#anyway ‘I can make that’ is a very valid response to abstract art and it should be encouraged rather than scorned because

[slicedblackolives]

“i can make that” yes, now. it’s opened a new style of expression for you. it’s shown you that that expression is worthy of consideration. it is a door that has opened and you can now walk through it. why are you mad at it for doing its job.

#I think a Jackson pollock exhibition with ms paint drawings by children who simply filled in the background and went ham by the spray paint #without prompting from the teacher or with no exposure to pollock would go so hard personally. #anyway ‘I can make that’ is a very valid response to abstract art and it should be encouraged rather than scorned because #it leads to sincere engagement rather than disdain for the thing you know? #and ‘why is this in a museum but I’m not’ is also a reasonable question worth exploring.

[mbti-galaxies]

hello! sorry if this is bothersome, but i was wondering if you could help me distinguish between infp and isfp?

i’ve thought i was an infp for years now, using cognitive functions even. im definitely no expert, just kinda vaguely know what each one is, but i went through it using several sources i and was like “oh yeah oh yeah this is it” but i dont think it’s It anymore ??

i got diagnosed with adhd in december and ive been taking medication, so it’s been a lot easier to be able to distinguish what’s actually my personality and what kind of just comes from adhd. i think that i might actually be isfp. i think i related a lot to high Ne because with adhd youre always bouncing around restless wanting to do all the things, and youre brain’s always on rapid fire mode. but since ive been on meds ive been less like that and more grounded (i still do drift off a lot ofc cause that’s just how it is). and ive been able to realize that i dont actually get caught up in my thoughts a lot,,,,like i dont uhhhh care very much,,,i am not concerned with the future very much? i think im very in the present, and i kind of just do whatever is in front of me. whatever im in the mood for. sensory stuff. i love piano, ukulele, video games, drawing, etc. doing stuff with my hands. im also a dancer; it’s very fulfilling to be able to engage in something so physically stimulating and be creating art at the same time.

anyways this is so long but im very very leaning towards isfp. it’s crazy cause i used to think i was so head in the clouds but actually??? i love to be grounded?? i love to feel and see and observe things instead of be imagining and thinking about abstract stuff?? im very in the present and i Do Not think about future stuff at all? i really dont think about the big picture at all?????

i know you dont know me so you cant really tell me what my type is, but any input or other differences between infp and isfp would be so helpful!! i also just dont really trust myself and im seeking validation or correction lmao. thanks so much for reading this i appreciate you a lot

Hey!! You're not bothersome at all, I love getting asks and talking to people about their types so thank you so much for sending this!

Obviously I don't know you personally so I'm not going to claim I'm 100% sure of what you are, but right of the bat I can tell you that based on your explanation you definitely sound more like an ISFP rather than an INFP.

(I'm gonna put the rest of my thoughts and stuff under a read more cuz my response is long too lol)

First of all the fact that you mentioned being diagnosed with ADHD is actually really helpful because over the years learning about psychology (I'm majoring in it in college) and the MBTI Personality Theory I've definitely noticed that neurodivergency/mental disorders/mental illnesses play a huge role in how people interpret their type. It's really hard sometimes to tell the difference between whether a trait is your actual personality or something else going on in your brain. This is one reason why a lot of extroverts mistype themselves as introverts because they have social anxiety disorder, a lot of sensors mistype themselves as intuitives because they have ADHD(like your situation), a lot of thinkers mistype themselves as feelers because they have depression, etc.

Alright so now let's get into the major differences between ISFP and INFP.

Assuming you're pretty sure that you're at least IxFP, I won't get into the specifics of every single letter and function here, I'll just discuss the differences between having Se or Ne as your second function in the stack. (Fi-Se-Ni-Te vs Fi-Ne-Si-Te)

Compared to INFPs, ISFPs are much more grounded. Of course they still can drift off and daydream, but they tend to focus on the present more than the future and focus the majority of their stimulation on their physical environment rather than focusing the majority on their inner world.

This seems to match up with what you said: "i am not concerned with the future very much? i think im very in the present, and i kind of just do whatever is in front of me. whatever im in the mood for. sensory stuff. i love piano, ukulele, video games, drawing, etc. doing stuff with my hands. im also a dancer; it’s very fulfilling to be able to engage in something so physically stimulating and be creating art at the same time."

ISFPs also tend to be more practical overall. They can definitely see value in abstract ideas, but they don't spend hours thinking about the big picture and wild concepts like intuitives do. ISFPs may not care as much about the meaning behind something, they care more about how it makes them feel or affects the world around them. They're much more based in reality compared to INFPs, and because of this they also tend to be a little more easygoing and willing to try new things. They like to explore and observe and need outside stimulation a bit more than their intuitive counterparts, and because ISFPs are introverts, this stimulation tends to come from creative and sensory activities such as music, arts, games, etc. (In comparison to ESFPs, who might also need social stimulation in addition to these activities)

This makes sense with what you said: "i love to feel and see and observe things instead of be imagining and thinking about abstract stuff?? im very in the present and i Do Not think about future stuff at all? i really dont think about the big picture at all?????"

Some other differences between the two:

Both ISFPs and INFPs have strong moral compasses from their dominant Fi, but ISFPs may be the less strict of the two, or they may be able to change their opinions on something a little bit faster. This is because INFPs have a major tendency to overthink everything, so when new information comes in they basically have to reevaluate a lot of things. ISFPs on the other hand don't necessarily have to think through every little action that they do, if something feels wrong or they learn that something they do is wrong it's a much quicker turnaround since they don't get caught up in their head as much.

ISFPs aren't as idealistic as INFPs. Sure they have wants and dreams for themselves and the world, but they have much more realistic expectations overall.

ISFPs display their passions and feelings through actions primarily. They focus on displaying and expressing things (show not tell perse). INFPs display their passions and feelings through words and meaning primarily. They like thoroughly discussing or thinking through the why, figuring out patterns and connections.

So with all that in mind and your own thoughts about yourself and your type, I'd say you're an ISFP. Feel free to ask more questions if you have any or if I missed something! Thank you so so much for the ask and I hope you have a wonderful day!

#asks #replies #mbti #isfp #infp

[littlebabycrybtch]

bro..... im sooo tired of ppl being whiny freaks about ppl liking fictional shit ‘~too much~’. like bitches are literally fully convinced if you prefer acting out certain ideas in fiction but not irl, thats not your normal preferential boundaries but rather your brain is a mental illness BOMB and you need to be fucking hospitalized for being imaginative and having autonomy. like yall if its not taboo or smth shut uuuuhp man you’re not ‘concerned for their health’ or w/e you’re fully just tryna get away with being a nihilistic asshole who lacks sympathetic reasoning skills. listen to me. fiction is valuable. the thoughts we have on it are important. the personal lack of value you happen to put on a media is next to worthless. its not a fuckin waste of time dude, creators are people, who live in the real world, they experience it and have ideas through it and about it, they form and tweak their ideas while still definitely existing in the real world, and then put that back into the world with a new angle and new perspective, to share with other people definitely encountering it in , you guessed it , the real world. thats not disconnected. its not nothing. these things do not magically appear from fairytale land, they are created. stories mean smth, people tell them for a reason, its ok to feel smth for any story, why would we even tell them if not with the intention to impact others emotionally somehow i mean??? fiction does not Just affect reality, it is valuable to real life society, it is a functioning thriving part OF reality. 

humans have told stories since the dawn of our existence. it is literally all but an inherent species trait for us to imagine things, its tied to each and every one of us, and to reject ‘fantasy’ as smth worthless to human life is frankly just fuckin wrong and weird of you. bitch we are Supposed to get outside the box, the fandom ppl you cringe your pants over arent thinking abt fake shit too much, you guys very often just arent exercising abstract thought and imagination enough, which actually hurts your ability to engage with it critically in all the ways its meant to be. if you dont see the value in fiction its because you put in no effort to form the analysis skills. in other words, you idiots dont get the hype bc you’re too stupid to get how you're supposed to compare a book to the real world it came from. ‘uu but cmon not everythings valuable what about [tumblr designated cringe media]-’ 1. ok! somehow you havent come to this conclusion yourself yet but thats not real, whatever ppl get to enjoy is not all abt you, your bias means less than dirt to others outside of hivemind social medias, you can keep it to yourself, ppl shouldnt care about it bc it means nothing outside of ur own space, its literally funny to me that you’re so elitist you want me to cater my interests to you, Your Standard Of Quality Isnt Universal, 2. ranking the values of fiction is the waste of time here, if you compare mlp to pride and prejudice ill dissect your teeth, different emotional impacts from tragic to funny to Just A Vibe are all able to be assessed as ‘valuable to somebody else so leave well enough alone’ if you dont have 2010+ funnyman brainrot disease that makes you incapable of reflecting on anything you can find a way to joke abt first.

i mean seriously like. whenever randos start engaging with medias you ppl dont like or in ways you dont get, the strawmans yall make up to get to be cringe culture vultures abt such benign shit, and almost Always at the expense of neurodivergent people with a deeply rooted undertone of extreme ableism might i add..... its just so selfish. u have a brain ok, you’re manipulative but we both know you dont Actually think ppl automatically default to being a waifu obsessed incel rotting away at their basement computer, stagnating their social skills and straying further and further from reality with each passing day, a poor disturbed wretch that you just HAVE to save from themselves, all bc they say they. prefer fictional porn or w/e to having sex irl. buddy thats not a big deal, theyre normal, just different from you. theyre fine, you’re just uncomfortable. as a functioning adult you’re gonna have to try and recognize that sometimes that feelings gonna be 100% on you, and you cant always just lie abt the validity of it to make ppl feel obligated into agreeing with you. this is gonna be one fragment of their personhood and your self obsessed brain imploding over how unrelatable that is doesnt fucking matter, grow up bitch like. how detached do you have to be to think thats so unstable or morally wrong.... its just a completely inconsequential preferential decision that only affects them and isnt a wrong choice at all cuz nobody has to get their dick wet if they dont wanna for any reason ever and thats gotta be that tbh.... and it kills me cuz they still inherently experience the real world and are capable of thinking abt it critically,,, even tho they... masturbate to drawings or w/e the fuck ppl think is unhealthy ???? like? imagination is just fun we dont need to moderate it anymore than we moderate other fun activities i mean lol ksdjfsd this is the DEFINITION of ‘just vibing’ no one FUCKING cares and it deosnt fucking matter the way you desperately try to make ppl think it does just so u get to be loud abt ur shortcomings as a decent understanding person. 

