#yes she is a mrs doubtfire reference | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

thecostumeplot · 3 years

Text

Episode 20: The Birdcage & The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert

Please consult these links for accompanying images: The Birdcage: Instagram, Pinterest Priscilla: Instagram, Pinterest

Both

Welcome to The Costume Plot.

Jojo

I'm Jojo Siu.

Sarah

And I’m Sarah Timm. We're professional designers with a passion for costume design and the performing arts. Our podcast does contain spoilers. Accompanying slideshows for each movie are linked in the episode description.

Jojo

We hope you'll join us every other week as we delve into the wonderful world of costume design in The Costume Plot. [music]

Jojo

Hello, hello. And welcome back!

Sarah

Hi! Welcome back. Nice to have you here.

Jojo

Yes, definitely. Hopefully you guys have all been doing well since two weeks ago. It feels like an eon ago.

Sarah

But it also snuck up on us, because we were like...

Jojo

It did!

Sarah

..."oh, god, we have to record!"

Jojo

"Oh yeah, that's this week!" So funny.

Sarah

We're gonna be more on top of it. It's gonna be great. [both laugh]

Jojo

I know, we've already tried to schedule for the next recording ahead of time.

Sarah

Yes. Yes. And we're not doing two today, so we won't get punchy toward the end. [both laugh]

Jojo

Yes. Which is our norm.

Sarah

Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Jojo

All right. So Sarah, you want to tell us what our theme is today?

Sarah

Absolutely. So we're doing a late Pride Month theme, because technically, this is coming out in July. But I think that pride is year round. There doesn't have to just be a month for it. So we we watched a couple of classic gay movies, basically. Yeah. And we're really excited to talk about them, you know, because it's important to.... Well, I personally think I watch a lot of stuff that references both of these movies. So like, it's good to know where those references come from, for sure.

Jojo

It's so funny. Yeah, I will say I don't necessarily watch stuff that references these. But for my movie, at least, I've heard it referenced in many other ways so often. So I am starting today.

Sarah

Yeah!

Jojo

So I guess I can introduce my movie, I will be covering "The Birdcage," the 1996 version with Nathan Lane and Robin Williams. And actually, this is based on "La Cage aux Folles." I think that's how you say it. I am not French. [laughs]

Sarah

Sounds great. Oui oui. [laughs]

Jojo

Which is basically how I heard it, because that's the one that's really well known. It's originally a French-- I believe a French play.

Sarah

I think so.

Jojo

Or a musical? I can't remember if it's French, I have it somewhere in my notes. So I'm sure I'll come across them later. But that's what this was based off of. And the director, Mike Nichols, who was also very famous in his time...

Sarah

He was very famous, yeah.

Jojo

I was not as familiar with him. But of course, he was part of an improv stand up comedy act with Elaine May in the 50s and 60s, so they were really big comedy duo. And so he was a pretty big deal when this was made. So when Robin Williams signed on to the project with him, it was also kind of a huge deal for all the actors involved as well. So there's some some cool background information that I found about the movie. And it is actually their 25 year anniversary this year, I believe-- that this movie was made.

Wow, great timing on our part!

I know! I was like, "Oh, that's perfect timing." I think they actually made a bigger deal about it when it was the 20 year anniversary.

Sarah

Sure. Yeah.

Jojo

So like, I didn't necessarily find a ton of articles about the 25th. But I just thought that was interesting.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So again, directed by Mike Nichols. He really wanted to do a kind of very American version of "La Cage," so this was kind of his take at that. He's directed "Charlie Wilson's War," "Closer"... he did an "Angels in America" TV miniseries.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And then he's also done some great classics back in the day, like "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?"

Sarah

Oh, wow.

Jojo

In 1966, like, way back when.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And then in 1970, the original "Catch 22" was also directed by him, and then he also did "The Graduate" in 1967. So...

Sarah

Is he still alive?

Jojo

Ah, you know, that's a good question. I did not check that, which I probably should have.

Sarah

Hold on, lemme Google real quick.

Jojo

But it's kind of crazy... I mean,, again, I didn't necessarily have this kind of previous attachment to Mike Nichols.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

But just hearing about all of these movies that I clearly know very well--and are really huge classics--it's pretty amazing, what he's done. And the interesting thing about this movie is that he really wanted to get improv actors, right. So when he hired Robin Williams, and he originally actually was going to hire Steve Martin for the role...

Sarah

Oh, wow!

Jojo

...that Robin Williams played.

Sarah

Oh, wow.

Jojo

And then scheduling didn't work out. But he wanted them both to be able to improv whatever they wanted in this movie.

Sarah

Cool!

Jojo

And the only rule he had even, after he got Nathan Lane, as well... it was the same rule. The only big rule he had was that they always had to do at least one take just straight from the script.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And then everything else was just, they could improv whatever they wanted. Which I was like, "That's insane!" Like, I can't even imagine as a-- you know, as someone who's trying to follow a script, especially nowadays you have like a script supervisor, right?

Sarah

Oh god, yeah.

Jojo

If you're improving everything, I can't imagine trying to follow that, when nothing they're saying is in the script. [both laugh]

Sarah

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Can you imagine being in a room, though, with Robin Williams and Nathan Lane just improvising a whole movie?

Jojo

Oh, my gosh.

Sarah

I'd be like, "This is the best day of my life," and forget to call "cut." [both laugh]

Jojo

Yeah, absolutely. I just could listen to them riff all day.

Sarah

Oh my God.

Jojo

The funny thing, too, is this was kind of Nathan Lane's big break too.

Sarah

Really?

Jojo

So when he came on to this movie, there were a couple of interviews I was reading about-- I got really into the research for this, just about the movie itself, not necessarily even about the costumes.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

But Nathan was like, "I was just so enamored," because you know, he knew he was working with Robin Williams and Mike Nichols. And I was laughing because there were all these quotes about how Robin Williams didn't want to do Nathan Lane's role, because Nathan Lane is again playing the kind of "dressed up as a woman" and very matronly role. Which he was like, "I already did that in 'Mrs. Doubtfire.'"

Sarah

Oh, yeah.

Jojo

"So I don't really need to do that again." So of course, when he didn't take that role, and Nathan Lane just kind of stepped right into it so naturally, there was a little quote about how the both of them were really insecure about trying to figure out their character and figure out their humor. And I was like, "this is just adorable." I'm just picturing the two of them talking to each other. And then I think there was a quote Nathan Lane said about, like... "we're the most insecure men I've ever met." [both laugh] But yes, it just sounded like a really fun set all around.

Sarah

Oh, I'm sure it was.

Jojo

And then moving on to the costume design. Sorry, that was such a long intro.

Sarah

No, you're good.

Jojo

But this was by Ann Roth, who, of course, anybody in the costume world knows who Ann Roth is. She is...

Sarah

I don't. [laughs]

Jojo

[laughs] Oh, sorry. She one of the oldest costume designers out there. And she's kind of done everything.

Sarah

Oh, okay.

Jojo

She's the oldest woman to win a competitive Oscar. That was what I wrote recently.

Sarah

Cool!

Jojo

She actually just won for "Ma Rainey's Black Bottom."

Sarah

Oh, damn.

Jojo

Which I also want to cover at some point.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

She's been working since 1964. So even before Mike Nichols's first movie, which is crazy.

Sarah

He has passed away, by the way. He passed away in 2014. I looked it up.

Jojo

Oh, he has? Oh, man. Well, RIP Mike Nichols.

Sarah

It's amazing that she's still working, though. Wow.

Jojo

Yeah, she is still working. It's pretty insane. But she-- one of the things that she is well known for, too, is that she actually was one of the first designers to really pull a lot of vintage stock, like truly vintage stock.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

Because I think she has some kind of a quote when she was working back in the day... she was like, "a lot of the West Coast designers at that time were mostly pulling from, you know, from stock--or costume stocks--and things like that. And I had like, authentic vintage pieces that I wanted to put into my clothing." And she says a lot-- and I think a lot of designers nowadays are really sticking to this, as well, of how authentic she wants the character to be. And how informed the character costumes are. She really delves really deep into, where did this costume come from? Is it something that they grabbed from, you know, a high school Goodwill? Where did that... where did that travel from to get to that Goodwill? Like, all the kind of backstory of really creating a character behind a costume was kind of... I wouldn't say she invented it, but she certainly takes a lot of care into thinking about all those details.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So anyways, so she's done "The Girl on the Train" in 2016. I'm kind of moving backwards at this point. She did "Extremely Loud and Incredibly Close" in 2011, "Julie and Julia" in 2009, "Mamma Mia" in 2008...

Sarah

Wow.

Jojo

..."Stepford wives" in 2004. She also won an Academy Award in 1996 for "The English Patient." And then she was also nominated for the Academy Award for "Talented Mr. Ripley," but she's also done a lot of Broadway theater, she won many, many--and was nominated for many, many--Tonys. She did "The Book of Mormon," she did "Shuffle Along."

Sarah

Wow.

Jojo

She did "Carousel," she won for the show "The Nance," which I don't know very well, but that's another one she's done.

Sarah

Yeah, I've never heard of that.

Jojo

So yeah, so she's got a lot of like, really great credits under her belt.

Sarah

Amazing!

Jojo

So yeah, that's why a lot of people know her. She's just this tour de force lady.

Sarah

Now I do, too. Now I can be like, "Yes, I know who Ann Roth is!"

Jojo

[laughs] Yeah, she was one of the names that I just constantly heard. She's, like, really scary to work for, is what I've heard.

Sarah

Oooh.

Jojo

But she's pretty phenomenal. It's kind of like Julie Taymor, but of the costume world. [laughs]

Sarah

Oh, yeah. I feel like if you've been working long enough, and you had to kind of fight for your place and fight to have a long career, you kind of have a no-nonsense attitude that can seem really abrasive. And sometimes it is actually abusive.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And I don't want to excuse that, but definitely, I do think that-- especially women of a certain age, who had to claw their way...

Jojo

Oh, true that.

Sarah

...into that Hollywood career just have an attitude where they have to keep fighting, you know?

Jojo

Yeah, it's kind of unfortunate, actually. But you know, it makes a lot more sense why they are the way they are.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

Because they've had to kind of trek through all of that.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So anyways, I surprisingly-- and a little sadly, I did not find a lot of interviews with her about the costumes for this. So I will mostly be talking about how just pretty I think everything is.

Sarah

Great. [both laugh]

Jojo

But yes... so I'll give you a quick summary of the plot, for those of you who have not watched this movie. I kind of very briefly stole this off of another website because I didn't think I would be able to do this very well. But Armand Goldman, who is Robin Williams, he runs a successful drag club in South Beach, Miami, and he has a life partner Albert, who's played by Nathan Lane. Nathan Lane is also the star of his club, known by the name of Starina. Not very creative there. But so anyways, that's kind of where the start is. Armand's son Val, who's played by Dan Futterman... I don't know how to say that name either.

Sarah

I don't either.

Jojo

...Is engaged, or gets engaged, to a woman named Barbara who's played by Calista Flockhart, who you might know better as Ally McBeal.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And what ends up following is Armand and Albert's attempts at appearing straight laced--or straight--in order to try and meet Barbara's very conservative parents. The father is a senator, Senator Keeley, and he's played by Gene Hackman. And his wife is Louise Keeley, played by Diane Wiest. So really pretty big all star cast. I don't know if this is where they... well, I know at least Nathan Lane kind of got started here, but the rest of this cast is pretty well known.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And one thing that I did write in an interesting quote by Nichols... or sorry, it was by the Gainesville Sun. Which, I don't know where that is, but it said, "Nichols wanted to shoot the movie as much like a play as possible without much editing." So again, it was just so interesting that not only does he have them improv-ing the whole time, but he wants to try and just shoot a straight shot of this movie. So I was like, "Wow, that's pretty amazing." So... anyway.

