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#i'm going to a concert and one of the band's songs is such an alan song to me. do you think they'll play the alan song for me... šŸ‘‰šŸ‘ˆ
jimmyspades Ā· 1 month
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a-s-levynn Ā· 2 months
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Okay this show was what i needed for a little boost. I'm shouting about the liveshow i've just been to, so nothing truly interesting.
Distant my newfound beloveds are appearently cannot disappoint. They are so happy to perform to a bunch of people who genuinly love them. And they just give everything.
@thejawsoffate The quality is indeed absolute shite. The sound i mean. Okay the short pigsqueel when 35 sec is left is glorious, it is too powerful to be messed up even by shitty phone audio. But yeah, i never recorded anything on a concert so i had no idea how it's going turn out. Well.. appearently terribly. But i tried. T_T None the less in spirit you were headbanging next to me TAT
Now Suicide Silence is a band i've been listening to for quite a few years but this was my first time seeing them live and hoooly shit these guys must be a hoot to be around. Seriously. The fun little shenanigans on stage. Both Mr Kenny and Mr Heylmun clearly had a few bears before stepping on stage and they absolutely had a ball all night. The moment they flopped on their backs on stage making "snowangels" was definitely a moment. AND HOLY FUCK THOSE DRUMS. But also holy shit Mr Hermida.. i have no idea what goblins he eats for breakfast but what he does live is awesome. They truly do not disappoint live.
Oh also they brought out Mr Distant, Alan Grnja himself for their last song! TmT It was a glorious moment.
sidenote: as a concert goer the venue was great especially for a small one but like.. they were aiming for 45% merch cut from the bands? wtf.. no shit both of them sold their shit out of their van after their shows.
I probably could shout more about this but i wanted to write this while my head is still absolutely full with the experience but i'm also super tired so g'night everyone. āœŒšŸ»
Man i love live music.
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damonjuicyscock Ā· 4 months
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Playlist-Chapter 11: Acquiesce (90s Noel Gallagher X Reader)
Pairing: 90s Noel Gallagher X Reader
Warnings: language, a bit violent (a cricket bat if you know what I mean) a few spelling mistakes, maybe.
Words: 1681 (it's a bit shorter than usual, on purpose ;))
Summary: Oasis are in Rockfield Studios to record their second album. It goes well until Liam fucks up...
A/N: Heya Y'all ! Here's chapter 11 ! I hope you will like it. I chose Acquiesce as the song of the chapter to make it a bit ironic, knowing what happens in the chapter. I won't be publishing next weekend, I won't be at home. I'm going to spend Christmas with some members of my family, and I intend so enjoy this time with them.
Love y'all, have a BEAUTIFUL and SPECIAL Christmas and take care of yourselves !
Enjoy !
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ā€œBecause we need each other We believe in one another And I know we're going to uncover What's sleepin' in our soul Because we need each other We believe in one another I know we're going to uncover What's sleepin' in our soul What's sleepin' in our soulĀ».
In January 1995, Oasis fired Tony. The man was often fucking up during gigs, so they chose another drummer. Thatā€™s where Alan White, or Whitey as we all call him, made its appearance. And even if I was sad for Tony who had become a friend, Whitey was far better than him.
And he would be a great help for the new album. Because everyone, except him and I, was on cocaine or drunk most of the time, and he was really a great drummer.
May 14th 1995-Rockfield Studios:
Here we were in May 1995, in one of the studios that had welcomed good rock bands. Oasis were becoming iconic.
For what would become (Whatā€™s the story) Morning Glory?, Noel was constantly composing and writing lyrics until very late. Oasis were recording a song per day. Sometimes, I had to stop Noel for him to rest.
Though we also had good moments, like when we were playing football, when we watched the Blackburn vs Liverpool match, where everyone went crazy, like Liam who was playing with the extinguisher. It was our way of cheering, to have a laugh. Weird, but fun. After the match, Liam went to the pub. It was on May 14th 1995. I perfectly remember it, because this same night, Liam fucked up.
Noel and I were in studio. As per usual, he was writing a song, while I was smoking a joint, drinking a cup of tea and listening to music through the radio. At a moment, the radio broadcast Blur songs with the famous game ā€œWhoever calls first wins tickets for a forthcoming concert.
