#theres just so much to say about the helluva boss situation

[hezuart]

He something that I need to get out of my back and it’s about Stolas and his parenting to Octavia.

Now it’s also Imply that Stolas didn’t have a good relationship with is father. So it was clear that he didn’t what to have the some toxic relationship with his daughter, we already see that Stolas loves Octavia more then anything.

That being said we never see him really care for Octavia sure he might have song her a Lullaby and kiss he Boo-boo. But anyone can do that a true parent showed care of how their actions will affect their kid’s life and Stolas have not done ANY OF IT.

Hay Stolas you wanted you daughter to have “ normal life” well where was the “ normal life” of having a affair.

Where was the “normal life” by bringing that affair to you guys Father and daughter bonding time together only for you to sexually firlt in front on your daughter.

Where was the “ normal life” by putting your family life in danger by giving you affair a very powerful book for sex.

Where was the “normal life” by putting her in sixteen long years in a toxic environment were you literally have the power to get a DAME F&CKING Divorce anytime you wanted.

It seems like Stolas want to runaway or blame his actions on someone else and it not just him some goes for the fan they want to blame everyone for Stolas own actions.

But here’s the thing Stolas is now a full grown F$cking man so he can make his own decisions that also means that he is going consequences for his own actions. Actions that will affect other

now I known that there going to me a new episode this month and it going to have Octavia and Stolas in it. Don’t know if I’m going to watch it,cause the show is going done hill pretty fast with it’s bad written but I’m hoping this will the episode where Stolas finally, finally relies that he have been being a bad dad and he needs to get his shit together for the his daughter ‘s safety.

Before I leave here one last thing I want to say before I go. As Todd Chavez for BoJack once said.

“ You can’t keep doing shitty thing and just feel bad about them like that make’s it ok you need to be Better.”

“ you are all the things that are wrong with you. It’s not the alcohol or your dad or any of the shitty thing that happened to you and your wife, or when you were a kids. IT’S YOU, OK, IT’S YOU!”

Good night everyone and thank you.

Yeah so, I'm not gonna completely say Stolas doesn't love his daughter, he does love her, but after the Circus episode it just kinda... doesn't make a lot of sense, what with his previous actions.

It just seems really weird that Stolas

A. Wanted to give Octavia a "normal" life by pretending he was in love with Stella and keeping her circumstantial birth a secret; however, Stella did not seem to agree with this "normal life" and took every opportunity to scream, insult, and gossip about Stolas not only behind his back but also deliberately in front of him. How Octavia never heard that or saw a problem with any of that is beyond me. (Also again, Octavia claiming their life was indeed happy before Stolas cheated on his wife is also a wild retcon) And you are absolutely right; why Stolas waited for Octavia to be 17 until he could divorce Stella doesn't make a lot of sense, unless Hell Divorce entails certain rituals or circumstances; otherwise, all the Goetia family wanted was an heir. Why did they have to play family? Why couldn't they have just... had an heir and gone their separate ways?

Also, how and why did Stolas have the authority to give his daughter a normal life? Isn't Paimon the chief of the Goetias who ordered her birth in the first place, and assigns his sons roles and gifts them power and purpose? How does Stolas have permission to lie to his daughter about her purpose? Does she even have a purpose outside of "insurance"? All she does is collect taxidermy and listen to music. What kind of power or talent would she bring to the Goetia family?

B. Stolas, in all his love; singing to her and checking in on her; he still thinks she likes Loo Loo Land despite the fact that she is much older and clearly not interested. If Stolas actually hung out with his daughter, he should know she didn't want to go there anymore. In the Circus episode, Stolas misread the situation to a horrific degree and you'd think that could be applied here, but when he speaks with Octavia, the "'My Life is Burning Down Around Me' by 'Fuck You Dad' it is a band..." and the "I'd rather kill myself than go to Loo Loo Land," are so blatant, and you can tell he gets nervous at what she says, but still brushes it off because he wants to use her as an excuse to actually hang out and flirt with Blitzo, ignoring the fact that Octavia clearly didn't want to be there.

That's why Stolas and Octavia's relationship is so sour to me now, because despite Stolas "loving her", he has given up and puts his needs first now, and you can't be upset with him over it because he never wanted Octavia in the first place. And Octavia has to live with that now. She has to live with the fact that she's been lied to, if her father had a choice then she wouldn't exist, and the fact that frankly, Stolas loves Blitzo undeservedly more than his own daughter, and you cannot blame him for it because he's been turned into this sad baby man, and that's the frustrating part about Helluva Boss. Taking a complex character and his relationships and dulling them down for truly no good reason other than ship pandering that isn't even good ship pandering....

