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Episode 87 Transcript: Grey Wants Everyone to Know That He is Saying Things Recreationally

[intro guitar music]

G: Hello, it's Grey.

C: Hello, it's Crystal.

G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many times...

C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.

G: Both Asian! For today's episode, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 5: "Fallen Idols," written by Julie Siege, directed by James L. Conway.

C: Julie Siege, as I've said to Grey, should probably take a break from writing for a while, I think. [both laugh]

G: Well, what is Julie Siege's next episode? Let's see. 5.12, "Swap Meat." And then "99 Problems."

C: Is that the one where Sam's like, in a teenage boy’s body and vice versa?

G: Dean- No no no, Dean is in a teenage boy's body in Season 10. 'Cause Sam-

C: Dean's in a teenage boy's body, too? 'Cause doesn't Sam- he looks through the room, and he goes, "Virgin." [laughs]

G: What? No, Dean likes Taylor Swift, and that's a 2015 episode. I think "Swap Meat" is Sam in a teenager's body.

C: Dean doesn't switch bodies with an existing teen. He is [overlapping] just a teenager himself. Sam's switching bodies with a teenager.

G: This is true. The last thing she writes is "99 Problems."

C: Oh, which is incredibly misogynistic, right? [G: Yeah.] Not a good run for Julie Siege.

G: Is this the couch? [laughs] [C: The- yeah.] The Sam and Cas couch scene? Okay, yeah.

C: The Sastiel couch scene [laughs] that launched a hundred AMVs.

G: Incomprehensible to literally everyone who was- [laughs] It's incomprehensible to anyone who is not invested in such matters.

C: [laughs] They look at each other at the same time on a couch. That's it. [G, laughing: Yeah, that's it.] And it means nothing. Or does it?

G: And everything to me [C: Me.] and all the Sastiel AMV makers.

C: It does. It's very well-synced.

G: This episode's good and so bad it's unreal. [laughs]

C: Yeah. Every single joke is like, "I hate Julie Siege." But every single Sam scene, it's like, "I love you, Sam Winchester." And every single Dean scene is a tossup between "I hate this man so much it's unreal!" and "Aww!" So that's fun for me. I also- I felt like- this is- Every single episode, I say this. Have you noticed? Like, we're so back.

C: "This is Supernatural 'cause it's a real case episode that's unrelated to the Apocalypse." [G, laughing: It is!] Is that what you're gonna say?

G: It is! [both laughing] It is! I was so- I was honestly quite happy about the case of it all. Like, I love a case episode. I kinda missed it.

C: I'm beginning to come around on case episodes. Like, yeah. [G: I missed it.] I feel like the current ratio they have going is good. Like, a two to one or a one and a half to one. Like, enough to make me miss case episodes.

G: Yeah, I miss them. I love them. I also love that we are back to being funny. Like, not that I think Supernatural is funny. It's just that we're back to being light. 'Cause I feel like the past few ones have been quite intense, and this one is like, they would do that fucking stupid guitar music that they do when something is supposed to be funny. You know the one, right? [C: Yeah, yeah yeah.] The [imitates it]. And, like, they do it this episode. And I'm like, "Wow. Comedy, I suppose." [C laughs] And it's fun.

Yeah, what did you know about this episode before going in other than Paris Hilton is here? Which, honestly, I didn't even- I mean, I knew, of course. I didn't know that she was gonna be here for as little as she was. [C: Mm.] And also, I didn't know that it was gonna be this kind of Paris Hilton. I thought she was gonna show up and kill the monster with them. [C, laughing: What??]

C: Wait, you, but what about the fucking Oingo Boingo [both laugh] AMV of all the deaths in Supernatural where you see her head roll out?

G: I have not particularly invested time-

C: The "No One Lives Forever" Oingo Boingo- [laughing]

G: - [laughing] in the Oingo Boingo-

C: I've talked about this before! You haven't remedied your ignorance regarding this AMV?

G: No, unfortunately, I have not.

C: Okay. Well, it slays.

G: It literally probably slays.

C: It does. Okay, yeah. So I know that Paris Hilton was there, that she was gonna be the monster at some point, and that Sam was gonna behead her. And I knew that the monster was someone who- I didn't know if it was heroes or fans. I think I wrote down that it was like, it takes on the form of like, the person you want to be the most, or whatever. So then, like, the monster runs across some teenage girls and turns into Paris Hilton, and then Sam has to kill her. That's all I knew.

G: Well, first of all, the most important thing that ever happens in the episode happens in the "Then" sequence [C: Yeah.], which is that [laughing] Sam goes, "Lilith was the final seal!"

C: Oh, that's not what I was talking about. I was talking about that they finally got the video and audio synced up [G laughing] for like, the Sam and Dean leaving each other in 5.02 scene.

G: No, I mean, the episode literally opens with "Lilith was the final seal!" and I was like, "We're in for a ride." And we truly were. We were really in for a ride with this one. So yeah. Lilith was the final seal. And also, you know, remember last episode when I was like, when Dean says, “You better be!” or “I'm sure you are” or whatever- [laughs] "You better be!" is so funny. "You better be" is such a funny thing to think Dean said. [C, laughing: Yeah.] When Dean says, “I know- I'm sure you will be,” or whatever, and I was like, I was so scared of what he will say next because that sounds so ominous. They play that this episode, and they remove the "You're the second-best hunter in the world" line so it's just the ominous, and I appreciate that! I appreciate it.

C: Mm. You enjoyed the editorializing.

G: Yeah, of course! [C laughs]I enjoyed the narrative that is created by splicing clips of Supernatural, and you can just say anything. I still have not moved on that that person said that about my AMV. [C laughs]

G: We start off in a good old, very very classic, "Before-" what's this called? cold open. [laughing] It is so fun to have a cold open that's just completely unrelated to anything that matters. You know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] It's so fun. So refreshing! But yeah, our cold open starts with these two guys. And they're like- one of them is, like, "Dude, I got something that I can't tell you over the phone about. But it's here." And they go over, and there is this sheet that is covering something, and it took me until they unveiled it to realize it's a car. [C: Really?] [laughs] Like, they're in a garage and everything, and I still was like, "I wonder what that is!" [C laughs] It's because it's shaped odd. Like, it's not the usual car shape.

C: Yeah, okay, I was flicking between car and like, lumpy motorcycle for a while.

G: Yeah. Real lumpy one. But yeah, the guy unveils it. And it's obvious that they both know this car. It's Little Bastard. It's a Porsche. They're both so excited. One of them was about to hop into the car and turn it on, and then they were like, "Wait, no no no, we need to video it for posterity." And so one of the guys goes in, gets a camera, and then hears a noise that's like, tires squeaking, glass shattering, blah blah blah. He comes back outside. His friend- or is it? [C laughs]- is dead. So yeah. RIP. I mean, what are stuff that matters in this scene?

C: I mean, he's dead from the windshield going through his face.

G: Yeah, going into his head, but the car has not moved. Which is, like, a pretty fun visual, I would say. [C: Yeah.] And because the car is- [laughs] I don't know. For those who don't remember what Little Bastard looks like, which I did not know about until this episode, it's open. So like, the windshield is like, just like, a piece of glass that's sticking out.

C: Yeah, it's a convertible situation. So if you rammed your face into it really hard, it would be able to do something bad.

G: Yeah. And also, I was thinking about how this guy got the car. 'Cause the way it's talked about is like, it's so expensive. [C: Mm-hm.] And he's just a guy. Like, he has a normal garage. How the fuck did he get this car? Is it also orchestrated by the- whatever?

C: By Leshi? [G: Yeah.] I mean, yeah, I guess so. But also, like, I don't know. [G: Doesn't have to be.] Like, he's clearly just a big fan. Like, I think he could have just gotten into debt to get it. [G: Yeah, okay, well.] And now he doesn't have to repay that.

G: I did feel a little bit attacked later on when there's like, the wax museum guy comes in and starts talking about his collection, and he's like, "Look at this jacket that I own!" [both laugh] And I was like, "Don't do this to me!"

