#I couldnt parse out what I did to the first image | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

comicteaparty · 4 years

Text

January 25th-January 31st, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from January 25th, 2020 to January 31st, 2020. The chat focused on the following question:

When dealing with criticism, how do you personally decide what is and isn’t legitimate criticism for your story?

Deo101 [Millennium]

For me, the only criticism i take from any critique (even professors) are the ones that I feel push me closer to my goals as an artist. I also only consider critique that comes with my consent and from a place of trying to help me grow. This second bit (trying to help) is something I can't really explain how to tell, you just kind of start to learn over time.

malverav

My philosophy regarding criticism is twofold: I don't take crit from people that I wouldn't take advice from, and I don't take unsolicited crit. I tend to seek out crit from people I know, respect, and trust who also get what I'm doing with my work and get what I'm aiming for. That, and after a certain level, crit is a matter of taste. Saying "this anatomy is squirrelly" or "push your contrast in values" is very useful and somewhat objective, but something like "you should shade like this, not like that" or "use a different colour" is simply a matter of taste in my opinion. It's why I don't take crit from everyone as everyone's tastes are different. I don't take crit from, say, @xX_roxas_fan_69_Xx saying 'your story sucks' with a three paragraph rundown of why. Random commenters? I don't listen to them if they're not paying my bills. Besides, a lot of those randos seem to enjoy tearing someone down and looking like the smartest person in the room, rather than doing something useful. It really speak to entitlement that someone thinks they can swan in and offer an artist their great and wise critique - who made you the boss of art, @xX_roxas_fan_69_Xx? There's a certain danger in listening to too much crit and advice, and after a certain point you just have to pay attention to your own instincts.

Tuyetnhi

Rip I usually don't take crit from folks on the internet or irl if I don't ask for it. Most of the time I often check with my peers to give advice because I know they'll help me push forward in my work. Though I'm thankful that I had advice from some industry folks but dang, that kind of stuff is uncommon.

I do have comments that really doesn't address the story at all and some superficial comparisons. Those I don't respond.(edited)

keii4ii

Everyone's brought up excellent points, many of which I personally employ as well. Here's one I haven't seen yet: If a criticism is extremely negative, to a point where "if this is correct, then my entire comic is garbage and I should start over" is the only logical conclusion, then I'm not going to consider it. Because yeah, I'm not going to start over. Doesn't matter how genuine their intentions at that point. Either they're right and I have an irredeemable pile of garbage -- which I'm not willing to throw out, so rip. Or they're "wrong" (as in, they got that negative because they are 10000% not my target audience) in which case, it'd be pointless trying to please them.

To clarify, "extremely negative" doesn't have to be a literal "your comic sucks at everything." Maybe they'll have some positive things to say, but with regards to my most important goals with the story, they'll have nothing but total negatives to say. e.g. "None of your jokes are even remotely funny, but hey, nice art" for a comedy comic.

DaemonDan (The Demon Archives)

I like to think I'm fairly opened minded with regards to most crit, as long as it feels well intentioned, and as long as I can see where they're coming from.

That doesn't mean I'm necessarily going to change anything on that given page (too expensive for me since I have to pay my artist for everything), but it's something to consider going forward

Especially if it is a concern/question about plot or something that I haven't explained well yet and didn't have planned to explain/show.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I can’t put into words exactly how I ‘tell’ if it’s legit or not. If it’s just ripping my work apart and delivered in an aggressive tone, I know that it’s ill-intended and not to pay it any mind. If it’s also from a serial nitpicker, I usually disregard it as well. If it’s polite and well thought out, I’m more likely to pay attention. Even then, I’m usually able to tell if it’s good, applicable advice or well-meaning, but subjective opinions that simply don’t apply. I’m usually pretty aware of the flaws in my work and can hold it at arms length to see if a crit really does have a good point. If I think it will genuinely help me improve, I’ll start incorporating the advice into my work. Because if a critique helps me get better at what I’m already trying to do, then I’m all ears. I’m always open to con crit, and I think carefully about what was pointed out, but I also take it with a grain of salt. Probably the biggest thing I learnt as an art student wasn’t about making art, but how to parse critique I received.(edited)

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

There's really only two types of criticism I completely disregard - 1) Something that shows the critiquer's vision of the comic is completely different from my own (e.g. "I liked the bad drawings better, you should have stuck with that"). 2) Some variation of "stop making the comic" (e.g. "you should stop posting art until you improve more") (both of which are real criticisms I've gotten. the latter one surprisingly recently.) Also, sometimes a criticism is... difficult to understand? Like I'll try to take "the dialogue doesn't pull me into the next page" into consideration, but... it's hard to nail down exactly what that means, y'know? Fortunately I haven't really gotten any bad faith criticism or un-asked for criticism, so, that's nice.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Luckily I haven't received too much critique/criticism on my comic work, and (so far!) certainly nothing harsh or insulting. In all honesty, I could use a bit more critique, and should probably actively seek it out, so I could keep learning and improving! As such, I've taken all the criticisms into account to varying degrees. If I can't easily go back and fix something, I can always keep that note in mind for future pages. I'm usually most concerned about clarity of plot/progression - aesthetic choices are a matter of preference, but if a reader just plain can't tell what's happening, that's my biggest concern. A comic can be many things, but it should at least be legible, both in words and in images. I take notes on legibility/clarity very seriously.(edited)

varethane

I liked deo's comment at the top about considering crit if it gets you closer to your goals... for me, that's often the most important aspect. Feedback from someone who understands what I'm trying to do is really valuable, because it can help me pin down things that I was already kind of aware weren't working but couldnt put into words. When it comes to unsolicited crit, honestly the most useful ones I've gotten were from readers who didnt even realize they were making a crit. When I start to see comments that appear to be misunderstanding what i intended to put into a page, then I know I need to make some changes.

