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maya-matlin · 2 months

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What would you highlight as key similarities and also a few major differences between our beloved Maya and Haley James Scott?!

Okay, I'll have to think about this one. Even though I've always felt their characters were similar, I never thought to break down the similarities and differences.

To start with, both Haley and Maya are passionate about their music. Both view it as one of their life's greatest ambitions. Ultimately, I think Maya's more ambitious than Haley. Or at the least, she has and had different priorities. Before Haley was able to seriously think about pursuing a musical career, she'd married Nathan. Based on that alone as well as inexperienced teens trying to play at being an adult married couple, there were automatically different expectations for what Haley should do and how she should go about it. Maya had no such limitations. While Maya sometimes tried and failed to put her music first, typically allowing boy drama to get in the way, she never stopped trying to make her music happen. In some ways, the Nathan/Haley/Chris and Zig/Maya/Jonah situations parallels, albeit with some differences. Chris was actually interested in Haley (actually in love with her if you believe what Dan says in season 9) and kissed her multiple times, which Haley returned. Although Jonah was very sketchy around Maya and seemed insulted by Zig's mere presence, he never showed any concrete signs of liking Maya, instead going for Frankie. But both Zig and Nathan at least believed these guys were threats to their relationship, attempting to step in and assert themselves. Nathan physically threatened Chris while Zig attempted to lock down his sexual relationship with Maya so that she wouldn't "look elsewhere". The girls' musical ambitions indirectly tore apart their relationships. But due to Zig objectively being far more to blame for his relationship with Maya falling apart in contrast to everything being very grey where Naley were concerned, Maya remains guilt free about putting her music first, never wavering from that. Haley, on the other hand, felt a great deal of guilt for hurting Nathan and for the tour, later downplaying her love for music multiple times, constantly feeling the need to reiterate that her musical career was nothing compared to her love for Nathan. As Maya and Haley look towards their futures after high school, their priorities are once again different. Even before Haley got pregnant, she was prepared to give up the school she'd wanted to attend since she was a kid just to follow Nathan. Maya thought only of herself. Though, Maya was single at the time and had no reason to believe Zig was going to be a possibility again, even if he did get into university. Regardless, I feel confident that Maya wouldn't have attended a lesser school just to be with Zig.

Personality wise, they're pretty similar. Both are wise, sometimes bordering on judgmental, believing that they know what's best for their friends and loved ones. Both are often the moral centers of their friend groups. Both are the younger siblings of older sisters who screwed up their own lives in some way. But while Taylor was more of a party girl and the type to sleep around (nothing wrong with it - it's just the way she was portrayed), Katie held herself to very high standards and eventually crumbled at the first hint of imperfection and a real challenge. In that way, Haley and Katie are probably more alike considering how laidback Maya is the majority of the time. Both Haley and Maya are friendly and supportive towards everyone in their lives. Maya and Haley experience occasional bouts of anxiety. Maya's feels more like a combination of social awkwardness and a direct result of her PTSD over losing Cam. Haley's is more general, in my opinion. It took her longer to become comfortable performing, even in season 6 after she's gone on tour. Maya seems pretty fearless in this way. Both have a thing for "saving" troubled men (Haley with Nathan, Maya with Zig and Miles). But while Haley seems very hesitant to rebel and attempts to hold herself to an unreasonable standard, Maya is pretty comfortable pushing the boundaries of who she is as a person. It's a pretty big deal for Haley to get drunk during the school day. But if Maya decides she wants to pop molly like it's nothing, why not? She's at a party, and she wants to feel closer to her boyfriend. Even before losing her virginity, Maya is comfortable expressing her sexuality. She writes about desiring to do more than talk with her boyfriends in multiple songs (Actions Speak Louder Than Words, Unravel Me, Wanna Get Off). Whereas Haley is very stuck on wanting sex to be something magical and meaningful, I don't think Maya has the same reservations. She wants her first time to mean something ("I sort of wish my first time wasn't high, you know?"), but I don't think she needs anything specific or necessarily a big commitment outside of being in a monogamous relationship to feel ready to take that step.

Then obviously, both girls eventually develop depression and suffer from suicidal ideation, going as far as attempting it or coming close multiple times. Following the death of Haley's mother, she's despondent. Though Haley's closeness with her family members was rarely ever touched on following them literally packing up and moving away the instant Haley's marriage license was dry, apparently Lydia was a constant in Haley's life that she could turn to for advice and emotional support. She has no idea what to do with herself without her mother. Haley's depression manifests in sadness, which we see when she breaks down sobbing alone. We also see Haley becoming angry and feeling numb, unable to care that she's neglecting the people and things in her life. Only Haley snapping at Jamie is able to briefly break her out of this. Still, Haley has Nathan and a support system willing to stick with her through all of this. Maya doesn't. This is a good example of One Tree Hill and Degrassi being very different shows. Not only that, but Degrassi depicts teenagers pretty realistically. By this point in OTH's run, the characters are adults and have a better grasp on how to handle something like this. On Degrassi, all of Maya's warning signs are either misinterpreted, missed completely, or kind of unable to be followed up on due to things like Maya kissing Zig while he has a girlfriend. So, Maya is much more alone than Haley was, with only Saad as a true companion. But even he doesn't fully understand the extent of Maya's pain and suffering. The majority of her depression manifests itself in numbness with her struggling to enjoy even the smallest things. Like Haley, Maya no longer feels like her old self. Her years of burying her grief over Cam and constantly being shat on by life itself, this time temporarily losing even her musical outlet when she breaks her wrist, has left Maya in a dark place. She questions her own existence, wondering why she gets to live, blaming herself for other people's misery. Maya clearly thinks she's cursed. Eventually, both girls attempt suicide, no longer able to take the pain. Haley is rescued by Nathan while Maya is saved by Zig and Esme. Both recover in time. Honestly, the follow up to both arcs could have been better, but things like Haley's pregnancy and Maya preparing to graduate high school obviously took precedence. Interestingly, Haley is never shown to return to pursuing music after this while Maya only reaffirms that a musical career is indeed what she wants.

Anyways, I feel like this was all over the place. So sorry about that!

Edit: I'm so annoyed with myself, but I won't be able to let it go until I also acknowledge Maya's and Haley's respective "not like other girls" issues. Both made comments alluding to looking down on cheerleaders and more popular girls. Though, both seem to identify as feminists. Maya actively seems to unlearn this trait, spending the rest of her time on the show lifting other girls up. Haley continues to perpetuate this from time to time, mostly because the showrunner was a controlling, toxic, sexual harasser who hated women.

#mayamatlinscello #suicide tw #depression tw #Long post

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hydesjackiespuddinpop · 2 months

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Who, if anyone, do you ship Rebekah with?! I haven't watched that show in a very long time but remember having a weird soft spot for her and Matt :)

Honestly I ship Rebekah with almost EVERYONE. She just has chemistry with everyone. But my otps for her currently are Stebekah and Bonbekah. I love Stebekah’s chemistry and their dynamic is so intriguing to me. If Stelena couldn’t have been endgame, I would’ve loved if Stefan went to New Orleans with Bekah and Klaus.

And I love Bonbekah for so many reasons. One of them is how they’re pretty similar as people. Both love hard and passionately and constantly get betrayed. Also their taste in men is questionable haha. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I wish Rebekah befriended Bonnie in s4 instead of April, who was literally never mentioned before s4. And right after Prom, she’s just whoosh and I don’t think she was ever mentioned again haha.