C: Wasn't it a leather jacket too?

G: It was! He was so proud of his leather jacket.

C: Well, I mean, your jacket isn't from anything. It just looks briefly like Dean's.

G: Yeah. Does everybody even know that I- [laughs] [C: Yes, everybody knows, Grey.] Let's not get into it. No! That I dressed up as Dean Winchester for multiple photos [C, overlapping: Dean Winchester for your graduation photos.] Yes. [laughing] For my graduation photos. Do people know that? Well, now they do.

C: God. [laughing] Do you want people to know that?

G: I mean, they're truly atrocious pictures, honestly, [C laughing] if I'm being so for real right now. But yeah, it did happen. [laughing] Why did I do that?

C: Yeah, I mean, I was Castiel for Halloween-

G: [laughing] Yeah, and I thought it was for your birthday.

C: [laughing] For my birthday?? Now, that's embarrassing. No. For my birthday, I had the perfectly normal activity of making a Castiel cardboard cutout that was 6 feet tall with my friends.

G: [laughing] That you put in your closet [C: That I put in my closet.] so that people could be like, "Um, is that Castiel Supernatural?" So true. [C: Yeah.]

C: Dean's driving, per us'. And like, Sam and Dean are talking about a job, the thing that we saw in the cold open. And-

G: [laughing] Sam is so annoying!

C: What?

G: Sam is so annoying!

C: What did he do?

G: I think it's the acting, also. Jared Padalecki is just being like, "Ugh. So, what's this job?" [C laughs] And it's like, [laughs] okay! And, okay. I thought I had this episode was, remember back in the day when I was like, "I just- I like Dean so much more than I like Sam because, like, Sam is so mopey." Which is like, now, looking back, what a mean thing to say [C: - say about a guy whose girlfriend just died, yeah.] because his girlfriend just died and everything. [C laughs] Yeah. But I was like, "He's too sad. It's so annoying!" And now I am feeling it again.

C: He's not even sad!

G: And it's like, he just went through the most traumatic thing.

C: He's not even sad!

G: I know. But like, every time they do like, a sad piano music over him, and it's like, "Girl. Why are you doing this?"

C: I didn't notice the sad piano music.

G: I hate mopey guy characters so much. [C laughs] And girl characters, too, that are mopey. [both] #Equality. [both laugh]

C: He's not- How is saying "What's with this job?" mopey?

G: [laughs] No, it's just- it's the way it's delivered.

C: Like, normal? [G laughs] Like, a guy who's been tasked with delivering exposition?

G: No, exactly. Like, if you're gonna deliver exposition, just be a little bit more interesting about it, I believe.

C: [laughing] So he should've gone, "What's with this job, gamers?" [both laugh] That'd have fixed it?

G: If he did, maybe I would have been like, "What's up back to you, gamer?" and it would be a fun time we'd be having right now.

C: It would raise a lot of questions about Sam Winchester, I think.

G: Would Sam Winchester be a gamer? I don't think he would be.

C: He's like, [laughs] a Tetris gamer. He does, like, Tetris championships. That's his vibe.

G: God, yeah. I'm sure Sam fancies himself a chess, like, connoisseur. [C: Oh, god.] He's so annoying.

C: He definitely tried to join every chess club that was available to him, but he could only stay for a few weeks, and I don't think he ever got that good at it.

G: Aww! Well, don't make it so sad! 'Cause I just called him annoying! [C laughs]

C: Ah, yeah, well, both things can be true. Except both things aren't true because he's not annoying, so, there you go.

G: Well, he's annoying and endearing. He's a killjoy, and he's so funny about it.

C: Yeah, he's hot and he's cold, he's yes and he's no, he's in and he's out, he's up and he's down.

G: Yeah, there's a really good Yakuza AMV about that song. [both laugh] We're so tangent-centered this episode!

C: Yeah, we need to- we need a shorter recording time. Okay. Sam unannoyingly asks about the job. Dean is saying, like, "Isn't it weird?" And Sam just keeps insisting like, "Hey, shouldn't we focus on the Apocalypse. Hey, that's happening right now. Hey, let's look for the Colt. Hey, aren't we gonna kill Satan?" And Dean, I guess he reveals the time skip. He says, "We've been looking for three weeks."

G: He says, "Okay, but Dean, if we're gonna... ice the devil." He's-

C: What?

G: I don't know why I'm so pissed at Sam this episode. Dean is definitely much more annoying.

C: I have no idea. Sam didn't do anything I thought was annoying.

G: No, it's just that like, I mean, later on, it gets verified that Dean is being mean to him. He's not being very niceys.

C: I knew immediately. [G: How?] You didn't know? From this discussion.

G: I mean, I don't think this discussion is mean!

C: I think it establishes that the arc of the episode is going to be that Dean is [G: Of course.] being mean.

G: I mean, I just don't understand why Sam was like, "And this is training wheels for me." And I do appreciate Dean saying that, like, "No, our training wheels, as a team."

C: Wait, Dean's the one that called it training wheels!

G: Yeah, but not for Sam! For the both of them!

C: Well, it's obvious that it's for Sam if Dean's like, saying, "End of discussion" and deciding he's calling all the shots.

G: Well, [laughs] they're training to have this dynamic! [laughing]

C: The dynamic of Dean being in charge of everything?

G: [laughing] Yeah. Yeah! [C: That makes no sense.] Dean really did think that was what they were training for. I mean, Dean really did think that that was what they're supposed to be training for. [C laughs] And then Sam goes, "No, Dean." And he was like, "Ah, okay."

C: Okay, fine, Dean was training both of them to- I don't think Dean needed any training to have this dynamic. [G, laughing: To be so annoying, yeah.] Like, a dog owner doesn't think that they're training themself to be a dog owner.

G: Well, they should!

C: Well, but they don't! [G laughs] Well, anyway, so Sam, who's a wonderful person and has never been annoying in his life, [both laugh] asks, "We're gonna ice the devil?" And Dean snaps, kind of. "This is what we're doing. Okay? End of discussion." And Sam sighs and looks unhappy about this situation, and Dean tries to, you know, make it nicer by saying that "This is our first real case back at it together. We should ease into it, put the training wheels back on."

G: He says "we"!

C: Yeah. So? People use "we" to talk about everything. And also, like, he is the one who's putting training wheels on Sam.

G: Ugh. I mean, I'm not gonna defend Dean's character that much, but [C: But?] I'm gonna defend it a little bit.

C: More? You already have.

G: I think, like, it's because we didn't see the three weeks. That's why I am- And because you already think terribly about Dean, and I tried to think of him benevolently, that's why I'm like, "No!" [laughs] Because we didn't see the three weeks, so I could just apply anything to that, etc.

C: So you're saying he was soo nice for three weeks. And then, suddenly, with Paris Hilton case, he was, like, authoritarian again?

G: No, it's just that when they parted last time, it seems like Dean really was trying. And now, perhaps the fact that they didn't really talk it out or anything, they just decided to go back into the life, is catching up with him, and he's beginning to be a bit pissy about it.So yeah, it could very well may be that he was niceys in the three weeks, and now this is, like, the breaking point of "I thought I can move past it, but I can't." And here's now, Sam saying like, "Let's move past by talking about it. And maybe if you talk about it, we can."

C: Wait, okay, and this is better than my interpretation because...? Like, why is this a good look for Dean?

G: Because you were just like, "And he meant to be this way this entire time!"

C: Yeah. And he did. [both laugh] But yeah, okay. But like, this is a deliberate choice, though. He is saddling Sam with research while he says terrible things to women in bars.

G: Yeah, it is deliberate. And that's my point! [laughing]

C: What??

G: No, my point is that at some point in the three weeks, [C: He decided to be a dick.] he's like, getting mad again. Yeah!

C: Okay, so you're just say that he decided to be a dick more recently than three weeks ago.

G: Yeah! No, because like, the implication of "He was a dick this entire time was" he decided, the moment that he and Sam had that BM moment last episode that he was-

C: I don't really have an opinion on the three weeks. I just think Dean's terrible for what he's doing right now. He could've been doing anything in the three weeks.

