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chirpsythismorning · 11 months

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Realistically do you still think Milvn will breakup in the first couple of episodes? I feel like the fabdom is focusing on fanon so much at this point that they are missing canon and actual narrative on the show. It seems very unlikely to me for Mvln's breakup taking place in first couple of episodes. But the fandom are still stuk in their previous thoughts and cannot seem to think differently at all and never even consider the possibility of mlvn breakup happening way later on in the next season. Most of the Byler's analyses about El's character has turned out to be wrong. El doesnt seem to be done with the relationship. She still loves Mike (or thinks she does) and she drew strength from his monologue. A mildvn breakup right into S5 does not make any sense canon narrative wise. We can argue that the show was different that the script, while i agree with it to an extent i reaaaly think people are trying way too hard to discredit the writers intention and the script here. El was not angry at Mike. She was sad about Max and Hawkins' situation. 🤷‍♀️

What i am saying is that i feel like most Bylers are misinterpetating what is happening with the narrative here and it leads to unrealistic and baseless expectations for the characters and S5 regarding how Mlvn vs Byler will take place. And i am greatly sorry but i dont think Mike lied in his monologue, like at all. And the situation reads like "Mike loved el romantically but they wont be together bc of incompitability". El is not even still over Mike. And people expect her to be like "i breakup with you bye" right into S5. Mike still has underlining feelings for El. Like... all i am saying is people shouldnt base their expectations on headcanons and fanon misinterpretations.

Lastly, while i really would like a more detailed gay coming of age and sexuality storyline for Mike, realistically going by canon i dont think its happening. Sorry. They will mostly focus on Will's sexuality and coming of age it seems like and Mike will mostly have a "realization" arc where he realizes El and him are not fit for each other and then he decides to be with Will.

Based on the show’s trend of doing break-ups (or at least implied break-ups) early in the season, yes I do think it’s likely that the audience will at least have the impression that Mike and El are broken up early in s5.

That’s based on a technique they have done repeatedly, whereas the assumption that they will break-up midseason is based on what exactly? The Duffers saying that s5 is jumping right back into the action?

I mean, if anything shouldn’t that be an indication that the arcs heavily built up in s4, that were left deliberately unresolved, are going to be dealt with in a timely manner, as opposed to being put on pause and then squished into mid s5, when we’re arguably going to have even more stuff the characters are dealing with? Like, them literally fighting for their lives?

When it comes to Mike’s monologue giving El strength according to the script, this is actually really easy to explain and so I will!

For starters, they did not disclose El's feelings about the monologue in the Piggyback script, bc they released it knowing it would go public, at least two years before s5 is set to actually come out. They would not just throw in a huge spoiler like that, seeing as it was intentionally left unaddressed in s4, with the intention to be addressed in early s5. That’s the whole thing about s4 kind of leaving things so shaky and uncertain, with s5 jumping us right back into that, bc there was just so much set up for all of those dominos to inevitably fall.

To understand Mike’s monologue and its impact on El better, it might help to recall the memory of El’s birth and how her mother’s love is what gave her the strength to defeat Henry the first time in 79’.

I mean look at the lighting of that scene, it’s probably the brightest fucking lighting we’ve ever seen in the entire series (you know what light means... pure, genuine, true love…). And it’s because strength from love is much more powerful than strength from anger. That’s something she is literally throwing back in Henry’s face that day of the massacre, going against what he told her to do and instead using the memory of her mother’s love to beat him.

During Mike’s monologue, we see El using anger to give her strength to finally break free and stop Vecna, all orchestrated by events that Henry has had a role in impacting, meaning he was actively going up against her this second time, all while knowing that in order to actually beat her, she needed to be vulnerable and unable to use love as strength, with her only option being anger. And so what we see is anger about Mike still woefully misunderstanding what she had tried to explain to him earlier in the season, along with watching her best friend be murdered in front of her. And look at the lighting of that scene, she's literally seeing red. The atmosphere is eerily uncertain at best.

This monologue was SOOO necessary for the narrative in order to keep the public away from considering Byler. Because they already don’t want to consider it as it is, and that monologue gives them an excuse not to. You saw how they reacted to the piggyback script? Like it was this huge sigh of relief for them? Meaning that they were having doubts…

The thing is, I have considered the possibility of a mid-season Milkvan break-up. I’ve talked about how waiting until mid-season, something that would be unprecedented bc they’ve never done it before, would be odd considering we will be dealing with vastly different concerns and conflicts by that point.

For them to hold off settling a break-up, that was built up all of s4 (arguably since s3), until mid-s5, would fall flat. If anything jumping right into the action means all the major stuff built-up, but left unaddressed in s4, is what we’re jumping back into.

They need to address those things so that they can move on to the aftermath of all of that and then beyond that. 5 episodes of ignoring that, and then 4 episodes of it happening and processing all of it AND dealing with endgame right as the finale is coming to a close, would be hard to juggle and make satisfying.

The reason they like this approach so much, is because it allows the audience to root for the other option in the love triangle. And with Will getting home-wrecker allegations as it is, a milkvan break-up is extremely necessary this time around as well, especially with byler being endgame and them really wanting us to root for them finally.

How can we do that if the Duffer’s break their own trend of early break-ups and in turn make it difficult for us to root for byler, all while leading on milkvan’s unnecessarily even longer (with no intention of going that route), making it even more unlikely for viewers to accept Byler endgame?

They’ve been building up to this inevitable break-up since s3, with s4 ending in a way that made it sort of obvious El is not happy with Mike and with Mike clearly struggling with something.

Are we just going ignore the implications of the inevitable painting reveal or the fact that Mike called El ‘his’ superhero (the most insulting thing he could do honestly, least of all during a love confession) at the end of s4, and have that confrontation be stretched out? For what? El hasn’t even responded to it or told us her side at all? She told Mike she missed him and that’s it… That’s all we’ve got. Like, let her speak and actually say how she feels about their fight in her room and the events at Surfer Boy and everything leading up to this inevitable moment for them.

While Mike and El didn’t outright break up in s4, there was heavy implications of it, and that was for a reason. They wanted us to watch those Will and Mike scenes throughout the season and see something more. Even though it didn’t end with a kiss between them, nor them officially getting together, they still did it because they wanted us to interpret those scenes as romantic comfortably. That's also why they kept Mike and El seperate at the end of s4, because they wanted us to look at Mike and Will in a way that made us go 🫣🫣🫣 at the very least.

Now, if s5 is leading to Byler endgame, just imagine how much more important it is to make it really clear that Mike and El aren’t happening?