#sorry for long posts #theres just so much to say about the helluva boss situation #helluva boss #ask #stolas #long post #i still cant get over blitzo pity fucking stolas #god that scene was so disturbing and unfunny #he was literally gonna tie stolas to the bed and rob him point blank range by playing his feelings #and then he feels the tiniest bit of guilt and pity and after short contemplation gives in #and he is SO relieved in the morning to leave- snagging the book #and helluva boss cant decide whether stolas was just using blitzo #or if stolas is actually in love with blitzo and only wants a relationship #like i swear every 5 minutes they change their mind #rant

[hearts401]

Why do you think Helluva Boss is better, in terms of writing?

OOOH i have a LOT to say about this.

I think it's a lot less rushed. it FEELS a lot less rushed. And thats not saying its all perfect, it went pretty fast too, but not as fast as hazbin.

For example, hazbin had this big deadline and they had to fit in angels arc, the carmilla/vaggie situation, the heaven stuff, AND charlies shit with her dad. So despite it being a comedy, they had to stuff a LOT of things together, which means theres less chance for filler which means it gets rushed. (bc honestly, it feels less like a comedy and more like an edgy teen humor show BECAUSE they're stuffing the comedy in while rushing to get all the important lore bits in)

so helluva boss feels more like a comedy. they have serious moments, but it leaves space for jokes and humor that dont feel out of place (for example, in the hh finale they kept making jokes that rlly didnt fit? like charlie profusely apologizing to angels who are slaughtering her people? or when pentious died and it was a joke but we were supposed to take it seriously???)

helluva boss has episodes with less emotional baggage in them, like the pilot, murder family, spring broken, and CHERUB, and the harvest moon festival, all in season one. and while they do HAVE emotional moments, theyre not super heavy. then you have episodes that feel like a mix, like truth seekers and loo loo land. and then you have heavy episodes like ozzie's and queen bee. its much more balanced (and im focusing on s1 of hb bc its unfair to pit a two season show against a one season show.)

also also also, and this is smth i complain about a lot, Hazbin Hotel is OBSESSED with making their characters as likeable as possible. unfortunately this falls on characters who DONT DESERVE IT. Like angel dust. When he harassed husk, it was supposed to be humor and funny and whatever, but when husk snapped at him, he was the bad guy suddenly. and angel still never apologized. and im not saying hb doesnt have that issue (ESPECIALLY with stolas) but i think its handled better.

blitzo is a good example. i have complaints about the circus situation, but in the end hes still not a good guy, excuse or not. he's rude, he's nosy, he's dismissive. he hunts his sister down despite her making it very clear she doesnt wanna see him. and he brushes off stolas and even uses him under the guise of a sweet date. in general, blitzo is just waaay better handled than angel dust is.

i also like the villains more? theyre not made out to be a joke as much as the villians in hazbin (per my earlier statement about all the humor being stuffed in) crimson is made to be genuinely intimidating, striker, while mocked a lot, is still a very serious villain, mammon is a big joke on purpose, and it makes sense! and then other antagonists (verosika, one and two, ect) are made out to be funny because theyre NOT big villains, they're just bitches who have beef with imp. the worst villain in hb is, of course, the one woman, stella. but thats a conversation for another ask.

meanwhile the hazbin villains are sooo dumbed down. our most serious villain was lute. adam was a huge joke and relatively annoying at times? like most of what he did was watered down by bad jokes (like killing pentious??? ppl seem to forget adam beat alastor without even tearing his clothes and its because everytime hes on screen theres a terrible joke about to be made) and the vees are just??? eh??? i dont have a TON of complaints about velvette aside from how little she actually did to the point where she hardly feels like a villain? shes moreso just annoying. and then vox hypnotizes people and hes like. evil ceo type shit but thats overshadowed by his crazy ass beef with alastor because again, he didnt do much else. and then val had that stupid scene with vox that i hate so so so so much. hes made out to be funny when he SHOULDNT BE!!! They dont take val's character seriously its weird. ick. and also we didnt have many villains to even go off of? helluva boss gave us lots of characters to work with in season one, and all of them are unique in some way, and had time to shine and will have more time to shine later because the story isnt rushing. hazbin INSISTED on concluding this arc in one season when it really shouldn't have. they didnt have the time to do it, and they tried anyway. helluva boss is better because they gave it TIME. striker is introduced in season one and we KNOW he'll come back because he got away! and he does! and hes great because they gave him TIME to be there and be gone and be there and be gone.

and now he's our most recurring villain. and i think hes awesome. crimson didnt actually have a lot of time to vanish and come back, but hes also new so its a bit different. and he had two episodes in between showing up and disappearing, and the second one had more focus on striker anyways.

