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#terrible thing they do or ignoring it compeltely and it happens all the time in everything and I’m allowed to be annoyed by things that
ziracona · 2 years
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TLDR at the bottom, as I know this became very long. My apologies.
I would really like to clarify first that I am not arguing with you or attempting to make you like her and am just attempting to explain my stance since you seemed confused about specifically this: as someone who is very solidly for mage rights in the Dragon Age games and also really likes Vivienne, I do think you overestimate how many fans she has? Which is completely understandable as fandom has cooled a little bit in the last few years, which means there’s less discourse posts floating around, but it used to be that if I found Vivienne content it was vitriolic towards her—she has a canonical Ao3 tag labeled “Vivienne (Dragon Age) Is A Bitch” for example.
We’re not prone to criticizing her character on the regular because she already gets a lot of it, on about the same level as Anders (whom I also am very fond of) and most of it has already been said before.
For examples though, her arguments about mages are genuinely infuriating and make little sense.
She is fantastically racist in the game, which is also very frustrating, though to be fair to her, I’m having trouble thinking of a companion who isn’t at some point or another without ability to correct them (Dorian supporting slavery and his “elven harpy” comment towards, Cole’s “Never trust half an elf” comment which is bad regardless of if they were intending it to be about Michel, Solas and Sera’s everything unfortunately, etc. all come to mind.) Maybe Bull, Leliana, or Josie? I can’t remember them being so off the top of my head.
These things do suck and most Vivienne fans (except for a few, but typically fans who support the fantasy Catholic Church aren’t going to be the type of fans who will bother caring about a Black woman—they’ll usually go for Cullen, the white straight man who is anti-mage and who the narrative actually cares about) are very aware of her flaws, but generally we think it was a very stupid idea to have the first Black companion (that they will actually admit to being Black anyway, unlike Isabela who got whitewashed and Morrigan and Cole, who never really have the fact that they are mixed Black acknowledged or shown in the games) support the oppressive system and use her as a mouthpiece for a conservative agenda.
(Using characters as a mouthpiece for whatever agenda the devs are trying to push with little regard to their actual characters is a very common thing in Inqusition—ex. at one point they have Cole say Cullen was a “good Templar who remembered the mages are people” when Cullen literally has a line in 2 saying “Mages aren’t people like you and me.” which is a direct quote from him, and even though Cole should by all rights be terrified by Cullen. Also, all of Varric’s Inquisition characterization.)
I mean, her companion quest is just there to have you distrust her briefly (the quest is named after a classic villain line and the youth potion paper) before “surprising” the player with the the fact that she… has layers? Cares about someone? Which is so… incredibly stupid on the Dev’s parts for a variety of reasons that if I talk about now I will start getting genuinely angry over.
I also think she has some very redeeming qualities. I personally found that she was very compassionate towards an Inquisitor she was friends with. It doesn’t stop her from being opportunistic, but I don’t think that’s a bad thing necessarily. I think this bit specifically is probably something we won’t agree on however, since we have very different readings on these moments, so I’m going keep it at that.
None of this is meant to convince you to like her at all, but I wanted to explain my perspective in doing so since you seemed confused about it.
TLDR: I, and many other pro-mage Vivienne fans, are aware of her flaws, but we think that was a terrible writing decision and do see several redeemable qualities in her character. None of this is meant to sway you in your dislike of her, but I wanted to explain my perspective since you said you didn’t understand how someone could like Vivienne and be pro-mage.
(P.S. I am very sorry if any of this comes off as condescending or if this was completely unwelcome. I’m autistic and have a hard time with tone, both reading it and delivering it. I’m working on it, but I’m still not good at tone over text.)
I. I understand all of this. I’ve criticized the fact they made the first black companion a huge bitch and a bigot against her own kind from the second it became clear that was her personality? But her being the first black companion also doesn’t innately make her a good character. Being a minority doesn’t make what a character does automatically ok or less bad, and idealization is dehumanization as much as villainizing is. It makes BioWare’s writers and their decisions gross, and their agenda gross, any anyone who uses her sucking as an excuse to be racist or disproportionately hateful to only the black companion horrible, but it at the same time doesn’t just…make her good, or ok.