‘uuuuuu im sorry but thats unhealthy :///’ you sound like a goddamn maniac dude stories are not unhealthy having feelings abt them is not unhealthy thinking some anime bitch that was DRAWN TO BE HOT , IS HOT, is not UNHEALTHY and you clowns arent convincing anybody you ‘care’ abt that concept anyways !! im losign my mind here skdlsdfsd medias are literally DESIGNED TO DO THIS TO PEOPLE... WE’RE SUPPOSED TO FEEL THINGS FOR IT.... IT IS WHAT MAKES THE ART WE’VE TAKEN PART IN FOR CENTURIES, “ART”.... ITS JUST... HAVING IDEAS AND EXPERIENCING IMAGINATION..... whats wildly unhealthy actually is yalls toxic obsession with ‘harsh truth’ and validating your stupid ass cwinge feewings to the point where everything that gives your underdeveloped selfish ass hives has to be a matter of health and morals and whats ‘best’ for everyone. u dont know that shit!!!! ur a petty brat and im not ur mommy ok i wont baby you so u dont feel like the shitty whiny person you are, you need to grow and do better and think outside urself already, dont put the responsibility of making u feel right for judging somebodies benign hobbies on me. i wont bc its wrong and unnecessary. you’re not a savior no ones falling for that lmao you’re just a bitch girl xoxo get over it shit truly does not matter. let them write nsfw self insert fics instead of banging !! 

to make it real do yall really not Get that basic consent kinda doesnt just mean ‘no when im not in the mood at the time’ but it means ‘no if i just dont fuckin feel like having sex ever for literally any reason at all bc i choose what i do’ and pressuring them, even with what your warped brain translates as the best of intentions, is inherently disgusting? especially with the ‘i know how to help you’ attitude like......... ohhh die soonly ew lmao! lay off this nasty shit already please it doesnt matter! stop trying to make it matter!! its not hurting you or them you stupid tumblr phd ass!! and like again yeah some media shits just truly gross but tbr now its like even That kind of shit, the Real social issues caused by Actually problematic media that ppl should discuss Genuinely without ulterior motives, is being used more and more rampantly as just a stepping stone to get to the needless mockery of other harmless things in the media they want an excuse to bag on.......... like a bitch cant just be grown and talk about problems at face value without getting a bully jab in. smhhhhh you all fuckin suck please just stop talking already. so anyways yeah being attracted to fictional characters instead of real people or w/e IS funny, funny how many boyfriends they have when u have none xoxo theyre having fun and you can die sad abt it they get to die 5 times in an angsty fantasy fic and be brought back with mouth to mouth by fuckin kakashi every time and then they go get lunch irl while ur updating tinder bitch ... different fucking strokes ig !

#long post// #i would like one free ticket to pop off please. thank you #can i cash it in immediately if you dont mind

[c-ptsdrecovery]

Today I took the Big Five Personality test (i’ve taken it several times before). I’m looking at the definitions for the five traits, and thinking about how they interact with my C-PTSD.

Openness

Openness describes a person’s tendency to think in abstract, complex ways. High scorers tend to be creative, adventurous, and intellectual. They enjoy playing with ideas and discovering novel experiences. Low scorers tend to be practical, conventional, and focused on the concrete. They tend to avoid the unknown and follow traditional ways.

Openness is strongly related to a person’s interest in art and culture. People who are high in openness tend to enjoy the arts and seek out unusual, complex forms of self-expression. People who are low in openness are often suspicious of the arts and prefer to focus on more practical pursuits.

I score high on this, which surprises me a little, given how conventional my parents are and how much they tried to squelch my individuality. But I guess my natural creativity and intellectual curiosity couldn’t be squelched. :)

Conscientiousness

Conscientiousness describes a person’s ability to exercise self-discipline and control in order to pursue their goals. High scorers are organized and determined, and are able to forego immediate gratification for the sake of long-term achievement. Low scorers are impulsive and easily sidetracked.

The concept of Conscientiousness focuses on a dilemma we all face: shall I do what feels good now, or instead do what is less fun but will pay off in the future? Some people are more likely to choose fun in the moment, and thus are low in Conscientiousness. Others are more likely to work doggedly toward their goals, and thus are high in this trait.

I score high on this. It might be related to the fact that my family was SUPER DISCIPLINED and made me so, too. On the other hand, some people respond to stress with procrastination and impulsivity, so.

Extraversion

Extraversion describes a person’s inclination to seek stimulation from the outside world, especially in the form of attention from other people. Extraverts engage actively with others to earn friendship, admiration, power, status, excitement, and romance. Introverts, on the other hand, conserve their energy, and do not work as hard to earn these social rewards.

Extraversion seems to be related to the emotional payoff that a person gets from achieving a goal. While everyone experiences victories in life, it seems that extroverts are especially thrilled by these victories, especially when they earn the attention of others. Getting a promotion, finding a new romance, or winning an award are all likely to bring an extrovert great joy. In contrast, introverts do not experience as much of a “high” from social achievements. They tend to be more content with simple, quiet lives, and rarely seek attention from others.

Now, this is particularly interesting to me. Because this is not how I’ve heard “extroversion” defined in the past. I’ve always understood that extroverts are energized by interactions with others (often lots of others) and drained by being alone, and that introverts are energized by being alone and drained by being with others. According to that definition, I’m an introvert. However, I score 79% on extraversion in this test, because I definitely value others’ opinions of me, often more than I value my opinions of myself. I would not call this “extraversion”, however: I would call this, “an external locus of self-esteem.” 

This particular trait is really complicated for me, anyway. Because my level of stereotypical extroverted traits (talkativeness, wanting to be the center of attention, starting conversations, etc) is EXTREMELY context-specific. When I’m comfortable and feeling like I’m getting positive feedback, I am VERY talkative. I start conversations with pleasant-seeming strangers a LOT, sometimes. And I LOVE being the center of positive attention, as long as I’m in a situation where I feel like it’s valid for me to be that center (because my “showing off” was a Capital Crime in my narcissistic mother’s opinion, so I’ve got kind of a complex about it). However, if I’m in a situation where I feel rejected at all, I crawl back into my shell like a wounded turtle. So I have trouble answering questions about extroversion and introversion to begin with! It depends SO MUCH and my responses end up on opposite ends of spectrum.

(Generally, I describe myself as “a big-mouthed introvert.” I desperately need lots of alone time, but I LOVE to communicate. Thus my adoration of the internet. lol)

Agreeableness

Agreeableness describes a person’s tendency to put others’ needs ahead of their own, and to cooperate rather than compete with others. People who are high in Agreeableness experience a great deal of empathy and tend to get pleasure out of serving and taking care of others. They are usually trusting and forgiving.

People who are low in Agreeableness tend to experience less empathy and put their own concerns ahead of others. Low scorers are often described as hostile, competitive, and antagonistic. They tend to have more conflictual relationships and often fall out with people.

While I scored high on this (77%), this is my lowest of all five scores. Which is funny, because I get the impression that other people’s impression of me is that I’m EXTREMELY agreeable. (Heck, I was occasionally referred to in high school by people who didn’t know my name as “The Nice One”!)

I think the reason my agreeableness score isn’t as high as my others is twofold. The first issue is that I feel a lot more empathy than I do drive to care for others. I feel other people’s feelings a LOT. However, I also frequently find other people’s negative feelings overwhelming. If I’m in a situation where there isn’t anybody else to help, or where I would be expected to help, I jump in and help (a friend really needs help with a task and has no one else to ask. Someone falls down and scrapes their knee right in front of me. etc). I expend a lot of emotional energy doing this.

However, if I’m in a situation where someone else can step in, or where I wouldn’t be expected to help, I often don’t help (sometimes seeing someone in distress online, etc). So I tend to score myself a little lower on this than I might otherwise do.

But that brings me to the other reason my score isn’t that high: because I’m scoring MYSELF. It may be that my standards for how much I SHOULD be giving of myself to others is waaaaay higher than it needs to be (in fact, I’m almost sure it is). Hardly surprising, considering I grew up with a narcissistic mother who thought I should constantly be putting HER first and I should therefore NEVER be first. When you grow up being taught that self-abnegation is your primary duty, you tend to feel bad about yourself whenever you’re doing basic self-care. It’s pretty twisted.

Anyway, I think this is a failing of the entire test as a whole: it’s based on self-perception. I think our perception of ourselves is often skewed. And I think it’s particularly skewed for those with childhood emotional abuse/neglect. Because one of the things that good enough parents do (that toxic parents do not) is reflect to their children an accurate view of themselves. If your parents gave you a skewed view of yourself, or refused to reflect upon you at all, it’s hardly surprising you’d have trouble accurately evaluating yourself.

Neuroticism

Neuroticism describes a person’s tendency to experience negative emotions, including fear, sadness, anxiety, guilt, and shame. While everyone experiences these emotions from time to time, some people are more prone to them than others.