Sarah

That's pretty cool, I like that. I like that idea.

Jojo

Yeah. Agreed. It was a lot of fun to kind of find out more information about that.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

I had some fun facts, but I'm gonna kind of skip those because I think I want to try to move-- talked so much about this movie already. [both laugh] I wrote a lot of notes because I was just so curious and fascinated about everything behind it.

Sarah

You have way more research than I have about mine. I watched mine late at night last night, and I was like, "This is good. That's enough info." [both laugh]

Jojo

So funny. Okay, so I'm gonna start off with-- and I had to filter it out a lot. I was really sad. And I still had more than 10 costumes. So I apologize in advance. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah. [laughs]

Jojo

And I wasn't even able to focus on all of the characters. Because really, even just between Armand and Albert, there's so many costume changes, and they're all so fascinating and fun. So I didn't want to skip on any of them.

Sarah

Yeah, because we don't have to focus on all of them, you know, but then you go, "Oh, I like this one. I like this one. I like this one, too." And then it becomes very hard to pick.

Jojo

Pretty much! Okay, so I will start off with the opening scene. And basically we start off right in Armand's... in his club. And they're trying to convince Nathan Lane to get on stage. And he has this whole dramatic breakdown moment where he's like, "I can't go on," and he's sobbing. And he thinks he's ugly, and all of this other stuff. Eventually, they convince him to get on stage. And this is his first Starina costume. So his first performance costume. I just love it. I don't know, there's not much I have to say about it. I'm not even normally a leopard print person, but I just love that he's got this matching leopard print hat plus the muff, which he makes this whole joke about. And then he's got this beautiful kind of glitter, it almost looks like chiffon, just wrapped and draped around him.

Sarah

I feel like it must be-- it looks like it's a reference to something, but I don't know what it is. You know, with the cowl?

Jojo

That's kind of how I-- I feel like there were a lot of references in this movie that maybe I'm just too young to, like, get?

Sarah

Sure. Yeah.

Jojo

Or I just missed. So I wish that I had caught... I'm sure there are things that I missed, and wish that I had caught more but by itself either way, I just... it's just so fantastic. And I did find... I think this is it. Oh, it's very tiny. I'm really sorry. But this was the full, the whole getup. And there's even a whole joke that he makes about having the tail appear, and he just pulls the tail out of his muff.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So he's like, "Oh, I caught her by the tail." There's this big joke with that. And even like, the matching leopard boots, I don't know.

Sarah

I love the boots. And I love that it has a tail.

Jojo

Just... everything about it. Yes, so much.

Sarah

So funny.

Jojo

I need to start doing that with all my muffs. Not that I carry muffs around, but you know, if I did. [laughs]

Sarah

I got my wardrobe of muffs that I just... one in every color.

Jojo

My fur muffs. [both laugh] Okay, so moving on. The other character that I very briefly wanted to touch on--again, I did not have enough room to do all of these photos--was Agador.

Sarah

I love him.

Jojo

And I can't remember the name of the actor that plays him. I forgot to write that down.

Sarah

Hector someone, right? Is that...

Jojo

Yes. Hector...

Sarah

Alon... sa ...

Jojo

Ansari? No, that's not his last name. Ah. Anyways, they will come back to me at some point.

Sarah

Hector...

Jojo

I'm gonna look-- I'll look it up.

Sarah

Alonzo. No, that's not Hector Alonzo... shoot.

Jojo

What's his name?!

Sarah

Hank Azaria!

Jojo

Hank Azaria. Okay, thanks.

Sarah

He has the same initials as Hector Alonzo.

Jojo

I was like, "I know there's a Z..." Oh, okay, that's why.

Sarah

I get those names confused. Yes, I love him. He's great.

Jojo

[laughs] But I wanted to pull all of... and again, this is only a few of his looks. Not all of them. But I love that Ann kind of gave him sort of like a Dukes of Hazzard look.

Sarah

Yes.

Jojo

Where he's always got the jean cutoffs, and the little crop tops. [laughs] Just that he's got this giant rip in the side of his jeans.

Sarah

Mmhmm. Basically underwear.

Jojo

Showing off his legs.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

Basically. Yeah, exactly. So I just thought that was kind of funny. It was... you know, it's interesting. There's so many interviews about him and how he felt like he was worried about how he portrayed, you know, the gay Latino population at the time. And I think they were trying to do a sequel, and he refused because he was like, "I just don't think I can represent this culture, or this demographic correctly."

Sarah

Wow!

Jojo

And this was also-- I think it was this was more recently.

Sarah

Right, right, right.

Jojo

Now that they've had all of these talks about representing the right group.

Sarah

Well, yeah, because I mean-- this is definitely a conversation we can have about both our movies. It's that like, at the time, being an openly gay person was not really synonymous with being a successful actor.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

So like, anyone who was gay was usually closeted. So the people who portrayed gay people in media were usually straight, or at least straight-appearing.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And nowadays, people try to cast, you know, queer people to play queer people. And I think that that's generally pretty important, especially since it's hard for gay actors to get jobs. So they should be in those roles.

Jojo

I think it's very similar to the same conversation we're having about diversity, right?

Sarah

Yes.

Jojo

Like, you know, an Asian person should be playing an Asian, not that we have to stereotype it. But like, I mean, even in these, the straight people are also... these roles are very stereotyped.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

I mean-- and again, I don't necessarily... I mean, I know people that are homosexual, but not necessarily all of them act like this.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

So again, there's a lot of misconceptions about this. This is one of the first times they're really putting it out in the open. So, you know, how much of that leeway are they taking? And how much of it is Hollywood trying to create a persona, right?

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And, you know, it's the same problem that we're having even today with diverse voices and trying to represent equally all of those voices.

Sarah

Totally. And I've heard a lot of people be like, "Oh, well, you know, actors can portray... they're actors. They can, you know, they can dive into whatever role." And it's like, sure, but if it's "give this gay actor a job" or "give this straight actor a job," queer actors have a harder time getting cast. So they should be cast in these roles that are basically FOR them. They're made for other queer people to see themselves on screen. So... yeah, that's... that's it. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah. I think that's definitely an age-old argument that I'm sure will continue for a while. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah. Yeah.

Jojo

All right. Cool.

Sarah

Anyway!

Jojo

Moving on. We went on a very...

Sarah

It's an important convo!

Jojo

...very important tangent, but yes. So this outfit is not necessarily in the movie, but I did want to pull this out because one of the first scenes that Armand is seen in, he's in this Versace, which he wears a lot of. He wears a lot of these kind of Versace shirts, which also is very Miami.

Sarah

Very Miami, yeah.

Jojo

So I thought that was really very appropriate. And I think, you know, not necessarily having lived in Miami or having had experienced that, but there is sort of a visual image of that.

Sarah

Well, 'cuz...

Jojo

...when you think of Miami from this time as well.

Sarah

Yeah, 'cuz that's where he lived. That's where Versace lived. So...

Jojo

Right, right.

Sarah

...especially in the 90s, in the 80s and 90s. It was very Versace all the time.

Jojo

Yeah. And same with Dolce and Gabbana, I think?

Sarah

I don't know.

Jojo

Is that correct? I'm not sure. But I know Dolce and Gabbana is also very well represented in this movie, so a lot of their clothes were used.

Sarah

Nice.

Jojo

So again, you know, this idea of Ann Roth really taking realistic things that they want to pull from that area, and from the brands that are nearby. I just thought that was really appropriate. So anyways, I just really liked this shirt. And he-- Robin Williams is often portrayed in this kind of a silhouette, where he's always wearing this very loose open shirt over a white A-shirt. Or for many of you, it used to be called the "wife beater." We do not call it that anymore.

Sarah

We do not!

Jojo

We call it an A-shirt. [laughs] So that's what he's wearing most of the time underneath, or sometimes a black t-shirt, or a black A-shirt.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And then he's always got these really wide kind of... they're almost like palazzo pants? But they're very billowy and it's great watching him just like, run around everywhere and kind of inwardly panic. 'Cuz he's sort of the one that needs to be kind of controlled.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

I had this interesting quote from Nichols that said, "what I wanted in our mind was the kind of suppressed hysteria. Someone who could appear perfectly straight and ordinary, but with a little something just under the surface that he can't completely control."

Sarah

Uh huh.

Jojo

"Robin played that brilliantly." So I think that was absolutely accurate. And I just thought that was so funny, that he really is obviously very, very flamboyantly dressed, but he still tries to kind of keep everything under control. Whereas Nathan Lane is kind of overly dramatic, always crying.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

Always screaming, you know, so it was just kind of a funny contrast between the two of them. Okay, next one. So I pulled this image, and this is probably the only image I've pulled of the senator-- or sorry, the Keeley family. And the only reason I didn't pull more pictures of them is because most of the movie they are in these pretty conservative, you know, suits. The mom is always in some kind of a conservative suit dress. And then even Calista is-- she's always in these braids, and it's very preppy. There's one scene where she's in, like, a flannel. And I think that's her only time she kind of dresses down.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

But the rest of the time, very, very preppy looking until the very end. And so one of the things I wanted to do with this image is just to kind of show the color contrast. Because I think Ann did a really good job of keeping this family--this nuclear family--in a very Earth tone, kind of grays--and some monochrome charcoals and grays--but it was mostly in the gray family.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

Or maybe some beige, but that was about it. So like, you don't really see them go anywhere else. And then in contrast, when they arrive in Miami to meet Robin Williams and Nathan Lane, then it's this huge contrast of just colors, patterns, everything.

Sarah

Yeah, Miami is a very colorful place, just like... on its own.

Jojo

Yeah. Okay, moving on. So this is all within maybe the first, like, 30 minutes of the movie. [both laugh] So this is why I had such a hard time filtering, but I just love this outfit. Like, again, this is still him kind of not necessarily dressed as Starina, but it's another one of his acts in the performance, and he's supposed to be playing a clown. But I just love that he's got these-- the pink gloves are just like... I just think it's such a great touch. And then the top hat, and he's kind of got this clown... it's almost like a cross between a sailor with the striped vest.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

Versus like, you know, the traditional clown with the oversized flower and the patches on his jacket. And I also have a full body shot of this.

Sarah

[laughs] Look at those shoes.

Jojo

I just thought it was-- I mean, you never seen his shoes in this movie.

Sarah

Oh my god.

Jojo

But I just thought it was so funny that, you know, they have the full look.

Sarah

Wow.

Jojo

But yes, what a character. I mean, Nathan Lane must have had so much fun with all of these costume changes.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So... not too much to add to that. Yet another Nathan Lane. And this is when they find out Val is is home with them.

Sarah

Uh huh.

Jojo

So he goes out and basically is shopping in the... it's basically this really quick shot of him just walking through the marketplace in Miami. And I just-- I don't know, I just love this whole outfit. Again, there's not much notes that I have for any of these costumes really, except that they're just... they're just so great.

Sarah

I love how his vibe is kind of... Golden Girls-y?

Jojo

Yes, very much so.

Sarah

He has a glasses chain and like, a little collared shirt. [both laugh]

Jojo

It's so cute. Yeah. And then the little bag. And I think these are... I think they're pink, or like a peach color, kind of pant. And in the-- again, I don't know if this is Versace, but it looks very Versace pattern?

Sarah

The chain. Yeah.

Jojo

In terms of-- yeah, the chain, and then the vest. It's kind of a vest. I don't know.

Sarah

I mean the chain print, the chain print is very Versace.

Jojo

Yeah, yes.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jojo

So I just-- I just love it. And then this is when he arrives home, and again Agador is just in his little Dukes of Hazzard jean shorts. [laughs] And again, this contrast of the two of them, obviously Robin Williams is still very flamboyant. But he's kind of-- he's got like, it's almost like a... it's not a smoking jacket. I know it's a robe. But it is sort of one of those things where I feel like he feels like the more austere of the two of them.

Sarah

Sure.