Another even more important reason to have break-ups early in a season in general, is to allow the overall season to have a vibe that is cohesive as it’s own entity. Major stuff happens at the beginning and major stuff happens at the end, with the middle making up the overall vibe and feeling they want us to subscribe to the whole time, with certain pairings being constant that time more than the end/beginning. It makes more sense for us to root for byler most of the season, the whole middle, and for the first time at the end now as well, while letting go of El and Mike early on, even if it’s ambiguous like it was in the previous season. Personally I think the prospects of a dump your ass parallel are high… (can we do something interesting and fun like speculate how the break up would go down? Will it be angsty? Will it be lighthearted? Like I want to see all of those hot takes bc that's actually something that is more fun to think about than the 'when').

I know some people are here because they love romances or love queer romances and just enjoy shipping in general, but I’m genuinely here bc Byler makes sense based on all that stuff you would probably consider to be reaching. That stuff is the best part to me. So, if you don’t like others doing that, then consider muting those that you deem as people ‘misinterpreting the narrative’, again, according to you.

At the end of the day you can believe whatever you want to believe.

This idea that it’s okay to tell other people they are wrong and have baseless claims, all while ignoring the actual evidence they are presenting… Like I mean this just comes off like Milkvan’s telling Bylers they’re delusional for considering Mike and Will as being a possibility at all. If you have to constantly use, it’s not that deep as your core argument after being presented with evidence, while only yourself giving maybe one or two reasons at most for why your interpretation makes the most sense, then you’re probably not actually open to considering things based on evidence. You want to believe what you want to believe and you're projecting onto others for not following along with it.

Especially when it comes to the whole Mike having a coming of age story or whatever, where some fans have tried to make the argument that there is nothing to support that, when that actually couldn’t be further from the truth. Bylers have provided heaps of evidence. If all of that is not enough for you, that’s something that you have to contend with at this time. Just like us believing what we believe based on evidence we’ve gathered is our concern and something we have to deal with, not you. No need to apologize! Just try to worry about your own interpretation of things and feeling confident in that, but without having to tear down others' because they don’t subscribe to yours interpretation of things.

Because I feel like it would honestly be a lot more humiliating to insist other peoples theories are wrong and they’re only going to embarrass themselves in the end, only for that person saying that to end up being wrong… Everyone is making theories and everyone is bound to be wrong about some or even most. That's okay. That's natural. That's sort of an unwritten part in the agreement we all agree to by participating in this theorizing in fandom experience.

When it comes to Mike again and his arc, I always say this, but it really comes down to this more than anything.

Finn is 2nd top billed among the kids. He used to be THE top billed among the kids for s1-3, but then he got bumped down behind Millie in s4. There is a major possibility, that Noah is going to be ranked up, with him going from being paired up with Sadie, under Gaten and Caleb, to be bumped up under Finn with them sharing a title card. Though it’s unlikely they would rank Finn down under Noah, who was not even in the opening credits of s1, while he was the first name that season and the following two, meaning Finn's character Mike needs to live up to that top billed spot right behind Millie. He needs to have an arc on his own that is equally as substantial as Will and El's arcs, and separate from them just like theirs will have aspects that are separate from Mike as well.

Because Mike was the protagonist of the first season, he HAS to be important again in a similar vein in the end for the show to work as an overall five part story. When people go back to rewatch after s5, they are going to be met with Mike front and center. That will only be satisfying if we get genuine insight into his character in the final season, beyond the surface level.

Quite honestly, ALL of the kids deserve something deeper than what you are implying for Mike, and so applying that to him, the og protagonist, is just so absurd to me. If anyone is going to come out with a surprising arc we’re not expecting, it’s Mike. The audience is already not expecting Will to actually get the boy, that's the aspect that they aren't prepared for for Will, and so what about Mike's unexpected reveal?

Literally most of the audience doesn’t even think there is the slightest possibility Mike could be queer. You don’t think that warrants some addressing and unpacking…? You know… because he never really unpacked…?

I feel like people hear me say Mike is going to be important in s5 and go oh so you don’t think Will is the main character?? And it’s like?? Honestly my answer is yes and no. I think Will is literally the spine, the heart, or whatever you want to call it. In Finn's own words, he is the reason that everything happens and he is the most important character arguably, because of how important he is in terms of all of these events taking place throughout the series.

However, Mike is at the forefront from the very beginning and we arguably see everything from his eyes in s1 and 2 more than anyone else. But that goes away in s3-4. And that felt extremely intentional based on what is about to go down (byler endgame). You can tell that by doing this, they are trying to lead up to a reveal that brings him back to his original place in the story for the audience to see him as his most authentic self again, and with answers for why we lost that insight in between.

I could count up at least 20 Easter eggs hinting at Mike being in danger/targeted, which goes all the way back to the first episode of the series.

This isn't even considering, that another trend they’re likely to bring back in s5, bc if they don’t they’d be breaking a series long trend, is Mike being late. He starts every season late. And so, what is Mike going to be late for this time? Could it have something to do with all of the unknowns about him that are yet to be addressed?

I think that sometimes we say that something isn’t going to happen because we don’t want it to. A lot of this stuff I’m saying happening isn’t based on feelings, it’s based on actual evidence.

If you don’t want certain things to happen because of x, y, z, you can just say that is the case instead of making arguments that there is nothing supporting it, when that’s not actually true?

Like nothing? Nothing at all? Baseless? Like, be serious rn.

ST5 is very likely going to give off s1-2 vibes. While Mike is going to be less in the background compared to s3-4, Will AND El are still going to have equal, if not more attention than him, bc I do believe that their bond is what is going to also be a part of saving Hawkins.

The ending is going to be surprising bc those primary color-coded bitches are the answer to it all. If me saying that upsets anyone because it goes against their interpretation of things, I'm sorry too I guess!

#byler #stranger things #st5 speculation #pls go make theories of your own and have fun #if people don't subscribe to your theories #maybe don't assume everyone else is wrong #like is that really the only possibility here #i mean we all technically agree bylers are right about byler being endgame..#so they have a record for at least being close to being right because they're paying close attention to the details #i feel like using 'all bylers think this' as like a dig or some sort of attempt at discrediting a theory is sort of weak #a lot of people probably like something because it makes sense...#is that always the case?#no obviously not #still calling bylers delusional is so triggering like come on now why are we using milkvan methods #stop even implying bylers delusional #even if it's out of love #embrace the delusion #and let people be responsible for their own emotions if they're right/wrong in s5 #this is a tv show #we'll all be okay either way #but along the way lets not make play it off like we care for other people's feelings all while basically telling them they're stupid...#be confident in your interpretation and leave it at that

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strangertheories · 2 years

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How do you feel about how Will and Robin were handled in Volume 2...