AntiBunny

In a world of very quiet readers I've had to seek out criticism. Much of what I've gotten is pretty legitimate as a result. I find that legitimate criticism usually can back up its argument. You'll have examples of what's wrong, point out counterexamples, of have suggestions to how to make it better.

Illegitimate criticism is usually cases of personal insults or just saying "it's bad." However there are also cases of people attempting to give legitimate criticism, but missing the point. Usually those who didn't do their homework.

For instance in AntiBunny http://antibunny.net/ one of the biggest failings I've seen at giving legitimate criticism was "I didn't finish it, but it seems incomplete." That's a good example of someone not doing the reading necessary to back up their comment.

And lastly those who just don't realize that the subject matter isn't for them, and confuse that with a judgment of quality such as "I don't like black and white comics," and "I don't like anthropomorphic animal comics."

More legitimate arguments I've gotten, that actually did help me improve were comments on the old site design, which was really stuck in my rather late 90's HTML coding skills, so I took the time to learn a bit of CSS, and improved upon it. Others were about the early art style, which I've grown and evolved from since then. And of course about the text being hard to read, so I moved away from hand written text, and tried several fonts before settling on a free and open font. Jr Hand if anyone is interested.

In short, legitimate criticism helps you improve, illegitimate is either an attack, or just misses the point.

kayotics

I tend to seek out crit from people who I trust, first and foremost. Usually before I even start the work. Unsolicited critique, I think about it for a few days and then decide whether it’s appropriate or not. I do this because I’ve gotten critique before that HAS hurt me enough for me to stop a project. Other people’s opinions of me affects me a lot, and I have to mull on their words to decide whether or not they’re being honest or if they’re saying something to me in bad faith. Sometimes it’s hard to separate what’s legitimate criticism and what’s just entirely incorrect, so that’s why I take a few days to mull on it before acting on it.

keii4ii

Yeah, sometimes even a good faith critique can just... miss the point entirely, and it can demoralize me in a unique way. 'They're genuinely trying to be helpful, so they have to be right..........' kinda thing -- which is not always the case, I've had to remind myself.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Another thing about critique, is if it is truly in good faith and trying to help you grow... They won't mind if you don't take it.

kzuich

I've always said thanks no matter the feedback...but I've definitely gotten crappy critique that wasn't helpful before. One of the worst I've ever received when I was soliciting feedback was from someone who couldn't pinpoint what they didn't like about my comic, but said it was "wasted potential" and needed to be more serious. (Wut.) They then tried to tell me that they'd be willing to help me if I'd invite them on as a writer/editor, and now I'm thinking that person didn't even read my comic and was just trying to neg me into giving them a spot on my site so they'd have a project with their name attached to it or something xD(edited)

(For the record...my comic is a very lighthearted comedy. Like...way to miss the point! xD)

Cherryzombs

Oof. -_- Reminds me of an art teacher once putting "Not Creative Enough" on one of my works. I dunno what to do with that...

kzuich

Lol art teachers like that always got under my skin.

keii4ii

Yeah, critics missing the point is a big part of why I've become extremely selective about who to ask crits from!

kzuich

I don't really solicit feedback much anymore.

Not because I don't want critique

It's just...There are not a lot of people who actually know -how- to critique

keii4ii

Sometimes you can glean some good things from a critique that just missed the point -- like, sometimes it can help you see why they missed it and how you can maybe prevent that. But.... I don't have the spoons for that kinda gleaning anymore.

kzuich

I don't mind people reviewing my comic, because, well, hey exposure! But if I ask for feedback, I'm asking people who make comics. Because the best critique I've ever gotten was over on the SF discord. A user actually gave critique that was extremely helpful and on-point.

keii4ii

Even fellow comickers can be unhelpful, too. Every person whom I've asked for critique was making a comic, but the helpfulness has varied a lot.

kzuich

Yeah that's true

keii4ii

"I hate, hate, HATE your MC, so you should kill him off or otherwise get rid of him forever" was told to me by a fellow comic creator.... and I was already doing like, chapter 7, so yeah, removing the MC wasn't really an option X'D

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

YIKES WHAT

kzuich

You could always do a 180 and really trip out your readers

very ~experimental~

The critic who hated my comic would've loved that

I gotta dig up that critique because it was really funny. My husband and I will make jokes about it from time to time lol

keii4ii

XDD

kzuich

Like have I totally turned this on its head? I'm critiquing the critic

Cherryzombs

When someone asks me for feedback I tend to ask what specifically they want notes on.

Otherwise I don't really offer it. >.>

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I usually ask if they want critique first and then do the compliment sandwich if they say yes.

