thoughtsfromthefiverealms

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

we're still here. we had some medical stuff and a bit of a meltdown so we're recovering from that. hello to all the new people who have shown up here! welcome to our discussion blog. feel free to ask a question if you like. we'll make sure our inbox is open. for now anon will be off.

while we are by no means an expert, we have been living with a DID dx for decades now (about three). most of what we've learned will be anecdotal and personal opinion and experience. one size does NOT fit all so take what works for you and ditch the rest. the important thing is to find things that work for YOU and YOUR system.

have a good day!

-S

#stiles talks #plural system #multiple system #endo safe #endo friendly #actually plural #actually multiple #actually dissociative

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

"Alters can't talk to each other"!

*sigh*

Okay this one is more difficult. Because with SOME systems, especially in the beginning, this CAN be true. Especially in DID when there are heavy dissociative barriers. So that statement isn't COMPLETELY false. For SOME systems this is how they function.

Usually, especially in the beginning of therapy, there is work to try and break down those dissociative barriers so that system mates can communicate in some way. It makes healing a LOT easier if people can pool their resources and that's easier if they can communicate in some way.

Verbal talking internally is not the only way alters can communicate. Writing, through feelings/thoughts/emotions, I've even heard of a system that used dreams to communicate. Those are all very valid ways to "talk" to each other. The list is endless.

But to just say flatly that "alters can't talk to each other" is to negate several things. It negates systems that worked damn hard to get their communication better. It negates systems that have ALWAYS been able to talk to each other. And it discourages people from TRYING to build better communication with their system.

For example. WE have ALWAYS been able to talk and write to each other. We also concede that we are not a typical system. We weren't very covert. Our father was also plural, as is our brother. So the need to be covert in our household was superseded by the need to match whoever was fronting in our father (one of our primary abusers). So even before we knew what DID was, we had "voices" in our head and notes turning up in our notebooks and on our computer from people.

Our partner system, however, has trouble with anyone beyond a specific group that hangs around the front. And they can't talk to each other well when in pain or sick. What's going on with their body can override things like talking internally and switching.

Now we do recognize that for SOME systems, for whatever reason, system mates CAN'T talk to each other. The ones we've known seemed very frustrated by this, but that was how it was for them.

So it varies widely from system to system, how well system mates can communicate with each other. This is not a one statement fits all kind of thing and it never has been.

#syscourse #plural system #actually plural #multiple system #actually multiple #dissociative identity disorder #actually did #did system #actually dissociative #endo safe #endo friendly #again the syscourse tag is just to be safe

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

plural friends/support groups

So I've seen some pretty hot takes from r/systemcringe. I'm not even sure where to start to be honest. I guess I'll start with the one that's echoing through my brain. Actually, there's two but I'll give them each their own post.

They seem to think that someone wanting plural friends is some gross statement of wanting people to suffer. Now this is mostly from a trauamgenic standpoint.

Having had a group of plural friends I hung out with some years ago, I can honestly say that none of us were thinking "I wish more of my friends suffered". Mostly what we were thinking was "Oh, you go through some of the same shit I do, you can understand in a way singlets don't." We could talk openly with each other about system stuff in ways we couldn't with singlet friends and family without having to stop and explain what "this" is or what "this" means. Sometimes you don't want to be the teacher, you just want to hang out with some friends.

It gave our system mates a chance to learn safe interactions, if they didn't know them. To learn that not everyone was evil or ready to abuse us. To learn that we can have friends too. And it gave us people to lean on in the bad times, people who understood just what those bad times were like. It gave our system mates a chance to be out for more than trauma and therapy things, to learn to have fun like "normal" people did.

It's definitely NOT a bad thing to want plural friends. It has nothing to do with wanting other people to suffer and everything to do with wanting a peer group. And you know what? Systems are allowed to want that, too.

#syscourse #plural system #actually plural #multiple system #actually multiple #dissociative identity disorder #actually dissociative #did system #actually did #endo safe #endo friendly #the syscourse tag is mostly to be safe

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

(syscourse replies encouraged emoji here)

i dont understand anti-endos. a lot of their arguments include the fact that OSDDID are trauma based disorders, but endos are not claiming to have OSDDID? they simply have the experience of being plural.

it usually boils down to “my experience is different because of trauma and your experience cannot be similar in any form without trauma as well” which ignores the fact that people experience the world and themselves in many different and complex ways.

i also find that many anti endos just. wont believe that someone can have a life experience that is different than others. why is it so hard to believe that someone could just.. be a system? without trauma?

anyways, i’ve started identifying as “fuck you”-genic because of all the anti endos that follow me for being traumagenic

📬- Syscourse replies encouraged

DISCLAIMER: Posts may or may not reflect accurate information.

