#altana shouyou

[soppymilkgin]

thinking about a drawing i saw on twitter a while ago its such a good concept

wound licking explanation for gin-san's shounen-typical fast recovery and ability to survive countless life-threatening injuries via canon altana magic logic transferred through such a gintoki-core mundane act of care and reciprocation of kindness

reinforcing the "meeting you was a blessing" in spite of your demonhood, because of your demonhood

#it has been living in my head for so long #go eat that altana gin-chan #sakata gintoki #yoshida shouyou #words

[joelletwo]

way too late to be articulating this thought but every time i loop hayloft and see the goofy utsuro!takasugi->oboro!takasugi noooo lil sibling dont kill sensei by killing sensei. kill sensei by killing ourselves. convolution. i am more and more fueled into getting as stupid as i can in my gntm postcanon lol. takasugi's eye has always been fine and he crawled out of that tower miraculously alive. so did oboro. separately. bc they. separately. uno reverse took over shouyou and utsuro's bodies respectively. all the other altana bodies in the terminal died for real tho so shouyoutsuro did as well. so whos that baby? why its my good friend shouyou(tsuro. theyre integrating.) the fourth :)

and the shouyou body takasugi took over just had a normal ass stab wound thats easy street hes fine now. but the utsuro body oboro took over was 1. largely metaphorical 2. also stabbed 3. more importantly underwent ego death something bad. so oboro's still on borrowed time he just gets enough to hang out with everyone until they get bored of him after a month and then he goes crawls in the woods and dies. one more time

#sopping wet gintoki posting #oboro gets to play peekaboo w baby shouyou and then get his ass kicked sparring w child shouyou #and they spend a lot of time playing. throws a dart at the wall. stardew valley together. #one must imagine a postcanon altana being that can function like um that one village in mushishi #that was just reincarnating every ancestor as a descendant. however that worked #shouyou baby 4 gets to live a full life and then die and then get reborn as a new guy. no more shouyou except by lineage of #being raised by descendants of the same takes-a-village that shouyou baby 4 did #so the Cycles continue but the suffering gets diluted a bit instead of concentrated into one insane guy #moths in sinks #<- I GUESS? im avoiding altana baby sugi there so that the tkgn wont be weird but is it less weird if sugi used to be shouyou. #i mean its LESS weird than a sugi who grew up renesmee fast to come be with his boyfriends again. but still weird. #handwaves. all the bodyswapping was negotiated and agreed to in the altana mind palace lobby. shouyou vacated the premises. #just gave him a blood transfusion basically. everything transplant. ship of theseus'd him.

[yu-sigao]

I just finished Gintama and I'm still in awe. It's been a day and I still don't know how to collect my words of how deeply this anime struck me.

Utsuro was a beautiful villain. The way I interpret him is that he is almost pure yin - cold, dark, destructive, and all consuming, like, well, an 虚 ("utsuro", void.) But in East Asian cosmology, while yin is death, it is also fertility. It is the feminine component of the universe and required for land and animals to reproduce. So within a field of yin, there will always be a seed of yang.

This seed of yang is of course, Yoshida Shouyou. Just as yin inevitably grows yang, Utsuro talks of Shouyou's emergence as inevitable in episode 328.

"The one that hated humans, the one that feared humans, and the one that longed to be human... They were all me. It was inevitable that he would appear to stop them. The only Utsuro that stood up to Utsuro."

He even usually wears white compared to the black of Utsuro's cloak. Shouyou is warm, kind, nurturing, and active; it's said he never stopped fighting against Utsuro, even if at first he lost. And arguably that fighting is what got him killed. Utsuro slays him internally as Gintoki slays him externally, and when his body is burned in fire - a classic symbol of yang - Utsuro reemerges. The seed has sprouted, grown, withered, and returned back to fertilise the earth. Yang flows back into yin.