Jojo

And Nathan Lane is just kind of like the flighty, always waving his hands everywhere and always saying something in high pitched voices.

Sarah

But that creates a balance the relationship. Right? You can't both be like that. You need one...

Jojo

Yes.

Sarah

...you need to balance each other out. [laughs]

Jojo

Absolutely, absolutely. Even just the little glasses, I think it's just such a great touch, all the little details that she includes on there.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

One of the other things that I wrote down, too, is that he's-- Robin Williams is always wearing these three gold chains. And both of them are always wearing a ton of gold rings. So I don't know if-- and again, this is kind of where I feel like I'm not the expert in terms of like, what is culturally appropriate for this group, or this community. But like, all the gold rings that they're wearing, it just felt like a very... I don't know if it was just something associated with their specific club, or just the two of them, or if it was something that is common in Miami in the homosexual community. I don't know. So that was kind of a question, I guess, that I had.

Sarah

Yeah, I don't have an answer. I don't know a lot about Miami or gay culture in Miami in the 90s. But if anybody does, feel free to tell us!

Jojo

Yeah, definitely. It was just-- it was an interesting choice. I mean, because it definitely worked with their character, but I wasn't sure if that was just a character thing.

Sarah

I've definitely watched the "American Crime Story" on Gianni Versace. And I feel like he was constantly covered in rings. So maybe it's just like a style thing. A late 80s/early 90s Miami thing of lots of gold jewelry.

Jojo

Yeah, definitely, because Nathan also makes a comment about how he takes off all of his rings in order to become the straightlaced, conservative man.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So I just, you know, I thought it was it was an interesting question that I had about, you know, the character. But back to the necklaces that-- or the chains that Robin Williams is wearing. It's interesting, because I couldn't figure out what two of them were, but there is one that's clearly a Jewish Star of David, which you don't really... I mean, they don't make any comment on the fact that they're Jewish until, like, the last maybe 10 minutes of movie.

Sarah

Interesting.

Jojo

But it's, you know... again, it's such a tiny detail. But like, clearly Ann Roth has thought about like, okay, even though he... you know, he doesn't necessarily exude like, "I'm this Jewish," whatever. It's like a little kind of commentary on what's important to him, and that he still wears that as a symbol.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

So yes, anyways, that I just thought that was interesting. Moving on. Okay, another great Nathan Lane look. [laughs] Again, just prepping for performance. But I also just wanted to pull in, even though this movie was made in in the late 90s, there's definitely a lot of late 80s references and the kind of-- you know, the leotards and the workout gear from the 80s. All of that kind of gets carried over. And again, you know, these are... they're clearly very flamboyant. And they're clearly very comfortable in who they are. But I just thought that it was so interesting that she had set a lot of their costumes in... back in the late 80s. And setting isn't really ever established in this movie.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

But I think there's so much more fun prints, and things like that, that are happening in the 80s. So part of me wonders if they were setting it in that time, or if she was just trying to bring back those things, because it was so fashionable and trendy,

Sarah

I think it's probably carryover. I think that we forget, kind of, because we look at the... we look at the decade as a whole and we say, "Oh, well, these are the hallmarks of this decade." But we kind of forget that a lot of things carry through, you know. It doesn't end at '89 and go into '90 and everybody's like, "we're gonna dress completely differently now." You know, things kind of bleed into each other. So I definitely think that aerobics gear was still happening in the 90s. It was probably just like, different colors, different cuts, kind of thing.

Jojo

Yeah, definitely. So yes, I just-- again, I just love this look. Not too many notes, like I said, just really fun outfits for Nathan Lane. And just interesting seeing him in this kind of a role, too. I mean, I think he does play a lot of these kinds of roles. But I think it's just fun to see him, you know, really own this character.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So there's another-- I think this is the Dolce and Gabbana shirt...

Sarah

Mmkay.

Jojo

...that he's wearing, because I think there's actually... there was some kind of an auction that I found the same image on. And they were like, "there's a label that says 'D&G' on the inside."

Sarah

Hmm!

Jojo

But he's also got these... you can't see it in the picture. But supposedly, they're actually silk yellow-and-green striped pants.

Sarah

Ooh.

Jojo

So like, even though the color doesn't read as bright here, it's just... you know, again, this idea of really bringing in color. And the mix of patterns, I think, is so fun too. And again, still holding to that same silhouette. I think it tells us a lot about Robin Williams's character. And again, it gives us so much about who he is. And yet when he plays the character, because again, there's so many stereotypes about what a homosexual character acts like, and looks like, and all of these things. And I think Robin Williams really made a very balanced acting choice of kind of carrying him a little more subtle.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

As opposed to like, the traditional and stereotypical homosexual man.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So I pulled this image because this is one of the ones that I think was probably my least favorite. And not because I think it didn't add to the comedic factor. Like, I think that part of it was very successful. But this is when they're out on the beach. And it's this picture and, I think, this one.

Sarah

Hmm.

Jojo

This is kind of a better idea of what they're wearing.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

But I think I was just a little confused about this. Like, it almost looks like pajamas.

Sarah

Pajamas, yeah. [laughs]

Jojo

And I know, obviously, that is my contemporary look at this matching set.

Sarah

I don't know...

Jojo

But I was also trying to find images of this in the 80s. And I was like, "everyone around them is wearing these..." you know, there's a whole scene at the end where senator Keeley is driving into Miami, and there's all these people rollerblading in little thong bikinis and stuff.

Sarah

Yeah. [laughs]

Jojo

And I'm like, "who is wearing this to the beach?!" Like...

Sarah

Just, like, full long sleeved pajamas.

Jojo

Yeah. And like, even Nathan Lane, I think when I first looked at him, it almost didn't register that the bottoms were white. It almost looked like he was wearing also a matching set of pink gingham and pink on the bottom.

Sarah

Huh.

Jojo

So yeah, I think-- I mean, at least for him, when I see the full suit, it looks a little less weird. Like, he just kind of looks like he's trying to cover himself up at the beach. And maybe this looks a little more like "Miami Vice" or something? Like, he kind of was sort of wearing a suit?

Sarah

Yeah, it looks like maybe it's linen, you know, summer weight. But still, on the beach, you would think that they would look like they're on the beach. [laughs]

Jojo

Right. And like, he's only in this outfit when he's under the umbrella. The rest of the scene, he's just in this. And I'm like... I'm very confused. [laughs]

Sarah

It just seems like a lot of clothes.

Jojo

With everything else they're wearing.... Yeah, with everything else they're wearing in the rest of the movie, I think this look for both of them... I was very just kind of thrown off. I was like, "this seems very 'not them.'"

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So yes. I'd be curious to hear what Roth's thoughts were on this choice.

Sarah

Yeah. Me too.

Jojo

Or like, where these outfits came from.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

Okay, moving on. So... another great look for the two of them. So halfway through when they basically are trying to meet Senator Keeley and his wife.... So the son Val basically doesn't believe that Nathan can play a straight man, because at first their idea is to have him play the uncle who's just kind of, you know, close...

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

...close to the family. And then they just-- they don't think that's gonna work. So Robin Williams--or Armand--ends up deciding to come up with this idea to contact Val's true mother, who was how Val was conceived.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

And so they try to get her to come for the dinner. There's all kinds of mishaps that happen with that as well, so Nathan Lane ends up dressing up as a woman to play the wife. However, when they go to visit the mother, this is the outfit that they show up in. And I just love that, you know, Nathan Lane's just-- I love the yellow, first of all. I think that that was a really nice touch of tying them together. And I think, again, Ann Roth does this really great thing about being able to tie groups together so you can really associate them together by color. So the fact that, you know, he's got this kind of matching yellow patterned shirt, and then he's got a little tie there. What did I write on my notes? Let's see. I put, "Albert's personality sort of reminds me of a little bit of a 50s/60s housewife." Still very "Golden Girls," I think, with the neckerchief. And even the little hat, and again, the rose-colored glasses. Or... I guess they're not really rose, they're kind of more yellow in this case.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And then kind of comparing that to Armand's very masculine suits, which remind me a lot more of the very quintessential 80s.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So I just think it's so funny that he really does play the part of kind of the traditional housewife to a certain extent, and even when he dresses up as the woman, too. Obviously very opinionated about certain things, but I think he definitely plays the part very well.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

So I think this is just another picture. Yeah. So just to show the bottom pants that he wears with this beautiful yellow outfit on top.

Sarah

I love the yellow.

Jojo

I do, too. I was like, "I'm not normally a yellow person." But this yellow just looks so great. And I love his little hat too, the little short brimmed hat.

Sarah

You always say you're not into yellow, and then you always are excited about the yellow looks. [laughs]

Jojo

I think it's really just-- it's like, there's specific colors of yellow that I really like. Like, I'm really into ochre.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And I really like that kind of... it's almost like a buttercup yellow.

Sarah

Uh huh.

Jojo

Like, those two yellows, I think I'm more okay with. It's like, when you go into neon, that's usually when I'm like, "No thank you." [laughs]

Sarah

Ooh, I love a neon yellow. I love neon anything.

Jojo

[laughs] Yes. Okay. So in contrast, I wanted to show a quick shot of Val. And then Armand when-- you know, when he finally dresses up to look like the straightlaced man.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

The sad thing is, they end up taking down all the decorations in their house. They basically take out all the inappropriate statues and artwork and all these things to basically try and make the house look a little more conservative, to try and trick the girl's parents. And this is Nathan Lane, when he's in his suit. [both laugh]

Sarah

Oh my god.

Jojo

So this is when he makes the whole joke about removing all the rings. And then, you know, it's so funny because he spent like five minutes trying to figure out how to sit down, because he doesn't know where to put his hands. [laughs] Without looking super femme.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

And then, of course, Robin Williams asked him about his pink socks. And he was like, "well, I just thought a pop of color would be helpful." [both laugh]

Sarah

Aww.

Jojo

So yes, again, this was obviously-- he did not end up going and showing up like this. But it was just funny that he made this attempt to try and look like a straight man. And then of course, this is his female version, when he finally shows up as... you know, the missus. They pretend their name is Coleman instead of Goldman.

Sarah

Uh huh.

Jojo

So then he comes in as Mrs. Coleman. And it's interesting, because I think when they interview Nathan, he mentioned something about being inspired by Mrs. Bush.

Sarah

Oh, yeah!

Jojo

I just thought that was so funny. It was like, "Yeah, I can see that."

Sarah

Yep.

Jojo

So like, you know, just the way that she's dressed, the pearls. But just the tie--the bow--around the neck. And yet, still a ton of pattern. So... So yes, I just thought this was hilarious, and I think this was just such a great moment, because he kind of just shows up out of nowhere and gives them no warning. Like, they are not expecting him to dress up like this.

Sarah

Amazing.

Jojo

And then Senator Keeley and his whole family is like, totally just... they have no idea. They just totally think he's the wife and don't even bat an eye at the fact that he's dressed up as a woman. Like, they just think he's a woman. [laughs]

Sarah

Love it!

Jojo

It's great. Okay. And then the final scenes, there's a couple I just wanted to-- I wanted to show more of the performers in drag in the club, because there is a scene at the beginning where they enter as well. But this last scene I just thought was just so funny. Because this is also how they get the Senator Keeley family to escape. Because right when they're about to say like, "okay, no, we're not going to have you guys get married"... When they find out the ruse is all up, they find out Nathan Lane is actually a man. Val finally--the son--finally stands up and says "this is my mother." Whereas he's kind of a jerk throughout the movie. Because he's constantly like, "you have to change this. You have to be this other person. You have to... you know, you have to get rid of these, you can't do this." And then it's finally at the very end when he takes the wig off and basically says "this is actually my mother." And then Senator Keeley basically is like, "you can't marry my daughter." But then he gets stopped by the paparazzi outside and so, of course, to avoid even more scandal their idea is to dress up the Keeley family as drag queens and basically waltz them out the front door.

