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une-sanz-pluis · 2 months

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I occasionally see Henry IV's treatment of the Mortimer boys as "proof" Richard III had no need to kill the Princes in the Tower and it always strikes me as a false equivalency.

Henry IV had very good reasons to keep the Mortimer boys alive. The Mortimer claim to the throne would not be extinguished by their deaths nor transfer to him, but would devolve upon their Mortimer relatives. Their sister, Anne's claim was eventually used by Richard Duke of York and Edward IV as justification for the Yorkist usurpation of the throne. More relevant to Henry IV's lifetime, however, was the boys' uncle, Sir Edmund Mortimer, whose loyalties appear to have concerned Henry even before he became an ally of the Welsh rebel Owain Glyn Dŵr. The Glyn Dŵr-Mortimer alliance posed a clear risk to Henry, one that would be only worsened should the Mortimer boys have died. Mortimer was out of Henry's reach, unable to be swiftly or easily dealt with. Another interesting facet was Mortimer naming his son after Lionel of Antwerp, from whom the Mortimers derived their claim to the throne. In short, Mortimer was an opponent in open rebellion against Henry, showed clear interest in championing his family's claim to the throne and was also unable to be quickly or efficiently dealt with. Killing the Mortimer boys would have only produced a much greater threat to Henry IV's reign.

Nor was the risk limited to Edmund Mortimer. The Mortimer claim derived through the female line which meant every girl and woman in the family could have passed on her claim to another family. Again, Anne Mortimer and the Yorkist claim is the obvious example but more pertinent to Henry IV was the claim passed from Elizabeth Mortimer (Sir Edmund's sister) to her son, Henry Percy. This Percy was still a child, like the Mortimer boys were, but he was also the son of Henry "Hotspur" Percy and grandson of Henry Percy, 1st Earl of Northumberland, both of whom rebelled against Henry IV. If Henry killed the Mortimer boys and Edmund Mortimer died (naturally or unnaturally), Percy would likely become the next figurehead for the next rebellion, serving as an alternate king. Like Edmund Mortimer, he was also out of Henry's reach, meaning there was no quick and easy way to deal with his claim.

In realpolitik terms, murdering the Mortimer boys would have only created problems for Henry. They were children in Henry's custody, raised side-by-side with Henry's own sons. Any threat they posed was, realistically, small. Their deaths would only allow much more dangerous opponents to inherit their claim and pose a much greater risk to Henry IV. Nor was it workable for Henry to wipe out the entire Mortimer line, including collateral branches, to eliminate the threat. Additionally, the destruction of the Mortimers likely would have backfired terribly on him. The murder of children was considered abhorrent by their society, regardless of any good realpolitik reasoning, and Henry's reputation was already poor. For Henry, the option that gave him the best security was the option he took - he left the Mortimer boys alive.

This is not true for the Princes in the Tower. Leaving aside the debates on their fate, their claim derived from the same source that Richard III's did. When they were declared illegitimate, their claim devolved on Richard. Their death would have only confirmed Richard's right to the throne, especially considering Richard was not interested in championing the claims of Edward IV's daughters or George Duke of Clarence's children.

I am not getting into the debate of whether Richard did/did not kill the Princes because I don't have the time or energy for that. What I am saying, though, is the argument that he may not have killed them because Henry IV didn't kill the Mortimer boys is disingenuous. It was in Henry's best interests to keep them alive because killing them only meant their claim would have passed to more dangerous claimants who had already rebelled against him or were the children of those who had already rebelled against him. Richard III, on the other hand, had no such issue. The Princes' claim posed a threat to him (if they were not a threat, why were they kept imprisoned after they were de-legitimised and why did they mysteriously disappear? Even if one accepts the theory that Richard sent them to the continent or the Princes had no quarrel with their benevolent uncle, he must have done so with great secrecy and for a reason - i.e. he feared that they would be used against him as figureheads for a rebellion). But with Clarence's children both removed from the succession by attainder and in his custody, the claim to the throne that the Princes possessed fell to him, not to any of his enemies. Indeed, the great threat to his reign was the revival of the Lancastrian claim in the form of the future Henry VII.

#henry iv #blog

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isabelpsaroslunnen · 1 year

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[Original date: 5 July 2016]

The more I write, the more I feel that “Oh, but it’s a fantasy world! You’re not actually depicting any real cultures” is not at all useful or productive. For one, if you can’t see the connections between things like Lord of the Rings or A Song of Ice and Fire and medieval Europe, I don’t know what to say to you. They are not direct depictions, but they are very, very evidently rooted in history and culture—and the baggage that comes with them.

It’s true that the connecting fibers are much thinner for some works than others, but while most are not on quite the scale of Middle-earth or Westeros, many follow in that kind of tradition. Speaking as a writer—in my day job (such as it is), I study early modern and eighteenth century British literature, and my interest in those periods constantly pervades my fiction. I did as much historical research for the first chapter of my fantasy novel as for straightforward historical fiction, because many aspects absolutely are drawn straight from history.

At the same time, of course, it is a fantasy and a secondary world, and those are never going to be directly equivalent.

