#anti helaemond

[mhsdatgo]

The Helaemonds/Helaegons need to calm down.

Don't get me wrong, it's always refreshing to see some people fill in the gaps of a basically untold relationship such as the one between the green kids in general, but this goes beyond basic obsessive shippy discourse. Leave this poor girl alone. Why's there an obsession with having her be romantically paired with her brothers, one worse than the other?

I understand the show has basically shown so little of her to the point where we didn’t even have a coronation for her on screen, so therefore you can self insert through her and have fun with headcanons regarding Aegon and Aemond. Really, I'm not faulting their girlies, you can be head over heels for whatever actor in character you want (unless you put them on pedestals and start acting like they did nothing wrong and pounce on whoever contests them, THEN we have a problem) but I assure you, Helaena would barely want anything to do with either of them.

Aegon is a sex pest turned sex offender, a drunkard and a neglectful father and husband at best. Her infamous toast in ep.8 has us believing that he cannot for the life of him interact with her unless he's horny drunk or that he forces himself on her at worst.* He was ready to leave them all in ep.9 before he was caught. Even the book is subtle about their relationship: all we know of them is that they sleep in shared chambers, that she was someone important and reliable in Aegon's council before B&C, and that he named her and Alicent the true Queens of his reign.

*(⚠️TW: PERSONAL OPINION⚠️ I'm not saying this last one isn't a possibility but it's sill outrageous for the way people speak about Helaena in defence of this "claim". No, she wouldn't joke about her own r*pe in front of the whole table full of people she doesn't know and right beside her abuser, and despite the hour-long metas I've read about how she's basically "too sheltered" to know what r*pe even means, I assure you she's a high-functioning autistic, not 5 years old. She can understand it perfectly.)

Helaemond is a pure show invention, I honestly wasn't expecting this many people to go up this kind of train. They barely interact, and most of the time it's Aemond saying he'd "perform his duty" should Helaena ever be wed to him, or that stare in ep.9 when he enters her chambers toiling after Alicent. It's, as always, the Aemond girlies who think poor Helaena would live her best life with Aemond, or that they are already romantically involved behind the scenes. The amount of "if one possesses a thing, the other will take it away" edits from people that are FULLY CONVINCED "the thing" is Helaena and that "the one" and "the other" are Aemond and Aegon respectively is honestly concerning.

Fics that are all about Aegon doing the worst and unspeakable things to her so "Aemond can come and save her" are y'all okay? Out of all people, HE has to save her?

Babes, I'm sorry to break your bubble, but this isn't Aegon IV/Naerys/Aemon on steroids. Aemond didn't give two shits about Helaena. No, he wasn't jealous when Jace came to ask her to dance, he just wanted to stir some shit. If we talk about the books, he didn't fucking hesitate to leave King's Landing, his sister, his mother and whatever he was doing for the Riverlands the second he heard that Daemon was there. And he brought the only means of defence they had with him. If he knew how important Vhagar was for the city's defence, he's evil, if he didn't realize it, he's dumb as fuck. Which one is it, Aemond girlies?

People beat each other to the curb about Jaehaerys, Jaehaera and Maelor's paternity like it's the Wars of The Roses. They put Helaena and Alys against the other like they have personal beef with one of them.

Stop mentioning this sweetheart only when it's about praising or hating one of her brothers. No, it's not the only option you have because she's underdeveloped as a character. There's actually another one.

LEAVE HER THE FUCK ALONE.

#house of the dragon #fire and blood #helaena targaryen #pro helaena targaryen #helaena deserved better #aegon ii targaryen #aemond targaryen #anti helaemond #anti helaegon

[puffballlofdoom]

On "alysmond" and "helaemond"

For some reason, there’s a petty war going on between fierce “helaemond” and “alysmond” stans. Fr, I totally don’t understand why should those ships be mutually exclusive? If “helaemond” actually becomes the show canon, I can totally see Helaena breaking up with her brother-boyfriend after B’n’C. IMO Aemond’s recklessness and long-harbored, ill-concealed hatred for Luke , contributing to Jaehaerys’ tragic death is a reason enough for Hel to stay away from him, never mind how dear the siblings (with benefits) used to be to each other. In this scenario, Aeamond could pursue a relationship with Alys, never mind his previous (more or less romantic) engagement with Helaena…

In addition, if “helaemond” is confirmed, this subplot doesn’t necessary have to be some fabulous love story. I mean the siblings *may* have been getting along with each other pretty well , and I really enjoy the idea of young Aemond having a crush on his big sister. I find it really cute, that’s all. In my opinion teenage Aemond, doubtlessly familiar with the idea of “courtly love” (I’m guessing this concept could exist in the quasi-medieval Westeros), might have enjoyed performing the role of righteous knight, worshipping his “future queen” from afar , as if there was a “secret RPG session”, going on but in his head. Frankly speaking, the young !Knight Aemond and his !Lady Helaena don’t even have to get sexually involved and their “forbidden love” could remain just cute, childish crush, as the time goes by turning into mature friendship, mutual care and understanding. Perhaps older Aemond, driven with his sense of responsibility, would want to become a proprer father figure/ role model for his little nephews and niece? I like to think well-educated, smart  Aemond, familiar with the story of Daenys the Dreamer, and keeping his sister company more often than her joke of a husband, found out Hel was a Dragon Dreamer.