Sarah

[laughs]

Jojo

So this is the final performance. I just wanted to show some fun photos for our audience and listeners. They decided to do a black and white theme, but it's also very like "Diamonds are a Girl's Best Friend" kind of incorporated in there as well. There's a lot of glitz. And this-- I just wanted... I don't even know who this is. This is not anybody that shows up anywhere else in the movie. [both laugh] But he just somehow shows up at the very beginning...

Sarah

That is quite a jacket.

Jojo

Sorry, at the.... Yes, I just really like his jacket. And also, I don't know what's going on with these pants.

Sarah

I don't either.

Jojo

He's got like, I can't tell if it's on a side pocket or if that's actually how it closes? Or if this is just giant safety pins, or if he's just got rhinestone right at his crotch?

Sarah

Ooh!

Jojo

Like, I don't know what's going on. But it's a lot. And then of course, all the ladies that you can see, varying levels of very 80s prom dresses, almost.

Sarah

Stunning.

Jojo

With all the glitz and glam. And then the last three shots are just-- this is our Gene Hackman and his drag. [both laugh] He's clearly the most uncomfortable. But it's funny because actually, when they pulled him out in this first shot, I was almost like-- I almost didn't recognize him. I was like, "who... which... who is who is that? Which character is that?" But yeah, so I just thought that was really funny. And then the mom, Dianne Wiest, and each of-- it's funny because then Robin Williams, Nathan Lane, and Val all end up dressing up very gentlemanly. So Nathan Lane is in one of his more masculine looks for the very end, which I find ironic.

Sarah

[laughs]

Jojo

So that they can pair with their drag queen to lead them out.

Sarah

Uh huh.

Jojo

So he ushers Dianne Wiest out. And then of course Val, at the very end, leads Ally McBeal. I'm gonna keep calling her Ally McBeal. [both laugh] He leads Barbara out in her outfit. And I think she's one of the ones that I was a little bit like, "I'm not..." I feel like they overpowdered her a little bit. Just a little more vampy, scary.

Sarah

Something looks very severe about it. Yeah.

Jojo

Yeah, definitely a little more powder and white makeup than I think was necessary, especially since the other two still look very... I don't want to say "normal," but they look a little bit more natural.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

So it's like, what's going on with this look? Was this an actor choice?

Sarah

Huh.

Jojo

But I do love her dress. I love all the sequins and...

Sarah

It's cute.

Jojo

And just everything over the top.

Sarah

We love a sparkle.

Jojo

So yeah, that is my coverage of all the things "Birdcage."

Sarah

Great job! Yay!

Jojo

Thank you! Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Like I said, I think the biggest thing that was successful was... Ann Roth really did a good job about separating with color. The different families, and even the two groups.

Sarah

Totally.

Jojo

Minus Val. I think Val was probably the most normal looking.

Sarah

Mmhmm.

Jojo

And yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I spent a lot of this movie just being angry at Val. 'Cuz he's kind of a jerk. [both laugh]

Sarah

Well, yeah, it's... yeah, I mean, it's tough because at the time, I guess, it was normal to be ashamed if you came from a family like that. But like, nowadays, we're like, "come on, man." Like, it's your parents. Have some respect.

Jojo

So funny. But yes. So... I'm glad they redeemed him at the end.

Sarah

Me too. Me too. Okay, let's do it. So I'm very excited to talk about this movie. Oh... come on computer, you can do it.

Jojo

[laughs]

Sarah

Because I had never seen it before. And when I said that at work, there were a lot of gasps in the room. Because it's both an iconic gay movie and an iconic costume movie.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So this is "The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert" from 1994.

Jojo

I also have not seen this movie. So I'm excited.

Sarah

It's... I went in not knowing what the plot was at all. And it wasn't about what I expected it to be about.

Jojo

Ahh, interesting.

Sarah

'Cuz I saw the costumes and I expected it to be this fantasy thing. And it's not, it's about three drag queens--well, two drag queens and a trans woman--who are on a road trip, basically.

Jojo

Ooh, okay.

Sarah

Like, that's kind of all it's about? The plot is not... like, not a lot happens. They're just on a road trip. That's the whole story. So it's from 1994. Directed by... I don't know if it's "Stephan" or "Stephen" Elliott. Sorry to Mr. Elliott. I don't know which one it is.

Jojo

[laughs] That's okay.

Sarah

So this is an Australian movie... so I pulled it up, because I have forgotten. Okay. I don't recognize any of his other titles. He did a movie called "Swinging Safari," "A Few Best Men," "Easy Virtue." These sound a little bit like they could be porns, not gonna lie. [both laugh]

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

I don't think they are. I don't think they are. [laughs] Okay.

Jojo

Yes, I definitely don't recognize any of them either. So...

Sarah

Yeah, and I think that Australian... you know, some movies don't make it across to us from Australia or the UK or any other country.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

Some of them do, but not all of them. So the costumes were by Tim Chappel and Lizzy Gardner, they're a little team. Tim Chappel has done some "Masked Singer," a 2006 "Red Riding Hood," and he also just has a lot of credits as not the designer, but just in the costuming department. Or as the assistant, on things like "Miss Congeniality."

Jojo

Ooh!

Sarah

And he is the associate designer on "The Dressmaker," which is a movie I've heard a lot about, it's a Kate Winslet movie.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And I have not seen it, but it's on my list.

Jojo

I haven't seen that one either.

Sarah

And then Lizzy Gardner did "Mission: Impossible 2," "Peter Rabbit," "Hacksaw Ridge"... so she works a lot.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And my first picture, actually... depending on how I can squeeze my images, this might not be on the Instagram slideshow.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

But this is Lizzy Gardner at the Oscars when they won.

Jojo

Whooooa!

Sarah

So this movie won Best Costume Design at the Oscars. It is the last contemporary movie to win for the costuming Oscar. And we've talked about this a little bit, I talked about it in my "Roman Holiday" coverage, which is that there used to be a black and white costume design Oscar and a color film one.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And it used to be that the black and white movies were often contemporary. And then the color ones were the big spectacles, the fantasies, the musicals. So when they combined the two in '67, I think, contemporary movies basically stopped winning the Oscar because it's hard for them to compete against big spectacle movies.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

Yeah. So, you know, this was in the 90s. So it's kind of wild to me that no contemporary movie has won since then.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

So... anyway, back to this dress she's wearing.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

This is... where's my note? Here we go. She gained worldwide attention when she picked up her award wearing an unusual dress consisting of 254 expired American Express gold cards. [laughs] So let's zoom in.

Jojo

Oh my god!

Sarah

Look at that.

Jojo

Whaaaat!

Sarah

And they originally made this dress for the movie. And then they cut it because American Express was like, "You can't do that," basically.

Jojo

[laughs] So she wore it to the red carpet instead.

Sarah

Yes! And after the dress was worn by her, the company saw its marketing potential. And they were keen to showcase the dress throughout its travel offices in the United States. And then it was-- the dress was auctioned off for charity. And the proceeds went to AIDS research. And it has been cited as amongst the worst Oscar gowns of all time, which I think is a load of baloney, because it's great! [both laugh]

Jojo

That is hilarious.

Sarah

Isn't it?

Jojo

I mean, it fits her super well. Like, maybe it was if it was on a different body and it didn't look right then it would be a different story. But I feel like...

Sarah

It looks like a 20s sort of fantasy, just made out of gold cards. I could see maybe shortening it?

Jojo

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah

To make it just...

Jojo

I was thinking that too. Like a little sheath or something.

Sarah

Yeah, to make it just sort of less of a column. But I think it's iconic.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

And does not deserve to be on any worst dressed lists. Okay...

Jojo

So funny. So funny.

Sarah

So another tidbit is that there's an iconic scene where they are basically... there's like a scene where he's like, "I've always wanted to climb this one rock in full drag." In a showgirl costume, basically. Climb in the Australian outback in drag.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And initially, they tried to get permission to film on Ayres Rock, which has now been renamed to the indigenous name Uluru. But it was rejected by the organizations responsible for the monument, as it would have been in violation of Indigenous Australian religious beliefs. So basically, since it was a queer movie, they were like, "No, no, you can't film on our rock."

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So I thought-- I just thought that was kind of interesting. So they had to-- like, in the script, it said... I think it probably said Ayers Rock. And they had to rewrite it to be a different... they filmed... I didn't write down where they filmed instead. But they filmed somewhere else.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

So yeah. Okay.

Jojo

Interesting.

Sarah

Yeah. And it's like, nowadays, if someone did something like that they would get so much heat and flack for rejecting a movie just because it had gay people in it.

Jojo

Right, right.

Sarah

The budget for the costumes on this movie was $20,000.

Jojo

....WHAT?!

Sarah

Which is... hardly anything. [laughs]

Jojo

That's nothing! Oh my gosh.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

That's crazy.

Sarah

This is a low budget movie. I don't have the numbers for how much the movie itself cost. But it was basically like an Australian indie flick that they didn't expect to blow up as much as it did.

Jojo

Right. Right.

Sarah

So yeah, these costume designers were working with a budget. They were doing basically like dollar store couture. You know, thrifted sort of stuff.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

Lots of DIY.

Jojo

Well, if they took American Express cards that were expired, I get it.

Sarah

I know. It's like, okay, so where'd you get all those expired gold cards then? Where do you get those? [both laugh]

Jojo

Sourcing everyone she knows! [laughs]

Sarah

Okay. Oh, they later went on to design the stage show. So there is a stage musical of this story.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And they designed the costumes for it, which I think is wonderful. And their costume budget for the stage show was $1 million. [laughs]

Jojo

That's crazy. I mean, that sounds a lot more closer to normal. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah, could not be more different. And then, I actually watched some clips from the stage show. And I was like, "Oh, yeah, this is way more expensive." Like, so many more people are in drag and in huge looks in the stage show.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

Okay, what else do I have here before...? Oh, right. Just... I watch a lot of Drag Race. I'm a Drag Race fan.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So I know a bit about drag just from that. And I have seen this movie referenced more times than I can count, and so I knew some of the visual references to it. And I especially was struck by how similar it looks to the HBO show "We're Here," which is like a reality series with three "RuPaul's Drag Race" drag queens, who basically go into small towns, and they sort of do a "Queer Eye" makeover, except they do a drag makeover. And it's sort of like a little docu series. And so a lot of the shots of them basically walking through these small towns-- they literally get off a bus and they walk through small towns in full drag. I did not realize that that is a direct reference to this movie. So I just got really excited.

Jojo

Ahhh.

Sarah

Because I was like, "dang, everyone references this movie!"

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So yeah, that's my...

Jojo

Now it makes sense.

Sarah

Yeah, it totally does. Okay, so basically, your basic plot. It's not that complicated. There are three people--two drag queens and a trans woman--who are on a road trip because one of them... whose boy name... his nickname is Tick, but his drag name is Mitzi. He books a show. But what he doesn't tell the other two is that he has a wife, he's technically still married, and he has a son.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So they're basically going to... I did not quite catch some... okay. I don't know if I'm just, like, stupid. But some of the plot details completely went over my head. So I don't know if the wife runs the place that they go to. It's like a club, or like a hotel.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

She works there. I know that for sure. Also... the accents. A little bit, sometimes, hard to understand. [both laugh]

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

I'm very sorry if I get these details wrong. So basically, he tells them sort of after they're already on the road, like, "oh, also, we're going to see my wife and kid" and they're like, "wife and who what now?" So... yeah. And so then along the way, they kind of-- they break down and they meet people in these tiny little Outback towns. They have some incidents with homophobia, a lot of homophobia.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And basically, yeah, it's kind of just like a slice of life, almost, because nothing huge happens. It's just a roadtrip movie. Kind of like "To Wong Foo," which is also about three drag queens on a road trip, but that's an American movie. So... parallels.

Jojo

Oh, okay.