I hated Girls and boys, Parklife wasnā€™t bad, but I liked To the end. I imagined myself dancing a slow with Noel. I unconsciously started to hum the melody, and I didnā€™t feel Noelā€™s gaze on me until the second chorus of the song and took my headphones off my ears.
What? I asked
Yeā€™re humming, I canā€™t concentrate. Even more when itā€™s a fucking Blur song. He answered
Oh soz. Huhā€¦ Donā€™t think Iā€™m a Blur fan. I just like this one.
Yeā€™ve got the right to like what ye like. But Iā€™ll start worrying when Iā€™ll hear ye sing Girls and boys.
If it ever happens, kill me please. I said, laughing
Count on me. He chuckled
Whatā€™s the songā€™s name now? I said, indicating his guitar with my head
Champagne Supernova.
Iā€™m all ears.
Noel smiled and played what he already had written.
I donā€™t know what you mean by ā€œslowly walking down the hall, faster than a cannonballā€ but I love it.
I donā€™t know what the fuck it means either, but I think it sounds great.
He put his guitar aside, holding out his arms to me. I put my headphones down, and I approached him and sat on his lap. He wrapped his arms around me before kissing me.
Iā€™m proud of you, you know that? I said
Oh yea? I work hard, me.
Yeah. And I also think you work too much. You better let me take care of you on your birthday.
Iā€™ll let ye do whatever ye want. He answered
And I could even start nowā€¦ I said, seductively, putting my hand on his crotch
Oh, do it thenā€¦
But we didnā€™t have the time to even start, because Liam was back from the pub and I heard multiple voices, meaning it wasnā€™t alone.
He entered the room, followed by a man and two girls.
And hereā€™s our kid, the chief and genius of this band.
What the fuck Liam?! Noel said
Uh-ohā€¦ I said
I stood up, so did Noel. They started arguing. Noel was furious. Liam wasnā€™t supposed to bring anyone here. So I approached his guests.
Guys, the partyā€™s over, letā€™s go out.
They nodded and followed me outside.
Iā€™m soz guys. Itā€™s just that Liam isnā€™t supposed to bring anyone here. Itā€™s Oasisā€™s workplace, and the band prefers to keep things private. But donā€™t worry, youā€™ll soon have an album to listen to, they work hard for this.
Thank you. Weā€™re sorry, we didnā€™t knowā€¦ Liam invited us to come, so we followed. The man said
You couldnā€™t have known. But hereā€™s a thing for you, if ever cross Liamā€™s path again and heā€™s drunk. Donā€™t follow him. Heā€™s a nice and cool lad but tends to do some bullshit when he downed a few pints. And at least, youā€™ll avoid Noelā€™s anger. Heā€™s not angry at you, he loves his fans, but he needs privacy when making an album.
We understand. Thank you for telling us kindly. One of the girls answered
Thatā€™s perfectly normal.
They left, and I started walking back to the studio. As I was about to walk past the window, it shattered in front of me, the extinguisher flying through it and landing at my feet, making me scream in surprise.
Me guitar ye fucking knob! Noel shouted
Uh-ohā€¦ I said again, this time to myself
I ran back into the studio, trying to make my way through the mess and all the broken stuff, finding the brothers punching each other.
Hey, stop this! I shouted
They didnā€™t, and Noel grabbed what was close to him: a cricket bat. And just like that, he hit Liam over the head with it. Liam was stunned, and he fainted.
Noel! I yelled
Heā€™s finally off me arse. Come on, letā€™s go!
Whitey who heard noises entered the room.
What the fuck happened here? He asked
Iā€™ll tell ye, grab the car keys, weā€™re leaving. Noel said
No weā€™re not! We have to take Liam to the hospital! I answered, panicked, in front of Liamā€™s unanimated body
Heā€™ll get over it. Come on before he wakes up, are ye cominā€™ or not? Noel said
No! Noel, weā€¦ we canā€™t go and leave him like this! You might have hurt him real bad!
I started giving gentle slaps on Liamā€™s cheek.
Did you hear mā€¦ I started
But Noel had left at the moment he heard my no. I heard the car engine start. Liam regained consciousness, and as if he was a fucking cyborg, he got up, and did like his brother. He jumped out the broken window, grabbed a dust bin and threw it at the car that was now leaving.
Ye fuckinā€™ coward! He yelled
I joined him outside.
