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noddytheornithopod · 2 years

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The two most non-controversial men: Steven Universe and Kylo Ren

(For this)

Wow, trying to get me cancelled much? :P

Steven

My favorite thing about them: Just a really positive role model for masculinity, being someone pretty nice and sweet and open about his feelings, and his failures are when he fails to live up to those things. It's good he's not perfect either.

My least favorite thing about them: IDK... I guess maybe he's a bit of a handful in the really early episodes? But even then, it kinda makes sense.

My favorite canon relationship: Relationship is very open ended and doesn't specify if it means romantic or in general, so I'll cover all bases. Ship wise, I ship him with Connie, they're just really sweet and compliment each other well while bringing out the best in each other. In terms of general character relationships, I think all of the main Crystal Gems have really great dynamics with him, they all have their nice features while still having specific nuances to them. I enjoy his dynamic with Peridot too, for similar reasons.

My favorite non-canon relationship: I mean, Steven being the viewpoint character has a dynamic with pretty much every character on-screen. :v So it's Rose Quartz by default, because she's the only major character I can think of he wouldn't have met. Would be interesting to see what a conversation between them would be like, even if neither can exist.

The sexuality I headcanon for them: Probably pan if you ask me.

What I’d do if I could spend the day with them: Make sure he's taking it easy and enjoying himself, I don't want him to have another SU Future incident. :P

Random fact about them I like: Nothing really comes to mind?

Kylo Ren/Ben Solo

My favorite thing about them: Hmm... I feel so indifferent this is actually really hard. Until I can think of a better answer, I'll just say Ben Swolo memes. :v Okay fine, for a more serious answer... I do think there's potential in the whole "kid of galactic heroes feels isolated" and parallels to IRL radicalisation into harmful ideologies thing.

My least favorite thing about them: the fact that people either love him so much he becomes all they care about, or that people hate him so much like they have a vendetta against him they think his mere presence ruins everything I kinda feel like he's kinda safe as a character, in a way? The most interesting thing he did was when he killed Snoke to become the big bad and go further into darkness, making any potential redemption harder, but then as we know, "somehow, Palpatine returned". In general, I just kinda get this sense he feels so manufactured to be "sympathetic evil but secretly not that evil deep down" guy. I find the internal conflicts and moral ambiguity of characters like Anakin, Maul and even freaking Dooku more interesting, personally. I feel like whenever I'm watching him I'm seeing an "I'M SO CONFLICTED" sign. I don't dislike the character or have anything against him like some people who seem to fume at his mere existence, but I feel like there's just more interesting dark side characters. It's not even that he's a failure at living up to the legacy of the dark side or anything, it's just again I feel like they played it too safe with him.

My favorite canon relationship: IDK, Rey? *sees pitchforks* Oh shut up, I'm not even a Reylo shipper, I'm completely indifferent to what people do and don't ship with the character. I purely mean this in terms of their dynamic and chemistry.

My favorite non-canon relationship: I like the idea of him being in his Darth Vader phase and then learning about what Anakin was like, maybe ghost Anakin can show up and tell him "lol I moved past all that".

The sexuality I headcanon for them: I barely care enough to even answer?

What I’d do if I could spend the day with them: Try not to piss him off in case he gets violent. :v

Random fact about them I like: The idea that he talks to Darth Vader helmet all the time but it's actually secretly Sidious amuses me to a degree.

#ask #meme #star wars #steven universe #kylo ren #ben solo

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sheikah · 4 years

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Have you seen Rise of Skywalker yet? Im looking forward to your opinions!

I did! Thanks for your interest haha. I just wanna quickly preface this by saying that I know that SW is very polarizing and that the fandom can be very toxic, people are passionate about their opinions, etc. I don’t want to step on any toes with my opinions. I don’t often post in depth or candidly about SW because I have friends from all parts of the fandom and I’d hate to hurt someone’s feelings. But these are my opinions! (Under a cut :D)

I loved the movie. At first I wasn’t sure, but I saw it a second time with a friend and I loved it. Does it have plot holes, inconsistencies, and issues? Absolutely. It does. It’s far from perfect and I absolutely understand why so many people have such intensely negative reactions to it.

But if I’m being 100% honest I just wasn’t one of those people. Yes, it was rushed. But that made it interesting from start to finish. I almost always step out to use the restroom during a movie in theaters. I think it’s a mental thing–I’m constantly thinking of how I DON’T want to step out to pee, so I always have to haha. But I didn’t even think about it once during this movie! I just had that much fun watching it.

