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waitmyturtles · 6 months

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Pain, Trust, and Separation in Some Asian Dramas (The Second Post In a Series of Utterly Un-scholastic, Highly Personal Big Meta)......

AKA, Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: The Bad Buddy Rewatch Edition, Part 2 -- How Themes of Pain, Trust, and Separation Create Structure and Narrative in Bad Buddy and Other Asian BLs

[The following is a preamble I use for my Old GMMTV Challenge posts, here we go! What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far.Today, I offer the second of four posts on Bad Buddy, and the second in a Big Meta series on pain in some Asian dramas, including QLs and/or het romances. I'll look today at how ideas of pain in love, trust in love, and separation of partners/family members creates narrative drive in Bad Buddy and other Asian BLs. THIS IS A LONG POST, caveat emptor.]

Links to the BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series are here: part 1, part 2, part 3a, part 3b, and part 4

Well, after a lot of titles and a chewy preamble (thank you for getting through that, y'all!), I'm here to say that I'm combining my two ongoing meta series into one big ol' post here that I've been dying to write for months. In the course of my watching the shows on the Thailand-based Old GMMTV Challenge watchlist, as well as watching shows from my BL gateway of Japan, I've noticed that the themes of pain and trust in love, along with voluntary or involuntary separation, have been used to create dramatic and narrative structure within Asian dramatic stories to many emotional effects.

I'm celebrating the incredible Thai BL drama that is Bad Buddy in my OGMMTVC series at the moment, and within my Big Meta series on pain in Asian dramas, I examine how themes of pain so very often harken back to artistic, and even traditional, viewpoints of how pain, suffering, and melancholy are natural cultural assumptions within many collectivist Asian societies. In my first Big Meta on pain and suffering in Asian dramas, I wrote that "accepting pain and suffering is a part of the life we decide to live, from an Asian cultural perspective." Suffering is a naturally assumed part of life, a very distinct and identified part of a Buddhist's lived life, and even outside of Buddhism, accepting and living with difficulties of all kinds -- wealth disparities, the struggle for a good education and/or a successful career, the struggle to conform to collectivist familial and/or social expectations, etc. -- are extremely common themes that are unwound on in Asian lives on a minute-to-minute basis. The idea that an Asian must live with pain is often a root of intergenerational trauma, passed along from generation to generation of Asian children-to-adults. The social mores by which Asians are raised and live, to assume what Westerners might call a lack of unconditional parental love and affection, are certainly in part rooted in an assumption that living with pain and without the, say, luxury of turning over one's emotions at any given moment, are an automatic given.

As I've plodded through the OGMMTVC watchlist, I noticed very often that separation of people -- whether those people are lovers, children/parents, or simply just adults within a group -- is often a major narrative turning point in the course of a dramatized relationship. Of course it would be; it's a common trope within the romance genre, for instance.

But I find the separation of people otherwise connected to each other -- and the assumed pain of that separation, and the trust that people may have to return to each other -- particularly fascinating within the realm of Asian dramas, for reasons relating to the assumption of pain and suffering in one's life within Asian cultures that I mentioned above. In other words, the pain of separation, and the trust that one might have that one person will come back to another person -- are givens within the scope of Asian life.

In the following dramas, I note that separation is either a central storytelling point, or is a central focus of side characters:

1) The Thai filmmaker, Aof Noppharnach, has explored separation of people/lovers in many of his shows, including Still 2gether, A Tale of Thousand Stars (in multiple forms), and in Bad Buddy (also in multiple forms, romantic and/or familial).

2) Also from Thailand, Until We Meet Again and I Promised You The Moon are two non-GMMTV dramas in which separation of lovers plays an important concluding narrative role.

3) From Japan, the movie version of Cherry Magic: 30 Years of Virginity Can Make You a Wizard?! captures an important central narrative of separation that leads the franchise's two protagonists, Adachi and Kurosawa, to explore depth in honesty and intimacy that they may not have otherwise achieved in their everyday lives.

The painful separation that occurs in Aof Noppharnach's shows is most often related to the outside forces of life as it needs to be lived -- very often economically -- within or external to Thailand. In Bad Buddy, Pran leaves for Singapore for two years. I'm going to unwind much more on Pran leaving for Singapore in the final installment of my Bad Buddy OGMMTVC meta series, particularly by way of how he can do it, emotionally. But I want to offer a quick note about Pran's departure that the show gives a hint to (despite the pain that we feel in our hearts for Pat's loneliness from Pran, as depicted so beautifully by Ohm Pawat and his silent and longing existence as Pat in the first half of the Bad Buddy series finale). The BBS finale has Pran stating that he'll only be away for two years, and that the pay and the opportunity for an excellent architecture job were better in Singapore. In conversation with the fabulous Thai blogger, @recentadultburnout, RAB mentioned that this is a common occurrence among young Thais -- to move overseas for better job opportunities.

In spite of my heart breaking a bit for Pran being away from Pat when I first learned about his leaving for Singapore -- when RAB put Pran's departure in that context, I had to slap my cheek a bit. Because! I'm a child of Asian immigrants. Separation from family for better economic opportunities is a HUGE part of our paradigm of life between continents. As my Asia-based uncle, my mother's brother, once put it, in regards to my mother: "one of the children in our families always had to move away." For my mother's family, it was my mom who shipped off. Besides individuals seeking better economic opportunities for themselves, the economies of many Asian countries are dependent on the reception of remittances from overseas family members sending money back to their home countries, as my mom did for years; the Philippines is particularly notable for having a nearly 9% contribution from overseas remittances to its gross domestic product. In other words? The separation of loved ones is literally built into the financial frameworks of many Asian nations.

The separation of children or partners to overseas locales for the sake of better salaries and/or opportunities is simply a more assumed part of the cultural paradigm, I'd argue, in Asia than in the West. Family separations for jobs are extremely common in Asia; in the West, I'm not sure they are as assumed, especially for extensive separations, as the value placed on keeping a family unit together for cultural or spiritual reasons seems to be more a part of the Western fabric of life (despite our high rate of divorce).

We see an even more permanent economic separation happen in Still 2gether between two side characters -- Type, played by Toptap Jirakit, who is Tine's (Win Metawin) brother, and Man (Mike Chinnarat), who is Sarawat's (Bright Vachiwarit) friend. Man chased after Type during the first 2gether season; in Still 2gether, they're navigating their committed relationship, as Type contemplates, then accepts, a permanent job offer in Phuket, hours away from their home base in Bangkok.

As @lurkingshan put it, I might be the only person on the planet contemplating Type's and Man's relationship (lmao, it do be true), but I found Type's last conversation with Man, on the beach, to be particularly direct and moving for someone who has no immediate plans to move back to the side of the person he's dating.

I think about this scene against the structure of the short series that is Still 2gether, which is centered around the protagonists of Sarawat and Tine being temporarily separated as they prepare to compete in a university-wide tournament. Sarawat has the most lovely contemplation on love during this separation, and even Aof Noppharnach himself admits that the glance that Sarawat and Tine give to each other as they pass each other in the lead-up to the ultimate tournament is his favorite scene he's ever filmed (!!!) (and that scene is sooooo reminiscent of Pran's and Pat's pinky-hold after their public "break-up").

In other words: Still 2gether is ALL about separation, and contemplating the strength of love relationships in the face of those separations. While Sarawat and Tine will get back together, after that tournament -- Type and Man are separated for the foreseeable future. There is no end indicated to the patience that Type wants from Man. The conversation is just, THERE, and hanging -- there's an acknowledgment that long-distance relationships are tough, but Type isn't offering to quit his job and move back to Bangkok. Instead, Type and Man are left to accept the reality that there is no end in sight to their separation.

And I think this was incredibly bold of Aof Noppharnach to include in a GMMTV BL that otherwise ended happily for Tine and Sarawat, the main protagonists. What I admire about Aof's works are these sly inclusions of open-ended, sometimes melancholy non-resolutions, either for his main or his support characters, that leave us as viewers often slightly unsatisfied or unfulfilled. He did this in particular with the character of Aof in Gay OK Bangkok, a web series that he screenwrote in 2016; and many might say that Pran being away in Singapore is also not the most satisfying of endings for our beloved PatPran in Bad Buddy. To me, these decisions to do this artistically are just incredibly reminiscent, again, of the kind of pain that we as Asians have been culturally attuned to accept, for the sake of economics, and/or for the sake of the betterment of our loved ones.

Besides economic separations in Aof Noppharnach's works, we also have separations related to family demands and desires. In A Tale of Thousand Stars and Our Skyy 2 x A Tale of Thousand Stars, we see Tian leaving Phupha's side for two years to study for a graduate degree at Tian's mom's insistence; and we see Phupha refusing to join Tian, after Tian has graduated and moved back to Pha Pun Dao, on trips Tian takes back to Bangkok to celebrate his birthday with his parents.

When I rewatched ATOTS earlier this year, I noted that both Phupha and Tian were remarkably bad communicators throughout the original series -- and I posited that, in large part, their terrible communication was borne out by way of the both of them being raised in traditionally masculine Asian households that seemed to not allow for leeway regarding emotional revelations. BOTH Phupha and Tian were expected and intended to follow in the footsteps and demands of their family members. To the end of the ATOTS storyline in Our Skyy 2, Phupha brings up his parents -- and he hears what he has been wanting to confirm from Tian's parents, in their desire to have Phupha take care of Tian for the rest of their lives.

Phupha in particular needed to have multiple gateways opened to him, vis à vis Tian's family, in order to properly and openly confirm his permanent love and commitment to Tian. If Phupha didn't have that? He was willing to be separated from Tian, either temporarily, or at length. Phupha needed a kind of culturally accepting door opened to him -- as a man raised in what we assume to be a rural and traditional environment that may very well have not allowed for a gay man to live openly and honestly. Phupha indeed follows in his father's footsteps, to the extent of never leaving Pha Pun Dao, and demanded that he have Tian's family's approval before making the final commitment to Tian to love Tian forever.

I find the cultural nuances of nuclear family separation, or separation encouraged by nuclear family, to be particularly heartbreaking in many of Aof Noppharnach's works. We know that Jim and Jam, brother and sister in Moonlight Chicken, ran away from their Isan hometown as youths to find their lives in Pattaya, where we meet them in the context of that show. But separation either from nuclear family, or more impactfully, done by nuclear family, is most evident in Bad Buddy.

Besides Pran voluntarily leaving for Singapore, we know that Pran has been involuntarily separated from Pat before -- when Pran was transferred to a boarding school in 10th grade by his mother, Dissaya. Before that transfer, Pran and Pat were technically "separated" by their parents in so far as they were not supposed to become friends -- all while competing heavily against each other in every category of life.

That boarding school transfer? That wasn't just separating Pran from Pat. What I found remarkable about that separation during my recent BBS rewatches is that Dissaya HERSELF chose to be physically separated from her own son, for the sake of her rivalry with Pat's father, Ming.

I'm thinking about this particularly from the words she used with Pran as they sat at breakfast together before Pran started his second year at university, when Dissaya said that Pran could date anyone, men or women, as long as he "didn't date [the next door kid]."

My interpretation of that perspective is that Dissaya did not want Pran to relieve the heartbreak that she herself experienced when she was close with Ming in her teenage years.

In other words: she chose to send her son away in the face of her ongoing, lifelong fear that Ming and his family would once again wreak havoc on her and her clan.

In the continuation of the intergenerational trauma wrought upon Pat and Pran by their parents -- as a mother myself, this seems to be particularly egregious. Dissaya would have rather had her son AWAY FROM HER, than to contemplate her son even being WITHIN physical proximity to Pat in the context of her hatred of Pat's father, Ming, and the fear that she had that the Jindapats would negatively influence the Siridechawats again.

