says she appreciates that charlie doesn’t use her powers, charlie doesn’t say “it wouldn’t be right,” she says it would be too *mean.* But if someone pushes her buttons, who’s to say they wouldn’t slip out (see her flip on a dime after val hits angel. Obv it’s justified in this case, but it shows that she’s willing to use her powers on sinners)? Again, it would be interesting if the show actually leaned into this angle. Imagine if she put on a nice front, never swore, seemed genuinely touching and understanding, but the second someone annoys her she annihilates them and becomes threatening and violent. Then she turns around and is nice again. Too much like alastor? idk

Also, many characters refer to her by calling her lucifer’s daughter, so clearly ppl know that if they cross her they’ll face his wrath by proxy (this also fits in thematically with what lute tells her in the first episode, that she’s exempt from the exterminations bc nepotism privilege). So realistically, everyone else would be a bunch of sucking-up yes-men bc they’re afraid of her. Which they kind of are when push comes to shove?

At first, she doesn’t help at all during the war and lets everyone else fight for her. Doesn’t want to get her hands dirty ig, even though all of this was caused by her in the first place. She only starts fighting at vaggie’s urging.

Like husker points out, every meeting charlie has with the angels makes things worse for all the sinners. Despite lucifer’s warnings that the meeting with heaven won’t work, and against vaggie saying to calm down, charlie basically picks a fight with heaven at the risk of *everyone else EXCEPT HER.*

What were charlie and lilith doing to stop the exterminations before lilith took her 7 year leave? Hell, what was charlie doing during those 7 years? Why does she have 0 connections outside of vaggie, who she only met 3 yrs ago? Why does she have to introduce herself to rosie, rather than her already knowing her name?

Also in ep 7 she says to alastor “I can’t believe how you can do exactly what you told me you would do!” (standing by and watching everyone fail at redemption) almost like she wasn’t paying attention to him at all.

“Why would vaggie hide that she was an exterminator” -> Rosie asks “how did that make you feel?” “It made me mad and doubt if she loves me” like I get it, it was a betrayal, but IS she stupid

Ready For This is charlie manipulating a town of ppl to be death fodder. Her pitch includes “on the way to the hotel the scenery is nice and you can make friends :3” and “have you ever wanted to die for a cause? Notably I myself am spared from being killed but uh that’s your problem.” Alastor pipes in that you can eat the angels and that’s what actually moves the crowd, because he understands them.

Her perspective on violence and where she chooses to draw the line is really confusing. Why does she care about sinners being violent to each other if they’ll just respawn? She stops alastor from beating up sir pentious at an arbitrary point, but is fine with him eating and presumably killing the gangsters who come after mimzy. Why is she so apologetic to the angels actively killing sinners but was distraught over vaggie having partaken? Why was she opposed to the CANNIBALS being eager to eat the angels and saying “idk, they seem kinda murder-y” WHAT. What? I’m struggling to even begin to describe how ignorant that is during a WAR. What did she think was going to happen, that she wouldn’t have to fight anyone herself? Why did she stop her dad from killing Adam but doesn’t react strongly to Niffty finishing the job? If it mattered so much to her, the lack of reaction seems strange to me.

Isn’t it just so poetic that her weapon in the war is a shield that she uses exclusively on herself, which she hardly even needs due to her contractual immunity?

Why doesn’t she think to use her powers to build and maintain the hotel? That doesn’t require any violence or domineering. Yet when lucifer comes over it’s run-down and falling apart. Or ask lucifer to help her build it? She was concerned that asking for the meeting with heaven was such a big ask—why not start with this small thing? Father-daughter bonding.

Why does the show end w lucifer + the sinners congratulating her, and in particular, rebuilding the hotel? Hell doesn’t know that sir pentious got redeemed, so from their pov charlie’s idea didn’t work at all.

Can you tell that I’m writing this while I’m rewatching the show?

Aaand that’s that. Her char has always come off to me as somewhat condescending/fake, but I keep finding more and more things to dislike about the way she’s been written. Unfortunate. Honestly tho I might enjoy watching her more if I read her through this lens. You could probably write a similar post for most/all other chars in the show, limited only by the amount of screentime they get lmao

[locustonlioden-blog]

Charlie's ideal man according to Vivzie's lil animation is the Phantom of the Opera! How does Charlie describe her ideal man to Vaggie?