Sarah

It came out after this movie.

Jojo

Interesting.

Sarah

Okay, costumes. Let's do it. This is Tick, a.k.a. Mitzi.

Jojo

Oh!

Sarah

Yeah. And this is the quickest shot, which I was like... they made this costume for the smallest little scene. But I had to grab it because I'm obsessed with it. It's a chandelier.

Jojo

Yeah! Oh, my goodness.

Sarah

And this is basically the scene it flashes back to when he finds out that his son is being born. So he's in the hospital. And he's clearly like, come from performing in this costume to go see his son be born. So he's standing in the hospital dressed as a chandelier, which I think is wonderful.

Jojo

Is that an octopus on his head?

Sarah

It looks like... yeah, looks like a face. A face of some kind. And then it goes.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And then I was like, is it touching an actual chandelier on the ceiling? I don't know.

Jojo

It's so hard to tell! It's pretty amazing.

Sarah

I LOVE this. Ugh!

Jojo

That is insane.

Sarah

And it lights up! How did they... how did they make this movie for $20,000, costumes? I don't understand.

Jojo

Yeah. Seriously.

Sarah

Did they borrow this from someone?

Jojo

I feel like this one alone, cost... that's crazy.

Sarah

I know. I think a lot of people involved in the movie didn't get very big paychecks either, you know.

Jojo

Probably.

Sarah

So like, maybe the cost was a lot of sort of unpaid people who were just working on it because they knew the people and were like, "sure, we'll work on a movie."

Jojo

Yeah, or volunteers or something.

Sarah

Yeah. Okay. So this is them. I kind of skipped over everything before the road trip, because it's not really all that interesting costume wise.

Jojo

No worries.

Sarah

These are the looks that I immediately recognized. I was like, "Yes, I have seen these before." So on the left, we have Mitzi. In the middle is Bernadette, who is the trans woman. On the right is Felicia, I can't remember his boy name because they, like, never say it, but played by Guy Pierce. And then this one in the middle, oh, I forgot...

Jojo

That's Guy Pierce?!

Sarah

Yes!

Jojo

I do not recognize him at all. That's insane.

Sarah

Here, I have this. That's him. That's Guy Pierce. Isn't that wild?

Jojo

Whaaat! That-- yeah, I totally did not... did not expect that

Sarah

Yeah, my sister was like, "I don't know what I know him from," and I was like, "'Mare of Easttown,' the HBO show we JUST watched." [laughs]

Jojo

That's awesome.

Sarah

I can't remember the actor who plays Bernadette's name, but he's a very well known British actor. Apologies to him.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

I don't want to look it up. And then this is Hugo Weaving of "Lord of the Rings."

Jojo

Oh! Oh my gosh.

Sarah

...And "V for Vendetta" fame.

Jojo

I can definitely see that. I can see, it's his cheekbones.

Sarah

And the brows, he has very angular brows. Yeah.

Jojo

[laughs] Yeah, yeah yeah.

Sarah

So this is them basically in their first sort of like... small town stop. They're going to stay in a hotel. And I think they just decided to dress up just because this is how they live their lives. And they're like...

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

..."we won't be stopped from being fabulous." I like that Bernadette is clearly sort of... she dresses very purposefully and is always really made up. And I think she is sort of like old Hollywood glam inspiration.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And yeah, I think if this movie were made today, she would not be played by a cisgender man, I think she would be played by a trans woman. But this is from 1994. So. And then I love this flip flop dress.

Jojo

I do, too. I was just looking at that.

Sarah

They said they made it for $17. [laughs]

Jojo

I mean, they probably just took old flip flops...

Sarah

Yeah, yeah. I have a feeling that they were really scrounging, you know, whatever they could do.

Jojo

This must have been a fun craft movie, almost.

Sarah

Yes!

Jojo

Because you're essentially stringing together things-- like, found objects almost.

Sarah

Right. It looks like they're held together with maybe like a zip tie or something.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

This flip flop dress is what you will see recreated a lot.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

Like, I just watched Australian Drag Race, "Drag Race Down Under."

Jojo

Ohhh.

Sarah

And there were "Priscilla" references, including one of the queens... they always do a makeover challenge, where they make over-- usually it's a straight man. I can't remember who they made over, honestly, I have the worst memory. But she basically had the flip flop dress and this blue dress, little sort of like... homages to them. And they were very cute.

Jojo

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Sarah

And then this wig. I love it. What is it made of?

Jojo

Straws?

Sarah

Straws? It looks like phone cord or electrical wire?

Jojo

Oh, yeah. Oh my gosh, I can't.

Sarah

I love it.

Jojo

That looks so crazy.

Sarah

I love. Love, love, love. Okay, and then there are several scenes where the bus-- the bus is Priscilla, by the way. I had no idea. [laughs]

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

I just assumed one of them was Priscilla.

Jojo

Yeah, I definitely would not have known that.

Sarah

But Priscilla is the bus. [laughs]

Jojo

Got it. Got it.

Sarah

She's a character.

Jojo

Thank you for explaining that. [both laugh]

Sarah

You're welcome. They said that, and I literally was like, "Ohhhh..." I felt kinda dumb.

Jojo

Like, all this time I'm expecting a person.

Sarah

"Where's Priscilla? Oh, she's the bus." Okay. So basically there's two scenes where Felicia, Guy Pierce's character, is sitting on top of the bus in full drag while the bus is in motion. In these amazing-- so I'm gonna start with sort of the faraway shot. Look at that.

Jojo

Whaaat!

Sarah

Yeah, and then this is sort of like the profile of it. I love it.

Jojo

Oh my goodness.

Sarah

I know. Oh, I should-- I'm gonna have to censor that when I put it on the Instagram. It has the F word on it.

Jojo

Oh, got it.

Sarah

As you can see, the bus gets vandalized by some homophobes. Oops, what did I just click on? Sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, there we go. [both laugh] Ohh, technology. Okay, so then this is what he's wearing as he's...

Jojo

Oh my goodness.

Sarah

It's just like a head to toe silver sequin.

Jojo

Every time I see a new costume, I'm just like, "I can't believe they did this for $20,000!"

Sarah

It gets crazier as you go! I even-- I had screencaps of the second, because he does this two times. He does it in a pink look too. Oh, and he's sitting in a giant silver high heel. I don't think I have a picture of that. Oh, there it is. You can see, yeah.

Jojo

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Sarah

Giant silver high heel.

Jojo

I was trying to figure out what that was around him. That's insane.

Sarah

Yeah, so he does it in a pink outfit too. I cut it because I had too many pictures. But... I just love. And the scene is like... for no reason, either. It's just for fun.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

He's lip synching to a song. He's just living his best life.

Jojo

Oh my gosh. [laughs]

Sarah

I also really like... so I didn't really pull any of their boy looks, except for him, because I loved his boy wardrobe. This is one of this outfits.

Jojo

Ooh! Yeah.

Sarah

This is when he's painting the bus pink. It's like, overalls, but then he rolls it down and... Guy PIerce is extremely hot, like... that really helps. [laughs]

Jojo

He's got a good body.

Sarah

Yeah. I just love-- I love the boots and these yellow glasses/goggles. And then the green plaid, I just thought was really fun.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

It's almost like he's like, "this is my work outfit," you know?

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So then they do-- this happens, this is Hugo Weaving's character. [laughs]

Jojo

Oh my goodness.

Sarah

This is them performing. They basically happen upon a bunch of people in the desert who are sort of like camping out, and they perform for them. And then they perform with them. And I think they're Aboriginal people [correction: Sarah should have said "Indigenous". Apologies!] because it kind of... they sing "I Will Survive." And then it sort of mashes that up with sort of a tribal sort of song.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

So they're performing together. And this is a wig made out of fake flowers, I think. And it's fantastic. I love it. And then they're wearing these, which are sort of like the other one where I was like, "I recognize this," you know.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

They're basically jumpsuits and they're bell bottoms, except they're-- the fabric of it is like... at the bottom of the bell bottom, it's stretched around something. And I have a picture of them walking. So you can see.

Jojo

Yeah. Oh, my goodness.

Sarah

I've def-

Jojo

It's almost like mini hula hoops or something.

Sarah

Yes! Yes, yes, it looks...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And it sort of-- it shows the sole of it. And I had a picture of it, but once again, I cut it because I was like, "too many pictures." It's like, flat and sort of like a half circle. So it's like, when they stand together, it makes almost like a circle shape. Their two feet.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

And I really want to know what it looks like on the inside. Like...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

...I want to know what sort of situation you have to do on the inside of this to...

Jojo

To make it sit out like that.

Sarah

Yeah!

Jojo

So crazy.

Sarah

It's so cool looking, and when-- you know, when they're dancing, it's super effective.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

In the stage show...

Jojo

I'm laughing because the flower wig makes me think of the "Midsommar"...

Sarah

Yeeeeeaaah!

Jojo

...flower dress that you did-- or, that you were talking about. I was like, "Whoa, it's so weird." [laughs]

Sarah

That's true. Oh, my gosh, callback.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

Callback to a previous episode.

Jojo

Not quite so scary on this one.

Sarah

Right. Right. And then in the stage show, the whole ensemble comes out in these jumpsuits.

Jojo

Whoa.

Sarah

Yeah. So it's quite a sight, to see a whole ensemble where the people are walking around in these crazy, crazy outfits.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

Okay. So this is Cynthia. And I think that we need to have a discussion about her. [both laugh]

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

Because I learned... I was reading the Wikipedia, and the movie has gotten some heat and some controversy because of this character. She's basically the only character of color. Besides the Aboriginal [Indigenous] people that they talk to.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And she is Filipina, I believe.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And she's... I thought at first that she was like a mail-order bride or something.

Jojo

Uh huh.

Sarah

But I think that they-- he meets her somewhere, and they're partying and drunk and then they drunkenly get married. This guy, he's sort of like a... oh, he's a mechanic, I think he works on the bus for them. So that's how they meet him.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

And she's basically portrayed as extremely erratic. She's like, very high and low. Like, she'll be really manic, and then be crying the next second. And she's kind of portrayed as just like a party girl and very weird. And so a lot of people have said that this is a really problematic representation of Filipina women.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And I think that that's probably a very fair criticism.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And I read-- on the Wikipedia, it said that the filmmakers were like, "Well, you know, everybody in the movie is a misfit. And we just saw her as another misfit." And it's like, okay, well, if you can't see it, then that's a bit of a problem too. Like, you need to at least be like, "okay, you might be right."

Jojo

Or at least bring in consultation.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

I think that's something I've been... you know, I mean, I'm glad we're having this discussion, because that was something that... what was that new reality TV show? It's the one with all the Asian people in it, and I can't remember what it's called.

Sarah

Oh! Is it the rich one... where they're really really rich?

Jojo

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sarah

Oh shoot, what's that one called? I didn't watch it. Let me try to Google.

Jojo

But again, it's like all these Asian characters are portrayed as these kind of very vapid and sort of... you know, party people that do that do kind of go through all the different emotions. And there was a lot of conversation about, you know, "are we excited that this is how we are being represented as Asians? Or were we excited that we're even getting represented at all? And that we're showing that Asians can play any role, including maybe the not-so-likeable"... Or maybe the more vapid, you know, or stuck up or whatever.

Sarah

Yeah. So the Netflix show is "Bling Empire."

Jojo

Yes, thank you.

Sarah

Yeah, I've seen clips from it.

Jojo

I was like, "I know there's a 'bling' somewhere." But yeah, so it is-- that's something that I think I've been... it's been making me kind of re-wrestle with my normal, like, "what do I normally think about Asian representation?" Because like, yes, we aren't represented enough. But also, we don't just want to be represented as the smart Asian or the fetishized Asian, or whatever, you know? Because we don't want to be stereotypes. So that means we should be able to play every role.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

Just like a white person would be able to play any role.

Sarah

Exactly. Yeah.

