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#PZH reboot
sapplejack · 3 months
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Re-reading some reboot Legion of Superheroes and is that Shampoo from Ranma 1/2 in the background? Wonder how many more anime cameos there are since Jeff Moy is a fan of anime and manga after all.
From Legionnaires #26
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Post-Zero Hour Legion of Super-Heroes Reading List.
I am ever so delighted that since I finished the MAIN series I have had 4 people in my DMs wanting to know an official reading order. This is amazing. So for those who might be a little more message shy here is a list for you to take, keep, and read.
You might see this order and think it's weird, trust me it, it is. The reason why it is weird is because 1.) the Zero Hour event in 1994 rebooted the team in the middle of two books, so the creators drafted up a new start with a #0 issue and 2.) LOSH had two books per month.
Anyway, here is your primary PZH LOSH guide.
Legions of Super-Heroes (1989) has been shortened to "LOSH 1989" for simplicity.
Primary Run
LOSH 1989 #0
Legionnaires #0
LOSH 1989 #62
Legionnaires #19 then you switch back and forth and the comics will guide you where to go at the end of each issue. You do this all the way until the series ends. Don't forget the annuals!
Legion Lost 2000
Legion Worlds
The Legion
Teen Titans/Legion Special - The "end" of their run
Final Crisis: Legion of the Three Worlds - They are revealed to be alive still! Bart and Kon are brought back from dead.
Other Specials and Fun Things
Titans/Legion of Super-Heroes: Universe Ablaze - Read this sometime in the last 10 issues of the primary run.
Legion: Secret Files
Legion of Super-Heroes Secret Files
Showcase '96 Issues #11 & #12 - LOSH '89 should tell you when to jump to these two, you will read them when Querl and the lost Legionnaires are stranded in 1996.
Genesis 1997 - The Genesis Event, you will read this sometime during the time the Legionnaires are stranded in the 90s.
Inferno 1997 - A mini for Inferno, you should read this after Inferno breaks from the stranded Legionnaires in the 90s.
Adventures in the DC Universe Issue #10 - Just a fun little story.
There are many other appearances of this team in the 90s comics, particularly when they are stranded in the 1990s. Their book is particularly good however at informing you where to go, and if they appeared somewhere else.
Thank you, and happy reading.
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Legionnaires #47 You want to read Jenni's run sooooo badly. Do it for her.
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rebootchill · 6 months
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Saw on Reddit people ranking each version of the legion so I wanted to give it a go!
Original Silver Age- It's the silver age, it's the origin to all the concepts and characters but it's too charming and dumb to ever critique. Harmless fun with comic moments that read like elaborate shit posts.
70's era- Actually not a big fan of this era but I appreciate what it builds on for later, it's actually riddle with a lot of strange retcons (like Ayla being Garth and Mekt's little sister and them being twins??), very melodramatic moments for characters being dicks, hitting their girlfriends, and angst out, TYROC. Also not a big fan of the outfits designs making everyone look like eye candy and I do mean EVERYONE. You think that would be a positive but alot of the outfits tell you nothing of their characters abilities, their only purpose is to show the reader skin. I did like it for the creation of Dawnstar and Wildfire and this is the run where RJ gets a lot more focus being their financial backer. It gets way better when Paul and Giffen take over, leading into...
Bronze age Legion- This is LoSH at it's best and most Adult. The angst up teenagers have grown up and now feel like an organized functioning team. They all feel like friends with their own families and histories. Levitz proved that writing a large cast equally for a book is possible by sectioning a bunch of characters in their own little storylines until they all come together for when the real shit behind it all happens. Re-reading this era is purely comfy.
FYL- Hot take: I don't hate FYL. I will agree it has issues especially regarding it's certain retcons but I really do believe it told decent enough stories to not be the worst for me. It really gets the legionnaires to their core, albeit it has to make everyone wash outs and depressed to do so but if you look at the whole run as a character study for everyone. It's pretty good. It's so self contained you can't really bring yourself to hate it. Like it's basically what if Watchmen with LoSH.