On the other hand, we cannot rule out Helaena and Aemond becoming lovers, but IMO such a scenario would be pretty dark. It seems to me it could happened only if the show version of Helaena remained childless after two or three years of marriage (yet again, I am speaking about the show counterpart of the FnB Helaena, who canonically bore the twins about a year after she had wed Aegon) and Aemond started to fear someone like Larys Strong would simply get rid of Hel, so that the WIDOWED crown prince could take another bride. So, Aemond shared his fears with his sister, and the siblings agreed they ought to cuckold Aegon in order to secure Helaena’s position as the future queen, and thusly save her life… It’s possible the righteous prince Aemond , loathing the mere idea of fathering bastards, could have secretly married his sister (it could have been a traditional Valyrian ceremony, which still wouldn’t make the whole situation any romantic).  However, even as a “secretly married” couple, who could grow to quite enjoy performing their “conjugal duty”,  Aemond and Helaena could remain but “siblings with benefits” (which sounds awful, but given they’re Targaryens, it kinda makes sense) and never develop romantic feelings for each other. In this scenario, they could be still sleeping together after Aegon’s heir had been born, just out of sheer need for comfort, closeness or affection, or simply willing to reduce stress, feel better or have fun.  Messed up as Helaena and Aemond seem, they could have perceived sex as yet another form of bonding…  Whatever could have been going on between the siblings, their breakup after Jaehaerys’ death appears inevitable.

 As far as Aemond’s relationship with Alys is concerned, I wouldn’t call it an overly romantic love story, either. Let’s say it out loud – in spite of her sharp wits, charms and whatnot, Alys was a prisoner of war and even if Aemond had fallen madly in love with her, I would risk saying she wasn’t in the position to truly reciprocate his feelings. Thanks to Alys’ good looks, the prince “generously” spared her life, there’s no two ways about it, BUT however “besotted” Aemond was with Alys, becoming his “war bride” literally meant she was chosen to be a freakin’ sex slave. In my honest opinion, the woman deserved better and I don’t believe she reciprocated his love. Alys certainly was not in the position to fully consent to be the prince’s paramour, although I can totally see Aemond developing genuine romantic feelings for her – however twisted it may sound. It seems to me in the very beginning, it was just about lust, but later on, the prince could have taken to the “witch” because of her personality and even become fascinated with her supernatural powers. Frankly speaking, I am not the fan of the “Alys casting a love spell on Aemond” theory. She might have been using her totally prosy, feminine charms in order to endear the prince to her, and thusly make sure she would be treated as well as she could possibly be under so dire circumstances. And no, I don’t mean Alys was just offering Aemond sexual favors. Intelligent person she no doubt was, the “witch queen” could do her best in order to forge an emotional bond with Aemond, too. For instance listening to what the prince had to say and showing him affection. Paradoxically, learning Aemond’s story could make Alys take to the prince at least a little, since in this scenario, she could realize in spite of coming from different social backgrounds, they shared a bunch of experiences. For instance, earlier in her life, unwed and pregnant Alys, born out of wedlock herself, had been no doubt an outcast – just like Aemond the Kinslayer, having blood of his close relative on his hands. Could it be a reason enough for Alys to start sympathizing with Aemond? Yes, indeed. In addition, the “witch” had lost both her child and their father – even if  we are not familiar with the details and the moment she met Aemond Alys was probably over it. If the “helaemond” theory is confirmed, Aemond gets involved with Alys when his first “girlfriend” is also like dead to the world, not to mention the fact his son and/or nephew died gruesome death.

Here, I would like to admit I am not a fan of fetishizing Alys’ age and deeming her a “milf”. The woman was certainly more than just her looks and age. If Aemond had actually loved her – which I find highly probable  - there must have been something more than just physical attraction! In addition, in the quasi-medieval world of Ice and Fire, girls in their early teens are considered eligible maidens, so in this universe, it isn’t out of usual for women in their late, if not mid-twenties to become grandmothers! Taking the fact FnB is supposed to be a historical source by a bunch of unreliable narrators, we don’t actually know how old Alys was. If we rule out the ageless witch/ red priestess theory, we could safely assume she was, for instance, in her 40s or 30s, but knowing the Westerosi customs, well, it is still possible she was just a few years older than then-twentyish Aemond. There is also an option Alys didn’t even exist and all the war bride/captor romance was made up by pro-Black maesters and scribes, willing to paint the prince in a negative light. After all making some lowly born wet nurse his wife, Aemond would insult House Baratheon, impudently breaking the pact which had to be sealed with his marriage to Lord Borros’ daughter. You just keep in mind both the Witch Queen and Aemond’s bastard son disappear  from the “historical chronicles” shortly after the Dance ends. In addition, stressing Alys’ alleged “old age”  could have made him look ridiculous in the eyes of Westerosi readers.

