#yrene didn't even exist until their book

[lorcandidlucienwill]

Ok man, I'm getting extremely tired of the Elriel's stagnant arguments. So let me debunk them. Forbidden romance! No, for God's sake, it is NOT forbidden. Feyre and Rhysand would support them both if Elain and Azriel truly loved each other. Not like Lucien would try to get in between them anyway. ElAiN dEsErVeS a ChOiCe! Choice implies multiple options! That means Lucien is a choice too! Elain has chosen Azriel for now! That doesn't mean she can't change her mind! Besides, haven't you EVER heard of the reluctant lovers trope? Be creative please. BuT wHaT iF tHe CaUlDrOn WaS wRoNg? Yeah, the Cauldron could be wrong about Eris and Mor, or it could be wrong about the Lady of Autumn and Helion. Why does this one line HAVE to be referring to elriel? SJM often uses lines like these to foreshadow plotlines yes, but she is never THAT obvious about it. Rhysand was being a hypocrite stopping the Azriel kiss! You could argue that he was, sure, but he was also trying to prevent a major political scandal. SJM isn't going to write Rhysand being wrong in any situation, lmao. Love or hate the character, it doesn't matter. That's just the way she has written him. Elain is an introvert! No. She's just traumatized. Nesta, her sister, says it. Lucien is a fake mate! Azriel showed mating behavior? Uhhhh no. Azriel went after MOR in the King of Hybern scene. Lucien went after guess who? Yeah, ELAIN. It was Nesta who realized Elain was gone and began to worry. Azriel only volunteered after Cassian couldn't go because he was wounded and he was the easy option aside from Feyre because he could hide in the shadows. And guess what? He saved Gwyn too! Maybe he just has a savior complex! Lucien is the one who was concerned about Elain's mental and physical health. Azriel seemed pretty chill when she wasn't eating. And he did NOT want to look after Elain. He made fun of Cassian for having to do it. ElAiN hAs TwO mAtEs! SJM is not going to write that. It would fuck everything up. She wants both characters to be happy. Gwyn is a lightsinger? Probably not, but so fucking what if she ends up being one? You think that's gonna deter Mr. Torturer Azriel? If anything that'll only bring them closer. Nice try. BuT luCiEn Is InTo VaSsA! NO. STOP IT. HE WAS CANONICALLY SEEN TO BE LOOKING AT ELAIN WITH LONGING IN ACOSF. DON'T SPREAD LIES. Vassa is definitely more into Jurian, which is a pairing that makes sense. Lucien is a side character. Um...no? Lucien has been around since book 1. He was a very significant character in that book as well. And in books 2 and 3, he might not have had as much screentime, but almost every moment he had was monumental. We see him survive the Night Court. We hear his story of fulfilling Calanmai, implying he is also chosen by the Spring Court. We have him helping Feyre kill off the twins of Hybern, bring back the army with Vassa, balance 3 roles and still dress immaculately, dominate Cassian with one word. He is also connected to almost every potential plotline in existence. Ok, this one isn't Elriel but some people say TaMlAiN! Because of the spring court foreshadowing. Guess who lived in the Spring Court for decades? Lucien! Guess who is the current Spring Court ruler but isn't doing much of ruling? Tamlin! Guess who also was able to do Spring Court Calanmai? Lucien! Wow, it almost looks like Lucien is going to replace Tamlin! SJM is not going to put one sister with another sister's ex anyway, that's weird. Elain has her chosen family in the Night Court in Nuala and Cerridwen! She belongs there! No. Just stop it. SJM could not be more clear with that line about the black dress sucking the life out of her and Elain being bothered by the cruelty in the Hewn City. Guess who is also pretty averse to violence? Oh yeah, Lucien! As for chosen family... Feyre had Tamlin and Lucien. They didn't end up being her chosen family, the IC did. Nesta didn't find her chosen family until her book. Lucien's band of exiles are not his chosen family either. Lucien and Elain are just really good at making friends.