#answered #mayamatlinscello #rebekah mikaelson #bonbekah #stebekah #I love mabekah too #they were so adorable #tho Matt had his moments of being kind of a dick at times #but he and rebekah were cute

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fallowtail · 2 months

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How would you rank all the Ghosts canon romances from your favorite to least favorite?!

Top top top is Hetty/Trevor, though I don't...know if we can really call it a romance lol, but it is a canon ship- canon situationship- so! I'm counting it!!! They're my blorbos it counts!! Followed by, uh, well, all of the rest which is a...pretty boring answer? But they're genuinely all on a similar playing field for me just because I'm not deeply invested in them- I ship them and like all of the other pairings together just fine! I think if I haaaad to pick one to be at the bottom (not counting Sas/Jessica, because...yeah) it would be Florfinn, but that's mostly just because we haven't gotten the chance to see much out of them and not because I think they're less interesting or anything. I think they have a lot of cute potential and a lot more in common than the two of them seem to be able to understand, lol.

...I am not very good at ranking things :"D

#replies #mayamatlinscello #cbs ghosts

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sulietsexual · 2 months

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"I have always thought that Cordy and Xander would make a fantastic couple as adults, once they both had the chance to mature and grow up a bit. They ended up being quite similar as they evolved as characters, with a lot of traits in common"---I was very excited to find this comment from you and would love to hear more about what you see Cordy and Xander as similarities since we as fans so often label them as 'opposites' and focus only on their differences :)

I think both Cordy and Xander underestimate themselves - and are constantly underestimated by others.

Neither are viewed as particularly smart or brave, yet they are both, they are both seen as shallow at times (Cordy regarding her lifestyle choices, Xander his interest in every skirt that walks past him) but both are much deeper than expected.

They both have odd senses of humour and are often not "understood" by those around them, but they make themselves essential parts of their respective teams.

Both are fiercely loyal to their respective leaders (and teams) but are not afraid to speak out against Buffy/Angel or to deal out harsh truths when needed. And they both function as the "hearts" of their respective teams.

#answered #mayamatlinscello #btvs

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userlaylivia · 2 months

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Hi fellow Merder shipper! I'd love to hear your top five Grey's Anatomy couples - in order if possible!

mark/lexie

jackson/april

alex/izzie

meredith/derek

callie/arizona

#I also love jolex and etc but those are my top 5 though sometimes the order changes lol #ty for the ask <3 #answered #mayamatlinscello

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missielynne · 2 months

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CBS Ghosts Review: The Owl

Hello, everyone who likes to read my reviews! It's great to be back!

We're off to a much stronger start with "The Owl" than we were with season two's premiere episode, Spies, that's for sure.

I know we were all eager to see who got sucked off and I think they picked the one person I was okay with. Granted with the way they did it, I still think there's a possibility that they're mistaken about the ghost actually being gone and if they reappear, I won't be surprised, but I'm not heartbroken about the loss either. I could go either way and be perfectly happy.

I loved how knowing that someone got sucked off brought people together and showed them looking after each other (Especially Nigel and Isaac being so worried for each other and that hug when they found one another again...my heart!)

Also, I want to see some interaction between Stephanie and Crash. His volunteering to check up on her was surprisingly sweet to me, especially since her really brash manner and attitude seems to have driven a majority of the house away (except for Nancy and Ralph).

Loved the cholera ghosts coming upstairs and poor Pete. Nancy continues to be an absolute boss in my eyes, especially the way she resolved the whole thing, got everyone back downstairs, and then was like "See you tonight for bodices and barons!" She's become a begrudgingly accepted part of "upstairs" and I like it!

Now for the most important thing: Jay. He was an absolute champ in this episode and it just reinforced how much I love him as a character and what the writers have done for him.

If I have one complaint about the BBC version (that has nothing to do with British storytelling vs. American storytelling) it's the show's inability or unwillingness due to time to actually give Mike something to do with himself, or have his own relationship with the ghosts. (And it's a real shame too because as we see in Bump in the Night, when it's allowed, it's pure comedy.)

Allowing Jay to build relationships with the ghosts to the point where he even has some degree of authority over them just like Sam does, (or can help them through problems in a way they accept) is just the best.

BBC just kind of dumped all the ghost care and stuff on Alison which is part of why (i think) the show had to end the way it did: Alison naturally couldn't be the "parent" to the ghosts AND Mia and since they couldn't bring themselves to have Mike share the load, they naturally had to pick one or the other and no matter how logically they tried to spin it, the ghosts lost out.

Jay is so damn important. He brings Sam back to earth when she gets too sucked into ghost drama but I also like that he doesn't make her choose one or the other. If the ghosts have a problem, he'll help her find a solution. Them being partners in ghost care allows CBS Ghosts to have it both ways, both the ghosts and their own lives as Livings, even if there are and will continue to be bumps and stumbles along the way that will have to be ironed out. I just don't see Jay and Sam being SO practical that they'd feel like they have to leave Woodstone in order to raise a family. I could be wrong, but that would just really seem out of character to me.

Also it says Nigel and Isaac's wedding planning will be season long and I can't wait to see what they do with that. It should be interesting. And I wonder what new ghosts we'll meet? I need at least one more trip to the Farnsbys' please please please cause that place is a ghost goldmine.

@mayamatlinscello

#cbs ghosts #cbs ghosts spoilers #missie's ghosts reviews

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maya-matlin · 2 months

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Pick your most unpopular opinion about each of these shows (only if you want to!!): Degrassi, OTH, Gilmore Girls, Friends, Riverdale, That 70s Show, and Dawson's Creek :)

Degrassi:

This is so difficult because I feel like I've stated so many opinions in the past. Okay. I think the Degrassi nudes arc was theoretically really interesting from a psychological standpoint as well as how a survivor would cope after going through a very public sexual assault trial with the details of what happened to them being well known. Because it feels like something so human and yet so misguided, I don't view Zoe's role in it as harshly as others do. To be fair, the writers lost the plot. Literally. It got really sensationalized with blackmailing and cheerleader dolls and fake hostage situations. I also really hate how it turned into a Zoe vs Frankie situation with zero nuance. Their past involving Frankie being an unsupportive friend who victim blamed Zoe multiple times was never brought up once in lieu of Frankie being turned into Zoe's victim. So while I wouldn't say I like the arc itself, I feel like it had potential. The writers just weren't committed to seeing it through and let Zoe down as a character. The aftermath was really underwhelming and made the whole story line irrelevant.

OTH:

Even though I like the shooting episode for what it is, it's a pretty mediocre depiction of characterizing a school shooter. Following Jimmy's suicide, the writing consistently expects the audience to feel sympathy for him and remember him as a good guy who did one bad thing. It's to the point where the entire school ends up signing his high school yearbook. To be fair, a lot of the Jimmy romanticism came from Mouth, who had weird morals himself considering he was the show's resident incel. But beyond that, Jimmy quickly stops being the villain of the episode to orchestrate a scenario where Dan just happens to stumble upon Keith and a gun, giving him the opportunity to murder him. Also, every other scene features monologues given by the characters that are blatantly trying WAY too hard to be deep and profound. Not to mention this episode marked the official return of romantic Lucas/Peyton, but because Peyton was bleeding and supposedly didn't know any better she can't possibly be held responsible for selfishly making a move on her best friend's boyfriend in what she believed to be her last moments. Sorry, fuck that. Your last moments shouldn't include complicating things for two people you claim to care about. Especially not when you were the one who helped ruin their relationship the first time around, and you know for a fact that your best friend still has trust issues over what happened.