Personally, I prefer to imagine Alys existed, had prophetic skills and played a significant role in Aemond’s life. Perhaps at some point, she even developed some sympathy and twisted fondness for the prince (still her captor and, yes, her rapist) but never had second thoughts about having kept it to herself that Aemond would meet his end in God’s Eye and no one could blame her for it.

To sum up, I think shipping Aemond with Helaena does not automatically make the shipper anti-“alysmond”. In my view, adding one more (for want of a better word) romantic relationship to Aemond’s arc makes sense. It could be an interesting way to show how the character’s attitude towards his love interests and his interactions with them evolve as various experiences are shaping his personality. I would never pit Helaena against Alys. They’re two different women and the fact at some points of their lives, they happened to get involved with the same guy does not make them natural born enemies. In my honest opinion, if the show version of Helaena had a chance to meet Alys (here, I mean my own idea of this character, since we don’t learn much about her from FnB and her show counterpart is still a mystery), they would become… good friends.

#hotd #my rants #helaena targaryen #aemond targaryen #alys rivers #helaemond #alysmond #aemond x helaena #alys x aemond #alys rivers deserved better #anti helaemond #anti alysmond #fire and blood #my theories #am i lowkey shipping helys

[johannawesterling]

I keep seeing this, and it keeps pissing me off.

Can we stop saying that Helaena killed herself because of a vision of Aemond dying? That is disgusting. It makes Helaena's ending about Aemond instead of herself and her grief about the loss of her own child. Helaena deserves better than that.

#anti helaemond #aemond targaryen #helaena targaryen #maelor targaryen #i feel like a lot of h*laemonds see helaena as an extension of aemond and keep projecting onto her #hotd #house of the dragon #game of thrones #got

[smokesandsugars]

I don't know how (un)popular this opinion is but I really hope they won't do Helaemond on the show. Yes, it would add a layer to their relationship and everything that's going to happen concerning Helaena's children but I'm not a fan of this particular pairing. I'm all for Aemond being fiercely protective over his sister and dealing with the horrible consequences of his actions but that can be shown without him being romantically involved with Helaena. And it would heavily interfere with Aegon's character arc. Hoping to see more Green sibling interactions in general.

#house of the dragon #hotd #asoiaf #helaena targaryen #aemond targaryen #targtowers #aegon ii targaryen #ewan mitchell #anti helaemond

[helaenasaegon]

The funny thing is: The worst Aegon II haters aren't Team Blacks, they're Team Greens. Usually Aemond stans.

TBs who hate Aegon hate him, but they're usually (usually) normal about it. TG Aegon haters? They're literally out here writing fanfics about him raping his wife (so Aemond can save her, uwu 🥺), his daughter, his mother, his sons (probably), his brothers, and his nephews. They're disturbingly feral about it, it's like crack to them.

#aegon ii targaryen #anti aemond stans #anti green stans #txt #anti aemond x helaena #anti helaemond

[bibiundtinaundzombies]

“i love helaena so much! helaemond/helaegon forever!” i am projectile vomiting into your face at a velocity so strong you are thrown backwards through a brick wall.

#helaena targaryen #anti helaemond #anti aemond targaryen #anti aemond stans #pro helaena targaryen #anti helaegon #anti aegon ii targaryen #anti aegon ii stans #pro helaena in a homosexual sad pretentious pseudointellectual anti everyone else way

[drakaripykiros130ac]

Am I the only one who is absolutely amused by the war between TG fans who either ship Alysmond (Alys x Aemond), Helaemond (Helaena x Aemond) or Helaegon (Helaena x Aegon)?

All hell is breaking loose.

I’m having the time of my life.

#house of the dragon #team black #rhaenyra targaryen #anti aegon ii targaryen #anti aemond targaryen #helaena targaryen #pro team black #hotd #anti team green #anti greens #queen rhaenyra #anti helaegon #anti helaemond #anti alysmond

[yourlocalnetizen]

Daeron should be Helaena's favourite brother and the closest to her had Ryan actually adapted him and not give his characterization to someone else who shouldn't have them in the first place

YES!!! This!

I was like "If their going to force a Naerys plotline onto Helaena, Daeron is more likely to her Aemon than Aemond is"

Book!Aemond and Book!Helaena would have never worked out. Helaena was kind, motherly, intelligent, & gentle while Aemond was unhinged, acts before thinking, and not even passive agressive, he was straight up agressive.

Helaena & Aegon just weren't right for each other, I have little more to say.

But Daeron, he was kind, clever, the most comely, & he would have treated her right.

While Show!Aemond isn't straight up Daeron, but he has many characteristics his book counterpart didn't have that Daeron did. (Similar to how Show!Helaena absorbed up many of Jaehaera's characteristics).