Damn right, heā€™s one. I answered
Liam yelled like a 4-year-old in surprise when he saw me, causing me to yell with him as well.
Fer fuckā€™s sake, ye scared the shit out of me Y/N, I thought ye left with him.
I was next to you, you dumbass! Didnā€™t you see me when you woke up in Robocop mode?
No I fucking didnā€™t. And Iā€™m no fucking Robocop, itā€™s just adrenaline!
I can believe that! You leapt to your feet and literally sprinted towards the car without a care in the world.
Soz Y/N.
Itā€™s okay. Are you well? I asked, worried for him
Me head hurts.
Come on, letā€™s put some ice on this head.
*
Here. Put this on your head. I said, handing him a tea towel full of ice cubes
Thank ye. He answered, taking it and putting it on his head
Itā€™s bad enough you donā€™t have a lot of brain cells, and that cricket bat probably didnā€™t do you any good.
Ha-ha, very funny Y/N.
To be serious, what has fucking got into you Liā€™? You knew it would make him furious. Why did you do that?
I wanted to have fun with me fans, me. Iā€™m a man of the people.
I can understand that but bringing them to the studio clearly wasnā€™t the best idea.
I know.
You should slow down on pints and cocaine Liā€™. It doesnā€™t help you. Youā€™re often fucking up because of that. And Iā€™m only telling you because youā€™re like my little brother. And because Noel clearly isnā€™t the one whoā€™s going to tell you this.
Ye might be right. Thank ye fer caring Y/N.
Itā€™s okay. Now how about I roll us a joint, we smoke it, and we clean up this mess?
Good idea.
And tomorrow, our kid will hear me. Donā€™t worry about it.
*
May 15th 1995:
I was having breakfast when I heard a car come closer. I put my cinnamon roll on the table, swallowed what was left of it in my mouth and went outside. Noel and Whitey were back. And the worst thing in all that, is that they acted as if nothing happened. I crossed my arms together and waited for Noel to approach me.
Heya love! He said, coming to kiss me
I slapped him.
You fucking idiot! I yelled at him
OUCH! He answered, his hand on his cheek
Your little brother could have died! What were you thinking?! Happily itā€™s nothing serious, itā€™ll only feel like a hangover, but it could have been! Did you think about that Noel?!
Listen, Iā€™m soz okay ? But he broke me guitar and he pissed me off!
And so? Is that a reason to smash a cricket bat on his head and leave like a fucking thief?
Huhā€¦ noā€¦
Youā€™re smarter than that Noel, come on! Donā€™t you ever do something like that ever again, understood? I softened
Yeah, I learned me lesson.
You better.
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/climbs out of your drain/
https://youtu.be/rI8hS6IystA
-this one iā€™m here for the lighting, omg, they did so well
also i so want to like have a romantic evening with slow dancing and kisses to that song
however iā€™m romance repulsed and would probably end up throwing up mid way through
and lastly half the band is giving himbo vibes, the other half would split a bill at a fancy restaurant date vibes
https://youtu.be/WM6l7twOfso
-alright if you have not heard this song before, a severe crime has been committed
i love chicago theyā€™re literally just hippies dressed up nice
my grandparents went to see them WITHOUT ME, very offended
https://youtu.be/WANNqr-vcx0
-itā€™s white rabbit what more must be said
https://youtu.be/mv7tMnwdT8c
-HEARTTTTTTTTYT OF MINEEEEEEEEEEE
i saw Boz Scaggs live with my grandparents and he sang this
ohhhhhhh mannnnnnnnn, second best concert iā€™ve ever been too
some lady got so drunk she had to be escorted out, i was also the youngest person there
https://youtu.be/HIWY8UyW9bw
-youā€™ve definitely heated joe cockerā€™s version of this and if you havenā€™t
i really need crimes to stop being committed go watch it
i think this video is like disturbingly funny
and itā€™s definitely a mental illness is attracted to mental illness for me i have no idea who the dude is singing but he looks like he would lock me in a basement and feed me crackers then let me go as a date night idea
https://youtu.be/7YvAYIJSSZY
-hahaha i have PPD this song has and always will speak to me
https://youtu.be/qOwFVowEugQ
-i just enjoy the vid really, not much to say about it
alright now if youā€™ll excuse me
/gets sucked up in your vacuum/
the association!! i only know one song from them, the EVERYONE KNOOOOWS IT'S WIINDYYYYYYYYY one. but omg this one sounds so nice and soothing, i love it. also i love their smiles in the video. also i love at around 2:40-2:50 somewhere between there i think, the one with the tambourine, the way he's moving. i am laughing.