This trait can be thought of as an alarm system. People experience negative emotions as a sign that something is wrong in the world. You may be in danger, so you feel fear. Or you may have done something morally wrong, so you feel guilty. However, not everyone has the same reaction to a given situation. High Neuroticism scorers are more likely to react to a situation with fear, anger, sadness, and the like. Low Neuroticism scorers are more likely to brush off their misfortune and move on.

I have PTSD. My neuroticism score is necessarily going to be high. “Neuroticism” basically measures emotional stability, and those with mood disorders or most kinds of mental health problems are obviously going to have a lower score on emotional stability. That being said, I think it’d be interesting to take this test again when I’ve recovered from PTSD (some things linger for the rest of one’s life, but one can recover from the acute symptoms). My score might go down. It’s already fluctuated over the last two and a half years from a highest score of 83% (Feb. 2018) to a lowest score of 62.5% (Sept. 2018). And those two scores were only 7 months apart!

This makes me wonder about the validity of this test. The studies I managed to find on a simple google search about whether Big Five personality traits changed much over time all seemed to be very long-term studies: they test you very infrequently over long periods of time. Testing more frequently might show more instability in scores, which might cast doubt on the test’s validity, or even on the idea that these are actually personality traits (more long-lasting trends in behavior) or simply tendencies which could change a great deal within short periods of time

#c-ptsd #big five personality test #personality test

[griffinblogsgw2]

(Responses to Where Did You Go? page 17)

#oh baby... i understand those feels all to well ;-; #all the hugs for baby tora #gdi phone i ment feelings but sure (x) @denimwingsface

Me too. I’m sorry to hear that :c

#AHH BABY AHHHHH #NOOOO #BBY NO CRY PLASSS #mood #oof #ouch #owie (x) @theauseer

#oh no torraaa (x) @woozyintyria

#QmQ #Ow my heart #-hugs Tora- (x) @callumthorn

#TORAAAAA #*sobs* #I like your art Tora (x) @fallenqueero

We’re through the worst of it! Mostly!

#i'm going to cry #also fight Ascon but while crying (x) @sylvari-bouquet

#Ascon is gonna catch these hands (x) @thetyrianthree

I honestly didn’t know how people were going to react to Ascon. I’m relieved.

(And honestly feeling a lil validated frankly. This page was difficult and very personal)

#yo im ready to throw hands with the blacksmith and ascon #my girl nocte might have some words #thats mostly a joke but i will gladly throw down for baby tora #how dare they make him cry (x) @nocte-argentea​

I just imagine Nocte dropping everything she’s doing to dash over to The Grove and punch some grouchy sylvari in the face

And this amuses me very much

#damn tora the world already took it job of breaking you huh #he feels too much which is why now he hides it behind cocky mask #like he learned from baya #this hurts too much (x) @galaxypuddle

Pretty much, eh?

Tora’s backstory is a tad.. bleak? I’m hoping this stuff is filling in the holes though.

#oughhhhh tora #griffin i so admire how u make your panel layout work for u like the whole page just bleeds emotion (x) @aameyalli

Tyvm! I’m very fussy about panel layouts haha

I only do more abstract layouts like this if it helps communicate the story. The only reason I can get away with a page like this is because we already know from previous pages where Terin is, what they’re doing, and what those flashbacks are in relation to Terin. We’re very much in Terin’s head this page, much like Terin themself.

Anyway, ranting. Thank you! I worked very hard on this one!

#gw2 #Guild Wars 2 #fan comic #tora response #if you'd like to be removed from these comic responses please let me know

[abundantchewtoys]

HS Epi: Meat p19 reaction

I... don't really know what to expect anymore.

What could the wallet contain. A Dad note. A Terezi note. Or captchalogued people?

Odds are even we won't be seeing it right away. Though I'd dread to see Dirk's omniscient narrative voice take over narration of the post-victory scenes.

Still, Dirk should know better by now than to rely on his strong points this much. They're not evened out by a reliable moral compass all the time, and he's seen the results of that before. Guess with great knowledge comes great arrogance.

"Anyway, back to the B Plot." Ah yes, the B Plot. On Earth C. Featuring A2 trolls Karkat and Kanaya.

"Right about now, Jade should be wrapping up her political presentation to Roxy and Calliope" Ah, skipping right to the end of that, are we.

"Jade’s got this disarming combo of head-in-the-clouds flightiness and the kind of legit, down-to-earth cred that can only be earned by having done something like cutting open your own grandfather and stuffing him full of polyurethane foam." Ah yes, one of these definitely led to the other.

"neoliberal austerity measures" How often can we repeat the same 3 words?

"

Roxy groans upon hearing the phrase “neoliberal austerity measures” for no less than the third time in this presentation." Roxy the audience surrogate. Since it's our 3rd time too.

"JADE: as i outlined here in graph b-2 JADE: and here in figure a-6" It's a good thing timelines can only be scratched the once. A6 Alternia would have been a dreadful sight.

"JADE: and here!!! in this very spooky drawing i dictated to callie JADE: (great drawing by the way!!!) CALLIOPE: ^u^" Hah, Calliope's drawing skills have found another use! Political Powerpoints.

"JADE: the thing is that jane is an establishment leader JADE: shes looking at doing things the way our old universes did them JADE: shes pretty convinced that shes going to be able to replicate the capitalist hierarchies that earth had but in a more “responsible” way JADE: but none of that stuff actually worked!!!!!" That's a nice summary of the things that are wrong to Jane's approach, actually. Though it doesn't provide an answer to the underlying problem yet.

"ROXY: and u think karkat can do better? JADE: i think its worth it to give him a chance JADE: hes a leader of the people AND hes experienced firsthand what happens when establishment goes too far JADE: which i imagine you can sympathize with!" This really feels like a boardroom conference, with Jane trying to get a preliminary backing out of a captain of industry.

"Her graphs are floating around the living room in disarray." Hah, she's using her space powers for this in another mundane application. Though... not in any offical setting, it seems. Roxy and Calliope's home.

"CALLIOPE: i’m... CALLIOPE: going to get Us tea and snacks. woUld yoU like some, jade?" To be fair, Calliope's probably going to follow Roxy in her eventual decision, anyway. Her childhood fascination with trolls might have been abandoned for new interests, or she might trust her friend's judgment in matters political.

"Calliope excuses herself from the conversation, and flees to the kitchen, seemingly making no attempt to disguise the fact that she is in fact fleeing." What a cutey. Calliope might in fact be trying to flee anything reeking of negativity, associating it with black romance and such.

"Jade deflates as she watches her go, sensing that her presentation wasn’t the slam dunk she was hoping for." It's so easy forgetting that the narration is also at least in part steering the story at this point. >_<

"ROXY: well i gotta say ROXY: this has been a hella convincing argument all in all ROXY: buuuuut idk if i can help u out" Maybe they would actually like to stay neutral?

"She and Calliope live in a belfry above New Prospit. One end of their living room is an oriel window that looks out over a public park. The other disappears into an arcading hallway lit at the far end by a giant stained glass window that Calliope made herself. The corbels supporting it have windy, abstract shapes carved into them." Artsy! I didn't know what to picture for their living space, but actually Calliope taking to carapacian art-deco and giving it a cheruban twist really works!

"That’s what keeps Jade Harley flitting from couch to couch, relationship to relationship. She can’t stop thinking to herself that “home” comes awfully close to rhyming with “alone.”" Home Alone, huh?

"Home is John, who doesn’t call anymore. Home is when Rose and Kanaya welcome her in from a cold night and help her set lyrics to her sick basslines. Home is here, snorting at Roxy’s irreverent method of storytelling and admiring Callie’s art. Home is Dave and Karkat." This REALLY reminds me of the Tramp, as he had a home in every street he frequented.

"ROXY: im alls ABOUT the sowing of discord among my childhood friends" She's had quite her fill of the dramas. That's a valid reason to stay out of it. She'll just have to weight it against the downsides of not influencing the outcome of the election in any positive way.

"JADE: dirk got to you first ROXY: not even ROXY: i got no problem tellin dirk where to stick it lmao ROXY: but dirks not the one running JADE: you think hes NOT the one pulling the strings behind the scenes? ROXY: sure but give janey a lil credit" On the one hand I'm glad Roxy's got such a backbone, on the other hand, off course we know Dirk's still influencing the outcome at the moment. Also, uh, he's got no issues invading the lives of his friends personally, even after telling us off on the subject first.

"ROXY: but shes yknow JADE: ruthless? :B

Roxy frowns. Jade is being pretty unfair." I get the feeling Jade is less good at filtering her words lately. And I also get the feeling Dirk is starting to sow a little conflict.

"ROXY: shes gotta be miss perfect all the time for the billboards n press meetings ROXY: always wearin those power suits trying to look like a big bad bitch JADE: you mean like....... the condesce? ROXY: wow ouch JADE: im not just imagining it though, right??? JADE: you see it too JADE: not to dredge up something horrible from your history JADE: but her whole image is just kinda...... *woof* ROXY: is that what you guys think? ROXY: u and dave and karkat?" It's something they should have brought up via intermediary channels to Jane on beforehand. Not let fester until all they could think of to "stop" her was introduce a late-to-the-party candidate.

Jade might also be doubly upset with Jane for seemingly mirroring the Condesce, as they were both brainwashed by her.

"Roxy leans forward and stares Jade down, like she’s searching for something behind Jade’s eyes." That's the same thing she did with John! Guess she's trying to find out some of her secrets.

"Jade unwittingly responds in kind, looking for meaning behind Roxy’s gaze. But she comes up empty. And to be honest, so do I." That unfathomable personality might be your spanner in the works, Dirk. I can only hope she's secretly onto him. Her Void powers manifest the 'obscurity' different from Equius.