G: No, but I want to put the context in of like, you're spending three weeks of your life interacting with someone that, just shortly before, you have decided to like, never see again, and you've resolved none of your issues. You have just decided to just like, "Let's go for it. Let's just be normal again." And then, like, the feeling of like, "Oh, but that's not actually how it works" is starting to creep up on you. Like, I have some empathy with that.

C: Well, Sam spent three weeks with someone who hates him, and he's still a nice person, so.

G: Yeah. And that person is himself, so.

C: [laughing] Dean also hates him. But-

G: Honestly, I thought, fascinating the way Dean conceptualizes it at the end, which is that "I also started the Apocalypse! I broke the first seal."

C: I will not- Yeah, I appreciate that that was there. But I will never forgive Dean for talking shit about Sam on the phone with Bobby.

G: Well, would you have rather he talked shit about Sam in front of Sam? [laughs]

C: No! I think you can just keep that shit to yourself!

G: [laughing] If you don't have anything nice to say, say it behind their back!

C: No! The point is that he's supposed to be trying to move past this.

G: No, as I said, he's getting pissed about it right now!

C: So like, if you have that thought, you either talk about it in a constructive way with somebody or you just don't.

G: I love toxicity! [laughs] I love being terrible, etc!

C: Only Sam is allowed to be toxic, and he's not, because he's nice.

G: I am sick and tired of blah blah blah!

C: [laughing] What's "blah blah blah"?

G: No, of like, "And Sam is the better character because he's niceys." [C: Well, he is!] And like, I just don't- it doesn't interest me. I don't like nice characters, I don't like mopey characters, and Sam is both of those things! And he's also a killjoy. So what now?

C: But we're currently arguing about Dean's morals, not about how interesting he is.

G: No, but what I'm saying is that I am able to look into Dean's morals more because I find him more interesting than you. Do. Not "more interesting than you," than you do. [laughing] And then- And so I am able to import that kind of generosity and thought towards him [C: Okay, fine.] because I find Sam boring right now!

C: Okay, well, I find Sam interesting, and I think that him spending three weeks-

G: [laughing] And so there's no generosity in thought? [laughs]

C: I think that this episode does a good job of showing the effects of spending three weeks with Dean. 'Cause like, Sam did go in being like, "I'm gonna prove myself to you." And like, "I won't let you down."

G: And then it's just like, it's so obvious that it's not happening.

C: Yeah, that like, yeah. That nothing he's doing is changing how Dean thinks about him, and that Dean still thinks that he's calling the shots, blah blah blah, and they're not back to what they are before. And I think that, yeah, this shows him at a point where he's like, "No, stop it." in a way that's constructive, and I think that it's- [G: Yeah.] I think the episode does a good enough job with Sam already, so I don't have to say much more.

G: Everything that- Especially towards the second half of this episode, like, it must be so gratifying for Sam to be like, "I'm gonna put myself out there and speak my mind," and it works. [C: Yeah!] Like, for the first time in forever, it works. And like, that must feel very gratifying.

C: Yeah, I think for him to be at a place where he's even able to vocalize, like, "Part of why I went off with Ruby was because of an issue with our former dynamic," like, he had to be sitting on that for like, years. And, like, when the Apocalypse happened, he probably felt at first, like, "I can never tell Dean this, because, like, I can never, like, not be guilty about this." So I'm really proud of him for making it to this point. But that's for later.

G: Yeah, everything actually that we're talking about is for later. [C laughs] But let's not get into it.

C: No, what we're talking about regarding Dean is for now. But yes.

G: I want to inform the audience that I am saying things recreationally in this podcast. [C laughing]

C: Well, I'm saying things professionally. But yeah.

G: Yeah, I'm saying things for the fun of it [laughing] in case people take me so seriously that I think toxicity is good. [C laughs] Well, I think it's bad! But I'm also saying that recreationally.

C: I think toxicity is interesting. Like, Dean had to be a dick for the episode to work.

G: Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. He didn't need to be all the other things that he was this episode, but yeah, he did need to be a dick to Sam.

C: Yeah. So I appreciate it from a writing standpoint, from a "if Dean was a real person standpoint," I would dislike him heartily.

G: I miss Cas. Let's go back to Cas.

C: True. [laughing] It's fine when Cas is toxic.

G: It's fine when Cas is toxic! And every time Cas is on screen, I'm literally just like, having so much fun, it's kind of unreal.

C: Sam goes flatly, unhappily, "So you think I need training wheels?" Dean goes, "No. We. We need training wheels, as a team." [G laughs] [G: Hell yeah.] And Sam's like, "Okay." And Dean calls this a "fresh start for the both of us." He really wants it to be a fresh start.

G: And I believe him.

C: Sure. [G laughing] And as Sam says, "Okay."

G: Yeah. And then this is the part where the "Special Guest Star Paris Hilton" flashes on screen, which is pretty fun.

C: Yeah. Good for her. Is it just 'cause they couldn't get JDM? [laughs]

G: No, literally, I was thinking, "Oh, they didn't put Special Guest Star Jeffrey Dean Morgan here, so she's not gonna turn into John."

C: I think it's 'cause they couldn't get JDM. The absolute hilarity of her about to touch the axe, and then it's like, "No! We can't get JDM on screen right now!"

G: [laughs] No, literally, that's my entire thought process. [laughing] We can get Gandhi, but JDM.

C: [laughing] They didn't get real Gandhi! What do you mean, "We can get Gandhi"?

G: [laughing] No, I'm just kidding. Obviously. I'm saying things recreationally. [both laughing]

C: Yeah. Well, anyway.

G: Well, yeah, we go to office of a sheriff. This sheriff does have a personality that we see throughout this episode. He's not just some sheriff guy.

C: Yeah. I mean, he's there to be, like, bad at inference so Sam and Dean can laugh.

G: Yeah. Be like, a hacky detective or whatever he is. They show their FBI badges, which I did miss. Unfortunate that I actually like Supernatural. Can you believe it?

C: I can believe it.

G: How would you say you believe it? What are the proofs of concept that I love Supernatural?

C: Like, about once a week, like, I get on this zoom call with, like, you, right? [G laughs] And then you say the words, "I love Supernatural." [G laughing] So probably from that.

G: Season 5 has been treating me moderately well in terms of the loving Supernatural. They investigate the death of the guy who just died. And the sheriff shows the video that was recorded, and then he says that, "Oh, obviously, the guy who was recording was the one who killed the dead guy because that's just what happens!" So Sam and Dean insist on interviewing the guy anyway, and when they do, he tells them, "The car did it!" And at first they're like, not believing. And then he says, "It's Little Bastard," like, the car. And Dean knows this car, so, good for him. And yeah, I think they mention it earlier, but it's like, James Dean's car. Dean's very excited. He was like, "Okay, we're gonna check this out."

C: Yeah. Oh, and also the guy they're interviewing says that- he says that the guy who died had been looking for it for years, so clearly, he's a James Dean fan.

G: So we go to the garage. Is it still the garage of the guy we met, or is it a different place? But wherever it is, I feel incredibly sad that I wasted all of my carfucker Dean jokes last episode. [both laugh]

C: Yeah, you were like, "Crystal, you can't say he fucks the exhaust pipes!" He does. He does, though.

G: He wants to fuck this car. Dean loves cars. He really does. And I think, last episode, I also said he's a one car guy. "He's not even a car guy. He's a one-car guy." [C: No.] Or maybe I didn't say it, then.

C: You did say he's only a one-car guy recently.

G: Yeah. But he's not even a one-car guy. He's a car-car guy. So yeah. He literally will- [laughs] weren't you the one who was like, "He's going to watch Cars in a drive-in?"

C: [laughing] Yeah, at a drive-through theater with Baby as a date, yeah.

G: Yeah. [laughs] And he's gonna whistle when the blue car comes in who's the love interest [C: Literally.] and then he's slap Baby's- whatever that part is and go, "Don't worry, Baby! [C laughing] You're still like, the most beautiful car in the world."