Also, Brooke was the love of Lucas's life. I'll die on this hill. Blame Chad Michael Murray's inability to stop giving his ex-wife heart eyes even during scenes post-Brucas, but it is what it is.

Gilmore Girls:

It's difficult to know what is or isn't popular in the Gilmore Girls fandom. I guess I'll say that Rory dropping out of Yale was the right decision? The way I see it, nothing bad was ever going to come out of that. Rory was in a transitional place where she was questioning a lot of her life decisions. She didn't currently feel up to attending school, so she took some time off. It was completely understandable, yet the narrative insists that this was indicative of Rory going down a bad path. I can understand Lorelai wanting Rory to take some time to make sure this was what she wanted but if anything, Lorelai's overreaction probably made Rory take even more time off from school. Had Rory had her mother and best friend in her corner, maybe she would have realized by the beginning of the next semester that she was emotionally ready to return to Yale. Just.. everything with Lorelai, Richard and Emily feeling as though they could force Rory to go back to school as though she was suddenly going to lose her place and never be able to return was stupid. Out of the two of them, Lorelai was the pettiest and most in the wrong during their estrangement. Lorelai was the parent. Lorelai chose not to tell her daughter she was engaged. Rory shouldn't have ever felt as though she couldn't come home until she basically did everything her mother wanted her to do. Considering Lorelai's own history with Emily, you'd think she'd realize that. But again, the writers made sure we knew how badly Rory was ruining her life and making bad decisions for committing the crime of taking a leave of absence from school and daring to try other things in the meantime.

Friends:

My opinions on the Ross/Rachel infamous "break" are all over the place. Technically, I think Ross is right that their relationship was no longer intact when he slept with another woman. Their communication absolutely sucked during this story line. No attempts at clarification were ever made. Ross just walked out when Rachel said she wanted a break, and Rachel let him. Honestly, I don't even think Ross sleeping with someone else so soon after splitting up from Rachel, in whatever form you consider that to be, makes him an asshole. In an ideal world where everyone makes rational decisions all the time, Ross wouldn't have coped with intense heartbreak by immediately sleeping with someone else. But it was a human reaction, and I don't fault him for that. What I do fault him for is hiding it the next day, running around town trying to stop other people from telling Rachel. It's all but admitting that Ross and Rachel were still emotionally connected and in the mindset of being in a monogamous relationship. Even if they technically weren't. What I also fault him for is being so stubborn and adamant on being right that he never admits fault or owns up to causing Rachel pain for several years after that. So what if he didn't technically betray Rachel? To Rachel, it felt like one. Sometimes, when you love someone, you have to be understanding of the complexities of emotions and just take the fucking L, even if you're technically faultless by definition. And honestly, Rachel was part of the problem, too. What kind of relationship or connection do you really have if you're having the same, obnoxious argument for eight years, never able to get on the same page? Like, I know it's a comedy, but Friends wasn't playing up the comedy angle during this arc. Anyways, they definitely shouldn't have ended up together if they were going to keep getting tripped up over one argument for eight years.

Riverdale:

I don't know how unpopular this actually is, but Veronica is extremely underrated and never gets the love and appreciation she deserves. Looking across the entire series, including time jumps, different universes, and eras where the characters literally had powers, Veronica was consistently the most selfless and considerate character on the show. Half the time, she was the mean girl in name only. There were countless occasions where Veronica forgave even when she shouldn't have and/or should have held out for more remorse and effort from the person that wronged her. The attempt to compare Veronica kissing Ginger Judas in the pilot after knowing Archie and Betty for two seconds to Betty doing it three years into Varchie's relationship is.. it has some nerve. Anyways, Veronica was wonderful, ambitious, and everyone on that show was better for having known her. Sadly, she was underappreciated more often than not, rarely ever getting her due. I really wish anyone but Archie had been the love of her life, because he really didn't deserve her by the end.

That '70s Show:

Sometimes, Hyde gets way too much of a pass for his treatment of Jackie. I feel like he's overall the most popular character on the show with his relationship with Jackie being the most popular, resulting in a lot of his questionable behavior getting swept under the rug. Obviously Hyde had issues he needed to work through stemming from his childhood and struggled to let other people in. But Jackie was consistently a pretty great girlfriend for him, going out of her way to show love and affection, only for him to not 100% reciprocate. Fuck Danny Masterson (and honestly Mila at this point too), but a lot of what made that relationship what it was is the chemistry between Danny and Mila and how they chose to demonstrate the love between those two characters. Hyde was still miles ahead of Kelso and Fez and had great moments with Jackie. But it still needs to be said. Hyde put Jackie through a lot.

Dawson's Creek:

While not perfectly written, most of Andie's fall from grace during season 3 makes a lot of sense. I even think Andie cheating on Pacey was in character. It's a controversial take because no one wants to believe that season 2 Andie would have ever done such a thing. But the reality is, Andie had a literal mental breakdown. She says it herself. When Andie went to get mental health help, she was no longer the same girl Pacey fell in love with. Andie was in a dark, lonely, vulnerable place, and she met someone else. This guy understood parts of Andie's mental health struggles that Pacey couldn't, and it led to a friendship that became an emotional affair. They made their own world together, and then had one, impulsive slip up. It doesn't cheapen Andie's love for Pacey, but it's still understandable that Andie crossed a boundary of Pacey's that couldn't be uncrossed. After this, Andie's attempts to recuperate post-breakup, including her treatment of Pacey and even stealing the test were pretty consistent based on how desperately Andie wanted to appear normal and as though everything was under control. However, I also think early season 3 stacked the deck too far against Andie, resulting in her character leaving the show early. The supposed "false accusation" meant to make Andie look bad from a misogynistic, ableist showrunner took it too far. I personally think even during that episode, there are enough hints, including Rob's desperation to shut Andie's story down when she hadn't even gone to the authorities, indicates she told the truth. Seriously, his happy ass was all cocky when Pacey confronted him, but once he sobered up he practically sprinted to Joey's house to use Andie's mental health against her, even manhandling Joey multiple times to force her to listen. But whatever. The intent was obvious, and I still hated it. Anyways, Andie McPhee was great, and I wish people would still appreciate her at her worst. After all, it's what led to season 4 Andie, probably the strongest iteration of her character even though she sadly wasn't around for long.

#mayamatlinscello #Long post #I promise I never mean for these answers to be so long #I just have so much to say #Also the two OTH opinions aren't technically connected #I was just going through my Brucas tag and had a realization so my petty ass couldn't help it

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maya-matlin · 2 months

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What common Degrassi takes do you most disagree with, ie Zig being cocky and smooth, etc!

1.) Obviously, that one LOL. If someone legitimately tries to argue that Zig "I'm terrible at pretty much everything" "But is it good enough for you?" Novak is confident.. they're objectively wrong. They're getting stuck on him looking the part of the confident, bad boy and ignoring half of what comes out of his mouth.