She’s written stupidly, but the character they made is a bigot given no real character growth who tries to ruin the advances for mage rights even if you put forth the best possible outcomes (Lelianna Divine, allied Mages) and befriended Vivienne. She straight sucks. She does. She is a bad, selfish, emotionally manipulative person with no empathy for those of her kind less privileged than her, and a species traitor. (Or whatever? Can’t think of a better thing to categorize Mages as. Class??) It’s not like I only complain about her. I’ve been just as liberal complaining about Doriana and Sera and every other fucked up choice the Devs made. If you’ve seen anything I posted the past week, you’ve probably seen me having a meltdown over how utterly unsalvagable Inquisition is as a game. As for Viv herself, she’s not devoid of good qualities. She’ll be nice if she’s your friend, you’re right, but you have to be kind of terrible to befriend her at all, and so? So is everyone on the planet. That’s what fair weather friends /are/. But beyond that, yeah. She’s not all evil. She cared about the guy she was mistress to. She’s not a monster. But she high key is a terrible person and sucks. You’re right, the devs making her quest a quote from the Queen from Snow White of all things, to encourage a player to lie to her, is fucked up. So is literally everything they did to her. So is how they treated Bull, and Dorian, and Sera, and all kinds of things. But that doesn’t make the character good.
From your own description, you don’t actually like canon Vivienne. You like the HC version you rewrote in your head. And that’s fair, and it’s a fair way to say fuck you to the devs—I do the same with Solas. But you’ll never see me not absolutely accusing the shit out of canon end game Trespasser Solas—he’s a racial supremacist genocide intellectual dude bro, which is a horrific choice for the devs to make esp considering his preTrespasser characterization, but that’s still what he was. I can ignore that and make my HCs, but I’m not going to pretend canon wasn’t what it is. It was. And I wasn’t complaining I see alternate takes on Vivienne, but that I see people talk about Canon Viv like she’s a girlboss while claiming to be pro mage, and those things just concretely do not and cannot go together. And that complaint absolutely stands. It’s cool and even good to hc and rewrite her as a different person. But that’s not canon Viv anymore then, it’s an OC that should have been in the game.
#ask#anonymous#I’m sick of people wanting to argue with me about dragon age so I’m not tagging this sorry people who filter my blog I usually put you first#but I can’t take it anymore#I am also sick of people arbitrarily liking charcaters who suck because they’re hot or because they’re X and then ignoring or excusing every#terrible thing they do or ignoring it compeltely and it happens all the time in everything and I’m allowed to be annoyed by things that#annoy me. it annoys me I don’t see people complain about Dorian being pro slavery or even hesitate to romance him over it. it annoys me Sera#is a bigot to elves and will try to forcibly convert a lover to Fantasy Catholicism or break up. it annoys me Varric is a massive bitch in#Inquisition in many ways but everyone loves him. it annoys me he refused to speak to my husband ONCE even in the event of my death to tell#him I died. it annoys me he will Stan Iza after the end of Act2 but flips on Anders like a griddle cake. it annoys me he’s a centrist and no#one criticizes that. it annoys me Aveline is a bastard cop in DA2 and I don’t see people criticize that. it annoys me Cassandra won’t tell#Mages how to reverse tranquility and no one I see talks about it. it annoys me they Tommy Gun’d Solas’ charcater from the entire game in#Trespasser and I see people stan him or hate him but no one talk about how fucked up the message the devs flipped on a dime to push with#Trespasser was. and it annoys me Vivienne is a huge bitch and a bigot but i either see people complain only that she’s mean or Stan her as a#girlboss and ignore the fact she’s specist and horribly anti mage and a class/species traitor who doesn’t get better#and it annoys me MUCH MORE than ALL of these things that the fault Leo’s with BioWare eroding it’s ethics to a point of toxicity utterly#*Lies With#unlivable and as little as I see complaints about any of the above I still see them more than people calling to break down doors if that#dumbass white Canadians’ game company and wring their necks for every horrific racist anti-minority-action centrist#fascist religious oligarchy supremacist bullshit take they shoved down every player’s throat in Inquisitiom
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what ive always wanted