I can acknowledge that it had a lot of weaknesses, though, and I’ll talk about that first. I think most of the issues were a result of the film being the end of a trilogy that was helmed by two different people. It felt confused to me at points because I could see where JJ was trying to stick to what he clearly wanted to explore post-TFA while also trying to pick up where Rian Johnson left off post-TLJ. It’s like they had different visions and JJ was trying to include aspects of both in TROS. In a lot of ways, that didn’t work. I don’t want to go into too many nitpicky details but I can sum up my one big gripe by saying I think Finn was done wrong.

I think this movie had a lot of big character moments for Rey, Ben, and Poe, but I don’t feel like Finn got his due. I also think that from a shipping standpoint he was treated really unfairly. I genuinely felt while watching TFA that JJ was trying to lay the groundwork for canon Finnrey. In TLJ, Johnson went in a different direction with Finnrose and Reylo. So the problem, to me, is that in TROS JJ tried to follow up with Johnson’s Reylo groundwork while still including nuggets of Finnrey. Watching the film, it seems abundantly clear to me that Finn was harboring feelings for Rey that were unrequited. His devotion to her felt one-sided and the almost-love-confession in the sinking sand seemed to confirm that for me. I realize at some fan panel JJ apparently said that what Finn was really going to confess was that he was Force-sensitive, not that he loved Rey. But any viewer watching the movie without that knowledge would not get that from it imo, so the average viewer is left thinking the writing left Finn in unrequited love with Rey. And the writing completely brushed the Finnrose relationship to the side. I’m a Finnrey shipper so I didn’t really love Finnrose to begin with. But since Johnson started it, I honestly don’t know why JJ didn’t just continue it if he was going to continue Reylo. It seems better than spending time establishing Finn’s continued feelings for Rey only to leave him alone, especially since TLJ ended with Finnrose: it should have been easy enough to pick up their relationship and carry it forward. I know unrequited love exists, and exploring it in fiction can be poignant. But in this case it just didn’t track to me, and felt like a slap in the face to Finn’s character and anyone who was shipping Finnrey, Finnrose, or even Finnpoe. There seemed to be no reason to write Finn’s actions toward Rey the way they did if they weren’t going to put them together. Finn wasn’t together with anyone in the end. And in the same vein, shoehorning in a past romance for Poe with Keri Russell’s character just felt like a cheap way to make sure Finnpoe wasn’t going to happen. Idk. But these were the only aspects I really didn’t like.

I loved the many displays of Rey’s incredible power. I loved seeing Rey use the Force to heal, just like we saw Baby Yoda do in that week’s episode of The Mandalorian. I thought the scene where she accidentally used Force lightning was chilling and interesting foreshadowing for Rey Palpatine, even though I don’t really love that she’s a Palpatine. That being said, as a scorned Dany fan, I really enjoyed the message that who you are by blood should not define you. GoT ultimately ended with the message that your family and your family’s legacy are inescapable, grim realities. TROS had a much more hopeful message. This is also an important message to me personally because I have a lot of baggage with my father and his side of the family. It’s something I’ve struggled with. I never want to be like him. That aspect of Rey’s inner conflict was really beautiful to me and I think Daisy portrayed her struggle with darkness very well. I also thought her vision of dark!Rey was terrifying and really well done. The scene of her looking in the mirror at herself under Ahch-To in TLJ was probably my favorite scene of that movie so I liked seeing JJ utilize similar imagery there.

I loved seeing the trio together on a mission. The chemistry between Daisy, John, and Oscar is excellent and the comedy and wholesomeness between them is what made the movie so fun and memorable imo. I would have been happy with an OT3 for their characters, but c’est la vie haha.I loved the fan service. What can I say? I’m a fan: I like to be serviced lol. I know it was cheesy to some people, but Force Ghost!Luke lifting his X-Wing out of the water for Rey made me tear up. It was a nice callback to the moment with Luke and Yoda on Dagobah. Speaking of callbacks, I also loved the final shot with the binary sunset on Tatooine. I’ll admit I don’t really get why Rey has BB-8, or why she’s alone, or why she would choose to live in a place that even Luke wanted desperately to leave… but the visual and musical parallel to ANH got me right in the feels in the best way.

I loved seeing Ian McDiarmid return as Palpatine, who was as delightfully evil as ever. I don’t really understand how or why Palpatine had to come back, and I am not satisfied with the explanation for Snoke. But the Emperor is a classic and an iconic character I love. Having him as the ultimate baddy was satisfying in its own way. I also thought everything abot Exegol and the Sith fortress was terrifying and visually stunning. Even the sound effects of the lightning, and the way that blended with ominous music, was really interesting to me. I loved almost every sequence that took place on Exegol.