2.) Darcy isn't irredeemable or a bad person because she falsely accused Snake of being inappropriate with her. She was a scared, traumatized child who panicked because she was thrown into a situation where she would be forced to talk about her rape before she was ready. Snake handled all of that completely wrong, even though he meant well. It didn't come from a heartless, malicious place. She immediately tried to take it all back and openly supported his return to the school. His career wasn't ruined. He eventually became the principal. I genuinely don't understand where people's compassion is when it comes to this story line. Darcy wasn't the ideal victim. She was never supposed to be.

3.) None of the canonically lesbian characters should have been bisexual. Based on what we saw from each one introduced to us with the assumption that they were straight (Alex, Fiona, Zoe), their eventual coming out journeys made sense. Could they have been written with more care with an actual explanation as to how they came to identify this way? Absolutely. But I feel like the Degrassi fandom constantly invalidates their sexualities, especially with Zoe, because they're upset they no longer get to justify shipping them with men.

4.) Don't kill me, but Eli calling Clare a whore wasn't out of character. It was cruel and he had zero excuse, but based on the number of times Eli lashed out at Clare and other people, it makes total sense that he'd say the worst possible thing he could think to say under the mistaken impression that he'd been wronged. He was hurt and angry, and he wanted her to feel bad. He behaved in a similar way after their first breakup.

5.) Jimmy wasn't the perfect boyfriend. In fact, Jimmy never gets enough shit for being so passive aggressive in relationships, particularly when he's ready to end it and emotionally invested in another girl. But because he's cowardly, something we saw pretty consistently over the years, he waits for his girlfriends to notice so that he doesn't have to be the bad guy and can play innocent. Overall, there are little things about Jimmy that bug me, such as calling Ashley a slut. And on that note, this fandom is way too comfortable openly enjoying slut shaming when they feel like the character is unlikable or irritating enough to "deserve it" (Clare and Ashley).

6.) Obligatory reminder that Zig didn't murder Cam due to his depression leading to his suicide and multiple things over the course of a couple of days playing a role in the headspace Cam was in when he ended his life

7.) Liberty was completely fucked over during her pregnancy arc. Excuse me. JT's pregnancy arc. It was blatantly racist how the show chose to be revolutionary by focusing on the black pregnant girl's white boyfriend for the entirety of her pregnancy. Liberty was the villain in her own story line because the writers really wanted us to understand how much pressure JT was under due to expecting a child, worrying about finances, his life changing drastically, etc. Things must have been rough for Liberty as well, but meh. She's just a bitter, controlling, bitch who never deserved JT. Seriously, I see that take a lot. In my opinion, they both could have handled things better, but neither was getting the help or support they needed. Liberty seemed to be in denial and couldn't cope with the fact she'd allowed herself to become pregnant due to carelessness when she's supposed to be so responsible. A lot must have been going on with her, both mentally and emotionally, but we never hear about it or see any of it.

8.) Clare and Drew were actually a good (no, great) ship. Many fans just weren't prepared or happy to see either with someone else due to the popularity of the Eli/Clare and Drew/Bianca relationships. It also wasn't random, out of character, or even all that forced based on how their characters had grown through the years. It's funny to see Clare described as being not Drew's type when he's pretty consistently into smart, ambitious women who can put him in his place. And in the case of Clare, her preferences are all over the place with Drew not being all that different physically or personality wise from KC or Jake. Their emotional connection grew and deepened for almost the entirety of season 13, including the summer between school years and for the majority of their senior year. Even though their decision to sleep together was impulsive and surprising, in reality they'd been circling each other for months. It was bound to happen, and then it did.

9.) Another thing I disagree with is that Maya should have talked about Cam more or told ___ about his suicide. It was very obvious to me that Maya was extremely triggered by Cam's death and struggled to move past it. It makes perfect sense that she'd struggle to even talk about it. It was extremely painful and personal to Maya. Miles was never going to be the one she opened up to. He just wasn't. This isn't even necessarily a pro Zaya thing. But the fact Zig was around for Cam's death and understood most of Maya's pain meant that Maya opening up to Zig about the way she was feeling and acknowledging her ex's existence was far more likely than Maya opening up to Miles, someone she struggled to open up to emotionally or relate to beyond what he was willing to share. At a certain point, it starts to feel like Maya bringing up Cam for the sake of bringing up Cam. Not because it's actually helping Maya or moving her story forward in any way.

10.) Tristan's biphobia towards Miles didn't happen in a vacuum. While Tristan's character was extremely flawed and he wasn't always the most likable person, it honestly came across to me that his biphobia got so out of control because it took the writers a long time to catch on to the fact that Tristan invalidating his boyfriend's sexual orientation was inappropriate, dehumanizing, and shouldn't have been written off as catty comments not meant to be taken seriously. Degrassi overall didn't handle polysexual identities very well. Paige's attraction to women was downplayed aside from her relationship with Alex. Imogen was also never labeled, eventually being referred to multiple times during her final season as a lesbian.

11.) Lola got the right endgame, and she definitely shouldn't have kept Miles's baby.

#mayamatlinscello #Long post #I tried to come up with some good ones LOL

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maya-matlin · 2 months

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What do you see as the main similarities and differences between Zaya and Joey/Pacey?!

I've been waiting for this ask my entire life LOL

So first things first, I've thought Zig and Pacey were similar characters for a long time. It's not a perfect comparison. High school Pacey was a lot more emotionally mature and almost unrealistically selfless and sensitive compared to Zig who was much more like your typical, ignorant teenager. But at the same time, there are still many parallels. Both guys had complicated relationships with their families. Zig's familial life prior to being kicked out is hardly shown or given much development. We know that his mother seems to love him and he presumably has a dad still in the picture. Pacey's parents resented and abused him, both physically and emotionally. He was constantly reminded what a failure he supposedly was and that they'd prefer he wasn't around. The tense family situation led to Pacey moving out of his childhood home halfway through his junior year in favor of living with Doug, and then Gretchen. Zig's story was much different. He's assumed to have a stable, relatively loving home life prior to his gang ties directly putting his family in harm's way. After Zig fails to leave the gang, either by his own decision or because he genuinely doesn't feel as though he's able to leave (it's unclear - Degrassi did not even try with this arc), he's kicked out and basically never accepted back home. Even after Zig does his best to leave the gang, doing better in school and staying out of trouble, it's still not enough. Just the hint of Zig being in the vicinity of something dangerous, aka Tiny being stabbed, is too much for his mom to accept. So as a result, Zig spends the rest of high school living in a group home after being forced to leave the Matlins' house. Both Zig and Pacey are fundamentally changed during their formative years by the absence of their parents' support and love. Pacey has been resigned to the reality that he'll never get what he needs from his family. Not that this even stops him from accepting the teensiest amount of affection, always being quick to meet his shitty family members halfway. Zig never fully recovers on screen from the loss of his family. He almost projects the need for a family onto Maya, the closest thing he has to unconditional love for a very long time. Considering their relationship is a romantic one and prone to falling apart because of the reality of high school relationships not typically working out, Zig never quite gets this from Maya. There's a semblance of Zig having a found family with Tiny, Grace and Maya, but it's like.. we don't really get that acknowledgement. At the end of Next Class, it's Zoe who has this moment with her classmates and closest friends. Regardless, Zig becomes desperate for love and stability in the absence of having a family. He's much more prone to self doubt and putting a lot of stock in his friends' opinions of him, something he directly tells Esme when apologizing for not doing a good job defending their relationship and Esme's status as his girlfriend. Both Zig and Pacey seek out permanent love to replace the rejection they feel from their parents.