(The wonderful @telomeke reminded me, in conversation on this topic, that the first question Dissaya asks Pran, after learning about the first faculty fight in episode 1 when Pran re-encounters Pat for the very first time, was, "Did he hurt you, Pran?" Dissaya cannot bear to allow the Jindapats to hurt her son, or her family, ever again.)

I wrote in my first Big Meta on pain and suffering that Asian parenting expectations and mores are far more conditional than they are in the West, as parenting mores in the West are centered around unquestioned and unconditional love from parents to children. So much of Bad Buddy meta out there focuses on the internal experiences of Pran and Pat. When I sat back to think about Dissaya making the decision for herself to be separated from her son for years -- and then to also contemplate pulling Pran FROM COLLEGE when she learns that Pat goes to Pran's university -- I mean. We know Dissaya and Ming both tried their best to embody their hatred of each other into their children. But Dissaya takes it a couple steps further, by attempting to literally control Pran's physical existence vis à vis Pat, which -- and I'm going to sound like a judgmental Westerner here, even as an Asian -- strikes me as out of line by way of just pure emotional projection onto one's children.

When Pran goes to Singapore, at the end of the series, it's out of his own volition. Again, I'll write more about this at the end of my BBS OGMMTVC meta series. But what he experienced by ways of many TYPES of separation from Pat throughout his life -- competitively, emotionally, and then physically -- are extensive. He was physically separated from Pat by Dissaya. He was theoretically "separated" from Pat emotionally, by being discouraged in having a friendship with Pat. He is physically separated from Pat *again* when he goes to Singapore. And I posit later in this piece that Pat and Pran had another theoretical "separation" when they are pretending to be broken up throughout the course of their relationship.

When I think about what teenage Pran must have felt to be *physically sent away* -- BY and FROM his own family, for their sake of his family's desires to avoid ANOTHER family -- it explains a hell of a lot more about Pran's tendency to dissociate, particularly during stressful times. (We see this when he's alone at the demolished bus stop, and cutely in Our Skyy 2, as Pat encourages a grumpy Pran to go to Pha Pun Dao.)

And where Pat balanced Pran out -- where Pat could offer the kind of companionship, and relaxed and equitable communication that Pran had never had with his family -- was where Pran could finally experience truly open and SAFE love from and with another person, another person who wouldn't *send him away* if Pran didn't play by their rules. Instead, Pat fought by Pran's side, and Pran was willing to fight, too, and they remained together, and safe in their love and trust.

Whew. Dissaya separating Pran from his own family, from herself -- to leave him alone at boarding school -- seriously punches me in the gut, especially as a mother myself. I'm thinking about a teenager, on the cusp of adulthood, alone to contemplate his unending love for Pat, and I'm like.... I wouldn't leave a kid alone like that for a moment. But for Dissaya, her husband, and their pride? It seemed to be a worthwhile decision in that moment. A decision that we know would blow up in their faces in episode 10 of Bad Buddy.

In Pran's first separation from Pat -- Pran did not have personal agency. He did have agency later on, as he moved to Singapore, which again, I'll contemplate in a further meta.

Two instances where I was impressed by protagonists leveraging their agency vis à vis temporary separations from their partners was in Until We Meet Again and in I Promised You The Moon.

UWMA's Pharm was first and foremost presented as a blushing maiden. HOWEVER: Pharm demonstrated quite a bit of sexual agency early in the series. He was forward in his crush on Dean. He contemplated openly being gay. And he wasn't afraid to push Dean away when Dean was moving too fast sexually.

At the end of the series, after Dean and Pharm have resolved their spiritual connection vis à vis the embodied spirits of Korn and Intouch meeting once more -- Pharm wants to know if the love between him and Dean is real, and independent of the influence of the spirits of Korn and Intouch. So: Pharm asks for a break.

Throughout UWMA, Dean is the obvious seme, and Pharm is the blushing uke. I squealed in DELIGHT when I first watched Pharm asking for the break. Yes, Pharm loved Dean -- and what I saw in Pharm's asking for a temporary separation was truly out of that love, to confirm between the both of them that their relationship was very much indeed a forever relationship. God, I get chills thinking about it: Pharm was safe enough in his sphere with Dean to ask for and to GET the agency-driven space that HE NEEDED to feel fully confident in the relationship. That was a risky move that paid off for the two guys in dividends in the end. Dean had no choice but to say yes there.

The fabulous Oh-aew in I Promised You The Moon goes even further than Pharm. He fucking breaks up with Teh! After Teh cheated on Oh-aew! YES, HOMEY, YES! No wibbling on Oh-aew's end. Oh-aew was devastated, yes. But he knew he had to have Teh out of his life in that moment, for the sake of Oh-aew's own happiness, growth, and development. He even rejects Teh's reach-out at the end of their college careers.

What stuck me as so golden about the ending of IPYTM was that that break-up wasn't actually presented as temporary. They were apart for OVER A YEAR (thank you kindly to @shortpplfedup for the temporal fact-check!). Oh-aew held his ground. He needed his time and space. He needed to grow! And he valued that, individually.

I'm celebrating these two instances of agency-driven separations because of the style of their intention vis à vis the protagonists asking for, needing, and leveraging these separations. With the economic and involuntary separations I talked about earlier -- it's like there was a higher need, whether it was for money, a better career opportunity, fear, or selfishness on the part of a family to create the separation.

With Pharm and Oh-aew: the separations they demanded were purely personal and for their own growth. We know now that Pharm and Oh-aew get their endings with their partners. Pharm has a purely happy ending with Dean in Between Us. Oh-aew's ending with Teh is open-ended -- we don't know what chaos Teh will wreak next -- but at least we know they're navigating that chaos together again.

The last drama I wanted to take a look at regarding pain, trust, and separation is the fabulous movie continuation of Cherry Magic: 30 Years of Virginity Will Make You a Wizard?! (I always love writing ?! whenever I talk about Cherry Magic, lol).

The central separation in the movie of the two protagonists, Adachi and Kurosawa, comes about when Adachi is transferred to Nagasaki for work. As @neuroticbookworm and @lurkingshan can attest to: a Western viewer of Japanese BLs will often find themselves screaming to a screen, "JUST TALK ALREADY!," and a uniquely common aspect of Japanese doramas is that so much of communication in Japanese culture is silent, unsaid, kept internal by collectivist social pressures to not make waves with another person -- which automatically creates ongoing questions of trust between partners. When Adachi (Akaso Eiji) shares with Kurosawa (Machida Keita) that Adachi will be moving, Kurosawa shares in words that he's happy for Adachi, but through very simple body language, communicates that he is feeling otherwise.

Later in the movie, Adachi gets into an accident in Nagasaki, and Kurosawa rushes to be by Adachi's side. Kurosawa is clearly traumatized. And Kurosawa finally reveals his feelings about the entire situation -- a rare display of direct emotional confession.

We think that Adachi moved to Nagasaki for this job opportunity -- separating himself from the incredibly devoted and head-over-heels-in-love-with-Adachi Kurosawa. Adachi knows well enough that Kurosawa is suffering in this separation. But later in the movie, after Adachi has moved back with Kurosawa, do we learn Adachi's true intentions. Adachi wants to make himself invaluable at work -- so that Adachi's and Kurosawa's shared company will not separate them if the company finds out about their relationship.

This particular conversation between Adachi and Kurosawa -- after their separation, after they've moved in together -- is a huge turning point in the movie for Adachi, who had usually been the reluctant uke in their relationship prior to this moment. In this conversation, Adachi expresses his fear that outside forces will eventually separate them, and he wants to do what he can to ensure the safety of their relationship.

To me, this is incredibly reminiscent of the compromises Pran and Pat make in Bad Buddy to keep their relationship secret -- another theoretical "separation" -- from their parents for the health, safety, and viability of their relationship.

As well, this conversation between Adachi and Kurosawa moves forward into Adachi's desire to come out to their families. He was inspired by the immediate aftermath of the accident, in which Kurosawa was the last person to find out that Adachi had gotten hurt -- only after Adachi's family and company were notified.

The nuances of this separation between Adachi and Kurosawa -- and what the separation LED TO, which was an eventual and permanent commitment between Adachi and Kurosawa -- are incredibly layered. Adachi made an economic separation from Kurosawa. But it was also rooted in his desire to acclimate his company to his company's dependence on Adachi, so that the company would choose Adachi's contribution to the company over the potentially taboo reality of his same-sex relationship with a colleague in Kurosawa. In other words: he wanted to leverage the separation and his work performance upon his return, to render the company no choice in choosing Adachi's economic performance over his personal and private choices.

(One insight into Japanese culture is that for decades, Japanese corporations have wanted their employees to be married, to complete a seamless connection between household and "office" families. The Japanese BL Kinou Nani Tabeta?/What Did You Eat Yesterday? makes reference to the fact that the main protagonist, Shiro, becomes an independent lawyer because, as a gay man, he may have been pressured to take a wife in another, more group-oriented corporate setting.)

AND, following this, Adachi wanted to come out to his and Kurosawa's families, to also acclimate them to their relationship, so that their families would also not threaten the sanctity and safety of their relationship. And his gamble worked -- and their families accepted them, and they were able to make a permanent commitment to each other.

Without a strategically economic separation, Adachi and Kurosawa could not have achieved key moments of communication that led to their ability to find safety in their external environments, and make a personal and private permanent commitment to each other. The separation to Nagasaki was Adachi's lever to move their relationship forward.

It's so nuanced, so layered, and so strategic on Adachi's end, to use the work separation and his commitment to his company as such a motivator to propel his relationship forward and permanently with Kurosawa -- especially vis à vis the unique nuances of spoken and unspoken communication in Japanese society, which are remarkably different than the styles of communication we see in Thai dramas.

In Pran's and Pat's conclusion in the Thailand of Bad Buddy, they go in the opposite direction: for the sanctity and safety of their relationship, they act out a break-up scenario (with Dissaya telling Pran, "come back to your family," ha), and keep their committed relationship a secret. And this happens *two years* before the context of an actual, physical separation when Pran decides to move to Singapore after graduation.

It's a bit of a switcheroo from what we'd expect by way of open vs. closed communication between Japan and Thailand. But both scenarios, from Cherry Magic to Bad Buddy, work brilliantly well to ensure that all relationships are safe and solidified.

I'm not sure that I can say, globally, that separation from one's nuclear family, or separation from a partner, are common occurrences in manifested everyday reality. As I mentioned before, the economies of many countries are dependent on the physical separation of their citizens to other locales to send back monetary remittances. But more often than not -- when partners are partnered, they tend to want to stay by each other's sides.

I love that many Asian dramas do not shy away from the many realities as to why partners or children may be voluntarily or involuntarily separated from loved ones. Our beloved dramas show us the devastation of involuntary separations, as rendered by Dissaya unto Pran. We see that economic separations can actually LEAD to a solidifying of relationships in the case of Adachi and Kurosawa. We see that family-motivated separations, in the cause of Phupha and Tian, simply needed the investment of time for their relationship to reach a point of comfortable commitment. We see that agency-driven separations by Pharm and Oh-aew can lead to emotional clarity. And, we see that theoretical, secret-kept "separations," of the kind that Pat and Pran created for themselves, to protect their relationship, were risks worth taking, simply for them to be together and happy.

Pain and happiness are not emotions independent of each other. At least in the eyes of my Asian cultures, human beings embody all emotions, all the time. Humans are certainly primed, internally and socially, to seek happiness and balance. But as I've posited here in this post -- is there pleasure without pain? The pain of separation, the trust that partners and family members can learn from each other through separation, and the lessons and communicative ability to solidify relationships after the obstacles of separation, are all themes of life that, I think, are worth unwinding on, in glorious emotional detail. And I love that our beloved Asian dramas do not shy away from these examinations.