Jojo

So I don't know, I guess that is something that I think I always... I still have a question about. So it makes me wonder, even with this role, that having her show a different side of Asian representation... obviously, if it's something that's not accurate at all, that's a totally different story. But yeah, I guess I mean... not trying to justify, necessarily, what the directors and producers were doing.

Sarah

Right.

Jojo

But it makes me wonder what the intention behind it was.

Sarah

Right. And the other thing that is problematic is... so this is her later, in the bar.

Jojo

Mmm. Mmhmm.

Sarah

And at first her husband is like, "Oh, she's not coming to the show at the bar, because she has problems with alcohol." And then it shows her later, breaking into this locked cabinet in their house. And we're meant to assume that that's where the alcohol is. But it actually turns out to be full of ping pongs... ping pong balls.

Jojo

[laughs] Okay.

Sarah

And then she shows up at the bar in this outfit and starts performing. And it turns out that she's doing a show with the ping pong balls. [both laugh]

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

I think by your face, you might know what I'm saying. We're keeping this a family friendly podcast.

Jojo

[laughs]

Sarah

She does something inappropriate with the ping pong balls.

Jojo

[laughs] Uh huh.

Sarah

So I think that was another part of the criticism, is that like, she's doing this weird exoticized... sideshow, almost. You know? And it turns her into sort of a caricature.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

And not a real flesh and blood human.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Yeah, I can definitely see that.

Sarah

But... I do love this outfit. [both laugh] I love her zebra outfit.

Jojo

Yes. So funny.

Sarah

Yeah. So this pink dress is from when they're at dinner. And the first time we meet her, she's very dressed down. Almost like, you know, she's sort of acclimated to the bush, her Australian outback lifestyle.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

But then when she has people over for dinner, she's gonna dress up. And so she wears this very skimpy, little revealing hot pink dress. And this is also sort of meant to communicate to us, like, "Oh, she might be a little bit-- what's up with her?" Like, she might not be normal, or she might be a little... I don't want to say "slutty" because I don't use words like that.

Jojo

Risque?

Sarah

Yeah, risque. You know.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

I feel like the audience is meant to judge her a little bit. And I'm definitely uncomfortable with with that.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

'Cuz I saw her and was like, "ooh, she's cool." And then my sister said-- so my sister has seen the stage show. And she said that she does do the ping pong ball number, but it's turned into a whole song. She gets her own song.

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

And she has way more of a backstory in the musical, apparently.

Jojo

Ahhh.

Sarah

So I think they fleshed her out a little bit more--tried to flesh her out more--and made her less erratic... made her behavior less... yeah, erratic-seeming. I don't wanna say "crazy" 'cuz I don't call people crazy. [laughs] Just dancing around all the words I'm trying not to use. Ah, anyway. Okay, so yeah, those are my thoughts on that. I really like her outfits. So she's got that going for her.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

When she leaves, she-- so her time in the movie is very short. She basically drives off and leaves him. Which it's like, "yeah, you probably should. He doesn't treat you well." She's wearing a very amazing silver spangled bra.

Jojo

Oooh.

Sarah

Which I also didn't have space for in my pictures. [both laugh]

Jojo

Too many photos.

Sarah

I know. Maybe I'll throw it up on the Pinterest.

Jojo

Pinterest board.

Sarah

Just add a bunch of bonuses to the Pinterest board. Okay, so all that we have left now is basically sort of the finale. And this is...

Jojo

Oh my goodness.

Sarah

I know. This is their number that they perform at the hotel. They finally arrive, and they perform this number. And at first I thought that it was showing a passage of time, like they were doing the show multiple days. But then at the end of the scene, it's clear that it's the same night. So they do these quick changes that are literally humanly impossible. [both laugh] So it's sort of-- that is sort of a fantasy, where it's like, "oh, and suddenly they're in a different outfit," you know?

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

These ones...? Not my favorite. They're... you know, they're very campy and fun, just like everything else. But I'm unclear how they relate to each other.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

And they're performing, you know...

Jojo

Kinda looks like a dandelion in the middle.

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

But like, crossed with a lion? [both laugh]

Sarah

A dandy lion. Yeah, yeah, it looks-- it's clearly sort of floral. The theme with the two on the right is floral. But then Mitzi on the left is just wearing a flapper-y...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

...sort of number.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

It's a little disjointed.

Jojo

RIght.

Sarah

I like the looks... I mean, I like the yellow one the best. And then the other two are just kind of wacky, but fun.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And then change into these. [laughs] So these are like, ostriches or emus? I don't know.

Jojo

Emus, yeah.

Sarah

Do they have...? It's emus, right, in Australia?

Jojo

Emus are in Australia. Yes.

Sarah

So that's amazing. I don't really have much else.

Jojo

I also love that they're different colored feathers. [laughs]

Sarah

Yeah. And it's like the feather of the breast of the bird is their wig.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

Very nice. Very nice. They have really fun makeup in this, too. It's very frosty and blue. Love. ...Oh, I was-- I haven't been looking at my notes at all. And I forgot all these things I wanted to say. [laughs]

Jojo

That's great. No, you're good.

Sarah

I want to briefly talk about sort of maybe how drag has evolved and changed since this movie was made. Because, A... obviously these--I think all of these actors are straight--men would not be playing, probably, drag queens in a movie if it was made nowadays. But also, I noticed that a lot of the drag looks are not heavily padded, there's not a lot of like, female illusion that is happening.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

You can tell, you can always tell, that they're not "passing" as women.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

And I think that drag nowadays... so in my extensive "Drag Race" watching, I've noticed that in the early days of drag race, queens used to get critiqued if they didn't wear a lot of padding, and if they still sort of looked like a boy.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

But nowadays, a lot of queens are not padding at all, and they're still... and they're excelling at drag. So it's like, we've gone from extreme to extreme. And then now it's like, they can all sort of coexist.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

Because some queens really care about looking feminine, and then some kind of don't. So I think that that's really cool. Because like, it creates diversity in drag, you know, and diversity is important in all aspects of life. And all forms of drag should be acceptable forms of drag. So I found it interesting that like... the makeup, too, in this movie is like... it's not fooling you. [laughs] Does that make sense?

Jojo

Yeah. Right, right.

Sarah

And this is pre... you know, I've heard older drag queens be like, "you know, before YouTube, before beauty tutorials, you kind of had to just figure it out on your own or learn from your fellow drag queens, your drag mother or your friends," you know?

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So it's like, they were kind of just making it up and going, "Well, this looks good." And ...it did. It looks good!

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

So that's what I wanted to say. I just found it very interesting that like, it's never... the drag in this movie is not really about looking super feminine. Even though one of them is a trans woman. It's clear that she's being played by a cisgender man who is not on hormones or anything.

Jojo

RIght.

Sarah

So he's still looks very masculine, even though he's playing a woman. So... that's that on that. I felt like that was really a long monologue. [laughs]

Jojo

That's okay.

Sarah

I just really like drag, okay?

Jojo

I think we both went on very long monologue today. [laughs]

Sarah

That's okay. That's good. That means that we're excited to talk. I also feel like when I clock myself, I'm always like... I always feel like I'm talking for a really long time. But lots of times, I could talk longer. So this is me talking longer.

Jojo

Right.

Sarah

Anyway, okay. I only have a few pictures left. Okay, so this is also from the finale number. And this is like, they're lizards. Like, [puts on very bad Australian accent] Australian Outback lizards. [both laugh] That was my accent.

Jojo

Thank you for that accent. [both laugh]

Sarah

You're so welcome. So this lizard look is like... it's down, and then they like, put it over their shoulders so that it's like a... you know those lizards that have the crown...

Jojo

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Sarah

...that sort of puffs up?

Jojo

Like the old dinosaurs?

Sarah

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly like that.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So that's what this is. And then I assume that those lizards also have black tongues, because their tongues are painted black. [laughs]

Jojo

Okay.

Sarah

Very fun. This is my favorite, coming up here. So this is sort of like a Marie Antoinette homage?

Jojo

Oooh.

Sarah

Light up wig up here, and then a cage crinoline with hardly any skirt over it. I love that.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And then they make the Sydney Opera House out of them!

Jojo

Oh my gosh.

Sarah

Isn't that cute?

Jojo

That is really cute.

Sarah

So it's like, organza and some sort of hoop thing, and then they're holding it and they're dancing around and then they make this little formation and it's the Opera House. I think that's really fun.

Jojo

Ohh, so cool.

Sarah

So Australian.

Jojo

Is this a stage that they're on?

Sarah

Yeah.

Jojo

Like, what's happening in the background? Okay.

Sarah

This is at the...

Jojo

Like, where are they?

Sarah

...club/hotel that the wife works at, which is where he's booked the gig.

Jojo

Okay. Got it.

Sarah

Oh, and then basically at the end, she comes-- she and his son come with them back to... I think they're from Sydney. So like, they go back so that he can spend time with his actual son. And then Bernadette, the trans woman, actually stays behind with this guy who was married to Cynthia, but... his name's Bob. But they basically-- it's implied that they're like, going to start a romance and live together and so she stays with him.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Okay.

Sarah

It was sweet, but I was also kind of like, not really willing to forgive him for how he treated Cynthia.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

'Cuz he was not nice to her. Okay, only a couple more. So this is them finally doing the rock climb in drag. And I pulled these pictures because I love... I think what makes this movie iconic is the juxtaposition of these really extreme showgirl-y, campy drag outfits and the wilderness of the Australian outback. [laughs]

Jojo

Mmhmm. Yeah.

Sarah

There's just something so amazing about them in full getup just against, like, red rocks. I just love it.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And then here's sort of a close up of those outfits. Very nice. Very nice.

Jojo

Oh, my goodness.

Sarah

And then I have one last boy look of Guy Pierce's to talk about because I'm obsessed with these pants.

Jojo

Oh my gosh, those are great.

Sarah

Look at them! I would wear these.

Jojo

They're like leggings.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah, they're clearly stretchy. Once again...

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

...his body looking very correct. Love it.

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

I love his lil' headscarves he wears. Oh, he's wearing a bracelet around his bicep, which I was like...

Jojo

Like a cuff?

Sarah

Yeah, you can kind of see it in this picture right here. It's metal. And it's like, around his bicep. [laughs]

Jojo

Oh, I see, I see.

Sarah

Is that it? Yeah.

Jojo

A fun one to end on.

Sarah

Yeah. Oh, and I just wrote-- so they... at the end they change into outfits that are like, not as good compared to all the other ones. So it's definitely like, it helps you sort of... it keeps that sort of DIY. Like, clearly these are not rich people, but they love the art of drag. So they're just excited to wear sequins and stuff. I pulled them and then I had to cut them because I just...

Jojo

Not enough. Not enough space.

Sarah

...wasn't willing to sacrifice any of these. Exactly.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

So yeah, that's it. That's "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert."

Both

Woohoo!

Jojo

Good job!

Sarah

Thank you.

Jojo

Those are some fun costumes for sure.

Sarah

It's super fun. And now I'm excited to be like, "Yes, I understand the reference completely," when other people reference it, you know.

Jojo

Mmhmm. Yeah, I mean, even with "The Birdcage," I'm kind of like, "Oh, now it makes so much more sense." Like, I understand.

Sarah

Yes. My favorite part of that movie is when Robin Williams is in the dance rehearsal. And he's like, "Martha Graham, Martha Graham, Fosse, Fosse!" That's the best part. [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah, that's the one that's, I think, quoted the most too. So I'm always like, "Oh, yeah, that makes a lot more sense." [laughs]

Sarah

As a dancer, I always just really loved... I appreciate a little dance joke, you know? [laughs]

Jojo

Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. The whole time. I was watching the movie, all I could think of is like, RIP Robin Williams. Like, why aren't you here anymore?

Sarah

I know. It's...

Jojo

Made me very sad.