Retroboot- This is technically still in the OG continuity and I rather get it out of the way now. It starts out pretty great with "Superman and the Legion of Superheroes" and the "Lightning Saga" being their best introductions especially for newbies, but the main book they did get... Kinda was boring as hell? I didn't think it was terrible, just that whenever it tried to introduce cool things it just drops plotlines and never explores them any further. Characters are faithful enough to the originals tho Garth wasn't ever really a hot head and Tasmia would never sleep with ethnic cleanser. Also r.i.p RJ, damn. It was going pretty fine until the new 52 was cancelled , forcing Querl to accidentally destroy the entire UP and forcing the legion to dispense "permanently". So yeah, pretty disappointing.
PZH "Reboot"- This is probably my real favorite version because it takes all the strengths I said about the Bronze age and mixes it with the imagination of the silver age. Objectively better designs to all other versions, and it's finally really incorporated having aliens members and more humans of color into the team. It's a reboot sure but it's extremely faithful to what came before, some would criticize TOO faithfully. But I don't care. It has like 100 issues so it did something right. Ends kinda poorly tho and we don't know if this version ever found their original universe yet.
Cartoon- Actually my first introduction to the team. It's sorta nothing to write home about, it's just a fun show. Though if it aired today it would get a ton of more fans given that its version of Querl is canon a super-simp. But aren't we all?
Threeboot- this might be the black sheep of all Legions. It's well written with designs that are fairly good if you're a fan of everything matrix. The premise is REALLY interesting and possibly ahead of it's time with adults being overprotective of themselves and their children to hardly allow them to be outside and interact with other people that aren't on another screen. So what went wrong? No cool villains, gets bogged down by infighting team politics, and only select members that Waid probably likes the most gets any character development. So mostly Rokk, Querl, Nura and maybe the Ranzz twins. So yeah, a strong start but it couldn't keep its momentum. It did have a soft boot under Jim Shooter, nothing to really say about it aside from Brainy having sex with a ghost. No comment.
Bendis era- This brings out the raging "fanboy" in me and I rather not feel like that anymore. What can be said that hasn't already been said? 12 issues of f-all happening.
Overall this team has been around for a long time and I hope one day to see them have another run again, preferably back to their former glory but not afraid to introduce new concepts to build upon itself.
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l-e-g-i-o-n-losh · 6 years
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Its time for a Big Comics Opinion
The most tragic Legion arc imo is the Reboot/pzh COMPUTO arc because it absolutely didnt need to happen.
I think it embodies the absolute worst of the Legion's potential. It's what happens when heroes give in to their cruelest impulses to hate and fear the unknown, and stop striving for the superheroic ideal of compassion and understanding that the Legion was founded to pursue.
There were so many chances to de-escalate, ignored in favor of aggression, and while everyone felt the loss of white/neutral Triad no one (save perhaps Brainiac 5) seems to fully grasp that COMPUTO was an infant. A brand new baby lifeform, possibly the beginning of a new species, condemned to death within maybe 10-20 minutes of its birth.
No one can be perfect all the time, but superheroes have to try. Uncertainty about new things is instinctive, but hatrid is a learned behavior. People like Earth Man and Andromeda got infected with it so early it consumed them by the time they met the Legion. The Metal Men were not life-destroyingly absorbed by it, but they let it control them long enough to teach it to baby COMPUTO. The Legion, out of ignorance or frustration or simply stress overload from being trapped in the past, let go of their self control and reason and patience and let it overwhelm them too.
It escalated and escalated until there was death and tragedy, and the whole thing could have been avoided with five minutes of patience and kindness and not violently attacking superpowered babies.
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legionworldproject · 7 years
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Here I go again... Rambling ahead.