1) Dark and mysterious

2) Can sing

3) Can play the organ

And...

They have the same silly and childlike sense of humour.

These two have an adorable connection. Two of the best things you could find in a partner is someone you trust, and someone who makes you laugh. What Charlie and Alastor have goes beyond modern romance.

"Friendship is the foundation of any lasting relationship."

[locustonlioden-blog]

I wonder if the reason Lucifer called Charlie out of the blue and asked her to meet with Adam about the exterminations in his place was because Lilith called him up and told him to. Would make a lot of sense.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin hotel theory #hazbin hotel lilith #hazbin hotel theories

[locustonlioden-blog]

Hazbin Hotel Episode Rewrites

Episode 1 (will be doing all of them)

Take out the “precious daughter” line. This makes no sense seeing how Lilith ditched the family and Lucifer is supposed to be super distant. We get 0 evidence these were involved, doting parents that put a bunch of effort into raising Charlie. Perhaps change it to “And now, its up to their precious daughter” meaning Charlie has taken it upon herself to mend things, instead of making it sound like she’s been coached all along for her role.

Adam and Lute are put off to find out its Charlie meeting with them, not Lucifer as usual. The meeting was arranged because of the very important matter of an exterminator angel being killed for the first time ever, and an important discussion was needed. Adam is much less a 1 dimensional comic relief dude bro.

“So, are you taking over extermination arrangements for now on?”

“Uh, no...actually, it was just kind of out of the blue that he told me about the meeting and asked me to come-”

(seriously, Lucifer supposedly didn’t know about the hotel, or at least he pretended not to, lets just assume he does but didn’t let on to Charlie that he’s watching her)

“Did he tell you why?”

“Ah, no-but, it was really convenient because you see, I have an idea that would actually END the need for exterminations-”

At this point Adam is seriously put off. They just found out demons can kill angels-this has to be a distressing revelation. Now of all times, the guy they have a serious deal with chooses to send someone who wants to talk about ENDING the exterminations? This would almost feel like a threat. So now they want out of the deal? No way! He would feel a need to reassert dominance and get things back under control. Who do these demons think they are? Cue their aggressive mocking and song, followed by throwing Charlie out as they do in the actual episode. He doesn’t even bother to explain why they are moving the extermination up. He’s not going to talk to Charlie. She has not established any sort of repertoire with him that makes him feel as though she is worth having an actual discussion with about a serious matter.

Commercial subplot: Alastor offers a deal to Vaggie in order to help make a successful commercial for Charlie.

“You’re insane, I’d never make any sort of deal with some shitlord

“Hm, such a pity, Charlie will be so let down to see how you fail to manage her project even a day without her. She has to do everything. Why are you even around? Do you really think the princess of hell needs physical protection from a sinner with a spear?”

*sighs* “You making the video for me isnt going to help that.”

“My dear, it wasnt raw power that bent all of Hells sinners to my will. You seem to know me quite well...(this is where we can reintroduce the Alastor lore Vaggie game to Angel Dust in the pilot, instead of waiting until the Mimzy episode to give anything) ...so you see, I have no problems getting things done, and I would be willing to teach you. Imagine what Charlie could achieve, and how much quicker, if she had a competent partner at her side…”

“I’m not making a deal! And you can have fun entertaining yourself with an empty hotel. Nobodys going to want to come to a place a powerful overlord like you so obviously takes as a joke”

“Well, I WILL make a worthy advertizement for the hotel, but I’m going to do it the RIGHT way, and do it for radio!”

She doesn’t make a deal here, but the seeds have now been sown. Her insecurity and feelings of inadequacy and worthlessness are gnawing. She has little feelings of self worth-would it be so bad to sacrifice herself in a deal with Alastor if it meant assuring Charlie achieves her dream? She is tempted.

