undercat-overdog

[undercat-overdog]

I do love Celebrimbor takes where post-death/rebirth he actually has very little to say to his family until they show some signs of remorse or personal growth from the atrocities they committed in Middle-earth.

#'aghast at the behavior of his father and would not go with him' #certainly can't see him looking up to his father and uncles after that as people whose approval he wants #nor thinking he owes them obedience #celebrimbor #(for that matter he may have broken an oath of fealty in refusing to follow curufin for)

[undercat-overdog]

Do you think angbang is better as they stayed together until the very end while in silvergifting, sauron painfully murdered celebrimbor?

Personal murder is very sexy, anon.

I don't actually think angbang stayed together till the very end. I mean, I also don't think angbang was a thing that happened, but I don't think that Sauron returned to Morgoth after the whole Luthien incident, for reasons I talked about in a previous ask.

But. I entirely reject the underlying assumptions of the question.

Neither ship is "better" than the other. No ship is better or worse than any other ship. I like some ships and dislike others, but that's personal taste, not objective ranking. Loyalty kink is a major turn-off for me but other people are super into it; likewise I enjoy some vivisection but for others it's a very strong do not want. And that's fine. De gustibus non est disputandum, and all. Taste isn't a matter of right or wrong, or moral or immoral, or better or worse.

#not sure what you want me to say here lol #i think it's fairly obvious what my otp is #i don't know if you asked this in good faith but i am answering in good faith #ask #anonymous #also i hope it goes without saying but there is nothing wrong in the slightest with enjoying dark content or unhealthy relationships

[undercat-overdog]

My toxic trait is that I'm not terribly impressed by "doomed by the narrative." Everyone's doomed by the narrative it came free with your fucking narrative

[undercat-overdog]

Do you think out of all the people in silmarillon, sauron got to live his best life as he actually almost succeeded in doing whatever he wanted and was even enjoying watching his enemies fall to ruin?

Thank you for the ask, anon, I always love them 💙

And lol! There weren't many people in the Silm who got to lead their best life, were there...

But I don't, actually. One thing that comes up in a lot of places is all the negative emotions that he experiences. You could argue that something like black anger can be grimly satisfying - and it can be - but fear is also one of the main emotions. It doesn't pop up all the time, but it's a common one. In LotR, he's said to be afraid of his enemies' plans.

I talk about fear with him less than I might in meta because. Hmm. Because I think it doesn't come from deep personal insecurities? He's not afraid all of the time and when he is it's often very rational. Like he's right to be very scared when Luthien beats him. He's right to be afraid of the Numenoreans, because their army genuinely can beat his (canonically why he surrenders to Pharazon; it wasn't his preferred choice but the better ones - diplomacy that let him stay ruling in Middle-earth and/or militarily defeating the Numenoreans - weren't possible). And yeah, he's right to be afraid of Gandalf too (he doesn't understand Gandalf nor what Gandalf will do, which makes him more dangerous).

Fear and rage and bitterness and anger that others are living well are there, and those emotions generally aren't fun to experience. Then there's his longing for the Ring.

Which isn't to say he's not confident (if anything, his self-esteem is far too high). He came very, very close to winning the War of the Rings.

And, well, he did lose. Multiple times. Loser 🥰

But I do think he had fun too! He definitely enjoys himself from time to time and watching his enemies fall to ruin was likely enjoyable. I headcanon his emotional state as quite mercurial, and amusement is definitely part of that.

Haha maybe "living his best life (thwarted)" is how to describe S.

#i'll make some silvergifting shipper exceptions to the enjoying the enemies falling to ruin bit #but in general? yes #sauron #ask #anonymous #meta #living his best life (thwarted) is amusing me too much

[undercat-overdog]

There is more to Tolkien's work than his Catholicism.

I think there's a general tendency in many areas of fandom - fandom broadly, I'm also think academic work and reddit; this post isn't aimed at tumblr fandom specifically. in fact probably a bit more aimed at reddit but there was no precipitating incident that's leading me to write this. Anyways, a general tendency to over-weight the influence of Christianity in his work? Especially when it comes to finding allegories (Andreth talking about her people's beliefs in the Athrabeth is the only thing I think that is one, and Tolkien in his notes talked about how it was too Christian and wanted to change it), but more generally too. And sometimes I think Catholicism is brought into the text in ways that really aren't there. Idk.

Also... I think there is a way that him himself as a creator is. Hmm. I don't want to say under-discussed because it's not. But his work is more than the sum of his influences?

#ok there was a precipitating incident #and that was me being reminded of arguing on reddit a while back with some guy who #thought the story of turin was inspired by the book of job #and dismissed the influence of the kalevala #it remains one of the most baffling internet encounters i've ever had and i've been on the internet since i was a pre-teen in the 90s #so i guess i'm vague-posting about some weird guy on reddit #meta

[undercat-overdog]

@tobermoriansass tagged me for a tidbit tuesday, sharing a bit of writing: thank you! 💙

I've been trying to get back into writing, working on Shall these Bones Live, a porny AU outtake for the same that's not not vore-adjacent, and the occasional passage in the unhappy ending, so:

“I love you,” Celebrimbor cried. “I love you, I love you—”

Sauron looked at him, eyes brighter than the sun. But even as he opened his mouth, even as Celebrimbor reached out desperately, he was swallowed by the darkness.