C: [laughing] I don't know if I said that part. I think you're just riffing, but I enjoy the riffing.

G: No, you definitely did. You did.

C: I did? [G: Yes!] Well, congrats on past me for being funny. I said the drive-through date, but I don't know if I said the rest. I'm gonna look up "Porsche." [laughing] Oh my god, I did say, "And I think he gave a little whistle at the blue Porsche who's the love interest in Cars, and then immediately, he was like, 'Oh, no, don't worry, Baby, she'll never be as beautiful as you!'" [both laugh] I guess I did say all that.

G: Literally! This is literally what David is doing in his free time. But anyway, he is so pleased with the car. He starts explaining the lore, which is, you know, fun for him, because this is not usually his job.

C: I don't think he- I don't think Jensen Ackles plays it excited enough for it to like, surpass that this is clearly exposition.

G: That one. But he does go underneath it, and it is a scene. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] I mean, the thing is, when Sam is doing exposition, it's very clear that it's exposition, but this one is supposed to inform us of a character of Dean, which is that he loves to- [laughs] He loves cars. [laughing] I don't know what was supposed to be after-

C: [laughing] He loves to- He loves to what, Grey? [both laughing] What does he love to do regarding cars?

G: Well, he loves to look at cars and talk about them! Who'd have thunk?

C: Yeah, I think the fact that it's meant to be a character thing makes it like, a worse scene, I think, [G: Worse acting performance, yeah.] because I think Jensen Ackles is incapable of carrying it through. 'Cause usually when Sam's delivering exposition, it's because he's trying to deliver information [G: Just get over it, yeah.] so it matches up.

G: "So check this out, Dean." [laughs] That's Sam's line. Well, the story is that the car crashed, and then the wreckage was being fixed up by a guy, and then the guy gets killed by the car falling on him, and then blah blah blah blah blah. And so the car is, like, haunted. And Dean is like, "Oh, the guy who was looking for it for a million years didn't know that the real trick was looking at the engine. He only looked at the outside! He should have looked at the engine." And so Dean looks at the engine. [C: Yeah.] So [laughing] the way he fucking looks at this engine number is so ungodly funny to me. First off! First off! [C: Well, before he goes under-] Sam volunteers, and Dean goes, "No, no, no." [laughs] And he's like, scared, you know? He looks scared.

C: Yeah, he's supposed to be playing scared that the car is gonna kill him. But all the, like, breathlessness just really seems like, he wants to fuck the car.

G: Yeah. And then he caresses, like, the hood of the car or whatever, and then he goes, "Okay, baby. I'm not gonna hurt you, so don't hurt me."

C: So you know how, last episode, we said most things people call "cheating" isn't cheating. [G laughing] Him calling another car "baby"? That's cheating. [both laughing] I take back everything I said about, like, the social construct of monogamy-

G: [laughing] We were speaking recreationally back then.

C: [laughing] We were speaking recreationally. [G: We're speaking professionally now.] I'm dead serious now. This is cheating.

G: Literally! There's this iconic shot of Dean, like, people gif this to hell and back where he is on that thing that rolls under cars, and he has a pencil in his mouth, and then he rolls into the car, and, you know. It's a whole scene. People would recognize it from anywhere. And-

C: I don't think I've seen it before. [G: I've definitely seen it.] But I have the Dean Winchester tag blocked, so.

G: [laughing] Yes, this is true. I should have the Sam Winchester tag blocked just for funsies so we can be equals. [C laughs] But it's never gonna happen because I do like Sam. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, he rolls in there, and the number is so visible.

C: Yeah, I don't know why he has to take an engraving of it! He could literally just say what the numbers are out loud to Sam, and Sam could write it down. He could've memorized.

G: I mean, what I thought was gonna happen is he's gonna go under there and he's gonna tell Sam "8. 0. 1." Like, I literally- why else would you do this? Why would you put yourself in so much danger? Touch the car, even! He was touching the car. I feel like that's the number one thing you shouldn't do in this situation. But, you know.

C: Well, he couldn't keep his hands off her.

G: And it's like, there's a lot of tense moments where it's like, it's shaking. "Oh, no, it's gonna fall on him!" blah blah blah. But it literally isn't. Like, we're all lying to ourselves. [C: Yeah.] And again, he takes an engraving of the number, except at some point we look through the camera at what he's doing, and it's nothing. It's doing nothing.

C: [laughing] Yeah, the engraving isn't doesn't do anything. It's just a fucking scribble. The letters aren't deep enough or whatever to actually cause the letters to show up. It's hilarious.

G: Yeah, because it's not like it's above. Like, it's not- I don't know what the difference between engraving and emboss is. Emboss is it's upper, right? Like, it's protruding out. [C: Yeah, I think so.] It's not embossed. It's like, engraved into. So like, the thing that you are gonna get is going to be not as prominent as if it was embossed, so I have no idea why they're doing this at all. [C: Yeah.] I do find it funny that, like, after that one shot, they were probably like, "Oh, yeah, it looks really bad." and just never show it to us ever again. [C laughs] Iconic.

C: Yeah. Yeah. Also, while Dean's under the car, there's a very comedic moment where like, we have a side view, and then suddenly Sam's head pops down 'cause he's like, flung himself under the car-ish also, and he goes, "Need a flashlight?" [G: So true.] And Dean goes, "Don't do anything. Just go away!" Okay, like-

G: Dean says, "Don't even look at her. She might not like it."

C: [laughing] Yeah! Like, bro. Bro. Yeah.

G: Dean is truly a character.

C: He is truly a character. Like, he was so kind to offer Sam Baby, like, at the end of 5.02 'cause like, [G: Now that I understand their relationship.] that was his vibrator, too. [both laugh] Like, yeah.

G: Now that I understand their relationship, I forgive Dean for never making Sam drive that car except for today! [C laughs]

C: Yeah, literally.

G: Well, anyway, he gets the fucking engraving but he doesn't, really, I don't even know. And it doesn't even matter anyway, so who give a shit? And then he sends Sam out to do research for like, an entire afternoon while he, I don't know, does things. And what he does, we'll find out.

C: So he's at a tavern called the Green Dragon. Fun name. And he's talking to a bartender who is, of course, a #PrettyWoman. And he's doing the thing that he did before in [G: He did before, yeah.] "Shadow"? [G: He did before, yeah.] Was it "Shadow," or?

G: I'm not sure what it was, but it was- yeah. It's terrible! And the thing is here, it's like even more. I don't know. Because last time, it was like, a passing remark, I feel like. Like he was like, "Oh, I told her I was an agent" is kind of how I remember that scene being, versus this one where we see the actual conversation with the woman.

C: Yeah. So it is horrific to watch. So he's trying to flirt with her by lying and basically doing the "If you sleep with me I'll get you a job" thing [G: Yeah.] where he goes, "So you want to be an actress, huh?" And when she says yes, he pulls out a business card and says, "Oh, well, that's so funny, 'cause I'm an agent for William Morris Endeavor!" And like, she takes the card, and he's like, laughin' it up about how he is being sexually predatory, and he thinks that's so fun. Sam calls. Sam's info is that- I mean, we don't have to discuss that more. It's just terrible and Dean should die, right? Yeah. [G: Yeah.] Yeah. Sam's info is that it took a long time, a lot of research, Sam says it took, like, the whole day, but he found all the cars' previous owners.

G: He's just wearing a shirt. [C: Who?] Sam. The costume choices this episode are pretty fun. Like, earlier, there's one where Sam and Dean are like, out of their jackets, so they're in their white button-downs. [C: Mormoncore. But later.] and Crystal said it was Mormoncore. And in this one, Sam is wearing just a t-shirt, and it's the grey t-shirt. Wow! Shout-out to me. But no, it's a grey T-shirt. I feel like, similar to stuff he wears later on in the show-

C: The tits T-shirt?

