#I feel like the duffers have been writing Bylers endgame

[allislove111]

I swear, stuff like this happens to me a lot.. call it synchronicity or something idk 🤷‍♀️ I flipped my calendar page to the new month, September, and this is what it says:

I automatically think: Will. 😭😭❤️

For anyone who feels like it’s not okay to be different.. I see you, I hear you, and you’re loved. I’m right here with you being brave❤️🏳️‍🌈❤️

#this is for all the Bylers out there #I have a feeling Byler will be CANON #this happens a lot #i love it ngl #byler byler byler #byler #byler is still endgame #byler will be endgame #has always been endgame #the vibes are strong with this #I feel like the duffers have been writing Bylers endgame #but it’s not a delusion or an illusion #i have fallen into the byler delusions #delulu #will is who mike is in love with #mike wheeler i know what you are #byler is real

[0daylighthours0]

(part 2) A Deep Dive into Milkvan and Byler's Development: If Milkvan's Destined Endgame, Why's it Written Like This???

The decision to confirm Will to be in love with MIKE is wild, and I'll tell you why.

When you add a third party to a t.v show relationship, if the first relationship isn't perfect, people gunna start rooting for the third party. Take Stancy for instance.

Throughout s2, we got the vibes that Jonathan held feelings for Nancy. This was clear. But Nancy was still with Steve. This means, in order for us not to sympathize more for Jonathan, Nancy and Steve gotta be ✧ tight ✧. I mean, their issues must be kept at a low, and at the end of the day it's gotta be clearer to us that Nancy does in fact love Steve. Welp, that wasn’t the case. Stancy's relationship ✧ struggled ✧, justifying intimate moments between Nancy and Jonathan - making us feel as if he'd be better for her after all. A smart writing choice, as Duffers intended Jancy as season 2's endgame pairing.

Now, I'd like to point out the foreshadowing of this development.

Come the wrapping up of s1, and it seemed Nancy had retreated back to Steve.

They'd clearly reconciled and - to an outsider - all would appear to be going smoothly. But us as the audience know that not to be the case.

One reason? Well, she'd just shared a suggesting moment with Jonathan.

So our minds weren't on Steve and this show of his with Nancy. Rather, we read into Nancy's slight discomfort, and wondered if perhaps she'd prefer being with Jonathan instead.

This was of course intentional. I'd like to briefly bring to attention the similarities in these moments to ones at the end of s3 - between Mike and Will, and then Mike and El.

Here a conclusion to milkvan's seasonal drama is made, them seemingly staying together, parting on good terms. Hm. And milkvan's moment is.. kinda like stancy's. They got back together because, well, El said she loves Mike. And Steve loves Nancy. And Mike loves El right? The way Nancy loved Steve- But just, coincidentally, we have byler's reconciliation too.

This came before the guy's makeup with El, because, why? This was quite the interesting decision mates. It means that whilst he spends that moment with his girlfriend, our minds are fresh off of Will. People might read into the way he's acting in contrast, just maybe, the way they did during stancy. And people did. That's a bit of a fumble on the writers' part, if you ask me. I know you're trying to let us know that Mike's now on good terms with both members, and his and El's goodbye needs to be the dramatic finishing of the season, but, man, did byler even have to make up at all here you guys? I mean this miscommunication of theirs lasts through to s4 (just like janc-). Why not sort their good terms out later or earlier on, so that we have more mindspace here to focus solely on milkvan, our main main? Or at least, why not just have Mike apologize to Will and be done with it? He could even apologize alongside Lucas, making the moment less personal. And Will could simply forgive him, give a dudely pat it out, and that's it. We wash our hands.

But nah. There's this electricity in the air. The swelling music, the prolonged looks, this doesn't.. seem like a simple make up. It's startlingly short, making us feel as if there have been things left unsaid. And that line,

".. Not possible."

It's so... implying. What do you mean? Why are you looking at eachother like that? What am I meant to get from this scene?

And it isn't a closing reconciliation either, they haven't properly ended their season's drama. I mean no one even apologized for the argument, we're just sort of left with this. Left with the hint of a story that might be further explored - their moment coming off more as anticipation for what's to come than a conclusion. Maybe just a bit like Jonathan and Nancy s1.

But so what? That does not have to mean anything romantic between them is to be told. After all, El just expressed to Mike that she loves him. This means that these sweethearts are practically fortold as endgame, right?

Alright I'll stop stalling.

Season 4.

So. Will is in love with Mike now. Huh. Well, I don't recommend this. As I said, you risk people rooting for Will beyond their hopes for Mike and El as a couple. If this is a plotline you desire, it has to be navigated with precision. So this means that milkvan must be on their A game. Struggle between them has got to be handled delicately. As we see in stancy, and as we saw in s3, just making up at the end of it all isn't good enough. You can risk this mistake once, but we must like these guys together throughout season 4, more than we sorrow for Will. Infact, Will's feelings must not be made too big of a deal. Mike and El are going to stay together, so we should feel a bit sorry for him, but not gather any hope that things will actually work out to his favour.

Like Dustin in s2. He sprouted small feelings for Max, and so did Lucas. Lumax were the endgame, so Dustin's feelings were craftly navigated and not made more important than Max and Lucas' bond. We don't really feel that Dustin is in love with Max, moreso that he likes her and has some moments of jealousy aimed at Lucas. Noone really wanted him with her more than they rooted for Lumax, though we did sympathize for him and feel bad for him regardless.

So yeah, this can easily be written out for Will too. If his story's purpose is meant for the exploration of a gay kid navigating a still homoph#bic time, then there's a lot that can be done without even having to spare much screen time between him and Mike. Focus on his fear of judgement from Jonathan moreso maybe, or have Argyle say something - it can be whatever, mention something homoph#bic, mention something not homoph#bic and give Will hope, whatever - which sets off a thought or idea for Will that prepares his arc for the season.

Back to Mike and El - so we want a 'scared to say "I love you"' subplot. That's good, that good. Fleshes out Mike, plays into El's fears. Shouldn't be too hard.

There's already a mild problem though. This plot is playing out twice at once. We have our boy Will hosting this same fear of rejection by Mike - at least that's how things have been shot. His dread is portrayed through his restraint and timidity in revealing his painting to Mike. Will's painting is basically his version of a confession - the guy too selfless, shy and afraid to express his love outright.

So playing out this storyline at the double is.. a choice. I mean, Mike telling El he loves her is a big deal for the milkvans, shouldn't this romance dominate as much screen time as possible in order to be fully pumped up without any sidetracks to other insignificant in comparison feelings? S3 was already quite clumsy, why not have Mike and El's activities soak in all viewers' engrossment without any departures? Maybe spend a bit of time demonstrating how likeable and wholesome they actually are together. Now that we have Will's affection ontop it all, what's important is that Mike and El's camera time spent matters. They can be angsty, they can withhold some misunderstandings, but they still have to be a good. couple.