its really crazy to think where i am now compared to where i was a year ago. i was in the ending stages of a terrible relationship that seemed like it would never end. i never saw a light at the end of that tunnel. the amount of heartbreak and trials and tribulations we endured made it seem like that had to be my forever. i always thought, how could i go through so much heartbreak and turmoil over somebody i wasnt going to marry? i made myself believe that it was all worth it and not a complete waste of time.i made myself believe that because we had gone through so much shit and that it was so terrible, that it had to be right. it had to be what was meant to be, otherwise we wouldnt still be in each others lives. this is where it got toxic. i convinced myself that this abusive relationship was meant to be because it was so bad. sounds a lot more fucked up when i think about it in retrospect. i started realizing he wasnt the one when a few things started happening. lets start with the night he texted me and professed his apologies. something, every time we broke up, i had hoped so badly for. to randomly check my phone and see a text from him knowing what it was about. i remember one time i had woken up from a night i had barely slept, after we broke up, to a text form him. it just read “no.” and i immediatley knew what it was. i also immediately let him back in. that was my frist mistake. anyways, i had gotten that text one night while doing homework on my bed. it was around 11pm and i was finishing up some work due the next day. all my lgiths were on and the tv was on. i remember sitting there just looking at it, and then looking into the distance in confusion, tyrying to determine my feelings about this. it didnt feel the same. i didnt get that same excitement i had so many times before this when the exact same thing happened. something was off. but like old habits, i replied. we talked for a little and he made it clear this wasnt the beginning of a journey to win me back. it was simply him letting me know he was sorry and that he was in pain from everything. and even thought i didnt believe him about much towards the end, i believe this. i truly believe he was starting to feel the loss because it had been the first time we really broke up. something i hadnt really thought of the past few months which was extremely contrair to what is normally the case. we texted and then went to bed. nothing too serious. fast forward a couple months from then and i was sitting in my kitchen. i told alexa to play a song that i had been lsitneing on repeat that day. i sat there and really listened to it and started to think of him, and cry for the first time since we broke up. like really cry. thats when i texted him and told him i needed to see him. so we did. we went to buffalo wild wings and things were weird and we talked and i held his hand for a few seconds and that was it. we didnt really talk about anything and dinner was quick. we then got in my car and somehow it got rbought up and man i wish i could remember. but we both just started bawling. crying our fucking eyes out like a couple of newborn babies. i remember us hugging each other tight and getting snot all over eachothers clothes. and we couldnt stop. we didnt want the night to end so we drove all the way back to my house (which was a half hour away) and sat at the river in my car and cried. we talked a little but mostly cried. hard. im not kidding, all night. obviously when these moments are occuring there is a lot of passion. youre obviously both very upset and vulnerable. i was also really fucking horny. so i started to kiss his neck, and that made him cry harder. and but i kept going, until eventually his tongue was in my mouth. making out and then taking a break to cry more. eventually we were in the backseat of my car fucking. fucking and crying. that kind of sex is always the best, but once its over you instantly know it was the wrong choice. so the sun came up and we said our goodbyes. we had been up all night. i went home and just walked right in, nobody even knew i was out all ngiht. i went right up to bed and fell asleep. i woke up around 1pm and just instantly started crying. i was so confused. part of me was so sad because i didnt know if id ever see him again or what was to come of it, and the other half of me was scared i was going to get sucked back in. see, we had gone about 3 months without really talking or anything and it was the happiest 3 months id had in 3 years. but after that night i realized how much i missed him, but deep down knew how bad he was for me and how toxic it was. half of me that morning was scared i had opened the door even a crack to let him back in. i knew it was no longer the road for me but went with it anyways. so after that we had seen each other again and then were back in each others lives. things were back to how they normally were; terrible. but, if we were back in each others lives after all that shit then we’d have to be the ones for each other, right? no. wrong. compeltely wrong. i was so wrong. this was the first time i had ever felt this way. this is when i started to discover that maybe i would come to my senses and leave him for good. but, i shoved these doubts in the back of my mind and continued the toxic relationship. what made it even worse was that i had been on tinder and he had no idea. meanwhile he thought we were exclusive and working on things. i was messaging guys while he was in my bed. i never really thought about this but damn that was fucked up. this is also how i began to know. i wanted something else. i knew there was somebody out there for me