For instance, ASOIAF is obviously and unabashedly inspired by the Wars of the Roses, enacted across a continent rather than one small island, but the Starks and Lannisters are not simply fantasy versions of the Yorks and Lancasters. During the Wars of the Roses, both families were Plantagenets, branches of the royal house of England with rival claims to the throne. In ASOIAF, neither the Starks nor Lannisters have any direct claim to the Iron Throne at all—we see the Plantagenet vs Plantagenet dynamic more with the deposed Targaryens vs their Baratheon cousins who won the previous phase of the conflict.

The Baratheons’ ebullient warrior-king, Robert, is probably most comparable to Edward IV, and his beautiful, ambitious wife to Elizabeth Woodville. However, Cersei Lannister is altogether a wilder, more amoral figure than Elizabeth, and Robert marries her out of political expediency rather than Edward’s passion for the unsuitable Elizabeth. Also unlike Elizabeth, Cersei triumphs over the austere northern lord who would strip power from her and her children, where Elizabeth lost the immediate battle to Richard of Gloucester—a far more ambiguous figure than Ned Stark.

In character, Cersei is perhaps more akin to the Lucrezia Borgia of legend, if not history. She comes with an ambitious, highly intelligent father who ruthlessly uses all his children (Tywin Lannister/Alexander VI), an incestuous brother-lover locked into an order that denies him an inheritance (Jaime Lannister/Cesare Borgia), and a second, widely loathed brother (Tyrion Lannister/Juan Borgia).

The parallels aren’t exact there, either, though. Cesare’s strategic and administrative brilliance goes to Tyrion, Lucrezia’s overriding loyalty to her family at odds with (in the fictionalized versions) a burgeoning conscience goes to Jaime, and Juan’s incompetent, wild recklessness goes to Cersei.

As far as Wars of the Roses analogues go, Daenerys Targaryen’s place seems to draw nearest to Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond, the future Henry VII. Daenerys and Henry are, respectively, exiled survivors of the deposed branches of the royal family (Targaryen/Lancastrian) who, with local and foreign support, return to reclaim the kingdom. Yet Daenerys is wildly dissimilar from Henry. Even her claim to the throne differs. Where Daenerys is the only surviving, legitimate child of the old king, Henry’s Lancastrian heritage came through an illegitimate and female line, and he had a prudent, restrained personality in general, more like—say, Jon Snow.

That’s ASOIAF. If you jump to Tolkien, it’s not surprising that he linked Gondor to the Byzantine Empire in its decline. Like the Byzantine Empire, Gondor is the surviving half of a once-towering empire, holding on while the other half (Arnor/Holy Roman) loses its territory and decays into little states and feuding communities. The Battle of the Pelennor Fields has striking parallels to the fall of Constantinople, and Tolkien directly referred to Minas Tirith as a take on Constantinople.

Yet again, the parallels are not 1:1, even setting aside the basic fact that it turns out completely differently. Denethor is at most a tragic inversion of Emperor Constantine, but even that seems a stretch. His sons, Boromir and Faramir, don’t plug into any particular historical figures, and the faithful Rohirrim don’t exactly map onto anyone despite their clear Germanic inspiration.

Gondor is also heavily inspired by various regions of Italy, complete with internal strife and ruling princes who have discretion about sending armies to the Pope Steward to defend Rome Minas Tirith. Tolkien insisted that the rejuvenated Gondor at the end of LOTR is not Northern European, but essentially a restored Roman Empire with its seat at Rome. He identified various areas of Italy as the real life counterparts to Gondor, most notably Venice/Pelargir and Assisi/Lossarnach.

However, Gondor is geographically far larger than Italy, large enough to extend to Greece and Turkey, and has influences from ancient Egypt as well. The Egyptian influence lies not only in Gondor’s embalming practices but their massive monuments, their religion (which also has Jewish influences), royal imagery (especially with regard to the crown), and the general trends of Gondorian culture.

None of these, of course, are perfect models of reference—though at least you could legitimately argue that the films’ casting choices for Gondorian Dúnedain weren’t actually accurate to “Tolkien’s vision,” as is often claimed. But these are probably the most recognizable models for Gondor, with strong connections to history—and even with those, the references are multi-layered and flexible.

Essentially: this particular genre of quasi-historical fantasy absolutely draws from real history, sometimes closely, sometimes less so, which makes it perfectly possible to talk about accuracy, appropriation, and so on, in the context of fantasy. At the same time, it’s complicated by the fact that references are never direct and are worked out in the context of their own stories—a complication that is silenced rather than addressed by dismissing the relevance of history.

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beyondthecosmicvoid · 4 years

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~Henry VII: The Red Dragon’s Unlikely Triumph~