Oh yeah, also, Mike should blatantly display feelings for El and El only - duh.

.

..

huh ?

huh ? ? ?

#part 3 is on its way 💪 #anti milkvan #anti mileven #byler #byeler #stranger things #stranger things byler #stranger things 4 #mike wheeler #will byers #byler is endgame #byler endgame #byler is real #byler is canon #byler analysis #byler proof #byler rights #byler tumblr #byler nation

[howtobecomeadragon]

here's what mlvn's say about their ship and what they want from s5 when they're not feeling defensive about byler:

(these are from a reddit post posted about a month ago with no byler interactions, and these are many of the same people claiming that mlvn is perfect, there are no big issues, etc when byler is brought up as an alternative ship. all of these comments have upvotes and no arguing. they were all on the same page with no defensiveness about the perceived shortcomings of the relationship and wishing for better for mlvn in s5.)

many acknowledgments that the ship has been sidelined

acknowledgment that El does NOT compliment Mike. acknowledgment that Mike's self esteem is tied to El, although there is no awareness that this not a good thing. they want to see El supporting Mike in some way, which means they know we're currently missing this. they want to see just 20+ seconds of Mike and El enjoying each other's company. "more than 20 seconds" bc the show does this with other couples but they're still waiting to see that with mlvn. 🤨🤨 "it's only fair." ooookay, and who always says shit about fan service?

acknowledgment that mlvn as a couple has sucked for the last two seasons, for half the show, for the entire time that they've officially been a couple. always going back to the romantic moment of "El fell into his arms in the sauna test" which was not a scripted moment, MBB literally collapsed and Finn caught her. always going back to El being protective, i.e. making sure he doesn't die, which she does for everyone in these scenes.

this was a really interesting one bc I think a lot of bylers think that mlvns want to see improvement from Mike’s behavior in the relationship, but most were more focused on El needing to do more.

"she hasn't demonstrated concern and empathy so much for Mike in the last two seasons" 🤨 then why do you ship it 🤔

"I don't doubt how much El adores and care for Mike but she needs to show it better/more" 🤔🤔 ohhhhh okay, so you have decided that El adores Mike and are frustrated that this isn't reflected well in El's behavior since they've been a couple. you made up your mind probably in 2016 and are frustrated by the lack of follow-up and progression in their relationship since 2017. gotcha. 😇😇

mlvn's blame the writing for El appearing to have inconsistent motivations and characterization bc she isn't a perfect girlfriend to Mike that doesn't act like she's head over heels. hmmm. 🤔

someone seems to be about halfway there in realizing that maybe with her lack of a good foundation of socialization when she entered into a romantic relationship, she doesn't have the standard emotional growth, but not quite extending that as far as "maybe she should grow a little on her own first." reminder that when a byler says something like this, they're accused of ableism and "disregarding what El wants"

acknowledgment that we have not gotten to see mlvn functioning as a couple and that we don't know HOW they function. we don't know their bf/gf dynamics. after 4 seasons. mlvns are often stating to bylers that their endgame ship is already set, all that's left is a happy ending, but in reality they are still hoping to see how their ship functions as a couple, to see one half of the ship compliment the other half. they don't doubt that they are endgame, but they're crossing their fingers for just bare minimum coupley interactions, while all the other established couples get those. I wonder why 🤨🤨

acknowledgment that the duffers haven't been interested in portraying mlvn as a perfect couple: "flakey history"

claims that El was more mature in s1 than s3 and s4. WILD coming from mlvns that call bylers sexist. "more mature" bc she seemed to like Mike more. El not acting like a perfect girlfriend to Mike is bad writing and a total mess apparently. totallllly not purposeful at all, nope 🙄

more acknowledgment that El hasn't been a great girlfriend to Mike. some overlapping reasons with bylers (she's not complimenting Mike, she never apologizes), some not (the root of this is bc she takes on too much responsibility for everyone's safety...?).

acknowledgment that the way mlvn is functioning now is NOT a 2 way functioning relationship and that El is NOT meeting Mike's emotional needs. no acknowledgment of who does meet Mike's emotional need, though. 😏

acknowledgment that their relationship thus far has been bogged down with "unnecessary" arguments and drama

acknowledgment that they don't really discuss their feelings now and there is air that still needs to be cleared

acknowledgment that the writing is good otherwise in the show but for soooome reason it lacks when it specifically focuses on mlvn's relationship. 🤨🤨 again, still hoping for those scraps of "how do these two even play off each other" in the final season and the third season of mlvn together as an official couple.

all of this to say really: the super aggressive mlvns on reddit, for the most part, know that they're exaggerating the idyllic nature of mlvn's relationship when they're arguing against bylers. they thought mlvn was really cute in s1 and s2 and have been waiting 6 years since 2017 for their relationship to be cute again, and they're frustrated and just wanting the bare minimum in s5.

they're still waiting for the basics about "cute moments that last more than 20 seconds," they're still waiting to see how they function as a couple despite them dating for 2 seasons now. they're still waiting for El to act like a good girlfriend and not just a "superhero."

#byler #anti mileven #st reddit #these comments were so fascinating to read after getting so much rose colored bullshit thrown our way every time byler comes up over there

[byernation]

Whenever you doubt Byler, remember that Will was planned to be in love with Mike from the start. Remember that Finn and Noah had to take a chemistry test. Remember that Mike has never had moments like that with anyone but Will. Remember the Venkman Lucas/Max Mike/Will foreshadowing. Remember every heart to heart Will and Mike have had. Remember the Variety interview. Remember Brett Gelman. Remember Eleven wasn't supposed to come back after season 1. Remember how most of the cast ships Byler. Remember how Byler has way more chemistry than Marijuana. Remember that the Duffers have taken inspiration from many shows with best friends to lovers tropes. Remember that Shawn Levi is for Byler. Remember Finn and Noah are for Byler. Remember the scripts. Remember the Eyewitness parallel. Remember the Byler docs. Remember nobody believing us about Will being gay and calling us delusional when we were right. Remember that Mike and El have nothing in common, and never have normal conversations. Remember the Duffers saying they don't believe in love at first sight. Remember Mosquito breakups being shown as comedic. Remember Byler fights being shown as a serious breakup. Remember Season 2. Remember the final placements in Season 4. Remember the show cares about detail. Remember Megamind is paralled to doomed relationships. Remember that, Byler, Jancy, Jopper, and Lumax are endgame couples, and have been all paralleled to each other at least once. Remember how the four endgames are always standing together. Remember the Duffers calling Mildew puppy love. Remember the cast's reaction to the monologue. Remember the stupid ass monologue in general. Remember Causeineedu. Remember NaturallyBrielle. Remember Millie improvising in almost all Mormon scenes. Remember the duffers mentioning one of their favorite shows growing up was a show where a man fell in love with his best friend who had a gf, and it turned out he shared those feelings. Remember that Mozzarella is paralled to Byler, but Byler is always the better version (You make me feel better for being different/You think I am a monster [] I say it/You didn't have to) and many more. Remember that Byler is absolutely going to be endgame, and they wouldn't build it up for 4 seasons for it to be unreciprocated. The duffers make mistakes, everyone does, but they know what they're doing (they made a hit show) and if you're still doubtful, it isn't just them writing it. Also, we have the music, the sets, the outfits, and camera angles on our side as well. Let MinnieMouse deny it all they want, but Byler is endgame along with Jopper, Jancy and Lumax. We have already won. It's been confirmed many times before, we just have to wait to prove it. And in those to years more proof will come, and we've gotten a lot of it already and it's only been 2 weeks. I know that sounded really stupid, but I see a few people giving up hope that the Duffers can pull this off (including myself at times) and I think despite all the proof we have we all need to hear this, especially with the Malaria shippers flooding everyone's inboxes lmfao. Anyways have and anazing day/night Byler nation. I am done with my rant.