that wasnt him that was just in my reach and so close yet so far away. i just had a true gut feeling that they were coming soon. but i didnt know if that was just a random feeling or it was the truth. so i kept him around. and continued to talk to guys on tinder. some really cool fucking guys. and i never hung out with them because of him. (just letting you know, im a huge advocate for tinder. shit slaps.) another thing that made me believe he wasnt the one was that after sex, i would always cry. not because i was so in love or wish things were better, but because i knew he wasnt the one i was supposed to be having sex with. i felt it my soul. i had never been more sure of anything. then, i started to get annoyed when id see a text from him in the morning. i would start to get annoyed when he would tell me he loves me and id feel forced to say it back. and then i started to forget to answer him. i started to leave him on read unintentionally or forget to open his snapchats. id forget he even existed for a few brief moments, which were nice. i really really really started to know once i stopped loving where he lived. i had fallen more in love with that place than i did with him. that place was something special to me. and i had stopped feeling the same joy there as i always had for 3 years prior. these began to accumulate and i grew unable to ignore them. after his birthday it was so clear. i didnt want to have sex with him i did wahtever i could to avoid it. i dreaded the thought of having to spend an entire weekend with him. i then dreaded having to interact with him when i got home. it had become so clear and so vivid. it was time to leave. for good. and i knew it and i was ready. so sitting in social studies, after he gave me a hard time about not answering his last i love you text, i ended it. i told him i couldnt do it anymore. and he knew. he didnt even put a fight because he could see it in me. he knew it was clear for me that it was over. so the conversation that day was short. i cried in class that day because it was sad. 3 years of constant turbulence was over. i was relieved and happy yet sad. but i deleted him from everything right after i sent the text, deleted our conversation, and it was done. i knew it. i had never known that much before. there was no doubt. every ounce of my soul and being knew it was over and i could finally breathe. i had been putting up with so much shit for 3 years and was finally out. i never thought id have enough strength to get my self out of it which is a terrifying thought. to truly enver think youll get yourself out of a fuckery of a relationship but you did. to pull yourself from the depths of hell and find the light again. truly something special. i knew what i wanted for myself and felt him there the entire time. i knew my future was a kid attending west point but i had no idea how id find him. there was a constant energy pulling me towards west point. i knew he was there and that was waht i wanted. i wanted it so bad. i felt like my soul was being called to there to know the love of my life was there. and after goiong on numerous shit dates, i had finally found him. we had talked for a week adn then stopped talking for about 3. i randomly messaged him and then we made plans to hang out which i baile don. then i called him on snapchat and that was the begining to it all. we talked on the phone for 5 hours that night. when we got off the phone i was like theres no possible way that was the end of it. you dont talk on the phone and connect with somebody like that for 5 hours and then never talk to them again. so the next day i woke up hopeful but with no expectations. this was approximately one month after i had broken up with that piec eof shit so i was enjoying life on my own. i almost didntw ant it to end but i knew that somsething was calling me there. so we texted and he called me the next day. we talked on the phone several times after that, each 4-6 hours long. we finally made plans to hang out. i was at work, sweaty gross and tired aftering training 12 year old gymnasts for 4 hours. but i wanted to go. so i raced home, showered and got dressed and drove to west point. i got there and picked him up right in front of the mailbox. nothing was awkward and everything was going smoothly. we took a walk and sat and talked for 2 hours. no silence, no awkward lulls. nothing. it was great. i had a smile on my face the entire time. we started to walk back and i started to get nervous because i couldnt read the situation. i had hung out with guys before thinking it was going great and then they end up not kissing me at the end. so were standing there, about to say goodbye and then he gives me a hug. and im like fuck man. hes not gonna kiss me... really? shit. that sucks. but then he asks when he can see me again, and my spirit lit back up. we set a day. and then he asked me to kiss him. and i did. a quick one. but it was nice. it was cold and he got boogers on me. i told him and we laughed, and he hugged me and said he was sorry. but it didnt bother me at all. i thought it was cute and funny. i got into my car and immediaately called my best friend. i told her how unreal it was. and