#helaena targaryen #daeron targaryen #daeron the daring #anti helaemond #anti helaegon

[gojuo]

Do you think Aemond loves his brother Aegon in the show? I feel a little bitter about how the showrunners have portrayed their relationship in the show. In the book I've always seen it as kind of tyrion / Jaime relationship, in fact all of alicent's children love each other there. But in the show its seems that they are trying to turn it into Aegon iv/ naerys/ aemon . Like how can they interpret Aegon II as Aegon IV? And Aemond of all people as Aemon the dragonknight? lmao

They desperately want to make aegon hated by all of his family for some reason. Even joffery wasn't hated by all of the lannisters, his mother loved him even if it's in her own way. Aegon in the other hand is hated by everyone except maybe for sunfyre lol

I don’t think Aegon is necessarily hated by his family members, just that they are disappointed with his debauchery and heedlessness towards duty. Aegon and Aemond present a united front from the “You may cuff him about as you wish at home, but in the world, we must defend our own,” line onwards:

In the Driftmark episode, Aemond lies about who told him about the Strong bastards rumor and Aegon takes the blame without blinking, protecting both Aemond and Alicent by going along with the lie.

This background dialogue insinuates that the brothers’ relationship is pretty normal and amicable, and not at all antagonistic. Aemond confides in Aegon concerning his grievances with Viserys' actions.

When Aegon provoked Jace and Baela and Jace stood up as if to talk back, Aemond stood up as well, essentially shutting the boy up and forcing him to sit back down. Aemond was protecting Aegon here.

When Aemond starts his Strong boys speech, Aegon is the only one to raise his cup when asked, smirking all the while, showing his support of his brother’s antics to the entire room.

When the scuffle between Jace and Aemond broke out, Luke tried to head over to his brother but Aegon stopped him in his tracks and slammed his head into the table, making Luke unable to aid Jace. Aegon shielded Aemond here by physically taking part in a fight that wasn’t really his.

Aemond’s line in the last episode: “Did you really think that you could just fly about the realm trying to steal my brother’s throne at no cost?”

To the outside world, Aegon and Aemond make clear that they are loyal to one another, that they are brothers through and through, that they are one family. Such a thing was never present in Egg 4 and Aemon’s dynamic and relationship. For starters, Aegon orders a statue to be made of Aemond and Daeron after their deaths and also orders that in all chronicles and court records the title of queen is only preserved for his mother and for Helaena, calling them the “true queens.” Let’s compare these small tidbits with the dynamic Aegon IV, Naerys and Aemon had:

TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 95:

It was said of Aegon that he never slept alone and did not count a night complete until he had spent himself in a woman. His carnal lusts were satiated by all manner of women, from the highest born of princesses to the meanest whore, and he seemed to make no difference between them. In his last years, Aegon claimed he had slept with at least nine hundred women (the exact number eluded him), but that he only truly loved nine. Queen Naerys, his sister, was not counted among them.

Egg 4 gives his bastard son one of the greatest symbols of Targaryen legitimacy, shocking the entire court by publicly favoring his bastard over his own trueborn son with Naerys. TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 95-96:

King Aegon knighted Daemon in his twelfth year when he won a squires’ tourney (thereby making him the youngest knight ever made in the time of the Targaryens, surpassing Maegor I) and shocked his court, kin, and council by bestowing upon him the sword of Aegon the Conqueror, Blackfyre, as well as lands and other honors.

Egg 4 greatly disliked Naerys and all of what she stood for, and made it publicly known he did so as well. He refused her plea to separate after giving him a son and the book insinuates he did it because he wanted her to suffer. TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 96:

Queen Naerys—the one woman Aegon IV bedded in whom he took no pleasure—was pious and gentle and frail, and all these things the king misliked. […] Naerys was said to address her brother thus: “I have done my duty by you, and given you an heir. I beg you, let us live henceforth as brother and sister.” We are told that Aegon replied: “That is what we are doing.” Aegon continued to insist his sister perform her wifely duties for the rest of her life.

Egg 4 quite literally tried to murder Aemon when he was 1.5 years old, like, really. Fire and Blood, p. 701:

On the eve of Smith’s Day, Larra of Lys gave Prince Viserys a second son, a large and lusty boy that the prince named Aemon. A feast was held to celebrate, and all rejoiced at the birth of this new prince… save mayhaps for his year-and-a-half-old brother, Aegon, who was discovered hitting the babe with the dragon’s egg that had been placed inside the cradle. No harm was done, for Aemon’s howls soon brought Lady Larra running to disarm and discipline her elder son.

Egg 4 made up false rumors that his son by Naerys was actually Aemon’s, which is a crime punishable by exile/death, and tried to disinherit his own trueborn heir Daeron in favor of his bastard Daemon. TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 96:

The king’s quarrels with his close kin became all the worse after his son Daeron grew old enough to voice his opinions. Kaeth’s Lives of Four Kings makes it plain that the false accusations of the queen’s adultery made by Ser Morgil Hastwyck were instigated by the king himself, though at the time Aegon denied it. […] It was also the first (but not the last) time that Aegon threatened to name one of his bastards as his heir instead of Daeron.