#byler is endgame #byler #byler nation #byler tumblr #brett gelman #murray bauman #mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #mike wheeler is not straight #will byers is gay #stranger things #will byers #byler better be canon #byler hope #byler is requited

[kaypeace21]

It's funny people are losing it over the byler fight possibly being based off a romantic fight, in the highschool musical sequel. Because , byler (long before s4) has been paralleled to romantic pairings - that are from shows/films that are confirmed ST inspo. It's not new. The writers also said the original highschool musical was inspo for s4 ... so the idea the sequel is also inspo, is fairly possible. I even said a few years ago , and got teased by the way ,for mentioning how gabriel/Troy parallel byler because : Byler knew eachother since kindergarten. And in the og film- troy/gabriel say it's "feels" like they've know eachother since they were in kindergarten. They say it a bunch in the first film .And now people are noticing the byler fight (via dialogue and framing) also parallels troy/Gabriella's fight.

But did yall also forget the byler s3 fight (which parallels the s4 fight) was also based off a different romantic scene from a diff series? I noticed/mentioned this parallel - years ago. Duffers said they were huge fans of Dawson's creek.

In the D.C scene the 2 childhood friends try to deny their romantic feelings and fight about it ...one character does so with one very interesting line :

The character who says the same line as mike: is actually in love with their childhood friend. Yet uses this exact line to change the subject/deny their feelings to their friend (when confronted by them).

Also d.c had an endgame gay couple (what's funny is - one had a sister, the other had a brother. Their straight siblings dated before them- but eventually they broke up. And the gay siblings ,started dating later,and were endgame).

Also look at the framing of the gay realization: both occur at the end of an episode where we see them hugging a girl ,and only see the back of the girls' heads - as they zoom in on the guys' faces filled with turmoil.

Even after the gay realization/scene in d.c ,he (jack) pretends to be straight and still dates the main girl for a bit longer. Both are rich guys who initially date the main girl character (because they are in deep denial about being lgbt). And both have a smart overachiever sister who initially dates a guy who is poor,and has a shitty dad.And by the end jack dates the brother of his sister's ex. And this (straight ) brother always assumed his brother was gay and was also an ally to jack,before the jack and his brother dated- reminds me a bit of jonathan.

Some also thought the s3 byler fight reminded them of the fight between a gay pairing in " eyewitness". It has no confirmation of being inspo by the Duffers (unlike hsm or d.c). But the framing is very similar... coincidence or not. The boy on the same side as mike (has a gf, and was in serious denial/repression about his romantic feelings for the other guy, during said fight.) That boy had so much internalized homophobia- especially because he was from/lived in a small town. Their fight in a garage, the car in the background, the lighting . Coincidence or not the parallel is definitely something else... lol

Eyewitness even has another similar scene, which i really disliked in both shows: dude in woods with camera records love interest... cough with someone else doing , y'know. Yall remember that mess in s1 of stranger things. Ick.But, I digress.

Also byler in s2 is based off Ghostbusters. And name dropped in the show. Mike said he was Venkman. Venkman's love interest was Dana (Will): who gets possessed, and then can control demon dogs during said possession, one demondog was in her fridge too, they have to close the gate to break her possession. Does any of this sound very familiar. Cause it should...

And in s1 mike writes a d&d story where king Tristan (Will) gives mike and his friends medals at the end of s1. Like the end of the original star wars film where princess leia gave medals to han (her future love interest) and han's friends . Mike, a star wars nerd: replaced princess leia for a king (Will)- who gave medals (to their future love interest) . The medal ceremony was romantic foreshadowing since Han winks at leia after she gives him the medal.

There's more examples.little woman was s4 inspo. Dude dates girl, but he ends up with his ex's artist sibling -instead. Before that-the artist 3rd wheeled her sister and future love interest while the 2 were skating /holding hands. Aka just like Will watching mike and el skate. Or heck "it" series is confirmed inspo too-ben/bev/bill parallels Will/mike/El. Bev (mike) gets romantic poem (painting). Bev (mike) assumes the poem (painting ) is from Bill (El) when it's actually from Ben (Will). Bev was into Bill, but later she realized the poem is from Ben. When she realized the words were from ben- they became endgame. So if Mike ever finds out the truth of the painting (what will happen?).

But literally every season byler is paralleled to a romantic pairing from a show/film the duffers or writers like. The fact byler scenes are often based off romantic pairings/scenes is strange if platonic or one sided. That's all i'm saying XD

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #stranger things

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

ngl the biggest piece of bylers doubt i have is the length of s5 itself — the season is only 8 episodes long.

they have to resolve so many plotlines and give every character their arc conclusion. how are they gonna have enough time to implement and write byler properly?

i'm confident about byler in pretty much all other aspects, but TIME is the one thing that makes me doubt myself in terms of belief in byler endgame.

I understand that fear, but I’m not worried about that for three reasons. One, when you look at other ships in the show (Jancy, Lumax, Duzie, even Milkvan), that’s actually the amount of time they’ve had to execute these ships, all while dealing with other plotlines and characters. Jancy and Lumax were built up over the course of S2, and the initial connection between Mike and El was set up in S1 (even if they didn’t start dating until later). With Duzie, we learned that Dustin had a girlfriend in S3, and it was fully believable by the end, even without her being in-person once. ST is a show that leans into interpersonal relationships alongside the supernatural worldbuilding stuff. Eight episodes is actually more than enough time to execute Byler. I mean, two hour movies execute believable romances alongside other storylines from scratch, so why wouldn’t the writers be able to do so here?