I keep on looking through the old issues of the New 52 Legion and honestly there was a lot of potential. Vi and Alya were together, the Legion was reforming and Mon became Leader. Then something happened. I am not entirely sure if Giffen is to blame or one of the other writers or hell Didio but something changed. Everything turned very dark. The New 52 was a silly attempt to create a new universe for the DC heroes that may have worked if everyone had commited. Reboot the Legion, give them a fresh start along with everyone else. Don't drag part of their long history with them and then disregard what you want. The old Legion had an ending. Zero Hour destroyed the Legion as we knew them and created a new one with a fresh start. Then they were deleted and a new Legion was born, and quickly discarded for the old. Each Legion has barely had a chance to shine before the heads of DC decide that it's time to destroy everything and start new. Remembering the past is fine and all but find something and stick to it for goodness sake. To me there are four main Legions in the comics (five if you count the comic of the cartoon). The Pre-Zero Hour Legion (Pre-Crisis through Post Crisis), Post Zero Hour Legion (Legionaires- The Legion), Threeboot (self explanatory), and Retroboot/Fourboot. Each one desrved to exist (even threeboot though it needs a lot of work) but Fourboot may be the most questionable one. Yes I loved a lot of it. In the Pre-Flashpoint universe they were setting up the old romance of Kara and Querl, the Legion was kicking ass and taking names. Yes there were some problems (some Legionaires died for no reason :c) but the good made up for the bad. Legion of Three Worlds is still up there with my favorite Legion stories. (What the sprok happened to PZH Legion though Johns??? And Threeboot tbh?) And then Flashpoint. Ugh Flashpoint. If there was one single even that could cause me as much fustration as this event I haven't read it yet. (Even Convergence didn't. Actually I quite enjoyed it. Pre-Crisis Supergirl is A L I V E!) I think Flashpoint was the turning point. The universe was rebooted, the New 52 started and things went dark everywhere. Grief Barry. Way to sprok things up huh? And now with Rebirth the Legion is missing. Saturn Girl was last seen in Detective Comics and Brainiac 5 (a younger version of him at least but clearly him) was seen in JLA. There is a chance Saturn Girl will reappear in The Doomsday Clock event and who knows who will pop up in Metal (Cosmic Boy? Lightning Lad?) DC has said they are coming but as the weeks go by I worry. Where are my Legionaires? That is the reason for this blog/DA. I am creating my own Legion, one that I can use to tell my own stories with. Fan fiction is great for helping one work through problems and that is what I am going to do. This is my Legion Rebirth. Long Live the Legion.
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I am honestly a bit... confused how the Dox bloodline in conjunction with the Brainiac title works on Colu because there are two contradictions that seem to cancel each other out. Also I have suspicions that have little evidence but I ramble about anyway.
What the comics are consistent on is that there is a very clear line of succession with the Brainiac Title; it goes simply 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 all under the surname of Dox and it is passed from generation to generation. Keep in mind, I am referring to the PZH reboot here.
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Legion of Super-Heroes (1989) #119
Mon-El: You should have seen his great-grandfather! Gear: He's still alive? Mon-El: I doubt it... But we haven't seen him in a thousand years.
This scan is a little blurry but in this issue they talk about Querl (Brainiac 5) and his ancestor (Brainiac 2) as being his direct great-grandfather. This suggest that between Querl and Vril there really was only 2 others and no more.
We already know that Vril Dox II had his son Lyrl who took up the name Brainiac 3 on his own accord and with this clear line it makes sense that at some point he had Querl's mother Brainiac 4.
Because Coluans live for centuries it is not impossible that Lyrl had his daughter late or that Coluans simply created her from his own genetic material, there is no limit as to how she was born. Also ngl it is absolutely within the realm of possibilities that Brainiac 4 could have just been created to serve a roll and Lyrl didn't intentionally have any children.
That is all speculation however and shouldn't be considered as any sort of canon.
Where things about this clear line get weird though is earlier in the series when Querl talks about his family history with Colu.
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Legion of Super-Heroes (1989) #77
Querl: Many years passed before the bloodline resettled on the home-world -- and toiled for the planetary interest. Secretly loathed by the jealous normals we served... ... We were nevertheless treated as royalty, or state property... until the Brainiac 4 scandal and the governments subsequent destruction of all related records.
With how Querl talks about the series of events he seems to be either implying that after Lyrl there were more generations until eventually one decided to come back to Colu where then they were subjected to varying degrees of treatment.
The theory that Brainiac 4 was created by Colu instead of actively pursued by Lyrl sort of holds when you find out that after she abandoned Querl at birth the government just purged her records entirely - perhaps out of shame or just to cover up that they might have made some sort of error in her creation (it was Vril's fault actually but no one knows that yet).
