#re: jiang cheng i really enjoy both interpretations of him and wwx as brothers or as two guys who are so weird about each other. | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

jiangwanyinscatmom · 3 years

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From @ednamrenee 's comments that are way too wonderful and insightful to keep to the notes only and I'll try to go point by point with this since there is so much I agree to with this (excuse the messy thoughts as I go)

Lol, and I enjoy hearing the perspectives of those who have a harsher take on JC than me. 😂 I agree with you re: CQL, it definitely didn't seem to know where to put JC's character, which is a shame because he's a very interesting one. I don't mind if CQL-onlies want to that to that version, media consumption being a very personal experience and all that, but if I have to read one more interpretation like JC thought the life-debt between WQ and him was paid..

I do think that it's a detriment to the adaptions closer to the novel and the AU that CQL is to be so heavily tied together into the western fandom. Since they are so different from each other they really can't be compared to each other. The characters are not alike which lends to the very out of place interpretations that become so heavily popular.

...when he got her out of prison, I'm gonna go insane. Never mind that it's not what happened in novel canon (or even donghua canon, I don't remember about the manhua), never mind that it was an added scene to go forth with the one-sided JC/WQ thing, never mind that even if it had been canon, it in no way balances the life-debt JC owed the Wen siblings (and I'm not even considering the golden core transfer, we can't hold over him what he doesn't know).

In terms of the debt he owed even with the awkward romance they tried to make, if it was "payed back" it does not excuse him from essentially hiding that away and letting it be buried under the calls to exterminate all Wens. It does not erase the fact that they had helped, and he chose to just not expand upon this when their safety was at stake out of, I suppose, petty jealousy of Wei Wuxian (I really don't know what CQL was going for with his resentment towards Wei Wuxian since he'd had that since he was young. But, it also makes whatever love he did have for Wen Qing and Wei Wuxian so much more shallow then it was in the novel and starkly more cruel for a character they tried to humanize while keeping the novel points skewing the themes of Jiang Cheng as a character.

It just feels like a sorry understanding of life-debts and that's why culturally huge thing, so...no? Don't do that? It's fine having JC not pay much attention to the debts. It makes him interesting, it makes him coldly pragmatic over valuing even things that his own culture holds dear. It's a great trait, and even a good one for a leader maybe. I am up for JC deviating for the norm when it's about such virtues while WWX sticks to them, and JC wasn't exactly sneering...

Yes! This is Jiang Cheng as a character at his simplest and why I personally find him fascinating! He is pragmatic and cold to a fault that works well in the cultivation world MDZS set up, however, it doesn't work the same in CQL when you have the boogyman story of the Yin Iron as the root of all bad instead. The character actions no longer line up with the theme of the original work since so much emphasis is placed on a piece of metal ruining everything instead of the cruelty of humans alone.

...at the mo dao until it put him in a politically delicate situation. That's fine! Interesting character traits! But like. Fanon perception more often than not strips all of these from him and that's just unacceptable to me. I'm not even going to speak of the entire genocide thing, despite knowing about the innocence of the Wens and how they're just feeble old people and women and children.

The bleed over of CQL trying to make Jiang Cheng softer in his youth made headcanons with no true base for it in his behavior as an adult a lot more muddied. As an adult in any adaption, he's not really shown to have any positive sort of sentimentality towards Wei Wuxian. Certainly with Jin Ling in CQL it implied heavily that he did hit him just like Madam Yu to Wei Wuxian, where at least in the novel he was just... a very aggressively, unkind, cruel uncle that spoiled his nephew and gave in with that cycle of negative action over progressive action (The massive narrative mirror between how Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji raised a child left to them suddenly). He was not sorry for the hand he took in killing the Wens, he blamed them for taking his right hand man away and putting his sect, in what he thought, was unneeded trouble, morals be damned like his mother. Like she had said about Lan Wangji and Jin Zixuan, they stuck their head too high and they brought death upon themselves for talking back to a higher power for acting on their kindness over politics.

(Lol, this got long, sorry!) I absolutely agree that in terms of interpersonal relationships, Jin Ling is the only one with whom Jiang Cheng can begin to grow. The thing about the Yunmeng brothers is that whatever was between them is now tainted by bad blood (quite literally) on both sides, both of them have hurt each, knowingly or unknowingly. Both of them are a source for mental stress for each other, that's canon for any adaptation.

I understand the urge to want a rosier, I guess, take on this. I'm more used to the novel interpretations and neither ever really use the wording of being like family, or brothers, this was left to Jiang Yanli specifically calling Wei Wuxian her brother as the only Jiang to do that. The barrier of their social class is still a backbone of Jiang Cheng's possessiveness in thinking Wei Wuxian was his to order about as a sect leader twisting the innocent promise Wei Wuxian gave. But both don't associate anything positive with the other anymore. Wei Wuxian certainly isn't sentimental for Yunmeng Jiang as a home when he is resurrected or Jiang Cheng. He was planning to run off in the opposite direction of it to start as someone new! That does not read to me as pining or love anymore for the past (and I've written a piece before how CQL sanitized his longing of Lan Wangji solely by replacing it with Lotus Pier want and Jiang Yanli as a parental figure).

Can we not act like "ohh it's just miscommunication, they're both just dumb and horrible at feelings". It's not that simple. MXTX establishes this painstakingly, and just loving someone has never been the point. YZY loved JC too, she still managed to mess up his head. Love isn't the point, which sounds very hurtful I know, but it's also true. Reconciliation after all this bad blood takes a huge amount of emotional labour on both parts.

I can not reiterate enough that love was not the only thing needed between the Yunmeng siblings. None of them really ever understood each other and had different wants. Jiang Cheng never understood Wei Wuxian and his fascination of Lan Wangji out of discomfort. He did not accept whatever was going on there and later used it as shaming fodder. Both have done an unforgivable disservice to the other and really, nothing can mend old hurts as bad as they were. The kindest option is to leave each other alone and move on with a happier life for the self. The codependency of this is more than disturbing when used in reconciliation material especially for Wei Wuxian who was never that and is the one who actively asked for Jiang Cheng to move on, because he does not have the will to extend the effort of rebuilding a relationship anymore. It's a very human response to a broken relationship and not cruel, it just is a realistic view of a bad relationship that always ended for the worst when they tried to talk. Their own ideals are nothing alike and clash, they are not what the other needs and Wei Wuxian by the end of the novel is ready to leave it and move on with others without Jiang Cheng.

And, never apologize for long thoughts! I love it! This is why I very much enjoy interactions on here that are productive. Seriously I am a Jiang Cheng fan, I am just not into the gum drop sweetness for reconciliation. They are a disservice to him and his end that can better him without the crutch of Wei Wuxian there, which is exactly how his resentment spawned in the first place. He has a chance to do better by himself on his own terms, that doesn't need to be ruined with a codependent bond that had been forced and very one-sided in the end and remained as that for 13 years.

#mdzs #mo dao zu shi #jiang cheng #I do love him as the antagonist he is #wei wuxian

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