What I find interesting is the decidedly feminine metaphors that Oboro and Utsuro himself use to describe the formation of his different personas. He is said to have "given birth" to countless versions of himself (again also from episode 328), which further strengthens the association between Utsuro and yin.

This is not the first time a birthing/maternal metaphor has been used in Gintama. Consider Shouyou's speech to a child Gintoki:

"There's no difference between a monster and the child of a monster. They are both inhuman beings that are only born within a bloody pool of sin. And a monster's sword cannot cut another monster. So, Gintoki, stop trying to grow stronger by imitating me... You have to grow stronger than me by using your own sword, the sword of a human." - (episode 317.)

If in this metaphor, Utsuro is the parent and Shouyou is the offspring, then what does that make Shouyou? Shouyou subtly implies he considers himself a monster. Is this true? If you view Shouyou as a parental figure to Gintoki, Katsura, and Takasugi, then what does that make them?

Gintoki was called a corpse eating demon as a child, and by the time he was fighting in the Joui wars and forced to execute Shouyou, he had not shed that reputation. He instead became known as the Shiroyasha - white demon. Clothed in the colours of yang like his master who longed to be human, but a monster nonetheless. And a monster's sword cannot cut another monster. That is why when Gintoki kills Shouyou, Utsuro is born, and the cycle starts anew. It is only after 300+ episodes of character development that he becomes human, and can put an end to Utsuro.

"The people here must be what you were to me. Just as the eternal monster from that day became human by meeting you... Meeting you kids, the little monster with sad eyes from that day has also become human, hasn't he?" - (Shouyou to Gintoki in Gintama: The Final.)

But the cycle is never over. A baby implied to be Takasugi's reincarnation is born in the Altana gates at the end. At first I thought this was a cheap trick, and that Sorachi only did this to keep fans happy, but it does fit the theme of eternity and neverending cycles.

Gintama, to me, is about cycles, and the difference between productive and unproductive cycles. The Naraku's name refers to a sort of Buddhist hell, and they dress like Buddhist monks. The relevance of the Buddhist theme of reincarnation in regards to Utsuro's story should be obvious. But instead of a march towards enlightenment, Utsuro's numerous lifetimes are more like an ouroboros eating it's own tail. He did unto others what was done unto him, escalating into a plot to destroy Earth, which got him nowhere but perpetuating pointless samsara. He destroys himself as he begets himself, experiencing moral degradation and isolation as he shies away from even his other selves.

Or a cycle can be like making a philosopher's stone, which is what Gintoki experienced: a process of continuous refinement that produces objects of further and further purity. To use Buddhist terms, enlightenment is an ongoing process. The work of becoming human takes as long as your life will. And Gintoki is made human by his relationships with Shinpachi, Kagura, and every single person he met over the course of the story, while Utsuro remained so focused on himself, he destroyed his other selves.

Utsuro recognises his mistake upon his death:

"Humans are hollow beings. But because they know that, they take root in the heart of others, never fading, even after death, and continue to live forever, is it?" - (Gintama: The Final)

His hollowness and eternity did not have to mean all this pain. He denied the version of himself, Shouyou, that went against his omnicidal death wish, and was life giving instead. In giving life, Shouyou became mortal, and was given death. In death, Shouyou became more influential and powerful than Utsuro, having touched the heart of people who would come back to defeat him. The immortal becomes mortal becomes immortal. Yin flowing back into yang flowing back into yin.

In the end, everything goes back to where it started, yet everything is new again. The Yorozuya are back, and Edo is still Edo, even as Tokyo looms on the horizon. I can only hope for the baby we see at the end, that if they are immortal, they will have a kinder life than Utsuro/Shouyou did. That they will be more human than monster. The monster's child became human, after all.