But ignoring that the above seems to imply that after Lyrl, there may have been more generations and which case if there were... why were there only a couple more Brainiacs?
The other interpretation is that Lyrl himself came back to Colu eventually and because Coluans live for centuries this is not impossible. Querl could have been referring to that Lyrl was treated as royalty while his mother and himself were treated as property (because maybe Brainiac 4 was no intentionally born).
Honestly because Coluans can live for centuries I feel like it is absolutely possible that the line really did only have 5 generations.
The harder sell to this is begging the question WHY Lyrl would ever go back to Colu due to events in R.E.B.E.L.S. (2009) solidifying that he'd probably rather eat light bulbs every day than go back - but that Lyrl was only a teenager and a lot can change in centuries.
The other option is Vril Dox II had more children himself and the line just picked up, perhaps ignoring that Lyrl called himself Brainiac 3, and Lyrl is not even counted as an official Brainiac but again that is entirely unsupportive speculations.
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have any random losh hcs?
👀 A few... Some of them I have explored here on other posts and others in various fanfic but I'll collect them here. Note, all of these focus on PZH.
1.) Jan is gender fluid. His people, the Trommites, celebrate change and thus Jan being gender fluid was regarded with great joy and embraced fully.
2.) Also on the Trommites, their society in general practices a high amount of polyamory or changes in romantic/sexual partners. It is considered normal and healthy for them to experience many different people and emotions and relationships. As a result a queer relationship to them would be staunch monogamy. Their attitudes towards queer relationships are regarded with curiosity and not hostility or fear.
3.) If Querl isn't in the lab (rarely) you might be able to find him dancing.
4.) Lyle and Tinya have absolutely messed with combining their powers when bored; she can phase through objects and people, and he can make various layers of his body. Once, (once) they made a horrifying chimera of themselves and decided to play a prank on Querl and Jo by running into whatever room they were in screaming that they had 'an accident' and had been spliced together. Both Jo and Querl shrieked and hit pitches that should have only been capable by Lori Morning. It took a long time for either to forgive them.
5.) Gates purrs.
6.) Luornu does consider Querl to be her brother given that she was taken in by Brande and so was he. Granted, they did not spend a whole lot of time with each other (she rarely saw him at all) they still share that Brande took them in. If you pay attention in the comics they do have a pretty close relationship.
7.) Once Andrew got comfortable with everyone sometimes he'd just LIE about facts from the 90s just to see their reactions. It eventually became a game where he'd come up with two truths about his birth time and then one lie and everyone would have to guess what it was like "Blue raspberry was a flavor that came from actual blue raspberries" or "back then cucumber skins were poisonous and you had to peel them"
8.) Because the hard ground of the headquarters 'hurt Gates' feet', Chuck put in special little grass paths all throughout their compound so he didn't have to rely on his powers all the time and could, if he wanted to, just take a stroll.
9.) Everyone loves hugs from Candi and Jeka.
10.) Jenni out of all them frightens the easiest but she is actually one of the most courageous and will still do what she must even though she is terrified. This is also a bit of a contrast to no-fear Bart Allen. She cannot do a scary movie without screaming, hiding her eyes, jumping and spilling her popcorn. However if any of her friends are in danger or peril, that fear sort of washes away and she turns into a terrifying cyclone that cannot be stopped. Bart's fear response spikes when his friends are in danger so they're sort of mirrors and opposites.
11.) I just like all of the 'aliens' just being alien and not being quite so human looking even if they are seeded humans. To me it's just lazy to paint a human green, or pink, or blue and then claim "behold an alien!" but this isn't really a hc.
12.) As a result I think Imra has hooves and a very fawn-like face.
13.) Every single Legionnaire is one of Jenni's lightning rods. In particular Ayla, Mon-el, Rokk, Gates and Zoe.
14.) Rokk proposes to Garth at least once a week, it's a running gag between them. Garth always tells him no.
15.) I do favor Brande being Vril Dox II's Durlan even though the reboot sort of obliterated that, I just think it adds something.
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rebootchill · 10 months
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Bored and want to do a LoSH poll, this one is a toughie
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hello! you post a lot about LOSH + adjacent comics and i've been really meaning to get into them for like... years at this point. do you have recommendations for a good starting point, or a link to a guide that you think just about covers it?