#syscourse

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

the SC sub banned me for just existing, jokes on them because I'm gathering evidence to take down their server after they came after my friend. their terminally obsessed with bullying systems and the server needs to be shut down so they can ughhh get an actual hobby and touch grass lololol :)

Excactly!

They act all mighty, like they have the knowledge and stuff. But in the end are they a system? No. Are they a professional? No. They’re a Reddit user

Also, jokes on them. I don’t even HAVE a Reddit account, they can’t ban me.

Anyways good luck, hoping you succeed <3

— Silver ( 💿 )

#syscourse

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

Tales From The Dystopia: Today r/systemscringe Casually Suggests Stripping Licenses From Doctors Who Provide Safe Spaces Endogenic Systems

This is just... complete and utter nonsense.

First, we have research into tulpamancy affirming it as a real psychological phenomenon. We have the World Health Organization stating in the ICD-11 that someone may have multiple distinct personality states without a disorder. We have Transgender Mental Health, published by the American Psychiatric Association, stating you can be plural without trauma or a mental disorder.

Current research affirms the existence of endogenic and non-disordered plurality at every turn.

And if someone comes to a doctor experiencing healthy plurality, the last thing any doctor should do is try to gaslight them into thinking their experiences are a delusion or something that needs fixed.

I cannot overstate the pure evil of this comment: If you have a therapist who supports your plurality and provides a safe space for it, r/systemscringe wants them stripped of licenses for it and replaced by people who will treat your headmates as delusions.

We're fortunate that these people don't hold any real power or influence, because this sort of dystopian agenda is absolutely terrifying.

But even though they may not have the power to be able to enact such a thing, it's truly monstrous that they would even suggest it.

#syscourse

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

"Endogenesis" is a "Conspiracy Theory" According to r/systemscringe...

It finally happened. The hate subreddit, r/systemscringe, has made their hit list of acceptable targets to post uncensored.

If anyone is here from that sub because I was added to that hit list... first... hi! 👋

Second, I found this funny in their criteria for who qualifies...

I briefly touched on them considering RAMCOA a conspiracy theory in another post so I'm not going to address that here. I'll leave that up to others who are more familiar with and educated on the topic than I.

No, I want to talk about the "endogenesis" part of that.

One may ask, who are all these whacky conspiracy theorists who believe you can have multiple agents, distinct personality states or "dissociative parts" with no trauma or mental disorders present?

Well, we can start with Richard Kluft, an expert in dissociative identity disorder, who referred to a possibility that there exists a nonpathological "endogenous" form of dissociative identity disorder back in 2001.

While a one-off mention, this reference to a possible endogenous form of DID predated the adoption of the term "endogenic" by the plural community by a solid 13 years.

For more explicit support, there is Eric Yarbrough, who holds the highest honor from the American Psychiatric Association, as a Distinguished Fellow of the American Psychiatric Association.

This book that explicitly acknowledges non-disordered and non-traumagenic plurality was reviewed and published by the American Psychiatric Association themselves.

We have Samuel Veissiere, professor of psychiatry at McGill University, who has written on the personhood of tulpas, a primarily psychological type of created headmate.

This was from a book that was peer reviewed and published by the highly reputable Oxford University Press.

We have the authors of the Haunted Self and creators of the Theory of Structural Dissociation, who have suggested hypnosis and mediumship may involve "self-conscious" "dissociated parts of the personality."

While they don't explicitly say for certain they are, they do acknowledge the possibility and encourage further research.

And then you have the ICD-11 by the World Health Organization which states you can experience the presence of multiple distinct identity states without a disorder:

"Distinct Identity States" is the term the ICD-11 uses for alters earlier on.

And these are only to name a few.

At this point, endogenic and non-disordered plurality has been acknowledged and supported by numerous psychologists and psychiatrists.

It's been acknowledged as a possibility that needs to be researched by the creators of the Theory of Structural Dissociation.

It's been explicitly acknowledged in a book reviewed and published by the American Psychiatric Association.

It's been supported in the ICD-11 by the World Health Organization.

According to anti-science hate-subreddit r/systemscringe, all these people and institutions are conspiracy theorists.