Two, all the building blocks are here. The entire history of Mike and Will’s friendship, the painting miscommunication/lie, Mike’s monologue to El, the messy state of Milkvan, being back in Hawkins during the Satanic Panic, Mike promising to be by Will’s side in the apocalypse, and more. They aren’t implementing Byler from scratch, unlike Lumax in S2, even if it seems that way to those who don’t know it’s coming. There’s a lot of raw material to work with. It’s a lot closer to Jopper’s development in S4, which was built on the shoulders of their complicated romantic history. Byler is already in the show. It just hasn’t been consummated yet.

Three, and this is most important, the Duffers have made clear that S5 is Will’s coming-of-age story. The whole show is, really. Of course Stranger Things is an ensemble show. Of course characters like El are still gonna get a lot of screen time in the battle against Vecna (she isn’t beating main character allegations anytime soon, I’m afraid). Of course every character’s story needs to be resolved, and new romances like Rovickie need to be executed as well.

But Will is undeniably gonna be the focus. And if Will is the focus, along with his sexuality, there’s no way Byler won’t be. Byler is not a side story. It’s intertwined with the main themes of the show and with Will’s arc. And we also know that Mike is the heart, and there’s a lot of foreshadowing there. Mike is important in both Will and El’s stories, so this chaotic love triangle WILL be present and central. Even diehard Milkvans have to acknowledge that things simply aren’t resolved. Will hasn’t transparently told Mike how he feels yet. Mike and El still haven’t addressed the monologue. The painting lie has not been addressed. These things are not part of our imagination. They are real, and with Will taking center stage, there’s nothing to fear time-wise.

#byler #stranger things #will byers #mike wheeler #will byers main character

[chirpsythismorning]

Idk what’s worse, the fact that there are milkvans out there that believe El commissioned Will’s painting, or that a majority of milkvans believe she didn’t, but still think everything Will said to Mike in the van scene applies to how El feels about Mike as well. And honestly, how could they not? Mike looked very happy and emotional hearing Will's words in the van... no shit they're hoping that's how El feels.

But El never called Mike the heart. El never said she needed Mike and always will. Those words coming from Will's feelings for Mike, then being used to inspire Mike to give his monologue to El, was disingenuous bc it was never El’s feelings being responded to in the first place.

‘It only works if it comes from you’

That’s the whole problem. It didn’t work bc it was coming from Will, not El.

IF everything Will said applied to El, why not have it come from her?

No, but seriously??

Is s5 just going to open up to El apologizing to Mike for ignoring him after the monologue, followed by her just repeating everything Will said with her own twist and Mike being like cool!! That works for me!

The problem with making the narrative choice to instead focus on Will's feelings at the forefront, only to follow it up with El's identical feelings, does nothing but make the whole thing fall flat.

Instead of seeing this main couple voice their love for each other themselves, I gotta have her brother do it for her?? And only then after he does it, can I see her do it in like a 2.0 version of sorts????

So many milkvans are willing to acknowledge that Mike and El’s dynamic throughout the series is riddled frivolous conflict more than anything, with little to no time dedicated to showing the development that actually matters. They say they wish the show spent more time with them actually face to face acknowledging how they both feel verbally without the constant cloud of some other third party interfering, causing them to have issues. They say that this time though, they think the Duffers will magically pull through for them and go from what they believe is shitty writing to ‘good’ writing, based in terms of how they'll handle Mike and El's relationship in s5...

But that's not realistic on any front, milkvan, byler or otherwise.

And that's a big part of the problem, bc they know the pacing has not been great for them, and they NEED the show to just give them Mike and El so they can be happy, but that's not how you build up suspense for a love story. And dragging out Mike and El any more, would just be a repeat of every other season before. They reached their peak and so they can only down from here. That's kind of the whole point.

One thing to note is that the Duffers always create conflict for the incompatible couple early in a season, so that the audience doesn’t feel too uncomfortable with the idea of considering the other option that’s at the forefront for the rest of the season.

This will ESPECIALLY be the case for byler, bc Will already has home wrecker allegations as it is. And it's also a highly controversial queer ship, and so people are going to be making claims left and right that it’s wrong bc of xyz.

They just wont be able to have byler scenes loaded with romantic tension all season long, more than any other season, and with the story making it more obvious they want us to root for them, while also having Mike and El still be together. And it's simply bc the reality is the Duffers have a record of doing the complete opposite of that.

This is also endgame territory, so there is a serious pressure on the writers part to get their audience to be closer to rooting for byler than denying it even being possible. Meaning they NEED the audience to be watching their first kiss and, for better or worse, be thinking, FINALLY just get it over with already!

Also what's El's supposed to be up to while this is happening? Are we assuming she's just stringing along waiting for Mike to get his shit together? Like Jesus!

El has every right to say her piece and get that shit over with, by episode 1 or 2 at the latest. She could be a focused on Max and her family and friends, which if you'll note also includes Mike and Will, but instead this time without the pressure of her having to hope that something will turn around and suddenly Mike will decide he finally loves her... She doesn't deserve that.

Byler is clearly the route they are taking. If that is the plan, it's time to make this separation so that the audience is finally confronted with viewing Mike and El without the constant rose tinted love at first sight goggles, and instead give them a chance to be their authentic selves.

And I think El, being a character that could barely speak in s1, that her not getting her own voice in this situation is fucking serious. El not being able to say those words to Mike herself, like there's a reason for that. And so when she finally does get to say how she feels, there isn't going to be any room for subtext or misunderstanding, not on the audiences part nor Mike's. El has always been pretty clear about what she wants and I think that will apply in s5 now more than ever.

#byler #no but srs i try to imagine their version of the show and my brain sort of just freezes up #is their dynamic going to just completely shift and they'll communicate perfectly #after barely communicating at all at the end of s4? #like they know that milkvan need to be together by now to make sense and that's why their version has them happy right away #bc they cant allow themselves to see it any other way #bc it would just literally be a repeat of every other season... #somethings gotta give #give el her voice to say how she feels for herself #and don't be mad when it turns out her brothers feelings don't exactly match up with hers #you know.. the words mike smiled captivatingly too...

[spoodersrus]

Will they address the rain fight

after vol 2 when i wasn't sure about byler actually happening, i didnt think the rain fight would ever be addressed. but now that i'm certain of byler endgame its SO weird when rewatching to know that they never talk about this heartbreaking sequence between two of the main characters.

like everything else in the show gets addressed and works towards being resolved, so having that particular fight not have any concequences besides will destroying castle byers is just like oh yeah duh, this is a storyline that's being dragged (drug?) out until the finale. there was so much weight to those scenes, and then they just... dissolved into thin air.