that i was praying that this wasnt the end of it. and the weirdest thing of all, was that when i got in the car, bless the broken road by rascall flats came on. i was stunned. i knew right then and there that i had found my forever. the love of my life. the kind of love you see in movies. i felt like i had loved him from the beginning. and then i got a text. one i will rememebr forever. “okay, i kinda like you” and that was the beginning of it all. never had i had a guy tell me straight up how he feels like that. ever. it had always been so unclear and this was the first guy to ever tell me that. from there, we stngarted hanging out more and talking more. and even after the first tim ewe hung out, i missed him. i really did. i truly missed him and it was the strangest thing because we hung out once. how could i miss somebody i hung out with for two hours? what? that was crazy. but then we started hanging out more and then we started dating. and thats when things started to go downhill for me. i was upset i had given up my freedom so fast. i was now bound to another human and respinsible for their feelings. i had to now report to somebody again and make sure i wasnt missing their texts. i had no energy in me from my previuos relationship. it was too soon. and i knew that. i didnt even have energy for arguments. i never wanted to hang out with him and i never wanted to have sex with him. i was straight up mean to him.. even considered breaking up with him multiple times. i did not want to be in that relationship but something in me told me to stay. soemthing in me brought out the life in me. and i started to go from resenting him, to letting him in. i started to be vulnerable again. and very quickly, i started to fall in love with him. i realized i had gotten exactly what i wanted. exactly. what i had prayed for so hard and wished for every second with my entire life. and i really havent sat down to think about that in its entirety. i thought, how cool would it be to date a west point cadet, and be so proud of who they are. and travel to where they live and meet their family and be apart of this culture and make new friends. and i have it. i have it . lik ewaht?! i have it. and hes fucking unreal. he gave me a promise ring because he wants to marry me. and he will. and its what i dreamed of so many fuckking times. i have exactly waht i want and i couldnt be happier. im going to florida in 3 days to be with HIM in his hometown. my west point cadet that lives in florida, im going to visit. like WHAT dude. what teh fuck. crazy. thank you god. 
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First Journal Entry.
I wrote this today but on another platform. Just making this to keep track of my life.Just going to paste it here.
“   I want to leave some sort of trail to look back on in a few years. Ill just sum up the last few years. From 2014-now 2018. In 8th grade I really started to make lifelong friends. It was one of my favorite years of school with Ms. Cooper as my ela teacher. My friend Diego also became one of my best that year and he still is. Same with Bryan. I am much closer with Bryan today. I also was really good friends with both Zachs. Although I have compeltely lost contact with them. Havent talked to either of them since 9th grade. That year kinda sucked. I barley had any good classes or classes with friends. I did start talking to my other really good friend Tyler that year. Also my friend nick who I havent really seen recently. Nothing eventful happened that year. Skip forward to the end of 9th grade and I started talking to kara. I was so fucking happy that a girl actually liked me and wanted to date. I was super nervous but we went out on a date and it went really well. I felt on top of the world. I always had a weird vibe about her. She a few months in became controlling and abusive. Made me bleed a few times. My whole family hated her. And her own family were mean to her. After all she did to me, I still felt bad for her and I still do in some ways. When she was nice she was the nicest girl in the world. When she was mean, she was evil. I dated her from the end of 9th grade to the end of 10th grade to almost the start of 11th. She broke up with me after a year and 2 months. August 8th. When she did I has a panic attack and almost fainted. But being the cruel person she is, she led me on for another month or so making me think she was going to get back with me, I had my hoped up so high and I missed her so much. Eventually she just said its over for real, but always left a little hope by saying "one day". It had me fucked up for months after. I should have cut ties sooner. It only hurts more. That is one big lesson I learned. Do not keep in touch with your ex if you want to get over them. Then in may I made the mistake of going to see her at the mall. Which only ended terrible. She made me pay for her food and tried to kiss me. i wanted to so bad but i didnt. I dont know why. She got mad. I forget why. She left and i was alone in the mall crying in the corner bench where bestbuy used to be. Rewind a bit. Start of 11th grade I started a band with bryan. it was called out of breath and it was me, bryan, diego and