Back to the self worth issues. No matter how many people in their lives try to validate them, Zig and Pacey never fully believe that they're worth much or are capable of good things. This aspect of Pacey is at least taken seriously. In season 4, Pacey' series-long self worth problems gradually manifest into depression and self hatred, resulting in him eventually ruining his relationship with Joey in a very ugly, self destructive way. Sound familiar LOL? Zig's self worth problems don't get this treatment. On some occasions, Zig's insecurities and strong feelings for Maya are almost played for laughs. No one takes his concerning comments seriously. Even when he opens up to Esme, sharing that he feels as though he isn't good at anything, she only focuses on Zig talking about "some other girl,” displaying jealousy that the guy she's into is still preoccupied with his ex. During Zig's relationship with Maya, particularly during the first season of Next Class, he's paralyzed with a lot of insecurities and believes he's losing Maya. No matter how much affection Maya gives him or tries to reassure Zig that he's the only one she wants - both physically and emotionally, he can't make himself accept it. Much like Pacey loses it at prom when he sees Joey dancing with Dawson, Zig self destructs in his own way: he cheats on Maya with Zoe, convinced she's doing the same same thing with Jonah even though he has zero evidence of this. Though Pacey intentionally and consciously breaks up with Joey through his actions, Zig indirectly does the same? Not really, but based on his demeanor when Maya comes back, Zig almost seemed convinced prior to Maya explaining what transpired during her visit to New York that what he did WASN'T cheating and that it wouldn't have mattered because Maya was already gone. Meaning, the official breakup was merely a formality. This doesn't negate his actions and isn't meant to downplay them. Simply put, Zig's emotions were all over the place. He could no longer discern the truth or have faith in Maya's love for him because of his own deep seated self hatred. This isn't unlike Pacey, who seemed to have less and less confidence in Joey's love for him as season 4 went on.

I can't find a coherent way to introduce the Pacey/Zig parallels, so here:

Eventually, both Pacey and Zig end up lashing out at Joey and Maya, blaming them for their bad behavior and/or the way they're feeling. Thankfully, both quickly apologize. Pacey does it more eloquently and comes across as much more sympathetic, though. But Zig at least does acknowledge he didn't actually hold Maya responsible for his impulsive, hurtful actions with Zoe.

In contrast, Maya and Joey aren't all that similar beyond spending some time in denial about their feelings and experiencing loss at a young age. Joey lost her mother to cancer while Maya's first boyfriend committed suicide. Their demeanors are very opposite. Joey is an extremely guarded person, using sarcasm and anger to keep people away. Maya is much friendlier. While she still has her guard up to some extent, particularly from the end of season 12 through halfway through season 14, she always welcomes people into her life - even if she sometimes can't let them all the way in. Much like Joey with Pacey, Maya exposes herself to Zig completely in a way she can't with other guys.

You'd think I'd be done by now, right? Sadly, I'm not. Both Zaya and Pacey/Joey had similar starts. Zig and Pacey spent a lot of time pining after Maya and Joey. Both girls claimed they didn't reciprocate the guys' feelings at one point or another. Pacey kissing Joey in season 1 only for her to reject him for Dawson could be comparable to Maya immediately getting back together with Cam after kissing Zig for the first time. But for what it's worth, it was always obvious to me that Maya had feelings for Zig that she wasn't owning up to, subconsciously or otherwise. Joey's feelings for Pacey don't appear to exist until season 3, though you could make an argument for repressed physical attraction based on the occasional comment. Not unlike how Pacey had gradually become Joey's best and closest friend during season 3, Zig served the same role in Maya's life once they started living together and moved past the messy triangle with Miles. Eventually, the tension came to the surface, and both couples shared a passionate kiss, initiated by one member of the ship.

Then, another initiated by the other half:

There's a brief attempt at a secret relationship. Though admittedly, Zaya's short stint (all of two seconds) as secret lovers was nothing compared to the traumatic experience that was the Dawson/Joey/Pacey love triangle. Eventually, both couples settle into a stable relationship after spending a mostly happy summer together. Being back at school and the the reality of both Maya and Joey being very ambitious people (Maya wanting to pursue her musical dreams and Joey wanting to attend a prestigious school) whereas Zig and Pacey aren't for whatever reason, perfectly content to be wherever their girlfriends are as they make zero plans for their own lives. The reality of what happens when you put so much stock into one person over your own success and self worth led to.. well, basically, my long ass rant, detailing Zig's and Pacey's issues.

Other miscellaneous moments that parallel are both Zig and Pacey having insecurities about their girlfriend's love for them because the relationships have yet to become or haven't since been, sexual. Both Maya and Joey have fears. Maya is afraid that things will get weird if she sleeps with Zig again. Joey has a whole host of sex-related fears that are barely addressed or even properly explained because this was the 2000's, and Dawson's Creek often perpetuated really gross ideas about female virginity and sexuality. But in time, both couples got on the same page and had somewhat similar love scenes.

Bonus:

As stated before, both Zig and Pacey plan to be with their girlfriends in the forseeable future:

Taking joy in their girlfriend's accomplishments:

Taking care of Maya/Joey while they're high/drunk:

It takes a long time, but eventually both couples find each other again.

And obviously, both thankfully ended up together! Zig moves to LA with Maya while Pacey is assumed to follow Joey to New York at some point after their reunion. Pacey eventually becomes a chef while Joey manages to get her dream, escaping Capeside and finding a fulfilling career. When we last see Zig and Maya, their lives are just starting out. But Maya is on her way to university to eventually work in the music industry. Zig's future is unknown, though it's always been clear that Zig has a talent for cooking, making it highly likely he'll also someday become a chef.

As for the differences, I'll keep it brief. Zig and Maya overall always had a pleasant, friendly sort of dynamic whereas Pacey and Joey constantly bantered, spending part of their formative years supposedly "hating" each other.

Okay, I'm officially done!

#mayamatlinscello #Long post #Not my gifs #I'm so sorry #But I'm telling you they're tethered even if I'm the only one that sees it #No one read this though #It's probably so full of typos but I'm sick of looking at it

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maya-matlin · 2 months

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What are your thoughts on Anya and Jane? I'm bringing them up because they were in a whole bunch of episodes yet somehow I literally always forget they exist, which probably doesn't say much about how compelling I found their characters?! I remember loving Jane initially and then thinking the show had no idea what to do with her. And Anya just seemed like such a sheep with no personality or strong opinions of her own, but that seems somewhat intentional?!

That's interesting. I feel like Anya is very memorable, but I can see why she'd be less noticeable compared to other characters.