Henry’s victory to success is simply amazing due to how far down he was in the line of succession -if he was at all! Of all the Tudors, and don’t get me wrong I love them all! He had the most adventurous life! His life is the stuff of movies and you’ll see why. Henry was born to Edmund Tudor, Earl of Richmond and Margaret Beaufort, heiress of Lancaster in Philippa Gregory’s words. But she was far removed from the line of succession! The Beauforts derived their name from a castle John of Gaunt had in his possession in English occupied French territory. John of Gaunt married three times, the last to his mistress Katherine Swybford. When they married their children were already grown up but by no means less ambitious. In an effort to ingratiate himself with the shifty king Richard II, John betrayed many of his comrades and persecuted anyone who stood against the king, his nephew. In return for his good services, Richard II legitimized all the Beauforts but that’s it. No say if they were inthe succession or not. Later after John died, his firstborn, Henry Bolingbroke ascended to the throne after he deposed Richard. He didn’t overturn Richard’s legislation but added a new restriction: The Beauforts were legitimate in the eyes of the law of men but due to their revious bastard status they were excluded from the line of succession. So bye-bye ambitions. By the time Henry IV’s grandson had issue, this changed altogether. Their descendants were still seen as progeny of a bastard branch (albeit legitimized) of the House of Lancaster but their status had changed overnight as support build around the Duke of York and his Neville relations (who also descended from the Beaufort line, but through the female line). Henry VI betrothed his young relation, Margaret Beaufort to his half brother Edmund Tudor. He was thirteen years her senior and while it was common for women to be married at a young age, people still found it disturbing because the groom didn’t wait for her to grow up. As soon as she was 12, he married her and the next year she was pregnant.Edmund and his brother Jasper had supported the Duke of York on various occasions but when the conflict escalated to war, the Tudor brothers sided with their kin. Edmund was captured during battle in late 1456 and died in attenpts to escape, possibly of sickness. Margaret , thirteen at a time, was already a young widow and expectant mother. She feared for her safety and the safety of her unborn child so she started a dangerous sojourn to Wales, to Pembroke castle where her brother in law resided. There, she gave birth to her only child, a boy she named Henry.Henry did not have a lonely childhood like some Ricardians and fiction writerss love to depict, nor was his mother a crazy fanatic. She was the same as the rest of the women. Religion was not separate, it was part of women’s lives, especially the adoration of female saints and the virgin Mary from whom women kept relics and images to pray to so they could be safely delivered or to protect their young. Of this latter cult, Henry became a firm follower, worshipping the image of the blessed mother with the same fervor as his mother. Likely, the little boy had childhood companions like David Owen, the illegitimate son of his grandfather by an unknown mistress. In spite of her second marriage, Margaret was allowed to visit her little boy and spend hours teaching him, but then her fortunes changed when Edward Earl of March forced the Lancastrians to flee and was declared king by popular acclaim in March 4 1461. Margaret and her new husband now had to curry favor with the new regime and to prove their loyalty, they had to let her son go. Edward saw Henry Tudor as a potential threat and to neutralize this threat he gave his custody to a loyal Yorkist, William Herbert and his wife Anne. They raised Henry as if he was one of their own, and he had the company of the new Earl’s other wards. But Henry knew that a prison made of gold was still a prison. One mistake from his mother, his guadians or worse, his runaway uncle and he would be dealt with.After the Lancastrian Readeption which only lasted a year, Jasper Tudor was forced to flee yet again. This time he took his nephew with him. The deaths of every Lancaster made Henry a potential threat. Every male Beaufort was also gone. Margaret had to let him go once more, this time she would not see him for another fourteen years.Bad weather brought them to the court of Francis II, Duke of Brittany. There he continued his education, by the time of Richard III’s accession, he enjoyed the company of many English exiles, among them the formidable and staunch Lancastrian loyalist -Earl of Oxford. It was in Brittanny, that December of 1483 after it was clear that the princes were gone for good, that he made a promise to marry Elizabeth of York and become King of England, thus uniting both bloodlines, the Houses of York and Lancaster into one.The next year and a half he spent his time planning, borrowing money and now in the court of France, currying favor with the French king. He had tried to invade England but failed. What made Henry think, the French king and others told him, he could succeed? But they didn’t know Henry. He was by now an educated, cosmopolitan young man who was also confident that god was on his side. On July 29 1485, Richard III gave the seal to Barrow, one of his officials to carry out his orders in the counties nearby and prepare for war.To be fair, Richard III was the most experienced soldier here. He had known the horrors of war since he was very little and his life parallels Henry’s but unlike the latter he had been participant in many military campaigns and had the entire North at his disposal. Henry had mercenaries, disatisfied English exiles, Edwardian Yorkists and most of Wales with him, but that was not enough to beat Richard’s armies. On August 7, Henry’s ships docked on Milford Haven. According to Fabyan when he disembarked he knelt and thanked god, reciting the Psalm 43: ‘Judica me deus & discern causam mean’. -Judge me, Oh god, and distinguish my cause. The following days he spent recruiting, some of Richard’s most staunch supporters defected to Henry, others refused to fight and just stood by as the two armies clashed on August 22. Others like his stepfather, chose to intervene in his favor only when the tide turned against him. After William Brandon, his standard bearer was struck down, Stanley and his brother with his armies charged down, and with their combined forced Richard’s was cut down. Richard, according to various sources screamed 'traitors’ and refused to go, instead seeking to confront Henry, but he never got to. The enemy got to him and he was forced down from his horse and minutes later, killed. It was a glorious day for Henry Tudor, now Henry VII. He had won against all odds, but the war was from over. Henry would face many pretenders and plots against him, his mother knew and she cried tears of fear, likely anticipating all her son would have to endure. He died in 1509 after twenty four years of reign.