(Tagging @dribs-and-drabbles and @solitaryandwandering by request! If you'd like to be tagged, please let me know!)

[Well, this one was a doozy -- if you got through it all, I thank you! Next up, next week, is another post I've been dying to write for months. I had the opportunity to engage in lengthy conversation with a number of FABULOUS Asian Tumblr bloggers, all of us Bad Buddy stans, to reflect on our experiences as Asian reviewers watching BBS and to talk about what we related to. I have a list, a WHOLE LIST! of themes to expound on. I'm calling it Asian Cultural Touchpoints Within Bad Buddy. And I may need to split it into two posts, because there's a lot to talk about. Join me and my friends next week in our continued Bad Buddy brain-rot sesh!

Here is the status of the Old GMMTV Challenge watchlist. Tumblr's web editor loves to jack with this list; please head on over to this link for the very latest updates!

1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here) 2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here) 3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 5) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 9) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) (and notes on my UWMA rewatch here) 21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here) 23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here) 24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (not a true BL, but a MaxTul queer/gay romance set within a genre-based show that likely influenced Not Me and KinnPorsche) (review here) 25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (re-review here) 27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review here) 28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review here) 29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review here) 30) Not Me (2021-2022) (review here) 31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) (review here) 33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch (The BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series is ongoing: preamble here, part 1 here, and more reviews to come) 34) Secret Crush On You (2022) [watching for Cheewin’s trajectory of studying queer joy from Make It Right (high school), to SCOY (college), to Bed Friend (working adults)] (watching) 35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here) 36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For the Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist 37) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 38) The Eclipse OGMMTVC Rewatch For the Sake of Re-Analyzing an Politics-Focused Show After Not Me 39) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 40) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 41) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 42) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) 43) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) 44) Wedding Plan (2023) 45) Only Friends (2023) (tag here)]

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bengiyo · 3 months

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Cherry Magic TH Ep 7 Stray Thoughts

Last week, Achi realized how much Karan has been quietly taking care of him, and realized that his life is harder without Karan around. He realized that he wasn't doing either of them any favors by holding back and ran to him. Pai, seeing her ship about to set sail, "borrowed" a motorcycle to make the airport scene happen. Meanwhile, Rock affirmed how much he admires Pai, and Min and Jinta had a very cute impromptu date.

Yes, Pai, silence the Rokaku analogue so he doesn't ruin a moment.

There is a beauty in the sunset in that it's safest to look at the sun when it's moving away.

Now I want to read How To Be A Normal Person again.

There is a softness with Jinta and Min that I really like.

As a man, it is so sexy to me that Karan wanted to take Achi to get this shirt.

I'm with you Pai. Good food and good shows can keep you going for a while.

Oh good. They're just rushing Jinta to finish the book and not to make a character straight.

You know this barista is a good friend because he's giving Karan shit.

Good. Jinta should keep his glasses.

Jinta, bro, put your fucking glasses on.

Goddamn Tay Tawan is beautiful.

Why are we getting in a helicopter? This is how we lost Kobe! This is not KinnPorsche!

Look at Lays giving the ad to the het pairing. A bold decision

He's talking like Rob Thomas! Get out of there, Pai!!

I'm enjoying Min and Jinta a lot. Mark plays fond well, and I like the show playing out Jinta realizing explicitly that he has to talk and listen to develop closeness.

Incredible. Karan is going all out but this date is rather flat.

Okay, I am enjoying the bestie debrief after their dates.

This episode has been kinda slow, but I am enjoying Achi talking with Jaran directly about how he's feeling.

This scene was really good. Thai BL often relies heavily on dialogue to convey feelings, and I think Cherry Magic is well suited to that. I like that there is an explicit question about being a couple.

Ah, yes. It's time to deal with the magic powers.

Oh no. We're using the workplace itself as an obstacle now.

This episode felt a bit slow, but it finished pretty strong. I'm really enjoying the way Achi feels distinct from the Japanese versions of Adachi, and I like the way they responded to the busted date. Curious if they're using the workplace and the boss as a sort of paternal obstacle.

#Ben watches #cherry magic #cherry magic th #cherry magic thailand #thai bl #bl series

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chaos0pikachu · 1 year

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tldr: bitches want gay shit, not het shit, with data and numbers to back it up; bonus Bible’s booty

so thinking about @discluded‘s essay on Mile and Apo’s upcoming historical drama, and Thailand’s bid for soft power got my brain thinking thoughts. I’ve talked about Thailand noticing the soft power of their BL media before along with why I think Chinese, South Korean, and other East Asian media (from television to novels, etc) are popping off in popularity in the last 5 years or so. Idk where those posts are and I’m to lazy to link them thus is life

The point! The point is tho reading discluded’s post made me think about F4 Thailand. Ironic, I know, since F4 is a het drama based off Boys Over Flowers a shojo manga from Japan that was released in 1992 and ended serialization in 2008.

Firstly, Boys Over Flowers FACINATES me b/c the god damn chokehold this series has on various Asian countries. I told a friend it’s comparable to like, Romeo and Juliet, in that it’s been adapted, remade, re-adapted, re-booted, re-imagined, and so on over and over and over again. Like there’s audio dramas, there’s films, there’s multiple live action TV shows, there’s an anime. Japan’s made two feature films, and two seasons of a TV. Taiwan had two seasons of a TV show, Korea had a tv show, China had two versions of the same show (one was a remake), Indonesia had two tv shows, India had a tv show, and finally Thailand was the latest to adapt it into a TV show in 2021 - 2022. The legacy of this story can’t be denied.

Now, my point? Okay so my point is I witnessed online the marketing for F4 Thailand in real time. It was interesting to me b/c I very rarely - and have not since - seen a ton of talk about a Thai drama that wasn’t BL or a horror or action film.

When it comes to the Thai film industry, the three genres I see discussed are: BL, Action, Horror. You can see this in what Netflix (America) offers in regards to Thai series specifically what ones they dub which shows like: Girl From Nowhere (which Netflix invested in a s2 and is a thriller/horror drama), The Whole Truth (a horror film), and Thai Cave Rescue (which they also have a documentary based on). Netflix is still (STUPIDLY) reluctant to purchase a license for any SK or Thai BL content (I know Semantic Error would blow the FUCK up on Netflix you idiots!!!) probably b/c investors are like, hmmmm but would gays of color sell? I would say they also have Your Name Engraved Herein but that’s an easier sell b/c its a drama and has more of that classic gay Oscars vibe (this isn’t an inherent bad thing don’t come for me).

Okay back to my point I s2g I have one.

So marketing for F4 Thailand was interesting b/c I actually saw it. I don’t see marketing cross over into my international waters for Thai het dramas. What helped this, and I fully believe this was done purposely, is the casting of Bright and Win who gained international popularity from 2Gether. Like, it seemed pretty obvious to me that casting Bright and Win was a bid to peak the interest of the international market, combined with casting them specifically in an adaption of one of the most famous and well known Asian romantic dramas of the last 30 years or so. This show was set-up to be A Hit.

But I don’t think it really worked internationally; bare with me, numbers time.

Now, ratings for F4 averaged at .441% on Thai TV, higher than Bad Buddy (which aired on the same network) which averaged at .121% and Kinnporsche which averaged at .314%.

I compared F4 to these two shows specifically b/c they aired in a similar timeframe (all three shows aired over the course of 2021 - 2022 except KP which only aired in 2022) and arguably Bad Buddy and Kinnporsche were the biggest BL shows in Thailand in those respective years.

F4 also did well in the Philippines, and ended up dubbed into Filipino, and it’s scheduled for re-broadcast in 2023. Honestly, it’s difficult to see how well F4 did internationally as there’s not a ton of information available on it. When I google “F4 Thailand reception” there’s not a lot of results, if I google “boys over flowers Thailand reception” I get this:

ngl I think it’s pretty funny that one of the top four most asked questions is if F4 is BL and again, it’s def b/c of Bright and Win’s casting. But given that there’s not a ton of information available, I glean that F4 didn’t do great in the western (American/Latin American/European) market. Not to say it didn’t do well.

On Google ratings: F4 Thailand lands at a 4.9 rating with 2619 reviews/ratings and Bad Buddy stands at a 5.0 with 1085 reviews/ratings

On MyDramaList F4 has a rating of 8.5/10 from 11,982 users, and Bad Buddy has a 8.5/10 from 26,445 users

On IMDb: F4 has a rating of 7.8/10 from 2.3k users, and Bad Buddy has 8.8/10 rating from 5k users

This isn’t a comparison about quality, but activity. I’m not here to make judgements on either shows quality, but rather international impact and relevancy. Outside of Google, Bad Buddy has more active users who left a rating or review on the website than F4, almost double in fact.

If you go to GMMTV’s official Youtube page and look at the most popular videos on the channel it’s majority....2Gether. Like my god so much 2Gether the CHOKEHOLD this show had on y’all:

More date and a comparison of F4 and Bad Buddy’s international numbers below, we’re getting into the meat now.

Now the actual F4 official trailer has 3.7 million views on GMMTV’s channel. Bad Buddy official trailer, also on GMMTV’s official channel, has 2.7 million views. Both are set at 1 year ago so they’re within the same or similar time frames for comparison.

To throw in there, the Kinnporsche official trailer was released 10 months ago and has clocked 7.1 million views total on Be On Cloud’s official channel. To keep up with the comparison, F4′s OST Who Am I clocked 21 million views at 1 year, while KP/Jeff Satur’s OST Why Don’t You Stay has clocked 36 million views at 8 months.

(completely unrelated sidenote but Vegas/Bible’s ass has 3.4 million views and I just find that fucking hilarious, the man’s booty got more youtube views than other studios episodes. The power of Bible booty)

You can watch episode 1 of F4 on GMMTV’s official youtube channel, but only episode 1 the rest are just previews for other episodes. Idk why, other series whether het or BL they have all the episodes available. There’s apparently 80 videos that are hidden, I’m wondering if you have to pay Youtube premium to access those. Since I only have episode 1 to compare, for comparisons sake, we can look at those numbers of F4′s ep01 and Bad Buddy’s, both of which are clocked at 1 year each, are as follows:

Bad Buddy ep01 [1/4]: 9.6 million

Bad Buddy ep01 [2/4]: 5.4 million

Bad Buddy ep01 [3/4]: 4.9 million

Bad Buddy ep01 [4/4]: 5 million

F4 Thailand Begins ep01 [1/4]: 1.7 million

F4 Thailand Begins ep01 [2/4]: 848k

F4 Thailand Begins ep01 [3/4]: 3.3 million

F4 Thailand Begins ep01 [4/4]: 747k

If you crunch these numbers, Bad Buddy’s total view count for episode 1 is around 25 million views. F4′s total view count is around 7 million views (if I’m doing my math correctly a bitch doesn’t work in maths).

Now, I don’t know what the premiere numbers for either of these series was. BUT, this shows that one series, Bad Buddy, has legs and the other, F4, didn’t.

Either way that’s a pretty sizable gap and a lot of international fans use Youtube as a means to legally watch and support these shows as shown in the availability of subtitles.

F4 has subtitle options in: English, Korean, Chinese (Taiwan), Portuguese, Turkish and Spanish

Bad Buddy has subtitle options in: English, Turkish, French, Indonesian, Spanish, Chinese (Hong Kong), Korean, Chinese (Taiwan), Vietnamese, Arabic, Portuguese, Polish, Italian, Burmese, Chinese (Simplified) and Bulgarian.

Bro, BULGARIAN.

As far as I can tell, IQIYI doesn’t release streaming data that I could find, so idk what the numbers are for Kinnporsche. I do know that Kinnporsche, since airing, has never let the sites Top 10 list which is an impressive feat after ending months ago.

