#storytimediscourse

[storytimediscourse]

Hello All!

We are a group of folks trying to have an open and honest discussion about the way we were treated while working on the Storytime Madlibs video. We are not looking for better treatment/pay for us, we want those that work with Fosterdawg in the future to be treated fairly. The goal is NOT to cancel these creators. Do not attack Thomas or any member of his team, and do not spread misinformation. If you have any questions/comments, please send us your thoughts! 

#thomas sanders #thomassanders #thatsthat24 #storytimemadlibs #storytime madlibs #storytimediscourse

[lamp-calm-sanders]

I have gotten questions about bad things Thomas has done. I have reblogged posts from people who have explained the situation with the artists much better than I can, I will create a tag for those posts. You can find it under #storytime madlibs on my blog. You can also look at @storytimediscourse which was made by said artists who were screwed over. I’d rather you get info from those places.

What I’ll talk about in this post, is when he played a POC character, this happened when he played an historically black part (Parts that should almost always be played by black people, as they were one of the few parts for POCs/them not being black changes the contexts of the character).

I found this out through scrolling through his TikTok. I was looking for his “Lower Your Expectations Video” and I saw a “Character I Audotioned For/Part I Got” video.

(Image ID: A screenshot of a TikTok by Thomas Sanders. The screenshot shows Thomas in the middle of singing and he is looking towards the right. Towards the bottom of the screen it says the word RENT in white letters with a black outline. Beneath it is a blue text box with the sentence “Auditioned for: Collins” in white. Below that is a green text box that reads “Cast as: Benny” in white letters. There is. Description that says “I was asked to do this & it seemed fun lol” End ID)

Here’s the link to the TikTok: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeFSn7aH/

For those who don’t know RENT, both Collins and Benny are traditionally played by black men in nearly every professional and large performance. These characters were first played by black men and the context of their characters changes if their not black (Especially Benny)

Now I would say this isn’t a big deal, because honestly I don’t know when this was. Yeah he took a part made for black people but like this could have been college/when he first broke out. However I think it shows, once again, the big issue here.

This is a minor thing, but he’s never apologized. Never saw that it was bad. A huge part of being Anti-racist is acknowledging and apologizing which he didn’t do. However he continues to say he supports black people and being anti racist when even he can’t admit to his own shortcoming.

Again, on its own, it’s something I could forgive or even like not mention. But when paired with everything else he won’t apologize for or admit publically, it just adds insult to injury.

And btw while I want an apology for this, I would much rather have an apology for the worse things he’s done like the b.l/m Roman situation, creating a hostile space for POC Fanders, and in my personal opinion the biggest thing: the Madlibs situation.

#thomas sanders #sanders sides #ts criticism #ts discourse

[averykedavra]

"He hasn't cared to share that with us" your point is right, but that phrase is literally just such a common excuse for cancel culture and you could have explained your point better. For all we know a video about it is coming and still being prepared since it's a really serious thing, and stuff like that already happened. I'm already thinking for example of projared, who was completely destroyed on the internet for not apologizing for what people thought he did that he was canceled, while he was taking the time to seriously respond to accusations. Just...people need time to reply about stuff this serious, that's really not the excuse to use when theres proof and shit y'know?

Okay, I hear your point, and I get where you’re coming from. It is true that we wouldn’t want him to dash off an apology in three seconds. This is definitely a serious subject that should be discussed with seriousness. And I don’t think you’re entirely wrong to raise this point.

However. I’m going to give you a timeline. The Storytime video was posted on October 24th. Prince Alex’s video was posted on December 12th. He had held off on posting it, partly because of the contract, and partly through anxiety about the whole situation. That’s already a gap of more than a month. And during this time, animators were reaching out to Thomas and Co, and getting no response.

The information began to spread around December 16th. The @storytimediscourse blog was formed on December 17th. This was five days past Alex’s video. Since then, Thomas and Co have communicated with the animators, and the animators received an explanation about the low pay. A week ago, Prince Alex made his video public again, saying that explanations had been given but there was no public apology.

It is currently February 4th. It has been almost two months since Prince Alex’s video. It has been more than three months since the original video.