In relation to Paul Atreides from DUNE MESSIAH onwards …

While DUNE, the first published novel of Frank Herbert set in the Dune universe is the book every reader should start with; DUNE MESSIAH is the most crucial one of ALL Dune novels because rather than reading like a science fiction novel or another inclusion into this space opera, it reads like a narrative tale that is chronicling events that already happened. For a history buff, this novel is the deciding book in the series that sets the tone for the rest of the saga. Additionally, aside from being a deconstruction of the hero mythos, it is also a critique of history. From the onset, the book starts with one of many historians being killed simply because he wanted to tell the truth. But obviously, Muad’Dib, the grand emperor Paul Atreides with his ongoing Jihad spread across the Known Universe can’t have that. So … what does he do? He starts rewriting the past, allowing only a few historians (who in reality are propagandists and religious zealots) to tell his version of history. Irulan is (thankfully) exempt from this. Despite being made fun of by the ‘I do not need to read books because thanks to the spice melange and the superior breeding program of the Bene-Gesserit I am a product of, I can access all the knowledge stored in my super evolved brain to keep feeding my ego’ crowd, she stays a true historian until the very end. She doesn’t agree with Paul Atreides or his other crazy fam, but slowly comes to realize that what they are doing (while terrible) needs to be done to free humanity of pre-destination and oblivion. And due to being understimated by the pretentious Lady Jessica, her husband’s concubine and true love, the Fremen Chani, and of course, Paul and his whole band of Jihadists, she gets to write down history as it truly transpires. But she does it in a way that makes him look less of a tyrant and more of a reluctant hero.

This historical treatment is the same kind of treatment that was given to the Tudor Dynasty starting from its very first monarch, HENRY VII.

I long for the day that Henry VII is correctly portrayed on screen because the way that the Tudors have gone down in history is how the Atreides clan did in the Dune universe. For every history buff that has enjoyed Dune, I urge that likewise, Dune readers do a deep dive into Tudor history to further appreciate both fandoms and see how the two can be studied together and dissected. Currently, revisionist historians who want to restore Richard III’s reputation have not ended up doing that. Instead, they have swung the pendulum the other way. As DUNE MESSIAH teaches us (through Irulan’s writings and Alia’s observations), the best way to understand saviors and deified leaders is not by extolling or vilifying them. Rather, see them as individuals trapped within their time period who feel as though they are ahead of it, and have to do what they must because otherwise darkness will reign.

Paul and Henry Tudor started off as exiles. Their foes never expected them to beat the odds but they did. But part of the reason why they did is because of the element of prophecy. And I am not just talking about the whole Henry Tudor claimed to be the long lost descendant of Arthur Pendragon and what not. Edward IV and Richard III did that too (though it worked less for Richard). I am talking about the issue with the whole Welsh prophecies that supposedly predicted the rise of Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond. Before he was born, a prophecy was sung that from his father’s line, the savior that the Welsh were hoping for would come. This prophecy in itself was a call back to a much older one which said that eventually one of the Welsh royal houses would rise to claim the English throne and unite all of the Isles. Well … Henry didn’t unite all of the British Isles but he did start the process when he married his eldest daughter Margaret to the King of Scots, James IV. Their descendants, from James VI of Scotland and I of England and Ireland, ruled all the British Isles.

In an interview, Frank Herbert said that he chose to take the direction of Paul Atreides and (especially) his son, Leto II’s stories in the way he did to caution about the danger of charismatic leaders who reach messiah or (in the case of Leto II) divine status. It’s not so much the power they possess or how evolved thy are that makes the Atreides so revered, it is their genius at how they present themselves and understand that the power of propaganda (be it religious, political or both) is the stronger force in the universe and what shapes human events. In studying the Tudors and Dune we learn that history is a collection of accepted events that are part factual, part propaganda, and part a reflection of the time period when they were written.

#Tudors #History #Relation to Dune #Dune Messiah #Science Fiction #propaganda is thy name of history #dailytudors

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minervacasterly · 4 years

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The Unlikely Rise of Henry VII

Henry's victory to success is simply amazing due to how far he was in the line of succession -if he was at all!

Of all the Tudors, and don't get me wrong I love them all! He had the most adventurous life! His life is the stuff of movies and you'll see why. Henry was born to Edmund Tudor, Earl of Richmond and Margaret Beaufort, heiress of Lancaster in Philipa Gregory's words. But she was far removed from the line of succession! The Beauforts derived their name from a castle John of Gaunt had in his possession in English occupied French territory. John of Gaunt married three times, the last to his mistress Katherine Swybford. When they married their children were already grown up but by no means less ambitious. In an effort to ingratiate himself with the shifty king Richard II, John betrayed many of his comrades and persecuted anyone who stood against the king, his nephew. In return for his good services, Richard II legitimized all the Beauforts but that's it. No say if they were inthe succession or not. Later after John died, his firstborn, Henry Bolingbroke ascended to the throne after he deposed Richard. He didn't overturn Richard's legislation but added a new restriction: The Beauforts were legitimate in the eyes of the law of men but due to their revious bastard status they were excluded from the line of succession. So bye-bye ambitions. By the time Henry IV's grandson had issue, this changed altogether. Their descendants were still seen as progeny of a bastard branch (albeit legitimized) of the House of Lancaster but their status had changed overnight as support build around the Duke of York and his Neville relations (who also descended from the Beaufort line, but through the female line). Henry VI betrothed his young relation, Margaret Beaufort to his half brother Edmund Tudor. He was thirteen years her senior and while it was common for women to be married at a young age, people still found it disturbing because the groom didn't wait for her to grow up. As soon as she was 12, he married her and the next year she was pregnant.