Anya is complicated. She was one of my top favorites for years. I loved watching her character develop. You're right that Anya was always a follower and allowed herself to be easily misled and sometimes went along with things she didn't actually want just because she didn't care enough to fight it. She was very aimless and seemed to desire romance over stability, even in cases where none of her romances stood a chance of being successful. Anyways, I'm feeling less positively about Anya because I'm struggling to get past the fact she lied about being on birth control when she slept with Sav, therefore raping him by deception? And the thing is, I don't think she ever fully understands that this behavior was wrong, and that she violated the person she claimed to love. All Anya knows is that she shared something special with Sav, and then he quickly broke off their relationship. Her passivity leads to a lot of lying and deceiving to get the outcome she wants. There was the fake pregnancy that she later used to renew her relationship with Sav before going on to lie about a miscarriage. Only to be upset with Sav for yet again lying to his parents about not dating in high school. All those two did was lie to each other. She later lies to an adult man about being a legal adult in order to pursue a romantic relationship. He doesn't get a ton of sympathy for me considering he later made plans to see her again the minute she turned eighteen, but had he been someone with morals that would have been a deal breaker and had some sort of effect on his future dating life. Then there was the Owen relationship. Even though Anya was in a vulnerable place and felt very down on herself, she willingly dated a guy who committed hate crimes against two of her good friends and who is extremely predatory towards any girl that gets too close - Anya included. She pointedly ignores gigantic red flags to get validation. But then, I also like her demeanor? As manipulative and immature as Anya can be, she has good moments and is clearly lost for most of her time on the show. She's not an entirely bad friend, but she also isn't above throwing away that loyalty when it suits her. I don't know. She has a lot of issues.

As for Jane, I agree. Jane bugs me at times because she comes across as very judgmental and is another "not like other girls" character. It almost felt like Jane had a different personality based on the season. I liked season 8 Jane the best. Season 9 Jane was pretty confusing. Suddenly, she was singing in Peter's band and sleeping with Declan. I didn't mind the rationale behind Jane's affair, but it wasn't given a lot of explanation or even much thought. Anyways, sorry. I wish I could give you a better answer about Jane.

#mayamatlinscello #Long post #rape tw

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hydesjackiespuddinpop · 2 months

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What do you see Jay and Leia doing as careers? And what do you think their hobbies/interests would be? (I haven't seen T90sS, so if the show talks about what their interests are, I don't know them except that I think I saw Jay works in a video store and therefore presumably likes movies?!)

Jay, I see as a movie, director, and film producer. He just exudes theatre kid vibes to me, especially in the second ep (he makes broadway references).

Leia, in my verse, I have her as assistant mayoress. I just like the idea of her working alongside people. And she loves Point Place, so what would be better haha?

For hobbies, Jay would watch a lot of movies and broadway films along with playing with his dog haha. He also loves nature and being outdoors.

Leia, I see her reading or just hanging out with Gwen and Ozzie (mostly Gwen tho haha). I like the idea of her being into books (like how Donna was reading a book in Prank Day and seemed to enjoy it). I also like the idea of her joining a book club as a hobby. She also loves her cat Whiskers.

#answered #mayamatlinscello #lovely moots 💕#that 90s show #that '90s show #jeia #jay x leia #leia x jay #het ship

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maya-matlin · 2 months

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Name a show (or two or three!) that you once loved but now kind of can't stand? (Sadly, Gilmore Girls tops that list for me---please don't hate me!)

On a brighter note, which 1-2 shows did you once dislike but now love?

Name 1-2 ships that you once loved but grew to dislike

Name 1-2 ships that you once disliked but now love :)

Shows I once loved but now can't stand: (I promise I don't hate you!)

1.) Riverdale obviously tops the list. I genuinely think the first season was good and still enjoyed parts of seasons 2 and 3, but at a certain point the writers' resentment of the fans and careless writing was practically slapping me in the face. It wasn't just that Betty and Jughead were broken up, though that didn't help. It was as though no one, the creator of the show included, was aware of what made the show popular in the first place. The entirety of the time jump years were insulting, with the last two seasons being particularly bad. Rather than owning up to their failure, they literally switched up the genre, blew up the original universe, and sent the "characters" back in time. It's going to be a very long time before I can think too hard about Riverdale without feeling the bile coming up in my throat.

2.) 13 Reasons Why. I still think the first two seasons are overall pretty good in spite of some questionable choices and the disturbing need to be so graphic in the name of getting their points across. But by the end, it went from being a show about a group of kids brought together by the same shared experience, the suicide of Hannah Baker, to a show that attempted to humanize rapists.

3.) Gossip Girl lost me by the end. I feel like with time, so much of the joy was drained from the show. It was replaced by the inevitability that the elite would always be on top and that the only way to earn anyone's respect is to throw away your morality. And even then, this only works out if you're a man. In the case of someone like Jenny Humphrey, you end up being banished forever for getting taken advantage of by the town serial rapist. And the sole remaining bright spot of the show, the love story between Dan and Blair, was trashed to go back to the original couples.

Shows that I once disliked but now love:

1.) This isn't totally accurate, but I remember thinking that Friends was so overrated based on seeing only a handful of episodes. At the time, it was everywhere. There were board games, best of DVD's, card games, t-shirts, soundtracks, etc. I just didn't get the appeal. Now, I totally do. While I agree that aspects of the show didn't age perfectly and I actively dislike one of the main two ships, Ross/Rachel, Friends is now one of my comfort show and one of my all time favorites.

Honestly, that's about it. I can't think of another show.

Couples that I once loved but grew to dislike:

1.) Chuck and Blair (Gossip Girl). When I first watched the show as a teenager, these two were my favorite couple. At least at first. Now, I genuinely don't know what I saw in them. I mainly enjoyed the chemistry and the back and forth during the first season with Chuck pining and Blair being a first choice. By the second season, I was already over the mind games. Then after that, all hell broke loose.

2.) Johnny and Alli. I feel like I've gone through different phases with these two, each one of them ending with the realization that actually, their relationship was even more horrifying that I'd realized. In my defense, I was literally Alli's age during season 8. I liked seeing the smart, rebellious girl pursuing and trying to tame the unattainable, secretly smart, bad boy. I liked seeing Johnny's softness around Alli even though the last thing he wanted to do was admit he could have real feelings for someone so much younger. But later, I obviously realized what a massive asshole Johnny was. Having genuine feelings and viewing Alli as "different" than other girls meant absolutely nothing considering so many of his interactions with Alli came across as emotionally abusive, culminating with him sharing pictures of her 14/15 year old naked body with his equally older friend. Johnny didn't want to show any weakness or vulnerability, and he took all of his hang ups out on Alli. Sickening.

Couples that I once disliked but now love:

1.) Sav and Holly J. The first time I watched season 10, I was mad about their relationship. At the time, I was much more into Sav/Anya and Declan/Holly J. I couldn't get past the idea of the two characters with their first loves, particularly Anya being betrayed by her best friend and her ex-boyfriend, even though Anya herself was never that bothered by it. But through multiple rewatches, they've become one of my favorite couples on the show. They were so sweet and healthy. The fact their previous relationships were treated as something ultra serious that just HAD to work out makes Holly J and Sav basically just feeling things out with each other that much more refreshing.

2.) Mia and Nicholas (The Princess Diaries 2). I was a huge fan of the first movie. I never even read the book series. All I knew was that Michael was the perfect boyfriend for Mia and no one could possibly compete with that. When I saw the second movie in theaters and Mia ended up with someone totally new with Michael not even being a consideration, I was furious. I think it took me years to watch the second movie again, even though I owned the first one on DVD. A few years ago, I revisited both movies and was blown away by how much better Mia and Nicholas worked for me than Mia and Michael. While Mia's relationship with Michael was sweet as a first love, teen relationship, I feel like Mia really connected with Nicholas as a woman. They had so much passion and surprisingly, things in common. They challenged each other and lifted each other up, and it's so easy to imagine them living happily ever after in royal harmony.