#gintama #gintama meta #gintama spoilers #utsuro gintama #yoshida shouyou #i love utsuro and this is my love letter to him

[reductionisms]

tama math vol. 1

prop: takasugi is locally homeomorphic* to tama. (⇔takasugi can be "related" with tama, but not all of tama can be "related" with takasugi) *roughly

I outline the proof.

case 1: fuyo arc

(i) clearly tama and takasugi are both missing their left eyes. there are two further relations. (ii) no. 502/professor hayashi "takes control again" of tama/fuyo and uses her to attack shinpachi, just as utsuro "takes control" of takasugi and uses him to attack shouyou. (iii) tama restrains no.502 so that gintoki can kill him, just as takasugi restrains utsuro so that gintoki can kill him. in (ii), the person attacked is someone important to tama/takasugi. this satisfies the "equivalence". (ii) implies that no. 502 and utsuro are also "equivalent" (homeomorphic). further, that no. 502≅utsuro is necessary to prove (iii). without taking the time to discuss this rigorously (it's probably obvious), i introduce it as a lemma. case 1 lemma 1: no. 502≅utsuro (locally)

additional "equivalences": (i) no. 502 and utsuro are both other selves of a "parent figure" (i use this for lack of better terminology) who has been swallowed by them. (ii) fuyo and the final both end in the terminal. (iii) no. 502 and utsuro are seemingly undefeatable because of their regenerative ability; this is solved by pushing them into the terminal's altana. we notice that no. 502 and utsuro don't align perfectly. here, they align just enough to draw a local "equivalence" (an "equivalence" that holds only for certain areas/times/places). some questions remain. Q1.1.1 if tama≅takasugi, then why is takasugi not present with yorozuya and shouyou? A1.1.1 because he's become gintoki/gintoki's sword. he's there by metaphysics and ontology

Q1.1.2 if no. 502≅utsuro, why is utsuro not present with yorozuya and shouyou ⇔ why is utsuro defeated beforehand? A1.1.2 in no. 502's dying moments, he becomes professor hayashi again A.1.1.2 is fairly straightforward. A.1.1.1 can be shown in more detail.

case 1 lemma 2: tama's death in fuyo ≅ takasugi death (locally)

i had no desire (nor, frankly, ability) to grab equivalent moments from the final. suffice to say that anyone well-versed in gintama sword theo-ontology and/or gintama human ontology/philosophical anthropology should understand. takasugi becomes gintoki's sword; gintoki, the human, carries others inside his soul (his sword); takasugi is inside gintoki's soul. this is how he dies. this lemma leads us into the next case: tama's second death.

case 2: kintoki arc

there's little to say. (i) tama first sequence is request->sad face->"pathetic", while takasugi first sequence is sad face->request->"pathetic"; a permutation. (ii) tama second sequence is next-time-we-meet->gintoki's promise->i'll hold you to it and takasugi second sequence is next-time/promise (i'll come to hell for you)->i'll hold you to it; an "equivalence". (i) tama's request is different from takasugi's; she wants to see gintoki's face, who is crying, while takasugi asks for gintoki’s smile. but the elements are the same: calling gintoki “pathetic”, request to see gintoki's face, and gintoki's tears. here tama and takasugi permute. with extra mathematical book-keeping and extreme abuse of notation we can call these some sort of "equivalent" (don't ask me why. or, if you do, give me a few days). (ii) gintoki doesn't promise tama and takasugi the same thing, but again, the elements are the same (this time in the same order): meet again->some sort of promise->affirmation ("i'll hold you to it"/"bring it on"). another sort of "equivalent" with similar mathematical abuses. more abstractly, we have:

case 2 corollary 1: homeomorphism of the "good" death

for both tama and takasugi, there is a proper way to die. gintoki respects this in both cases. their deaths are therefore "equivalent".

case 3: bfy

(i) left eye. (ii) at this point in bfy, gintoki lives in a world where no one knows or remembers him-- that is, he's completely alone-- because he killed himself in the past to save the world; compare with post-cliff (shouyou=gintoki). (iii) tama is now the only person who remembers gintoki and his sacrifice. she remembers him because she "is" a camera, because she "records". ⇔ takasugi is the one who reveals gintoki's past, that is within his left eyelid, that he watched. (iv) from kintoki arc, we know that tama records with her eyes. ⇔ the eye, the eyelid.