^^^ like in case you forgot, mike came to find will at the obliterated castle byers in the rain at the tail end of his breakdown. he saw. he was literally chasing will down to patch their relationship and talk through what happened. but they never did. that's how the episode ends for them. at castle byers in the rain. the next time we see them together is the next episode when the whole gang is in mikes basement talking about wills neck tingles.

mike now looks dim amd remorseful when he looks at will.

you can totally argue that his s4 bedroom apology about feeling like he lost will, or that his "we had a fight you cant come back from" talk was him using el like will did, but the rain fight by no means has been directly addressed, and whether you think it was about underlying romantic feelings OR was strictly about the party/DnD, the emotional and visual intensity it was filmed with says that it was a big deal. which means to never address the ramifications would be bad writing.

you may argue that it doesn't need to be addressed. they got past it, they moved on, who cares. but given the not fully explained tension and weirdness between mike and will early s4, and the fact that the duffers said s5 would be about wills coming of age... which the rain fight was directly about...

yeah we have not heard the last about that episode. the destruction of castle byers is bound to come up when his disappearance becomes the topic, and mike is gonna get the rammys thrown right in his face :) that boy will not escape facing his darkness head on.

#byler #they forgot about the rammys bro #mike wheeler #will byers #the rain fight #st5 predictions #st5 #stranger things theories #cleradin

[i-am-autistic]

I feel like if you have any media literacy at all you should know Jancy is very likely endgame.

You can read my posts and see I'm not even a hardcore Jancy or anything I lean more Jargyle. It's just like........

1. The writers like their original pairings from s1 a lot. Mike-El/Will(Im pro Byler, yes Will isn't present in s1 but Mike spends like 90% of the season moaning and talking about him- for the sake of this post El/Will are interchangeable), Jonathan-Nancy, Joyce-Hopper and then they also like Max-Lucas. All 4 of these couples have been presented as romantic since the pitch bible and from their first interactions.

2. S4 was all about division and how the characters lose when divided. They really focused on the absence of Jancy in s4. Hence they are building to an s5 with a lot of Jancy. We also got s4 featuring the other 2 main couples: Jopper and Lumax so it's probably going to switch to the other 2 couples to finish it off and wrap up the relationship and character arcs. The duffers really really love the whole story beat of "break the characters up and then show them coming back together". You can tell because this is exactly what they did with Jopper and Lumax in s4. Jopper obviously had a physical distance that broke them up but Lumax had an emotional distance. The same things Jancy and Mileven/Byler are bringing into s5. Arguably you could even say Byler went through this in s4.

3. Cmon bro the final scene where Nancy RUNS to Jonathan and Robin pats Steve's back is the most obvious thing of all time. People bring up the script and that it wasn't a big moment in the script but those scripts are redacted as hell to avoid giving out more information.

4. Jonathan and Steve had a pretty clear parallel this season when talking about having kids in the future. Jonathan and Steve essentially come to the same vision for their futures but both decide differently. Jonathan hates it and Steve loves it. We also know from s1 and every piece of info we've got about Nancy since s1 that Nancy also hates it and doesn't want to raise a bunch of kids. Yes I know it's possible to pursue a career and have kids. But kids in this situation and the vision Steve have don't only represent kids but also represent her parents and their relationship. Which is what the show has always told us Steve represents to her and in everything we saw in s4 he hasn't developed into this new person, he still represents that. Even if the character himself has still improved he still represents that.

5. As soon as Stancy is introduced in s4 we also get introduced to the fact that Nancy isn't over Barb and Barb will still be a part of her arc. Which she pretty inextricably links to Steve.

6. This is the one people don't realize often but s4 is literally maybe 5(?) months after the end of s3. Taking place in March 86 with S3 ending Oct 85 and about 8 months after the end of s3. Steve has seemingly had literally 0 contact with Nancy in that time and doesn't fall for her again in s4. He's already fantasizing about her as he says so it's presented as a continuation of the feelings he's always had for her and he seemingly isn't as over her in s3 as was implied. If the writers are going to write that relationship, they are essentially saying they were wrong, the characters were wrong and the audience was wrong about the relationship.

7. This is kind of a half point expansion of the above but like.....seriously it's important that none of the feelings in s4 are new feelings, it's all old feelings for a relationship the writers have told us 1 million times doesn't work. I keep seeing people say "they are different people" but they aren't that different from when they broke up. Steve's actual in show character arc has always been a lot more revolving around Nancy than it is about his relationship with Robin or the kids. Like as much as the fandom is about Steve and the kids and it's cute(And I like this too! I don't dislike this) in the show when he becomes friends with Dustin it's all tied back to Nancy with that final Dustin-Nancy scene and the relationship literally being developed with Steve ranting about his relationship. S3 his relationship with Robin in the original version is written as a romantic one as he gets over Nancy. Even in the show for 90% of s3 it seems Steve looks at Robin as a romantic partner and then switches to friends when she's not available. I think people forget he's not actually babysitting the kids in his off time in the show-the fandom is cute and such- but I don't think he spends significant time with anyone except Dustin and Robin in the show. This is moreso a point about how the writers of the show are kinda poor at evolving the characters. But seemingly the way it was presented in s4 Nancy and Steve are essentially in an incredibly similar position to when they broke up in s2.

8. Joyce in the recent play. Ok I need this to be said but like Emmerson vs NYU is a thing people make out as a bigger deal than it is. Emmerson is like an excellent university too??? Like IK people want Jonathan to be validated but he is getting validated by going to a big university. The university you pick when you're a kid doesn't really matter that much and seemingly even Jonathan hasn't brought it up. Like as a kid I wanted to go to my local uni a lot but I didn't go in the end. Emerson isn't like bumming it out it's a pretty great uni. But morseo I mean Joyce's whole arc in the First Shadow is about not going to university as an art student. They are surely not going to make her son do the exact same thing. This one is really simple I don't need to explain it.

9. I think Jopper literally solves like all of Jonathan's family issues because he won't feel as burdened and that he HAS to stay.

10. Oh as a final point I'm fairly certain Argyle with Eden in Suzie's house in s4 was supposed to be a backdoor pilot for a spinoff. And I think Jonathan's only other ending they've given so far is California. I think maybe they could include Jonathan in a spinoff but I don't think they'd want to. Like they've said they don't want to continue any mains story after s5 and Argyle is periphery enough he could leave and have a spinoff and it could work with an occasional Dustin cameo or whatver but with Jonathan I feel like he is a bit too tied to the Byers for him to be in a spinoff. Like you'd have to include the Byers too and I don't think they would want one that features central characters too much.