Lastly, (and this is the part I have been nervous to post about haha) I liked Ben Solo. I am not a Reylo shipper. That’s not something I talk about really because I have a ton of Reylo friends and I really treasure those people. The last thing I want to do is hurt their feelings or make them feel unwelcome on my blog. But In TFA and TLJ I didn’t really see that many redeeming qualities in Kylo Ren, and I certainly don’t ship him with Rey. I liked the character as a villain from the first moment I heard Adam Driver’s epic voice and saw Kylo Ren freeze Poe’s blaster bolt in stasis using the Force. I thought he was cool and I loved the crazy sound effects and unstable appearance of his unique lightsaber. But I just didn’t really romanticize him at all. I also thought TLJ ended on a pretty definitively negative note for the character. He told his men in no uncertain terms to blow the Falcon out of the sky with Rey in it. And I didn’t think killing Han and trying to kill Luke was something he was going to come back from. I didn’t really want “Bendemption.”

I say all this because I think this is one of the reasons why TROS impressed me so much. When it actually happened, I was happy that Kylo was redeemed as Ben. The scene with Han reminded me that above all, this is Han and Leia’s son. No matter how much of a villain I thought Kylo Ren was, I didn’t want Han and Leia both to die and for their son to die in disgrace without ever having made amends for the things he’d done. I couldn’t love Han and Leia the way I do without hoping for some semblance of peace for their family. And when he took off the Kylo Ren getup and dressed more like a regular guy, when he adopted some of Han’s personality, when he stormed into Palpatine’s lair on Exegol blaster blazing, and most of all when he wielded a Jedi’s lightsaber alongside Rey, I loved it. I really, truly loved it. And for someone who went into the movie theater expecting to hate that aspect of the story, I think that speaks volumes. They won me over. They made me like Ben Solo. I don’t really think it’s a great social message for the real world in 2019 to forgive him despite all he’s done. But if I divorce it from real-world implications and just treat it like Star Wars, I’m actually glad it happened the way it did. Leia deserved to have her death mean something. She gave the last of her strength to reach out to her son. Not to Kylo Ren, but to Ben Solo. She and the audience both deserved to see Ben Solo before the end. And for him to make the ultimate sacrifice for Rey was, to me, the best possible way he could go out. I found it to be a very compelling end. His death made me surprisingly sad, but it was a noble death.

Anyway, like I said above, I know the movie has a lot of issues. I haven’t even addressed a fraction of the things I could say about this movie–both good and bad. But ultimately I boil it down to how a movie makes me feel. This one left a strong emotional impact on me and I was happy to watch it a second time. I laughed, I cried, I reflected on why I’ve loved Star Wars for my entire life. So I have to say I liked it. Sorry for the giant answer haha :P

#answered #i realize i am in the tumblr minority with this opinion lol #please don't hate me guys

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sonfaro · 6 years

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@you-me-and-the-force-between-us Thank you for your rebuttal. My response will be similarly long, and tumblr is being annoying so I’m switching to a new thread.