So like, what does all this information mean~ exactly? Am I saying F4 Thailand was a flop? No, not even a little bit lol I don’t have enough data to really say definitively F4 was a flop nor is that really the point here.

The point here is about international impact, and the fact that in my humble ass opinion, Thailand’s het shows ain’t hitting internationally all THAT much. Not as much as their BL shows are and have been.

Objectively, going by Thai ratings, F4 did a lot better than Bad Buddy, but internationally? Internationally there’s a pretty visible gap from everything I’ve seen.

I think what GMMTV was hoping was by casting Bright and Win they’re pull in that international audience they had cultivated with the 2gether series. But het dramas are high key a dime a dozen in American/European/Latin American audiences. Folks go to Kdramas or Cdramas for het dramas (and I have theories on why those hit, namely Cdramas for the high fantasy aspects that Europe and America doesn’t deliver on and kdramas for being unashamedly high quality produced romances. Also the one-and-done factor).

Given the juggernaut success of Kinnporsche, not just in the west but also in other Asian countries I imagine that’ll influence other studios to try to follow suit even more to gain even a half-slice of that visibility and profitability. Kinnporsche, imo, is an outlier, it’s success is sorta like 2gether and TharnType in that there were a lot of factors outside of the show itself that led to it’s individual success.

Like, flat, argue with the wall, 2gether is NOT a good series. But, it was released right when lockdown began (literally, ep01 aired Feb 21, 2020), in a way 2gether was like Animal Crossing, GMMTV didn’t expect it to do THAT well especially internationally but it did partially b/c what the fuck else we people gonna do in lockdown? Watch a simple but cute gay romcom which there was a gap for - Love, Victor wouldn’t air it’s first episode until June 17th, 2020, and that was marketed less as a queer romcom and more as a queer coming of age story. There’s also the factor of The Untamed having ended - final episode August 20th, 2019 - and folks catching on to the growing and active existence of international queer media that wasn’t boxed in and tied down by American conventions.

I think what we’re going to see is the “next era” of BL. We saw the uptick in overall content post 2019/2020 with the success of 2Gether and TharnType, following the success of series like Why R U, Love By Chance, 1000 Stars, Lovely Writer, etc along with other countries getting in more on the game (namely South Korea) and the overall uptick in the amount of BL (and now GL!) shows across the board.

After 2gether we saw more BL shows, I think after Kinnporsche we’re going to see higher quality BL/GL shows. And I think we’re already seeing that. Semantic Error was a nice change of pace for SK b/c it was longer than 15mins, I think going forward given the success of SE we’re going to see SK branch out slowly into developing longer shows (no longer than 30 to 35mins tho to keep costs down) and better workshopping (some kisses in KBLs...my guys). While for Thailand I think we’re gonna see better quality shows. Not Me dropped the ball in some regards but visually the show was great. Cutie Pie’s story was incoherent sure but visually? Hot damn that was a good looking show. We’re also getting more interesting concepts out of Thailand too; like that Prince/bodyguard show coming out, the fact Kinnporsche did eventually get made and MileApo’s upcoming historical film.

this all got away from me but whatever, bitches want gay shit, peace

#mileapo #kinnporsche #tharntype #thai bl #bad buddy #idk what else to tag this as #here ya go here are thoughts y'all #chaos pikachu talks to damn much #chaos pikachu metas

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forkaround · 1 year

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I watched a video about Queerbaiting in BL coz that was the title and I was like WHaT!? One big part of it was the fan service in interviews. And to that I just have to say it's none of your business AND it's not like het shows don't do fan service. It's a marketing technique. The same way burgers in real life don't look like they do in ads. And if you really want it to stop then stop watching it. Stop talking about it. Marketing only works when you let it. When you buy what they are selling. Are the companies morally dub for doing it? Yeah. But they are a company. Selling a product. And you can influence that.

Kinnporsche's success is going to change things for the industry in multiple ways. This is one of them.

Also you have no right to a human being's sexuality or political opinions. They signed up to look pretty and act. Not to be your moral compass.

#thai bl #poltical opinion #queerbating #kinnporsche #love in the air #vice versa #gmmtv #the eclipse #big dragon #gap the series #war of y #kabe koji #coffee melody #love mechanics #between us

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imminentinertia · 3 months

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SHIPPER TAG GAME

@lurkingshan tagged me, thank you darling! So now I'm forced to admit that whispers I'm honestly not much of a shipper

I get into shows and films, but rarely so much that I get invested in couples (canon or otherwise). Even rarer, so much that I start taking ship war sides. Notable exception: Harmony (Harry/Hermione) because that ship came with the stupidest shit I've ever seen in any fandom.

1. What ship were you completely obsessed with when you were a teenager, but now you don't care anymore?

What do you mean, don't care anymore. I absolutely do care about every ship I've ever shipped.

No wait - as a very young teenager I was so into Alice Hoffman's books it's not even funny. Especially Property Of. I wasn't terribly into the nameless main character, but I adored The Dolphin and thought McKay would be much better off with him. Then I grew up and realised that Property Of is pretty badly written and has a frightfully naïve plot (no wonder, she was practically a baby when she wrote it), although it really hit the spot for a 13 year old with a rabid case of bad boy syndrome, and completely stopped caring about any of the characters.

2. Which ship would you consider your first one?

The first I went insane about was Harry/Draco, so probably that.

3. Your first fanfic belonged to which couple?

Harry/Draco. I wasn't going to write fic at all! Wasn't interested in writing them myself! But I got so fed up with all the horrible purple prose in a lot of fics, wrote a pisstake, and it escalated.

4. Do you remember the first couple you saw a fanart over?

No. That was so many years ago. SO MANY.

5. Did you ever get into ship discourse?

No. When I get into discourse it's about other things than ships. When I try to start discourse it's definitely about other things.

6. Did you used to have any no-otp or have it currently?

Some pairings squick me, but I tend to forget the horrors as quickly as I discover them.

7. Who were the couple in the last fanfic you read?

Jaeyoung/Sangwoo (Semantic Error).

8. Currently, do you have any OTPs?

VEGAS/PETE. I also adore a number of other BL couples, but that's the OTP. Show versions, not book originals.

9. Is there any couple that, to this day, you are extremely mad about not getting together?

Spooks WASTED A BRIILLIANT OPPORTUNITY for a ship that could have been either canon or not-canon by KILLING A GUY ten minutes after he meets THE POTENTIAL LOVE OF HIS CANON OR NOT-CANON LIFE. They barely had time to share some chips. YES I AM EXTREMELY MAD, 16 YEARS LATER.

10. Is there any ship you used to dislike but now you think they are kind of interesting?

To me, any ship that's well written and where both characters are well formed and not limp 2D shit can be kind of interesting. I can't remember any of my squick pairings starting to intrigue me. Does it count that I used to dislike any KinnPorsche pairing featuring Ken, but I'm starting to quite like them?

11. Do you have any ship that, in the past, was considered normal but now you would be cancelled over?

Oh, I'm sure I do. I like age gaps. People are often very weird about them.

12. What was your favorite crack ship?

Giant Squid/anyone. Such a great setup for crack tentacle porn.

13. Who is the couple you read more fanfics of?

I've read a fuckton of Harry/Draco, but because of betaing and rec blog running it might be Even/Isak? Give it enough time and it will be Vegas/Pete.

14. What most of your ships usually have in common?

At least one, preferably both, of the parties is a criminal. Okay, that also has to do with what sorts of films and shows get made and appeal to me, but I love a good criminal so much and I just can't get interested in some goody two-shoes. I can honestly only think of Even/Isak when I try to list my ships that don't feature a delicious criminal. Preferably unhinged murderers, but I'll take minor misdemeanours too.

15. What do you absolutely hate in a ship?

Big fat traditional seme/uke or het dynamics where the seme/man blatantly doesn't give a canon shit about the uke/woman. I could write a thesis on this, I suppose.

As usual I don't dare to actually tag people, but if you've made it this far, you are so tagged.

#tag game

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absolutebl · 1 year

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This Week In BL - I’m All Over The Place & Sarcastic About It

Nov 2022 Wk 1

Being a highly subjective assessment of one tiny corner of the interwebs. Organized by which ones (in each category) I’m enjoying the most.

Ongoing Series - Thai

My Only 12% (Fri iQIYI) 13 of 14 - Cake is such a bratty seme. And we got incandescently happy boyfriends for half an episode, and then Earth gets to cry. Earth always cries. Good thing he’s pretty at it. I do actually like the noona romance. Sometimes even the hets get to me. Because I'm a sap. And I love a pining younger man. I actually really really loved the bit at the end with the two mothers. It’s really rare to see that level of older adult character representation and close female friendship in a BL.

Big Dragon (Sat Gaga) 5 of 8 - Oh, I knew this was going to get rough but I didn’t think they would actually fist fight. It’s interesting that this one is up against Falanruk, because I hated the two player system in that one, but I’m fine with it in this show. There’s a touch of TharnType or maybe more KinnPorsche with Mangkorn & Yai, that they pivot so quickly from violence to sex, hate to passion. Real enemies to lovers with all that bottled up passion destined to explode one way or the other. The sex in this show is similarly treated as a kind of violence, in a kinky way. Also it’s v high heat. But from a romance thread standpoint? The way these two are dodging about each other is just frustrating. Also... NO SINGING!

Ai Long Nhai (Mon iQIYI) 6 of 10 - Baby’s first jealousy. But omg is this show slow. I think it’s fair for Ai to want Nhai to actually say something positive about their relationship. I like that these 2 talk fully about sex before having it. And now it’s a secret relationship. (I do keep imagining what Mike & TT would have done with these roles.) Oh HI Games! (Second Chance). Cutie! This sudden side dish is v good, gimme MOAR? CRUMBS. @heretherebedork CRUMBS!

Ghost Host, Ghost House (Weds YouTube) 5 of 8 - Wait, who are these girls allasudden? I guess they are Kewin’s fag hags? I suppose every good gay does need a coven? Especially if ghosts are involved.

Makes me wonder who I’d draft for my BL coven... hum. I sense a meme coming on.

Remember Me (Sun Gaga) 4 of 12 - Mean’s wig is so terrible. Yes, I realize that’s intentional. But still, too distracting. Props shouldn’t be required to do your comedic acting for you, honey. I really do like the actor who plays Champ, and I really want him to lead out his own BL. (If he wants to of course.) I’m so glad JaFirst are finally occupying the screen together. They’re just that much better when they’re TOGETHER.

Love in the Air (Thurs iQIYI) 12 of 13 These two do heat so well. Ugh but the dairy reading “reconciliation” scene was truly gross. This show. Why is the villian the seme? Look, sorry Thailand, Japan can do this, you just... can’t. It’s clumsy and makes anyone with half an empathy uncomfortable. - DUMPSTER FIRE TRASH WATCH ALONG HERE.

Hard Love Mission (Sat WeTV) 3 of 4fin - Phenomenally dull Thai pulp about a journalist sent to interview a celebrity who ends up his manager, only 4 episodes and it still could’ve been shorter. It’s a bummer, the concept wasn’t bad. ALSO Chinese censorship got its gross mitts all over it (thank you, Tencent). Do not waste your time. I DON'T KNOW WHAT I’M WATCHING AND NEITHER DOES IT 3/10

Work from Heart (Thurs YouTube) 7fin - Just lovely, all the hets are getting married! How rare and special of them. How lucky they are. But I have no idea what’s going on with our leads. It’s very Romeo & Romeo allasudden. And the grandpa is v confusingly evil. Great chemistry, but like Check Out, just a terrible story and an ultimately unfathomable BL. 4/10 FATALLY FLAWED

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

My Tooth Your Love (Taiwan Fri Viki) 5 of 12 - These leads! Best example of the pillow clutch trope ever? I think so. World’s most gentle flirts. Seriously: The Ache. We dealing with some serious abandonment issues. Meanwhile, in the land of May/December, baby boy kabedon is my kryptonite! (Also the name of my indie band’s first single.) I identify WAY too much with the bartender character. He pretty much opens his mouth and says what I’m thinking 90% of the time.