And try to really emphasise the things I like and feel are working.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

@Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios) "compliment sandwich" I love that.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I didn’t come up with it, but thank you! XD

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

In regards to how I myself determine what critiques are worth my consideration... I like what @Deo101 [Millennium] and @varethane spoke about with the idea of our personal vision for our work. Whether or not someone gets what I'm trying to accomplish from my work or not plays a huge role in whether I'll take their critique seriously. An example of this is in my comic Whispers of the Past, there was a scene where a character had a flashback, and to show that it was a flashback, I made the background behind the panels black instead of white. A commenter told me I should make the background behind all the panels black because it adds more contrast. By itself, the critique wasn't that harmful or incorrect, but in the context of "this story is gonna have a bunch of flashbacks and I need a way to differentiate them from present time," it definitely was a critique that wasn't really helpful to me. The commenter clearly didn't understand that it was a flashback. Another type of critique I don't pay attention to are critiques where the critic is pointing out something that I can't really change. Or are being unintentionally rude, "It's too short." "I can't remember what happened in the past updates because of the infrequent postings." "I would rather you wait until you have X pages before posting." Um... I can't just simply draw FASTER. I'm not a GOD. And finally, critiques that have to do with taste and not quality. I had an art professor whose common critiques of my work included, "This is too illustrational," and "The colors are too saturated." To which my responses were: https://media.tenor.com/images/7dfa6d3d76a277b8c204945ae8fd3161/tenor.gif(edited)

renieplayerone

for me, I tend to ignore a lot of random critique, or at the very least put it aside and ask a friend later. What I do trust for critique is when the critique comes from other comic writers and artists who I know, and I seek out the critique on my own. I also tend to take more to critique when it's constructive or from a good-faith helpful place, like "hey this page could use some more clarity to get your point across" rather than "whut? Idk what this is". I also am in some writer groups where we do crit nights, which are very structured and from a "I want to see you succeed, lets help make that happen" standpoint, so Im much more likely to listen to them than a rando on the internet saying "draw it, but gud"

carcarchu

@keii4ii i once read a webcomic where the author killed the main love interest after 100 chapters and replaced him with a clone xD i really respect the author's boldness there

kzuich

lol what a legend

DanitheCarutor

Usually I try to put any criticism for anyone into consideration, sometimes a stranger might have more knowledge of what I'm trying to do than I do, and I have gotten really good advice for randos popping in with critique and suggestions. Although, due to my story being super tight, I usually end up weeding out whatever doesn't apply to what I'm currently trying to accomplish with it. This sucks because that's a lot of story critique, and it makes me look like some child who can't handle negative feedback. There has been comments that I should make more happy scenes or get rid of some heavy stuff, make the comic more like Breaking Bad (Never seen this show. ) because it's too boring, having romantic scenes to fit the title, make my MC Julian less "weird" and more likable. I can change small things, but big stuff that has an affect on the main plot would make me have to rework the entire story... which then it wouldn't really be TGtaHR. I can do some tweaking to the main stuff, but the person giving the critique would have to know the whole story, and what I'm trying to accomplish. At least in my extremely anal opinion.

Art wise I'm more open, there have been really good suggestions about me using more contrast and values to draw the audience's eyes to what I want them to see, I've been told to simplify my backgrounds or use less bold colors which is a problem for me since I'm REALLY into drawing detail, or that I need to make my speechbubbles more readable. These are valid critiques because these things do hinder the comic, and I have been trying to work on improving, although admittedly I do have a lot of trouble changing up my coloring and details. There have been a few interesting ones that I've kinda ignored since they don't really help? A couple people have said I should switch to drawing digitally because it looks more professional/polished, I've been told to stop drawing backgrounds entirely, someone said I should draw in a more aesthetically appealing style, and another one was that I drew too many dynamic angles. There is a critique I've gotten a few times in particular that I've kinda ignored, but I'm not sure if I should apply, which is that my shading is weird. As in my style of complementary shading looks bad, and while I really like that type of shading I'm not sure if I'm applying it correctly. The people who usually say this don't ever elaborate on what they mean, or how I can do better... except one person who said I should use a darker version of the same color or black for shading, which is kinda gross looking to me.

But yeah, I generally try really hard to take in criticism, but if I can't make it work for what I'm currently trying to do I move on.

varethane

Too...... many?? dynamic angles.....??

Tuyetnhi

wut omg there can't be too many dynamic angles

varethane

Yeah, uh, pretty sure you can disregard that one lmao

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Lol, I WISH I had that problem

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, that one totally caught me off guard, I've never heard of drawing too many angles. Usually the criticism is that you're not drawing enough. I told them I was practicing my perspective, which I am, but... yeah, didn't know what to say to that.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

God, what I wouldn't give to have more angles I guess too much detail can be an overload, but still, better too many than too few

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Actually, one of the most legitimate critiques I ever got was from a professional editor at a convention where he was doing portfolio reviews. And you know what he said? That I should have more interesting camera angles.

SAWHAND

Lol! I do think most people have to force themselves to think about the camera angles. I certainly do at least! I think the key to good critique is to understand that it's not really about liking or not liking something. It's not about preference at all. It's about letting the artist know what the audience is likely seeing or experiencing so that they know whether their intentions are coming across. And if you're getting that advice from other artists usually they can tell you why something feels a certain way. For example, a reader might say, "it seems really hectic", but an experienced artist might be able to say "I think having a lot of different camera angles so quickly is making the scene feel very hectic." (just using camera angles as an example, since it came up) And then as the artist, you can say oh great, that's exactly what I was going for, or you can think about changing it. But critique is just about helping an artist refine their vision, letting them know if the tools/techniques they're using are matching up well with their intentions.