george. Diego was only in for a day. I love diego but he just was so bad and didnt practice the songs at all. He isnt as into music as me and bryan are. Which is ok. one whole year later we finally got our first show. By that time we had made about 30 songs. Only of which 5 actually made it onto the demo we are proud of. So now its 12th grade. In the july before 12th started, This girl jessica messaged me. She said I was cute and she wanted to keep talking to me. She was In florida at the time with her dad. I waited a whole month for her to get back. But just before we went on a date I got really sick after spending a few nights at jimny peak for my grandpas birthday. My throat hurt so bad. I didnt eat for 5 days. barley drank. I finally got better and ate and drank as much as i could. When i went to the hispital i had dreams about drinking apple juice and soda. It was the worst. I probably lost 5 pounds. Finally I went on the date with jess. i really did like her. She was only 15 however. We saw anabelle or something. I forget. I had a realy nice time and the feeling of someone else laying on me and holding me was something i really really missed. I was so happy. She was just really immature. She had depression and lots of problems. We broke up after she got drunk with a bunch of 20 something year olds. I cant stand drinking, smoking or drugs. And I am so fucking serious. I am done with that after what she did. A few days about a week before that happened. This girl krystal had moved back from florida. In 9th grade I would always see her. apprently we used to talk in homeroom but i dont remember that at all. She was one of those girls i just didnt think i was allowed to talk to. There are still those fucking people. The ones you cant talk to. You know what i mean. Thats all she talked to too. All the girls i had been friends with and now i wasnt. For the better honestly. They turned into druggies and whores. But she moved back after a few years in florida. i didnt think much of it. The  she liked all my pics on ig and i did the same. She also sent me a pic on christmas eve. I almost replied. i didnt tho. The next night she actually messaged me. She sent a heart face to my snap story. we started talking and i really started to like her even tho I had a girlfriend. Within 5 days of the breakup we started dating. We saw insideous. I was beyond happy and had never felt this before ever. Its also sad and tragic that the week leading up to that all my friend just roasted the shit out of her and called her a whore and said i shouldnt feel bad if i just ignored her. That made me a little sad but whatever. She then explained that she used to party get drunk and did xanax. Talk about a fucking turnoff. It still bothers me and sometimes i cant sleep. Why the fuck would you want to drink poison? I swear people who drink are fucking retarded. When you all have liver failure youll see whos right. And she claims that her step dad is dope for giving her weed money. Parents who love their fucking kids dont give them weed money. Literally fuck off with that shit. Weed is also the drug of choice for many LOSERS. I guess she doesnt anymore. But still the fact that she was a fuck up partier whore who slept with 2 people she wasnt in a relationship with. pisses me the fuck off. If you dont wanna almost get pregnant dont take xanax when youre drunk you fucking cunt. Sorry. i love her. And i feel like shes fading from me honestly. Yesterday at lunch we just didnt talk. And we barley have since then. we used to all the time. Shed leave me paragraphs. None of that anymore. She also always has a fucking attitude when I ask anything any boyfriend would. And she never comforts me when Im sad. She never fucking talks things through or tries to see my side of the fucking story. My feelings dont matter when we argue. If shes mad, im wrong. If shes sad, im wrong. It hurts me beyond belief  and we never accomplish anything. When you argue you need to see each others side. Maybe just both say sorry and move on so you both feel like you win. When she cries i hug and kiss her and say its all gonna be ok. When i cry. She looks away. When im sad she doesnt do anything. She said she sucks at comforting people. How hard is it to kiss me or hug me when im sad? you dont need to say anything. She really hurts me sometimes and makes me feel like i dont mean as much as i did. i also really dont want her to leave for the navy. Because if that happens. you know what happens. You grow apart. You fall out of love. Thats the sad truth. I dont want that. I also still feel like shes cheating or shes goig to cheat on me with someone when she goes to florida during break. With one of her guy "friends". Or smoke weed or drink. if i find out she smoked or got drunk. i am leaving her. no trace. "sober eyes are the truest ones" and i refuse to be with someone who smokes or drinks for fun. Poison. Ok thats allup until now. Im sitting her and have been writing for 30 min. Today was weird. But I still feel sad. She doesnt seem into me at all. She doesnt ask to see me. She never even messages me first. I know its dumb, but it hurts me.”
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