"In the spirit of full disclosure, Roxy’s the only one left I haven’t been able to crack. Her mind remains a total enigma to me, just like it always has." It's interesting, since they share so much in childhood upbringing, progeny, demeanor even at times...

"invisible, even to increasingly omniscient parties such as myself" *coughDocScratchcough* ... What would Reload Roxy be doing right now, assuming the session's timeline didn't stop when Caliborn's soul 'left' it?

"ROXY: but shes not betty crocker ROXY: and i luv her and i dont wanna hurt her feelings" N'aww.

"ROXY: and thats p much all there is to say on the matter" Second time the phrase's been used in the epilogues!

"CALLIOPE: oh, i’d rather stay Uninvolved, thank yoU." Passive player to the brink.

"CALLIOPE: i feel like interfering in both politics and a personal argUment between my friends woUld be impolite as well as kind of... stressfUl, to be honest. JADE: yeah JADE: sorry callie i probably shouldnt have put all that on you CALLIOPE: less apologizing, more snacking!" It's nice to see they're cutting her some slack. A horrible childhood, an early death, a spiel as a ghost... Oh, sure, she's one of the good guys and as such would have some responsibilities in the end, but it's nice for a change they don't expect too much from her. Maybe a bit too little for her own good, but still.

"Calliope claps her hands together. It’s a bright noise. Her tone of voice is bright too. All these years and she still can’t believe that she has so many friends. She smiles at Jade, and Jade smiles back. The tea tastes great. The cakes are even better. Callie’s an artist in everything she does." ^u^ Aww, that warms my heart at least.

"JADE: wow callie youre such an amazing hostess!" ... Well, she's a more excellent host than Doc Scratch, for sure!

"ROXY: psst not “her,” “them”" ... I see! Well, guess we'll be getting some more insight into the androgyn bodies of cherubs and how Calliope has updated her self image over all these years? Caliborn still had the giant eyelashes, so it stands to reason there were also other, more masculine traits to Calliope's body even when she still shared it with her brother.

"JADE: oh wow!" Oh, I figured Jade already knew about Calliope's preferred pronouns, but it seems not!

"CALLIOPE: bUt i did take comfort in “being a girl” for a very long time. this is something i’ve only recently decided." ... I just remembered how Calmasis also was this androgynous figure. ... I wonder if Calliope will be thinking about a name change.

So, I don't think Roxy's haircut is a sign she's genderfluid now too, but I imagine a lot of fanart has already been created for butch!Roxy by the time I read this.

"ROXY: m-me too actually" Oh. N-never mind then. That caught me unaware! I didn't see that in Roxy. For one, despite all the pink and the ponies, she didn't seem like she felt "trapped" in a role to me. Unlike Calliope, where I can see how she might have felt obliged to embrace everything not-Caliborn.

But this does shed a whole new light on Mom's overly childish and girlish bedroom in the lab. Like she was trying to compensate for something. Uhm... It might also be one of the main reasons behind her drinking problem. Her embracing girlish, adult woman habits but never feeling like they 'fit'.

Well well. Homestuck's main characters continue to be representation incarnate.

"Wait.

   What?" PFFFFFFFFFF. I love it. Dirk's reaction is gold. Guess this completely blindsided him too and didn't shed any more lights on the inner workings of her mind than he thought. So even if he knew she was holding something back after the "yea", and maybe encouraged her to keep speaking, he didn't know what to expect.

"Roxy? Seriously?

Like I said, fucking inscrutable." Dirk has NOT just had an "I knew it!" moment.

"I never would have guessed. Not that I’ve spent much time contemplating issues related to gender. I’m pretty secure in my expression of masculinity, and..." That's a suspiciously specific acknowledgement, though, Dirky boy. :P

"You know what? Fuck this. I don’t owe anyone an explanation of any sort on this topic. I’m confident with who I am, what I am, my gender, as well as my understanding of the concept. You want my honest opinion? It’s fucking fantastic. Good for them. Both of them, I mean, but also, both of them in a singular fashion, since each one can now individually be referred to by the conventionally plural word “them.”" Pffff, of all the things. I didn't think this would have Dirk fly off the handle in such a Dave-way, while still narrating, but I'm happy to see it. In an out-of-story sense, Dirk is currently the audience surrogate, showcasing what a "true fanboy"'s reaction could be like, if they were both shocked to the core but mature enough to get over their shock without throwing around accusations and tantrums.

But yeah, at least the aloofness is gone from his voice, for just this time.

"I’m ecstatic for this personal development they’ve embraced, for the people they are, the lack of gender they identify with, and the pronouns they prefer. I’ve got no problem with it whatsoever, and frankly, it’s fucking insulting anyone would ever imagine otherwise." I can picture him speaking through gritted teeth, it's glorious! 'This is good, this is fine. I am doing great!'

"ROXY: ahah hahaha hell of a way to come out" Ooh, so she's not even out to Jane or Rose yet!

"ROXY: what even is gender" That is SUCH a Roxy thing to say. Also, almost stoner like. Picture Gamzee going like (in his quirk): 'Have you ever really THOUGHT about gender, man? I mean, really THOUGHT about it.'

"Jade looks at where her hands are folded in her lap. Bites her lip. She has her own concerns about this, her own thoughts. Reasonable thoughts, I’d say." "ROXY: i mean that was all stuff from our old universe ROXY: whyd we even bring it here right? JADE: right" I think for Jade it's not something she'd discard so easily! I mean, it all depends on whether 'gender' is something antigonal to your self image, in the end, I guess. If it isn't hindering you... that's how you stay heteronormative in some or all elements.

"Calliope takes a teacake between two of her claws and eats it delicately, hyper-aware of the horrible gnashing and snapping her powerful jaw is capable of.

CALLIOPE: my ideas aboUt gend—

SHIT. Between two of /their/ claws." HAH. Oh my god. The narration cut off Calliope. ... Pffff, though it IS a good callout, since I've been using gendered pronouns still to refer to Calliope. Whoops!

"CALLIOPE: i sUppose i only thoUght of myself as a girl because my, Um... CALLIOPE: my brother took mascUlinity qUite serioUsly." A) Still not saying his name :P B) Using his preferred pronouns.

"CALLIOPE: by which i mean, he became very enthUsiastic aboUt all the things it sUpposedly meant to be a boy. CALLIOPE: cherUb existence is dichotomoUs, bUt not in the same way hUman biology is. CALLIOPE: i sUppose oUr view of hUman cUlture indirectly inflUenced alternia’s development, which in tUrn affected yoUrs, which is something i’ve had a lot of time to think aboUt since we came here." Oh right! Lord English & Doc Scratch helped shape Alternia's development, so in a lot of bad ways there was a focus on power and masculinity, which may have trickled down into Earth's because of who created our universe, and thus it might all have been a self fulfilling prophecy, what Caliborn's gender identity is concerned! Guess we were due another one of these loops. :P

"ROXY: so much of what earth c thinks what boys and girls “SHOULD” do comes straight from the imagination of a bunch of dumb teens ROXY: which is totally FUCKED JADE: sure" Yes, and so much of what Earth C "should" be like, as a victory state reward planet, and the epilogues by extension, exists only in the imagination of a bunch of dumb humans spread over this globe. :P I reek a callout. Not undeserved, mind.

"She probably would have loved being a “they” when she was a teen." (Referring to Jade.) I'll grant you that, Dirk. But I thought you were doing paraphrasing other people's thoughts for the course of this conversation?

"i liked the idea of dirk" He'll love to hear that. :P Well, you know, Karkat had the same thing, he loved the idea of Condesce as a powerful leader, if not always the result of that leadership.

"ROXY: and also literally no one else on the entire planet was alive at the time

ROXY: but we had some babies without even bein consulted about it anyway so w/e" Context!

"JADE: personally im a big fan!

And like that, Jade’s smiling again." Nothing like Dave & Karkat to lift her mood. :P

"The storm clouds pass so quickly in her world, you almost wouldn’t have thought there was anything wrong at all. Roxy and Calliope certainly didn’t notice.

But there is something wrong. And this time, they’ll notice." Uhhh, wrong with Jade? Or something wrong with Earth C in general? Besides Dirk taking over, I mean. Oh no! ... Calliope left the kettle on! :P

"JADE: i... JADE: i.........

Jade drops her tea. The cup hits the floor and shatters." ... Is she passing out?? Just like Rose??

... Oh no. This doesn't have anything to do with John going back, retconning the timeline, and some of their selves being killed right? It shouldn't influence them, since they're from a different timeline, but with the talk about canon and relevance and truth and shit...

Is Dave going to pass out next???

Did John accidentally change the Reload timeline to be the alpha one, and is the future adjusting to the changes??? Or is it due to something to do with Lord English' powers in killing a different 'real' version of them?

"She takes in a sharp breath. She’s not feeling well suddenly. She’s dizzy, feverish, seeing things beyond her field of vision. A blinding flash of light. A black, perfect circle, burning a hole in her eyes." Wow. Just like John, she gets a vision of the Black Hole! So, maybe it's more like she gets backlash from suddenly absorbing the memories of Reload Jade.

"She doesn’t look bad at all— Jade wears unconsciousness well, having spent the better part of her life napping." Aaaand we're back in sleeping beauty terrain.

"But she can’t hear her. Jade is somewhere else right now." Uhhhhh. I thought they didn't really dream in the dreambubbles post-victory no more?? Also, those were all destroyed by LE, anyway.

Dang. That's weird.