i think that while hazbin is a 4/10 for me (5 if im being generous), helluva boss is a 6 or 7/10. the worst part about the helluva boss writing is stolas's family and how the women are written tbh.

tldr: helluva boss is better paced and the characters are better, and hazbin hotel is too rushed and forces these characters onto you

#tzu rambles #tzu asks #tzu rants #hazbin hotel criticism

[woomycritiques543]

As a lackadaisy fan who dropped helluva 5 episodes in, I think you’re overestimating the effect of the fandom has on things outside of itself because you are inmeshed in it. You don’t have the outside view. Don’t get me wrong, it sounds like a toxic shit show, but it doesn’t have a ‘monopoly’. If all it took to gain a monopoly in entertainment was to have a horribly rabid fanbase that won’t take the smallest bit of criticism, the history of indie entertainment would be very different.

(TW: LONG POST, mentions of Vivziepop's behavior, also if you're another lackadaisy fan that's curious about what's been happening over at the Hazbin fandom PLEASE DONT SKIP THIS POST!)

"If all it took to gain a monopoly in entertainment was to have a horribly rabid fanbase that won’t take the smallest bit of criticism, the history of indie entertainment would be very different."

Hm...

As a Helluva Boss fan who's seen how many views most indie projects have nowdays, plus what Vivziepop did here, especially since this wasnt just about the fanbase to begin with:

(Psst. Vivienne, these people got bills and families to pay for, so maybe dont try to push them away from other projects just because you like Hazbin Hotel? You can hire other people, you've done it millions of times before- let other projects thrive, and let them have different projects so they can be successful too! Far-Fetched barely has as any workers compared to you, so maybe stop being selfish and share the load so other projects can get all the help they can get? Especially when you rush out 5+ episodes a year and treat your staff like shit? So maybe... I dont know... treat them better so "A BUNCH!" of people from Spindlehorse wont think of even having to do so much extra work, day jobs and all, when there's 40+ million bucks sitting from your shows RIGHT THERE?! There's a reason why "a bunch" of people would be brought to do other projects at the same time. -and it's not because of all the red...)

I think it's pretty safe to say that theres an obvious monopoly going on. Why else would these episodes be getting 20+ million at a time, for years, while other just as good projects get next to none in comparison. Honestly, look at how much views, how many trends the shows follow, how much mainstream appeal, how much merchandising fills the "shelves" of Sharkrobot, how many episodes were shilled out in 2021 alone, how much it dominates the indie industry, and try to tell me that Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel are " not a monopoly!" Shilling out multiple Helluva Boss episodes full of softcore porn and bright colors a year to keep Spindlehorse's shows on top of the trending tag on Youtube EVERY YEAR SINCE 2019! -and end being what millions end up being reccomended. Though many people dont know that HB exists, many others do, and it's almost constantly being mentioned with indie animation while equally beautiful looking, or much better written projects get only 50,000+ views. Even in spite of Exxes and Oohs situation:

Season Two's premiere got 4+ million views in 15 hours.

While when I was watching the premiere of Exxes and Oohs with my freinds a couple of weeks ago after it premiered:

I noticed that it only had 1 million views in 5 hours, and then pretty much stayed that way throughout the entire week with only about 3 million for several days after Ep 1 had 4+ mil in only 15 hours.

While the premeire of Season Two passed 4+ million in LESS THEN TWENTY FOUR HOURS! -and the last episode is barely over it's despite being over 5 months apart. It's been a whole month, yet Seeing Star's views are still similar to when it was released and Exxes and Oohs is barely surpassing Seeing Stars despite a whole month having passed, while for Season One, in 5 months there would be 20+ million views and at times... more!

-and just to make this worse...

Hazbin Hotel.. a show with a pilot with over 70+ million views:

It's anniversary/sneak peak into the official show got only-

Get this...

THREE MILLION VIEWS!

-when FIVE WHOLE MONTHS have already passed and the fandom's still popular! While most of the previews for the pilot got OVER 3.5 million and the most popular being 20+ mil!

So it's really just people not caring to see the literal anniversary of the show since most were turned off by Helluva Boss or moved on because they grew out of all the stereotypes. It's got only about 0.8% of the views Hazbin's pilot has gotten despite the fact that people have been waiting for this show for THREE YEARS now and the fandom is bigger than ever. So even for that monopoly, it's slowly falling, and people barely cared about Hazbin's anniversary and release date reveal despite having waited for 3+ years.