Hi there! I am so glad you are interested in getting into LOSH.
When it comes to LOSH, it can be pretty confusing where to start due to all of the times they have been rebooted and everyone has their favorite version. For me my favorite team is known as the Post-Zero Hour Reboot Team, sometimes called Earth-247, or the 90s LOSH. For me this team ties more into the comics that I love and connect to and I simply appreciate how this run was handled over some others - but this is a matter of taste.
I did make a PZH LOSH reading guide here a couple weeks ago
There is also this behemoth of a reading guide HERE if you wanted to attempt to tackle... everything....
I hope this helps you and I hope you enjoy this series and fall in love with some of these characters.
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ok taking you up on that "hit me up whenever" what would be your ideal family dynamic between the Brainiacs, not strictly cannon but what you think would make the most sense for each of the characters to tell the best story? -Brainiacs anon
I honestly would like it to circle back to Vril's own trauma with his father and remembering that he earnestly wants to do better but because of the way he is, because of the history between him and Lyrl (and Stealth) that is very hard. Almost all of them have issues with emotions and expressing emotions in healthy ways so it's a powder keg of messed up dynamics just own its own without any headcanons going on.
I don't need to touch them to make it interesting.
I think Vril and Lyrl should have this standoffish relationship (as hinted in the end of R.E.B.E.L.S. 2009) where they both acknowledge the other but have a hard time actually bonding but are curious about having that bond. They meet up with each other every now and then and save each other's asses from whatever mess they got themselves into and sometimes beat each other up - it's just how this family is.
Maybe later when Vril can admit he wants to have a relationship with Lyrl but can't bring himself to say it out loud he reaches out to him by forwarding insane science articles as an excuse to talk to him - he always has to have some sort of excuse to make contact because like hell he's going to admit for real he just wants to hear his voice.
As for the other collective Brainiacs and their realationship that gets sort of mushy because LOSH has had so many reboots Querl's parent changes and thus his dynamic.
I am a sucker for the PZH team however and I am actually pretty satisfied with how canon told the story between Querl and his mother. Their dynamic is interesting and tells a complete story, even if she never showed up again.
Querl and Vril Dox II have an interesting dynamic which I wish we got to see more of rather than Vril just... saving him and making snarky comments.
We do get to see how Vril attempts to comfort Querl, so there is some genuine affection and softness he has towards him.
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Vril: don't let them get to you, these guys fucking suck let's jet.
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DC Showcase '96 #12
I think if Vril ever had a more consistent relationship with Querl he might try to be... exceedingly good to him out of perhaps guilt for helping to ruin his life. If he ever found out about his mother. It would be an interesting story, and an interesting one if Querl ever found out that it was his fault.
There could be conflict, their could be lots of great emotions flung around, the question would come up of "Are you only like this because you are guilty or you genuinely care?"
Might be a fanfic for later.
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My favorite thing while working on my LoSH fan reboot is giving Cosmic Boy and Brainiac 5 the dynamic of "Mutually cannot stand each other, however they work together incredibly well when forced to"
That's definitely them. Querl and Rokk both have personalities that most people I think would just have a hard time getting along with - between Rokk's authoritarian leadership approach doubled with blatant favoritism and Querl's low empathy and general blunt crassness it's a cocktail that drives people off. But together they work okay because Querl doesn't take Rokk personally or seriously and Querl, at the end of the day, does follow orders mostly.
Lyle however just won't follow orders or he will find loopholes and it drives Rokk insane bc he cannot get Lyle to bend to him completely (in the PZH run one of Lyle's reasons for creating Espionage Squad was bc of Rokk iirc).
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i plan on reading legion after i finish superboy (might take a while bc i cant focus enough) is there any background information/ issues i should read first ive read imp ang yj '98 and understand the basic concept of the legion
LOSH is sort of like Impulse that you can just jump right in, so for the PZH LOSH you just pick up your #0 issues and begin, there is no need to start anywhere else (and there aren't any other comic appearances to start at anyway) because this is a fresh reboot.