2. omg the chicago video, the one that introduced the song. the look on his face and the smile is so adorable!! this makes me want to gif this video now. omg i love everything. the DRUMS. chicago is a band i've always heard about, i remember my dad talking about them a lot, but was never really introduced to their music. i probably know some songs from the radio but didn't know it was them.
3. the jefferson airplane one, i thought this was just a really pointy elbow:
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until i realized it was because of the effects. also i love the clothes omg. and the VOICE
4. awww heart of mine is such a pretty song, he has a beautiful voice.
5. AAA THE BOX TOPS, i have that version of that song in a playlist. i think i watched the video once but forgot about it. and i love your description of that guy. but awww his smile! according to the youtube comments, he was very young and i would never have guessed that by the sound of his voice.
omg this guy's face:
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also i love the way the drummer is drumming. i don't know why i'm laughing about it.
listening to the joe cocker version now to see if i've heard it annnnd i don't think i have?? i apologize for my crimes, i'm trying very hard to fix them a little at a time. i love it omg
6. ROCKWELL, i'm very familiar with that song and video. it gets stuck in my head sometimes just out of literally nowhere. i love the dog.
7. oh wow, interesting alan parsons project video.
I'M LAUGHING, this part:
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rips the flowers up and throws them on the ground like a bored cat knocking things off a table
and then this face in response:
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help i'm laughing so much, why.
he looks so done with everything
thank you so much for these, this made my entire morning.
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hotfuss Ā· 1 year
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Dany!!ā¤ļø 1, 16, 25, 37, 47, 48
hi fiii!
1 - Are you an albums person or a singles person?
definitively more of a singles person. before tk came i never felt the urge to check someone's entire discography. at best i would get to know an album or two. artists would get their own personal folder on my pc if i liked at least 3 songs of theirs bc that was a lot for me šŸ˜‚ i'd say i got better with time
16 - A song or album from the 70s:
light my fire by the doors
25 - Is there a song you used to like but canā€™t listen to anymore because you associate it with someone you donā€™t like?
mmm the closer i can get is not being able to listen to the way it was anymore (and eventually the whole album for a full year) after my ex broke with me bc some lyrics hit a bit too close and made the song too painful. but i can listen to it fine now!
37 - If you could travel in time and go to a concert of an artist whoā€™s no longer alive or a band thatā€™s no longer together, who would you choose?
i'm completely blanking out on this lol. but i truly regret not going to see brandon for his only italian date for the desired effect tour, god knows he could have cured me from the deep depression i had that year lol but i was too chicken to go to milan alone back then. also depeche mode playing in my city but i was studying for my graduation exams so i decided it was better if i didn't go (in the end i did fuck all till the last minute, twice, both for the written and oral ones and my friend went without telling me, i'm still so incredibly bitter about that)
47 - Is there an artist you used to dislike but learned to like because of a friendā€™s influence?
i don't think so, but i caught the mcr worms bc of two mutuals posting about the current tour, does that count?
48 - Whoā€™s an artist you think itā€™s criminally underrated and deserves more recognition?
lame answer but tk... as popular as they are i don't understand how they aren't so popular they fill stadiums on the regular and have their tickets go sold out in less than 2 hours... like better for us for sure but why aren't them the most popular rock band out there? but this is probably just me being up their ass since 2008 lol. also alan wilder's solo project recoil. weird music but it's so good
the ultimate music asks
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flowerboycaleb Ā· 3 months
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wanted to post more over here and had the idea to do lil reviews for albums from years past. i'm gonna try to post a review for this series, as the name suggests, every thursday!! to kick things off we're taking a look at one of the greatest live albums of all time, LCD Soundsystem's The Long Goodbye! also feel free to follow me on rate your music and twitter <3
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The Long Goodbye: LCD Soundsystem Live at Madison Square Garden - LCD Soundsystem
ā—‡ release year: 2014 (recorded 2011) ā—‡ genres: dance-punk, indietronica, alternative dance
With LCD Soundsystem going on tour in a few months and a new album reportedly in the works, listening to The Long Goodbye in 2024 can be a bit awkward. This show in New York's Madison Square Garden was billed as their last. A year prior, the band had released This is Happening, an album that received rapturous acclaim from critics and one that frontman James Murphy prefaced by saying it would "be the last one." It seemed that after multiple critically acclaimed records, Murphy was beginning to lose interest in the project and decided to stop while they were ahead. Of course, it's never over until it's over, but The Long Goodbye acts as a damn good send-off.