So "Seeing Stars's" views has barely budged since release, Season Two's premiere has 20+ mil, but has also been that way since over three months ago, Exxes and Oohs only had 1 mil after even 5+ hours and onward, and Hazbin Hotel, a show with billions of fans, it's anniversary got only 3 mil- while the past season made OVER A YEAR AGO continues to receive views regularly. Meanwhile, Lackadaisy, had 6+ million in only TWO WEEKS while Exxes and Oohs barely got passed that in that time period (I remember it having maybe 5+ mil in about two weeks last time I checked, or even less that that.) and has been stagnant in views for 3+ weeks while Lackadaisy got over half of that in only 2+ weeks.

Which now makes it Helluva Boss's very first competitor.

While Murder Drones has Seeing Star's level of views after an ENTIRE YEAR so this is really saying something about the quality of Helluva Boss's latest episodes as Season One still skyrockets, the latest episodes stay stagnant even after 3+ weeks, and Helluva Boss now has a direct competitior due to this lowering in quality and just how many reviews are now criticizing it while Lackadaisy's reviews are majority positive with little to no hiccups in between.

Not joking, the first thing you get when you search "Seeing Stars Review" is thousands of negative reviews because of Vivienne, Adam, and Brandon Rodger's refusing to improve in their WRITING- you know... WHAT THEY WROTE ON A DOCUMENT?! The thing people have been CRITIQUEING?! Not "a personal, useless preference" but ACTUAL CRITICISM that they keep ignoring to look "near perfect" and to keep the monopoly going while other indie shows continue to get mediocure level views in comparison to Helluva Boss.

The views have been stagnant since near release. I remember seeing 17 million 3 weeks after it came out- and now it wont budge!

Yeah, im sure those statistics and thousands of people getting upset for actual reasons are "bad faith!" too. Adam- FUCK OFF! People aren't "bad faith" for telling you that using anti-black and fatphobic stereotypes in your show is awful! Also- you're show is now getting genuine competition so I suggest not being an egotistical jerk to your own fans and to actually listen to them for once before shit hits the fan and you have to further get hit by your own karma!

While look at all of the positive reviews Lackadaisy's getting!

Lackadaisy has almost all positive reviews, is catching up with Helluva Boss's latest episodes, all the other episodes in Season Two are also still static in views and Season One continues to get thousands on a daily basis, and yet is still- and I mean- still, Barely scratching Daisy's success! In comparison to how you'd think these "still being rewatched a lot" last episodes would be doing since this is HB, the monopoly of indie animation, that we're talking about!

So i'd say that Helluva Boss Season Two has been getting it really rough for the past 8 months in comparison to the success Season One still has, and even then, the first episode still has 54+ mil and yet most of the episodes continued to decrease by the millions each release. So even in Season One, the signs that people were losing interest were already there. -and Ozzies and Truth Seekers have just now caught up with Season Two's first episode (You know... the one people got hyped as all hell by but then lost interest once the episode started getting slammed for how terrible it was?) despite being the ones that are praised often, while Season Two's premiere has barely budged for the past year- making this a receipe for MILLIONS of lost views in total, and this is a fandom that constantly says "I binge watch the episodes a ton!" and yet Season One has barely budged in one and a half years. Its been in 30+ mil I think since last year... it's April now. -and they're now all catching up to each other and are about the same views, which would mean that they're barely going up by the thousands for ENTIRE MONTHS and Season Two, is getting even less because of the negative reviews from not a "useless personal opinion" but OBJECTIVELY BAD WRITING!

Season Two stays stagnant in views even after 5+ weeks and onward since the difference in views is that small.

THEY NOW HAVE A COMPETITOR! So Vivienne really needs to start giving a shit or WOOAH boy things are going to get intense!

So though Helluva Boss is still on top, it's falling over, and now has competition to worry about after only two weeks.

-and even then, it's still on top, because of Vivienne manipulating both her audience and staff into meeting constant demands and giving it constant praise regardless of quality under the threat of being seen as a "bad person" for not doing so.

Helluva Boss having almost billions of dollars in merch, 40+ million views with many of their episodes, a majority celebrity cast with little to no indie actors, Vivziepop having basically tried to put down Far Fetch from having any actual success by trying to not get her team with a show of BILLIONS of views to not work on it just because Hazbin is her "favorite project!" when these people have BILLS TO PAY and a FAMILY that can't be held up just by one project- which is why people like Erin had to work extra jobs, overnight, despite this show getting millions of dollars each day, in the first place! Yet to Vivienne, what mattered the most was her project, and not their lives. Which is the reason why she overworks her staff, and according to people who worked there, aren't even actually allowed to work on other projects, including Far-Fetched, either. While Far Fetched has not nearly as many people working on it and everything we see there has with has 100,000+ or less while Helluva Boss continues to monopolize the industry. (in case you're asking: Yes, it was also her supervisor's fault, but she's a million dollar creator, can't she just hire someone else instead of getting in the way of other people's lives other a cartoon show? Most freelancers do multiple projects, how else are they going to pay the bills?)