After the deaths of his siblings [Aemon and Naerys], the king began to make barely veiled references to his son’s alleged illegitimacy—something he dared only because the Dragonknight was dead.

Then, this is THEEE passage which shows how different the Aegon/Naerys/Aemon-dynamic is to the Aegon/Helaena/Aemond (and Daeron) one. TWOIAF, Aegon IV, p. 96:

Matters between them [Aegon and Naerys] were inflamed further by Prince Aemon, their brother, who had been inseperable from Naerys when they were young. Aegon’s resentment of his noble, celebrated brother was plain to all, for the king delighted in slighting Aemon and Naerys both at every turn. Even after the Dragonknight died in his defense, and Queen Naerys perished in childbed the year after, Aegon IV did little to honor their memory.

Contrast that to this passage. Dangerous Women, The Princess and the Queen, p. 783:

When his grief had passed, King Aegon II summoned his loyalists and made plans for his return to King’s Landing, to reclaim the Iron Throne and be reunited once again with his lady mother, the Queen Dowager, who had at last emerged triumphant over her great rival, if only by outliving her. “Rhaenyra was never a queen,” the king declared, insisting that henceforth, in all chronicles and court records, his half-sister be referred to only as “princess,” the title of queen being reserved only for his mother Alicent and his late wife and sister Helaena, the “true queens.” And so it was decreed.

And this one. Fire and Blood, p. 561:

During this time, Aegon II also commanded that the Dragonpit be restored and rebuilt, commissioned two huge statues of his brothers Aemond and Daeron (he decreed they should be larger than the Titan of Braavos, and covered in gold leaf), […]

Do you think Egg 4 would ever honor Naerys and Aemon in the way Egg 2 did with Helaena and Aemond (and Daeron too, my poor forgotten boy...)? The relationship between Aegon and Aemond is the exact opposite of Aegon IV and Aemon if I say so myself. Both in show and book.

TWOIAF, Aegon II, p. 77:

Aemond took up the mantle of Protector of the Realm and Prince Regent after both Aegon and Sunfyre were gravely injured at Rook’s Rest in the battle with Rhaenys and Meleys. He even donned his brother’s crown—Aegon the Conqueror’s crown of rubies and Valyrian steel—though he did not call himself king.

Fire and Blood, p. 437:

And so one-eyed Aemond the Kinslayer took up the iron-and-ruby crown of Aegon the Conqueror. “It looks better on me than it ever did on him,” the prince proclaimed. Yet Aemond did not assume the style of king, but named himself only Protector of the Realm and Prince Regent.

Can you imagine Aemon doing this with Egg 4? Aegon would literally rather die than having Aemon rule in his stead and he would for sure have his brother’s head if Aemon had said what Aemond said here, lmao. Aegon IV despises Aemon and Aemon doesn’t care about mending the relationship. Egg 2 and Aemond, however, are one team. They are BROTHERS. Both in the book and in the show.

About Aegon and Helaena’s relationship… The one thing that is comparable to Egg 4 and Naerys is the fact that Egg 2 also cheated on his wife and fathered bastards. However even in that they are dissimilar because Egg 4 had public mistresses of high-rank who stayed in court for all to see together with him and Naerys. Egg 4’s bastards also stayed in court together with Daeron, his son and heir by Naerys. Egg 4 publicly humiliated his wife by allowing this and openly showed contempt towards his trueborn son Daeron by favoring his mistresses’ children over him. And I mean… By spreading rumors of Naerys and Aemon having an affair and that Daeron was the result of that affair, Egg 4 essentially tried to have Naerys, Aemon and Daeron his own child exiled/executed since such a thing is high treason. Egg 2 has not ever done such a thing. Aegon II’s affairs were only with servants and prostitutes of King’s Landing, not high-ranking noble ladies who stayed in court together with the entire family. He’s only had 2 confirmed bastards (he’s probably had more, but the book only confirms two); one with a maidservant who we never hear of again (probably sent away by Alicent with a bag of money) and one with a prostitute from the Street of Silk. Aegon’s never favored those two children over his children with Helaena in the way Egg 4 did. We actually never hear of them again outside of knowing they exist somewhere. Aegon never accused Helaena of high treason, Helaena never tried to beg Aegon to relieve her of her “wifely duties” like Naerys did, Aegon’s affairs weren’t in front of Helaena’s face all the time like with Egg 4 who had all of his lovers live in the same castle with his wife, Egg 2 canonically only has 2 bastards vs Egg 4’s 15 bastards, etc. etc.

An example of Aegon trying to protect Helaena’s honor (to be fair her honor is not being insulted, but oh well). Fire and Blood, p. 387:

Still later, the fool reports, Aegon the Elder took offense when Jacaerys asked his wife, Helaena, for a dance. Angry words were exchanged, and the two princes might have come to blows if not for the intervention of the Kingsguard.