One has to ask then who the real conspiracy theorists are? Are they the endogenic systems saying "look, this is what the scientists and major academic and medical institutions have said," or are they the people who just shout to the rooftops that the ones they disagree with are wrong? The ones who have encouraged a prominent psychiatrist to have their license revoked just for supporting endogenic systems in academic literature, the same exact way COVID-deniers attacked doctors who supported mask mandates?

#syscourse

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

A FUCKING PETITION /POS

YALL, THERES A PETITION TO REMOVE R/SYSCRINGE FROM REDDIT! LETS FUCKING GO!

THESE PEOPLE ARE SO MESSED UP, IVE EVEN SEEN ANTI-ENDOS REGARD THEM AS DISGUSTING. We can finally act now. Please sign the petition to remove r/syscringe.

We can stop them before they make the act to uncensor names and make their bullying worse.

#syscourse

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

On todays episode of “r/systemcringe is dumb as fuck” we have

God this makes no sense. Like what if someone wants to find other friends who say, use a wheelchair? Are they celebrating people being disabled? No. They just want friends who understand what they've experienced and thus it forms a support group.

— Silver (💿)

#syscourse

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

about Thoughts from the Five Realms

This is meant to be more of a discussion blog than a catch everything blog like our main collective blog is. It is still a multiple/plural blog. We many not always identify ourselves because that’s just how our system works. But those who want to be identified will do so. We are a Ritual Abuse survivor as well as a Child SA survivor; we have numerous subsystems within the five main realms of our collective and are considered polyfragmented with over 700 known members. We have been diagnosed with DID twice and have been through trauma therapy. We are not currently in therapy for a number of reasons. Neither Integration nor fusion is a goal for us.

Body-wise, our age is 40+, we have been married and divorced and we have three children in their 20s. We have been a part of various multiple/plural communities since 1999. Divided Hearts before it became Mosaic Minds, and then Mosaic Minds as well as the Dark Personalities e-mail list along with a few more private message forums. We were never involved in the multiple/plural community on Live Journal and we have mostly only been watchers with the Tumblr multiple/plural community. Our system name is Flux Synthesis, once Collective Dreamscapes, which it was for a good while. We were previously also known as the Realms Collective (years and years ago).

We would prefer not to interact with body age minors for a number of reasons. It’s not a hard no, but your issues are not the same issues we deal with on a day to day level due to being in a different part of your life than we are. We feel more comfortable interacting with those over the body age of 18. System-mate ages are different and, as most of those who front regularly in our collective are between the ages of 22-35, we’re less stringent with that. Please respect this. We would also prefer for this to be a multiple/plural only blog. Your origins do not matter to us. Despite being diagnosed, we are friendly to endogenics, tulpamancy systems and soulbonders (though we use the term very differently), and other origins, as well as traumagenic systems. We don’t consider our multiplicity/plurality to be a disorder.

We have a number of psych diagnoses beyond DID as well as a number of chronic illnesses. We have a partner system we have been involved with for several years.

If we engage in syscourse, we will tag it as such, but it is more likely to find such posts here than on our main where we avoid syscourse.

#plural system #actually plural #multiple system #actually multiple #dissociative identity disorder #actually dissociative #did system #endo safe #endo friendly #ramcoa #repost to edit and pin

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

This is messy and I made it in like 10 minutes just take it

#alterhuman #otherkin #therianthropy

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

Hot take but, @ certain kinfolk, you're not doing anyone any favors by saying that for most people, kin is a way for young people with trauma to cope and project. There is a word for that, and it is not kin. It is copinglink.

I've been through trauma, but I hate the idea of my beliefs and identity being just yet another tie to it. You may think you're doing us a favor by "normalizing" being kin, but you're not. You're just alienating the true Otherkind community, which is diverse in it's beliefs and presentation.

I hate how the definition of being kin has been watered down, and i'm sick of pretending it doesn't bother me.

If you ID as something other than what you physically are in this life, you are kin. There doesn't have to be a past life reasoning for it, but don't try to push the idea that all people who are kin are just doing it to cope with trauma. That's incredibly ableist. Way to equate spirituality with mental illness.

#otherkin

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

I am gonna say this much.

It *feels* like there's a lot of fear in the anger being thrown around. I can even understand why. But it's not helping anyone.

The existence of non trauma created systems doesn't negate the existence of trauma created systems. And it doesn't add to professionals not believing it.

Professionals have been trying to discredit multiplicity for decades, long before endogenic was a word. The concept has existed as long as the *theory* that trauma creates systems. And the *theory* was mostly built on "what do these people have in common?" more than anything. It was already a skewed database because they were ONLY dealing with people with severe dissociative symptoms.