Sarah

It's truly heartbreaking that like, someone who brought--especially people of our generation--so much joy, suffered from depression so much.

Jojo

Yeah.

Sarah

And it's just like a real reminder that like, even if someone is really good at comedy, and makes other people laugh, it doesn't mean that inside, they aren't suffering. I think a lot of people who are really funny actually, like...

Jojo

There's such an inner struggle.

Sarah

Yeah, yeah. I think that a lot of comedians struggle with mental health stuff. And it's like they use comedy as a coping mechanism, you know?

Jojo

Yeah. Scary and sad. But anyways, I did appreciate the movie.

Sarah

Good! I'm glad you liked it.

Jojo

Not to end on a sad note. [both laugh] But yes.

Sarah

My friend Kayla and I, pre COVID times, were trying to get together and have gay movie nights. Just because we're both fans, you know?

Jojo

Mmhmm.

Sarah

And we watched... I think we managed to have two, because we're both really busy. We watched "Mamma Mia," and then we watched "The Birdcage." And we need to reinstate...

Jojo

Oh, "Mamma Mia."

Sarah

"Mamma Mia" is so good.

Jojo

That's a fun one, too.

Sarah

It's-- I mean, it isn't good, but it is. You know what I mean? [both laugh]

Jojo

Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, that is our episode for today.

Sarah

We did it.

Jojo

How did we do on time? Oh, we went a little over.

Sarah

Yeah, we can cut... I'll, you know...

Jojo

That's okay. We'll cut some things out. [both laugh]

Sarah

We'll see what ends up getting cut. Yeah, don't forget to rate and review us. That's how people find us. And we are still donating $1 to Dress for Success for every review we get. And also, if you don't have time to leave a review, you can just hit that five stars and that counts anyway.

Jojo

Yeah, absolutely. Still a review.

Sarah

Yeah. So please do that. We appreciate it.

Jojo

Definitely. Well, thank you so much for listening. We hope to see you on the next one.

Sarah

Yeah. Take care!

Jojo

We'll see you soon.

Sarah

Okay, bye.

Jojo

Bye.

Sarah

I almost pressed the "leave" button. [laughs]

Jojo

I did too. I was like, "Oh, end!" [both laugh]

Sarah

I was like, "BYE, Jojo!" [both laugh]

[OUTRO]

Jojo

Thank you for listening to The Costume Plot! You can follow us on Twitter and Instagram at @thecostumeplot. If you have a question, comment, or movie suggestion you can email us at [email protected].

Sarah

Our theme music is by Jesse Timm, and our artwork is by Jojo Siu. Please rate and review us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

0 notes

abdicatedarchive · 3 years

Text

what was lost, and now is finding nemo || chase and gabrielle

𝐖𝐇𝐄𝐍: gabrielle’s house // late february.

𝐅𝐄𝐀𝐓𝐔𝐑𝐈𝐍𝐆: chase x gabrielle.

𝐓𝐑𝐈𝐆𝐆𝐄𝐑𝐒: mental health references.

𝐃𝐄𝐓𝐀𝐈𝐋𝐒: chase comes over to spend time with his daughter, and his ex girlfriend.

Chase unlocked the front door and headed into the house, "Gabrielle, I'm here" he called out as he put his keys down on the front hall table. He headed into the kitchen and smelled what was cooking, "Smells good, where's the princess? Uncle Chase is here" he said with a smile. It hurt his heart to come here the first few times, but this was just routine at this point. Yes, it still ached, but it was getting better. It was different ... knowing that it was his fault. These visits always made her so anxious. To be honest, most of the time she was doing her best to avoid Chase but when visit times came around, she just felt very vulnerable and she did not like that. Especially when there was no one else at the house. BUt it had been pretty empty in the Hale Mansion lately. "I'm in here." Gabrielle replied to him as she opened up the oven and pulled out the chicken parm she had made. "Right there." She replied and pointing in the direction of Genevieve who was playing her her toy kitchen set up. "Hello Genevieve, it's your favorite uncle" said Chase with an exited expression as he approached his daughter, "You've been nice to your sister?" he asked. The girl nodded and ran over to him so he could scoop her up. Chase picked her up and spun around a few times before holding her in his arms. "Chicken parm? One of my favorites" said the boy to his ex. Things were definitely weird, but he did his best to ignore them. Gabrielle placed the pan down on top of the stove to settle as she moved to the cabinet to pull some plates and set the table. She thought that she would be use to it, hearing words like uncle and sister, but it still deeply bothered her. She hated living a lie and lying to her child but it was the agreement. Gabrielle nodded. "Yeah. I know." She replied to him as she moved to the fridge to pull out the parm cheese and some drinks and placed them out before grabbing the last of the things needed to set the table. "It's ready." He would never get over sitting at the dining room table and having her cook for them. It was so weird. He was used to cooking with her, or ordering pizza and sitting around the carriage house. Forgetting about food and just focusing on being together. "Sounds good" he said with a small smile as he put Genevieve down on her booster seat. Chase grabbed himself a drink and headed to the table, "How are your classes? How are you doing?" he asked, to make conversation. He didn't really know what they should talk about. Since going to college and her dad leaving for longer gaps and the older kids being out of the house, she had to do more, juggle more. It wasn't that they couldn't afford someone to cook the meals and watch Genevieve 24/7, Gabrielle preferred to do it herself. Genevieve did day care until Gabrielle picked her up. She hated getting raised by nannies growing up, though they did have one that was part time to help out while Gabrielle focused on school work. Gabrielle put the food on the table, the chicken parm, the veggies and all that and started serving it on plates and passing them to Chase. She kept Genevieves plate infront of her as she began to cut up the chicken for the toddler. "Classes are good. It's still early into the semester, so can't really tell if I like them or not." She replied simply. "I am doing fine. Nothing to complain about." He took his plate and put it down in front of him. He was glad that she was eating, it was good. Things were good. She was doing better without him, and it was more important for her to be doing well than for them to be together. Chase took a sip of his drink while he waited for Gabrielle to sit down at the table so he could start to eat. "Nothing to complain about is good" said Chase, replying in the same way. Sometimes it was like pulling teeth to talk to her, "Thank you for cooking, it looks delicious." Gabrielle finished preparing the toddlers plate before putting it in front of her. Gabrielle then took some food for herself before sitting. Gabrielle had a lot of ups and downs but the recent weeks have been more up, thanks to the copious hours of therapy she was forced back into. She kinda ;liked it though. She enjoyed being able to let it all out. Though she was in a good point she wasn't perfect yet, but she was proud of the accompaniments she had achieved so far. "How are your classes?" She asked before she started eating. "No problem. I do it all the time. It's no big deal." She said with a small smile. She hated how much she was struggling to hold up this conversation, but just seeing hom brought up those bad memories of graduation, him dumping her and the painful summer that followed Chase cut a piece of food and ate it, she really was a good cook. He also missed food that wasn't cafeteria food from time to time. "Classes are good, living with Jonah is good" said the boy, "Jules has been in the room for JuJo time. Did you know that they sit in actual silence for hours? Imagine being quiet for hours? I can't. Sometimes I have to leave the room because I'm worried I'm going to cough or something." At least they still had Juliette in common, not that he talked to her about much. "It's not like they have music on, or a movie. They just have their things and they sit there quietly. I think they might be doing it to drive me crazy, and that they talk up a storm right after I leave. But that's just a fan theory" he continued. Moments like this Gabrielle was glad Chase talked a lot. It filled the gaps at times where she didn't know what to say. "Thats good." She replied as he said he liked living with Jonah. She had a bit of fomo being the only commuter out of all her friends, like she was missing out but at the same time she choose it so she could be with Gene at home. "Yeah thats weird. Whenever She's here she talks." Gabrielle replied simply. She felt a bit guilty, not telling Juliette that after she left her and Stevie became good friends, close friends. Bonding over her absence. "Some people just enjoy the silence, its comfortable." She added in. "Possibly, but I don't think so." But if there were, she would find that pretty funny. "Have you told her that you and Stevie are close?" Chase asked, he was curious. It was one of the benefits of Juliette and Jonah sitting in silence, there was less of a way for him to mess things up for Gabrielle. "I do know she has not talked to her yet" he added. Chase knew how to sit in silence, but he reserved that for when he had alone time. He liked the comfortable quietness when he was by himself, but when he was with other people, the impulse to talk was too strong. "I assume the three of you aren't going to be hanging out anytime soon." Gabrielle shook her head. "I have not, and I rather not." She had this little idea in her head, an idea that of she worked both sides she could get them back together and they would be happy and Gabrielle could feed off that happiness and feel good about something. "Yeah. I know that too." She added in. "She's avoiding her." She added in. She wasn't sure if Chase heard about Juliettes gathering yet, but she knew she didn't want Stevie to know. "I can only do one girl at a time. They got to many issues." "Are you Mrs. Doubtfiring her?" said Chase with a little laugh, "Before you know it you're going to take them both to the same restaurant and keep going to the bathroom so you can switch tables and talk to the other one." The idea was so hilarious to him, an actual smile appeared on his face. "I gathered she's avoiding her. I haven't heard Stevie say anything about her being here. You know how they are. They don't really shut up about each other, and Stevie's still talking to that sophomore right?" he added as he took another bite of food. "You doing girls is a special occasion, round two with Jules?" he teased. It felt like old times, her complaining and him joking. It was a familiar rhythm. "No. And its not really anyone's business who I am friends with or spend my time with." Gabrielle replied back a tad bit defensively. "That would never happen, plus Stevie knows I'm friends with her." She added in as well. "I'm not sure if she knows she's back, but I won't be the one to tell her." Gabrielle said, respecting Juliettes wishes. "I don't know. Probably." She said in response to who Stevie was seeing. In Gabrielle's mind, the other girl was irrelevant, she was just holding Juliettes spot for the time being. Gabrielle let out an awkward laugh because she didn't really know how to respond. Gabrielle continued to eat as she looked up with Genevieve who was holding her food with her hands. "Genevieve, drop it." The girl looked up and let the food drop to the plate before picking up her small fork and using it. Chase noted the defensiveness, clearly he had hit a sore spot. "Yeah, but remember the Juliette/Chanel incident? You know how she is about loyalties and people being honest" said the boy, not backing down. "Definitely let her fly under the radar, but we both know they will be getting back together the second Stevie sees her. I would be shocked if they didn't." Chase was honestly shocked him and Gabrielle had been broken up this long, "The boarding school thing was a blip, it will be like no time has passed" he said, mostly talking about him and Gabrielle. If they got back together, it would be like nothing ever happened. At least, that's what he hoped. That's what happened every other time for them. The difference this time was that he had been with other people in the meantime, which he didn't want to advertise ... but it was a difference. Chase took another bite of his dinner, "She's growing up so fast" he commented. Gabrielle nodded and didn't comment for a moment until Chase was done speaking. "Exactly, they will be back together really soon, and I don't want my friendship with Stevie while she was away to drive a wedge in them getting back together." Gabrielle pointed out. The Chanel incident was different, at least in Gabrielle's mind. "Exactly." She agreed, though she thought he was still meaning Stevie and Juliette. Of course she missed being with Chase but a lot has changed, they weren't the same people they use to be. Chase liked going out and having fun with the boys, partying and such while Gabrielle slowly started to adjust her life to being a full time parent and there was nothing wrong with that. "She's being a brat today. Give it 30 seconds and she will pick it up with her hands again, she's in her testing her limits phase." "It'll play out the way it should, I don't talk to either of them about it. I don't want to rock the boat" said Chase, it was just different because Gabrielle was really close to both of them. Best friends level. It was harder. He chuckled when she called their daughter a brat, "To be fair, I have been in the testing my limits phase for the last three years" he teased her. Chase finished up his dinner, sneaking glances at her when he could. These broken up dinners definitely tested his ability to hold out on her, and he was growing weak. "Yeah I feel you on that" She said with a nod. It was hard for her to play double between them. She nodded. "You got that one right." She said with a laugh. He had been testing limits but so has she. She also finished up before looking at Gene, "You donee baby?" She asked as she got up and took both their plates before moving and taking chases. Chase put his hand on her's as she reached to grab his plate, "I got it" he said as he got up and went over to the sink. He started rinsing off the plates and putting them in the dishwasher, "So, what are your plans for the night? Do I get you assistance? Or are you going to disappear again?" He preferred when she stuck around, but he knew that this was hard on her. It was hard on him too.