Having a basic concept of them is a GREAT start and I hope you expand your knowledge about this team and fall in love with them every bit that I did.
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If you had the chance to fix the Bendisboot Legion (either via retcon or making sure they never came to be to begin with) how would you go about it? Personally, I’d introduce another event like Zero Hour to not only wipe them out from existence, but also establish them as being fakes. Then I’d reintroduce the group that Clark, Kara, and Kon were a part of.
Honestly I wouldn't just erase them like that. But I would do something that might make all LOSH fans a little happier (or outraged idk).
What I would do is establish them as literally another reality that throughout DC's multiple reboots and travels through realities sort of formed a mushy connection to.
We find out that at some point during the 1000 years separating the 21st century and the 31st century something happened that punched holes in the fabric of spacetime and it makes the connection between the two... slippy. So the Bendisboot is literally a future of another reality that for whatever reason the timeline got snagged onto and it's only a matter of time before it shifts to another one.
Doing this establishes that ALL of the other LOSH versions are out there somewhere still, they were not erased from existence, they did not suddenly become irrelevant, they just got blown off track. So your favorite LOSH still exists, somewhere, they are reachable but you need to find the right track to get to them.
I could probably explain this with more eloquence and finesse but to give a basic rundown of it that's what I would establish and then... I would either make a new team or bring back a select team that might have more relevant stories.
It would be EASY to just say "bring back the PZH" team BUT Geoff Johns decided to make some... decisions with Final Crisis (Zoe was killed by Superboy Prime, Jenni and Gates fucked off to another reality etc).
Honestly it would be one clusterfuck of a time warping reality bending event that would need a diagram to explain and pull off so it would be easier to try again with a new team or just bring one back and ignore canon, which is no different from what other writers do.
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Hi, what series do you recommend to start reading LOSH?
I would really recommend the Post-Zero Hour (Earth 247) reboot team personally as it is my favorite and it ties in with my preferred DC run. It is everything that Teen Titans v3 should have been but never was. It has nice peaks and valleys, character development, fun soft moments all paired with sensible peril. It's not faultless, but I think if you are a fan of Young Justice you will enjoy PZH LOSH.
To begin reading it's a little convoluted. There were TWO comic titles following the same team. Legion of Super Heroes (1989) and Legionnaires.
To start reading you read Legion of Super Heroes (1989) #0, then go to Legionnaires #0, after that skip all the way to LOSH (1989) #62 then alternate to Legionnaires #19. After that you will be skipping back and forth to the series' completion and then it continues on in Legion Lost (ow), Legion Worlds then The Legion.
Happy reading and I hope this helps.
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(same guy who asked earlier). I’m sorry, but WHAT is going on with the Legion that we go from the intro issue, to like, number 60?? I’m so lost 😭😭
Basically Legion of Super-Heroes had a reboot when Crisis on Infinite Earths ended and the series 'restarted' in 1989 (several comics restarted after this event). Issue #1 for Legion of Super-Heroes (1989) has a publication date of 1989. This time period before the PZH reboot is known as Legion of Super-Heroes: Five Years Later which takes place from 1989-1994.
Then Zero Hero hit and the future shifted again thus warranting a new reboot in 1994 where instead of cancelling the current books, DC just started over with Issues #0 and then continuing on in the current publications.
It seems like issues #0 would logically come before issues #1 but they didn't, their publication dates are in 1994.
I hope this makes sense...
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rebootchill · 1 month
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I'm just not sure if I am a bad legion fan if I say I don't really want to see the original older guys? Let me explain...
I read all the versions, now I associate the reboots themselves as a part of LoSH tradition. Like TMNT or Transformers, many versions are each special in their specific ways. What I would prefer is the OG losh adults be mentors to a new team. Not made unimportant and set to the background but to also not feel so alienating and in the center to a viewer that probably isn't 40 or with kids yet. Use their children I mean.
Garth and Imra canonical have made like 4 kids with both their powers alone (one kid can transform into a titan monster). Other legionnaires could also have kids too. I'm just saying if they want to really update the brand, they should incorporate a younger team that has close ties to the originals and make them the center focus, they also want to make their own names for themselves as heroes. They're like the PZH losh in spirit in a way.
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