G: Yeah. Like, the Grey one. You know the one, right? You know the one. [C: Yeah, the one.] Also, when John gets mentioned later, I was like, "Wow, and Dean's not even wearing his 'Dean Winchester is daddy's little-'" What's that? [C: Daddy's blunt little instrument?] Blunt instrument, [laughs] yeah. Dean is not even wearing his daddy's blunt instrument leather jacket. And then afterwards, he wears it, which is hilarious to me. [C: So true.] Yeah, the costuming this episode is pretty fun.

C: The car's history- Sam starts saying it, but then he hears the pool balls near Dean, and he goes, "Dean, are you in a bar?" And Dean goes, "No, I'm in a restaurant," which, honestly, isn't that much better if you're not gonna bring Sam anything back for his meal. [both laugh] Like, rude! [G: Yeah.] But then we have the bartender come back and tell Dean, "Here's your beer." And Sam's like, "Uh-huh." And Dean goes, "That happens to have a bar." And Sam complains that he's been working his ass off here all day. And Dean just goes like, "World's smallest violin, pal. I spent the afternoon up Christine's skirt. I needed a drink." You did not spend the afternoon. We saw it, and it was, like, two minutes. [G laughs]

G: And the suspense was fake.

C: And that was sexually exciting for you. [G laughs] That was like, a good thing for you. Yeah. It was Sam's whole day. And like, I don't want to get into the Samgirl/Deangirl debate anymore, but isn't the idea here that Dean thinks that Sam deserves to suffer? [G: Huh.] Or that he deserves more than Sam does?

G: Well, I suppose so. I didn't really think about it, which is, you know, typical of Deangirl. [C: Yeah, typical Deangirl.] I cannot believe we have gone back to being a Deangirl vs Samgirl podcast. I thought we were past this! I thought we were all just Samgirls at this point. You know that one- [laughs] you know when people are like, "I love that your podcast is Samgirl," I'm sorry for betraying literally everyone. [C laughs]

C: I mean, the people say that are not Samgirls, because real Samgirls know that neither of us make the cut.

G: Yeah. If you saw the Samgirls I interact with, you would throw up. [C laughs] I think it's just there is a degree of Samgirl- or Deangirlism- or Casgirlism, even, that just becomes extremely difficult to maintain once you're in the show. Once you're watching it week to week. Like, at some point, something's gotta give. And for me, it gave, like, Season 4, Season- yeah, that I was completely on Sam's side in every single step of the way, and I hated Dean. [C: That was nice.] But now, we are back.

C: Now we're back, baby. Yeah, such is how it is. Or, okay, I'm trying to figure out- It's not- I don't know if it's like, "Sam deserves to suffer." I think it's like- I think it is the whole like, "Sam has the training wheels on. I'm in charge. So, like, I delegate tasks. I can have fun. Sam's making up for the Apocalypse, so like-"

G: I mean, it could also just very well be "I don't want to spend time with him, and he's going to do the research anyway, so I'm just going to-" Which is, I mean, I'm not saying that as an excuse, like that's a benevolent thing. Like, obviously, it's not.

C: They haven't inspected the body yet.

G: Ah, you're right. They could be separate, and Dean could still be doing something.

C: Yeah. 'Cause typically when they're apart [G: Separate, yeah. They're both working the case.], they're both doing a task. Like, one of them is interviewing a witness and one of them is doing blah. So like, it is a deliberate choice that Dean is like, "This is like, you do all the hard stuff right now, 'cause I'm in charge, and I don't wanna!" [G: Yeah yeah yeah.] But I do think that part of the "I needed a drink" could be like, the "I want to get away from you" thing. [G: Yeah.] So yeah. And I I feel like every time Dean has been slightly mean to Sam, like, he thinks, "Well, he started the Apocalypse!" [G laughs] Like, it is a easy go-to sentence for him to think to justify his actions to himself.

Sam has found that nothing about the car is haunted. It is a fake Little Bastard.

C: We cut to the house of a man named Mr. Hill, who we find out later, is a professor at, like, the University of Canton, Ohio, or something. And his maid comes in. And she is Latina, specifically, she's from El Salvador, she says later. And she tells him that she's done.

G: She has an accent.

C: Yeah, she has an accent. And she tells him that she's done, and he bids her goodbye. Then he breathes out. The air is cold. And he turns about and he goes, "Oh my god! It's you! [both] You're dead! You're supposed to be dead!" I would assume it's a guy in a fucking costume! Like, how do you know-

G: Well, first of all, "you're supposed to be dead" is such a funny fucking thing to say-

C: [laughing] Such a funny thing to say about Abraham Lincoln! Like, "I dreamed, always-"

G: Like, that is not the first thought! That is not the first thought!

C: That is what you say to like, someone you murdered, or like, your ex-wife, who like, died like, [G: Recently.] 10 years ago, you know?

G: Yeah. Like, not a person who has been dead pretty much your entire life.

C: [laughing] I mean, definitely your entire life, yeah. God. What a silly-

G: [laughing] When it was revealed it was Abraham Lincoln, [C laughs] I did laugh. I was like, "Why did he say that, then? He's supposed to be dead?"

C: Yeah. And I think the idea is that he's such a big fan of him that, like, he does feel like a close personal friend [G: This is real to him.], so he reacts the way that you would to a close personal friend.

G: Like, me when I see Caravaggio, I'll be like, "You're supposed to be dead!" [both laughing]

C: "But I always knew that you would come back for me!"

G: For real. I mean, I also want to use this platform to ask an important question, which is, how do you pronounce his surname? Lihn-cun? Lihn-col-n. [C: Lincoln?] Lincoln. As in LinkedIn without the D?

C: I guess? That's how I say it. Lincoln. Yeah.

G: Okay. Well, that's good to know, because I've always just did "Lihn-cun." [laughs]

C: Yeah, it's Abraham Lincoln. But, like, again, there are Abraham Lincoln impersonators everywhere! Like I would not see a guy who looks just like Abraham Lincoln and go like, "Oh my god! It's Abraham Lincoln come back to life!" [G laughing] I'd just be like, "That's some good makeup." But yeah.

G: And it's not like, yeah, he looks, like, convincingly real.

C: Yeah, he doesn't even look that much like the existing photos of Abraham Lincoln!

G: He's just wearing a top hat!

C: [laughs] Yeah, he's got the correct style and stuff, but I don't think his face is really that similar. [G: Yeah.] Like, it's more similar than an average person's face is to Abraham Lincoln, but like, it's not, like, exact.

G: [laughing] Do you think they couldn't hire a James Dean? [C: Oh, yeah.] People they couldn't hire: Jeffrey Dean Morgan and a James Dean impersonator.

C: Real. He like, sort of growls at Mr. Hill, like, with his teeth showing, and [G: Chokes him out.], yeah, he chokes him out. And there's a big splatter of blood that hits a framed copy of the Emancipation Proclamation that is hanging on this guy's wall. My god! 'Cause later, it's like, he was a Civil War professor. So it's like- But being a Lincoln fan is a different thing than being a Civil War professor. [G: That's true.] So like, he really likes this guy. I think that the framed thing is like, he's like, a really big- Why would you frame the Emancipation Proclamation?

G: I don't think- What is- It's supposed to be your biggest idol? Because I genuinely do not buy that Sam's biggest idol is Gandhi.

C: I think it's just anyone who [G: You admire?] you admire enough. 'Cause it's like, the wax museum didn't have everybody.

G: Yeah. Well, we don't have to think of this, then, as he's like, a Lincoln superfan. Or Lincoln. [laughs] I still don't know how to pronounce it.

C: I think having the Emancipation Proclamation framed is pretty Lincoln superfan.

G: I mean, that could really be, like, a professor thing. It is an important document.

C: I guess? I guess.

G: I don't know. I'm trying to rationalize it because- not for this guy, but for Sam, later. Sam doesn't have Gandhi poster.

C: [laughing] Yeah, I don't think that's his biggest hero.

G: Yeah. But yeah. So I'm trying to think of like, maybe he's just like, he's a professor, and he also admires Lincoln. Lihncoln. So like, you know, it just so happens.