RebelVampire

Yeah. Somewhat to the above, I could see a critic saying "too many dynamic angles" if they meant that there wasn't a good visual flow and it was hard to follow in that regard

It's always good to remember a lot of the people who have time to give critiques for a whole webcomic are actually not professional artists. So they can't always accurately describe in that realm what theyre seeing.(edited)

mariah (rainy day dreams)

This conversation reminded me of a Tumblr tutorial from m forever ago by one of the Adventure Time folks. It talks about a lot of things, but specifically I could see someone thinking the camera is "too dynamic" if a comic artist is breaking the 180° rule a lot in their panels or not following screen direction. Though screen direction is probably a little more forgiving in a non-animated format. Anyway, I'll put the link for that tutorial in #art_resources

Mei

Critique is a tough one. Because for the most part I accept critique from close friends that I trust and from my professors. Sometimes though, I personally feel like my art will be going one direction and will waylay the critique for another project. If that makes any sense. I guess what I mean is that sometimes you've already done so much on one piece or comic and when someone gives you critique it's like "okay thank you, I hear you, and I will implement it in the next thing I do, not this page that I am currently doing." I also tend to ask my friends if they don't mind critique? For things that are WIPs and shared. My friend once said "I mean what do you say to that... Can you even say no?" And I was like, "Yes you can completely say no and I wouldn't give critique it's as simple as that", but I guess when you're closer friends,it's less apprehension maybe. That being said, I haven't really run into the unsolicited critique category quite yet. I mean, I feel as if I'll run into that eventually, I've just been lucky enough not to. Plus, a lot of critique I get is actually about things I'm already aware that I need to improve on? I got some pretty fair critique from several people on several projects that I should work on backgrounds, layouts, and location. Which I know is a weakness I have, and honestly I avoid it a lot because I'm really scared of it? And I know that I have to just... work on it and do more visual studies if I ever want to improve. It's just a very daunting task, especially since I'm studying as a character animator, so the backgrounds are almost always secondary (I kept handing off backgrounds to friends to help do rip) And with what was said above about 'too many dynamic angles', I can see why that might be a critique for action sequences. Something like Boku Aca actually suffers visually from that! It's so dynamic that pages can end up looking clunky? I guess?!

DanitheCarutor

Urm to cover my ass, I do agree and see how too many dynamic angles can be a hindrance, but for out of the norm stuff like that I unfortunately need to be shown an example or elaboration on why that isn't working for me. I don't remember how far back the critique was, maybe around chapter 2 or 3. They never pointed anything out, but I believe they were responding to pages like these. Edit: DON'T actually read the contents of these pages, a couple of them might have some heavy stuff that could make you uncomfortable.(edited)

(I do agree that the circular perspective page is awful, it was my first attempt and I didn't have a drawing table at the time to make a larger circle. I might redraw that page at some point.) But it's really hard to know exactly what they mean. Should I do more eye level shots? More talking heads? I'm super thick in the head, and need a little hand-holding, when it comes to understanding critiques like that. I do agree, though. There are so comics that have so much going on that they can be really hard to read.

Mei

I think in terms of dynamism it's just important to keep in mind that if EVERYTHING is dynamic ALL THE TIME, then it ceases to be 'dynamic' and becomes the norm, and it can be as whip-lashy as a movie that uses far too many jump cuts in an action movie. Like you want to be able to follow that continuous string of motion and jumpcuts can disturb that? So similarly in comics it's something people will say to keep in mind

I mean I don't see anything particularly wrong with the angles you're using in the pages you've linked! And at the end of the day, if it works for you then it works? And it's also a personal taste thing i think

some people LOVE comics with tonnes of dynamic panelling and angles. Other people prefer things really grounded in reality and more gentle in terms of the cuts

So I guess to string this back to the critique stuff, it's things you can take note of and be more aware of but doesn't necessarily mean that what you've already made is 'bad' or whatever, because it definitely isn't. I always see Critique as just things that other people notice that you don't, and sometimes they're helpful and sometimes it's like "Okay thanks for pointing that out"

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yeah, those pages look good to me.

I particularly love the lighting in the last page.

Desnik

Oh this is a good creator question. So, for me, legitimate critique is when a person labels specific things in the story and proves that they actually read it, whether they do or don't like it. I might not take that person's suggestions but I do think about how the story's coming across. For instance one of my writing group friends hounded me over explaining each and every little thing in my story...but honestly I'm not going to infodump upfront. But her feedback is terribly important because if she's asking this kind of question about what's going on, she can't possibly be the only person who will be a bit lost(edited)

even though I'm not implementing her suggestion specifically the way she wants it (big simple infodump), at least I'm thinking about what information is clear and what's waiting to be explained later

There's also observing people because that can give me bigger clues than what they say. If they trip over a sentence when reading aloud, then I definitely check it out and see if I can make the prose easier to read. Little stuff like that.

DanitheCarutor

@Mei Sorry, haven't been online much this week. Oh yeah, that is totally understandable, and I have seen how too many odd camera angles or jump cuts can be jarring! I just thought it was an interesting critique since they never elaborated on what they meant, plus even though I've heard of certain angles ruining a scene, I've never actually heard about having too many dynamic angles so it just surprised me. A good chunk of webcomic creators default to more standard angles since perspective can be such a pain in the ass, and takes up extra time, so the feedback I usually see is to have more variety. Sorry if any of this came off like I was complaining! I really wasn't, I just wanted to answer the question with some examples of different types of criticism I've received. Talking about some of the ones that were odd, or I couldn't take for one reason or another. Didn't mean to draw so much attention to myself. xD That is true, though. It might have been personal taste, who knows, we can always improve more.

@Cronaj (Whispers of the Past) Thank you! I was really satisfied with how that page turned out!