11. This is just my opinion.

#jonathan byers #jancy #anti stancy #nancy wheeler #byler #joyce byers #stranger things #jim hopper #jopper #this is not even really anti stancy because I don't even hate the ship I just cannot see it happening after s4

[willthewise-blog]

OK SO, let me see if I understand👺☝️

if byler isn’t endgame, then WHYYY ON EARTH the Duffers Brothers would write a character that is GAY in the 80S and that has been psychologically AND physically bullied in school by multiple people, bullied by his own father, experienced his parents getting divorced, had to listen to his parents fight and yell at each other, having an absent and alcoholic dad that never cared about him, being literally kidnapped by monsters from an alternative dimension (WITH AN UNKNOWN REASON TO BE SPECIFICALLY HIM), being starved for days, TRAUMATIZED IN GENERAL, when he came back the first thing that he knew was that while he was missing the boy he have a crush on fell in love with a girl he just met, AFTER THAT instead of kids at his school being happy because his alive, they started bullying him more and calling him “zombie boy”, feeling like a freak because everyone started treating him like he can’t handle things on his own, he was literally vomiting slugs from another dimension, THEN he got possessed FOR DAYYYS, he was willing to close the gate even if he had to die, he was exposed to extreme temperatures, WHEN HE WAS FINE AGAIN he just wanted things to go back to normal and play D&D again together like they used to, but all his friends completely ignored him, had a bad fight with his love interest what led him to destroy castle Byers while crying and feeling stupid for ever thinking he had a chance with his crush, then being COMPLETELY ignored again and had to use his own feelings to save the relationship between his love interest and his girlfriend because he loves him that much that all he wants is him to be happy no matter if is with other person, CANONICALLY FEELING LIKE A MISTAKE, AND THEEEEEN, AS IF ALL OF THIS WASN’T ENOUGH, REJECTED BY THE LOVE OF HIS LIFE WHICH HE LITERALLY HAS BEEN IN LOVE SINCE FOREVER AND HAVE HAD THE MOST ROMANTIC AND HEART-TO-HEART CONVERSATIONS EVER??!!! BRO AT THIS POINT THIS IS JUST TORTURE FR

#byler #Will Byers #Mike wheeler #byler endgame #byler tumblr #byler is real #Will and Mike #byler canon #byler obsessed #mike wheeler is gay #byler confirmed #stranger things #noah schnapp #finn wolfhard #anti milkvan

[bylerhomo]

I’m sorry but if Byler isn’t endgame I feel like they would’ve written Argyle to be younger and that character slot would have been used as a last minute love interest for Will, like Vickie is for Robin. Like the Duffers wouldn’t plan for everyone but the gay boy to have a reciprocal romance. Why would they choose to have a story where every other character else gets their unlikely teen romance fantasy (even if it didn’t last to the end like with Steve). It would’ve been an obviously weird exclusion made by the writers for Will specially. And that creative decision would only have a problematic explanation. You can’t have a wish fulfillment kinda writing style for every other character’s arc but then make a exception for the gay boy who was victimized by the Upside Down multiple times, survived an abusive father, and bullied with homophobia. I don’t think the Redditors ranting in all their anti Byler posts process that harsh reality though. That’s why they are hard coping with their Melvin delusions.

#byler #mike wheeler #will byers #stranger things

[will80sbyers]

I am a multi shipper so don't take this as an attack on Byler, I like Byler's dynamic too but I like and think Mileven is endgame. My problem with Byler is actually how some of the shippers act, like saying Mike has never loved El and was just with her to his sexuality does not sound great. Now, I am queer myself and I understand that this type of experience can happen irl. But in terms of it happening in a limited time frame in a tv show where we just watch these characters for a couple of seasons and how Mileven has been marketed for 4 seasons straight, are we really supposed to just accept that Mike and El never ever felt romantic feelings for each other? And the monologue, which happened in the show's climax moment, it being disregarded as a lie would feel really jarring, especially when we know El got strength from it. Why include it at all if it was a lie? I think there is a difference between preferring Byler as an outcome and a ship, versus trying to erase Mileven's romantic existence completely. Just thinking about the show's narrative, we have gone past the notion of Mike and El never loving each other romantically IMHO.

It all depends on the interpretation you have, I agree with you in thinking they have a real romantic relationship but the people in the byler tag that say they don't, genuinely think Mike has been lying to everyone and himself for years and that that's what the writers are writing, it's not exactly "wanting" to eliminate the relationship as much as thinking that something is happening because of certain details that they think matter

I don't agree that that's the correct interpretation of the show but I genuinely believe byler is going to be the endgame relationship for Mike and Will at the same time

I think that the Duffers will not disregard the relationship Mike had with El in the show, but they are moving the story towards byler endgame because I don't think Mike and El are compatible anymore, their love and relationship was a puppy love/young love type of situation and El and Mike changed as people, I think they were too dependent on each other and are not in love really but have mostly an attachment to the other, they do like each other but the relationship is not working for them as they would like, Mike placed El on a pedestal too high and she's not able to make him see that she likes him as he is on her own, probably because she's not in love with him really and the writing needed to show that El doesn't make Mike feel like Will does this season- her love for Mike is not as deep as Will's love has been shown to be on screen, that doesn't mean she doesn't care about him, it's just something different!

The fact that they used the painting and made Will lie about it and even be the one that reminds Mike to make the monologue instead of making El and Mike resolve their problems is really a death sentence on Mike and El's relationship because imagine if that was happening in any other hetero couple in movies like it often does, that's a sign that the relationship is not working out if they need a 3rd person that is in love with one of them to use his own feelings to fix the problems the other is having in his relationship... That's the death of romance not a climax love confession!

I don't think Mike was lying but I think he was tricked by the feelings behind the painting in the sense that he didn't feel secure and safe enough with El to say that he loved her before Will got involved with his own feelings for Mike

That means that Mike doesn't trust El completely with his own heart to me and that there is something wrong that's stopping Mike from being completely himself with her, he's been trying to be cooler for her since they started the relationship and she started doing the same in s4 because of her own insecurities until she confronted her trauma with Brenner

I think El likes Mike but I don't think she's in love with him, I think she (not consciously) latched onto this relationship because it was a safe space for her after Hop's death and that they are both going to realize the romantic part of their relationship has to end for them to stay as close as they are now on El's side especially... I think she needs something different now and I think Mike is going to realize what he feels for Will is something deep and that's what was stopping him from committing his whole heart to El, because Mike's heart was already Will's before that without him even realizing it

So yeah even if I don't think Mike was lying about anything I think the narrative is going to end with byler endgame at this point otherwise the duffers wrote awful stuff for Mike and El without any reason

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #el hopper byers #stranger things #bi mike wheeler #ask

[oursonwithagirl]

finn wolfhard and why he himself is proof of byler (why his interview answers are like that)

i’m sure you’ve heard that finn can’t play a straight character, so it would essentially just make sense for mike being queer, endgame proved. obvi 🙄 (joke) (but rlly funny cuz the streak must go on)

anyway, finn wolfhard has been in the industry for years, and one of the things that separates him from other actors is his love for the entire filmmaking process. he’s so involved in all the projects that he works on, and it’s great to see a person so passionate about something, and also be able to deliver on it. this is one of the main reasons why i believe that finn 100% knows the ending of stranger things, at least pertaining to mike wheeler, and has been in the know now for a while (i’m talking end of s3 so since 2019). this ending reveal would be important for him to know for his character, because it explains why mike is acting this/that way. i mean, think about it, if we are all right about mike’s queer coding, finn has to have known the motivations behind his character while acting. if there’s one thing that finn can do, it’s keep a secret for the sake of the storyline and he’s doing a fantastic job.