C: Yeah, I just feel like whoever decided this just doesn't know that much about the Emancipation Proclamation. Or okay, I guess he could admire it as like, a strategic move and not as a civil rights move or whatever. I guess that is typical Civil War professor behavior. All right, I have no criticisms.

G: I think what's interesting about a lot of professors is you would expect them to deal with complexity about their subject matter, but also, who is the type of person-

C: - who would be like, "I want to spend my whole life teaching this topic"? Exactly.

G: Which is where the crux is, yeah.

C: Yeah, like, some people are into it 'cause they find the complexity interesting. And some people are into it because they're like [G: "Ooh, cool stuff!"], "Oh my god, Abraham Lincoln was like, such a good guy!"

G: You can learn the complexity, of course, but if you come in already taking a certain mindset, which, well, that's kind of- that you have to choose to be this kind of professor.

G: There's a whole police hubbub about this. And the sheriff is saying that like, I don't know, "There's gotta be an explanation," and he goes like, "It's a professional killer, and they're like, trained assassins, and they don't leave fingerprints" and all that. And Sam and Dean are just like, "Okay, well, can we talk to the witness?" And the sheriff goes, "Well, sure, but she's not making any sense! And she's not making any sense in Spanish, either." [C: Booo!] So yeah, this is where we talk about it, I feel.

C: Yeah, just, this line just does so much work regarding the, "Oh, this is racist for realsies." [laughs]

G: Yeah, the tone-setting of this scene.

C: Yeah. 'Cause before, it was like, "This is a stereotypical role, and I wish that Supernatural had Latinas that play, like, other roles." But, like, here, it's like, oh, no, this is bad. [laughs] Yeah, no 'cause it's like- it's very gimmicky, the way it is. [G: Yeah, that's what I don't like about it.] It's like, "Oh, boy, look at this new challenge that we've thrown up against the brothers: someone who can't speak English!"

G: I think for me, it's that they would only do this if it has to be a contrived plot thing in this way. Like, they won't- Supernatural won't ever just have a character who has an accented English, or who speaks Spanish primarily, just because. Or, I don't know. Maybe they do in the future. I feel like I would know, though, if they did. [laughs] But okay. Yeah. So, like here, it's so explicitly like-

C: Like, "We went out and we hired this person specifically because we wanted [G: For this gag.] for her only thing to be that she can't speak English very well." Also, I don't know. I think people have talked about the lack of translators in like, police departments. [G: Oh, of course.] I think mostly heard about it regarding, like, domestic abuse in immigrant families, because usually the husband is the one who's doing the abuse, and is also better at English. So like, he can, like, shape the narrative, like, in the way that he wants it to be seen. But yeah, yeah, I don't know it. It is- like, police shouldn't exist, but if they do exist, they should have translators. [laughs]

G: Yeah. She's saying that she's from El Salvador, which, as you said, she mentions. And she witnessed the thing.

C: Yeah. She's very shaken about it. Sorry to this woman.

G: Yeah. And so Sam and Dean approach her about it. And Dean is the one who starts talking first. And, you know, [laughs] he's speaking in English, and he's saying that like, "Well, did you see something? You did, right?" And she's speaking in Spanish, and Sam pushes Dean aside and was like, "Okay, I'll try." And he like, tries. Apparently, he did freshman Spanish.

C: Yeah. I'm assuming at Stanford, 'cause freshman could be high school or college. But I feel like, you need a consistent year-

G: Very good for, I feel like that's very good for one year.

C: One year, or one semester, maybe?

G: Is it one year or one semester, yeah. For one semester?

C: I'm not sure what Stanford's foreign language requirements for graduation are. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, but either one year or one semester. And it was a while ago. It was 8 years ago?

G: Yeah. You have to practice this shit! She's saying that she saw someone tall, and someone with a bigote, so a beard, a mustache. And, well, he doesn't have a mustache, right? [both] He just has a beard. Yeah. And also, like, she's describing the outfit. She's describing the hat. And there's like, a whole thing where it's like, she goes, "Oh, he's wearing a sombrero," and Dean's like, "[laughs] He's wearing a sombrero?" and Sam's like, "No no no, not sombrero like that. Sombrero like just a hat." And she describes it as big, and then she, like, keeps motioning that is, like, tall and tall and tall. And Dean goes, "Oh. Like Abraham Lincoln." [laughs] I pronounce it different every single time I say it.

C: It's fine, I don't notice.

G: And she goes, "Exactly! Like the President Lincoln!" Sam and Dean are like, "What?" She says, "Abraham Lincoln killed Mr. Hill." And then yeah.

C: Yeah. And the point is like, the last- like, she's been speaking in Spanish, but the last line, the "Abraham Lincoln killed Mr. Hill" is in English. And the point is like, "Oh, like, we're gonna make it understandable to everyone at the end to make it so so funny." And like, I think that adds on to the whole like, "they only brought this character in for the gimmick." Because the point of her like, shouting it at the end is like, she is sort of overcome with emotion or something about it, and she's distressed and like, I feel like you don't do the work of like, translating stuff into English when like, you're saying something, like, very distressed. So it is just for the- it's just a whole setup for, you know, the gimmick that we mentioned earlier. Not a fan.

G: Not a fan. We keep on saying this. I wish there was more people in Supernatural and people of different kinds, different kinds of people. [C: Yeah.] And Supernatural just fails so severely at that. And when they do have a person that they don't usually have, it's always this kind of gimmick. So, not fun for me.

C: They will never hire a person of color unless they're to be a person of color.

G: Yeah. Isn't that so annoying? [C: Yeah.]

C: We're back to the motel, and Dean's watching the video of like, the car death at the beginning. And then he sees, like, a reflection of a guy in one of the wheels. And then he calls Sam over, and he's like, "Wait, doesn't that look like James Dean?" It looks like nothing. It looks like a blur. [laughs] But-

G: Yeah, I have no idea how Dean notices this.

C: I don't know. Maybe, like, the red jacket is like, an iconic James Dean look or something.

G: I'm sure it is, or maybe it isn't. [C: Yeah.] [laughing] Isn't everything black and white back then? [both laughing]

C: Yeah, most of the photos on his Wikipedia page are- like, all of them appear to be black and white.

G: Wait, no no no. He does have a red jacket thing going, I think, because if you look up "james dean red jacket," there's a jacket that he wears.

C: Okay. So they start discussing like, "Wow, like, I guess we have like, famous ghosts going on. Like, that's dumb." Sam first makes the observation that the ghosts are killing their fans. Dean calls that "Muchos loco," and-

G: Sam goes, "It's muy."

C: Yeah. Sam goes, "It's muy, not muchos." [G sighs] Yeah.

C: Sergio's boy, not mushers. And yeah, I think. Yeah, first, Dean is so annoying. 'Cause like, clearly, he's just saying that as a "Isn't it funny that we ran into someone who speaks Spanish today? [G laughs] Isn't that, like, a funny thing that one experiences in one's life?" And I think that the Sam correction... is positive?

G: I think they're also just making Dean take the offensive role, and so Sam, as the writer can go like, "Ahaha! I know it looks racist, but not really! [C laughs] 'Cause Sam's correcting him!"

C: Yeah, yeah. So it's like- [G: "It's fine!"] "So we're just making fun of Dean right now for saying muchos, so it's fine. But like, we are introducing the initial idea that, like, someone who speaks Spanish is something that one could laugh at." [G: Yeah.] So it's like, you could have just not done any of it in the first place [G laughs] instead of trying out this balancing act.

C: They're saying like, "Why are the ghosts here instead of, you know, where they were during their life?" And then Sam does a little bit of research while Dean is drinking soda by the sink. And then he goes, "You gotta be kidding me." We don't see what it is, but Dean repeats this sentence, and they go to a wax museum!

G: Yeah, the wax museum thing is actually pretty cool. I liked it.

C: Yeah. The play it as "wax museums are so weird and no one wants to come here," but it's like, [laughs] I think they're kinda cool.

G: Yeah. When my dad went to LA, he went to the Madame Tussaud's one. [laughs] [C: I haven't been.] And he took pictures with the basketball players, which is so typical dad behavior.