Yes, maybe Thomas is making a long, extended video about the subject. Maybe the editing situation has held him up. I suppose it’s reasonable to speculate. First of all, I’m not sure I’d like that--such an “apology video” could easily go downhill. I definitely wouldn’t prefer a long-winded video like that. But that’s irrelevant.

The real point is that we’ve seen no evidence of that occurring. Thomas has not mentioned filming such a video. He’s been occupied with Patreon livestreams, the editing issue, and other things--which doesn’t mean he’s too busy to remember, and that we should leave him alone, just that it’s doubtful he’s squeezing in another project on the side.

Furthermore, if he is doing that, that’s still wrong. I’m not trying to make a blanket statement about every situation, but in this case, he needs to handle it better. A long video is fine, I suppose, but it shouldn’t be the first acknowledgment of this in two months. He hasn’t even tweeted about it. He hasn’t apologized to the animators directly. He hasn’t done anything.

Maybe Thomas and Co need time. But this has been a lot of time with no results. How long do you think it takes to make a small video? How long does it take to contact a team of animators? How long does it take to write an apology statement, even a short one, and admit to his mistakes?

All he needs to say is I’m sorry. Look, I’ll even write him a little apology, if he wants to copy-paste it: “Thank you for speaking out about the animator abuse that occurred. I deeply apologize for myself and on behalf of my team. Our budget issues were not an excuse for the way we treated the animators, and we will endeavor to compensate them and apologize to them directly. We will learn from this, and thank you for holding us accountable. A longer video is forthcoming.”

That took me two minutes to write. And it’s probably not the best apology, especially if it’s not backed up by any real change, but it’s a start. And I wrote it in two minutes. And Thomas has an entire team.

“He hasn’t apologized yet” can be an excuse for cancel culture, I’ll give you that. But it’s been two months. It’s been silent. Animators are still left without answers, support, or acknowledgment. We’ve given him time. We’ve gotten nothing. And if we continue to wait, instead of pushing him into action, we’re gonna end up with nothing.

Some of the animators were forced to finish the project in two weeks. If inexperienced animators can finish their work in less than two weeks, Thomas can write an apology in less than two months.

#sanders sides #madlibs animators #fandom problems #thomas sanders #long post #asks and answers #anon #look i get where you're coming from #but it's been a while my dude #it has been a good long while

[dukeofonions]

So, has Thomas ever acknowledged the storytime madlibs thing?

Publicly, no. There hasn't been anything said from him or the other people involved. The most recent thing said about it is on @storytimediscourse I've just been checking that blog from time to time to see if there's been any news.

#dukeofasks

[carcinized]

Wait thomas underpays?

this is OLDDDD discourse it was for the mad libs thing and i believe the animated ep of tss, flirting with social anxiety, idk im not up to date anymore i left the fandom over a year ago it might be outdated info. the blog @storytimediscourse was made up of those affected and has good info, however it hasnt been updated in over a year (not since december 2020). i dont remember much and i have no idea if anything has changed or not but yea that was a thing. you can look into it more on your own but thats all the info i have jsdjjsdj

#ask #anon #idk it was definitely a thing that the fandom was upset about though #if youre concerned you should look into it more but thats all i can do. theres a direction for research though at least! #tss #<- for blacklist

[storytimediscourse]

Hello all. We have seen your messages, and we are grateful for the concern. We apologize for the radio silence we have perpetuated over these last couple weeks. It was not our intention to close communication between ourselves and the community. However, we cannot speak about which we don't know. We have not received any more responses from the Foster Dawg team, but, likewise, we haven't reached out recently either. We have made our grievances known, and whether or not the team will choose to publicly acknowledge our concerns is unknown. There is not much more we can do at this time. Thank you all so much for the support.

#storytimediscourse #thomas sanders #storytime madlibs #storytime madlibs discourse #foster dawg

[averykedavra]