Are the B1 kids (adults) actually going to be gathering in the Furthest Ring in 'person'? But why, and how? ... There isn't anything like a 'dreambubble self' body that persists in the Furthest Ring that John could have woken up like how you could wake people up on Derse and Prospit. ... Now I'm reminded of an old fanart I made of a green moon circling the Green Sun, with green dream selves for all humans & trolls we knew at the time (B1 and A2). :P

#homestuck #upd8 #reaction #homestuck liveblog #homestuck epilogues #spoiler alert #roxy lalonde #jade harley #calliope

[wasneeplus]

Responding to the Alt-Right playbook, part 1

Disclaimer: I wrote this after seeing the first four minutes of the video. While watching the rest I noticed a few things I bring up are addressed later, though in such a way as to lead to even more questions. Still, I think most of it stands, and it’s still useful as a kind of stream of consciousness response, so I’ll leave it untouched.

Sometimes, in the wee hours of the morning when I just finished reading my newspaper, I will enjoy myself with a few infuriating youtube videos. Lately I’ve been quite disillusioned by the part of youtube calling itself liberal spouting nationalist propaganda at my beloved European project, so I’ve switched to some corners of the website which are friendlier to my blood pressure. That’s how I came across a video called "The Alt-Right Playbook: The Card Says Moops” by Innuendo Studios. Apparently he is somewhat of a big deal with his 150k plus subscribers, though I never heard of him. Just two minutes into the video though I knew I was going to write this response. While it didn’t make me angry the way I might have been in the past, there’s just so much wrong here, I cant bottle this up any longer.

Say, for the sake of argument, you’re online blogging about a black journalists’ commentary on marketing trends in video games, movies and comic books and you’re saying how the vitriol in response to her fairly benign opinions reveals the deep seated racism and misogyny in a number of fan communities, most especially those that lean right,...

Quite an unlikely scenario since I’m not in the business of assuming ones leanings on race, gender or politics based on their opinions on movies, games or comic books, but let’s roll with it I guess.

...When a right leaning commenter pops in to say: “Or maybe they just actually disagree with her about marketing trends! For Christs sake, there’s no mystery here. People aren’t speaking in coded language. They are telling you wat they believe. She had a bad opinion. Why do you have to make it bigger than that? Why can’t you ever take people at their word?”

Here’s where I feel validated in making this response, because while I don’t consider myself right leaning, as hard as that might be to believe for some, this is exactly the kind of response I might have given. So props to Innuendo Studios for accurately portraying an argument of one of his opponents. Unfortunately he then continues:

You pause and ponder this for a moment. Hmmm. Uh heck with it! You’re in a discoursing mood. Let’s do this! Mister conservative, in order for me to take you at your word your words would have to show some consistency. Let me just lightning-round a few questions about the reactionary web’s positions on marketing trends.

The first major problem should be obvious to anyone right about now. How is anyone supposed to answer for the “reactionary web”? Hell, I don’t even know what that’s supposed to be. The caricature in the video wears a 4chan logo on its chest, so maybe he’s referring to the /pol/ imageboard. Well, I don’t hang out there, and I’m pretty sure most of the people who would have been critical of that opinion piece don’t either. Therefore I feel justified in ignoring that particular remark and just give my own answers to these questions. After all:  the people on /pol/ are clearly not the only ones he’s talking to at this point.

Do you believe that having the option to romance same sex characters in an rpg turns the game into queer propaganda...

No. On a side note though: the video at this point shows an image of the game Mass Effect. I remember when that game came out there was some controversy over the game showing sex scenes between the characters. Remember that this was but a few years sine the GTA hot coffee mod upheaval, so people where a bit more sensitive about such things. But never have I heard anyone complain about the same sex romance options. I can imagine there were a few disapproving voices but I never came across them, even though I followed the launch very closely at the time.

...or do you believe that killing strippers in an action game can’t be sexist because no one’s making you do it?

I believe it can be sexist, but I never seen an example of it actually being sexist. Not because no one makes you do it, though. It’s because the amount of strippers killed in video games pales in comparison to the amount of other people killed. I’m willing to bet that video games depict more men being killed by women than the other way around, with the vast majority being male on male killings. The fact that there’s one or two games where a man has the option to kill some female sex workers hardly seems significant in that light.

Do you believe that the pervasiveness of sexualised young women in pop culture is just there because it sells and that’s capitalism and we all need to deal with it...

Yes, for the most part. I guess one can add a few nuances here and there, but that about covers the gist of it.

...or do yo believe that a franchise has an obligation to cater to its core audience even if diversifying beyond that audience is more profitable?

Ooh boy, where do I start? Okay, first of all: those two are not mutually exclusive. I know there is this pervasive idea in some parts of western culture that people can only identify with others of the same sex, race and/or cultural background, but that’s just not true. As such it’s perfectly possible to be both diverse and give your core audience what they want. Criticism of a failure to do the second does not automatically translate to criticism of succeeding at the first. Where the two usually meet is when creators use the first as an excuse to take away from the second, either because of their own incompetence or their disinterest in the franchise they are working on. 

Which brings us to our second point: while diversity does not have to hurt a franchise, too often creators are too lazy to put effort in making sure it doesn’t because they haven’t got their priorities straight. They think that covering their bases in terms of diversity is the most important thing and everything else is an afterthought. The movie Star Wars: The Last Jedi, who’s cast is partly depicted in the video at this point, is actually a perfect example of this. No one thought Finn and Rose were such interesting characters that audiences wanted to see an entire subplot devoted exclusively to them. They were clearly there just to tick some boxes, not because of a creative spark that led an artist to lovingly craft these characters. The result was perhaps the most universally despised part of the movie, at least among hardcore fans. And yeah, they do deserve a bit more consideration than any other demographic, don’t you think? They are the ones who made this into a franchise to begin with. Without them this movie wouldn’t even have been made.

Lastly: there is a reason the saying “get woke, go broke” exists. If Rose was just there to appeal to Asian markets that would be one thing. I do think there’s something to the idea that putting characters of the same race as the target audience in your movie makes them easier to market. The thing is though: it didn’t work! The movie bombed in China, and I think that’s also because of the messages the creators were trying to send. To take a timeless hero’s journey narrative like Star Wars and try to insert current events and political messages in it just can’t end well. Yet, the creators persisted, and this is reflective of a lot of the culture behind those narratives. When a political message becomes the driving force behind the creative process it’s almost certain to produce sub par results. A creator has to be extremely talented to pull this off, and lets face it: most aren’t up to the task. Instead the art devolves into soulless political propaganda, and this is what stings people who love the franchise so much. Me personally, I am a big fan of making the political personal when you want to convey a political message. We can identify with personal struggles much more than with abstract political ideas. So characters should always be the focus, even if you want to make a statement.

Do you think words are inherently harmless and only oversensitive snowflakes would care about racialised language...

Words? Yes. The ideas expressed by those words? No. That’s why intention is so important to me, and the “oversensitive snowflakes” who focus on just the words are so not helping the debate in my opinion.

...or do you think it’s racist if someone calls you mayonaise boy?

Probably, yes. Though I can’t think of any reason why someone would call me that, other than to insult me by way of my race. On the other hand, I do really like mayonaise...

And as long as I’ve got your ear: are you the party that believes in the right to keep and bear arms because you’re distrustful of all authority and what if we need to overthrow the government some day...

No, no and no. I am not a party, nor am I affiliated with any party that espouses those kinds of opinions on the possession of arms. I personally do not believe in the right to bear arms, though I’m not especially passionate about it one way or the other. I guess being Dutch means I'm not really caught up in any debate surrounding arms, since it’s a bit of a non-issue here. Also: while I think authority should always be scrutinised, I wouldn’t characterise this as distrust.

...or do you believe that cops are civil servants and we should trust their account of events whenever they shoot a black man for looking like he might have a gun.

Well, aren’t cops civil servants? I seem to remember so. Anyway, I don’t think “looking like they might have a gun” is ever a good excuse to shoot anyone, so there you have it. Do keep in mind that we send cops out on the street partly to use force in neutralising dangerous individuals, so we shouldn’t be surprised when that gets out of hand sometimes. But honestly, I am not well informed enough on this topic to know how much trust to put in any side of this issue. I think looking at this on a case by case basis is the only thing we can do.

Does optional content reveal a game’s ideology, or doesn’t it?

Not necessarily, no

Is capitalism a defence for decisions you don’t agree with, or isn’t it?

That’s a rather broad statement. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. It depends on what you are trying to defend.

Is language harmful, or not?

If you use it to promote harmful ideas, then yes.

Do you hate authority, or love cops and the troops?

Neither, really. I don’t hate authority just for being authority, and if anything soldiers and cops invoke pity in me. I guess that comes from growing up with  a PTSD ridden veteran for a father.

Well, that’s the end of the questions. One might think I wasted a lot of time going through that, because shortly afterwards he goes on to say:

Now, I know the right is not a monolith and maybe these arguments are contradictory because they’re coming from different people.

Gee, you think? However, what then follows is an excuse to lump al these people together anyway.

We’ll call them Engelbert and Charlemagne. Maybe Engelbert’s the one who thinks any institution funded by tax money is socialist and therefore bad, and Charlemagne’s the one who says we should dump even more tax money into the military and thinking otherwise is unamerican.

I happen to hold neither of those opinions. Yes, it is actually possible to completely stand behind the hypothetical statement you made in the beginning of the video, and not subscribe to typical right wing convictions like that. But I know that there are people who do, so let’s see where his is going.

But here’s the thing: y’all have have very fundamentally different beliefs and you’re so passionate bout them that you’re entering search terms into twitter to find people you don’t even follow and aggressively disagree with them...

That’s quite a lot of assumptions there mate. I don’t think this is even a remotely fair representation of your opposition. Certainly not true for me. I don’t even have a twitter account (no, I wasn’t kicked off. I never had an account there to begin with), let alone do I ever browse that website. Putting that aside though, how do you know if there’s anyone who actually does this? People can retweet things after all; maybe that’s how they find the contentious twitter users. I found your video because youtube recommended it, and I clicked on it because the title intrigued me. I didn’t set out to look for things to disagree with, despite my quips at the beginning of this piece.