Oh boy do I have opinions and they aren't good ones. Especially on Will (you'll see my rant in a second). I'll start off with Robin. In S4, Robin got a decent amount of screentime and we got to see some new sides to her character and understand her a bit better, which I appreciated. Volume 2, she had a lot less screentime but overall I don't think she was sidelined too much. Unlike a certain character I'll talk about in a second.

I thought her scene with Vickie was cute enough. But Vickie isn't really an established character beyond being bi and awkward. I really wish they'd explore her character more but right now she just feels like a Robin clone who exists to say "we have a bisexual character". Bisexual representation is very important and deserves to be more than a character with a limited personality and no development as well as no screentime. I'd have much preferred bi Nancy but that's obviously not going to happen as I think the writers would explode if they had to write her character without involving men.

And then there's Will... Oh god there's Will. I love his character so much. I've spoken a lot about how he got me through a tough time when I realized I was gay and how meaningful seeing the struggle of feeling left out because you don't like the opposite sex. But we don't know if he actually doesn't like the opposite sex. It's "up for interpretation" apparently. Is he gay and miserable? Or is he an immature third wheel who needs to grow up and like girls? You decide! It's like choose your own adventure, only shittier.

Why did they say they were going to clarify his sexuality? That it would be addressed? That was such a lie! He never said he liked Mike. He never said he was gay. Instead we got Noah Schnapp tearing up a lot and heavy subtext. Now the Duffers may think that the vast majority of people watching it will know he is gay, and I think that's true. But you know that there are people on Twitter and Reddit right now saying that "he's not gay, he just misses his friend. He feels different because he hasn't matured and liked girls yet! You're delusional to see yourself in him. Will Byers is not gay, stop forcing every character to be gay. It's the 80s anyways so it's super unrealistic."

You see a chunk of the audience are desperate for Will to be straight. They're not homophobic, they just don't get why everything has to be gay (/s). And unless you make it really explicit, they're not going to believe he is gay. Which really sucks. I saw myself a lot in Will and canon confirmation would've made me really happy at that time. And I'm sure many more people will see themselves in him too. And I don't want people saying this to be told they're forcing him to be gay or feel afraid to say Will is gay despite the fact that he clearly is. Queer representation is not the kind of thing you can just imply because there are people out there who unless you say it very explicitly will still maintain that he is straight.

That's not to even mention the sidelining of his character. This season, Will got barely any screentime and what he did was him looking teary eyed at Michael Wheeler romancing the girl he loves sooo much. And I know in S5 he'll probably get more now that he's a spy for the Upside Down or whatever. And I know he'll get a coming out in that season too. But I don't know why he didn't come out now? That scene with Johnathan would've made so much sense from a writing stand point but again we get heavily implied sexuality issues.

I was never hopeful for Byler, because I'm a huge pessimist. But I thought at least Will was going to get confirmed as gay. Because they told us that he would. They lied to us. So as much as I loved volume 2, I'm feeling pretty disappointed, but also I'm feeling angry and like I've been tricked somehow.

Damn that was a long rant. Thanks for the ask, anon (:

#stranger things #stranger things four #byler #st4 #will byers #stranger things analysis #robin buckley #byeler #ronance #rant #st4 volume 2 #st4 spoilers

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ohfallingdisco · 1 year

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I’ve been scrolling on the byler tag and like I don’t understand something.

why is it delusional for Mike and Will to have similar internalized homophobia or similar queer stories. Straight characters literally have similar and/or the same stories.

And besides it’ll never be the same experiences between them.

While Will had Lonnie and the bullies making him feel like being queer is wrong, he was also surrounded by Joyce and Jonathan who made him feel like being different is good. I mean his speech in the van to Mike, saying that Mike makes him feel like being different is a good thing and that it makes him fight on. so yes, Will has internalized homophobia but it’s the 80s, im sure even Robin has it too. Like it was basically shamed if you were queer, who wouldn’t have internalized homophobia.

Mike had his dad and the bullies too making him feel like being queer will get you killed or that it’s a bad thing. Except he didn’t have a older sibling to tell him that it’s okay to be different because Nancy was going through something similar with how she thought she had to act a certain way. And his mom, though she told him in s1 that he can tell her anything and had a queer coded scene, she hasn’t since after. So he’s gonna have some internalized homophobia no matter what. But unlike Will he doesn’t have the side that tells him it’s okay and even better being different. So he conforms to the society norms and hides that part of himself, and even to himself he hides it. But in s4 he has Eddie. Someone had pointed out this so credits to them, that Eddie made Mike feel like being different, liking D&D and not conforming to the norms is cool. I mean Eddie’s speech about how “forced conformity is what’s killing the kids” probably wasn’t the first time he brought it up. And we even see it in Mike’s clothes. He finding out who he is and not hiding so much from it.

All to say is, everyone is allowed to think what they want about a character. What I don’t like seeing is people saying it’s delusional to think that Mike and Will are on similar queer storylines.

Why is it delusional??

They aren’t the same story anyways. They definitely would parallel each other but it’s different. parallel doesn’t mean exactly exactly the same. it’s just similar.

seriously. we need to stop throwing around the words crazy delusional or even weird, because like at the end of the day we all agree that Mike is queer. and that Byler is endgame.

we keep saying we all can have our own opinions and then see posts that call eachother delusional or weird. Like stop.

we’re not even fighting about different things. It’s like we’re yelling at eachother but we agree on things.

Oh anon, you and me both, I completely agree

I’ve seen people get really defensive about any other characters mirroring Will’s story, which I think I understand where they’re coming from when they say stuff like “he’s the only one with X trauma so don’t take it from him,” but also—a lot of queer people grow up with similar experiences? And he’s not the only queer character we have anymore. Their stores all parallel each other, even if they are wildly different.

Will is gay, in love with his best friend, a young teenager figuring himself out, has experienced homophobia onscreen, and has found one or more outlets for negative feelings as a result of his queerness.

In addition to, all under 18:

Robin, a lesbian, who likes someone from band she’s been shown to be very friendly with, and has shown expectation of homophobia onscreen—and has verbally expressed fear over being outed to the wrong person. Steve has narratively and thematically been built to be her queer support by s4: he’s not going through the same problems as she is, but he loves her unconditionally and supports her for who she is.