Mei

@DanitheCarutor Oh no I never thought you were complaining at all! I was just responding haha sorry if that made you think I was being overly critical or anything. But yeah, I mean some people have different tastes or they point out different things that may or may not be problems. I think having a lot of critique can be a double edges sword anyway. On the one hand, it's great to hear outside opinions. On the other hand, they can give such varying advice that's all based on personal taste that it could not even apply to you. So it's like... take what you can and leave the rest or something?!

RebelVampire

While I normally don't participate in these, I will this week as a fiction writer and as someone who used to do webcomic reviews. For me, when it comes to dealing with criticism and critiques and deciding what's legit is to look for trends - which is the advice I generally give for anybody who doesn't know what to look for. Creativity is not an exact science, and as such, critiquing creative projects is not an exact science. While there are certainly foundations, in the bigger scheme of things, every critique is going to be different and unique. Every critic/reviewer/etc. has their own personal tastes, their own personal goals and aims when giving the criticism, their own personal style for giving a critique, and so on. This is why you can have two reviews that are completely opposite from each other in opinion, because each person is not only influenced by what they think makes a work good, but just their own personal focuses no matter how objective a critic tries to be. But, to me, this is why when you get several people all saying the same thing, that's the time to get concerned and consider changing something. Cause again, every critic is coming from a different place, and if people coming from different places are reaching the same approximate conclusion, they're actually probably on to something. So, I play the patience game, gather multiple critiques, and look for trends before putting stock into any one piece of criticism.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

But what do you do when a bunch of people all say the same thing, but fixing that issue would take a ton of time and effort? A lot of people have said that my font is too small and hard to read. Is it worth it to spend a day just changing a bunch of letters on 70+ pages and saving and resizing them again? Despite all the people telling me it's an issue, I still don't really think it's that bad. I'm used to reading page format comics, and my font size is comparable to other page format comics. I think a big part of why people are complaining is because I'm a page-format comic on webtoons. But also I'm using a custom font which is my own handwriting. Obviously I'm used to reading my own handwriting and find it very legible, but other people aren't and so might find it more difficult to read. Maybe I can't look at the font objectively because of that : /

Kabocha

I think font issues and readability are... A different issue. One thing I noticed as I got older is that the small fonts I used to tend towards got harder and harder to read. So finding a balance between page legibility on the web and print is... Challenging. But it can be done. If you have a small screen with a high resolution (more than a cell phone), might be worth seeing how much you have to zoom in or focus to read it

Granted, I'm not yet 35, but my eyesight hasn't improved...;;!

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I'm not sure about updating the old stuff, but if it's something that's been repeatedly brought up I would definitely increase the size on pages going forward and see if that helps. I can see the value in also updating the old pages if people are dropping off because the type is too small, but also I feel like 70 pages is like right on the board for me of not worth it for the time it would take. The value of your time is a personal decision though.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Even when taking critique, I almost never apply that to old pages. Webcomic readers generally expect a level of improvement, so they can understand if early pages have issues that are fixed later on.

Kabocha

Agreed, though if you have a way to batch process files for export, that might not be bad? It really depends on how much of a barrier to readability it is.

But in the context of critique? Eh, worth knowing for future projects at minimum!

Kabocha

Anyway, to answer the question I suppose... How do I determine what's legitimate and what's not... I guess it depends -- I saw a few people mentioning whether the interests of the critique align with your growth (or I think I saw that; admittedly, I'm not really inclined to scroll up too far right now), or whether or not you trust the person giving the critique. I think those are two good things look at, for sure! I also think it's worth considering whether or not you care. Like, at the end of the day, if it's not a show-stopper or making the work unreadable or unenjoyable, then... Meh? Make a note of it for the future, see if it's something you can incorporate if you solicited the critique. If it's entirely unsolicited... bigger meh.

DanitheCarutor

@Mei Nooo you didn't make me feel that way, I just know it can come off that way to a lot of people and wanted to clarify. Differentiating critique based on personal taste from you doing something objectively bad can be really hard to do sometimes! I usually do what Rebel Vampire said and collect them until I see a trend, but sometimes I wonder if that single critique is someone noticing a flaw no one else does. Although that might be me over-thinking things. @RebelVampire That is a good reminder of how different people are, and how variety there is in how they view things. Man, I wish I knew about your reviews back when you still did them... and I also magically had a decent chunk of my comic finished, I really liked your style. For the most part I try to apply the idea of going off trends. Unfortunately there is one I do tend to ignore since it feels like ends up fitting with my intentions, which are critiques about making my story less sad/uncomfortable/heavy. It probably is a legit flaw, and I might be executing my story poorly for all I know, but I did want to make a comic that could be really sad and/or uncomfortable. Due to that I kind of ignore those critiques... even though I probably shouldn't, it's hard to tell for those ones specifically. But yeah, hoarding critiques like they're playing cards, then finding patterns to see what needs to be improved is a good way to find a quality in your work that might be objectively bad.

keii4ii

@DanitheCarutor I think that's a great point, especially for those of us making very niche stories. Even if you get 99 people telling you they don't like your work because of X, sometimes it is the 100th person that you're writing for, the one who LOVES that (very intentional and pivotal) X in your work.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

ESPECIALLY if those 99 critiques are not aligned with your artistic vision to begin with.

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, the hardest thing about making something niche is a lot of people aren't going to like it no matter how well you pull it off, also getting feedback that works with what you're trying to accomplish is kinda hard. I went into my comic know it wouldn't get a whole lot of people who would understand or enjoy it, so I decided it would be for myself to vent and whoever does like the story can tag along. That seemed like the best plan to keep from getting discouraged. It IS really nice when that 100th person comes along who loves that weird stuff as much as I do.