C: That's so correct of him.

G: They go in, and it's dead silent in this space. Like, there's nobody here, which is brought up later, when the museum- what is he? a curator? [C: Yeah.] Or owner? Yeah. When the museum owner says, like, "Oh, we're a bit busy." And Dean looks at the completely empty hall like, "Oh, this is busy?" And he goes, "Well, it's busy later. It's early right now." [laughing] And Dean goes, "It's 4:30," which I find pretty funny. Like, I'm sorry to this guy. But yeah, the implication is that, "Oh, it's so weird. Wax museums are so weird. And the people who run them are so weird." It's literally fine! And also, these are like, really nice wax-

C: Yeah, they are really nice. I think the idea is that it's like, creepy. [G: Yeah.] But it's like, you are literally in the Supernatural show. Like, get over it.

G: Dean walks up to Gandhi and says, "He's short." [C: Yeah.] And Sam says, "Hey, Gandhi was a great man," [C laughs] and Dean goes, "Yeah, for a Smurf." What is this? I thought it was just completely-

C: Yeah, wow. Like, okay. Initially, when Sam said, "Hey, Gandhi was a great man," I was like, "Short is not that much of an insult." [G laughs] Like, if Sam thinks short is an insult, like, maybe he does disrespect Dean and hate him so much. [G laughs] But then Dean really just brings it home by being quite rude about it, so I guess Sam anticipated correctly.

G: Again, like, they're playing the role of someone who is an asshole and someone who is like, "Haha! Look, I'm not an asshole, so therefore, the show isn't terrible!" [C: Yeah.] Like, "The morality of the show's fine because we have one person saying, 'That's kind of fucked up, dude.'"

C: I don't even know if that's- I feel like for the Gandhi stuff, it seems like, 'cause later, Sam's embarrassed to say fruitarian. And so is it even "guy who's an asshole" and "guy who's not an asshole"? Or is it, like, "funny guy" and "wet blanket." Like, what does Julie Siege think people think people are seeing here?

G: Wait, so Dean's supposed to be a funny guy?

C: I think that with like, a lot of the Gandhi jokes, it feels like Dean is, like, a funny guy, and Sam is a wet blanket is the dynamic that they're going with, which is worse.

G: Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you're right. It could be what they're going for of, like, "Dean's being funny and Sam's being so serious and a killjoy." Sorry for calling you that constantly, Sam, and now defending your honor. [C laughs] But yeah. You're right. I mean, but Dean is not funny, so.

C: Yeah, Dean is not funny, but I do think that we're supposed to be like, on Dean's side later when he's like, "Oh my god! Like, you picked such a loser guy to be a fan of!" [G sighs] I think we are supposed to be like, "Haha! So true, Dean." [G: Yeah.] So that's why I feel like with the Gandhi stuff, it might be-

G: I mean, I think Sam is a loser for completely different reasons! [both laugh] Like, I think he's a loser for liking Gandhi, but for completely different reasons than Dean thinks.

C: Like, I think it's fine to like a guy who's a fruitarian. But yeah, [laughs] there are other reasons to be a loser for liking Gandhi.

G: [laughs] Yeah! Yeah. And also, just Dean saying like-

C: I'm surprised that Dean didn't bring up the like, "You don't really do the nonviolence thing, though, do you?" [both laugh] thing.

G: [laughing] I mean, I mentioned it to you earlier, but [both laughing] when Sam was like, "I thought Gandhi, the ghost or whatever, was trying to take a bite out of me, but he can't possibly be, because..." and then he takes a pause, and there's like, a really long, "Why? Why is he not gonna eat you, Sam?" And I literally thought it was because he was on a hunger strike. [both laughing] Like, I genuinely was so afraid that that's what they were gonna say!

C: [laughing] I was also waiting for that to happen, yeah. I don't know. I feel like their thinking about Sam thinking Gandhi is a great man only extends as far as like, the not-even-Gandhi quote of "Be the change you wish to see in the world" and not- I don't know. Yeah, I guess same with Abe Lincoln. They made this episode about people who are fans of people, but I don't think they actually looked into those people further than the pop culture knowledge about them.

G: Yeah, I mean, there is, you know, like, the first one is like, a fan in a very dogged, looking for the car way.

C: Okay, they did do research about James Dean. They did know things about James Dean for this episode. I don't think they knew things about Abe Lincoln or Mahatma Gandhi.

G: No, I mean, like, what I'm saying is the guy who was looking for the James Dean car, like, you don't really get to that level of doggedness without, at some point, like, kind of forgetting that the person was a person. [C: Yeah.] So like, I don't know. It's not like they're saying that like, "And the way this person admires this idol is the correct way to do it." [C: Right.] And, I mean, Dean's idol is apparently John Winchester [C screams], so obviously, that's not the point they're making that like, "This person has an accurate idea of what their idol is like." So yeah. [C: Yeah.] Okay, fine. Sam has an inaccurate idea of what is admirable about everything in the world.

C: Yeah. [laughs] Better than your hero being John Winchester, though. [laughs]

G: [laughing] What if- imagine- that's so funny! What a fucking funny thing! And they can't even hire JDM.

C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was busy being on The Walking Dead along with Lauren Cohan.

G: This is true. So Sam and Dean tell this owner that they're here to write an article about wax museums. [C: And "how non-sucky they are."] And they ask about the Abe Lincoln and the James Dean exhibits. And the owner, like, says that "Oh, the people who died are our regulars." and etc etc.

C: Yeah. That professor comes in to stare at the statue of Abe Lincoln, like, every week.

G: Yeah. That is- that is something. The James Dean one, too. Do you think those two are gay for each other?

C: The professor and the-?

G: [laughs] No. The two friends who were into James Dean. Maybe they were triangulating desire.

C: Yeah, I did think there was maybe something going on, but then the other guy died real fast, so.

G: Yeah. It's the triangulation of desire. [C: Exactly.] So apart from those, he also says that what sets this museum apart is that there is actually, like, real things from the owner, from the person that is being modeled that the wax model is wearing. So like, Abe Lincoln's hat is the hat and Gandhi's glasses are his glasses, etc etc. So these wax figures have the "remains," quote unquote, of their owners, which is a pretty fun, like, red herring. I mean, it's not a red herring, because the god does use the remains, right?

C: I'm surprised that they don't get more visitors. [G: Yeah.] Like, Abe Lincoln's real hat. Like, that's an iconic, like, item of the guy. And there are Abe Lincoln fans out there.

G: What it is for me is that's what you're gonna pay for, more than the wax figure, honestly. [C: Yeah, just to see his hat.] You're gonna pay for the artifacts, which, these are artifacts. And they're just on display like that. You can just touch them.

C: They're just out in the open. Like, there's no glass around. [G: Yeah.] How did the hat survive?

G: Yeah, no idea. I think this guy's lying. [both laugh]

C: I mean, he's not, or else Leshi wouldn't have been able to transform, I suppose.

G: Yeah, this is true. Also, I think earlier, I think you were asking how- Also, this guy is like. "Oh, my leather jacket! It's also an artifact from The Fonz, seasons 2 through 4!" And this guy keeps on double thumbs upping, which later on, Sam does do. [both laugh] He thumbs up this guy, which I thought was fun. And I mean, I am a bit- you know, like, I don't like that they're making fun of this guy. This guy did nothing wrong. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] And he's, you know, I mean, he falls under the same trap, I think, of the other people of like, quote "idolizing" these people in a way that is not indicative of their value as people. But whatever. [laughs] I think it's cool to collect stuff. So yeah, that's my hot take that is not hot. Also, Sam says, "Wow, yeah, that's really cool... ish." [C laughs] which I thought was extremely rude. That's so rude. He should have just said, "That's so cool!" Yeah.I mean, Sam, have you never had to go, "Yeah, sure, that's interesting" to anyone? Do you think Sam has ever done that? Like, "Oh, that's interesting." Or is he the type of person to be like, "I need to be honest to this person [C laughing], and I just want to say, that's interesting-ish."