...and yet you’re always yelling at me, and never yelling at each other.

Certainly not true either. I've had quite a few online arguments with alt-righters, who in my opinion differ from actual Nazi’s in only slight and insignificant ways, and fervent nationalists. Of course that’s never going to garner the kind of attention as when Sargon of Akkad sends a mean tweet to a female politician. Speaking of Carl, his vicious disagreement with the alt-right is well documented, and their hatred for him caused quite a few equally vicious attacks against him and his family. But I don’t blame you for not knowing that. The majority of both of their vitriol is still directed at the extreme left, and why shouldn’t it? I don’t think there is an extremist position so pervasive in the western media these days. Again: there is no alt-right equivalent of Star Wars: the Last Jedi, because none of those people work in Hollywood, or anywhere else of note (with the possible and unfortunate exception of the white house).

...and I can’t say how often it happens, but I know if I let Engelbert go on long enough he sometimes makes a Charlemagne argument and vise versa.

Either you’re saying that both of them contradict themselves while framing it in quite an unnecessarily suggestive way, or you’re displaying a rather tribalist mindset in which worldviews can never overlap. Either way, I don’t think the following statement is justified...

See, I don’t take you at your word because I cannot form a coherent worldview out of the things you say.

The fault might lie with you in this case I’m afraid. The reason I went over those questions in the beginning is to show that it is perfectly possible to have consistent views on all of those issues and still be counted among those who would oppose you on this one. I don’t think you really know who it is that you’re projecting all this on. You think my worldview has to have inconsistencies if I disagree with you on the nature of the discourse surrounding popular media, but you’ve yet to correctly identify any. I think the saying “truth resists simplicity” is one you should tale to heart a lot more. Case in point:

Why are you so capable of respecting disagreement between each other yet so incapable of respecting me, or, for that matter, a black woman.

While that may seem like a coherent statement at a first glance, it actually betrays an incredibly simplistic way of looking at things. You see, you’re comparing three entirely different things one can respect: the fact of genuine disagreement between two parties, you, an individual person, and any given black woman, that is: a demographic. The first has to be respected, otherwise discourse is impossible. Though it must be said that me and the alt-right probably have very little respect for each others motivations, but unlike you the alt-right doesn’t ever really ask for my respect. The second deserves respect only when earned, and the third deserves neither respect nor disparagement, because it’s an incredibly varied group of people, some of whom deserve respect and some of whom don’t.

It kinda seems like you’re playing games and I’m the opposing team, and anyone who’s against me is your ally...

That entirely depends on what we’re talking about, doesn’t it? If we’re talking about diversity in media and the issues surrounding it, I will find myself on one side of the board surrounded by people I would usually disagree with, and you would find yourself on the other side, presumably only surrounded by people who agree with you one hundred percent of the time. It seems you think it a bad thing that people can temporarily overcome their differences when faced with a common problem. That’s why some call you radical: you cannot ally with anyone who isn’t in complete lockstep with you, because they are not pure enough in their conviction. But that’s what fracturing societies are made of, so if you don’t mind I’ll stick to my methods. If that leaves you outnumbered on your side of the board it’s because you chose to champion a very unpopular opinion, and I can’t help that.

...and you’re not really taking a position, but claiming to believe in whatever would need to be true in order to score points against me.

If I did that then why even bother engaging with me? Clearly I don’t actually believe anything I say, so there’s no need to convince me otherwise. Are you sure it’s me who is supposed to have contradictory opinions? But in all seriousness, I don’t see why I would ever adopt such a strategy unless I’m either just a troll or addicted to arguments, and hey: there are people like that, but they don’t represent your entire political opposition. Get a grip.

After that we get the title drop, which, I have to admit, was really clever and amusing. I never watched Seinfeld, but maybe I should. Anyway, my free Saturday is passing me by like a speeding train, so I will continue this later.... maybe.

#innuendo studios #alt-right #chan culture #SJW

[matingsaliva-blog]

If Anything Happens to me, Know that I Still Care About You Deeply

We’re going to the grocery store. I haven’t felt good for the past day and a half because I took pills on an empty stomach and driving around the sickening back roads of Philly have been giving me a headache. I don’t want to tell you so I just say that Lincoln Drive is making me dizzy and you pretend to understand. I don’t want to talk about it so this answer comes as a huge relief. I’m nauseous I tell you. I only tell you that because I’m afraid my insides may explode and I don’t want to throw up in your car because that has never been a good impression no matter how many times someone says it’s okay. This isn’t the end of the world. But to me, it is.

I feel bad and I can tell you genuinely care about my well-being, which sort of annoys me. I change the subject again. My face is plastered to the window and the frozen winter dew is outlining a really abstract rendition of my face. I get self conscious that even this amorphous natural phenomenon has chosen to distort what little pride I have in my looks. I am a silhouette of dripping window droplets. I say they should repave the roads. I think you’re annoyed that I don’t particularly say that to anyone and certainly without conviction. You notice things like that. You think that I should have a world’s worth of captivating and contributing thoughts when I speak into the void. It’s an observation and I have to internalize the loss. You agree. You say it without much substance, probably to mirror me. Obviously it has never occurred to you.

We pass the road where my dad used to work. I point out the factory. It is across from Laurel Hill Cemetery. For some reason I imagine him on the factory belt line taking specimens of ink and saying “Yes, this ink is good. Thanks team” but part of me thinks that he wasn’t that team-centric or even well-mannered. But he was liked, very much, from what I know. I wonder if he ever wandered over to the cemetery or at least just appreciated that it was there. Maybe he should have been buried here.

I’ve sat there listening to commercial trains screech their way through long expanses of suspended bridges over highways at this spot. I wonder if he heard this too. It was so loud. But not just loud in a way that you can ignore, it was invasive and I bet he blocked it out over the 40 years that he had worked there. Clocking out as a greasy, rail-thin but respected man as the trains rubbed their metal against the tracks. I admire that.

I say they should really repair these roads, again, to engage you. We’re hitting potholes and bumps which is hard to continuously ignore. You agree. Again. I don’t know how I want this conversation to go. I think about bringing up a memory of my dad but every time that I do, nobody knows how to act. They want to dress me in sympathy and say sorry and I want to tell them that it’s been a very long time. It’s fine. Time will tell how it has cured or destroyed me but that will come at various and uncomfortable times and I want you to be prepared. So I say nothing. You look at it as the stark and surgical demeanor I’ve chosen for you to glimpse into and that’s all that I can give to you. It isn’t suppressed, I just don’t have time for it. Not now. But people pry, they want to pluck me and remove it from me because they think I live with it in an extreme way. Actually, the day-to-day is a lot harder, in all honestly. I keep this to myself, too.

Later when I get to know you, I’ll relay that this this is okay to joke about. My biggest fear is that my sadness cannot become a joke that I can laugh about. It just takes time to get there. I need to stand perched above it all like an orator and decide which pieces are okay and most of the time anything goes, (unless it’s about how I don’t deserve to be loved because I have too many problems that one singular person cannot handle on their own.) This might concern you a little bit, given the context. We talked about my life insurance policy while we were driving one night and I laughed and said that I probably don’t have much of a chance. I said something like “at this point, they probably won’t cover me or it’ll at least be very expensive given my inability to want to stay alive.” I’m not responsible enough to even think about that yet and you tell me that your parents set yours up with their disposable income and as much as my family loves me, there’s definitely a line.

You laughed shyly when I said this and I told you it was okay. I made a really dark joke the other night and you laughed uncomfortably, again, but that’s all I could have hoped for. You let it be and chalked it up to one of my many social misfires that you’ve chosen to find endearing right now. Because you like me and I’m pretty and i try very hard to be functional around you. You said that it’s funny how I compose this dark and morose life as a protective blanket so that I have something to fall back on, but that I seem happy most of the time. I laughed this time. If i even begin to argue this point, i will sound like a 13-year old goth kid pissed off at my parents for not dropping me off at the mall on a Friday night. I guess that’s a privilege, or I should be more of an absolute garbage crying child so that you see my true self catapulting toward legitimate moments of truly wanting to die. I like you though, but I can live without you. I shatter inside and my heart-to-brain artery sort of stops functioning.

We’re almost at the store. I know that I don’t really want to go in. I’m holding my head in my hands and I’m smiling at the funny things you say because I know you’re checking. You need instant gratification and I don’t mind. I have to remind myself that you’re doing me a favor and that i should be grateful. I have to relearn these emotions, I need to feel them rather than acknowledge that they exist. I ask you if it’s okay if i stay in the car, I have to make a phone call. You say absolutely. You leave and I open the notes in my phone

1. Buy more things that excentuate my tits 2. Collect decorative boxes 3. Buy apple butter from Whole Foods 4. The abcs of socialism? 5. Bankfujzzy (idk what that means) 6. Pink silk ribbon 7. The Girl with Curious Hair by David Foster Wallace 8. An objectively shitty poem 9. A thought “You could have hung out with jocks in high school but you chose art instead and that made you a very sensitive girl.”

Theres nothing of value in these lists. I know you’ll take your time in the store because you have to check all of the food labels. I have time to kill. I will make up a fake conversation in a few minutes about how my nephew was being a dick and my mom called me because she was upset. This will validate my extreme adversity to entering public places. I lean back in the seat and close my eyes. I can feel my eyes water and the eyeliner forming drops in my cornea. I close my eyes and let it flow out. Everyone says my eyes are red all the time anyway. I am going for the Sky Ferrieira look but without all of the other shit. They’re flowering. It’s okay.