during s3 press, he got asked tons of questions pertaining to melvin, which is a given, considering they just reunited in s2 and fans are excited to see what they’re like as a couple. viewers go onto watch the show and they take notice of a definitive shift in mike’s behavior. at his worst, mike is rude, hurtful, and obsessive. fans are starting to hate mike (lol just wait til s4). in summary, finn’s character gets reduced to being el’s boyfriend who is a bad friend. but we know the ending of s3, and what finn most likely had to have found out in order to portray mike in that way. there’s more to it!

s4 press and his interesting answers (the proof)

- at the premiere, he was asked what’s in store for milkvan. he goes onto say that they’re both discovering things about themselves.

- in the well-know hair chair, finn gets posed the question ‘what’s going on with mike this season?’. he replies saying that mike’s trying to “keep on a normal path” and be as “normal as possible”

- upon getting asked a byler question, specifically about what would happen if mike were to know about will’s feelings, finn wolfhard stated that he thinks there would probably be a mutual understanding and acceptance

- in the post-volume 2 cast interview, the interviewer wanted to know finn’s perspective on where he thinks mike and el’s storyline is going. he responds with basically “i’m excited for the ending of the show and to see which characters leave hawkins (smalltown boy theory) and stay. as for mike and el, it’s hard to tell, but i just hope they both find happiness”

- in a lot of the press, he emphasizes on how good the ending is that the duffers wrote (keeping in mind that the duffers stated it would be controversial)

all answers hint towards what we suspect: milkvan bones, byler endgame - with no explicit statements, yet he’s really just laying it all out.

to tie this into his upcoming panel (yay!), he doesn’t do this often, and he could very well never come back to do it again, so please try remaining respectful in the questions you ask. he is not going to spoil, so don’t try getting him to do that. is he secretly a huge byler super fan? no, he doesn’t get like that with ships, especially of his own, but something he truly appreciates is good writing, so of course he’s going to be on board with it and care about it if it’s going to be given the proper story and wrap-up!

#byler #mike wheeler #mike wheeler i know what you are #stranger things #stranger things season 4 #stranger things analysis #st #mike wheeler analysis #analysis #finn wolfhard

[chartreuse-goose]

volume 2 & instant vs delayed gratification

i feel like everything on this matter has already been said, but i do still want to give my opinion on why i'm okay with byler in st4v2. this might be a longer post! update: it is a longer post omg… please stay :-,))

honestly, if byler happened in volume 2, people would've been so mad. trust me i was ROOTING with my entire heart for it to, but byler realistically could not have been executed well, much less received well, if it happened in 2 episodes. also, yes, i know. we were not expecting it to. everyone LOVES to talk about us as if we were, but we were less hoping for byler and more hoping for a milkvan breakup. we got the opposite and were crushed. it took me 3 days of tearing up even thinking of volume 2 before i could come to this realization, but what happened instead was just as good for us.

i am very critical of the duffer brothers, but i firmly believe that they used volume 2 as a way to give the general audience EXACTLY what they wanted. of course, this came with a price. "exactly what they wanted" would intentionally be written in the least desirable way.

so yes, milkvans won, but only at the steep cost of their eventual losing.

how are they going to lose? well, instant gratification is a bit of a b¡tch. if milkvan was endgame, i genuinely don't think the "i love you" confession would have happened where/when it did. if i was writing stranger things, and i wanted milkvan to actually have a chance at coming back from that “fight you can't come back from,” the moment mike confessed would never be the situation i’d write him to confess during. ever.

i guess if this confession had to occur in volume 2, then the pre-pineapple pizza moment would have been the moment. the duffer brothers wanted us to know that they knew this would've been the perfect moment too, because they teased it. mike almost said it there. man, if only *the* moment for those words to be said wasn't written to be interrupted!

on the flip side, delayed gratification is far more satisfying. if i was writing stranger things and milkvan was endgame, i wouldn't have resolved their relationship problems in volume 2. i would have chosen to hold off until season 5 so it’d have a larger impact on the audience.

google says delayed gratification is "a strategy for reaching your goals and finding long-term fulfillment," so if milkvan was THE goal and you genuinely wanted mike and eleven to find long-term fulfillment within eachother, why'd you solve their problems so quickly? why'd you solve these problems in a way that actually ended up emphasizing their prevalence in mike & eleven’s relationship?

is there, perhaps, another pairing you’ve been intentionally delaying that’ll find their way to each other in season 5? another pairing which has been roughly hinted at since your television series’ pitch? hinted at since character’s first lines? hinted at by creating parallels to other television series telling similar stories? hinted at through subtle looks, line deliverance, wardrobe, staging?

these questions aren’t entirely rhetorical, duffers! i’d LOVE to know!

—————————————————————————

bylers, i guess i wrote out this literal essay to tell you that if mike and eleven were endgame, they wouldn’t have been made penultimategame. it doesn’t make sense considering their issues and the lack of character development gained that would’ve been needed to truly resolve them.

byler is endgame, in this essay i will—

#byler #byler hope #byeler #byler s4 #byler s5 #byler is endgame #byler tumblr #byler nation #byler thoughts #mike and will

[wheeler-fan]

referring to your response on this ask, https://www.tumblr.com/wheeler-fan/739685299098124288/if-el-is-literally-dying-in-front-of-mike-and-hes

...this isn't a hate anon, but i do have some problems with what you said here. i think a big problem with many milevens is how much y'all seem to disregard mike's bond with will and will's pain in general.

like on what PLANET do you think will exists as "his gf's brother" in mike's head? that's his best friend of 10+ damn years, that he bonded with long before el. that's the one person that actually told him how much he mattered in the van scene and made him feel NEEDED and SEEN. that's the boy that mike said meeting was the best thing he ever did. mike's already shown how much he loves Will from that 1 scene alone, be it platonic or romantic. So yeah, the writing set up is all already in place and it won't be a surprise at all if season 5 he ends up falling for will... if he hasn't already. You can blatantly see the direction/build up of the writing surrounding mike's feelings for will, simply from the way they wrote him as insanely attached to will S1-2, and then wrote him as actively pushing will away S3-4. if it was unrequited, there would be no conflicts between them like this. in classic unrequited love writing, if one side is unaware, like the duffers confirmed mike is: 1 person would be pining and heartbroken, and 1 person would be acting as USUAL, friendly, and affectionate. Yet mike is stewing byler's conflicts just as much as will (and it 100% makes sense due to 80s homophobia). Like mike's actives role in these conflicts is the most glaring set up for him having feelings for will in s5.

but i digress~ the bottom line is, will is never gonna be "oh that's my girlfriend's brother" to mike.