“Normal behavior isn’t always guaranteed by everyone. That’s life. Of course there are always going to be outliers of people who don’t think as they should. But they’re small compared to the number of people who CAN make these differences, so making comparisons like these are not only hurtful, but useless. It doesn’t matter WHAT language you use, somewhere out there–is going to fan over a serial killer or want to become one, because it’s not about language, it’s about personal experiences.” It DOES matter to those who are left behind. To those who’s people are routinely NOT treated in this way. Infantilizing dangerous white men at any level of media sets a tone. To see that kind of behavior follow into fiction and NOBODY have a problem with it is beyond bizarre to me. I’ve had friends locked up for far less who never got treated like the children they were, so forgive me if I’m a little sensitive to the subject. “People who sympathisize with these types of people are either going through some sort of fucked up, I’m edgy 100%, phase that they’ll grow out of or have some serious mental instabilities. It isn’t the media’s job to walk on egg shells with language,“ It’s the media’s job to present the truth with no spin. When they do things like this, it absolutely poisons the well. There’s no one to blame for his crimes but the monster, but there are people to blame for how that monster is viewed by the masses. “This other rhetoric about what’s being said and how it compares to fiction–it’s bullshit. And let’s be honest here for a second–just honestly speaking–looking through OP’s page you can very damn well tell this post isn’t done with good intentions in mind; it’s a clear attack on a group of people under the facet of being a good citizen who truly cares. Which also pisses me off.“ In what way? I’ve literally seen someone claim that Kylo is ‘young’ and ‘doesn’t know any better’. That sort of language does exist amongst the fandom. “(I’ve seen people call others abelist for using the word crazy on this hellsite, but idc either way) “ You’re sympathizing with the villain is all. Which is fine, “ Clearly it isn’t??? Because that’s OP’s point. That’s what OP has a problem with, saying that we’re like criminal sympathizers because we sympathize with a villain–so YES I agree, I’m JUST sympathizing with a villain IS ALL, nothing more. That’s the point.“ OP’s point is about the language being used: the infantilizing and woobifying. I can sympathize with Erik Killmonger, but know he’s a grown man and his end in Black Panther is justified. I’m not going to say “He’s basically a teenager lashing out” or nonsense like that - which IS a thing that Kylo stans have said. “ALSO JUST SO EVERYONE’S AWARE. This ISN’T the media saying this.“ Matt O’Donnell, listed below the lawyer in OP’s post, is a reporter. He lists the killer’s status as an orphan (with no reason), his young age (with no reason), and suggests he had a ‘troubled’ background. These are softening social cues. And the media doesn’t have to make these quotes the headline. It is they who present these quotes as a worthy title for an article. “Darth Vader is one of THEE most popular villains of all time, and most people ADORE baby-fying him.” Not canon Darth Vader they don’t. If you want an Alt universe Kylo (like Emo Kylo Ren) it’s whatever. That's a separate idea. “He was Kylo BEFORE KYLO EXISTED–he’s WORSE than Kylo–so where’s all the hate there?“ I disagree. Vader was a tool for the Emperor. Kylo IS the Emperor now. And the hate is largely gone because in canon Vader died sacrificing himself for the hero. “Why isn’t the majority of the world turned into serial killer supporters by now? A. The majority of the world isn’t into star wars. We’re a big fandom, but the world is bigger B. and the majority of Vader’s fans don’t try to justify his actions. He’s liked because he makes a great foil for our heroes. Why isn’t OP making a comparison to Darth Vader and attacking his fans? Again, Vader’s fans generally don’t make excuses for his actions. Because OP has an agenda to attack Reylos and make them seem like horrible people, because that’s just the way the shit rolls on Tumblr nowadays. Agreed, he definitely does. “[...]Committing a crime due to violent media, is far less easy to prove, and there has been no direct connection thus far.“ Right, but your post flat said “It isn’t true”, and that has not yet been determined. Hence my post. “All of these still prove my point–media alone does NOT transform you into a violent person UNLESS you already have a predisposition to being violent (like a history of abuse or a mental illness etc). It ISN’T true until you have enough statistics that back up your claim, and this doesn’t. What’s unhelpful, is not being well researched in a matter and making blatant claims. “ But I didn’t make a blatant claim about video games. I literally said the jury was still out. In response to you flat saying it wasn’t true. -_- “The media compares Hux and FO to Nazism because there’s a legitimate comparison to make (I know some SW fans disagree with me, but there is blatant Nazism parallels imo), because that was done PURPOSEFULLY. They took one evil regime irl and were inspired by it to create a fictional one of it. Every writer and design EVER takes inspiration form real life things to create something, eve villains. But let’s give an example here of a rational comparison and a shitty one:- Hux is like a Nazi (this can be confirmed by the imagery in SW, and background information, etc) - Hux is like a Nazi and therefore if you like Hux you like the Nazi party and therefore you’re a Nazi apologist. Hux is a Nazi and you’re a Nazi apologist.