Aegon was devastated by Blood and Cheese and cared a great deal for his children. Fire and Blood, p. 425.

In his grief and fury, King Aegon II commanded that all the city’s ratcatchers be taken out and hanged, and this was done. […] Though Blood and Cheese had spared her life, Queen Helaena cannot be said to have survived that fateful dusk. Afterward she would not eat, nor bathe, nor leave her chambers, and she could no longer stand to look upon her son Maelor, knowing that she had named him to die. The king had no recourse but to take the boy from her and give him over to their mother, the Dowager Queen Alicent, to raise as if he were her own. Aegon and his wife slept separately thereafter, and Queen Helaena sank deeper and deeper into madness, whilst the king raged, and drank, and raged.

Aegon and Helaena slept in one bed together up until Blood and Cheese tore them apart, in stark contrast to Egg 4 who “never took pleasure” in Naerys.

Aegon’s reason for accepting the crown was to protect himself, his brothers, his sister and his children. Fire and Blood, p. 398:

Only when Ser Criston convinced him that the princess must surely execute him and his brothers should she don the crown did Aegon waver. “Whilst any trueborn Targaryen yet lives, no Strong can ever hope to sit the Iron Throne,” Cole said. “Rhaenyra has no choice but to take your heads if she wishes her bastards to rule after her.” It was this, and only this, that persuaded Aegon to accept the crown that the small council was offering him.

Aegon and Helaena had an okay relationship in the book. It was affable enough. Cheating aside, Helaena never went through the torment Naerys did by her husband’s hands. Egg 2 & Helaena’s and Egg 4 & Naerys’ relationships are just not comparable to each other. Even in the show, even if there is dissent in the relationship, it’s not implied anywhere that Helaena is afraid of Aegon or miserable in her marriage in the way that Naerys was. Aegon mostly ignores her, apparently, except when he is drunk (hinting that Egg feels the need to be intoxicated in order to “do his duty” AKA have sex with her). In history, Aemon and Naerys are remembered as having loved each other (AGOT, Sansa III & Sansa IV and ACOK, Sansa VI). This is not the case for Helaena and Aemond. Those two have never been suggested as having been lovers within the canon. Those two have also literally never interacted with each other in the show… Like I’m being serious. They’ve only ever stood next to each other and that’s literally it. This H*l*emond crap is being shoved down our throats by the fandom, not the showrunners. And this is happening because Team Black wants some sick type of justification for Blood and Cheese by making Helaena’s children bastards, pretending like the Greens are hypocrites, as if Helaena and Alicent are anything like Rhaenyra. They want Jaehaerys to be Aemond's bastard because they want Daemon to be vindicated for the "a son for a son" line, instead of it being what it actually is: Daemon's senseless brutality and inhumanity. And I know this because I’ve seen it happening in real time.

To conclude, Aemond is disappointed with Aegon’s immodesty but he is still loyal to T to his brother and his throne, and Aegon supports and aids and trusts Aemond, and has mended their relationship after the eye incident. Aegon II and Aemond are the exact opposite of Aegon IV and Aemon, that’s just how it is. Their dynamics with each other just have nothing in common. Absolutely not in the book, but also not in the show.

#IM SORRRRRYYYYYYY FOR TAKING MONTHS TO ANSWER THIS I AM SORRY !!!!! I REALLY AM!!!!! #i dont know why it happened but it just did i just logged out and didn tlog back in for a while and IM SORRY! #hotd spoilers #aegon ii #aemond #helaena #aemon dragonknight #naerys #aegon iv #hotd #asoiaf #anti helaemond #helaegon #anonymous #answered

[infinitestalia]

What do you think about this theory that Aemond is the father of Helaena's kids? I thought it was harmless spec. But people are believing its true even though each episode goes by and Aemond becomes more dutiful and loyal to his brother. Making babies at 13 when he didn't like his first sexual experience sure sounds like Aemond!

I agree, I think people are seeing things that aren't there. Aemond saying he would marry her felt like it was there to speak to his sense of duty, Targaryen pride and general "maturity" of character, where Aegon is disgusted at the notion and sees his sister as his annoying sister, as kids do. Him walking into the room in that one shot where his face softens- he's looking at his mother because Viserys finally kicked it. He's put off by her dancing with what's his face because he loathes that family. The rest of their scenes are them just standing together lol.

Blood & Cheese does not become more impactful with a parentage change, it becomes a cheap soap opera. You can't take away Aegon's story, that's his son, and his murder should be about how it devastated him and ruined Helaena. Aemond has enough guilt being the unwitting cause, he doesn't need more. And a lot of the fans who advocate the secret bastards theory only do it to make Rhaenyra look better/less stupid for committing high treason; to justify a crime that cannot be justified; and to have the Greens betray each other when- for all their dysfunction- they love and are loyal to one another to the bitter end. It goes against everything Aemond is to betray his brother and idiotically sire bastards that would destroy the legitimacy of his family's line/claim. He's not Rhaenyra.