Vaggie uses a little cunning here. While Alastor manipulates the inhabitants of the hotel to give fantastic line deliveries using a variety of amusing tactics, Vaggie secretly records with the video camera. At the end of the day, Alastor smugly announces that he has the radio ad all ready. When Charlie returns, Vaggie cuts in and says radio AND television ad! The ad then starts to play and is cut off by the news like in the actual episode. Alastor was initially amused she tried to make a tv ad anyway, but he sees enough to tell that she recorded him making the radio ad. His smile tightens, eyes narrow, and he fades off.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel alastor #hazbin critical #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel rewrite

[locustonlioden-blog]

I can't help but think that changing the original plan to have Angel Dust and Vaggie being a couple was a huge mistake. Those two would have had so much chemistry. Instead of having vaggie awkwardly trying to protect the princess of hell who could level the whole city if she had a mind to, she could slowly grow from being disgusted and antagonized by Angel to someone who slowly grows attached to him and finds a role as his protector. It could be her development as an angel who came from a place where sinners are viewed as irredeemable trash-she could have witnessed firsthand the things that shape and drive him, and how he yearns to be more than a "loser". imagine if she had sung loser baby with him-how different the lyrics might be and how uplifting? What a loser she must have felt like to be cast from the only place she knew, failing as an exterminator angel. She comes from a place where she wants for nothing, to the streets of Hell where she has and is nothing. Angel Dust, coming from a mob family, perhaps lived well at one time like she did, but eventually bad choices were made that led him to a gradual decline that now seems irreversible. lets say Charlie still took Vaggie in, but she is depressed and angry, lacking purpose, no longer seeing much point in anything. Then comes Angel, the porn star, the one who makes everything a disgusting sex joke. He is a great example of how foul sinners are is he not? As she grows to know him, she sees that its the guard he puts up. He is also someone who yearns for a place that is genuine and secure. The way Vaggie rips on him becomes less abrasive and dismissive and becomes more teasing as she does that as a love language. She becomes fiercly protective of him, and if you replaced her for Charlie in episode 4 it would make a lot more sense for Angel to want to protect her without making your main character look spineless and incompetent-Vaggie would truly be in danger from Val. Perhaps the arc could complete with Vaggie feeling ready to reenter heaven because she wants to share whats good there with Angel, and hes determined to make it there so he can help her be strong in facing all the things there that make her feel vulnerable and afraid.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel thoughts #vivziepop #hazbin critical #hazbin hotel vaggie #angel dust x vaggie #vaggie #hazbin hotel angel dust #angel dust #vivziepop critical

[locustonlioden-blog]

Every so often, I am reminded of what could have been

From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXL8MgFOWiQ

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin hotel vaggie #vaggie #vivziepop critical #vivziepop #spidermoth #hazbin hotel angel dust #angel dust #angel dust x vaggie

[locustonlioden-blog]

Vivziepop stated in a Q and A that the purpose of Charlie’s fight with Katie in the pilot was to show the audience that Charlie isn’t unambiguously pure despite how self-righteous she appears to be. She is still capable of being pushed over the line and releasing all her outrage like anyone else:

“I did see some people making comments about how, even though she is this great character, she still throws down with Katie and also has a few moments where she curses. That was something that I did want to at least allude to, because while she is a very genuine character in her goals and attitude, she was also raised here in hell so she's not 100% pure. She knows pretty well what curses are and how to protect herself. She's got like a scrappy side when she has to and I wanted to kind of allude to that with that. That's why we had her fight Katie, because while Vaggie is really protective of her, she still can make mistakes in her own way and kind of snap and get into that.”

Why did this change. I'm so sad

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel thoughts #charlie morningstar #vivziepop #vivziepop critical #hazbin critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel critique

[locustonlioden-blog]

These are way funnier than they have any right to be

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel video #youtube video #hazbin hotel angel dust #hazbin hotel alastor #hazbin hotel charlie #angel dust #Youtube

[locustonlioden-blog]

Lucifer: Wow what a day! I sure hope I have some nice dreams tonight.