“Someone’s lack of defenses can be so overwhelming.” - Best BL quote of 2022? May be.

Choco Milk Shake (Korea Strongberry Tues YT) 3-4 of 10 - postponed until next week. Read about why here.

Roommates of Poongduck 304 (Korea Thurs Viki) 7-8fin. Ah regrets after a drunken gay pass. Also: killer confrontation confession scene with them both so torn and confused and hurt and unsure! Brilliant. It’s so cute after, with them soft & cute with each other as experimental bfs. JaeYun having fangirls was adorbs, and HoJoon dealing with the resulting jealousy was fun to watch. Also HoJoon is so gone and so inept and uncool about it. And then JaeYoon learns who HoJoon really is. Man this show moves FAST. Ah KBL. I wish we had more time with these characters. I would have liked sweet bfs for longer. And Holland is back, such an adorable plot device. Hi, cutie! The reconciliation/confession was good. How much do I love that the final make-out scene was precipitated by the eroticism of informal language? SO MUCH. V linguistically sexy. FInal review below.

Kabe Koji (Japan Mon Viki) 5 of 10 - This is going to be weird sounding coming from me but I think what I’ve decided that this show is just too much manga. Not yaoi per say but MANGA. Like, aggressively MANGA. I was thinking as I watched, “This singing group is comically bad.” Then I realized, “Oh that’s intentional, like the credit sequences for ABL - they are meant to be.” And then I realized: Every part of this show is a parody. Not the same as ABLon the whole, but similar in its components: The idol group is a parody of all idol groups. The high school drama is a parody of all high school dramas. The otaku mangaka is a parody of all otaku mangaka. The yaoi is a parody of all yaoi. And the BL of all BL. In the end, this entire show is just Japan messing with us. And frankly I’m beginning to enjoy it for that when I actually dont’ enjoy it as a BL at all. Again, like ABL.

Eternal Yesterday AKA Eien no Kino (Japan Thurs Gaga) 3 of 8 - I do enjoy the credit music on this one. Backstory ep: so we get to watch them fall in love. Goodie. Pain for all! Or more, watch Mitchan fall and be confused, since Koichi is already utterly gone. Argh! Why does Japan always spend its best pennies on pain? A truly glorious confession scene, and then... a dead fish kiss. For which I’m actually strangely grateful. Frankly, if they also managed the physical chemistry in this show, it’d totally destroy me. This way I’m going to be only mildly destroyed. *whimper*

It’s Airing But I’m Not Watching It

War of Y 20 eps - it’s just all too much for me.

My Roommate 32 eps of 2 minutes each + terrible production values? - I’m not bothering.

Fahlanruk (Sun GaGa) 12 eps - I cut my losses at ep 5. DNF

To Sir With Love AKA Khun Chai 28 eps - dito

2 Moons 3 Thai (Mon ??) 10 eps - Possibly a future binge watch. Rumor is it’s banal.

SELF (Thurs YT) - DNF

Love Bill (Vietnam Sat YT) 1of ? - Bah Vinh is back but I’m too distracted. Also there’s a lot of fund raising and stuff going on. Thinking I’ll wait and binge.

In Case You Missed It

Roommates of Poongduck 304 (Korea Viki) quick pitch:

This is a solid little office set KBL about a rich kid who ends up both the boss and tenant of a total sweetheart cutie, and falls madly in love with him. Although the show suffered from KBL’s shorter length, I love the kissable lips pair, they deliver solid all round chemistry despite limited screen time, which is rare from Korea. So I hope they stay branded and we get even more from them in the future. Ultimately I recommend this show, a solid 8/10.

If Japan didn’t dominate the office BL niche with shows like Cherry Magic and Old Fashion Cupcake this BL probably would get higher marks for me. But it’s a difficult hill to climb (although I’m delighted to see Korea try). Even though Japan and Korea often give us the same length shows, I feel the brevity in the Korean stuff in a way that I don’t with the Japanese stuff. Frankly I think it’s Japan’s sophisticated cinematography facilitating the complexity required by shortness (what’s left out has to be implied by the lens and the acting) where Korea’s more commercial and simplistic style (which works great in longer Kdramas or something like Light On Me) falls short (pun intended) with their short KBLs.

OH, and here’s a special extra extended kissing scene for this pair, just for extra proof on chemistry.

I’m finishing up my UWMA rewatch today.

Gossip

Much anticipated office set Thai GL GAP the series will have 12 eps and will premier on Nov 19 on Idolfactory’s (SCOY) official youtube channel. Go subscribe, now. Trailer here.

Next Week Looks Like This:

TOMORROW! Between Us (Sun iQIYI & YouTube?) - trailer here

Tuesday: I Will Knock You (Tues Gaga) - Bad boy/good boy + sunshine/grumpy + younger seme pairing.

LITA & 12% finish.

Nov 2022 line up:

Nov 18: I Will Knock You (Fri Gaga) A college kid & tutor confronts the leader of a gang who then turns out to be his next student. Bad boy/good boy + sunshine/grumpy, + younger seme pairing, bully romance?. Adapted from korean_rabbit's y-novel of the same name, directed by Champ (2gether).

Nov 19: GAP the series (Sat YT) - 12 ep office set GL from Thailand.

Nov 26: 609 Bedtime Story (?? WeTV) - another OhmFluke vehicle that’s rumored to be a good story. A one night stand leads to a series of mysterious premonitions and a possible parallel universe.

Nov ??: My School President (?? GMMTV YT) initial trailer here - it’s Love Sick + Korea & Japan's influence.

This week’s best moments?

That’s one way of putting it honey. (Tooth)

Baby’s first kabedon! (Tooth)

Meanwhile, in the land of Big Dragon, they trying on Taiwan for size (that’s what he said).

The mosquito trope returns with a vengeance this week!

Is it a WinTeam foreshadow from the whole Thai BL industry?

Might be!

TOMORROW!

Rise up broccoli nation!

This weeks earworm: Kang Daniel’s Parade

(last week)

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talkingbl · 2 years

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Policing Sex and Shaming Folks for Liking LITA

Let's talk about all the girlies mad about sexy BLs finally getting some shine these days.

While BL's move toward including sexual themes in dramas was met with great fanfare, there's a growing backlash toward these productions brewing underneath the surface. Soft BL fans complain that BLs have gotten too raunchy and that all of the "top BLs" are all sex and no plot. These stans have taken to the forums and Twitter streets to shame hard fans as gross fetishizers and liken shows with heavy sexual themes to "softcore porn."

I want to address these concerns.

BL isn't being overrun with sex, it's just becoming more diverse.

People keep parroting the idea that BL is all about sex now and there's no plot/art/etc. to be found anymore (this, despite the fact that most BLs pre-2gether are a dumpster fire of cliches and unsatisfying romance). But if you really look, BL is as fluffy as it's always been. Many of the most talked-about BLs fall decidedly out of the sexy category and even explore topics like politics, wealth inequality, workers' rights, family, LGBTQ+ rights, self acceptance, social anxiety, and much more. More than that, a lot of these shows are devoid of any real sexuality. In the past 2 years, we've had: 1000 Stars, Bad Buddy, Cherry Blossoms After Winter, Fish Upon The Sky, ITSAY, My Gear & Your Gown, etc. that don't even feature actual sex scenes and yet deal with complex themes and plot points like those listed above. These are but a few popular examples of many.

2. Even if BL's are featuring sexual relationships, what's the real problem?

Look, I understand there are people who prefer not to have sex scenes in their content for a variety of reasons. But my problem is the idea that BLs shouldn't be sexual or that popular BLs shouldn't contain sex at all so as to appeal to this audience. This is frankly ridiculous. There are so many BLs that will give you what you want if you wish not to see sex scenes. But to try and shut out any sex is messed up for those who want to see different types of relationships on camera.

3. People who enjoy BLs with sex scenes aren't all evil.

Of course some are lmao but it's such a large community that to paint everyone with one stroke is disingenous. Someone enjoying LITA or KinnPorsche is not going to end the world. Indeed, romance as a genre has historically featured sex to ground stories and showcase the very real sexual situations present in most romantic relationships. Not seeing how it makes someone a bad person to want to see the things we get in het romances in BL/GL/etc. romances.

#thai bl boys love #korean bl #1000 stars a tale of a thousand stars bad buddy #cherry blossoms after winter fish upon the sky futs bbs itsay i told sunset about you #my gear and your gown kinnporsche love in the air lita

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bunnakit · 6 months

Note

8, 12, 17 and take this flowers too 🌺🌻🌷

🌸 bl ask game 🌸

8) First BL - Between Us! I saw ads for it constantly from iQiyi in my targeted ads and I finally caved because Boun was just so pretty. It wasn't the best introduction to BL (I'd previously watched het Korean, Thai, and Chinese dramas) but it opened the door and for that it will always have a special place in my heart. (I also immediately went and got 4 piercings in one day because I just couldn't contain my gender envy for Boun.)

12) Most Rewatched BL - Absolutely KinnPorsche. I rewatched it obsessively when I finished it, made my husband and four different friends watch it with me. I was in a full blown addiction. Not Me is a very close second place, though!

17) Best Kiss - I might get flak for this but nothing has topped the TanBunn couch kiss from Manner of Death for me. The way Tan grabs Bunn's hair and puts his leg up on the couch, the way it's almost violent in its desperation, and the absolutely sinful face Bunn makes once he's laid out on the couch. I'll be interested to see if anything ever replaces it for me (though the SeanWhite kiss is a close 2nd, I'm so sorry Bad Buddy Kiss Supremacy Truthers.)

Thank you for the flowers my beloved! 🌸

#bunn asks #ask game #between us #kinnporsche the series #kpts #manner of death #MoD #sherry my beloved #🌸bl ask game

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luckydragon10 · 1 year

Text

I did a thing. For lots of reasons, I did a thing.

The Lady Doth Protest (985 words) by LuckyDragon Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: KinnPorsche: The Series (TV) Rating: Mature Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply Relationships: Porsche Pachara Kittisawat/Kinn Anakinn Theerapanyakun Characters: Kinn Anakinn Theerapanyakun, Porsche Pachara Kittisawat Additional Tags: female kinn, male porsche, Female!Kinn Anakinn Theerapanyakun, Male!Porsche Pachara Kittisawat, kind of, Short, Ficlet, Oneshot, Crack, Het, Gender or Sex Swap, heterosexual tropes, lots of 'em, Purple Prose, Humor, no beta we die like Khun Spikes, anti-gatekeep, protest, write what you want to write, Don't Like Don't Read, don't like don't shame, Dead Dove: Do Not Eat Summary: Porsche finds Kinn standing in front of the mirror of her bathroom, leaning over it as she applies a tasteful dusting of blush to her stunning cheekbones.

~~~

In other news, it's REALLY freeing to just say "fuck it" and write as trashy as I wanna write. 🤣

~~~

And please see also @daswarschonkaputt's ficlet! Look Don't Leap

#write what you want to write #kinnporsche #kinnporsche fanfic #my fanfic #the lady doth protest #don't miss the surprise twist ending!#anti-gatekeep #dead dove do not eat #don't like don't read #don't like don't shame #kinnporsche crack

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lutawolf · 1 year

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I posted 2,232 times in 2022

That's 2,232 more posts than 2021!