Vickie, heavily implied to be bisexual or somewhere under that umbrella, whose boyfriend was someone she wanted to go to a weapons store of all places with, and who now likes Robin now, a girl from band she’s been shown to be very friendly with and interested in getting along with. Her experiences with homophobia are more subtle, but we see her really jittery when it’s hinted she could be queer. I say that counts. Her queer support comes most obviously in the pb&j talk with Robin at the end of s4, though she seems well-adjusted enough to reasonably have more, honestly.

And, Mike—surprise!—follows the pattern, too. I personally think it makes the most narrative sense with the queercoding established if he was gay, but bi Mike and other interpretations are valid and cool, too. We agree he’s in love with his best friend, of course, and from the very first season, we saw Troy and his squad targeting most of their taunts about Will being a “fairy” etc. at Mike, and anti-gay propaganda being spread avidly around him. His queer support, like you said, despite the few others who’ve offered, was definitely Eddie. S4 was the first time we’ve seen Mike openly embracing his true self, and his one episode in Hawkins carried queer Mike being happy for most of the show. Of course, Will would’ve probably loved to have been support for Mike, but he has no clue Mike is queer, obviously.

So, yeah, that’s a long-winded way to say I agree lol. Straight cis allosexual people even go through a lot of the same experiences during adolescence, so why would it be any different for queer people? Hell, honestly, with the way the show’s going, I wouldn’t be surprised if we got queer Henry Creel in flashbacks, too.

I really appreciate the ask!! You’ve clearly thought about this and brought some really interesting points to the table, so cheers for that lol. I don’t know why there’s so much division about queer experiences needing to be totally different for them to be unique, but hopefully people will come around soon. Frustration is normal, but it always ends eventually, in good situations.

I don’t know how much I answered your question, exactly, but hope this was at least entertaining anon lmao 💜

#ask #queer experience #stranger things parallels #will is will and every other queer character is themselves but their uniqueness doesn’t mean they haven’t shared experiences <3

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kaypeace21 · 2 years

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did u say u wanted will byers to be a prostitute and get aids? bc someone on twitter is saying u did but never posted proof so we don’t know what to believe…

They show no proof for their claims - cause it never happened. They're lying.

They've made up at least 3 lies about me. Including the one you mentioned...

It's a blatant lie- which I already adressed was false , previously (here) . This fabrication is linked to their own homophobia and hate towards Will, as a character. It's really disgusting how they continuous peddle this lie over and over about me . Also , think about it... what gay "Will stan" would want that to happen to Will? Like really????

No hate to you anon. But how could I be a fan of Will + a "delusional byler stan" + want that?? It makes no sense-

Full transparency: they're using an old post from years ago as "proof "that isnt even proof. I regret and don't believe in that post anymore . I stated as such in the past. But the post said I thought maybe Will would be implied to be a player like billy? Given all the parallels of Will/billy and how the s4 films corelate that behavior to queer csa vicitms . But I went back to believing my 1st theory: Will is too traumatized to be with anyone romantically at the moment. And I was embarrassed of that post and theory,and regret it . But again never mentioned Will getting h*v/a*ds ever!!! or Will becoming a prost*tute. The only thing I've ever said about Will is he's possibly a csa victim because of lonnie's ab*se . Regardless of his past ,he wouldn't be a "pr*stitute" but a child and v*ctim!

The h*v one is the most offensive to me - as a gay women who was also a csa vicitm . The fact I'm open about these 2 facts: makes alot of bullies try to lie and claim I said things I never did: mostly they smear me using things they think will tr*gger me... knowing how I relate to these subjects. It's like how I get hate messages about being autistic. Sad but true.

Old Link addressing their lies here- cause I already discussed their smears more elequently there. And frankly ,discussing this bully is tiring. I'd rather not give her my attention . Last time i adressed their h*v lies- they just posted multiple NEW posts trying to spread that lie further. They even made up 2 new lies too, after I adressed the 1st h*v lie . 🙄

There's also a huge chance me saying this: will cause them to fabricate even more lies.

But since we're here

I guess I should adress the other lies too...

( they falsely claimed I "ignored Jonathan's tra*ma with lonnie and claimedmed I said jonathan would be ab*sive like lonnie" ).

I never said that. I even did multiple analyses about jonathan's tra*ma in relation to lonnie and never once implied he'd be like lonnie. If anything i said the opposite of what they're claiming. I said that jonathan wouldn't be like lonnie ,despite the ab*se (and break the cycle). *But they know that- so they claim i said the opposite ...to try and get under my skin.

Despite me ignoring them ( never talking to or about them), and not even having a Twitter. Heck , I don't mention their name, cause unlike them- I don't like inciting hate mobs. I'm just not the bullying type... and won't resort to their level.

Also ,not a big deal but i never did say stuff about jargyle ... like I honestly just laugh that accusation off.

There's probably more lies I missed ... but you get it.

Have a good day anon. Sorry , if I came across as aggressive. I just dont want to waste my time anymore addressing or thinking about this bully. I'm not the only one they smeared or attacked- prob won't be the last . I'd rather ignore this person and all the drama they cause .Just because I live "rent free in their head" doesn't mean I should waste my energy on them. We should all just stop giving them attention, honestly.

Update: shock so I've been told minutes after this post - she's bringing up old posts from like 3 years ago ,I guess? That i've already said i dont believe anymore. And she's saying stuff about really old posts completely out of context , to distort the meaning, and twist it to smear me as a horrible person. Similar to what I said she's already done. Don't even want to look. This just proved my point . This is why I ignore her- she's obsessed with me . So I won't be addressing questions about her again. She's not worth any of our time -_-

#will byers #stranger things #byler #jonathan byers

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itsonlystrange · 3 years

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I’d like to point out that the “it’s all just a bunch of coincidence” argument is very poor. People say that about anything they don’t like. If we’re using this argument then I could say that everytime Mileven accidentally held hands or touched or any of that lovey dovey stuff that the Mileven fandom goes nuts over is a coincidence, but I have 0 evidence that it’s a coincidence, I’m just saying it is because that’s how I, a biased person on the side of byler, sees it. And I love the Milevens that actually respect us, it’s just the toxic ones that stomp on us or rain on our parade that irritate me.

So I ask skeptical Milevens, why do you think it’s all a coincidence? Because the Duffers have gone on record multiple times saying that nothing in their show is a coincidence, so it’s odd of you to assume that it is, when that goes against everything the duffers have said.