RebelVampire

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) To add my own two cents to previous replies about fixing old pages, I think this depends first off, what others have said, how you value your own personal time and whether you think its worth the effort. Second, though, I think is to consider what the issue is that needs to be fixed. Some issues are definitely more minor than others, and ppl accept if you fix them later. However, then there's issues like readability, too much front-loading of information, etc. that can be a bit more major because its effecting readers' ability to understand your comic. It's at that point I personally believe that it'd be better to fix earlier pages. Cause the average new reader isn't going to show up to the comic and go "Maybe this will improve with this major issue later." The average new reader is going to give your comic 20 pages at most and then leave if the issues are still there and they can't follow the comic. In other words, always remember readers still have to read the beginning pages in order to get to the improved pages. So the question is, do you think the issue is something that will make readers drop the comic before they even get to that point? Again, though, emphasis, this is a personal decision. There are people who would put in the effort, and people who wouldn't. And both are right because what you do with criticism is ultimately your business.

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #comic tea party #ctp #creator interview #comic creator interview #creator babble

1 note · View note

justselfloathingthings-blog · 5 years

Note

for the mini fic meme - Yuu and Touko 14 :D

“Hey Touko-senpai, what are you reading?”

Touko suddenly jerked back, her arms swinging wildly while trying to hide something behind her back; though, rather comedically Yuu thought, the rapid motions of her legs almost caused her to be knocked off the chair she was sitting in entirely, and leave her sprawled across the floor of the Student Council room.

The two were together well after student council had disbanded for the day, a habit that was becoming rather common for the two of them. Sayaka had said something about things at home she needed to take care of, and overall ended the rather strange stalemate between the three of them, as though Sayaka was engaging in some kind of strange competition with Yuu that only she understood.

Well, obviously, Yuu would be lying if she said that she didn’t understand it at least a little. Just a little, though, of course.

However, what had caught Yuu’s attention was a tan-colored book that Nanami had been breezing through, her fingers rapidly flicking through pages, the setting sun bounding off her jet black hair. Yuu wasn’t going to pretend that it wasn’t a rather dynamic and beautiful image. Objectively speaking.

Regardless, Touko had seemed rather absorbed in the book, which had piqued Yuu’s curiosity since something about the book’s size and coloration was tweaking something in the girl’s memory, but she wasn’t quite she what it was exactly. And she was hardly going to let this mystery go unsolved. Not dissuaded by Touko’s attempts at secrecy, she merely maneuvered herself to the back of Touko’s chair and softly snatched the book out of Touko’s hands, taking a good look at the cover.

“Garden… of Lillies.” Yuu repeated the title softly, trying to figure out why the title rang a bell. And then it clicked. “This was the book you bought at the bookstore, wasn’t it?”

Though Touko was hardly an infrequent customer to Yuu’s family’s shop (especially recently),, she didn’t miss a bit, her back still to Yuu, but the slight quiver in her voice allowing Yuu to imagine how her face was like flushed (adorably) red. “Yes.” She said softly. She then immediately tried to grab the book back, her arms gesticulating wildly, Yuu quickly side-stepped however, glancing back at the cover for a moment, seemingly in thought. “I thought… you didn’t particularly want this in the first place.” She said thoughtfully.

“Well…” Touko’s speech began to rapidly increase in pace, though it was still possible to parse. “I mean, there’s that movie about it coming out about it, right? So I thought maybe… I could go see it, and it would be good to read the book first, to know if the story was any good…”

Yuu didn’t miss a beat. “And by ‘I’ you mean ‘we’ I assume.” She said dryly. Touko stiffened softly, though if she’d seen the soft smile on Yuu’s face, the barb would have almost certainly been taken out of her words. Honestly, it probably wouldn’t be the worst way to spend a free weekend. She then, book in hand, went and returned to her seat facing Touko, and quickly began skimming the book, her eyes flickering over the words. It seemed competently written, all told. And she couldn’t deny her curiosity at this point. “So, what’s it like?”

“Well…” Touko began, her voice picking up in enthusiasm. “You know the basic premise, right? It starts out as your typical “Boy meets girl in a small town” story, but then, roughly a third into the book, she meets a tall beauty…”

Yuu interjects. “She wouldn’t happen to be part of the Student Council, would she?” Though her tone injected enough levity into the reply that Touko merely shook her head, a soft smile on her face. “Just a normal classmate, actually. Anyway, there is some buildup to their relationship, until she eventually has to choose between the boy and the girl she loves. She… chooses the girl, of course.” Touko’s voice nearly falters at the end (for rather obvious reasons, in Yuu’s opinion, but she knows nothing.)

“And you want to go see the movie so you can hold my hand during the romantic bits.” Yuu essentially reiterated, softly shaking her head. “A pervert to the end, Touko-senpai.” Touko had the decently to softly blush, her eyes quickly darting away for a moment, as she made murmured denials. Yuu let out a soft sigh, then continued. “So… how far are you in it?” She asked. Touko’s blush (unfortunately) quickly subsided, and she marched on with her explanation, her voice slowly regaining some of its passion. “Well, I was near the end actually! It’s not a hard read, so I was about to get through it rather quickly. I think this is the climax of the whole work, actually.”

For reasons Yuu herself didn’t quiet understand, she scooted slightly closer to Touko, though the other girl didn’t notice. “And?”