#4 books of buildup means nothing #it's a sjm book #yrene didn't even exist until their book #trust the process girlies #anti e/riel #elucien #pro elucien #gwynriel #pro lucien vanserra #lucien vanserra

[acourtofthought]

Hi I was wondering if you still think eluciens book is next after hofas?

Even after HOFAS, I still think Elucien's book is next especially because as of HOFAS, Az still does not seem to give credit where credit is due in terms of Elain.

SJM gave Chaol a book but not at the expense of Aelin finding the person with whom she was meant for.

I like Chaol very much but I don't think it can be denied that he was unable to truly embrace Celaena for everything she was. Dorian once said to him that he didn't get to pick the parts of her that he loved and it was true. He struggled with thinking she was assassinating people at the Kings orders though that is what she was hired to do. He struggled once he found out she had magic. He struggled once he found out she was really Aelin.

So imagine if SJM gave Chaol his HEA with Yrene before Aelin fell in love with Rowan? It would send the message that "hey, it's cool you had prejudices and here's your reward in Yrene!"

People in the fandom go gaga over Az. They either moon over his interactions with Elain or over his interactions with Gwyn.

But his attitude towards both Elain and Lucien often gets swept under the rug unless it's being addressed in a post trying to prove why he and Elain aren't endgame. There's a sense of "he doesn't respect Elain and therefore will not end up with her" and then many move right on to how he and Gwyn would be great for one another while completely skipping over the fact that he probably needs to learn a lesson or two before that ever happens.

It would be like SJM giving Tamlin his HEA with someone before Feyre ended up with Rhys. Or Tamlin getting his HEA before Lucien.

I'm not saying Az is exactly like Tamlin but there are similarities there and I think it's odd that we would all probably agree Tamlin should not have gotten his HEA before Feyre or get one before Lucien because of the way he treated them while some believe Az, with the way he acts towards Elain and treats Lucien, should get his HEA before them.

Az's behavior is problematic but many want to turn a blind eye, believing that as long as he is with Gwyn, he'll be a better male.

To me, Az's true growth will not ring as true until he sees that Lucien is in fact good enough for Elain, that she does in fact have interest in him, that Elain and Lucien are in fact just as powerful and capable of Az himself and him feeling happy for them, him being able to acknowledge he was wrong.

Az finding his mate in the next ACOTAR book and him suddenly being gracious as a result is not a lesson learned. "I got my mate so now I can admit you're a good guy Lucien, sorry about that."

It rings insincere. I think that as we just got the first hints of a Gwynriel mating bond introduced in SF, it's not crazy to think that SJM will give their story a little more time to cook while Elucien's mating bond is first dealt with.

Beyond that, I don't think a Gwynriel book at this time moves the plot forward with Koschei, Beron, Tamlin, Vassa, or the peace treaty.

Suddenly drawing the current "villains" into Night Court territory drama with the Illyrians, the Valkyrie or the Prison lands doesn't make a lot of sense to me because then, Elucien's story would be set in the NC.

I think it's clear that the current main issues in their world exist outside the NC borders.

Beron wants Spring lands and the NC needs Springs armies as an ally yet Tamlin isn't getting better.

Koschei wants to free himself of the lake to become master of their world (not just one territory).

The fae in Vallahan want to move into human territory.

Vassa's curse takes her back to Koschei's lake on the continent.

The Valkyries and the Illyrians have nothing to do with these plots. People claim that Koschei is connected to the Illyrians because of the Rite but that was Briallyn's plot for Nesta because she needed to wear Nesta's powers down. "Your power is too strong - throwing you into this primitive spectacle wore you down". It really had nothing to do with the Illyrians themselves.