I see a lot of people claim that all of Bylers very romantic coded scenes are just coincidences with out any real evidence solely because they want them to be coincidences.

Reminder that the duffers had to write, revise, have Noah and Finn read at the table read, rehearse, and then film all of Bylers romantic coded scenes. And do you seriously believe that nobody stepped up and said, “Hey, I think some people will start to ship this if you make your two male characters hold hands and look at each others lips.” Like on paper, that sounds romantic. And on screen, it looks romantic too! If the duffers didn’t want byler to be shown as romantic they wouldn’t have put all of that effort into Mike and Will’s romanticly coded scenes in season two. And sure, one could say they were oblivious and didn’t realize that this relationship could be seen as anything more than romantic and that one of their 100 other writers and revisors and producers didn’t step up and say “Is this really what we want to be conveying in this show when they’re just supposed to be friends?” (Which I doubt. The duffers and everyone else on the writing crew knew exactly what they were implying. And if the duffers themselves didn’t, I HIGHLY doubt that someone didn’t step up and point out how romantic some of these scenes are, especially considering multiple of their writers are apart of the lgbtq community which makes it highly more likely that someone would have realized as I’m sure their gay senses are much stronger than those of the cishet writers on the squad. ) However, byler kind of blew up after season two, so if ST didn’t mean for Mike and Will’s relationship to be seen as more than platonic, then why did they continue doing it in season three? And the thing is, we’re not “delusional” for thinking this. Hundreds of thousands of millions of people have pointed this out across all platforms. It stops being a problem with us and “seeing what we want to see” when millions of people see the same, and it becomes the writers problem for even implying that in the first place.

Here’s an example: take Lucas and Dustin. Sure, there are definitely people out there that think or head canon as either as gay, but not nearly as big of a community as the Byler community. The reason is: Lucas and Dustin don’t have queer coding. They haven’t been painted the same way as Mike and Will’s relationship has. Or Jonathan, yeah, people may head canon as him as gay, or even think he actually is, but he doesn’t have any evidence that really points up to the fact that he is, or that he could be.

The duffers aren’t stupid. They wouldn’t have written byler this way if they didn’t want people shipping it. The official ST writer account has acknowledged byler multiple times, before st3 even started filming. They knew what they were doing. If their goal was to portray Mike and Will as a simple platonic friendship, and that all of their queer coded scenes in st2 were just a coincidence, why would they continue to do it in season 3? Queer baiting is real, yes. However like I said before, the st writing team has a lot of queer and lgbtq+ members themselves, not sure why they would want to queer bait when they’re gay/lesbian/bisexual themselves.

The truth is, byler would have never made it this far if it wasn’t meant to be shipped and portrayed like more of a romantic relationship than a platonic one. They would have shut it down awhile ago. They wouldn’t be so ominous about it. Noah and Finn wouldn’t constantly dodge questions about it unless they legally weren’t allowed to answer them. The duffers wouldn’t have been so vague in the ending of season 3 or in any interviews regarding season 3 about byler. Mike and Will wouldn’t have gotten a whole segment in the official ST book, they wouldn’t have held hands! Seriously! They held hands. Did someone seriously not point out how non platonic that was?———

And use the excuse all you want, “Will was just scared. That’s why Mike held his hand.” Okay, well Max and Lucas held hands when they were both scared in the exact same episode but I guess that doesn’t count because they’re a boy and a girl and Mike and Will are two boys. ———-And it’s funny because you KNOW that if Mike promised to go crazy together with El, that would he in every Milevens Instagram bio, it’d be on merchandise, it’d be everywhere. If Mike said meeting El was the best thing he’s ever done, people would be going bat shit crazy over how romantic that is and how they’re so in love. If Mike and El fought and he ran out in the middle of the rain looking for her when he couldn’t even apologize to his real girlfriend who dumped him just hours prior, people would say that Mike was in love with El and how much he cares about her yadda yadda. But that’s the thing. It’s two boys, so apparently it has to be platonic. Because that’s just how it works in their cishet minds. ——I’d like to see a better argument then “it was all a coincidence.” Because that’s not valid. Why? Why do you think it’s all a coincidence? It’s all just fake? Please. Elaborate. Because if these romantic scenes involved Mike and El instead of Mike and Will, then they’d see. Because they didn’t have Finn and Noah rehearse all these romantic coded scenes multiple times for nothing. They literally wrote, revised, edited, rehearsed, and filmed ALL of these scenes and still went through with it. And even in season three when people really started shipping byler, they STILL directed Finn and Noah to look at eachothers lips. They still filmed the rain fight. KNOWING byler shippers existed and KNOWING this would only heighten the amount of byler shippers there are.

The duffers aren’t stupid. This isn’t a surface level show. Everything they do is intentional, they’ve said it themselves. And yes, I agree that some byler proof COULD just be apophenia, but stuff like this? Crazy together? Looking at eachothers lips? Holding hands? I’m the only one that cares about Will? Mike keeping his eyes open in the final Mileven kiss, those aren’t small little things. You’re telling me that they couldn’t find another take for that final Mileven kiss? No. Finn kept his eyes open because he was directed to do so. The duffers are writers and directors for a reason. They went to school for this. So please, I’d like to see some actual argument against byler other than “they said they loved eachother!” “It’s all a coincidence!” I’d like to see people actually counter my arguments with actual evidence. Not just “Finn says they’re in love” not just “Millie ships it!” Because interviews are not evidence. They’re instructed to create hype for the show. If David can lie about hopper being dead, Finn and Millie can lie about Mileven being in love. I don’t want the argument of “it’s been built up for 3 seasons so they won’t destroy it now.” Stancy was built up for 2 seasons and see how that turned out. And Mileven fell more in season three than it went up.

Anyways,, if you’re a polite Mileven, this isn’t for you. I love you with my whole heart. If you’re just vibing, I love you. Ship what you want to ship! Feel free to counter my argument! However, If you’re someone who calls us “delusional”, leave. The doors right there. The cast has talked about how much they hate the ship wars in our fandom, so if you’re just gonna say how stupid we are, don’t let the door hit you on the way out:)

Sorry for long post lol. Love you all

#stranger things #byler #will byers #mike wheeler #st4 #byler is endgame

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willthecleric · 5 years

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Why I am now 100% convinced that Mike is gay with internal homophobia, deeply in love with Will, and using Eleven as a projection

Okay, so before I start this post, I want to say that this isn’t just me being a mad Byler shipper angry about Mileven. This is me looking at subtext within the show (and especially S3) and analyzing from there. I’ve done a lot of rewatching certain scenes and looking into things deeper. I’ve also discussed quite a bit of this stuff with @kaypeace21 and we agree on pretty much everything.