#mayamatlinscello #Long post

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hydesjackiespuddinpop · 2 months

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This or that: Eric/Donna or Jackie/Hyde? Jenna/Connor or Jenna/KC (Degrassi, and please don't feel pressured to pick jonnor just because I'm weirdly in love with them!) Emma or Manny? Caroline or Elena? Barney or Marshall?

Yay! Love these

Eric/Donna or Jackie/Hyde? I know this is shocking given my url haha. I wrote a whole separate post, but basically, JH has been one of my biggest otps and part of my blueprint since I was 13. And when I put this username, they were still my #1 otp. I still have love for them but due to my view on both characters changing and me preferring Eric and Donna as characters over them, I choose E/D. I do love E/D as a ship tho, so don't get it twisted haha. There's just something so pure and sweet about falling in love with your best friend. Especially after knowing them for a long ass time.

Jenna/Connor or Jenna/KC? I couldn't really GET the Kenna hype tbh. Even when I did start liking KC after more watches, him and Jenna just aren't meant to be imo. They're just very unhealthy.

Jonnor is literally the purest ship ever. I love Connor sm and he treats Jenna like a damn queen. I lov how Jenna EMBRACES Connor's 'nerdiness' (i.e. "you can talk nerdy to me any time."). As far as I'm concerned, in every world, they're now married with two children.

Emma or Manny?

Manny's been my bitch since day one. Always loved her, always will. She's not perfect, but she grows and matures.

Emma really irritates me at times ngl haha. Maybe that'll change on a rewatch but ehhh. S3, S7-S8 (?) are like the only times Emma never annoyed me in my last watch. I do love her though and I like the idea of her being single, thriving, and just being the fun aunt to Janny's kids.

Caroline or Elena?

I don't hate Caroline anymore, but it's way she gets so much slack from the writers and ever parts of the fandom that annoy me. Like the fact that most of the time she gets praised for things Elena is shat on (sometimes rightfully tho haha).

Elena, for all her flaws, isn't the worst human being imo. I actually feel more bad for her than hate her. She still pisses me off at times, but I don't think she's this irredeemable monster.

Last note, but Elena Gilbert does not owe Stefan Salvatore and Damon Salvatore a goddamn thing and I will forever die on that hill.

Barney or Marshall?

I love them both SO MUCH. I wanted to pick Barney because he just makes me laugh, but I have a thing for wholesome men. And Marshall is one of them. I really like his relationship with Lily. Despite their issues, they're really adorable. Honestly I'll go far as to say they're my Stelena.

#answered #mayamatlinscello #formciotti #jonnor #anti kenna #manny santos #elena gilbert #marshall eriksen

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maya-matlin · 2 months

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Since we've talked a lot (but never enough!) about both OTH and Degrassi lately...

If you had to choose one or two Degrassi characters who are most similar to Lucas, who would they be?

One or two Degrassi characters who are most similar to Peyton?

One or two Degrassi characters who are most similar to Haley?

Same question as above for Nathan

Same question as above for our beloved Brooke (sorry for not writing out the whole question again - this site isn't letting me copy and paste, and you know I'm extraordinarily lazy!)

If you had to choose...OTH overall or Degrassi overall?

Choose your top three Degrassi OTPs, top three OTH OTPs, and then rank all six of those ships in order from your favorite to least favorite with no ties allowed :)

Three things you prefer about OTH to Degrassi AND three things you prefer about Degrassi to OTH! Or four or five or six... :)

Aw, you're so sweet. <3

1.) Similar to Lucas.. hmm. My immediate thoughts are Craig and Miles. Both have definite parental issues, particularly involving their fathers. All three of these guys move from partner to partner very quickly, rarely ever satisfied with staying single for long. They have zero shame when it comes to dating their way through the same friend group. All three like to pull out the old "you're the one for me" or "you're the only one who understands me" cards. It's not always a line, but due to the frequency it becomes less and less believable as time goes on. Both Lucas and Craig had a big, dramatic love triangle early on involving them sneaking around behind their girlfriend's back with another girl. They vowed to change their ways, never wanting to cheat again, if only they could have a second chance with Brooke/Ashley. But the minute the second relationship failed for whatever reason, they went back to their affair partners. After that, both seemed to give up on remaining faithful. Craig and Lucas both cheated on their live-in girlfriends with someone from their past. You can't make this shit up. The writers protected Miles to some degree. He didn't technically cheat on Maya with Zoe. His best friend just yelled at him until he stopped trying to make out with his barely conscious ex girlfriend, allowing his conscience to kick in just in time. He also slept with Lola and had a full on emotional relationship with her while his boyfriend was in a coma, but of course the excuse was that he couldn't be sure Tristan would make it. But in Miles's defense, he's mostly self aware. He doesn't fully understand that he enters each and every relationship in the hopes that this one person will understand him completely, never judging or putting any sort of pressure on him, only for that to inevitably fall apart, causing him to be bitter and quickly find someone new (or old, as the case may be). But he does at least realize he can be a mess and self destructive during times of turmoil, not even fully blaming his significant others when they can no longer deal with him. Lucas truly seems to still think he's the hero of his own life following his second breakup with Brooke. Who the hell knows what Craig thinks? He's so out of focus after leaving the main cast that it's impossible to know what exactly he feels or doesn't feel for Ellie. Also, all three express themselves in some sort of artistic way. Lucas becomes an author while Miles planned to attend a writing school at the end of Next Class, suggesting he'll also become a writer. Craig was first a photographer, and then most notably a musician, writing his own songs.

2.) This is going to be so brief after the book I wrote about Lucas vs Miles vs Craig, but since I answered the ask about Peyton and Ellie already, I'll mainly say that Ellie is similar to Peyton for reasons I already stated. But also, Grace gives off a similar vibe. Unlike Ellie, Grace isn't afraid to get involved. She's always the first to educate others and the one to speak out about injustice. For one reason or another, both Grace and Peyton were hesitant to put themselves out there and spent most of their lives being extremely guarded. For Peyton, it was the loss of her mother and reluctance to own up to feeling romantic love for Lucas, so used to being in a toxic relationship with Nathan. For Grace, it was her having cystic fibrosis and feeling that it's not even worth it to fully open up to others when she won't live for very long. Apparently Grace's version of Peyton's feelings for Lucas is... Zig?! Which is completely unbelievable, but the writers seemed to want us to think she'd been pining for him all along and she didn't say his name just because he conveniently entered the room at the right moment. Oops, I said I was going to be brief.

3.) As stated before, I believe that Maya and Haley have many similarities. But Haley is also similar to Clare. Haley sets goals for herself, almost always doing the rational and responsible thing rather than being carefree and letting herself experience life as it comes. Clare does the exact same thing. Arguably, their transformations into more relaxed people willing to be impulsive from time to time relate to falling in love for the first time. As much as I don't want to admit it, Eli had the same effect on Clare's life as Nathan did on Haley's. He was someone very unlike her who encouraged her to try new things and put herself out there rather than remaining the same, stagnant person. Granted, I do think Clare was already beginning to embrace new things following her breakup with KC and had become much more confident by the beginning of season 10. But I don't think Eli's effect on Clare's life should be understated. And like Nathan and Haley, Eli and Clare got in extremely deep very quickly, resulting in a pretty emotionally devastating breakup where the girl had to leave the guy due to the timing being wrong and the relationships not being what they should be. That's where the comparisons personally end for me in regards to the relationships. Other than the fact both couples viewed each other as their future. Both Haley and Clare got pregnant during their senior years, throwing their future plans completely off. Haley was able to carry her pregnancy to term, resulting in her raising a son as a barely legal adult. Clare miscarried, losing her son. Also, somehow I almost forgot the fact that both initially wanted to wait until marriage to have sex. Haley technically waited, mostly because she got married at sixteen. Clare didn't, eventually shifting her beliefs enough to feel comfortable having sex in a loving relationship outside of marriage. And with Drew, once. I'm sorry. I still love that.