Yeah, Erin was lifted from a few things- but did they still have to work an extra job just to support themselves despite working for a 40+ million dollar show, did most people in Spindlehorse end up having to suffer even worse to meet those kinds of demands?

YES!

So does that make all the "Erin's not a real victim" or "Erin Frost's mistakes, as a human being, makes everything people say about Vivienne's behavior "not true" just because we beleive people who bootlick Vivienne but not people that she's hurt despite both people "only" using word of mouth. Except no, because no the ex-staff have evidence and yet the current staff who threatened to punch the people who spoke out about Vivziepop's behavior have nothing but word of mouth but we'll still beleive them just because they give us softcore porn! :D" comments now complete bullshit?

YES!

-and with Ashley Nichols in particular:

You'd think that Vivziepop would try to help Ashley... A LOT!

-since Ashley gave her projects millions of views in publicity and support with Hunicast and having actually worked on Hazbin!

But instead, Viv prioritized herself in the situation, fired all of her indie voice actors and replaced most of them with celebrities when she could have easily found other indie vcs but choose to use her status to get an actor from Grey's Anatomy and NORMAN REEDUS- and most likely will get more celeberties for Hazbin just because "famous = don't accociate with indie actors." appparently despite her main thing being "Support indie creators guys! :("

Vivziepop, again, pulling herself up while she's already been the top of the indie industry for the past 4+ years, while other projects continue to be pushed into the mud of a "cult classic" grave.

So in reality- Helluva Boss isnt "helping" the indie industry grow stronger, it's causing a monopoly which gets in the way of people's shows, their careers, their jobs, and even their mental health.

-and many people having little to no mentions of other projects outside of "Look at this pretty cool project I found- Ok, BACK TO HELLUVA BOSS AND HAZBIN HOTEL WOOOOAH LOOK THIS IS THE BEST INDIE SHOW EVAR!1!" is a literal monopoly in it's most capitalistic, trend serving, overproduced form.

Ashley even saw Vivienne trying to blacklist yet another staff member just because that staff member was upset about how much they were being rushed and overworked in order to meet even near the same demands, even with a few things being lifted since they have ADHD, they were still overworked, and for the rest of the staff it was even worse since they were overworked and bullied in order to meet the demands of said monopoly and stay in Spindlehorse.

Far Fetched got announced years ago- yet Vivziepop hasnt even mentioned it once as far as ive seen, she fired Ashley's partner and seeing how HB is, is likely going to replace him with an non-indie voice actor when apparently she could have easily kept them if she just paid a fee, when she has MILLIONS of dollars in support for her show now, lives in LA, and could easily use her platform to support THOUSANDS of indie projects. But as usual, she pulls herself up, bullies her own fandom by saying that they're "NOT A WRITER!" and "CANT UNDERSTAND WRITING!" for giving her any feedback and has basically manipulated her audience into seeing her and her shows as "NEAR PERFECT!" to continue said monopoly with HB's continous trending and high reviews regardless of quality. While other projects are only "secondairy". -and despite having worked on Hazbin Hotel, Far Fetched has gotten the average amount of acknowledgement for indie animation- Which, isnt much... at all.

Compared to that of mainstream shows, and especially Hazbin Hotel!

Yet as usual, Vivziepop manipulates her followers into contuining to put her on top regardless of her channel's ever reducing quality, and even views since it's lost millions since debut. With people constantly making excuses such as "ITS JUST BEEN UP LONGER!" and "ITS NOT LOSING VIEWS THE PANDEMIC HAS JUST ENDED AND PEOPLE ARE OFFLINE MORE NOW!"

Yeah-

Say that to how Lackadaisy has 6+ million in only two weeks despite being another show altogether, despite the show also having been produced in the pandemic since 2019.

It's been only two weeks yet it already has almost just as many views, and if this keeps up, will likely even have more than HB's latest episode while "EXXES AND OOHS!" has been only at 13+ since it was released. It barely has moved on inch in a entire month while Lackadaisy keeps going... and going... and going...

While Helluva Boss's latest episode has barely scratched the surface despite being just as new with only a month difference.