“Remember when you drinking whiskey and you told me that I had said the nicest thing to you that anyone had ever said to you?” “Vaguely.” “You were talking about poetry. I told you that you seem really happy, your demeanor changes. When you talk about things that you’re passionate about, it makes me happy. I could listen to you talk for hours. “Yeah that’s still the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me.” “I thought you said it because you were drunk.”

My hair is so greasy I can feel the grime burning my eyes and yet I feel considerably fine just knowing I have a very nominal control over it in the privacy of my own home. Sometimes the smells let me know that my body has had experiences and I embrace that I moved through it without dwelling on my self worth. I drop into puddles of reflections of me. When I’m compartmentalizing. There will be a debate if any of this is really worth fixing. And I will respect your decision. Always.

[literateape]

Greasing the Squeakiest Wheel is a Waste of Time

Genuine customer complaints to a major super market chain in Chicago:

"Guacamole was wayy too spicy! This is why [MAJOR CHAIN] is closing stores!"

"Customer stopped by the desk to say that he was unhappy that he was directed to the water station to get water because that water cup doesn't have a cup and a lid. He says the people working at [MAJOR CHAIN] are nice, but he doesn't understand why he’s directed to the water fountain instead of just being handed a cup of water with a lid and straw. He says he will be shopping somewhere else now."

"I HATE this store! I asked 3 people where I could find the Bhakti Chai and I never found it. I've wasted 20 minutes of my time at least and I'm still thirsty!"

In my decade of dealing with the public radio crowd, I encountered the phenomenon of the relentless complainer on more than a few occasions. I understand the legitimate complaint—not receiving a pledge drive premium or encountering a mistake in the ticketing for Wait Wait...Don't Tell Me! but the reaction of public radio to the endless bitching from a tiny constituency of people who, for some deep-seated reason, must complain about anything and everything in order to be heard was maddening.

Years ago, I was charged with producing the first Millennium Park taping of WWDTM. Huge outdoor venue, free seats, union labor, lots of plates in the air to spin. One of my responsibilities was to wrangle up volunteers to assist in traffic control of the huge crowd. I put out the all-call request. I received a lot of eager volunteers who were excited to be a part of the experience.

Among them was Don Evans.

Don wanted to volunteer but wanted to know if A) he would get a good seat for the show, B) if volunteers would get backstage access, C) if volunteers could expect to be fed, and D) if parking downtown would be validated. All legit questions if not belying his reasons for offering his time and energy. He was a regular donating member, he assured me, and was very excited about the opportunity.

I answered these questions to all the volunteers in an email: A) No. Volunteers would be expected to be on their feet for the duration. B) No. Backstage access was to be limited to staff only. C) Yes. There would be pizzas delivered for volunteers to enjoy before the show began. D) Yes. The MP staff will be providing us with parking vouchers for selected garage spaces and I would give them out as volunteers checked in.

Long story short, the MP staff failed to provide the parking vouchers. I explained to all of the volunteers that, while I did not have the vouchers, parking in a specific garage would only be $10 but that I would recommend taking mass transit if that was a hardship.

Don was late. Late enough to not be given much to do, late enough to miss the pizza, but not late enough to sit and watch the show.

A week after the event, I received four emails and two phone calls indicating that I owed him $10 for his parking. I informed him that I could not reimburse him but that we appreciated his sacrifice. Not good enough. He wanted that $10 and he proceeded to email and call the station, NPR, our Philanthropy Department, my boss, Board Members and Torey Malatia in pursuit of what he felt was rightfully owed him.

His frustration at being denied this money boiled over into hyperbolic language as if refusing to reimburse him this $10 amounted to a violation of all the principles public radio stood for. I was a liar and an opportunist. I was taking advantage of members. I was a bad person for denying him his reimbursement for parking. This went on for six weeks.

I tried to reason with Don. It was, after all, only ten dollars and he did see the show without having to do any work as he was late. As a volunteer, his tardiness basically made him just an audience member. It was, in his mind, about principle, not money.

Finally, I was instructed to pay him the $10 just to grease this squeakiest of wheels. There was no budget line for this sort of thing (which is why it was difficult to process in the first place) so I just paid him out-of-pocket as it was just easier to give him ten bucks than listen to him bitch. I found out a bit later that Don Evans was, indeed, a donating member. He had, the previous year, donated... $10... and then was angry that he couldn't get a subscription to The Atlantic because the premium was for $10 a month rather than for $10 in total. He got his subscription anyway because he was relentless in his pursuit of that subscription.

There will always be folks like Don Evans in the world. Blowing up anything they can find to complain about. Demanding to be heard because being heard and attended to fills some void in their lives. Going to a grocery store and threatening to never shop there again because he had to fill his cup of water himself. There is no appeasement, no effort great enough to stop these broken wheels from sounding off.

***

Dana Schutz is politely unrepentant. The artist knew she’d waded into controversial territory when she depicted Emmett Till, the African-American teenager who was famously lynched to death by bigots in 1955, in her abstract Open Casket painting.

“You think maybe it’s off limits, and then extra off limits,” Schutz says in this week’s New Yorker. “But I really feel any subject is O.K., it’s just how it’s done.”

Ever since the painting went up at the Whitney Biennial almost three weeks ago, it has become a lightning rod in the war on cultural appropriation, with protesters arguing in an open letter that Schutz, a white artist, had exploited black suffering “for profit and fun.” (Schutz, however, had previously made clear that she never intended to sell the painting.)

The painting, along with six other artworks, has been temporarily removed from view because of a water leak—and is due to be remounted today.

Within days of the Biennial’s opening, dozens of artists had signed an online petition calling for Schutz’s painting to be excised from the exhibition and subsequently destroyed, ensuring it never re-enter the art market.

SOURCE

Calls for the painting to be excised and destroyed? Seriously?

When it comes down to idiots dressing up in offensive costumes or mega-rich artists using cultural iconography to sell their videos and even the obvious whitewashing of an awful lot of the entertainment industry, the point is clear. These are all legitimate complaints and problems to be solved.

To even level the accusation that an artist who made it clear the artwork would not be made for sale painted a work depicting the death of Emmett Till "for profit and fun" is ridiculous. To insist that only black artists are somehow culturally allowed to comment on black culture is lunacy.

***

The squeaky wheels continue, however, despite the ludicrous lengths they must go to make their points.

Local gadfly and identity politics zealot Ricardo Gamboa posts this on Facebook recently:

The complaint is rooted in the need for more Black, Latino, Hispanic, Asian, Muslim, Queer and Trans people to be included on Chicago stages but the extremes he goes to illustrate this need is almost Onion-like in it's asinine suggestion that without full representation of every single possible group, a theater is merely a 'colonial' theatre.

Gamboa is known for his comedy so it might be fair to assume that this hyperbole is simply a bit but I doubt it. What about equal representation of disabled folks? Chicago has the largest population of Polish people anywhere but Poland, so what about equal representation of Polish people? The blind?  Little people? The Weight Challenged? Homeless?

His screed is no more relevant to Chicago theatre than the lady who decided she hates a grocery store because the "Guacamole was wayy too spicy!"

There is harm, however, in paying heed to the complaining wheels. Eventually, the machine gets bogged down trying to address even the most mindlessly stupid complaints that the legitimate ones are ignored. Unfortunately, the Internet has opened up a world of a billion soap boxes with no discrimination as to how crackpotted or full of shit the orator might be.

Given that there will always be squeaky wheels in society—from Flat Earthers to vehement racists to those who firmly believe they were abducted by aliens—the best policy is to ignore them. They will always have an audience and, for a variety of reasons, small squads of people who wholeheartedly agree with them. I'm quite certain that, if put to a test, there are at least 121 people on Facebook pissed that they couldn't find the Bhakti Chai in a chain store.

Like the specter of alternative facts proliferated by our executive branch, the relentless bitching about tinier and tinier things need to be seen in the light of context and common sense, and wholly ignored.

#culture of complaint #squeaky wheels #Idiot America #Chicago Theater #Ricardo Gamboa #crackpots #guacamole

[encountr]