I also don't believe that SJM is going to heavily tie Merrill and time travel into what's going on across the continent and Spring. I think SJM laid the groundwork for her future series which I imagine will deal with more crossover plots, Merrill as a villain and world walking but the Valkyrie storyline which consists of building up an entire legion of elite female warriors is not something I see happening within the same year that the idea of the Valkyrie being reborn took place. And there's no point in suddenly tying the Valkyrie / Illyrians to Koschei and the peace treaty in a single book when we know Elucien's book will not take place in the NC. It makes no sense for SJM to turn Beron's attention to the NC when Rhys remains the most powerful HL and could easily wipe Beron off the map if he dares to enter NC territory. The reason Beron is looking to Spring is because of it's weakened state.

I once called it a marble run but SJM recently used the airplane taxiing metaphor.

Yes, Gwyn talked of wanting to leave the library but Vassa has been trying to free herself from her curse for much longer.

Yes, Gwyn and Az have both been given mysterious backgrounds but both Lucien and Elain have had unexplored powers and Lucien's still hasn't learned of his real father for a much longer time.

Yes, Gwynriel had the first hints of their mating bond established but Elucien's "will they / won't they?" has been one of the main questions of the ACOTAR series since ACOMAF.

Yes, Gwyn has her own story to tell but Elain is Feyre's sister and she's been waiting to tell her story for much longer. And I do think the underdog deserves her chance to shine when SF continued reminding us that there are still some who feel it's alright to speak for Elain and who don't believe her capable.

This series is not going to end up only being about the Archerons, I imagine SJM will continue on with Mor's story, Gwynriel's story, and more on Nesta's journey outside of Feyre and Rhys.

But to me it doesn't make sense that she would skip over Elain to tell Gwyn and Az's romantic arc first, especially when Az is one of the guilty parties of underestimating Elain.

SJM herself spoke of how her stories revolve around the female's journey and while I admit she also writes books that start off because of a male's journey (Chaol), I think Az getting a book before Elain would completely go against the foundation of what she typically writes. A problematic male character's happiness gained at the expense of a female character's happiness (and an unproblematic male like Lucien) would not be a very Girl Power message.

But of course, that is only my opinion and I have no idea whether SJM sees it that way or not.  

#elucien #pro elucien #elain archeron #lucien vanserra #anti e/riel #pro lucien vanserra #pro elain archeron #Azriel critical

[acourtofthought]

"Lucien has always been one of my favorite characters"

Sarah J Maas has also stated that Lucien was partly based off Sam Heughan's portrayal of Jamie Fraser from Outlander. She even mentions his name in the ACOTAR Acknowledgements.

She specifically said she didn't keep Nesta as his mate as she originally intended because she realized that would result in more harm for him:

It's difficult for me to imagine that she would reduce Lucien's love interest (one of her FAVORITE characters that she based off someone she actually mentions in her book) to a female who he's already been living with as friends for over a year, one who also lives with another male who she seems to have a more fiery connection with. One who we barely know anything about other than her situation with Koschei and her station in life (as a Queen).

He's already lost his first love. Been chased out of two homes and been abused by someone he called a friend. Is undervalued by a lot of other characters. SJM decided not to follow through on her initial plan because Nesta would not have been the right fit for him. She was then taken by surprise that the person who WAS, was Elain. Meaning she didn't intend for them to be together until the characters themselves spoke to her. I can't imagine that she'd come to this realization only to say "I'm not going to listen to you guys and do something different anyways". And I disagree with the argument that "the characters could have surprised her again so she changed the story". Once she realized Lucien and Elain were going to be mates, she put a great deal of effort into making them complimentary to one another as individuals, more so than the ways they were already complimentary. I don't think an author like SJM would change her mind about something that big once she invested multiple books and storylines to hint to their compatability. And sure, she created the Chaol / Yrene storyline in one book but Mates don't exist for humans and Chaol was never mentioned as one of her favorites. Vassa could never be the "ultimate" love for Lucien in a world where truly bonded Mates are the pinnacle. And a soul bonded mating bond is probably the only thing that could compare to his love for Jesminda.

There's little chance SJM isn't going to give Lucien the world by the end of his story and that includes the most meaningful gift of all for someone who has already lost so much.

#elucien #pro elucien #elain and lucien #lucien and elain #lucien x elain #elain x lucien