4.) Miles is such a Nathan to me that I think even their actors, Eric Osborne and James Lafferty, have a similar vibe and mannerisms. I don't know what it is, but it's uncanny to me. To begin with, they're known for being good athletes. Although, Miles being into sports mostly goes away after season 13. He self destructs pretty quickly after that, eventually becoming more interested in things like student council and creative writing. Nathan continues to pursue a career in basketball during every season, first as a player, briefly as a coach, and then later as a sports' agent. Nathan's passion for sports is an integral part of who he is. And obviously, both Nathan and Miles had complicated relationships with their abusive fathers, struggling to live up to their expectations only to never be enough. Both broke free of their dads, choosing to receive validation outside of their families. Nathan found the love and stability he was looking for with Haley. Miles tried multiple times to find this kind of love, and his relationship with Tristan was his longest and most consistent pairing. But they were never anywhere on the same level as Nathan and Haley. In other relationships such as Miles's with Maya or his fling with Lola, either the girl never fully let him in because of her own issues as well as feelings for a guy from her past or because he was settling for something simple that made life easier in the present even though he truly wanted someone else, they didn't work out. This is getting so long. I'm sorry. But other than Miles, Nathan also has similarities to Jimmy. We talked before about this, I think. Jimmy was also under pressure to become a professional basketball player from his father. Much like Dan pretty much demanded Nathan play basketball at all costs, Jimmy's father struggled to accept the reality that Jimmy's life had changed following his paralysis. Both guys ended up in wheelchairs following a violent altercation, though Nathan's was temporary while Jimmy's fate is left ambiguous since we never find out what came of the stem cell surgery. Regardless, Jimmy's mental health following the shooting and negative emotions were rarely ever the focus. He alludes to feeling suicidal and depressed during episodes centered around Craig and Spinner, but by the time we get back into Jimmy's head he's found a way to adjust. Nathan seems to take his accident much harder, remaining in a very negative, depressed headspace for 4+ months, relying heavily on alcohol to cope with his day to day life. Eventually, Nathan just.. kind of snaps out of it. Because he cuts his hair, learns to walk again, and starts helping out with the Ravens, we're meant to infer he's all better. You have to love OTH's hit or miss writing. Lastly, Nathan and Zig are similar in regards to Naley's season 2 arc and Zaya's in Next Class season 1. Both guys are threatened by the girls they love growing closer to a musician who might connect with them on a level they can't reach. Uncomfortable with the challenge to their relationship, both guys grow somewhat possessive and jealous, even briefly asking if they or the music are more important.

5.) It's hard to compare Brooke to any one character. I realize she's basically the archetype of the mean girl who eventually softens up, but there are so many things that make Brooke 'Brooke'. To start with, Manny. Both spent a lot of years allowing boys to define their worth. As a result, they were often shown competing with other girls. Both Brooke and Manny were left with trust issues involving love triangles with their first loves. Brooke spent years overcoming the betrayal of Lucas and Peyton. Manny also took years and multiple, mostly throwaway relationships to get over Craig after he deceived her into believing he'd broken up with Ashley so that they could be together. Honestly, these incidents probably weren't comparable, but I loved Manny too much to question it and Cassie Steele did a really good playing up that subtext. By the time the girls graduate, they've mostly become more confident in themselves, putting their ambitions first. For Manny, it's her acting. For Brooke, it's the fashion line. Both girls faced rejection from their parents. But while Manny was raised by strict parents, resulting her rebellion, Brooke was left almost completely alone, resulting in a similar outcome. Because of this, their best friends (Peyton and Emma) are much more like family than their biological families. In the end, both end up with someone unpredictable who conveniently was linked to their best friend once upon a time. Other than Manny, there's obviously Fiona. Both had an interest in fashion, spent years being a queen bee, and eventually learned a sense of responsibility and stability both by living alone and being on student council.

6.) Degrassi. It's not close.

7.) Ooh okay.

Degrassi:

(1) Zig/Maya

(2) Joey/Caitlin

(3) Sean/Ellie

One Tree Hill:

(1) Nathan/Haley

(2) Lucas/Brooke

(3) Jake/Peyton

Combined:

(1) Zig/Maya

(2) Nathan/Haley

(3) Lucas/Brooke

(4) Joey/Caitlin

(5) Sean/Ellie

(6) Jake/Peyton

8.) My brain broke LOL

Things I prefer about OTH:

(1) Better focus on character development due to having a smaller cast

(2) Stronger love stories. Degrassi was first and foremost a show about messy teenagers. For the first half of the series, no one was endgame. It wasn't until Eclare that the show started to realize that maybe they should service their fans in that way. But on One Tree Hill, a lot of time and energy was dedicated to developing the relationships between Nathan/Haley, Lucas/Brooke, Lucas/Peyton, Brooke/Julian, Jake/Peyton, etc.

3.) Better soundtrack, even though I honestly love Degrassi's too

4.) It has a truly platonic friendship between a male and female character without any romantic past or one of them being gay (Lucas/Haley)

(5) More focus on parent/child dynamics

(6) They never spent a handful of episodes in green screen Paris, dragging down the entire show for like two months straight

Things I prefer about Degrassi:

(1) It's more realistic.

(2) This kind of goes along with #1, but it's a show about teenagers played by actual teenagers. It's a much different experience watching these kids figure things out than it is watching twenty somethings do the same thing.

(3) Representation. I won't pretend like Degrassi is perfect or that it equally distributes focus to queer and POC characters. It doesn't. There's a clear hierarchy, and unfortunately white, straight characters were generally at the center of the story lines. But an attempt was at least made. OTH had an almost all white cast and rarely ever featured any LGBT representation. One of their sole gay characters filmed himself having sex with a woman without her knowledge or consent, then leaked the tape, all to hide his sexuality. So, not the greatest representation.

4.) Degrassi's school shooter was someone who physically abused his girlfriend and displayed many red flags rather than a victim of bullying who suddenly snapped after one too many insults or physical assaults. Sadly, OTH continued to perpetuate the misinformation that most school shootings are committed by kids who are bullied. To be fair, Rick was also bullied, but it wasn't a black and white scenario. Kids weren't just being unfair to him. He came back to the school and seriously asked the friends of the girl he put into a coma for forgiveness.

(5) The characters mostly had limitations and were forced to follow the same rules unlike on OTH where 4/5 of the core five could basically do whatever they wanted. This is one thing that sets Degrassi apart from many other teen dramas.

(6) The friendships were more believable and realistic. While I think there were occasional instances where one friend forgave another too easily, the instances where the friends fell out with one another only to later make up were overall well done and didn't feel forced. Brooke and Peyton, I'm looking at you.

(7) The girls actually seemed to like each other! They could mostly interact without constantly referring to each other as "bitches" and "whores". During moments when the girls would turn on each other, it was being written in a very realistic, true to life way. On One Tree Hill, an entire punchline would be that one girl degraded another.

#mayamatlinscello #Long post #Not my gifs

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