These endless secret bastards/parentage theories are my least favourite among ASOIAF fans. But it's the kind of idiocy I can see the show doing so I get why it's spiralled. Although for the life of me I can't see why fans would want more incest. Nothing good has or will ever come of it.

#anonymous #aemond targaryen #aegon ii targaryen #helaena targaryen #team green #anti aemond x helaena #blood and cheese #any TB fans who say this are just doing it to undermine Alicent & her very real concern at R's bastards #anti helaemond

[lunaathorne]

aemond targaryen ON GOD we gonna get you out of this mess of ship discourse and back to your wife (alys rivers)

#aemond targaryen #team green #anti team black #hotd #anti lucemond #anti helaemond #alysmond #alys rivers

[helaenasaegon]

Why shove bland as dry white toast Helaem0nd down our throats when they could explore Helaegon's country song of a marriage or give us tortured, angsty Aegond instead?

Because Ryan and Sara have piss-poor taste!

#helaegon #aegond #aegon x helaena #aegon x aemond #helaegon nation #aegond nation #txt #anti helaemond

[dulcewrites]

Whole different type of delusion that I see in this fandom is how helaemond shippers act. All they say is everyone should support Helaena cheating on her unfaithful husband because if you someone doesn't, it's misogynistic, but when you mention Alicent having sex with Criston in season 2 they are furious and say Alicent is not Rhaenyra to sleep around 😂

For them it's like helaemond makes sense because Helaena was smarter than Rhaenyra so no one knew Aemond's the father.

And then when you point out they behave exactly like daemyra stans they are surprised 😂

I knew Alys will be hated in fandom because of 2 things. By Blacks because she was better Queen at Harrenhall than Rhaenyra was for 6 months time and Alys have no supporters and no dragon and no Aemond by her side because he was dead then. And by Greens because she is the opposite of Alicent and Helaena who are stuck and doomed and living in the cage.

But the one truly doomed is in fact Alys. She is lowborn bastard and women, so she means nothing and can be used by her family as they please. And yet she survives and makes the best out of Dance. All without any political machinations, she just took power over Harrenhall and no one took it away from her. If this isn't the best character of this show I don't know who may be.

I think in general people in this fandom, and this is something I must remind myself as well, need to program their brains to stop relating every single thing that happens to a woman in this story to a man. Especially romantically

It is pretty clear that one major point at the base of hotd is patriarchy and how way men often use the girls/women in their lives as pawns or martyrs. Whether people think it was well done or not is their choice, but it is clearly there. That conversation I get, and think we need to have. But the way people are so hellbent on ‘pairing’ women in this story with someone, specifically men, can get exhausting.

Why is the most horrid thing that happens in the dance, something that fundamentally breaks Helaena as a person turned into an argument to either uplift/tear down Aegon or Aemond?? Why is her taking her own life out of grief and fear about her brother(s)???

Why does Alicent, someone who clearly has been through sexual trauma in her life at the hands of men - someone who already has creepy psychosexual relationships with men in her life, have to sleep with criston?? Hell, why does criston someone that’s been taken advantage of by nobility (depending on how you read that scene in ep 4) have to sleep with Alicent, his queen???

If Helaena wants to be unfaithful to her husband, I will support her bc Aegon is not a good husband lmao. But the idea she needs to be with her brother, and he had those kids with her is… very odd to me. I don’t see it and idc if that makes me a hater. In general, I think people’s insistence on taking one of the few targ characters that doesn’t have incest as a major footnote in his story (Aemond) and making him into someone he isn’t, is annoying.

People (rightfully) point out how horrible targaryen girls/women are treated but then perpetuate the one thing that has led to many targ women’s downfall: The idea that they are property to the men in their family.

As for alys, she was going to be hated on several reasons : 1. Ageism (people call show and book Alicent a hag despite show Alicent being in her 30s and book Alicent being in her 40s). 2. The fact that aemond is now the fandom fanfic bike aka he gets ridden/shipped with everyone and him having a canon love interest pisses people off. 3. Low born or bastard born women get treated very differently by the fanbase than their male counterparts. 4. The murky relationship between her and Aemond. Now as someone who is excited to see where they take alysmond, even I can understand why people may put off by it. First you have the age difference on the side of her taking advantage of him. Especially now that in the show it has been implied Aemond delt with his own s.a. But by the time they meet, Aemond is Prince Regent. Clearly in a position of power over her. It is dubious and it’s ok to point that out.

But I’m sure as hell not gonna be reprimanded by daemrya or helaemond shippers on that. They clearly don’t give a shit about what is above board 💀💀. At at the very least, every alysmond shipper I’ve personally come across is very open and clear about alys and Aemond’s relationship, and the possible stipulations. I can’t say the same for the other two camps.