case 4: "reincarnation"

when tama's head is recovered, and "resurrected/reincarnated" post-terminal death in fuyo, tama remembers next to nothing; otose says she's "like a baby". after tama's "death" in silver soul, gengai makes a child tama to record what's going on while tama sleeps. so we have that tama deaths generally imply tama births (in 2/3 cases); and then there's the baby in 704. who knows what that baby is, or should be. perhaps one use of the tama/takasugi local homeomorphism is a proof of the baby's plausible existence. i reserve judgement on this case.

case 5: tama

this is half corollary, half unproven proposition. but it deserves consideration. tama's name, in fuyo, is equivocated with egg (tamago), head (atama), testicles (kintama), ball (tama) and soul (tamashii-- the kanji's pronunciation can be shortened to just tama). gintama likes to equivocate several of these tamas whenever it can. this collapses into an eventual equivocation with the soul (which is by turns mundane, lewd, and disgusting); and tama is unique among robots because she has a soul, the seed, a human soul. she is, quite literally, a, the, soul. gintama also loves to say sword=soul. gintoki's sword is his soul, and by equivalence class, gintoki's soul is the soul of everyone. gintoki's sword becomes takasugi⇒ takasugi becomes (was already) gintoki's soul ⇒ tama is the soul ⇒ tama = takasugi. you can't really abuse math and narrative like this. i'll stop for now.

proposition: tama is locally homeomorphic to gintoki

notably, i didn't consider tama quest arc or other tama ≅ gintoki moments. that is for tama math volume 2.

(this romanization of “tama” is almost a permutation of “math”. :) )

#gintama #this is enough abuse of notations and concepts to last me several years. #forgive the alg textbook format. it just kinda happened.

[suchine-toki]

Thoughts about Nobume

I’ve seen debate regarding the use of the Emotionless Girl trope in her, something that’s overused at best, lazy writing at worst. Personally, I think it depends on how the trope is developed rather than its use in a work of any kind.

Nobume is introduced quite late in the Baragaki arc with an interesting character design, wearing her clothes differently despite being a uniform (unlike the Shinsengumi). Additionally, we learn other things about her: she’s a great fighter, she has a close relationship with Isaburou, and she likes donuts.

Later she would appear again in Courtesan of a Nation arc, in which her more comic side would be explored. Here it would be shown that Nobume is Princess Soyo’s bodyguard and that she has great chemistry with the Yorozuya and Tsukuyo, participating in their schemes and helping them even though it wasn’t necessary.

It would also explore a bit of her past, for one, revealing that she was one of Naraku's three feathers when she was a child. While it’s perfectly feasible in this series that she was strong from childhood, that seemed a bit overkill to me. Rather than highlighting how powerful she was, it shows how incompetent the others were.

On the other hand, it would be revealed she was a student of Shouyou. I like this idea and it doesn’t seem too far-fetched to me; however, it would’ve been more interesting if something had happened with that. Nobume is usually forgotten when talking about the Shouka Sonjuku students and I think it’s because her story doesn’t connect very well with the others.

But her most important moment as a character was undoubtedly in Farewell Shinsengumi arc, in which she faces Sougo (again) and Kagura, an encounter in which she acknowledges she didn’t want to fight them, and then mourns the loss of Isaburou, who was like a father to her. This is why I believe it depends on how the trope develops, the transition from coldness to warmth.

Finally, although her role was later limited to being an infodump about Utsuro, the altana and other plot points, I liked that during the second part of Silver Soul arc she was shown to continue as Soyo’s bodyguard, but beyond that, as her friend. Like her companions did with their teacher, Nobume found someone to protect.