Hi sorry to ask this but what has happened between Thomas and the madlips animators? I'm this is probably dumb but I've seen everyone talk ab it but never really knew the reason

hi!! no problem, i’ve summarized it several times before but here’s a bullet point list i guess:

back in December thomas and co released the madlibs video on thomas’ second channel, and it contained animation from several fan animators

a few weeks later one of the animators broke the silence and made a video about the whole experience and then the cat was out of the bag

the animators were mainly fans and thomas’ team had never done such a big project before, plus they were apparently underfunded and limited on time

so the animators were given ridiculous deadlines and a very small amount of pay for their hard work

info was not really available to them, their messages and complaints were brushed off, some didn’t even know when the video was released

they also weren’t credited fully in the video description i think

and their contracts prevented them from speaking up about it for a while, but then eventually they came forward about it. they made a blog, @storytimediscourse, and talked about the whole issue, and we all learned what happened

and thomas & co have never apologized or addressed the issue publically, and conversations between them and the animators fizzled out

and it’s been Months now so

so it’s not good

combine it with thomas’ quick apology over the infodumping situation, and yeah i’m still pretty mad about it, thanks for asking

shitty situation no apology no guarantee of future change

there’s the story ig

you can find more details under the tag #madlibs animators on my blog

or you can click this link which i Keep Posting and you’ll see my og summary post with links to other posts about the issue

i really should just make an faq post or smth at this point, if it’s this hard for tumblr to let u guys search things

anyway yeah have a good one spread awareness all that jazz

#i get that the tumblr search function is crap bc it Is #but guys you can #you can just search on my blog #i think you'll find the posts guys #i don't mind answering!! #but the info is already there and i'm wondering if i can make it more accessible #or if i can just direct you to the search bar #madlibs animators #asks and answers #anon #long post #fandom problems

[storytimediscourse]

Ifl know you all said that you weren't looking to be paid more than you already have, but if the team came forward and offered you the full compensation for the industry-standard amount you all should have been paid in the first place, would you accept it?

Good Morning, and thank you for the question! If the team did approach us and offered to pay us the industry-standard, we wouldn't take it. We signed a contract, and we agreed to the pay. This blog, as well as the Twitter account, have been created to create an open discussion about how the team can be better in the future when working with their collaborators. Offering us more money wouldn't change the past, we are only looking into the future.

- StorytimeDiscourse Team

[averykedavra]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but last I heard the animators did get a response / explanation and were working on how to respond to it?

This is entering “specific details that I could also be wrong about” territory, especially since I am not one of the animators and have no first-hand knowledge, but here’s what I know:

1. The animators have still been reblogging, interacting with, and talking about posts about this issue. I actually spoke to one in DMs briefly, and since they are clearly on board with talking about this, we can assume that the ball is not entirely in their court. If they were working on a response, they probably wouldn’t be upset about the situation in the same way.

2. Furthermore, one animator said on anon to @voltsm that they felt the whole thing had been swept under the rug. They shared that many animators, for understandable reasons, were worn out by the issue and didn’t pursue it as much. However, “we never got closure. and im upset and feel like im the only one who still cares.”

3. The final post on @storytimediscourse, on January 13th, states that communication had stalled. They had not received any more responses from Thomas and Co, but hadn’t recently contacted them, either. “We have made our grievances known,” they state in the post. “and whether or not the team will choose to publicly acknowledge our concerns is unknown. There is not much more we can do at this time.”

4. A week ago, Prince Alex reuploaded the Youtube video about the situation. In the comments, he talked about how he appreciated the support, and was a bit taken aback by the response from fans. “We did hear back from the team,” he said, “and they explained why certain things were the way that they were...it doesn't excuse it, but we at least got an explanation. I, personally, am still hoping they will address this publicly.”

5. On the blog @youtuberswithalex, Prince Alex encouraged people to keep talking about it. Alex talked about how people were seriously hurt because of Thomas’ mistakes, and that they needed to keep posting about it. “And yes, while Thomas might not have known fully, he still has at least partial blame– it’s his company, and he should know what’s going on. He DOES know what was going on. And by not saying a thing, he’s continuing to make a mistake.”

I’m not sure where you got your information, and if anyone has any corrections or clarifications, please let me know. However, to the best of my knowledge, this is the information we have. The situation has not been resolved to anyone’s satisfaction. I believe at one point, the animators did give the team a list of things they could improve on next time, but I don’t believe that went anywhere.

Last I heard, this was where things stood. Again, I could be wrong, but this is what I could find. Since the animators don’t want to drop this issue, I think it’s safe to say that we shouldn’t.

#asks and answers #sanders sides #madlibs animators #thomas sanders #fandom problems #anon #i don't judge you for being incorrect btw! #it can be hard to keep track of the info #but this is what i could find!