It's honestly messed up how Ashley was shafted after supporting Vivziepop and working for her after all this time. Same for all the other artists who worked for her. -and as Erin said:

-and seeing how Far Fetched is doing right now, this couldnt be any more evident of just how much of a capitalistic, worker mistreating, monopoly that Vivziepop's channel has become to the point where people who worked with her FOR YEARS still end up getting the short end of the stick or even outright harassed by her and her fandom, and she doesnt even defend them, she just... let's the bullying happen, let's her ex staff get slandered, let's her staff threaten to HIT THEM while only caring about shippings involving literal FICTIONAL CHARACTERS! -and last time I checked... going to the levels of not just trying to manipulate people into thinking that Vivienne is a "perfect little lamb" to gaslight people into not looking into how she treats her staff- but also THREATENING VIOLENCE over the fact that someone was actually honest about what was happening in Spindlehorse- Isnt exactly what i'd like to call "good treatment" of your staff since Vivienne let you do this to people. Hell- is- IS THIS EVEN ALLOWED ON TWITTER?! Is it even allowed for people on the platform to threaten to hurt someone on Twitter in their guidelines, hell, is it even legal to threaten to hurt someone like this at all?! Especially if it's being used to threaten people into not speaking out about actual workplace mistreatment?!

HOLY SHIT! Just let these people tell you that you need to do better, and going to the levels of threatening to hit someone for critiqueing Vivienne for her behavior even once and then going out of your way to call them "GLASS JAWED MOTHER FUCKERS!" is genuine hostility and honestly, I dont even think it's even legal to verbally harass and threaten people to this extent. WHAT THE FUCK?!

I looked into this and... yeah! What Monica did was against Twitter guidelines by threatening to hit people who were in the studio that said anything about how Viv was actually acting.

I also checked to make sure, but.... yeah, she actually wanted to hit people for saying that Vivienne was overworking her own staff by rushing and also having to work full day jobs despite Helluva Boss continuisly ranking in millions of dollars. Which means that they were getting a small percentage of pay compared to what ends up being used for Vivziepop's "spectacle!" animation. So this isn't just acephobia, but also threatening genuine violence towards people for saying that they don't deserve to be mistreated. This is vile.

Hell, even without those guidelines- it's disgusting that Vivienne let her staff talk to people this way and then also mistreated Spindlehose for all these years too. NO ONE deserves to be treat this way for speaking out, especially if all they're doing is saying what happened to them in a studio that they worked in, and the fact that everyone demonizes Erin Frost for a few mistakes but then lets Vivziepop's "favorites" threaten to HIT SOMEONE is actually horrifying.

Honestly.

Helluva Boss isnt even "INDIE" anymore, it just fills up space in the indie community while clearly being a million dollar, mainstream show that has Norman Reedus and other celebrities in it to give the "We're indie so we can do what we want just because we're smaller than Disney!" excuse to be assholes to other people for even saying something as simple as "tone down the saturation a bit."

It's a monopoly. A monopoly built on years of breaking trust, threats, more bullying, betrayal, prioritizing in fame over indie creators, worker mistreatment, rushed projects, fanbase manipulation, and it's why I have so much faith in Lackadaisy. It gives me hope, it gives me hope that one day Vivienne will finally get told to "WAKE UP!" through all that's been happening. That the monopoly will end, that the indie industry will become more balanced again, that freelance artists will be treated better and receive more respect for their craft instead of just being used to meet corperate demands. That hope... is why, that though I like Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, that I also wish for other creators to get the spotlight and that one day... maybe... just maybe... that a new franchise will take Helluva Boss's place.

So to answer your question:

Yes. By defintion Helluva Boss has become a monopoly. It's taking a large chunk of the indie animation industry, and the creators overworked their staff to meet high demands for it to get trending almost every year through high amounts of demand and episodes in 2021 alone. It's taken a large amount of control over the industry and it's come to a point where creators have to rely on supporting Vivziepop to even get a piece of what HB has. Honestly, how is that fair? How is it "fair" to overwork her staff and appeal to even the bottom of the barrels of trends to keep her show trending while most of the other indie shows on Youtube suffer for it?!

It's making the indie animation community almost as corperate as the very companies that caused these people to steer towards indie animation in the first place. Which is such a shame, because there's so many good projects out there- yet to be discovered by most people. -and yet HB gets the trending almost every time because it appeals to as many mainstream trends and porn accounts as possible through all it's fetish and ship bait content and mass amounts of merchandising, and from mass amounts I mean HUNDREDS OF PIECES OF MERCHANDISING every year, even after the show already has 40+ million dollars in it's budget so it's just capitalism and mainstream pandering at this point. The indie community went from going against corperations and capitalism to BECOMING corperate and capitalistic.

It makes me miss back when all we had mostly were just fun short films and play dough animations. It's like people in the indie community have forgotten why we even make all these animations in the first place.. Not just for money and sucess....