For the longest time I thought Mike was BISEXUAL with a crush on El, projecting it as being way more than it was (because the dude went from 0 to 60). S3... S3 convinced me that Mike is not bisexual after all... I am now 100% convinced that he is GAY and suffering from internal homophobia (seriously, looking at his actions in S3 puts his ‘oocness’ and over the top behaviour in S2 into a lot better perspective). WILL’S behaviour also makes a lot more sense when you look at him as being gay and deeply in love with Mike (I won’t get too much into that though, because most of the fandom already believes that he is gay and in love with Mike).

Before I go into things properly, I would like to say that I am not implying that Mileven doesn’t love each other... They do. What I feel is that they love each other PLATONICALLY (El might have a bit of a crush on Mike, but mostly I think she gets confused).

Season One

Okay, so there wasn’t a lot of Byler in S1 - it was more Mileven based, but still. There WAS Byler content there. To start with, I would like to say that... I don’t really buy Mike’s crush on El. It feels... weird and forced. It never really felt RIGHT to me, and I never really saw the chemistry. It was weird.

Now, a lot of people say that Mike wasn’t THAT determined to get Will back in S1... I disagree. I actually think that he and Joyce were the ones that were the most determined to get him back... in the sense that they NEVER GAVE UP ON HIM (Mike and Joyce are actually paralleled A LOT. Like... A LOT. When it comes to WILL - as in they BOTH LOVE HIM DEEPLY). MIKE was the one who organized the search party after Hopper told them not to. MIKE was the one who was most visibly upset when talking to Hopper in the first place (boy looked like he wanted to cry and seemed really annoyed by Lucas and Dustin bickering). MIKE was the one who noticed immediately when Will wasn’t at school and thought it was strange. MIKE also was the one who most adamantly denied that Will was dead. I don’t think he even processed his death tbh. His reaction was... weird. He seemed to be more mad at El for lying to him than sad that Will was gone. And we know Mike loves Will a lot so it’s not that he didn’t care. He cared A LOT. He just... could not process it properly. And then AFTER SEEING WILL’S BODY JUST BEFORE... he heard Will on the radio (with pretty bad reception) and IMMEDIATELY knew it was Will. Like... in no seconds flat he was alert. And that boy clung to the hope. He didn’t even think he was losing his mind or anything. He KNEW it was Will because he never processed that he was dead. He even said when he saw the body in the first place that it COULDN’T BE WILL.

Lucas was determined too and I give him lots of love for it... Dude is BRAVE and LOYAL and risked his life. But he also was way more accepting that Will was dead than Mike and Joyce.

And as far as Eleven in all this... Mike was IMMEDIATELY physically attracted to her. As soon as he saw her. While she not only looked like a BOY, but looked a lot like WILL. Seriously El and Will look similar! Hopper EVEN CONFUSED THEM FOR PART OF S1. That was deliberate I think, and clearly not because of Willel because Willel was never really developed. Mike only actually ADMITTED that she was pretty when she dressed like a girl, but he also started sending her heart eyes... like really quickly. When he barely knew her at all. It was... weird. And forced. I think he started seeing her as a projection for his love for Will (S3 strongly implies this to be the case). Naturally all of this was subconscious. Pretty much the whole series so far this boy is in denial. And a lot of people think Mike put El before Will... I disagree. Mike DID go to look for El, but keep in mind... EL COULD LOCATE WILL. At that point Mike was convinced he had a crush on her, but WILL was his priority. He KNEW El was crucial to finding Will. Think about this... they run charging into the gate... and end up in an Upside Down version of Hawkins with no real idea where Will is and a monster on the loose. Using El to find him was IMPORTANT. Notice how Mike was immediately back to wanting Will located as soon as she was with them again. How he wasn’t prioritizing her getting exhausted over her trying to find him. He even referred to her as someone they could use to find Will... multiple times. AND he told her that they could go to the Snow Ball when WILL WAS BACK. Mike didn’t forget about Will. Mike prioritized him! AND when they were in the hospital after Will was back... MIKE was the only person who was awake the whole time, eager to see Will, he was the first person in the room (that boy RAN and usually he can’t run for shit), and he put his head over his heart like he was checking he was still alive. People can interpret this as friendship... but I think S2 and S3 greatly contradicts this.

Season Two

I won’t touch upon this one too much, because it has been done to death... but this is the BYLER season. It was everywhere. And not in a platonic sense! Mike was... over the top protective of Will the entire time, and very affectionate. In ways that he is with no one else. I don’t think he ever was even like that with El. and there are SO MANY PARALLELS. With pretty much every ship that has been in the series. There are loads of examples. Most of the parallels were with Mileven... and I used to think that was a hint to Mike being bisexual... but now I think it is a hint to the LOVE TRIANGLE, not his sexuality. Mike was just... REALLY clingy to Will. He was basically attached to him the entire time AND they had a bunch of ‘romantic’ scenes.

Now, as far as El goes... Mike was WAY OVER THE TOP. Like... it was crazy. Very excessive (kind of like his behaviour in S3 but in a different way). At the end of S1 he was sad and missed her... but like a year later... he was... just too much. He was OBSESSED with El. I always found it really weird. I get that they ‘connected’ but Mike was acting like she was everything he needed in life when he BARELY KNEW HER. And his never giving up on her? He called her every night and that is great. He is a loyal boy... but he did WAY MORE for Will in S1. Mike... thinks he sees her outside his window, but instead of looking for her in the woods (the logical place he could go, where he could find her), he mopes around and acts emo. When Will was in another dimension he did more. Also Mike heard Will on the radio and was right back into action... but he saw El and just thought he was being delusional. He also stopped calling her when Will was in trouble. I’m not saying this like Mike doesn’t care about El. I’m saying that Mike prioritizes Will when need be. He cared for El, but mostly she was someone who he could project his love for Will upon. He could be with her and have a heterosexual relationship and be ‘in love’. This was SUBCONSCIOUS of course. No way would Mike EVER do that knowingly. He isn’t like that. And when El was back... he was SUPER over the top about her. Like.. this guy has convinced himself he is in love with her despite barely knowing her. At all. And his looks at her are so FORCED.

Look at Mike’s ‘soft looks’ towards Will in comparison. They are a lot more natural.