The dreams:

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel alastor #charlie morningstar #vivziepop #hazbin hotel lucifer #lucifer morningstar #charlastor #alastor x charlie

[locustonlioden-blog]

I wonder if the way Lute speaks to Lilith in the last scene of episode 8 is a red herring in that she makes it seem like Lilith WANTS to be in Heaven. What if she doesnt, but Lute doesnt know that. What if the agreement was she has to stay in Heaven to prevent her from leading the resistance in Hell. What if its punishment? She sends Alastor over to help Charlie end the exterminations, knowing that will free her from her deal. That may be why he was so intent on killing Adam specifically. If thats the case shes going to be coming back down ready to take the reins of revolution back up, now with her daughter at her side and a Hell full of demons that know how to kill angels

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin hotel theory #lilith #hazbin hotel lilith #hazbin hotel theories #hazbin hotel spoilers

[locustonlioden-blog]

I think it would be cool if it turned out Lilith was actually a bad guy (and not a bodyswitched Eve or anything like that) and was like Demona from gargoyles 2.0. Demona was badass and their motivations could line up. Demonas whole thing was hating humans because they killed off all of her people, and she wanted to empower the gargoyles against humanity. It would work with humanity=Heaven there was even a storyline where she tried to reconnect with her daughter Angela and turn her against her ex Goliath (Angelas father)

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel theory #vivziepop #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel lilith #lilith #disney gargoyles #demona gargoyles

[locustonlioden-blog]

Rewrite of the deal scene in episode 7: Alastor: I tell you what you need to know, in exchange for a favor where you hurt no one...

Charlie: Why not just tell me? If the hotel is destroyed, your entertainment is gone

Alastor: I think I'd be just fine in the entertainment department seeing this place demolished by Heaven. This hill would be the ideal place for a new radio tower.

Charlie: So I guess all the faithful as a nun, here from day one, like a daughter to me stuff was hot garbage. You're all hot air. *gets out phone to call Lucifer* "Hey, Dad. Well, you know that guy at my hotel who looks like a bellhop..."

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin hotel alastor #hazbin critical #charlie morningstar #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel criticism #alastor #radio demon #hazbin hotel lucifer #lucifer morningstar #hazbin hotel critical

[locustonlioden-blog]

If Charlie had called Alastor out on forcing her to make a deal for the info needed to save the hotel, he would have had to admit something along the lines of seeing her hotel and friends destroyed would be peak entertainment to him, and that would have destroyed his whole daddy/mentor/protector façade on the spot and we can't have that. Viv needs to make up her mind on what Alastor is or isn't because the way its being done now is just making things unbelievably stupid and sacrificing the principle makeups of the main characters for the worst. Its lazy and even being on a crunch with episode numbers doesn't excuse it. The characters aren't working off each other and developing along the way, they are just flowing along mindlessly, checking off the boxes needed to get to an endgame.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin critical #charlie morningstar #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel alastor #alastor #hazbin critique #hazbin hotel critical

[locustonlioden-blog]

Charlie was my favorite character after the pilot but after season 1 I think I'm going to get pleasure from Alastor betraying her

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel charlie #hazbin hotel alastor #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin critical #alastor #vivziepop #charlie morningstar #hazbin hotel criticism #vivziepop critical

[locustonlioden-blog]

Does anyone have the link to the original leak where it gave the eve is lilith info and all the other stuff? I should have saved it instead of bookmarking and now I cant find it anywhere

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel leaks #vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel thoughts

[locustonlioden-blog]

New theory, when Eve died she still loved Adam and he loved her. She ended up going to Hell, much to both of their dismays. Lilith feels bad and responsible for this, which causes her to make a deal with Eve and that ends up backfiring on her where Eve takes over her identity and sets it up so she can go to Heaven (as Lilith). Eve is vengeful and wants to make destroying Lucifer, Eve, and Charlie a part of her revenge (along with corrupting Heaven) Prior to the exterminations, there were no exterminator angels. She had to approach Adam specifically to propose this deal, and then Adam is the one who went to Sera about it. This was a planned thing between Eve as Lilith and Adam, plotting a way to be together again and get revenge on The Morningstars.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel theory #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin hotel lilith #lilith #hazbin hotel eve

[locustonlioden-blog]

I'm scared for Lucifer in season 2 because for anyone in Hell to be a threat he needs to be gone

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel thoughts #hazbin hotel lucifer