Edmund and his brother Jasper had supported the Duke of York on various occasions but when the conflict escalated to war, the Tudor brothers sided with their kin. Edmund was captured during battle in late 1456 and died in attenpts to escape, possibly of sickness. Margaret , thirteen at a time, was already a young widow and expectant mother. She feared for her safety and the safety of her unborn child so she started a dangerous sojourn to Wales, to Pembroke castle where her brother in law resided. There, she gave birth to her only child, a boy she named Henry.

Henry did not have a lonely childhood like some Ricardians and fiction writerss love to depict, nor was his mother a crazy fanatic. She was the same as the rest of the women. Religion was not separate, it was part of women's lives, especially the adoration of female saints and the virgin Mary from whom women kept relics and images to pray to so they could be safely delivered or to protect their young. Of this latter cult, Henry became a firm follower, worshipping the image of the blessed mother with the same fervor as his mother.

Likely, the little boy had childhood companions like David Owen, the illegitimate son of his grandfather by an unknown mistress. In spite of her second marriage, Margaret was allowed to visit her little boy and spend hours teaching him, but then her fortunes changed when Edward Earl of March forced the Lancastrians to flee and was declared king by popular acclaim in March 4 1461. Margaret and her new husband now had to curry favor with the new regime and to prove their loyalty, they had to let her son go. Edward saw Henry Tudor as a potential threat and to neutralize this threat he gave his custody to a loyal Yorkist, William Herbert and his wife Anne. They raised Henry as if he was one of their own, and he had the company of the new Earl's other wards. But Henry knew that a prison made of gold was still a prison. One mistake from his mother, his guadians or worse, his runaway uncle and he would be dealt with.

After the Lancastrian Readeption which only lasted a year, Jasper Tudor was forced to flee yet again. This time he took his nephew with him. The deaths of every Lancaster made Henry a potential threat. Every male Beaufort was also gone. Margaret had to let him go once more, this time she would not see him for another fourteen years.

Bad weather brought them to the court of Francis II, Duke of Brittany. There he continued his education, by the time of Richard III's accession, he enjoyed the company of many English exiles, among them the formidable and staunch Lancastrian loyalist -Earl of Oxford. It was in Brittanny, that December of 1483 after it was clear that the princes were gone for good, that he made a promise to marry Elizabeth of York and become King of England, thus uniting both bloodlines, the Houses of York and Lancaster into one.

The next year and a half he spent his time planning, borrowing money and now in the court of France, currying favor with the French king. He had tried to invade England but failed. What made Henry think, the French king and others told him, he could succeed? But they didn't know Henry. He was by now an educated, cosmopolitan young man who was also confident that god was on his side.

On July 29 1485, Richard III gave the seal to Barrow, one of his officials to carry out his orders in the counties nearby and prepare for war.

To be fair, Richard III was the most experienced soldier here. He had known the horrors of war since he was very little and his life parallels Henry's but unlike the latter he had been participant in many military campaigns and had the entire North at his disposal. Henry had mercenaries, disatisfied English exiles, Edwardian Yorkists and most of Wales with him, but that was not enough to beat Richard's armies.

On August 7, Henry's ships docked on Milford Haven. According to Fabyan when he disembarked he knelt and thanked god, reciting the Psalm 43: 'Judica me deus & discern causam mean'. -Judge me, Oh god, and distinguish my cause.

The following days he spent recruiting, some of Richard's most staunch supporters defected to Henry, others refused to fight and just stood by as the two armies clashed on August 22. Others like his stepfather, chose to intervene in his favor only when the tide turned against him. After William Brandon, his standard bearer was struck down, Stanley and his brother with his armies charged down, and with their combined forced Richard's was cut down. Richard, according to various sources screamed 'traitors' and refused to go, instead seeking to confront Henry, but he never got to. The enemy got to him and he was forced down from his horse and minutes later, killed. It was a glorious day for Henry Tudor, now Henry VII. He had won against all odds, but the war was from over. Henry would face many pretenders and plots against him, his mother knew and she cried tears of fear, likely anticipating all her son would have to endure. He died in 1509 after twenty four years of reign.

#tudor history #henry vii #wars of the roses #york #lancaster #early english renaissance

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malvoliowithin · 6 years

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Shakespearean Dads Ranked From Best to Worst

Banquo: Let himself get stabbed so that his son could escape when will your fave ever.

Lord Talbot: I’m not crying you’re crying.

Prospero: Say what you will about Prospero but he raised his daughter alone on a magic island and that’s pretty awesome honestly.

Aaron: Terrible evil-minded sociopath? Yes. Loving father? Also yes!

Richard of York: Okay maybe teaching your second-youngest son to straight-up murder people isn’t a good plan but he’s still a supportive and loving parent, give him a break.

King Hamlet: Presumably a good enough father to make his son mourn his loss so hard that he went insane. Also possibly played a hand in making his son go insane? Hard to say.