917 posts created (41%)

1,315 posts reblogged (59%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@ellaspore

@acacia-luna-royal

@victooooorious

@rainbowcolored7

@biochemjess

I tagged 982 of my posts in 2022

#coconuts mafia - 198 posts

#luta opinions - 192 posts

#streaming kinnporsche on iqiyi - 153 posts

#kinnporsche the series - 150 posts

#luta question and answer - 145 posts

#kinnporsche - 134 posts

#kinnporsche luta - 116 posts

#not me the series - 112 posts

#luta - 104 posts

#not me series - 96 posts

Longest Tag: 118 characters

#i think another reason why i like bl is it won't ever be me so it's free of the stereotypical portrayal of a het woman

I sent 1 gift in 2022

My Top Posts in 2022:

Love In the Air Ep 5 Review & Running Commentary

My freak flag is waving and I'm here to review for my fellow kinksters and the vanillas that want to be informed. For those that are new here, I do have previous reviews that can be found here. I've been asked how I feel about the lack of discussion and guidelines. I think this is a lifestyle couple from Thailand, which most Asian countries already have a soft D/s lifestyle. From what I've seen of the Asian relationships around me is that they are similar to the US South. Where someone in the relationship always holds more control. Which means there is already an expectation of figuring out who is in charge. In which case there is a softer way of doing guidelines and harder on consent commands. You'll see this same play out in more experienced D/s relationships because they are already familiarized. Also going over guidelines can take days, nobody wants to wait and go through that in their show. Okay, clearly some people do but not me. I'd rather skip to the good part.

Speaking of good part. We ended on a really good part last week. I just want to remind everyone of that before we get to the drama, lol. Okay, so there is just something about seeing the day after when they are still in the bed. It just instantly puts you into that moment. It's this warm and fuzzy feel. And he is sick. By the way I got a lot of answers to the Sick In The Rain comment but basically the rain comes during cold/flu season, which makes them more susceptible. Really interesting. I appreciate everyone who answered my question.

So back to Rain being sick. NO! But now that Rain belongs to Payu, he'll take care of him. Omg, Payu caring before almost killed me, now that he'll be more open about it. I'm gonna die! By the way... That hair. 👀 It's so fucking hot. Oh bless him, I know what it's like to wake up with a headache. Sucks ass and not in a good way either (if you didn't catch my Vegas reference, you most go straight to jail and you do not get to pass go). Yeah Rain, you didn't stand a chance luckily for us. Mom is valid. I don't care who you are, child or roommate. If you aren't coming home, call. So people don't worry, it's not about age, it's about respect and safety. These are top priority in BDSM too.

See the full post

336 notes - Posted September 15, 2022

Guys! Can we please talk about this moment.

Porsche is normally the one doing the picking up in his sexual escapades. Look at him just fucking flying at Kinn. It's so natural and he is so happy.

392 notes - Posted May 29, 2022

Kinnporsche Masterlist

Thoughts & running commentary by episode: Masterlist

My Dominant/sub posts: Masterlist

Different D/s roles

Kinn being The Dom of Kinnporsche 1-14 Masterlist

Porsche being the brat submissive of Kinnporsche by iffy

Vegas and Pete S/m: Masterlist

Other Masterlists

Unforgotten Night

My Beautiful Man

Not Me

Love In The Air

Until We Meet Again

Between Us

Movie Reviews: Love and Leashes

For other master lists check out Coconuts Mafia

By the way, you can all thank @liankuea for this.

Please Re-blog, I love it! But please do not repost any of my blog onto other social medias without giving me credit. I do have requests to Re-blog in a different language with credit. I'm absolutely good with that 💜

If you don't address me in an Ask with at least Hi Luta, don't expect me to be nice. Why?

405 notes - Posted May 13, 2022

I'm seeing a lot of comments saying Porsche is the Dominant. I mean, I see some of your points and the validity in them. I just don't agree nor see it. Maybe I'm making correlations because, I personally live in a relationship with a Dominant male who is a sexual submissive to me.

Let's unpack the questions and see.

Porsche called Kinn out on his jealousy. He sure did, but it was in a submissive brat manner. As I mentioned in my notes it's all in the body language. He is not moving towards Kinn in a domineering stance he has leaned back and shifts down. Yet he is using his words to goad Kinn. What do you think submissive brat behavior is? It's struggling, small annoyances, and verbally talking back.

Because Porsche took control of the hand job at the end. Okay, this one I don't know what to think about it. I mean you're basically saying if I give my husband a hand job. Get him off but continue to get finger banged and lose myself in an orgasim that I am no longer Dominant. Well, okay, let me just go tell my husband that I'm not Dominant, hahaha! We'll just ignore the Dominant stance of Kinn's hand controlling Porsche's head the entire time, hmm.

He calls him out on the lack of trust. This is just fucking insulting to a submissive. It implies they are doormats to take abuse. That is not what submission is! It is a power imbalance but it does not take away a submissive's right to be treated with respect. Yes, there are some submissives that do enjoy that but it is a subcategory of submissive and does not describe all of them.

I've already explained the neck. Porsche's five second touching of Kinn's throat is in no way comparable to the complete control Kinn had over Porsche's entire fucking head. Not only that, there is absolutely no rule stating a submissive can't touch the throat. A D/s relationship is subject to their own personal guidelines of what is allowed. And to be very honest, I'm 89% sure that was an Apo move done unintentionally.

Porsche keeps proving he is the one in control and owns Kinn. Want me to point out each and every time Kinn used ownership words for Porsche and Porsche allowed it. Basked in it even but never once tried to return it. "Vegas always wants what's mine" "My bodyguard" "When you are done return to me both the gun and yourself" I mean that whole statement right there was ownership with Porsche smiling.

Now let me also point out to you Kinn's Dominant "come give me a hug" to which Porsche readily responds. He does not ASK Porsche for a hug, he commanded. A sub asks, like how Porsche does with Kinn on multiple occasions. He not only uses words but body language, the only time this changes is when he is being a brat.

Edited to talk about Kinn showing vulnerability. Do you guys really think that my husband has never held me as I cried. That as a Dominant, that I've some how given up the right to break down? That this somehow makes me less? Let me assure you that is all far from the truth.

Another edit because there keeps being more. Porsche was above Kinn which signifies the switch in power I've got to disagree. Notice how Porsche didn't put himself above Kinn, Kinn purposely placed him above him. When Porsche turns around from the mirror they are even. Kinn grips the back of Porsche's neck (again, Dominant move) and then lowers himself to inhale Porsche. From that point on Kinn is purposely placing Porsche above him. It's an apology.

Okay, thank you for coming to my Luta talk. Please feel free to ask any questions but don't come at me. 💜💜💜 Please understand that if you don't agree with me on the D/s or even who the D/s are. I respect that. Some of the above though is not only inaccurate to the community it's insulting.

425 notes - Posted May 22, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

The D/s series: Kinn as a Dominant

(This is a companion piece to Iffervescent's sub post, that can be found here)

There have been a lot of requests for more information on the Kinnporsche D/s element. The amazing Iffervescent and I thought that we could provide this information to you all while enjoying ourselves. Seriously. You should have seen me taking this BDSM (Iffervescent's Idea!) as Kinn. The test was fun, interesting, and a little stare into a light bulb to cleanse my mind. Then excited babbling about the results afterwards. So without further delay.

Could It Be More Accurate!!

So Kinn is a Dom. What is a Dom and how so? Dom/sub: Is a power balance. A Dominant, or Dom, refers to BDSM relationships and the role one person takes. In this role, this person has more control/power/authority in the D/s relationship.

Though a Dom wants and needs control. They are also the ones with the responsibility to care for and the protection of their sub.

You can clearly see how Kinn is the Dominant in the relationship between him and Porsche. It's there in the way he'll push and pull Porsche, he controls Porsche's movements especially his head, the crock of his finger and especially in how he cages Porsche in until he calms down. It's in the way that once Porsche feels that he has his Doms attention, he relaxes.

See the full post

450 notes - Posted May 30, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#tumblr2022 #year in review #my 2022 tumblr year in review #your tumblr year in review #coconuts mafia

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waitmyturtles · 5 months

Text

Turtles Catches Up With Old GMMTV: The Bad Buddy Rewatch Edition, Part 3a -- BBS and Asian Cultural Touchpoints

[What’s going on here? After joining Tumblr and discovering Thai BLs through KinnPorsche in 2022, I began watching GMMTV’s new offerings -- and realized that I had a lot of history to catch up on, to appreciate the more recent works that I was delving into. From tropes to BL frameworks, what we’re watching now hails from somewhere, and I’m learning about Thai BL's history through what I’m calling the Old GMMTV Challenge (OGMMTVC). Starting with recommendations from @absolutebl on their post regarding how GMMTV is correcting for its mistakes with its shows today, I’ve made an expansive list to get me through a condensed history of essential/classic/significant Thai BLs produced by GMMTV and many other BL studios. My watchlist, pasted below, lists what I’ve watched and what’s upcoming, along with the reviews I’ve written so far. Today, I offer the first half of the third (ha!) of five posts on Bad Buddy. I'll look today at themes that myself and fellow Asian fans of Bad Buddy have caught and related to in this wonderful show.]

Links to the BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series are here: part 1, part 2, part 3a, part 3b, and part 4

As a lifelong viewer of Asian dramas, and as an Asian-American myself, I know why I'm drawn to Asian dramas. We all have our reasons for belonging to this widespread fandom, whether you're watching queer or het Asian dramas, consuming Asian music, all of it.

What are my reasons? The first and foremost one is relatability. Especially in Asian dramas, I relate to the spoken and unspoken communication of the dramatic characters as they navigate life's highs and lows. I relate to the way Asian dramatic characters engage with their families, their partners, their children, their colleagues, the world and societies around them. I relate to the ways in which societies are drawn and constructed, to the economic and emotional pressures that characters face. As an American -- I don't fully relate to the majority of experiences that white American characters face dramatically, because I'm not a part of the majority. As an Asian? I get almost all of what Asians are going through in dramatic art (save for, say, Korean or Japanese historicals, ha — but I do indeed get Asian patriarchy and sexism).

I'm not queer -- I am a cishet Asian woman -- but what I appreciate about queer Asian media is, very often, the media's tendency to not be shy about the various and intricate ways that discrimination, sexism, trauma (intergenerational, emotional, etc.), and many more social and emotional phenomena interplay in an individual's life.

When I first watched Bad Buddy, I had the strong sense that what I was watching was incredibly relatable to much of my upbringing and life as a young adult, working out issues vis à vis my family and my eventual partner. Bad Buddy, thematically, captured a tremendous amount of the realities of everyday Asian life for young people.

Bad Buddy exists in the GMMTV bubble of No Homophobia (cc @bengiyo and @lurkingshan, as we have spoken about the GMMTV bubble). However, what Bad Buddy didn't shy away from were explorations of many other social/emotional/cultural themes and frameworks of everyday life, from sexism, to youth bias, to boundaries and enmeshment, and many, many more.

I wrote in my first-ever Bad Buddy thesis that the framework of intergenerational trauma was the main theme I identified -- and identified with -- in the show. But, as I was contemplating writing this series of Bad Buddy meta posts, I wanted to know: what did my fellow Asians pick up in this show that they saw, and that they related to? In other words: what makes Bad Buddy particularly special to Asian fans of the show?

So, I did a thing. I gathered together a few BBS Asian stans, like myself, for a lengthy (and still ongoing!) discussion about what we related to in Bad Buddy. I want to thank, from the bottom of my heart, @telomeke, @grapejuicegay, @recentadultburnout, @neuroticbookworm, and @lurkingshan (who's not Asian, but has Asian relatives, and gets us!) for being up for creating a spontaneous mini-village together to talk Bad Buddy and its inherent Asianness.