#Gintama #Imai Nobume #Happy Birthday! #almost forgot lol #I can write #Thoughts about #my post #There's also that Momotaro chapter but it didn't do anything for her as far as I can remember lol

[averagelonelypotato]

listen wings au

where smolboro didn’t really have strong wings but when he got the altana blood it gave his wings strength and stuff. So Utsuro/Shouyou would like help groom his wings and get the knots out and also show off their huge wings to oboro and let the child touch his wings and groom and take out the knots as well. Anyway the first time Oboro was ever able to fly with his wings was when he sacrificed his life to stop the naraku coming after Shouyou

#idk that much about wing fics/au's but i hope y'all get the vision #gintama oboro #Yoshida Shouyou

[hopeldx]

If Shouyou is the product of the earth's Altana ，Oboro is just like the product of moon's Altana.

Moon would always be loyal to earth and protect earth.

And so does Oboro.

#gintama oboro

[teatitty]

Drives me absolutely crazy that when Sorachi was asked if Takasugi lived or died at the end his response was basically "I honestly didn't think much about it I just wanted to end the series with as many gags as possible" because on one hand it's super on brand for him to do that but on the other I simply think that, given Sakamoto's words about Shouyou protecting his students, I can't help imagining an alternative, less ambiguous ending wherein Shouyou used the altana to fully revive Takasugi instead or something

I have a vision and I need to enact it

#rant tag #in general I just think a lot about that final chapter #and how sakamoto so perfectly understood shouyou #and his desire to protect his students #putting it all into a letter to gintoki to give him peace #for all he didn't really know the guy #it's fascinating that sakamoto had the clearest understanding of him

[hd2x]

Two years have passed following the Tendoshuu's invasion of the O-Edo Central Terminal. Since then, the Yorozuya have gone their separate ways. Foreseeing Utsuro's return, Gintoki Sakata begins surveying Earth's ley lines for traces of the other man's Altana. After an encounter with the remnants of the Tendoshuu—who continue to press on in search of immortality—Gintoki returns to Edo. Later, the regrouped Shinsengumi and Yorozuya begin an attack on the occupied Central Terminal. With the Altana harvested by the wreckage of the Tendoshuu's ship in danger of detonating, the Yorozuya and their allies fight their enemies while the safety of Edo—and the rest of the world—hangs in the balance. Fulfilling the wishes of their teacher, Shouyou Yoshida's former students unite and relive their pasts one final time in an attempt to save their futures.

[the-anime-haven]

Gintama Stills for Every (Canon) Episode → [365/316] “Salvation”

↳ “So you and I were both working toward the same goal in different places, huh? We worried, hesitated, and in the end, we couldn't change a thing. But isn't that enough? Sensei and you have suffered more than enough. If you wanna save him, go ahead. You can do that now. Let's just go save what we couldn't back then. Let's save Sensei from them and his cursed fate. This time for sure!”

#gintama stills #gintama #sakata gintoki #Shimura Shinpachi #kagura #takasugi shinsuke #yoshida shouyou #utsuro #Katsura Kotarou #shijaku #okita sougo #shiroyasha #altana liberation army #tendoshu #tenshouin naraku #yorozuya #yorozuya gin-chan #silver soul arc #source:crunchyroll

[shiroyasha-01]

Es demasiado triste que tenga que revivir lo mismo nuevamente el pobre Gintoki..., una tristeza y una carga que no tiene fin, como la vida de Utsuro. El tema es que me gustaría saber la real conexión que hay entre ellos dos. Saber el pasado de Gin de antes de conocerlo, y saber el porque deambulaba sólo en medio de los campos de batalla sobreviviendo siempre. LECCIÓN 680

#gintama #gintama manga #sakata gintoki #gintoki #shiroyasha #utsuro #Yoshida Shouyou #naraku #altana

[soppymilkgin]

was reading penguindrum analysis and this notgr quote is so shouyou AGH

"Even if my life has been meaningless, let my death be of help to others. Burn my body so that it may become a beacon, to light the way for others as they search for true happiness."