Falstaff: Okay he’s not a dad I admit it but like... still raised Hal more than Henry IV did. Unfortunately raised him to do crime and skirt the law. But even so.

Hotspur: Shouldn’t be on the list cause he wasn’t a father in the plays but I’m putting him on here because shut up

Belarius: Other than the whole kidnapping thing, a pretty swell dad.

Edmund of York: Probably letting the guy your son loves die in prison so as not to make waves isn’t great but he still knew where his loyalties lay and was devoted to his son if nothing else.

Duke Solinus: Lost his kids in a shipwreck leave him alone he’s doing his best

Duke Senior: Abandons his daughter when he’s banished, but also allows her to stay in her home rather than taking her into the woods with him so?

Simonides: Pretty chill. Likes games.

Gloucester: Talks about his bastard son like he’s not even there but actually isn’t a bad father all things considered.

Henry IV: Tried. Tried so hard. (Failed.)

Pericles: Managed to completely lose his entire family although I guess it technically wasn’t his fault. Still.

Polixines: Well meaning but kind of dumb.

Henry V: Made everything really nice for his son but then died of dysentery. (No, seriously.)

Warwick: His intentions for his daughters - honest, or self-serving? Well...

Shylock: Cuts his daughter out of his will which isn’t good, but he does recant later (although he has to). Granted also she ran off and got married without his permission.

Leonato: I barely remember this guy tbh

Alonzo: Took his son on a perilous sea voyage, didn’t do anything else. Got punked and nearly murdered. Didn’t do much in the way of fathering but heck.

George of Clarence: Kinda just... died? While being drunk?

Baptista Minola: Uhh kinda plays weird games with his daughters’ suitings but... could be worse I guess?

Lord Montague: Perpetuates a feud that kills everyone.

Henry VI: Sold his son’s birthright for a peace treaty and then fucked off, got himself imprisoned, and died. Awesome.

Edward IV: *dying* “I’ll just leave my young sons in the care of my brother nothing could possibly go wrong with this plan at all :)”

Polonius: Should really stop being a dick to his daughter thanks

Priam: Can’t listen to his daughter for like three seconds so everyone dies, what a winner. (Yeah I know, it was part of her curse but Even So.)

Cymbeline: Useless and also lets his evil wife poison his daughter and does jack shit so yeah.

Macduff: Runs away to do Important Business Elsewhere and meanwhile his entire family gets murdered because he neglected to post a guard.

Duke Frederick: Probably a decent father overall but banishes his daughter’s best friend to go live in the woods so that’s not exactly Cool.

Lear: Banishes his ACTUAL daughter because she doesn’t love him enough jfc

Brabantio: Dies from being too racist. That’s full-stop the reason given. His daughter marries a black man and he has a heart attack because he’s so racist he can’t handle it. Honestly.

Egeus: a jerk who tries to have his daughter killed because she won’t marry the guy who he wants her to marry ffs. Not nice.

Lord Capulet: Perpetuates a feud that kills everyone AND is emotionally abusive!

Northumberland: Pretends to be sick when his son is in the middle of a war and then realizes He Fucked Up after his son is already dead gj you stupid idiot.

Antiochus: Actively having an incestuous relationship with his daughter what even.

Leontes: an actual shitty asshole who leaves his infant daughter in the woods TO DIE and somehow kills his son (indirectly but still). Bad and terrible.

Agamemnon: Kills his daughter because of bad weather or something and also because he somehow managed to piss off an entire goddess, regardless, KILLS HIS ENTIRE DAUGHTER

Titus Andronicus: kills like four of his children for reasons ranging from ‘they made me angry’ to ‘they got raped and now I am ashamed of them.’ Just overall terrible and belongs in the trash.

#I'm undoubtedly forgetting some but yeah #that's the List #misc

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minervacasterly · 5 years

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Henry VII: The Red Dragon’s Unlikely Triumph