It engulfed him, but there was a flash of gold light, so bright Celebrimbor’s eyes burned, and the hole in reality imploded; it fell in on itself, or was pulled into itself, till it was the size of a grain of sand, then with a loud painful sound and a wave of pressure that threw Celebrimbor back, it was nothing.

Annatar was gone.

Tagging @lulukeskywalker, @yavieriel, and @herenortherenearnorfar if you want - but please no pressure! 💙

#my fic #meme #for a variety of reasons i've felt a fair bit of negative emotionality around fic/writing fic over the past year-ish #but am trying to move past that and recall the joy i used to feel at creating something #and now to re-log off of tumblr but first an evil boop to each and every one of you!

[undercat-overdog]

I don't know what I'm doing anymore lol. Getting back into paleo stuff. Tiktaalik feelings. I plan on making this into a small edition of 2 color screen prints on paper, so follow along to get notified for that! Photoshop // ~ 8 hours

Instagram // X // Bluesky

#art #relatable

[undercat-overdog]

@gwaedhannen with an excellent point: yes, Sauron didn't know it was Finrod!

One other tangentially related thing is that Beren was the bigger prize than Felagund, and someone Sauron had more of a personal interest in:

At length Morgoth set a price upon [Beren's] head no less than the price upon the head of Fingon, High King of the Noldor; but the Orcs fled rather at the rumour of his approach than sought him out. Therefore an army was sent against him under the command of Sauron; and Sauron brought werewolves

I dislike the "Finrod lost to Sauron because of his hypocrisy and complicity in the Kinslaying" interpretations for many many reasons. I find it personally dissatisfying; I don't think it's the correct reading of the text itself; I think it's plain weird to make it all about how Finrod might have, hypothetically, gotten on a swanship. Like, that's not what the story is about! The Tale of Beren and Luthien isn't about Finrod - he's a prominent character but definitely a supporting one - and it isn't about the Noldor. It's not even about the central conflict of the Quenta proper. Making it all about the Noldor's "sin" - the incorrect framing imo; it's Doom not sin - decenters Morgoth the actual baddie and centers the Noldor even more than the text does.

The story is the Leithian, release from bondage, and that's what the rap battle is about. Finrod sings of the prison opening, the chain that snaps, and Sauron counters with captives sad in Angband. Even the kinslaying itself isn't what Sauron begins with, rather the death of the Trees: then the gloom gathered, darkness growing... it's death and darkness and blood even in Elvenesse: we can reach there, evil is there, there's no place in the world that's not marred by Morgoth and Morgoth's Ring. Finrod, whose argument is the beauty of the world, can't counteract it: beautiful things are broken. Arda is marred. And he's set in chains. (And then chains are broken by the power of friendship - another Leithian theme.)

Anyways, making an important and thematic part of Beren and Luthien's story into comeuppance for the Noldorin equivalent of committing adultery in your heart baffles me a bit.

Down with Noldor-centric readings.

#iirc there's an early version in which gorthaur realizes who nereb and dungalef are #though i don't recall whether he realizes before or after the song battle #and it's certainly not the 'main' version #meta

[undercat-overdog]

I dislike the "Finrod lost to Sauron because of his hypocrisy and complicity in the Kinslaying" interpretations for many many reasons. I find it personally dissatisfying; I don't think it's the correct reading of the text itself; I think it's plain weird to make it all about how Finrod might have, hypothetically, gotten on a swanship. Like, that's not what the story is about! The Tale of Beren and Luthien isn't about Finrod - he's a prominent character but definitely a supporting one - and it isn't about the Noldor. It's not even about the central conflict of the Quenta proper. Making it all about the Noldor's "sin" - the incorrect framing imo; it's Doom not sin - decenters Morgoth the actual baddie and centers the Noldor even more than the text does.

The story is the Leithian, release from bondage, and that's what the rap battle is about. Finrod sings of the prison opening, the chain that snaps, and Sauron counters with captives sad in Angband. Even the kinslaying itself isn't what Sauron begins with, rather the death of the Trees: then the gloom gathered, darkness growing... it's death and darkness and blood even in Elvenesse: we can reach there, evil is there, there's no place in the world that's not marred by Morgoth and Morgoth's Ring. Finrod, whose argument is the beauty of the world, can't counteract it: beautiful things are broken. Arda is marred. And he's set in chains. (And then chains are broken by the power of friendship - another Leithian theme.)

Anyways, making an important and thematic part of Beren and Luthien's story into comeuppance for the Noldorin equivalent of committing adultery in your heart baffles me a bit.

Down with Noldor-centric readings.