But really, their database is still skewed. Why else do *predominantly* white, female presenting trauma survivors end up diagnosed with DID. I was in therapy for *years* and only personally came across two other Black females with the diagnosis, and neither had a system like ours. It's a damn lonely feeling.

The syscourse is strong today.

#actuallymultiple #actuallyplural #syscourse #i guess #multiplicity #plurality

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

The syscourse is strong today.

#actuallymultiple #actuallyplural #i stay out of syscourse #i already ran this gamut twenty years ago #multiplicity #plurality

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

I don't wanna get into the whole Satanic Ritual Abuse thing for so many reasons. But Religious (other than Christian, or even the other big monotheistic religions) Ritual Abuse absolutely does exist, is a thing and we lived through it. And it's frustrating to see it mocked as fake or over the top because of the 80s SRA scare or the 90s hype.

Just... I dunno why I'm saying this. It just bothers me that you add religion to abuse, or specifically Satan to abuse and suddenly lose all your credibility. Just because it's beyond what you personally can understand doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The only thing that was "debunked" were the wild claims that came from leading questions to very young children. But cults do exist and are a thing. I wonder how the Branch Davidian children grew up.

#abuse mention #ritual abuse #actuallyplural #actuallymultiple #plurality #multiplicity

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

PSA from the actual coiner of “neurodivergent”

Yo. Many of you need to take an entire stadium of seats. Like a football arena in Texas number.

I coined neurodivergent before tumblr was even a thing, like a decade or more ago, because people were using ‘neurodiverse’ and ‘neurodiversity’ to just mean autistic, & possibly LDs. But there’s more, like way more, ways a person can have a different yet fucking perfect dammit brain.

Neurodivergent refers to neurologically divergent from typical. That’s ALL.

I am multiply neurodivergent: I’m Autistic, epileptic, have PTSD, have  cluster headaches, have a chiari malformation.

Neurodivergent just means a brain that diverges.

Autistic people. ADHD people. People with learning disabilities. Epileptic people. People with mental illnesses. People with MS or Parkinsons or apraxia or cerebral palsy or dyspraxia or no specific diagnosis but wonky lateralization or something. 

That is all it means. It is not another damn tool of exclusion. It is specifically a tool of inclusion. If you don’t want to be associated with Those People, then YOU are the one who needs another word. Neurodivergent is for all of us.

Annoyedly yours,

Neurodivergent K of Radical Neurodivergence Speaking

#neurodivergent #neurodiverse

[thoughtsfromthefiverealms]

From: http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/mcclure.html#chap4 Ross (1991) studied the general population of Winnipeg searching for an indication of Dissociative Identity Disorder in the general population. He found 3.1% of respondents to an interview could fit the criteria of Dissociative Identity Disorder. However, of these 14 individuals (out of 454 participants), the majority (8) seemed to be radically different from Dissociative Identity Disorder patients in therapy. These individuals often did not report abuse history and often reported experiencing little psychopathology. In a test of the Dissociative Experiences Scale (DES), all but one had scores of less than 20. The DES has a scale out of 100, with the mean score of a person with Dissociative Identity Disorder was 41.4 with a standard deviation of 20. The mean score in the general population is 10.1 (Ross, 1991), meaning that the scores of this subgroup were above average for the general population, but well below average for clinical cases of Dissociative Identity Disorder. Only 6  individuals in the general population appeared to have what Ross described as “pathologic posttraumatic MPD,” which was 1.3% of the entire sample. These individuals had abuse histories and reported difficulties in functioning. Ross describes a number of possibilities that explain these findings. He contemplates that the non-pathological group could be false positives, that the individuals could be amnesiac for abuse, that the Dissociative Identity Disorder could be in remission or that: “multiplicity exists in a non-pathological endogenous form in the general population. About 2% of people may be natural multiples who do not have dysfunctional posttraumatic MPD. They may simply have a highly dissociative psychic organization” (Ross, 1991, p. 510). I would add that this sub-population in this study are individuals who maintained this structure despite years of socialization. I would predict that the size of this subgroup would be much higher in other cultures. Ross went on to state that “simply having distinct personality states that feel subjectively like separate people may not in itself be a mental illness” (p.511). —– Ross, C. (1991). Epidemiology of Multiple Personality Disorder and Dissociation. Psychiatric Clinics of north America, 14 (3), 503­517.

#we don't even like colin ross #but at least he makes a point