Artist Interview: Imogen Walker & Kerry McSweeney

This post is a written interview with Imogen Walker and Kerry McSweeney, BA Fine Art Students at LJMU. I recently attended both of their exhibitions, held as part of their university course: Imogen created a piece titled ‘Blind Perception’ which was displayed at the Walker Art Gallery for the ‘Nuality’ Exhibition. Kerry exhibited her piece, ‘Ecclesial’, at the ‘Tunnels’ exhibition held in the tunnels underneath St. George's Hall. • Would you please introduce yourself with a brief artist statement: description of your artistic style, what interests you in regard to the work you make etc? I: I’m Imogen. I’m a fine art student and I make a variety of different pieces. They used to be very painterly, I used a lot of paint and used to be more of the realism style. I then moved into abstract, materials and textures: what they mean and don't mean. Hiding things in materials, hiding things in galleries. The work I've been doing at the moment is more about the ideas behind the work. I find that working collaboratively is nice because it gets the ideas flowing. I also like to jot things down in a notebook to see where ideas can go and use mind maps. I’ve done installation works. I'm just doing a variety of different things at the moment to find out what my artist practice is. K: Hi, I'm Kerry and am also a fine artist at LJMU. My style is similar to an extent. I like painting, sculpture and installation art, which is probably my favourite but I'm in to conceptual things at the moment as opposed to physical work. I: I like a bit of everything K: We have quite similar interests and styles. • Explain what these exhibitions you have just exhibited in are, eg. What the reason for it/ brief was? K: Honestly there was no brief and that's why it was so hard. I: I think the brief was concerning the different venues more than anything. We had to create work to fit the venue, with the Walker anyway we had to create pieces which were in response to the work in the gallery and the building itself. • Yes, we will talk about this later on as well, but I think your work did fit in to the environment. For example, Kerry’s religious theme in the tunnels because it felt like a religious environment, with the architecture of tall arches and the space echoed. I: Yes, it used to be a courthouse/ prison- people died there. Lots of people probably prayed to god for their life, when people are reaching the end of their life they get very religious don't they? K: That is true but it was a very open brief. It was like you can come up with a response if you want but otherwise.. it was very scary because you could just do whatever and explore whatever theme you wanted to . It was quite hard. • Give a description of the work you created for the exhibition, eg. Concept behind them, what you physically made. K: We started together then went off in our own ways. I: The first talk I went to at the Walker, the lady talked about the art that's stored which no one sees for years and if this make it more or less valuable because no one sees it for so long and people forget that it exists. And I was interested in that. And I like to speak to Kerry about things and we both thought it was an interesting idea. And then we just liked the idea of value in general and what it means, the different meanings behind it, different values and stuff. K: I think it was nice because it’s so broad you can do so much within it but it’s a starting point. And then we spoke about it and went off in our own way. Well at the start we did similar things such as: are things valuable? Why are objects valuable? Then I just went off into mine. I: Yes and what does value mean? Who decides what is more and less valuable? • So Kerry you made this religious shrine set up with your work. Can you talk about this a bit-what objects you made and put together, and describe what it physically looked like. K: It was an installation piece. It had lots of Lambrini bottles painted with gold leaf and little objects that were personal to me on the bottles. It had 2 plinths, a projector, little rocks that said works like ‘religious’, ‘freedom’ and ‘consume’. There was a tree with lights. The video was of me and my friend, Chris, worshipping a Lambrini bottle on a mountain. It was inspired by a video I saw at the Tate exchange of a man doing yoga positions on a sacred mountain/temple location. • Imogen would you like to describe yours. I: There was golden objects, 3D geometric shapes hidden around the room. • You both used gold objects a lot, what was the significance of this? I: I think it was sort of linking the works together and looking at the idea of value. K: Yeah- what makes something valuable, how easy it is and why people perceive certain things as more valuable than others. I: If they were left as they were, just wooden… K: They would be dismissed and unnoticed, and it's to take it and make it special. I: And as well it’s because they were gold people noticed them a lot more when they were hidden in the room, a lot of them were resting underneath objects, on wooden plinths so they would have blended in the background. So even though I was hiding them, if someone did see them it would catch their eye and bring it to attention. And I chose those shapes because I was interested in the meaning behind them and we had a lesson about how different personalities are recognised as different objects. The initial idea was for them to represent specific people but I didn’t get that far with it. If I did it differently I probably would have got different people to choose an object but I didn't have time. K: Imogen was meant to do a performance piece but she wasn't allowed. It was health and safety but I thought it was a bit extreme. She was going to get members of the public to put blindfolds on. I: Yes I had 3 different pieces in the installation, along with the objects being hidden, about if you can't see art, is it still valuable? There were blindfolds on a golden clothes rail and I was going to do a performance piece and put them on people and take them round and describe the works. I think my idea would have worked better with someone who had never been to the Walker gallery before, and then I would describe the work to them and they wouldn't be able to visualise it in their head.. but I wasn’t allowed to do that because it was a health and safety issue. The main idea behind the hidden canvas was that no one knew what was underneath it so they had to guess, so it could have been a really amazing piece of art or not. So it was meant to challenge the view of does it really matter what's underneath it or not? Another student discussed with me the topic of private exhibitions and how rich people buy paintings just for themselves to view. The same idea that if only one person can see it and it’s exclusive, if people don't know it exists or can’t see it or only a select handful can view it, is it still valuable? Or just to say you have it. K: Its quite interesting because it fits in with the religious thing because we were the only ones who knew what was underneath and we created this religion so it turned into an exclusive thing. I: Ideally it would have been a religious painting that was used in Kerry’s work, but our work only ended up being connected by the gold objects. But I feel it was still a collaboration because we share ideas and help each other a lot. K: I also think it’s a collaboration because we were discussing how gallery spaces can be like religious spaces. And you did about the value of art work and mine was about the value of religion but then how people approach artwork the same as they approach religion like a sacred thing, is the same. I: Yes, like religious icons coveted by religious followers and with people really interested in art they see it as amazing. And it relates to the world in general such as with celebrities, that they are almost religious figures that people revere. K: That's sort of what mine was about in the end because it turned into what our religion is and how we don't think we're religious we actually are, because we cant escape the lifestyle that's been put on us in terms of material things. The religion now is to not be religious. It’s that we think we're not being controlled by it but we are. And with religion, to feel good about yourself you do all these nice things to get into heaven- but with us its like ‘stuff’ is our religion. That's why it was about consuming. It's like the way you feel valid about yourself is based on who has the most stuff, money, friends. • For my blog I am focusing on the theme of ‘encounter’, obviously your art works fit in with this very well, were you considering this when making them, and what sort of encounter do you think people had with them? I: I know when I was sitting there invigilating people didn't really know what it was. I think the exhibition was successful but I was taken aback by how many people weren't actually there for the exhibition, they were there to see the work behind it. So it’s like a different encounter because they were looking at the painting behind my work not my work, so was it being ignored? But one of the staff members thought the painting with the sheet was going to be unveiled. So its weird that people expect that something else will happen and this preconceived idea that art is meant to be seen. K: It ties in as well because the works behind have the big names so they are more valuable but why? Because what’s the difference between yours, just because theirs has the name. • So were you thinking about how people would encounter/interact with it when you were making it- because you wanted an interactive element but obviously that didn't happen. I: Yeah a lot of people were asking what was underneath the sheet so it’s a different encounter. K: I think people were excited by it. When I was invigilating it that's what I thought. I also think they assumed the most positive thing. Because they can’t see it so they think something really exciting and interesting is under there. I: It wasn't really about what was underneath, I didn’t care about that. It could have been anything underneath- even a blank canvas. But why would that be less valuable? It has still been made by someone. • How about you Kerry? K: I think I was surprised by it. I wanted to put it at the end of a tunnel because it's like in a church where you walk down to the altar. So it was like a religious encounter. And obviously in prestigious galleries you do feel like that, but in the tunnels it’s less so. And I wanted to put the formalness back in, but in a different way. • Your artwork is inspired by, and depicts religion. It could be debated that religion is not a theme held as highly in contemporary art any more, with people preferring to focus on more modern day issues such as environmental issues or capitalisation. Also people fearing the risk of excluding groups or offending people. What is your opinion on this? I: I feel like there is a place for it today. K: I feel like there should be but I don’t think there is as much. I: It depends what type of person you are because if you're very deeply religious then of course, because your artwork is an expression of you and a part of you. • But neither of you two are religious are you? I: No, but that's the sort of thing that we were thinking about. That we aren't. K: Mine kind of comments on the change that you just mentioned. That we consider ourselves not religious but we are in today's society. I: But then again we've got so much value for the things we are interested in, it’s so easy to see it as a religion. The stuff that you love its part of who you are- so making our own religion. K: I think it’s because we think we have loads of freedom, but we don't really because we are all pushed into the same lifestyle. Also I like religious expression but I wouldn’t necessarily like religious propaganda. I: I think religion is a really nice idea. I just like the spiritual aspect of it, connecting with something you believe is higher than yourself. K: I think it can be nice but I think everyone needs to have the independence to believe what they want. Obviously extremism isn't good. But it’s still good for religious art work to have a place. I: I think it would be really cool to do more modern ideas. Like do an installation piece or something that's really abstract but still connected. Because all the religious art you think about is old paintings. Modern representations of religion in general/spirituality would be really cool. • Also alongside the theme of encounter: do you think it is right to present and display art works in such a way that people react in the same way to them as if they were a religious object? Or does this affect people's encounters in a negative way? K: I prefer interactive art but I think its personal preference. I: I think you only get one aspect of the work if you're just looking at it. K: Yes you don't really experience it. I: I was looking at art for blind people and they get to touch the art. I think that's really interesting using different senses to experience the art work. K: It takes away from it I guess if its covered with glass with security guards. I think it’s negative but it depends on the work. I: And what type of person you are. Because some people might really like to touch it. I really like getting up really close with art work and looking at all the details. And taking pictures as well, why is that a bad thing? Because I feel that every art work is recreated on the internet, like on Google Images, so there will be thousands out there already. • Obviously the Walker already has the prestigious art gallery environment so people would have been quieter, less likely to touch the art work, lots of big names around etc. Do you think your art work would have been more effective if it had been in the tunnels alone. Did it add or detract from it? K: I think it added. I: I would have liked to have been able to make people more interactive wth the work by putting blindfolds on them and involve them more in it. But I think because it was in the Walker environment everyone was being really quiet and just reading the descriptions of the paintings and stuff. Some people did ask me about the work, but I don’t think as many as people in the tunnels would. There wasn't any description by my work but because there was so much other work that was well known around it, whereas in the tunnels people purely came to see your work. K: But I think the themes of your work were really relevant to where it was, whereas it wouldn't have been in the tunnels. I think with all the prestigious paintings around it made sense and it’s easier for people to grasp what you're trying to get at. I: Also all the paintings in the Walker have gold frames so it fitted in really nicely. So I don’t think it added or detracted, the work is going to say something different in each place that it is. It's just like a new piece of work each time. K: Would you have rather gone in the tunnels? I: No honestly I was happy. I would have liked to have been in the tunnels but I like the Walker as well. I think it would have said something completely different if it was in the tunnels. A different encounter. K: I don’t think mine would have worked in the Walker. I: I think mine probably worked best where it was. K: They were quite suited to the environments, I liked mine. Thank you to Kerry and Imogen for making the time to speak to me about their work.