You can experience this show in two forms. One being the concert film and the other being the live album released for Record Store Day in 2014. For the sake of this review, I'll mainly focus on the live album.
Across the over three-hour runtime, Murphy and crew provide a more than comprehensive look into the band's relatively short, but extremely fruitful discography. Very few stones are left unturned. The band rips through cuts from their debut, Sound of Silver, This is Happening, and even a detour into Murphy's 45:33 piece which he created for Nike. This can make it a little daunting for newcomers to their work, but I seriously doubt anyone would start that journey with The Long Goodbye.
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The band opened the show with three incredible renditions of tracks from their then-most recent album. "Dance Yrself Clean" was the perfect way to start with the slow build into the explosive climaxes of the song. That moment when "part two" of the track kicks in and you hear the crowd just explode is one of the most magical moments ever put to record. It's insane how well these tracks work in a live setting too. Everything feels grander, everything has a bit more bite. The beat on "I Can Change" just feels so much bigger here than in the studio. Made even grander because you can feel the energy of the crowd at every moment. They're hooked onto every moment, they know they're experiencing something special.
From there, the band goes through material from their first two records. I love this little stretch of the show, they're locking in, especially on these versions of "Get Innocuous!" and "All My Friends." The ending of the latter acts as a perfect "end credits" kind of moment until you realize there's still so much more to go. Next, the band dives into the 45:33 portion of the show. They sound like they're having so much fun here, especially when they dive into the groovy "You Can't Hide / Shame on You" which leads directly into the title track from Sound of Silver. Just a great moment and so, so much fun. The off-kilter jam that is "Freak Out / Starry Eyes" closes this portion and the band continues to not miss a step. Jumping right into "Us v Them" which features an incredible bassline. The band starts bringing out some guests here, namely Arcade Fire who make an appearance on "North American Scum." Murphy would go on to produce some tracks for their album Reflektor a few years after. Their cover of Alan Vega's "Bye Bye Bayou" might be the closest the show gets to a "lull", but it's still a fun time.
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Until the end, it's pretty much all killer, no filler. They enter a groove from "You Wanted a Hit" onward. I'm probably also biased because this section features some of my all-time favorites. The previously mentioned "You Wanted a Hit", "Tribulations", "Someone Great", and "Home" just to name a few. I adore these songs and the versions of them from this show might be definitive for me. Especially "Tribulations" which never fails to make me dance around a little bit. "Someone Great" sounds a bit different from its studio counterpart. It's a bit darker sounding and I think it works very well. I think it might be Murphy's best moment as a lyricist. The home stretch begins with "Home" as Murphy begins the song by thanking the audience "for supporting this weird thing." A very heartfelt moment delivered before one of the bookends of This is Happening. That callback to the "ah ahhhhh ah ahhh's" of "Dance Yrself Clean" gives me chills on both the studio and live versions of this track. From there, we go into "All I Want" which is another one of my favorites. The sweeping synths come alive in this version. The penultimate track here is a cover of Harry Nilsson's "Jump Into the Fire." A very inconsequential number, but you can tell the band is having a good time. Before leading into the final track, the band plays a version of the Twin Peaks theme while Murphy thanks everyone in the crowd. A really sweet moment.