But for fun, to animate away from corperations... for fun.

#helluva boss season two #helluva boss criticism #lackadaisy #helluva boss critical #not putting this in helluva bosses tag since im not in the mood to be harassed and sent racial slurs by hazbin fans today.

[cloudbrooksblog]

i am :pinched_fingers: THIS CLOSE to blocking the hazbin/helluva critical tags. its so fucking irritating to read that shit, cause most of it is just nonsense! things that don't matter! "Oh no viv likes the main character and his love interest! is this why people who hate the main character are portrayed as antagonists?" like holy shit its so annoying. the show is called "helluva boss" guess who the boss is.

and then with hazbin hotel, some of the criticism i understand (like specifically the parts about racism are points i can't argue against. cause every POC i see is agreeing with it and im white so like,, who the fuck would i be to say "erm actually" about it) but the other criticism is like... "theres too many stereotypes" "angels theme song is too stereotypical" like ok some things are stereotypes but look at the parts of the characters that you're laser-focused away from. people talk shit about the bad queer rep, but like. idk man, hazbin hotel as a show hasnt come out yet. Helluva boss has some criticism against it i guess, not as much as hazbin... that might be because there's less to criticise, but i also feel like that might be because hazbin isn't out yet lmao.

and this is the thing i hate about the internet, they dont enjoy new media, they analyse it to see if theres anything that annoys them, and then if too much annoys them they shit on it endlessly because shitting on things as a group is fun.

literally people are seeing how a24 is agreeing to the asks of the unions and the first thing they do is post about how they hope vivziepop promotes the show more.

maybe wait until the show comes out! stop making yourself stressed about the future of the show! have a little patience! I know its been "yeeeears" but for fucks sake we GOT a release date. vivziepop never promised a release date before now, and now we have an estimated release date, so why not chill? why feel so entitled?

i swear. whenever a new episode of helluva boss comes out, i race to the socials to just have fun with the community that enjoys the same show i do. i think "oh boy i sure do hope i've gotten here before the haters". if it wasn't like this, maybe i'd be less irritated about the more general discourse, but this is the situation we are stuck with. Do these people realise there's an actual... regular fanbase? Like, there's a fanbase for this show that engages with it normally. We speculate on where it might go, we talk about what we like about the show, and some of the things that missed the mark (in discord servers etc). Then inevitably a viv anti comes in the discord, causes a storm in the "discussion" channel, and leaves declaring that we are brainwashed. chill maybe

#word vomit #hazbin hotel #helluva boss #rant

[ingayderzim]

not to be that person who asks a googleable question but wtf is hazbin hotel bc i googled it and the only “critical” thing i could find was a typo-ridden article of someone saying it has good animation and its haters are stupid. i was able to glean what it is/what it’s about but idk about the discourse lmao

Im actually so glad u asked this. Here's the lowdown, this is my definitive answer to hazbin shit from here on out, unless new info comes about of course.

Hazbin hotel is an independent cartoon by vivziepop. Most people (that ive seen) have agreed that the pilot of the show really isnt that great but the reason it has so many fans is bc of the entertaining livestreams, massive amounts of canon content produced (she has had these characters for years), unique art style, and the characters. (Ass ugly but unique.)

Its haters are totally justified bc of some of the "controversial" (read: bad) things vivziepop has done. Here's the conclusion that my friends and classmates (several of whom are Black, one Hispanic woman, and one trans woman...nellie if ur reading this i 💜 u) and i came to after discussing this stuff. I am NOT saying "well my black/trans friend said it's ok so i dont have to think about it!" this is based on a few different conversations that my friends and i have had about this topic so what im saying is that my opinion was formed by talking about this situation with multiple people affected by the controversy.

One controversial thing is a drawing u can easily find on google (called beastiality.jpg i believe?) It's a cropped (chest and up, but hes obv naked) drawing of vivziepops character, drawn by vivziepop, moaning, with a snake around him. The character is 17. Many people have interpreted this as child porn. I dont think this image is pornographic, i think it's a stupid joke (it was even tagged as a joke iirc) and completely inappropriate but since it's 8 years old on top of not being porn, i think it's just an example of a dumb drawing. That being said, i would NEVER argue that someone who is uncomfortable w the drawing (im uncomfortable with it! It's gross just not porn) or considers it porn is wrong. They are entitled to that opinion and i would never expose them to vivziepops work or talk about her stuff around them if they expressed to me that they disliked the image.

Another thing is that she drew a doodle of two racist TERFs. This is the one where my friends of color, my friends who are black, and my friends who are trans women took the lead. I sat back for this part and here's their and my opinion on this after talking about it and verbally going through this whole situation.