It sounds redundant to identify Bad Buddy, a show made by Thais and set in Thailand, as an "Asian" or "Thai" show. It's definitely not a show that steps back to take a look at itself and say, "oh hey, this is really 'Thai,' what we're doing here." When I asked @recentadultburnout directly about what they might have identified as uniquely Thai about Bad Buddy, RAB thought about it and said -- maybe Pat's ranak ek (Thai xylophone). Other shows of Aof Noppharnach's, including He's Coming To Me, Moonlight Chicken, and even the start of Last Twilight, highlight many facets of Thai life, from the spiritual to the everyday-cultural (even Gay OK Bangkok does this a bit, too). But Bad Buddy doesn't really go there by way of overt symbolism and/or specifically Thai spiritual/cultural practice.

The Asianness of Bad Buddy is far more inherent. It is rooted and coded in the way people interact with each other.

An overt example occurs in episode 10, when Dissaya confronts Ming in the Jindapat home, and announces that she will reveal Ming's secret, dropping the effort she has made her entire life to "save face" -- her reputation AND Ming's reputation.

During my first Bad Buddy rewatch, I was so moved in fury by this scene that I had to blog about it as if I had never seen it before. There's so much encapsulated in this moment: the pressure that Dissaya has put on herself to keep the embarrassing secret that she lost a scholarship; the effort she made to keep Ming's theft of the scholarship a secret, to save his face, and the secrets she kept from Pran to save her face, and to keep up the façade of rivalry between the Jindapats and the Siridechawats. She was letting a whole hell of a lot loose in this moment, because the eternal pressure of saving face in Asian societies is, frankly, never-ending.

"Saving face" is an incredibly important notion in many Asian collectivist cultures. Saving face is about an individual or a family projecting an image of calm, cool collectedness and success, in order to not make waves within a collectivist society for any reason. If you are not working to seem like you are going with the flow of life, if you're not keeping up with the Joneses, the Kardashians, whoever -- you are not saving face. If you are in poverty, and are projecting an image of poverty, instead of pretending to be more wealthy than you are -- you are not saving your face or your family's face. If you allow yourself to get publicly defeated -- you are not saving face. Dissaya gave up a lot of her hard-earned reputation in the moment she confessed the truth in front of Pat and Pat's mother.

My Asian friends and I can click wordlessly into understanding the pressure of saving face; say that I didn't get good grades in school? I wouldn't be saving my parents' face. This kind of pressure to keep up with particular social dynamics within and external to family, within Asian societies, is a neverending drumbeat of pressure.

Besides saving face, there are many other Asian cultural touchpoints that were contained within Bad Buddy that my fellow Asian BBS stans and I noted. They include:

1) intergenerational/inherited trauma, 2) the unique nature of secret-keeping in Asian cultures/societies, 3) enmeshed family boundaries, 4) setting up children to compete against each other for the sake of familial pride, 5) patriarchy, sexism, and the reversal of sexism among next generations, 6) the inset/assumed roles of family members based on patriarchy and elder respect, 7) Assumed community within and external to one's family, usually based on where you live and where you go to school, 8) How one's identity is defined based on patriarchy and individualist vs. collectivist cultures, 9) How various cultures within an Asian nation live peacefully (or not) together (for example, what makes Pat and Pran different by way of Pat's Thai-Chinese heritage vs. Pran's ethnic Thai heritage),

and many, many more.

It'll be impossible, even over two posts, to analyze all of these cultural touchpoints, but a few of them engendered quite a bit of conversation among the BBS mini-village that I want to highlight. In this post, I'll focus on the continuation of my first BBS thesis on intergenerational/inherited trauma, the nature of secret-keeping in Asian societies, and will return briefly to the touchpoint of saving face.

One of the most devastating scenes for me in Bad Buddy is in my favorite episode, episode 10, when Pat (after he's learned, throughout the episode, of the extent of the lies that his and Pran's family have shared with their children) confronts his father about his father's demands to literally control Pat's emotions, the way in which Pat related to other people -- specifically Pran. Pat sums up a lifetime's worth of control in one sentence.

@telomeke noted in our ongoing group conversation that this notion of inherited trauma vis à vis Ming is particularly present in Asian societies, not just by way of familial expectation that we, as Asians, embody it and "take it" throughout our generations, as Pat realized up above -- but that ALL family members present are responsible for playing their roles within the framework of the inherited trauma. @telomeke noted in particular that exactly what Pat was doing to hate Pran, FOR his father? That was what Ming HAD to do for MING'S dad, when Ming schemed to get the scholarship from Dissaya. AND, Pat's mother, in consoling Pat, had to play the role of explainer -- which, as we know now, Pat ran away from to meet his beloved Pran on the rooftop before running away to the eco-village.

Pat running away from that moment? That was a huge symbol of the breaking of the inherited trauma that was given unto him by his parents both.

(@telomeke has actually written about their theory about how the Jindapats and Siridechawats ended up living next door to each other -- which seems SO STRANGE on the surface, consider Ming's and Dissaya's boiling hatred for each other -- and the theory links nicely within the framework of inherited trauma. Tel theorizes that Ming's father or grandfather may have actually gifted the house to Dissaya's family as a means of apologizing for Ming's deceit. In which case: the presence of the Siridechawats is a reminder, on an everyday basis, of Ming's folly to steal from Dissaya, which may explain why Ming in particular went so hard on Pat to triumph daily over Pran.)

We as a group unwound quite a bit on the nature of secret-keeping in Asian cultures. We know Bad Buddy relies on this cultural touchpoint at the end of the series: Pran and Pat have a full-fledged and committed relationship as a transparent secret, under the noses of Pat's and Pran's parents.

Secret-keeping....oh, man. I could not have lived a fully authentic life in America if I didn't keep a million secrets from my family while I was living out my own independent choices. I actually, literally, could not have gotten married, because the rule of my household was that I wouldn't date. I would just... get engaged. So I'd get engaged through, what, magic? Match-making? No: I'd have to find my partner through my own battle of social and familial conventions, literally against my family, to get to where I wanted to be in life, which was (gasp) married.

@neuroticbookworm illuminated more on this particularly from our shared Indian lens. She wrote,

Keeping your relationship secret from parents is sooooo ridiculously common in India (and I'm sure we can extrapolate to other Asian countries like Thailand). And the justification the children give themselves is always rooted in how they have a "duty" towards their parents, and that they will reveal their relationship after they have fulfilled their duties.

God, I LOVED that NBW brought up "duty" in this conversation. Because! Assumed within the coded language from Asian parents to children, and vice versa, is a sense that children MUST follow the dictates of their parents. 100%, full-stop.

The duties that NBW clarified in this particular conversation specified life demarcations such as "[w]hen I graduate, I'll tell my parents about my partner," and "[w]hen I graduate and get a job and can financially support myself in life, I'll tell my parents about my partner."

What's coded in these statements is a fear that the children will have to reveal to their parents that they were disobedient in the rules their parents set, that no dating shall occur until the time at which the parents rule it's okay. And at least within Indian frameworks, that period of it being "okay" is, more often than not, the period in which arranged matches are examined. Because, yes, that's still the rule in the high majority of Indian culture.

The revelation of that disobedience? That's bad-news bears. It indicates... everything: a lack of loyalty to the family; a lack of understanding the meaning of a child's role to listen to the parents as the parents are elders and therefore are the moral authority of the household; a lack of self-control (which is a huge deal -- that relates to saving face on behalf of the family); a lack of understanding the morals and ethics of saving oneself, in love and sex, before marriage, etc. Even if a family seems fully progressive on the outside, as an Asian, I'm conditioned to question that progressiveness -- as parents may hold different standards of acceptance for their children vs. other young people.

@telomeke expanded on disobedience for us -- connecting it back to the very important notion of "saving face."

I think there's something quite related to secret-keeping, but it's also to do with the ability of Asians, but also human beings in general, of being able to live with duality in life... and secret-keeping is part of it. This also ties in to the East and Southeast Asian preoccupation with the concept of "saving face" [as noted above]. A lot of families are able to live with the knowledge of dirty secrets, unsavory truths, as long as it's not brought into the light and confronted. I'm constantly reminded of this whenever I rewatch BBS Ep. 12 because it's clear both Ming and Dissaya KNOW their sons are in a relationship but it's not overtly admitted. In that way they (and more Ming I suppose) get to "save face" and not have to deal with the truth that their sons are being disobedient, consorting with the enemy, and because it's not in the open -- there is no dishonor brought to the family and to the elders.

God, I love the way Tel put this. That disobedience on the part of Pran and Pat would actually bring dishonor to their families -- because their families have put SO MUCH EFFORT into building their public AND private enmity their entire lives! It affected Chai's relationship with the families as an employee of both families. EVERYONE AT PAT'S AND PRAN'S SCHOOLS knew the guys were the "legendary rivals." And, of course, by being in rival faculties at the same university, the boys could continue this public enmity as well -- keeping up with the roles that were literally assigned to them by their parents.

If the boys disobeyed, they would bring dishonor to their families. Think about that -- and connect that with the heaviness that Pran walked away with after the rooftop kiss in episode 5, AND the weight of Pran's breakdown at the end of episode 10, when Pat assured him that they would run away together.

No matter what a Western viewer (and maybe even Asian viewers, wanting to see a dismantling of these paradigms) would want Pat and Pran to have by way of full openness of their relationships with everyone in their lives (because, in individualistic cultures, that self-driven openness is a given), Pran and Pat themselves knew that that couldn't be their reality vis à vis the social worlds they belonged to. So they kept their relationship a secret, in the end.

The secret that Pran and Pat keep about their relationship is strategic. It's certainly also a stress point: an older Pat asks an older Pran, at the end of episode 12, if he'll ever be able to walk through the front door of the Siridechawat house.

But this is the compromise -- within the larger-scale culture of secret-keeping in Asian societies, AND the private frameworks of the enmity that Dissaya and Ming established between themselves and their families years and years prior -- that will work best for Pat and Pran to preserve the sanctity of their relationship, which I talked about in part 2 of this meta series.

Pran and Pat do not have to publicly appear disobedient to the demands and pressures of their families. They do not have to make their families engage with each other. They do not have to make their families confront the mistakes that their parents made earlier in their lives. They can protect their families from their private and public follies. They can help their families keep and save face. And by doing all that? They can prevent their relationship from being threatened.

I feel this very deeply in my heart as an Asian-American. For the sake of my American spouse, I wanted to protect him from a lot of these pressures, and so I insisted on keeping a lot of our relationship secret from my folks. If I demanded full-blown, public acceptance from my parents? If I brought my "boyfriend" to parties, and introduced him as such with aunties and uncles -- especially if it wasn't indicated that we'd be permanent one day? Damn. No. I'd be embarrassing my folks, with the aunties and uncles saying to my folks, "dang, you can't control your daughter, huh? You let her do what she wants." That would mean my parents would lose face over their ability to control the lives of their children, and that's no bueno in our cultural terms. It would be on ME, as THEIR child, to uphold THEIR ability to save face, as much as its their own work.

Dissaya refers DIRECTLY to Pran doing this FOR HER when, in episode 10, she asks him, "did you forget to save my reputation?" It's brutal, daily work. And Pran goes BACK to keeping secrets in the end, because it would have been impossible, ultimately, for Dissaya to save face, AND for Pran to save Dissaya's reputation/face, if Pran were out with his relationship with Pat, thus proving his disobedience. It would be -- JUST -- better to keep the secret for all those involved.