Season Three

A lot of people think that S3 is pretty much the end of Byler, but I disagree. I think actually S3 confirms for sure that they are in love. I mean... to me it is so obvious. And it explains their behaviour SO WELL. I mean look at Will. That boy was incredibly jealous of El. He had no problem with Dustin and Lucas having girlfriends, but Mike??? Will got REALLY pissy and there were multiple times he looked upset over Mileven.

And Mike? WOW. S3... is when I KNEW he most certainly had to be gay for ANY of his behaviour to make sense. Mike.. was an ass. Definitely. BUT I think there was a reason for his attitude - not justifying it, just explaining it.

What started me off with wondering was @kaypeace21 posting analyses on Mike’s behaviour and... they made A LOT of sense to me. (They can be found here and here). People can easily dismiss this... but I actually think it is wrong to. I mean... Look at Mike’s behaviour in S3. How he treats both EL and WILL especially.

Mike is... distant with Will while he also still clearly loves him deeply. He isn’t visibly affectionate with him anymore, but look at how he was with him in the theater... SOFT and concerned like usual. Look at him after he upset Will during the DnD game. Wasn’t he MORE upset over that than he was over lying to El and hurting her? When he is supposed to be madly in love with El? That... makes no sense. A lot of people think Mike doesn’t care anymore, but I think he is actually realizing that he is in love with Will and is trying to squash it. Notice now, when they are GOING THROUGH PUBERTY (you know... a time when you really get a better sense of your sexuality) he is suddenly being off with Will. Will who he is used to be very affectionate with and had no issues with. Now he isn’t really like that anymore. And he is suddenly wanting to act VERY hetterosexual.

Maybe because he has internalized homophobia???

See how he is with El. It’s... not at all how he was with her in S1 and S2. I think it’s because now he is going through puberty and El is going through puberty... and she looks more and more like a WOMAN. I think Mike’s obsession with her was breaking because it became A LOT harder for him to convince himself he was in love with her because she was looking less and less ‘boyish’. I mean... look at his behaviour. He was being a dick. And sexist. I strongly believe that he was trying to emulate the heterosexual relationships of his friends and the feelings that they had... but he was overcompensating for it. And acting too much like I AM A BOY WHO LIKES GIRLS. I AM IN LOVE WITH EL!

This is also why Mike was REALLY going hard with how much he loves El in public... When the Byers moved he was really going with it when they were in the group, but when they were alone he didn’t act sad really. Then they were outside again and he was being lovey dovey. Isn’t that more proof that he is trying to convince everyone else that he loves her?

All they really did was kiss. He barely got to know her more as a person and didn’t like her going outside in the world. He saw her more as a possession. He wanted to be with her romantically but he DIDN’T KNOW HOW TO. And then he tried emulating the people around him and took it a step further. He went way too far. Even CHARACTERS IN THE SERIES thought it was over the top. I think... Mike was trying REALLY HARD to convince both himself AND everyone else that he was in love with El. Just look at that cabin scene. Mike went crazy there, said he loved El... and everyone reacted strangely. And then MIKE reacted strangely too. It was like he had NO IDEA why he said that. AT ALL. Then in the store when he was trying to confess to her... I’m sorry but I don’t buy AT ALL that he was nervous. He was... way too over the top and forced and I could literally feel him forcing himself with it. Like wow. He was really going hard while not being able to express how he felt. AND he said that to him love makes you CRAZY. (like this, perhaps???) Interesting that of ALL the sayings he could come up with, it was that love makes you CRAZY. There are loads of sayings about love, but to him it’s going CRAZY WITH SOMEONE.

Also... when Mike told El that she was ‘the most important thing in the world’ to him, the tone was weird. Honestly I think he was trying to convince himself that it was true. His speech to Will was a lot more honest and heart felt. I think Mike understood the implications of what he said to Will and then was trying to force it onto El. Mike loves her, but he sure hasn’t treated her like she is the most important thing in the world to him??? Sounded empty to me.

I will note that Mike seems to parrot a lot of cliche ‘love expressions’ with El in general. Like he is saying what he thinks he is supposed to. Acting like he is supposed to.

Also funny how... when they are at Will’s house... MIKE CAN’T REMEMBER SAYING HE LOVES HER.And he probably can’t remember trying to confess either. Soooooo he can remember meeting Will when he was FIVE and the whole ‘crazy together’ thing from the year before... but he can’t remember either saying he loves OR trying to confess to the girl he is madly in love with THREE MONTHS earlier??? That... isn’t suspect to anyone? Really? In fact... that entire interaction was suspect. Mike was odd. And the only time he was excited was when he mentioned Will... which he tried to play off as being casual. Why do that when it’s just a bro? (And speaking of bros.. why is he suddenly referring to Will as one? That is... odd. Suddenly when they are older and more mature Will is a BRO. Like he is wanting DISTANCE FROM HIM). The whole exchange with El was really weird and not at all romantic.He was shocked by the kiss, didn’t close his eyes, and looked confused afterwards. That five second exchange with Will had more love and happiness in it. And it was flirty.

That exchange... was them saying that they would always love each other. Mike was worried that Will would replace him and Will said he never would. Will said he would ALWAYS love Mike. Which he also said during their fight (that he had believed that they would PLAY GAMES FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES). And Mike will always love Will too... during that ‘confession’ when he talked about ‘going crazy’ with someone, he added in that he wanted to GROW OLD with them. Mike will always love Will too.

Another aside is that as far as Mike goes, playing games is associated with Will and growing up is associated with El... you know... the thing that a man is supposed to do... find a girlfriend and grow up. I think the scene in the garage was Mike being defensive tbh. He was just crazy asserting that he was doing what he was SUPPOSED TO DO. And... when he wasn’t with El anymore, he started playing games again. He was doing what he WANTED TO DO. Playing games seems to be his natural inclination, but he is also curbing it... In that scene with El, he started talking about how he likes presents but then stopped himself and reprimanded himself. He wanted to sound more like an adult. To me it seemed like he was trying to force himself from what he wanted (Will) to what he was supposed to want (El).

Despite how awkward and not into it Mike was, he seems to be trying to cling to El still. To try and force himself back to how he was before when he was sure he was in love with her. I strongly believe that in S4 he will be with El again, but it will be like it was in S3. And if the Duffers aren’t cowards, they will actually have Byler in the end. Honestly at this point Mileven is just... it’s nonsensical more than ever. It’s a joke. I’m not sure how they can salvage it??? They... did not have good romantic chemistry AT ALL. I don’t think they EVER even had real feelings for each other. And we are supposed to think they are soulmates and in love? Nope. I don’t think so at all. And I think Mike is definitely gay because he tries SO HARD to act like a straight guy. How many straight guys in the season thought he was weird and over the top? A NUMBER OF THEM. Because it was true. The boy didn’t know how to be with a girl once she started LOOKING LIKE A YOUNG WOMAN.