ALSO: will is not a bad person if he ends up dating mike. he sacrificed his painting for el and kept trying to push mike and el together all of season 4 despite it hurting himself. he deserves something good FOR ONCE, and mind you: has had an insanely hard and traumatic life too, so idk how only el having a hard life matters to you, but not him??? lol. like we know that el and mike are gonna find out about will's feelings in season 5... that's how the painting lie has been set up. the truth is gonna be forced out. so el is a good person for being with mike, even though she'll find out it's hurting will- a kid who's had a very traumatic life and liked mike BEFORE she even appeared- cause mike chose to be with her? but will wouldn't be a good person for being with mike because el would be hurt and has had a very traumatic life, even IF MIKE CHOOSES TO BE WITH HIM?? i mean, mike's a human, not an object. neither el nor will own mike and have "dibs" on him, that el OR will would be bad people for dating mike regardless of who dated him first, like hello?? ultimately, it's mike's decision and will deserves happiness to be with mike just as much as el does. that doesn't make him a bad person.

nah stop that's not what I meant 😭 when I say that Will is Eleven's brother I don't mean that he is only an eleven's brother to mike😭😭 it wouldn't make sense they have known each other since kindergarten 😭🙏🏻 bffr. I'm just pointing this out as one of the obstacles to making byler endgame (imo), if Mike is going to leave his girlfriend to be in a relationship with his best friend (which I doubt because I think he loves her and isn't lying when he talks about it) then it's his best friend but also the brother of his (then ex) girlfriend! Am I the only one who sees how many problems this would cause between the kids? Second thing, to be clear, I don't think that making Lucas&Mike or Dustin&Mike endgame would be better just because they are not eleven brothers💀 that would also be weird, it would spoil their party + all of them, all three of them have girls!!(and i truly believe that they love them in a romantic way)

I feel like people ship Byler because of Will - we know he's gay, we know he likes Mike romantically, and we know he deserves a happy ending after what he's been through.

but I don't think you're listening to what Mike is saying because everyone automatically assumed Mike was lying??? that he doesn't speak from the heart about eleven and to eleven?? is this your proof that mike is interested in being in a relationship with Will? because "he is not honest with his feelings towards eleven" and he's staring at Will's lips?😭

as a Mileven fan, I'm trying to be realistic and analyze everything- I won't be surprised if Mileven will be endgame because it makes sense to me (please let them be endgame or I'm gonna die) but I also don't want the byler dynamic to be ruined- I love them together!! I can simply appreciate male friendship without turning it into something romantic (it would make a lot more sense to me if not the fact that I'm not assuming mike is lying about his feelings to eleven, i feel that he was speaking from his heart doing a monologue and i personally don't think he's interested in Will in the same way)

and also when I ask someone what he thinks shows that Mike will be in a relationship with Will and not Eleven, I don't want to get an explanation of how Mike behaves around Eleven because believe me, I know it😭 but it's not proof for me that he's in love with Will, it's giving anti mileven and not byler😭and what proof do you have for byler from mike pov? because all I hear is that Mike is staring at Will's lips and it doesn't really convince me, sorry 😭😭

(I'm not trying to be mean this is a serious ask..😭😭)

#stranger things

[pholiabanna]

Sloppy seconds byler aren’t endgame angels with a nightmare is a fool a 25+ year old women with fantasies about teen boys being gay how’s that any different to men’s fantasies about lesbians?

Y’all are so caught up in you’re echo chambers you can’t see it and it’s gonna crash and burn so badly it’s not the byler show either it’s stranger things

Omg I feel so honored to get my first real hate ask!

There's so many things to unpack here, so I think Im gonna go one by one.

First of all, I assume you either ship Mleven or at least you despise byler, but my last post was only tagged as byler so there was no reason for you to see it unless you were stalking the byler tag, which in that case I'm glad you're such a dedicated fan!

Second of all, I'm assuming you're the same anon who has been sending around other anon asks the past couple of weeks always mentioned the words "sloppy seconds". Now, I know nothing about you or about your life enough to tell you what you should or shouldn't do, but I think I'd should let you know how disgusting of a term that is, and what it implies. I'm assuming if you like Mileleven you like Mike too, since he's one half of the ship. That's why it's shocking to me how you seem so adamant of thinking of him as nothing but El's leftovers, as if he wasn't his own person with his self worth! Also, someone's worth doesn't lessen just because they've already been kissed or touched by someone else. That's a sad outlook on life, and I'm not telling you to be mean, but because I think you'll live happier if you leave such toxic mentalities behind. They really do no good to someone's self esteem.

About the women fantasies about gay men, please notice how most people in this tag are underage people of all genders. This is not a sexual fantasy, as these characters aren't even portrayed sexually in the show to begin with. This is people who want to see good stories about themselves being written, and I think that's a really valid thing to wish for. Even if you've seen a couple weirdos out there on the internet, that's not the case for almost the whole of the fanbase. There's creepy people everywhere in every fandom. Also may I add that if you prefer Mike and El (which is completely valid if you do, you're allowed to have your preferences!) they are the same age as Mike and Will. Wouldn't you be predatory as well if you ship them? No you wouldn't, because they're kids and their relationship has never been sexual. Just like with Will and Mike. Assuming that every gay romance is automatically sexual is a very homophobic mindset ingrained in our society. If you really see gay people this way, probably you've been conditioned by society to do so, in that case it's not your fault but it's never too late to educate yourself. You'll be happier, seriously.

Finally, I wouldn't say an echo chamber is a ship community that has more Billions of wievs on TikTok that the other ship and surpasses it on every other platform, and that has general audience filmmakers and professional writers say themselves that they also understand how it's set up to happen in the final season. But again, it is not my job to convince you and you're not forced to change your mind. We will all have to wait until the final season to see who was actually right, only the Duffer brothers know what will happen.

Finally, Stranger Things is obviously not the byler show. However, one of the most important rules of storytelling is writing personal arcs and relationships for the characters to serve as subplots to the main story, so that the characters become full fleshed and realistic. The fact that you can relate to fictional characters, even though you've probably never time travelled done magic, lived in a post apocalyptic time or wathever you wanna imagine, is because you relate to their personal stories. A story isn't good without personal arcs, every professional writer you ask will tell you this. So yes, relationships are an episode aspect of stranger things that people can discuss if they want to. And the byler tag, or any other ship tags exists precisely to focus on those relationships. It doesn't mean that people don't like any other aspects of the show.

Anyways, I hope you enjoyed my little rant anon. I wish you have a great day!

#byler #hate asks #anti mileven