“ This is a bit of a straw man. You’d only be a Nazi apologist if you thought Hux’s POV were correct. Once more, liking a villain is fine - liking them to the point where your sympathy leads you to defend their views and actions is another thing entirely. “Saying that someone who likes Hux or the FO is like someone who might have agreed/sympathized with the deaths of millions of people is a HORRIBLE, inaccurate comparison to make (also Hux is LIKE a Nazi and Hux IS a Nazi are two different things, “ Again, that’s not what’s happening here. OP is talking about a specific action (how shippers talk about Kylo). Not liking the character in general. “And if you’re going to make the point that forcing yourself into someone’s mind is akin to rape, and therefore Kylo’s a rapist (and therefore Reylos are rape apologists–no lie i hear this shit WAY TOO much) then guess what?Obi-Wan is a rapist.Vader is a rapist.LUKE is a rapist.” I mean Vader definitely attempted to force himself into his daughters mind in ANH. Dude was the villain. The jedi mindtrick is more deception than anything else - morally suspect but not a painful violation unless there are more than one person doing it at the same time. Which is the actual term Pablo Hidalgo prefers for what Kylo does to Rey in that scene - a violation. “She (or he idk and idc tbh) is basically insinuating that Kylo Ren sympathizers cause school shooters sympathizers.“ Or vice versa, that the media and how damaged white monsters are portrayed is the reason Reylo’s see Kylo as sympathetic. Which was what OP’s excuse was IIRC. Personally I think the fault for both lies more with societies internal preference for white dudes, but that’s my take. “//Also–just for future notice–I don’t suggest ever using a Buzzfeed article to support your claim because your credibility will go right out the window. Buzzfeed is a pandering shitfest that is really written more by biased bloggers than actual reporters. I suggest using articles without bias and an actual good writing team and reputation.//“ I mean at this point that’s every news organization ever - least in America as far as I can tell. You can barely open a paper or watch the news without someone's opinion’s being clear. And it’s hardly the only article: https://www.salon.com/2016/01/12/we_need_to_talk_about_ben_kylo_ren_star_wars_and_the_media_narrative_of_the_mentally_ill_school_shooter/ https://www.theverge.com/2016/1/1/10698090/emo-kylo-ren-star-wars-parody-twitter http://www.forcematerial.com/home/2017/11/5/we-need-to-talk-about-kylo https://geekmom.com/2016/01/trying-not-to-raise-kylo-ren/ Kylo being compared to real world evil isn’t new. Shoot, there’s a bunch that link Kylo to the alt-right as well. Double shoot, Adam Driver himself straight compared him to terrorists. Kylo gets compared to lots of real world evil people. It’s going to happen. “Yup that’s definitely what happened. It wasn’t like he literally saw Luke about to kill him in his sleep“ No, he LITERALLY saw Luke post realization that he was in the wrong but still holding his lightsaber (like an idiot) and jumped to the conclusion his uncle was going to attack him. Luke’s behavior (which is a character assassination if I’ve ever seen one, but that’s an argument for another time) also happens only after peering into Ben’s mind and seeing nothing but evil. Ben then definitely attacks his uncle after that - from his point of view in self defence, sure - but from the overhead view an unnecessarily. “Oh no–wait, I was wrong:“ ...the article LITERALLY lists him murdering the kids. -_- “Oh so I guess it’s like I said before–people PICK AND CHOOSE their biases!! There is a UNMISTAKABLE comparison between Vader and Kylo FOR A REASON–the two ARE very much alike. But Kylo is a shooter and Vader’s tragic and grand?? GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE WITH THIS BULLSHIT.“ Uh, yeah. Vaders complete arc requires six movies at two hours at least each to tell. It’s pretty grand (lofty, big, etc). His heel turn alone is a culmination of three whole films. Also, the article presents Kylo as tragic as well, with Drivers portrayal being described as: “a mixture of pain and hurt so raw it threatens to rend the fabric of the series every time he's on screen“. Did you actually read it? “really made me want to pluck my eyes out. Holy hell my dude, why did you use this as a reference when it’s so clearly just—bad?? I think I lost five years of my life.“ Because it’s another example of Kylo being compared to the evil that is a school shooter. Again, it’s not the only time, and it’s not the only horrible evil he’s compared to. OP was insensitive about it though, given recent events. “And I want to make this clear–I don’t give a single FUCK if you don’t like Kylo Ren. That your opinion.“ I like his character a lot actually. I think he makes an excellent, compelling villain based on Adam Driver’s work. My issue is people attempting to pretend he isn’t one, or that his past trauma absolves him of ANYTHING he’s chosen to do, or that anyone owes him anything at this point, or pretending that this 30 year old man’s childishness can be justified at all. My bigger concern is that sort of thing happens in the real world for folks just like Kylo and that the two often sound exactly the same. “ I CARE when you bring real people into stupid fictional shit and say “You’re the reason why this is happening. It’s YOUR fault things are this way” I don’t think that was OP’s point at all. Least as far as he’s said. “ESPECIALLY when fiction is used right after a real tragedy like this. “ THAT I can agree with. Dude was insensitive. “ It’s disgusting to be compared on ANY level with someone who might do something like this–and again–it isn’t true. “ No one compared you guys to the shooter. How you TALK about the villain was compared. “ Read up on mental illness, debate gun control, read up on what actually causes school shooters to occur, look up psychological studies of BOTH sides, not just what Buzzfeed says–they aren’t accredited to make those calls in any way.“ The article I listed didn’t list the causes of school shooting at all. Did you just skim it? “STOP accepting this shit behavior my dude. It ISN’T OK or educated AT ALL. It’s downright stupid.“ The behavior I don’t accept. The point - that dangerous young white men are coddled both in and out of fiction - is all too true though.

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