Gabrielle nodded and pulled her hand away, she couldn’t think of the last time her physically touched her. Gabrielle scratched the back of her head. “I don’t want to intrude on your time with her, plus it’s like the only time I get to myself. What do you want? I can stay if you want me too.” He didn't want to keep her from her only alone time, "No, it's okay. Go ahead and have your free time. That's more important than hanging out with me" he said earnestly. He truly did mean it, he wanted what was best for her. "Go and enjoy yourself, the two of us will be down here." Chase gave her a reassuring smile and put the last of the dishes into the dishwasher before going and scooping Genevieve up. Gabrielle felt a sudden wave of guilt as he spoke. "No its okay. I didn't have anything planned really besides a nap." She said with a shrug. Gabrielle put the left overs in a tupperware and into a fridge. She had a soft genuine smile as she did, this is what she saw their future as before he dumped her, eating a family dinner cleaning it up together, it was cute. "I mean my grand plans were putting on finding nemo and letting her play with her toys. So you could go nap and then come back when it's bed time?" he suggested. He didn't want her to feel like she needed to stay, he wanted her to, but it was probably for the best if she didn't. "I got this, go get a nap in" he said putting his hand on her shoulder to show that he meant it. Gabrielle smiled softly, "Good thing I can love finding nemo." She said as she walked over and opened the door to the basement."I know you got it. I can always nap to finding nemo." She said beforee she went down the stairs to the play room. "Sounds like a plan" he said with a smile as he carried his daughter down into the play room. Chase put her down by her toys and she immediately occupied herself with her things. Chase put on the movie and sat down next to Gabrielle out of instinct. "Do you think they'll find nemo this time?" he asked with a serious face. Gabrielle watched as he put Gene down and she moved and took a seat on the couch, picking up the remote and turning on the the tv and pulling up disney plus. "Hmm. You can never tell, but I'm hopeful they will find him." She sid before turning on the movie. "Yeah it's always a toss up, you never know if he's going to touch the butt or not" Chase joked as his daughter came up to them and climbed onto the couch to sit next to him. "Come to join Uncle Chase?" he asked, and she nodded her head. Chase smiled at his child, sometimes he forgot that she was even his. They were so deeply entrenched in the lie at this point. “I mean if it were me I’d always touch the butt.” She said with a laugh. “Though sometimes I’m in the edge of my seat seeing if he will swim away fast enough.” She added in. She watched as Gene climbed up to join them. “She loves the fishies” Gabrielle added in. Gabrielle pulled her legs up and rested her chin in her knees. Chase laughed along with her, "Don't I know it" he teased. He knew it was a risky joke, but what was life not on the edge sometimes. "I mean it's always a toss up what is going to happen, but somehow the exact same thing happens every time" Chase replied, watching her body language change. She was clearly guarded, and he knew that was his fault.

Gabrielle let out a tad awkward laugh to his response. “I think they call that movie magic” she said raising a brow. It’s like soul surfer, you know that shirt is coming for her but every time it’s like shock all over again.” She said with a nodd. She let her arms wrap around her legs, she just found comfort this way, holding herself close. She knew by doing this there was no way she would accidentally touch him.

And she retreated into herself more, classic. It was weird just being her friend, and they weren't really even friends. They were exes who managed to spend a decent amount of time together. "Your tik toks have been good" said Chase, knowing that she had been basically @ing him in all of them. He wanted to show he wasn't bothered.

Sometimes she didn't know how to interact with him. It was probably because she didn't really know how she felt towards him. "You watch those?" She said as she turned towards the movie, her cheeks turning red. "Just trying to get my work out there."

Of course he had seen her content online, he was shameless in his continuation of following her. "It's better than ever" said Chase sweetly, putting his hand on her knee and giving it a friendly pat. "You really have come into your own with the designing" he added.

“Thanks I’ve been working hard” she said, her hands instantly falling down to his hand on her knee. “ I mean.. I’ve always been good so it’s no big deal but now I’m just better but like... it’s no big deal.” She said getting a bit flustered, a good flustered too. I’m just trying to get my work out there for the people, not just gene. Her wardrobe is all GHale.”

Her hand on his felt good, but there was something distant about it all. Like they weren't coming back to where they were at for a long time. "Well if you want to get into male fashion, I can come by and bring the boys if you wanted" said Chase, offering to spend more time with her. He hated how empty this house felt.

Gabrielle pulled her hand away, mainly bc her writer thought she wrote eyes and didn’t proofread. “Maybe. But I also have Gino as a test subject, and the other guys in my fashion classes.” Maybe she partly wanted to strike a bit of jealousy in him. “But either way, I think I’ll stick to woman’s fashion, I’m much better at it. Plus I already have three lines in the making.”

Chase laughed, he knew that she wanted him to be jealous, but the thing about Chase is that she basically had to show it to him to make him jealous. He thought back on the time he punched a guy at a party for her, what a wild night. "I see how it is, but none of them have this great of hair" he joked.

Gabrielle shrugged. “I’ll spare your feelings and agree.” She said as she tossed her hair over her shoulder. She snuck a little peak over at him. “I’ll add a hair brush to your Christmas list.” She said playfully

He played offended for a moment, "Okay blondie, you're getting hair dye from me then" he joked. Chase stuck his tongue out at the other girl, and Genevieve joined in. Moments like this, they felt like an actual family.

Gabrielle rolled her eyes. “When will people accept that I’m staying natural.” She said shaking her head. “Man looking back, dying my hair purple... what a time. Such an impulse. It was actually terrible.”

"It was not that bad, you just needed the change of pace" said the boy, he knew a lot had been going on at that time. It was right before her mom got cut out of all of their lives. He was endlessly thankful for that, thank God.

“It was pretty bad. Totally cringe there.” She said before looking over at Genevieve. “Is someone getting tired over there?” The blonde questioned. With her knees still brought in, she ran her hands down her legs scratching her shins gently. She didn’t know what else to say, she was a poor conversationalist. “Maybe it’s bed time soon?” She added in. When in doubt talk about the one thing they had left in common: their kid.

"In ten years maybe you'll think it was cute again" said Chase, always the optimist. He couldn't help it, he was like a golden retriever. Always seeing the good in things, even if it meant having to wait a while. They sat and watched the movie for a bit before Gabrielle suggested it was bed time for Genevieve, "Yeah, let's get this girl upstairs" said Chase as he looked over to their daughter and picked her up. She loved story time with Uncle Chase, because he does the voices. There is no greater skill in this life than doing the voices during story time. "You ready for story time with Uncle Chase?" he asked excitedly and she clapped her hands. Chase headed upstairs with the girl and took her to the bathroom to brush her teeth.

“Maybe.” She replied with a shrug. She put her attention towards the movie, she herself was getting a bit tired. “Yeah we should.” She said getting up, she watched chase scoop up the girl and bring her up the stairs and she followed. While chase brought her to brush her teeth, Gabrielle went into her room and pick out some pjs and get her bed ready for bed. She pulled back the blanket. Gabrielle put the princess pjs on the bed as she went into the bathroom, “make sure she goes potty before.”

After Genevive went to the bathroom, Chase brought the child back to her room and helped her get on her PJs. Chase pulled out a story book and started to read to her as she fell asleep. Once she was out like a light, he headed into the connected room and sat down on Gabrielle's bed. "That wasn't too tough" he said, not really sure what to say. He knew he should leave, but he wanted to stay. He liked being here. Sure the house kind of gave him the heebie jeebies, but still. There was this ... feeling of being watched all the time. But that was just his paranoia from living here and genuinely being watched all the time.

Gabrielle went into her room while Chase got her ready for bed. Gabrielle took off her makeup, pulled her hair up on got into a comfy sleep set, a cute spaghetti strap mid daft shit with matching silk shorts. Gabrielle was sitting at her vanity doing her nightly face mask and moisturizer when Chase came in and sat down. "No, she goes down pretty easily." Gabrielle replied to the boy. "She loves her sleep."

There was something nice about Gabrielle actually taking care of herself now. That she wore something other than big t-shirts and old sophie shorts, and that she was taking care of her skin every night. It gave him some piece of mind that she was prioritizing herself. "Don't we all" he said as he rested his hands on her bed, leaning back a little. "What are your plans for the week?" he asked, curious to know what she was up to.

Gabrielle let out a small laugh, almost just in a polite way. "mine?" She questioned. "Nothing really. School, homework, the usual." It was basically her way of saying she really had no plans. "What about you?" She said as she finished her routine before turning in her chair.

"Probably gaming with Jonah, maybe a party this weekend, Striking Vipers show most likely, oh and of course ... homework" said Chase just laying back on her bed at this point. His feet still firmly on the floor. "You should come out with me this weekend, see Stevie perform" he suggested. It would be nice if the two of them were to go out together, maybe they could get back on track.

“Sounds like fun” she said with a smile as she watched him lay back on her bed. Now they were going to smell like him. No. She couldn’t have that. She couldn’t deal with that tonight, a small painful reminder of the nights she now slept alone. “I don’t think I should.” She said bluntly, now she needed to come up with a quick excuse. “You know, with Juliette and Stevie not talking yet. And with all of her friends being there she will probably need someone to hang out with.” Gabrielle said softly.

He knew he was going to get a no from her, but he could at least push it a little. The big thing was, he knew exactly what this was. It wasn't going to be any different from when they dated before. Him wanting to do things and socialize, and her not having any of it. He wanted someone who wanted to not only be places with him, but would have fun and enjoy it too. "Juliette has spent plenty of time on her own, but fair enough. As long as you're keeping her company" he said with a shrug. He wasn't going to fight her on it.

Gabrielle had changed a lot. She had her party phase where all she did was go out, but when her and chase last dated, she was too depressed and anxious to do it sometimes. But now was different. She closed herself off to a lot of people when her and chase broke up. She didn’t have to many friends to begin with regardless. She thought going out with chase would give people the wrong idea. Maybe she was trying to stop herself from getting the wrong idea. She didn’t even know what she wanted. But she knew that they were both different people now. “I just know the second she find out there is a striking vibes concert she might be upset or something. I know for sure she won’t go anywhere near there.” She didn’t know for sure but she assumed hard in this moment, “but if Juliette ends up not needing me or having other plans I will let you know.” She said with a nod as she got up from her vanity. She moved to put her clothes in the hamper and put her face stuff away.

He knew he had overstayed his welcome, and he got up from her bed. "Just keep me in the loop, I'm gonna head back to the dorm. Might grab some things from the carriage house" said Chase as he walked over to her and gave her a quick kiss on the cheek before heading out the door, "Later" he said with a smile and some finger guns. Very uncool, but very on brand. He just wanted her to know that he cared.

Gabrielle had the impulse to tell him to stay, she opened her mouth to say it but quickly but her tongue and turned away for a brief moments pick up the tv remote. “Yes. Yeah. I will. I’ll text her in the morning and ask her what her plans are. I just don’t want to leave her all alone in case she’s upset about it. This school change is an adjustment for her, plus I finally have my best friend back.” She said with smile. When he came over and kissed her cheek, she gave his forearm a brush with her finger tips. She watched him move to the door. “Goodnight” she said before moving to her bed. She waited for him to be out of her room before she started pulled the sheets off her bed. //END

#chasexgabrielle #threads || gabrielle and chase #gabrielle and chase || 019 #chase: thread

0 notes