Henry's victory to success is simply amazing due to how far down he was in the line of succession -if he was at all! Of all the Tudors, and don't get me wrong I love them all! He had the most adventurous life! His life is the stuff of movies and you'll see why. Henry was born to Edmund Tudor, Earl of Richmond and Margaret Beaufort, heiress of Lancaster in Philippa Gregory's words. But she was far removed from the line of succession! The Beauforts derived their name from a castle John of Gaunt had in his possession in English occupied French territory. John of Gaunt married three times, the last to his mistress Katherine Swybford. When they married their children were already grown up but by no means less ambitious. In an effort to ingratiate himself with the shifty king Richard II, John betrayed many of his comrades and persecuted anyone who stood against the king, his nephew. In return for his good services, Richard II legitimized all the Beauforts but that's it. No say if they were inthe succession or not. Later after John died, his firstborn, Henry Bolingbroke ascended to the throne after he deposed Richard. He didn't overturn Richard's legislation but added a new restriction: The Beauforts were legitimate in the eyes of the law of men but due to their revious bastard status they were excluded from the line of succession. So bye-bye ambitions. By the time Henry IV's grandson had issue, this changed altogether. Their descendants were still seen as progeny of a bastard branch (albeit legitimized) of the House of Lancaster but their status had changed overnight as support build around the Duke of York and his Neville relations (who also descended from the Beaufort line, but through the female line). Henry VI betrothed his young relation, Margaret Beaufort to his half brother Edmund Tudor. He was thirteen years her senior and while it was common for women to be married at a young age, people still found it disturbing because the groom didn't wait for her to grow up. As soon as she was 12, he married her and the next year she was pregnant. Edmund and his brother Jasper had supported the Duke of York on various occasions but when the conflict escalated to war, the Tudor brothers sided with their kin. Edmund was captured during battle in late 1456 and died in attenpts to escape, possibly of sickness. Margaret , thirteen at a time, was already a young widow and expectant mother. She feared for her safety and the safety of her unborn child so she started a dangerous sojourn to Wales, to Pembroke castle where her brother in law resided. There, she gave birth to her only child, a boy she named Henry. Henry did not have a lonely childhood like some Ricardians and fiction writerss love to depict, nor was his mother a crazy fanatic. She was the same as the rest of the women. Religion was not separate, it was part of women's lives, especially the adoration of female saints and the virgin Mary from whom women kept relics and images to pray to so they could be safely delivered or to protect their young. Of this latter cult, Henry became a firm follower, worshipping the image of the blessed mother with the same fervor as his mother. Likely, the little boy had childhood companions like David Owen, the illegitimate son of his grandfather by an unknown mistress. In spite of her second marriage, Margaret was allowed to visit her little boy and spend hours teaching him, but then her fortunes changed when Edward Earl of March forced the Lancastrians to flee and was declared king by popular acclaim in March 4 1461. Margaret and her new husband now had to curry favor with the new regime and to prove their loyalty, they had to let her son go. Edward saw Henry Tudor as a potential threat and to neutralize this threat he gave his custody to a loyal Yorkist, William Herbert and his wife Anne. They raised Henry as if he was one of their own, and he had the company of the new Earl's other wards. But Henry knew that a prison made of gold was still a prison. One mistake from his mother, his guadians or worse, his runaway uncle and he would be dealt with. After the Lancastrian Readeption which only lasted a year, Jasper Tudor was forced to flee yet again. This time he took his nephew with him. The deaths of every Lancaster made Henry a potential threat. Every male Beaufort was also gone. Margaret had to let him go once more, this time she would not see him for another fourteen years. Bad weather brought them to the court of Francis II, Duke of Brittany. There he continued his education, by the time of Richard III's accession, he enjoyed the company of many English exiles, among them the formidable and staunch Lancastrian loyalist -Earl of Oxford. It was in Brittanny, that December of 1483 after it was clear that the princes were gone for good, that he made a promise to marry Elizabeth of York and become King of England, thus uniting both bloodlines, the Houses of York and Lancaster into one. The next year and a half he spent his time planning, borrowing money and now in the court of France, currying favor with the French king. He had tried to invade England but failed. What made Henry think, the French king and others told him, he could succeed? But they didn't know Henry. He was by now an educated, cosmopolitan young man who was also confident that god was on his side. On July 29 1485, Richard III gave the seal to Barrow, one of his officials to carry out his orders in the counties nearby and prepare for war. To be fair, Richard III was the most experienced soldier here. He had known the horrors of war since he was very little and his life parallels Henry's but unlike the latter he had been participant in many military campaigns and had the entire North at his disposal. Henry had mercenaries, disatisfied English exiles, Edwardian Yorkists and most of Wales with him, but that was not enough to beat Richard's armies. On August 7, Henry's ships docked on Milford Haven. According to Fabyan when he disembarked he knelt and thanked god, reciting the Psalm 43: 'Judica me deus & discern causam mean'. -Judge me, Oh god, and distinguish my cause. The following days he spent recruiting, some of Richard's most staunch supporters defected to Henry, others refused to fight and just stood by as the two armies clashed on August 22. Others like his stepfather, chose to intervene in his favor only when the tide turned against him. After William Brandon, his standard bearer was struck down, Stanley and his brother with his armies charged down, and with their combined forced Richard's was cut down. Richard, according to various sources screamed 'traitors' and refused to go, instead seeking to confront Henry, but he never got to. The enemy got to him and he was forced down from his horse and minutes later, killed. It was a glorious day for Henry Tudor, now Henry VII. He had won against all odds, but the war was from over. Henry would face many pretenders and plots against him, his mother knew and she cried tears of fear, likely anticipating all her son would have to endure. He died in 1509 after twenty four years of reign.

#Henry VII #Tudor Dynasty #Tudors #History #wars of the roses #late medieval period #early renaissance #england #Henry Tudor