Touko seemed to get slightly fidgety, but softly continued. “Well, the protagonist admits to the girl she loves that she has feelings for her, but… the other girl is skeptical. I’d have to explain a lot of the book to really explain that part.” She quickly added at the end. Yuu simply nodded- it didn’t sound like a terrible read, she might check it out when she had the time. Touko then continued, her voice a little awkward. “And well, the protagonist decides to…” she full stops for a moment, and Yuu feels the need to prompt her on, while again slowly closing the gap between the two to the point that their distance could be measured in inches. Touko finally noticed their close proximity, though she didn’t back away.

“To?” Yuu’s voice was soft now, containing some emotion she couldn’t profess to begin to understand. Touko’s voice was equally soft, if slightly off kilter. “S-So, she kisses her.” She finishes. Rather anti-climatically Yuu thought; she had to admit she missed the (precious) enthusiasm Touko had had at the beginning of her synopsis. Regardless, some sort of foreign impulse caused her to blurt out what she said next. “Do you think… how do you think that I feel about you, Touko-senpai?”

Touko seemed to be caught completely off-balance by the question, and searched for words. “I… we’re… we’re…” she couldn’t seem to find the right words; something Yuu found rather understandable. Their relationship was a constantly moving target that Yuu had found rather hard to pin down for a long time, after all. But she began to close the final gap between the two of them, quickly locking lips with Touko.

It was the first real kiss Yuu had ever really initiated with her… crush, she supposed? Maybe she could just up and admit that at this point. Given the newfound feelings of electric coursing through her as their lips locked and Touko paused for a moment, seemingly frozen in time. It took her a moment to reciprocate, though she rather enthusiastically did so. It was rather odd, Yuu mused, but despite all the rather foreign and strange feelings rushing through her, all that she could really think at the moment was ‘Saeki-senpai is going to be so mad about this when she finds out.’

After a couple minutes (though it felt so so much shorter) the two parted, both quickly gasping for breath. Yuu was the first to speak.

“I guess… there’s a word for this, isn’t there?” She said carefully. There was no question as to what Yuu was referring to.

Touko simply nodded, her smile utterly radiant, brighter than any smile Yuu had seen before. Yuu thought she could get used to seeing it, to be honest.

(Sorry this took so long to get done, hopefully the length makes up for it! I’ll get the other two done.. tomorrow, hopefully. Tonight if I get inspired.)

(Don’t ask me where this fits chronologically, because I had no idea.)

#bloom into you #punk-mahoucore #writing prompts #touko/yuu

32 notes · View notes

swampgallows · 6 years

Text

i just woke up, it’s close to noon here, five hours is good enough i guess. i keep thinking about college and how fucking suicidally depressed i was then and how ive spent half of this year being unemployed and generally just struggling to take care of myself in the most banal and basic ways possible, and how depression really does just delete years from your life. you live through them in a daze, you’re already a ghost, you’re already dead. questing in wrath of the lich king is honestly some of the last shit i remember concretely before going into a two year gray area of passing my classes and nothing else. i remember breaking up with my boyfriend because he chose raiding over me. i dont want to talk about it again. the memory is still painful. still, even still, ten years later. and in late 2008 i was attacked in my dorm room and i was screaming and my roommates thought i was being a big ol slut. they thought any guy that came over was someone i was fucking. when i went to blizzcon in 2008 and my brother stayed in my dorm they thought i was fucking him too until i told them he was my little brother. they tried so fucking hard to suppress my interests and make me “like them”. “there’s more to life than world of warcraft and pokemon” they said as if going to college basketball games and rewatching disney movies has any more enrichment or depth beyond what i was fucking doing. my life is so full of hatred, from myself, from other people, just being fostered in me in general, and it’s only within the last few years that i’ve gotten to heal from it at all, all the time being hurt more and more

i was talking to a friend yesterday who is just 19 and thinking about where i was when i was 19, which of course puts me in 2009 again, the year i dropped out of existence, and i was telling them about how i was essentially raised by the ilk of 4chan and the piece of shit community on wow that, like, since i’m around ~liberal genderqueer~ tumblr-type spaces all the time, genuinely shocks me to remember still exists, of those fucking hypermasculine overcompensating military dudes. and we were talking about how like, nerds in general tend to have shit social skills or anxiety or are Othered in ways that have them reinforce this piece of shit pecking order where the loudest and meanest proclaim themselves the Leader and everyone just follows them because theyre too meek to challenge them or they mistake arrogance for confidence and assume any asshole crowing that loud about how Right they are all the time Must Be Right.

and i thought of my own life, my ex QP, my old friend groups, my abusive ex boyfriend, how i mistook so long their malice as strength, how i was duped by their self-aggrandizement. they had no skills, no talents, no girlfriend (except when i dated them), no women in their lives in general, no real friends they could count on (except, for my abuser, an older man with 3 children and a brand new divorce whose house he muscled and manipulated himself into—”i cant even bear to be in the old master bedroom anymore”—and my abuser promptly MOVED HIMSELF INTO IT) no hobbies, and the one or two hobbies that they had—fishing, video games—they were fucking less-than-passable at. my ex-qp wasn’t good at video games. he would use cheat codes or just play the strongest character and rely on everyone else to pick up his slack. warrior, carry, tank, what have you; all of us his underlings to support him to victory—”I’m doing all of the damage and getting none of the kills”—he would whine, oblivious to the concept of teamwork and seeking credit within the only realm he had a semblance of succeeding in.