- Night on the Galactic Railroad, translation by Julianne Neville

#shouyou in the final wishing his students hadn't experienced so much pain by virtue of being his students #using the altana in his heart to save everyone and protecting gin-san's current family from the explosion #his heart dissolving in gin-san's hand and becoming a star in the sky #🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂 #yoshida shouyou

[joelletwo]

double checks that the tumblr video limit is now 10 minutes. edits this down as much as i can stand and lets the takasugi altana scene roll bc this is for me. episodes 364-365 funny moments (shouyou baby tumbling down a hill to an explosion is a ytp to me)

#sopping wet gintoki posting #videos

[milesmoerales]

i’ve been thinking about this a lot: takasugi resembles kouka in a lot ways. they parallel each other, in my honest opinion. warnings: this post may contain spoilers and be biased since i love both takasugi and kouka. also, this is mostly my gushing hahaha

1. appearance

takasugi and kouka smoke a kiseru, have green eyes (kouka’s eyes are more likely teal), and are 5′7 feet tall. they also have alluring auras and share calm exteriors.

2. how they cope with loneliness

lonely people are more likely to smoke. there’s a causal link between the prolonged experience of loneliness and smoking. the loneliness appears to lead to an increased likelihood of smoking behavior. as we all know, both takasugi and kouka are usually seen smoking kiseru.

they both like solitude, but they’re also lonely. takasugi’s loneliness is caused by shouyou’s death and kouka’s is caused by her endless life and i believe smoking a kiseru is how they cope with loneliness because smoking may provide short-term relief of stress and anxiety.

3. takasugi-kamui and gintoki-kagura are likely mirroring kouka-kamui and kankou-kagura

kamui respects takasugi a lot. i mean he isn’t type of character who gets along easily with people, but he’s drawn to takasugi (despite he wanted to “kill” him the first time they met).

kamui barely gives a damn about other people except he cares a lot about his mother, kouka. it’s kind of surprised me when kamui (and harusame 7th division) took takasugi who’s in his comatose state to rakuyou and kamui also saved him when he’s about to fall from the cliff.

while the relationship between kagura and gintoki, it’s obvious the way kagura treats gintoki as her earth father. there’s a plenty of scenes when gintoki parallels kankou. also, kamui doesn’t respect gintoki the way he respects takasugi. kamui always has desire to kill gintoki (imo, aside from being strong samurai, the reason kamui wants to kill gintoki because he kind of reminds him of his father?).

4. sorachi uses flowers metaphors to describe takasugi and kouka

for takasugi is sakura (his yukata in the early manga is sakura patterns) and for kouka is bay flower.

sakura is commonly associated with samurai and its blooming season is described as powerful, glorious and intoxicating, but tragically short-lived. sakura really represents takasugi's life. he's powerful as a swordsman, people especially his subordinates admire him, but sadly he dies at such a young age after accomplishing his goals.

also, sorachi always associates takasugi with sakura petals. the image of falling sakura is meant to prelude the end of said flowers and it describes how takasugi lives, glorious yet short-lived.

while kouka is symbolized as bay flower because her name in kanji literally means bay flower. her name referencing how a flower that is picked will wither also referencing how when she left the planet and became ill.

5. takasugi has the same fate as kouka (and how takasugi/gintoki kind of resembles kouka/kankou) 

takasugi sacrifices himself to get his happy ending aka he wants gintoki to stop suffering and brings sensei, someone they love and respect a lot, back to life. he chooses to end his life as long as he’s by his best friend's side and the people he cares about are alive. takasugi is dying in gintoki’s arms.

it's the same how kouka sacrifices herself to be with her family. she chooses her own happy ending by living in her family's side rather than spend eternity living alone in a lonesome planet. kouka is dying is kankou’s arms.

takasugi happens to be an altana mutant just like kouka.