#as an aside i really really love that poem #meta #finrod #the leithian #i really really love that name too #release from bondage #at the end release from arda #(way off topic but death is so interesting and rich and thematic in tolkien)

[undercat-overdog]

Tagged by @meadowlarkx to post the last line that I wrote (ty <3)

He opened his mouth and began to eat.

#the social difficulties of tagging...

[undercat-overdog]

Everyone says that the eagles should have just carried the ring to Mordor but people who really know their lore know that they were actually stuck in some sort of hotel

#a sexy hotel

[undercat-overdog]

I'm always a little confused when people draw the stars of Gondor/Elendil with eight points, because:

A) We have Tolkien's own art showing the symbols of the King with five-pointed stars:

B) We have a pretty obvious inspiration for the shape of said five-pointed stars:

#queue #meta

[undercat-overdog]

I'd forgotten to add that Sauron wasn't just the evil royal advisor on Numenor but the tempter offering forbidden knowledge too, the snake in the garden.

And Sauron came. Even from his mighty tower of Barad-dûr he came, and made no offer of battle. For he perceived that the power and majesty of the Kings of the Sea surpassed all rumour of them, so that he could not trust even the greatest of his servants to withstand them; and he saw not his time yet to work his will with the Dúnedain. And he was crafty, well skilled to gain what he would by subtlety when force might not avail. Therefore he humbled himself before Ar-Pharazôn and smoothed his tongue; and men wondered, for all that he said seemed fair and wise. [...] Yet such was the cunning of his mind and mouth, and the strength of his hidden will, that ere three years had passed he had become closest to the secret counsels of the King; for flattery sweet as honey was ever on his tongue, and knowledge he had of many things yet unrevealed to Men

(As discussed further in 'On Motives,' Sauron explicitly chooses to surrender and be taken captive because he knows his armies can't win against Numenor; it wouldn't have been his first choice otherwise.)

And what he's offering them is nothing less than eternal life and rulership of the land of the gods...

Seducer is a very broad category. The femme fatale is a type of seducer but a sub-category only. Other sub-categories include "evil vizier/priest" and "devil who tempts with forbidden but desired knowledge," a la Mephistopheles in Faust (sorry, gotta be a shorter way to describe that). Sauron fits in the latter two, not the former. He was the evil vizier and priest in Numenor and Mephistopheles in Eregion and to Saruman.

What Sauron does with Denethor is less seduction and more disinformation, biased news, twitter algorithms: doomscrolling.

#meta #sauron #i am really not a fan of femme sauron #like what you like and don't let me put you off it #but he is not canonically femme and the seducer archetypes he fits in are masculine ones

[undercat-overdog]

somewhat related to the inherent peredhel queerness post, I’m thinking out loud as i type so it’s possible that i’m about to reinvent the wheel but basically. Eärendil as the peredhel character who threatens the established categories of first age story genres also? or like. whose existence very emphatically brings nuance to the polarised nature of first age narratives. kills dragon, doesn’t die. intercedes with the valar, gets bound by elvish fate within the circles of the world. not a dyscatastrophic character and also not an eucatastophic character (in the sense that he doesn’t exactly benefit from “winning”) but clearly a third type of thing and it fascinates me. and he is the main character of gondolin’s little universe so like. dyscatastophe CoH, eucatastrophe Lay of Leithian, secret third thing FoG+ nonexistent Lay of Eärendil…

#queue #meta #peredhil

[undercat-overdog]

Have come around to the idea that "Tar-Mairon," in the Quenya, was not actually what the man himself was called on Numenor but what the surviving Faithful called him while writing in Quenya, a transliteration of what he became to be called in Numenor once he had reached full power and influence. Similarly, perhaps it's the reason we have Tar-Calion as a name and not just Ar-Pharazon. There's a bitter pleasure in referring to an enemy by their name in a language they banned

(Ok the real reason that Tar-Mairon the name is Quenya is because it comes from a word list where Jirt was discussing the Quenya reflexes of a Primitive Quendian root, not Adunaic. But in-universe!)

#talked a little bit about this on bsky and came to tumblr to make a post about languages in numenor #but that involves too much digging through ut and the other numenorean sources (i know them but digging for the quotes to quote is a pita) #meta #and why yes i will refer to sauron as 'man' #(he is an adult male though not a human - note the lack of capitalization)

[undercat-overdog]

Most characters in the Silmarillion aren't bad people and neither is everyone morally grey. It's not the war crimes fandom. It's pretty black and white, actually!

#black and white doesn't mean simple or sophomoric or childish either #it is possible for characters to make bad decisions for not the best reasons and still remain heroes; good guys can make mistakes #and then you come to a character like feanor - is he morally grey? who cares. it's really not the point of his character #(i have some major problems with how the term war crime is used in the fandom too) #(but mostly - 'war crimes fandom'? morally grey? besties there are characters other than the sons of feanor) #meta

[undercat-overdog]

Lovers Sempiternal (2022) oil on wood panel Shop: suhaylah.bigcartel.com Patreon: patreon.com/suhaylah_h IG: @suhaylah.h  

#queue #art #bones inspo #(tagged for my reference)