anyway so when i first joined tumblr i swung the pendulum in the other direction because i absolutely had to, it was for my survival to become a virulent feminazi as they put it, and i was obnoxious about it, and i reposted rape statistics all the time and challenged people all the time because i had to. i had to let it overtake me in order to purge all of the 10+ years of toxic social conditioning that places like 4chan and their little infestations in WoW and all of my abusive partners instilled in me. i had to be vocal about rape this and sexual assault that because i spent the better part of my adolescence trying to laugh away the fact that i was raped as a child, trying to make jokes about my “delicious flat chest” and pedobear and “surprise buttsecks/it’s not rape if you yell surprise” and “delicious loli”; some of the images i had willingly saved on my ancient hard drive are absolutely harrowing to go through now as an adult knowing my mushy impressionable 14 year old traumatized mind was trying to cope with and gloss over what had happened to me and with the future i was facing as a budding adolescent in this kind of environment. men didnt want to be responsible for what happened to me or with what would happen to me, it made them uncomfortable for me to talk about it, so i was told to laugh it away, that nobody cares that i was raped, that i was stronger if i could just laugh about it, that no topics were beyond reproach or off limits, and that if i wasnt desensitized to my own suffering then i was weak, i was a sheep, i was a burden, i was letting my emotions get the better of me.

obviously, tumblr as a whole DIRECTLY acts in opposition of this: everything is rooted in our traumas, which we are expected to lay bare for all to be taken seriously: 4chan demanded that we invalidate the trauma by making a joke of it and allowing the masses to pick it apart for their own entertainment, to become part of the anonymous “legion” by offering up our individuality to be consumed by the group (as a currency of “lulz”, basically); tumblr, reflexively, demands we validate the trauma by making it an open and public integral asset to our identity, to have easily digestible and categorized characteristics so as to fit into the tumblr hierarchy of needs, their own misinterpreted facsimile and microcosm of existing systematic oppression, and obtain a sort of fixed currency of privilege or “woke points” dependent on identity politics. so i definitely needed to purge my previous conditioning with this reclamation of my identity as a survivor, etc, and had about 7 years of misplaced anger and fury condensed into a good two or so years instead, and even now im still parsing details.

it wasnt until i was 22 that i had even heard the term asexuality and it wasnt until i was 25 that i realized i was bi (or “could be” bi), even though i had already been in love with and sexually active with women years prior lmao. i had been told by every possible source that having a dick inside me would change my life and change my outlook and change me into a better person or whatever the fuck, that i would “understand” and “grow up” and “become a woman” or whatever and guess what it did fucking NOTHING, just like every teen drama romance or whatever tries to stress over and over, sex is not a magical lifechanging event that hands you a million dollars and a healthy brain. it changes your life in some ways and it’s definitely not something to be taken lightly but in no way is it a cure for anything.

i dont know where i’m going with this, im just fucking pissed off about my life, im pissed off that healing takes so long and that i had to do any of it in the first place. im so pissed about all of my time wasted with this fucking piece of shit body and fucking piece of shit brain and i wish i could just go back to work and be a functional human being but im like just a short leap away from doing any of that. i have to get in touch w my previous HMO once the new year starts now that im confirmed for medi-cal, and i should have done it months ago, but i have to just accept that this whole time ive been not USELESS but just utterly CONSUMED by self-preservation, that it is taking most of my effort to want to be alive and stay on this planet any longer. especially now with my teeth bugging me so bad because i cant fucking take care of myself so im grinding my teeth and clenching my jaw and i guess eating improperly or what have you idont fucking know. im going to buy a waterpik even though it’s fifty dollars and i have not made ANY MONEY in the last 6 months or done ANY of what i wanted to do and i still have a number of commissions needling at me that i genuinely like cant fucking even look at withotu fucking hitting myself and crying, and im seriously not trying to make fucking excuses, i am so fucking ashamed and consumed by self-hatred about this, this has been a problem for me SINCE COLLEGE where i was an ART MAJOR that i had to fucking beat the shit out of myself to try to draw anything “seriously”, and i do mean literally beating myself, bludgeoning myself with my morris sticks and smacking myself in the face/head and clawing at my skin, and i fucking hate it

i just know i need like SO MUCH recovery or healing or whatever the fuck, i feel so long overdue for very basic shit, and part of me feels like a withering plant, like pouring water over dry leaves thinking it’s just going to saturate itself and be instantly rejuvenated. im losing leaves in the process, as it were, and getting no “water” all this time. i feel like i’m in drought mode. these last six months are me basically conserving all i have, toeing away from the edge of the cliff because iw as so ready yall i was so fucking ready, i was ready to jump off, i spent whole lunch hours just ready to fucking leap, staring down the void, staring at the winding road that went up the mountain, staring at the deer who stared back at me, hiding my face from Adults who treated me like a wind-up doll, i just couldnt take it, ic ouldnt be somewhere that sterile, i couldnt be spending so much of my life getting so little back, i coudlnt see my friends ever, i couldnt breathe, but in general my brain is sick and i need to heal from all of these things, i need to figure out how i can cope with being alive because i am going to be alive at least a little longer and i need to not fear and crave death simultaneously. i do not want to die, I DO NOT want to die, but i cannot live in a constant state of recuperating. my life has just felt like the Shutting Down... screen for the last 2 years.

NEED a new dentist NEED my teeth fixed PLEASE GOD open the stem cell dentin treatment to clinics worldwide GOD fix my TEETH PLEASE let me REGROW my TEETH NEED therapy NEED to fix my brain NEED to figure out how i can cope with being unable to support myself in this shit fucking economy NEED TO RECOVER NEED TO GET BETTER PLEASE IM FUCKING SUFFERING

#blathering

8 notes · View notes