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minervacasterly · 7 years

Photo

~Henry VII: The Red Dragon’s Unlikely Triumph~

Henry's victory to success is simply amazing due to how far he was in the line of succession -if he was at all! Of all the Tudors, and don't get me wrong I love them all! He had the most adventurous life! His life is the stuff of movies and you'll see why. Henry was born to Edmund Tudor, Earl of Richmond and Margaret Beaufort, heiress of Lancaster in Philippa Gregory's words. But she was far removed from the line of succession! The Beauforts derived their name from a castle John of Gaunt had in his possession in English occupied French territory. John of Gaunt married three times, the last to his mistress Katherine Swybford. When they married their children were already grown up but by no means less ambitious. In an effort to ingratiate himself with the shifty king Richard II, John betrayed many of his comrades and persecuted anyone who stood against the king, his nephew. In return for his good services, Richard II legitimized all the Beauforts but that's it. No say if they were inthe succession or not. Later after John died, his firstborn, Henry Bolingbroke ascended to the throne after he deposed Richard. He didn't overturn Richard's legislation but added a new restriction: The Beauforts were legitimate in the eyes of the law of men but due to their revious bastard status they were excluded from the line of succession. So bye-bye ambitions. By the time Henry IV's grandson had issue, this changed altogether. Their descendants were still seen as progeny of a bastard branch (albeit legitimized) of the House of Lancaster but their status had changed overnight as support build around the Duke of York and his Neville relations (who also descended from the Beaufort line, but through the female line). Henry VI betrothed his young relation, Margaret Beaufort to his half brother Edmund Tudor. He was thirteen years her senior and while it was common for women to be married at a young age, people still found it disturbing because the groom didn't wait for her to grow up. As soon as she was 12, he married her and the next year she was pregnant. Edmund and his brother Jasper had supported the Duke of York on various occasions but when the conflict escalated to war, the Tudor brothers sided with their kin. Edmund was captured during battle in late 1456 and died in attenpts to escape, possibly of sickness. Margaret , thirteen at a time, was already a young widow and expectant mother. She feared for her safety and the safety of her unborn child so she started a dangerous sojourn to Wales, to Pembroke castle where her brother in law resided. There, she gave birth to her only child, a boy she named Henry. Henry did not have a lonely childhood like some Ricardians and fiction writerss love to depict, nor was his mother a crazy fanatic. She was the same as the rest of the women. Religion was not separate, it was part of women's lives, especially the adoration of female saints and the virgin Mary from whom women kept relics and images to pray to so they could be safely delivered or to protect their young. Of this latter cult, Henry became a firm follower, worshipping the image of the blessed mother with the same fervor as his mother. Likely, the little boy had childhood companions like David Owen, the illegitimate son of his grandfather by an unknown mistress. In spite of her second marriage, Margaret was allowed to visit her little boy and spend hours teaching him, but then her fortunes changed when Edward Earl of March forced the Lancastrians to flee and was declared king by popular acclaim in March 4 1461. Margaret and her new husband now had to curry favor with the new regime and to prove their loyalty, they had to let her son go. Edward saw Henry Tudor as a potential threat and to neutralize this threat he gave his custody to a loyal Yorkist, William Herbert and his wife Anne. They raised Henry as if he was one of their own, and he had the company of the new Earl's other wards. But Henry knew that a prison made of gold was still a prison. One mistake from his mother, his guadians or worse, his runaway uncle and he would be dealt with. After the Lancastrian Readeption which only lasted a year, Jasper Tudor was forced to flee yet again. This time he took his nephew with him. The deaths of every Lancaster made Henry a potential threat. Every male Beaufort was also gone. Margaret had to let him go once more, this time she would not see him for another fourteen years. Bad weather brought them to the court of Francis II, Duke of Brittany. There he continued his education, by the time of Richard III's accession, he enjoyed the company of many English exiles, among them the formidable and staunch Lancastrian loyalist -Earl of Oxford. It was in Brittanny, that December of 1483 after it was clear that the princes were gone for good, that he made a promise to marry Elizabeth of York and become King of England, thus uniting both bloodlines, the Houses of York and Lancaster into one. The next year and a half he spent his time planning, borrowing money and now in the court of France, currying favor with the French king. He had tried to invade England but failed. What made Henry think, the French king and others told him, he could succeed? But they didn't know Henry. He was by now an educated, cosmopolitan young man who was also confident that god was on his side. On July 29 1485, Richard III gave the seal to Barrow, one of his officials to carry out his orders in the counties nearby and prepare for war. To be fair, Richard III was the most experienced soldier here. He had known the horrors of war since he was very little and his life parallels Henry's but unlike the latter he had been participant in many military campaigns and had the entire North at his disposal. Henry had mercenaries, disatisfied English exiles, Edwardian Yorkists and most of Wales with him, but that was not enough to beat Richard's armies. On August 7, Henry's ships docked on Milford Haven. According to Fabyan when he disembarked he knelt and thanked god, reciting the Psalm 43: 'Judica me deus & discern causam mean'. -Judge me, Oh god, and distinguish my cause. The following days he spent recruiting, some of Richard's most staunch supporters defected to Henry, others refused to fight and just stood by as the two armies clashed on August 22. Others like his stepfather, chose to intervene in his favor only when the tide turned against him. After William Brandon, his standard bearer was struck down, Stanley and his brother with his armies charged down, and with their combined forced Richard's was cut down. Richard, according to various sources screamed 'traitors' and refused to go, instead seeking to confront Henry, but he never got to. The enemy got to him and he was forced down from his horse and minutes later, killed. It was a glorious day for Henry Tudor, now Henry VII. He had won against all odds, but the war was from over. Henry would face many pretenders and plots against him, his mother knew and she cried tears of fear, likely anticipating all her son would have to endure. He died in 1509 after twenty four years of reign.

#Tudor #History #Henry Tudor Earl of Richmond to King of one of England's greatest dynasties #History maker #King of England Lord of Ireland #wars of the roses

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