The show ends with an unbelievably great version of "New York, I Love You but You're Bringing Me Down." There is so much love packed into this version with Murphy bantering with the audience about how "this is his last long pause" in the song, showing that he almost doesn't want it to end. When the drums kick in alongside the piano things really get going. So many moments in this song give me chills. The closest thing I can relate those moments to is the beginning of "I Loves You, Porgy" from Nina Simone's live album In Concert. Even when you're not there in Madison Square Garden, or Carnegie Hall in Nina's case, you can feel everything. Just an indescribable feeling. It's the perfect way to close out this show and, at the time, the story of LCD Soundsystem. The Long Goodbye is one of the most comprehensive live albums/concerts ever. It covers pretty much every aspect of the band's catalog at the time and the band rarely ever gets lost in the process. Of course, the band would return years later, but that doesn't undercut how special The Long Goodbye is at all.
listen here: Apple Music Spotify Bandcamp (not available) SoundCloud YouTube watch here: LCD Soundsystem. Live at Madison Square Garden, 2011. Part 1
LCD Soundsystem. Live at Madison Square Garden, 2011. Part 2 ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā”ā” thanks for reading
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littlemissmanga Ā· 10 months
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if you get this answer with your top 5 music artists and send it to the last 7 people in your notifications <3
Hi Nour!
OK so I've got a weird, all over taste in music. Laugh if you must but here's what I've got ...
Mariana's Trench. This pop-punk band is the only one I've gone to see in concert and it was WORTH IT. Their songs were the soundtrack of my college years and they connect me to one of my besties.
The Band Perry. I just like the modern country sound.
P!nk. Badass lady with great jam-out songs.
Ed Sheeran. I like boys with pretty voices singing about pretty/bittersweet things.
I'm not a Swifty, but I do genuinely like a lot of Taylor Swift songs. Not as much the new ones but most of her stuff.
Alan Menkin. He's the composer responsible for a large amount of the Disney Renaissance songs, and some of the new ones, too. My personal favorite from him is Hunchback (that soundtrack SLAPS and it didn't need to go that hard) and Beauty and the Beast (I hear the first six notes of the title song and start crying).
So this isn't an artist per se but my favorite Broadway actor, Ramin Karimloo. If you haven't heard him sing, you're missing out. This tenor has the voice of an angel and is so technically skilled it's unbelievable. I was able to see him live in the 2014 Les Mis revival and I forced myself not to cry during "Bring Him Home" because it would have been an insult to mar the experience of hearing that perfect voice.
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brn1029 Ā· 2 years
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Time for your Rock Report
R.E.M. lead singer Michael Stipe recently released his debut solo single "Future If Future" on 12-inch climate-friendly bioplastic vinyl. "Future If Future" marks the first of its kind release to be made commercially available in the music industry. Produced by Brian Eno, the split single also features "Oh My Heart" by Beatie Wolfe.
Proceeds from the sale of the single will benefit Eno's environmental charity EarthPercent.
A limited edition of 500 copies has already been sold out via Bandcamp.
Nita Strauss recently released a new instrumental solo single, titled "Summer Storm," from her upcoming second solo album. Speaking about the new release, the former Alice Cooper guitarist said, "Instrumental music is where my heart is, and 'Summer Storm' might be the song I feel captures my personal style the most: cathartic, driving and emotional." "While a lot of the upcoming record will have guest vocalists, I'm also so proud of the instrumental tracks and excited to officially unleash this one on the world," she added.
"Summer Storm" is a follow-up to "Dead Inside," featuring guest vocals from Disturbed frontman David Draiman.
YES have announced details for the U.S. leg of their "The Album Series Tour 2022," celebrating the 50th anniversary of the rock band's iconic 1972 album, Close To The Edge. This marks the band's first trek in the U.S. since 2019 and will kick off with two shows at the Keswick Theatre in Glenside, Pennsylvania, on October 7 and 8. The U.S. leg will wrap in New York at the NYCB Theatre on November 19. Tickets will go on sale on September 2. The U.S. tour is dedicated to the late Alan White, the band's legendary drummer who died in May. Before the tour gets underway, a special tribute concert ā€” "Alan White: Celebrating His Life and Music" ā€” will be held on October 2 at the Paramount Theatre in Seattle.
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17 and 34šŸ’ž
17. if you could go back in time and attend any artist/bandā€™s concert that you were unable to attend, who would it be and when?
i'm so terribly terribly predictable and want to say, once again, jeff buckley. but will ALSO say: david bowie, queen, fleetwood mac, and also for some variety, the stone roses
34. pick one of your favorite bands/artists and choose a song by them that you associate with each season
have already done this but will do it again because i love this question, and this time with gregory alan isakov: summer - the stable song autumn - amsterdam winter - o' city lights spring - she always takes it black
questions from here
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