#at this point i believe takasugi and kouka are the same person lmao #not to mention kouka is lowkey tsundere just like takasugi????? #also dying in your partner's arms is soulmate thingz ya kno #kouka #takasugi shinsuke #kankou #kagura #kamui #sakata gintoki #should i tag this as gintaka or takagin ahahahah #gintama spoilers #gintama #oh also i copypaste this from my twitter so if anyone accidentally sae the thread it's morle likely mine #4 am here and im brainriotting kouka and takasugi #gintaka #otp: i have you and you have me #otp: die with me

[konboyblues]

one thing that baffles me is that sorachi had a resolution waiting RIGHT there, i mean the gorilla extended the goddamn manga by four extra volumes just to repeat the SAME plotline from silver soul, except this time gintoki wanna save his pappy. so now yoshida shouyou is somewhat mortal and liable to die cuz he dont got his crystal heart...... now where can homeboy go to make sure earth’s altana dont touch him again so he can die naturally and in peace.... i wonder who has SPACESHIP that can travel the UNIVERSE and make sure shouyou never touches down on earth ever again..... gee i wonder which bespectacled mofo with a perm can shelter shouyou while he lives out his natural life, AS GINTOKI AND TAKASUGI FOUGHT SO HARD TO MAKE TRUE I WONDER WHO WAS LITERALLY RIGHT THERE TO HELP RESOLVE A REHASHED PLOTLINE SO THIS GODFORSAKEN MANGA COULD END WHILE MAKING SOME KINDA SENSECOUGHTATSUMACOUGH

#make it make sense!!! #sakamoto tatsuma #sakata gintoki #yoshida shouyou #gintama #real talk #yorozuya blues

[moontheoretist]

Gintoki wielding the power of the Altana

Because we know so little of Gintoki's past before he met Shouyou, it could be very plausible that he has also been influenced by the Altana in some form. He could also be a child of other monsters, and as mentioned earlier by Shouyou: "Monsters and the children of monsters are the same." Sorachi intentionally brought in children of monsters when he did not need to, so there could be a significance there. Even the title of the chapter is the Monster and the Monster's Child. [...] This is all speculation of course, but the evidence points that there is something special about Gintoki.

It’s REALLY possible because of one thing that nobody mentioned earlier. Gintoki survived every tough battle, even when it looked like he died. Every single one of them. But the most important thing for me, as a major evidence, is his immunity to the White Plague virus from the second Gintama movie. 

He was the source of the illness, which killed a lot of people in Edo. He was the first person, who was affected by it. And it’s very important, because it happened during the Joui War, 20 years before the current action of Gintama. The thing what I want to say is that he should have died a LONG time ago. But he survived. 

Gintoki is not the same as Utsuro. He is not immortal, but he probably possesses a power of the Altana in some form. And he knows about it (in the manga and anime) or figured it out when he didn’t die, because of the virus (in the movie). It doesn’t matter. The most important thing is that he decided to hide (probably because he didn’t want to show others that virus can’t kill him) and wait for help of the only one person, who had the power to kill him. For himself from the past. Past Gintoki was the only hope for Future Gintoki, because he didn’t know that monsters born from Altana or someone who can wield the power of Altana can’t kill each other.

Also the movie gave a hint about that possibility when Gintoki decided to go to the past and kill himself, but his friends already were there to stop him from killing his past self and also prevent his past self from being affected by the virus. I think that it’s pretty convenient, because Gintoki couldn’t know that he isn’t able to kill himself, but the scenarists of the movie probably knew about it and wrote this plot twist in order to not break the world rules. (I may be wrong here, because the thing about inability to kill the monsters is referred to Utsuro and Shouyo as an ultimate monster, not to Gintoki. I only assumed that even if Gintoki isn’t immortal, he can’t kill himself because of the power of Altana, so correct me, if something sounds stupid).

#gintoki #sakata gintoki #gintama #gintama theory #gintama theories #altana #power of altana #my thoughts #utsuro #yoshida shouyou