Every woman in this story, nobility or low born, has been through shit. That’s the whole point and the bitch of patriarchy. It affects every woman to a certain degree. Of course someone like Rhaenyra or Alicent has lived a very different life than Alys, and that needs to pointed out. All women are not on equal playing field. But all of them have been trapped or stuck at one point or another. How these women maneuver this world is important because of how differently each live, which is why it is dumb when people advocate for their stories to be cut (Sara, nettles, alys). These characters being vehemently hated by ANYONE is weird asf to me.

I enjoy team green, I write for team green, but people take this ‘team’ stuff too seriously sometimes. Well.. when it comes to the women. The male characters can get it lmao. I personally don’t like the rhetoric around how most women in story get spoken about. People are so focused on whose winning or shipping that the point of the story gets lost. And frankly regurgitating the same points and arguments sucks the fun out a show…shame. If people hate everything about it or have to make up crazy theories for it to work… just don’t watch 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

#power is not the be end all to end all for women #we see that in the noble women #no matter how much power one acquires they are still a woman #I’m sorry if I seem annoyed it’s not you anon #it’s more this fandom #a fandom overly obsessed with sex and shipping #people just pulling stuff out of thin air for shipping reasons #and idc if this makes sound like a ‘puriteen’ or whatever cringe word a grown ass adult made up to speak on children #idk how to tag this… #anti helaemond #I guess idk #anti daemyra #asks and requests

[yourlocalnetizen]

Helaemond shippers are heavily skewed team black and it shows.

Y'all want Helaena's kids to be Aemond's so bad so the greens will be hypocrites and Rhaenyra wont be the only one making bastards her heirs and Blood & Cheese will be "more personal to Aemond".

Maybe I wouldn't hate the ship to much if it was portrayed in a tragic angle.

I prefer the idea that Aemond isn't the biological father of those kids but he stepped up and filled the void of a father figure for them none the less (as Cole did for him) while their pathetic excuse of a father was off drinking and whoring.

#anti team black #anti helaemond #helaena targaryen #aemond targaryen

[darklinaforever]

The problem with Alysm*nd is that the show might make it as some tragic love story as opposed to the book (and even there their stans argue it was all based on true love and shit) and make Alys a victim of her family and Aemond her savior. The thing is, even if she was indeed mistreated by her family like they claim, realistically she would still have absolutely no reason to get in bed with their murderer unless she had no choice but to do so. But who knows what the writers may decide to do. If they still decide to whitewash the greens I believe they will also make this ship more palatable. It's also very troubling that there are some out there who think Aemond was the victim all along. How? Yeah, she may have manipulated him but this happened only after he had taken her as his prize of war (and we know what this actually means for a woman in this context, never in the books was this term used to describe a consensual relationship) and she only did so in order to survive and eventually free herself from him. I imagine he must have deluded himself into thinking she fell in love with him and he with her considering he went into his fight with Daemon with full confidence that he was going to win, something that Alys surely encouraged by telling him he foresaw his victory. And to think how much greens romanticize this relationship and say things like "she was proud to have his baby" or "they're the healthiest relationship in F&B" (I also saw green fans saying this a while ago on twitter or reddit)...what's funnier is that if Daemon or any other man from team black had been the one to take a woman as his war prize the very same greens who are currently shipping Alysm*nd would've undoubtedly called it out for what it actually means for the woman but since it's Aemond doing it...it's a love story between a lowborn woman abused by her evil family and the handsome one-eyed prince who's rescuing her

Frankly, given how the series is about Aemond being a victim, I think there is more of a twist that makes him a victim of Alys' manipulation, rather than a romance. Especially if they decide to fully dive into the seeds they've ridiculously planted for a possible relationship with Helaena and Aemond... I swear thinking Aemond was in love with Helaena or Alys in the books is ridiculous. He got seduced by Alys because she was smart to ensure his survival after he took her as a prize of war and probably raped her. And there is no indication of Aemond's romantic affection for Helaena in the book, and the series, if it goes in this direction, will only offer a pale copy of Naerys & Aemon's romantic relationship. Coming back to Alysmond, I don't understand the romanticization of this relationship. This is simply inconceivable to me. And yes, as you say, if a member of the Black team had priced a woman as a war prize, they would have cried foul. Which is...well just the truth. Alysmond is interesting only in the sense that Alys leads Aemond to his death at the end. Any story trying to make it into a grand romance is ridiculous. Also, this tendency of these people to try to make Aemond morally gray or outright calling him anti-hero makes me laugh. Basically, they want him to be Daemon. Because in case these people have forgotten Daemon is the gray character, the ultimate anti-hero of the story. Aemond is meant to be the opposite (negative) of Daemon. Not the opposite. Literally Daemon is a protagonist / anti hero and Aemond is an antagonist / villain.

#fire and blood #grrm #grr martin #george rr martin #anti hotd #anti house of the dragon #hotd #house of the dragon #anti aemond targaryen #anti aemond stans #alys rivers #anti alysmond #anti helaemond #helaena targaryen #anti team greens #anti greens stans #anti greens #team blacks #pro team blacks #daemon targaryen #pro daemon targaryen #the rogue prince