She was following these women (who had done blackface and stuff) and drew art of them. The art was a "quick doodle" that she did apologize for and she said she didn't realize the extent of their beliefs. She knew they werent great but hadnt consumed much of their content in depth. I believe her bc while ive never followed anyone as bad, ive certainly followed some pieces of shit and didnt notice for months simply bc im not online all the time and bc of the volume of people i follow, combined with the non chronological algorithms lately.

At the risk of screwing myself, im going to admit that there was about a year or so of my life where i enjoyed The Amazing Atheist. I was even subbed to him. I was a nonbinary lesbian (2 things he cant stand lmaoo) in catholic school and therefore i strictly watched his videos about theological stuff since thats what was frustrating me at the time. I had no clue the type of evil racist, transphobic, homophobic (yes ik hes bi), misogynistic things he thought, said, and did, bc i didnt watch those videos. I literally only watched select theological ones that could be of use to me while edgily debating my teachers (sorry mrs macdougal but u had it coming). I was about 15 at the time and im 19 now. Im sorry to everyone i hurt by ever having supported him. I had one of his quotes written in the inside of my religion notebook in high school. I regretted it and ripped the page out the moment i discovered the truth about him. I cant stress enough how much I HATE HIM. Thats an example of what i think happened here tho.

One of my friends who is a trans woman said (paraphrasing) "i think the worst thing shes done is that terf art but i believe the apology especially bc it was a quick drawing."

That being said, i would NEVER argue with someone who wanted nothing to do w vivziepop bc of this. That's their right. 100%. I would never expose them to her work after that.

The last thing i remember is something about a pedophilic couple in a comic but i heard it was a 17 year old and a 19 year old. Im 19 and if one of my peers did that i wouldnt say pedophile but id say ur a fucking weirdo, BUT, the kids were fake and being written by an adult so i can totally see her thinking that age gap is much less of a big deal than it really is. Like she forgot what it's like at this age. Idk how true any of that part is tho, i heard that info entirely secondhand.

Another thing to do with racism is that there's a joke within the show where one character says to the other

"don't get your taco in a twist"

"Was that supposed to be racist or sexist?"

"Whichever one pisses you off more"

I thought that was gross but one of my friends pointed out that vivziepop is of el salvadorian descent so that's her business. Like if i made a lesbian joke of equal or greater offensiveness than that and someone tried to call me lesbophobic over it id be like "that's literally my territory."

Oh speaking of which that character's name is vaggie and shes a lesbian but it's not pronounced w the same G you'd hear in "vagina." Vivziepop seems to name characters weirdly (like how in helluva boss theres a guy named blitzo and the o is silent) so maybe it's a pussy joke but i have no idea.

The animation was.................better than i could do, i wanna say the faces and gestures were good but god i remember there was a part with a car and my gf had to pause so i could laugh my ass off at it. I wouldn't describe the animation as a highlight but i liked the style in motion i thought it was a fun change. Vivziepops style is not appealing imo but i appreciate it as an art student and as someone whose friends all like she ra and steven universe where every character looks the goddamn motherfucking same, and while its chaotic and i dont care for it, the style actually works way better in motion than you'd think.

A good rule that i def use is to assume hazbin fans are guilty until proven innocent. If someone says they dont care about the discourse surrounding it and like it no matter what, RUN! They would support the show even if the creator was in fact a pedophile, or had done the blackface/was a terf herself! They probably support some horrible ppl and are probably "anti antis." A lot of them are minors tho so i'd say block and move on.

So, do i like it or not? Im an art student and all my friends like it so while i didnt think it was funny, i do fuck with it. At the convention this weekend my friends and i had a convo that led to me drawing an ahego hoodie where the faces were angel dust (a character's) face. It was a joke that i could make a killing by selling that in a booth at a con.

Theres really nothing compelling about the show but my friends like it so i join in on their conversations, and i do have a soft spot for angel dust bc he's like a worse, less amazing and gorgeous version of one of my characters, Candy, the love of my life.

A lot of people say the show was edgy/offensive and maybe im just desensitized but besides the taco thing i didnt pick up on that whatsoever??? The Archer episode "Swiss Miss" is worse than helluva boss and hazbin combined and even archer isn't offensive.

Im probably not aware of all the "discourse" (aka people being reasonably uncomfortable by weird and bad shit this random woman has done, and other ppl saying their opinions are wrong when it's literally just an opinion about a show) so if anything she's done isnt included in here it's not to defend vivziepop, this is genuinely all i know. I wouldnt describe myself as a fan of hers.

#hazbin hotel #anon