As this post has gotten long, I'm going to continue talking more about these touchpoints in a second post. I'm driven to talk about this because I think much of the Western fandom might miss what us Asians are reading into shows like Bad Buddy through this coded language and engagement. I very much posit that Bad Buddy -- while it is first and foremost a queer show, made by queer Asians, about queer young men -- is so relatable to so many of us because we've faced similar struggles of survival, and we've faced threats to the sanctity of the love we have for other people by way of needed to fit into the roles set before us by previous generations.

So! With that, thank you for reading, and see you tomorrow, when I focus on competition, enmeshed family boundaries, patriarchy and sexism in Bad Buddy, and more if I can fit it in!

(Tagging @dribs-and-drabbles, @solitaryandwandering, and @wen-kexing-apologist by request! If you'd like to be tagged, please let me know!)

[Alright! Stay tuned for more, many more ruminations from the BBS Asian station tomorrow!

Here's the status of the Old GMMTV Challenge watchlist. Tumblr's web editor loves to jack with this list, so mosey on over to this link for the very latest version!

1) The Love of Siam (2007) (movie) (review here) 2) My Bromance (2014) (movie) (review here) 3) Love Sick and Love Sick 2 (2014 and 2015) (review here) 4) Gay OK Bangkok Season 1 (2016) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 5) Make It Right (2016) (review here) 6) SOTUS (2016-2017) (review here) 7) Gay OK Bangkok Season 2 (2017) (a non-BL queer series directed by Jojo Tichakorn and written by Aof Noppharnach) (review here) 8) Make It Right 2 (2017) (review here) 9) Together With Me (2017) (review here) 10) SOTUS S/Our Skyy x SOTUS (2017-2018) (review here) 11) Love By Chance (2018) (review here) 12) Kiss Me Again: PeteKao cuts (2018) (no review) 13) He’s Coming To Me (2019) (review here) 14) Dark Blue Kiss (2019) and Our Skyy x Kiss Me Again (2018) (review here) 15) TharnType (2019-2020) (review here) 16) Senior Secret Love: Puppy Honey (OffGun BL cuts) (2016 and 2017) (no review) 17) Theory of Love (2019) (review here) 18) 3 Will Be Free (2019) (a non-BL and an important harbinger of things to come in 2019 and beyond re: Jojo Tichakorn pushing queer content in non-BLs) (review here) 19) Dew the Movie (2019) (review here) 20) Until We Meet Again (2019-2020) (review here) (and notes on my UWMA rewatch here) 21) 2gether (2020) and Still 2gether (2020) (review here) 22) I Told Sunset About You (2020) (review here) 23) YYY (2020, out of chronological order) (review here) 24) Manner of Death (2020-2021) (not a true BL, but a MaxTul queer/gay romance set within a genre-based show that likely influenced Not Me and KinnPorsche) (review here) 25) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) (review here) 26) A Tale of Thousand Stars (2021) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For The Sake Of Rewatching Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (re-review here) 27) Lovely Writer (2021) (review here) 28) Last Twilight in Phuket (2021) (the mini-special before IPYTM) (review here) 29) I Promised You the Moon (2021) (review here) 30) Not Me (2021-2022) (review here) 31) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) (thesis here) 32) 55:15 Never Too Late (2021-2022) (not a BL, but a GMMTV drama that features a macro BL storyline about shipper culture and the BL industry) (review here) 33) Bad Buddy (2021-2022) and Our Skyy 2 x BBS x ATOTS (2023) OGMMTVC Rewatch (The BBS OGMMTVC Meta Series is ongoing: preamble here, part 1 here, part 2 here, more reviews to come) 34) Secret Crush On You (2022) (on pause for La Pluie) 35) KinnPorsche (2022) (tag here) 36) KinnPorsche (2022) OGMMTVC Fastest Rewatch Known To Humankind For the Sake of Re-Analyzing the KP Cultural Zeitgeist 37) The Eclipse (2022) (tag here) 38) GAP (2022-2023) (Thailand’s first GL) 39) My School President (2022-2023) and Our Skyy 2 x My School President (2023) 40) Moonlight Chicken (2023) (tag here) 41) Bed Friend (2023) (tag here) 42) Be My Favorite (2023) (tag here) 43) Wedding Plan (2023) 44) Only Friends (2023) (tag here)]

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bengiyo · 9 months

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So I’ve got some thoughts wracking around my brain and I’d love to hear your thoughts. Apologies ahead of time because this is long.

Some background: I’ve been watching BL for about 2 years, consuming content from BL fandom on Tumblr for about a year, and listened to you & Nini’s pod since it came out. So I know a big trend and exciting push is workplace BL and more adult BL characters and relationships. I think it’s really interesting that so many in the fandom favor this trend because I struggle with the presence of the typical BL tropes in stories with queer adults because I see many of the tropes as inherently childish I guess? I mean I think as we all watch BL we have to hold a suspension of disbelief watching two adolescent or fully grown men live out these silly tropes (e.g white towel bath, tripping and falling, etc. (we all know’em by now)). I think that’s why I typically lean toward high school and even college settings because it’s easier to imagine characters in that age range engaging with these types of tropes.

I think the same goes for certain genres too. For example: I had a hard time enjoying KinnPorsche because tonally it was hard to reconcile one scene of rampant violence/death and the next scene Kinn & Porsche walking in the park engaging in all the silly tropes. The romance orientation of BL (to me) does not mix well with Mafia or horror genres because the presence of these tropes create such a weird tonal shift throughout the narrative.

I think I primarily have this trouble with Thai BLs (maybe also Taiwan they just don’t produce nearly as many shows so less to compare) because 1) the specific campy thai style of acting and 2) the fact that Thai BLs pack so many of the same tropes in their shows.

Now all that being said: I’m loving Law of Attraction and I’ve been thinking a lot about why it works for me. So far I don’t think there have been nearly as many tropes as some shows but I also think the melodrama of it all helps too. I mean both Charn and Tinn are very archetypal and Charn is almost a caricature of the archetype. It’s ridiculous and highly entertaining and still works as a BL for me.

Ok all that being said (I’m sorry this is so long) specifically with workplace/adult Thai BL: I see it going one of two main ways to continue to work (for me at least) while they also try to explore different settings, genres, and stories. Either 1) LoA route where it’s very dramatic and the characters are more caricatures and it’s not to be taken too seriously (but it’s still fun and entertaining and has some good themes) or 2) they phase out a lot of the tropes and depict more realistic queer characters in adult relationships. If they go route #2 wouldn’t that just lead to inherently more queer shows? From what I understand many define BL by the inclusion of these tropes and centering the romance in the narrative but I just can’t see how these aspects can continue to exist in more adult oriented stories? Do you think new tropes will emerge in these “office BLs” that will make it continue to “feel” BL without it feeling queer? Don’t get me wrong I’m queer and I love that it seems to be going in that direction but I’m also interested in the history/origins of the Thai BL industry and how they will likely try to continue to please their original base (cis het women) with more mature stories and settings without losing the essence of BL and moving more toward queer shows. Would love to hear any and all your thoughts. I’m thinking so much more about these topics hearing you and Nini on the pod so thank you for fostering these conversations!!

There's a lot going on here, so I'm going to try to pull out some specific things to interrogate.

I know a big trend and exciting push is workplace BL and more adult BL characters and relationships. I think it’s really interesting that so many in the fandom favor this trend because I struggle with the presence of the typical BL tropes in stories with queer adults because I see many of the tropes as inherently childish I guess? I mean I think as we all watch BL we have to hold a suspension of disbelief watching two adolescent or fully grown men live out these silly tropes (e.g white towel bath, tripping and falling, etc. (we all know’em by now)). I think that’s why I typically lean toward high school and even college settings because it’s easier to imagine characters in that age range engaging with these types of tropes.

I'm entering my mid-30s. I'm a bit burnt out on the high school and college stuff. I also work in an office tower as part of a large bureacracy. You'd be surprised how much petty office drama looks like the same shit you dealt with in schools. I also like the notion that even adults can enjoy some of the silly first moments. I dont' like the idea that either we settle down with the first boy we met in high school or college or we just don't exist.

Also, there are lots of tropes entering BL from the genre-blending that I think some viewers just don't recognize. Part of why Korean BL is so important is because quite a few viewers are versed in the narrative structures and story beats of a typical kdrama, and their commentary has been interesting as we get more Korean offerings. I often find that people miss out on the cues in Japanese shows because they didn't grow up on Japanese media like I did.

For example, I was commenting to NiNi last night when we were recording for Tokyo in April is... that one of the things I like so much about second chance romance in BL is the different built-in presumptions compared to straight people. When straight people have a second chance, it's usually because one of them broke up with the other. The relationship ended because of their internal problems. In gay second chance, the relationship was often taken from them by homophobia. In Our Dating Sim, internalized homophobia made Wan run away. Same in Individual Circumstances or The Promise. In Tokyo in April is... the boys are separated by their parents. Their relationship ended against their own wills, so the reunion and second chance is different because of their queer context.

Re: KinnPorsche: The romance orientation of BL (to me) does not mix well with Mafia or horror genres because the presence of these tropes create such a weird tonal shift throughout the narrative.

I don't know. History3: Trapped exists. Tropes are storytelling tools built upon familiar beats that audiences recognize. The pinky touch doesn't belong to BL. It grew out of queer media as a way for boys to privately have a moment of intimacy. Tropes are not inherently good or bad. What matters is how they're used. Do they support the narrative and themes, or do they get in the way?

A lot of folks do not like the Blushing Maiden trope. I am variable. It matters how it's used. I think it makes sense for Pharm in Until We Meet Again. I think it makes some sense for Minato in Minato's Laundromat. I don't really like it in Heartstopper 2. Elle gets a Heel Pop in Heartstopper 2, and it's what she deserves!

As for a mafia story, putting a romance story in a crime drama often is used to ramp up the sense of tragedy because the romance can't succeed inside the rules of the crime world.

specifically with workplace/adult Thai BL: I see it going one of two main ways to continue to work (for me at least) while they also try to explore different settings, genres, and stories. Either 1) LoA route where it’s very dramatic and the characters are more caricatures and it’s not to be taken too seriously (but it’s still fun and entertaining and has some good themes) or 2) they phase out a lot of the tropes and depict more realistic queer characters in adult relationships.

I don't like binaries like this. If you had asked me at 15 when I started watching Degrassi and then sneaking around to watch other gay shit if we'd have what we call BL now, I would not have believed you.

As for Laws of Attraction, I don't know that calling the characters caricatures is accurate either. They're behaving under the surreal rules of a lakorn, a telenovela, or a soap opera. There are exaggerations in the characters, but they all make sense and are obeying the rules of their world.

As for the question about BL getting more gay, @absolutebl has covered this already. Audiences do not care about gay people. Some of the conventions of surreal BL or the bubble are why they signed up. People did not watch POSE, they do not watch stuff like For the Boys, I haven't seen anyone on Tumblr talk about Sort Of, we didn't get an explosion of new gay shit after Moonlight or Call Me By Your Name. All I wanna say is that they don't really care about us.

I think there is room for BL to genre blend and play with broader romance or dramatic themes, à la La Pluie or Moonlight Chicken. However, I'll remind you that folks don't always like that (see I Promised You The Moon).

I think the biggest thing to recognize is that, while BL does have some of its own tropes from origin yaoi or modern Thai BL, BL shares a lot of DNA with romance as a whole. Don't get lost in the sauce of the classification war. Watching BL to check off boxes about what's recognized or not as the primary goal feels like a distraction.

Besides, if you're enjoying Laws of Attraction, that show has done nothing new. It's literally just using familiar lakorn and romance beats. Humans have been telling stories for at least 20,000 years. It doesn't have to be new to be good. It just needs to be done well.

#Ben writes #answered #bl series #thai bl #japanese bl #korean bl #taiwanese bl #Filipino bl

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