Was some of this me overthinking? Maybe... but remember... while the Duffers have really messed a number of things up with this show... they have generally been consistant With Byler. Also if this is baiting, it’s the worst baiting I have ever seen. They... have gone way over the top with this while developing Mileven very poorly. IDK why they would do that if it was their precious endgame. They might back out at the last moment because they are cowards... but at this moment in time I think this is legit. And they are endgame no matter what because Mike clearly is in denial. Like... his character makes a lot more sense this way.

Mike loves Will NOT El.

#wow that was a hot mess #and i probably missed things #and made little sense #but that is my take on things #in a long ass post

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itsonlystrange · 3 years

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So I just took a deep dive on Byler Twitter and realized how many people literally devote their whole accounts just to talk sh!t about Kaypeace and her theories along with Byler shippers in general. Honestly, the duffers would not be proud of this. Is this seriously what our show has become? People are BASHING someone just because they have hope in a ship?

They’re calling Bylers deranged, delusional, lost soldiers, “in need of a rude awakening”, and more! Like who hurt you? How upset do you have to be with yourself to say this about someone just for shipping two fictional characters? They seriously can’t stand the fact that someone has hope for something and that there is actually proof tied to it. I’ve seen countless people say that she’s “digging up dust bunnies and pretending it’s gold.” Or that she’s “deranged and needs an awakening.” Which is just horrible! Why would you say that about someone?! Just letting you know that Finn, Millie, AND Noah would 100% find you HORRIBLE for saying things like this. This ISNT the fandom they wanted to raise. The show is not surrounded by byler OR Mileven and either way the show is phenomenal without either and there are so many more components. The duffers would not be proud of this behavior. You gotta admit, there are a lot of byler clues throughout all 3 seasons and calling us deranged for seeing something like that is terrible of you.

Saying that she needs mental help for picking up on hints that 2 people may be in love? Seriously? What is wrong with those people! Why do people have an issue with someone having hope. It’s not like we as Bylers are doing this for Mileven. I haven’t seen a Mileven Hate account in ages. And we personally do not claim those who do that. But I don’t understand why people seriously have an issue with the fact that two people could potentially end up together. How am I deranged for shipping two fake characters? Finn has said countless times to STOP with the ship wars and that he isn’t proud of it. This fandom is so toxic at times and is so horrible. You cannot deny that there are some pretty solids hints of Byler being canon. Kaypeace is not treating herself as If she is some saint. She has never said that all of her theories will be correct. But hell, some of them have been in the past! And with all of this proof, how are we deranged for seeing what’s clearly there? And how are we delusional for having faith in something? People really just wanna ruin our parade and ruin our happiness just because we see potential in 2 characters dating and being end game. This show is NOT a romance and exists without any love in it! So can we all stop acting like the show runs on Mileven or Byler or Jopper or Lumax or Jancy or whatever! We both can acknowledge that both ships have a lot of proof and that is that. Whatever happens, we cannot change. If people seriously get this worked up over the fact that Mike may not be in love with El, that seems like a personal issue. I’m not saying there aren’t toxic Bylers but the Mileven community from what I’ve seen has been HORRIBLE. They gaslight us and completely invalidate how we feel just because it’s “Delusinal” and “isnt canon”. Like?? What???

Also, please stop using the words “delusional” or “deranged” or “mental help” over FICTIONAL CHARACTERS. Implying that someone needs to go to a mental hospital just because they enjoy watching a tv show and analyzing it is HORRIBLE. And also horrible to ppl who actually experience delusions as well. It is not a mental illness to ship Mileven or Byler and none of what either are seeing are “delusions” or “hallucinations”. Google what Delusions means first before being an a$$ about it. The hate in this fandom is SO TOXIC. And if the duffers saw this behavior they would be mortified. The duffers would not invalidate either ship in any interview so can we all just stop. It’s THEIR show and at the end of the day they’ll do whatever they want to it. If that means that your ship isn’t canon, then so be it. But saying that “Milevens are always gonna win” and that “Mileven is end game” and then claiming Bylers are delusinal for shipping 2 fictional characters,,,,,, then doesn’t that make Milevens delusinal for shipping 2 fictional characters too?? None of us are delusinal or deranged or anything. We are all human. Let us all have faith.

And also, nothing, and I mean NOTHING is set in stone. Mileven isn’t endgame yet and Byler isn’t end game yet either. For f@!$ sake, Mike could even end up with Max! El could end up with Lucas! We literally never know! So, stop treating like we know the end of the show. We have proof and we analyze it. Why would the duffers be giving us this much proof if it wasn’t to analyze. If Milevens are allowed to theorize then so are Bylers. Hell, maybe Will AND el die by the end and Mike ends up lonely with 3 cats.

This is STRANGER THINGS. The show is all about subverting tropes. So just take all of your expectations and throw them out the window. Because 99% of the time, we are completely blown out of our minds. If there was any show that was gonna leave us in total shock when the season finale airs, it’s stranger things. The duffers know how to write. And they know exactly what they are doing. If Mileven does end up together, so be it. But if Byler is end game, don’t cry about It. Don’t make up some false reality, because ironically that would make YOU the delusional one, haha. But in all seriousness, nothing is set in stone. Anyone remember how off our theories were for season 3? Or how off our theories were for season 4 compared to now? People were convinced S4 was taking place during thanksgiving break, that Steve was joining the Force, that Robin was getting a girlfriend (I hope!), etc. Everything in this show happens for a reason, the duffers said so themselves. And this show is an ENSEMBLE SHOW. No character is the main character. This isn’t a rom com and the show could very well end up with everyone dead besides Keith! We literally don’t know. So can we stop calling ppl delusional or insane for shipping 2 fake people. We’re allowed to theorize. And just bc it isn’t your opinion doesn’t mean it isn’t valid.

This needs to stop! Millie and Noah and the rest of the cast would not be proud of this behavior. Respect everyone’s ships. And for the love of god, stop making accs just to sh!t on Byler or any theorizer. Be a better person

(Please reblog)

@lolbyler @willthecleric @hawkinsschoolcounselor @kaypeace21

#stranger things #mike wheeler #byler #will byers #st4 #stranger things season four

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