C: I think that if you're around Dean, you can't call everything interesting 'cause Dean will keep talking.

G: This is true. They need to tone each other down. Eventually, they, you know, decide that they're gonna come back to this wax museum later that night. So Sam is cocking guns [C laughs] in the trunk of the Impala.

C: It's a very funny transition because it's like, we're in the museum, the lights are on, everything's happy, he's giving a double thumbs up. And then we immediately cut to the dead of night with like, ominous music playing [both laugh] as Sam like, loads up guns, yeah.

G: Yeah. And as he goes into the room, the door is like, ajar, so he just steps in, and Dean can't hear him, and Dean's back is turned towards the window, and he is talking on the phone. And, you know, he's talking about, "Oh, we have this case. We have this case. Oh, why is it happening? I don't know. Probably the Apocalypse. Yeah, we all know whose fault that is." And then maybe, like, Bobby on the other side was like, "Dean, don't say that." And he goes, "Well, I'm sorry, but it's true." [C: I hate him.] And Sam is there. Yeah, this is horrible. This is horrible! [C: Thank you.] I did feel immense like, "Ugh! I thought we were trying!" [C: Exactly!] But as I've said earlier, blah blah blah. [C laughs] But yeah, Sam gets upset by this, and then, like, makes the door make a sound so that Dean will see that he's there, and Dean hangs up. And he just proceeds like normal, like nothing has happened. And Sam just says like, "So are we just going to pretend that I didn't hear all that?"

C: Well first, he asks, "Who was on the phone?" and Dean says, "Bobby," thus confirming for Sam that Bobby only loves him as a coworker [laughs] once more.

G: [laughing] No, imagine if that was Cas. For a second, I was like, "What if he's talking to Cas?"

C: [laughing] For a second, I thought it was Cas. [G: Did you?] For a second, I thought it was Cas, yeah.

G: I appreciate the idea that Sam is defending Sam because he's like, secretly like, "Well, it's my fault, honestly, if we think about it."

C: "Yeah, well, I opened the door, man."

G: [laughs] But he's never gonna tell Dean that, ever, ever in his life. So yeah, unfortunate. And yeah. And Sam says, like, "Are we just going to pretend?" And Dean says, "Pretend or don't pretend, whatever floats your boat."

C: What a dick. [G: Yeah.] He's just so like, "I'm not gonna apologize for what I said. It's true." Like, that is what he's saying. And it's like, wow. Wow, Dean. I'm glad Sam called him out.

G: Like, "It's your job to think whatever you think, and I'm not going to take back anything I said."

C: Right, like, "When you came back, you said you were gonna prove yourself to me. That's not a two-way street. I can do whatever." [laughs]

G: Yeah. And yeah, Dean says- Sam says, "This was supposed to be a fresh start, Dean." And Dean says, "Well, this is about as fresh it gets. Now, are we going out or not?" And this is like, what my quote “analysis” of Sam and Dean's relationship up to this point from the three weeks comes from the most. Because, like, I do believe Dean wanted to do that fresh start. It's just that the- where that fresh start is keeps getting moved back and back and back the more they don't acknowledge what's happening or what happened, you know. So yeah, like, I fully believe Dean was like, "Let's do a fresh start" and now fully believe that [laughs] this is as fresh as it gets, as he says, So yeah.

C: I mean, he doesn't announce fresh start 'til like, today, though.

G: Yeah. But I mean, there is that implication already, like, last episode's final scene, right?

C: Well, last episode was, "I'm gonna prove myself to you." "I know you will." So like, fresh start is like, "I'm gonna try to move this to a new stage."

G: No, I'm talking mostly about the "We're gonna go hunting again." Like, you know, the implication of the thing. Not necessarily the words exchanged. Like, they were going to go hunting again. Specifically like, Dean being like, "Well, you're the second best hunter around" with the combination of the-

C: Well, those are also the words. [G: No no no no-] What do you mean? Yeah.

G: It's not about what specifically said there, like, the words itself, but like, the implication of it, of like, "I am not gonna wait for you to prove yourself. I'm just going to act as if you have already," and then the further they go, it becomes more clear and clear that like, that's not what's happening. It's the same deal with the knife, like, giving the knife. Like, he could have withheld that knife, you know, and could have been like, "Okay, let's wait a little bit." But he gave it immediately, and I think that's the right decision [C: Right.], but I'm sure throughout this thing, Dean also thought like, "Was that the right decision?"

C: I don't think I read "second-best hunter" the way that you did. I think I just read it as like, "I'm making a joke to diffuse the tension." I don't think I've read it as more meaningful than that.

G: No, you said too last time we talked about it, that it's supposed to inform, like, a return to normal.

C: Yeah, as in like- a return to normal as in like, yeah, return to the former brother dynamic, I suppose. But are we talking about the dynamic regarding the job or like, them as brothers right now?

G: I think them as brothers because- Yeah.

C: Okay. So I guess the second-best hunter joke is like a "Let's return to how we were as brothers" or like, "I'm attempting to do it," but-

G: It's just the job and the brother thing is completely inseparable to them. I mean, Sam tries to quit, and Dean basically goes, "Let's never see each other ever again." [C laughs] Like, it's inseparable for them. Like, Sam left for college, and to Dean, that's like, "Well, you're not a hunter anymore. Therefore, you've left the family." And the only way he can be back in Dean's life is if he's hunting with him. So like, it's not really a distinction one can make, especially Dean Winchester as the one.

C: I feel bad for Sam, and he's probably been trying to tell himself the whole time that like, "It's okay. I'm like, still trying to prove myself," blah blah blah blah. And then hearing this is like, "Well, Dean's not trying back." [G: Yeah, yeah.] They go into the museum- Oh, right, no. I think- right. My one other thing was that the sting is definitely stronger because Dean sent Sam out to prep the trunk with all the guns, and apparently, it was so that he could talk shit about Sam to Bobby [both laugh] [G: Yeah!] in the motel room. Like, that's a major asshole move.

G: Yeah. Sam was already suspecting that Dean was like, avoiding work to do something else, so is he now thinking that like, "Oh, Dean went to that bar to bitch about me."

C: To talk shit about me more, yeah! [both laugh] Yeah. Can't be a good feeling.

C: They re-enter the wax museum, and, like, they go in and take off Lincoln's hat to burn it. And Dean's like, joking around, putting the hat on. And Sam's like, "Whatever, let's just do the job." And Dean's like, "You're a killjoy, but okay." So Sam starts staring down Lincoln, and I really have no idea why he's doing this.

G: Why is he doing this? It's for suspense. This episode is ungodly short. It's the same reason why they did the car thing. It's because this episode is ungodly short. It's like, 39 minutes long [C: Huh.] with like, a 2-3 minute “Soon” section. [C: Right, that's crazy.] So this episode is pretty short.

C: So, I don't know. Maybe he suspects that, like, the wax statue itself did it. Maybe he's just admiring the details of the statue. But yeah, he's staring Lincoln down. It's suspenseful, like, their faces are very close. But then the doors slam shut and won't open, and then his breath comes out visible. So it's cold. And then- so he's pointing his gun, but then the gun flies out of his hands, and then Gandhi attacks him. [laughs] Not the statue, a separate guy.

G: Yeah. And they make it a point of showing the statue still be there, not moving. So this is a different person. This is a different- Obviously, different person. But like, I mean like, this is a different thing than the wax statue. It's not the wax statue coming alive.

C: Yeah. And like, they shoot Gandhi's movements kind of weird with the camera. Like, it's slow-mo/fast-mo, and you can't really see his face. And I was like, "I wonder who they cast for this. Like, why are they trying to hide the face so much?" [laughs] [G: Noo.] I don't- Okay, I don't think that they cast a white guy, but we'll find out during the IMDb check, I suppose. I mean, it's possible because I know that they cast a Black man to play an Indian character in "Hammer of the Gods." So like, it's possible. Anything is possible. We'll find out.

G: I think what I assumed it was was because Dean goes like- makes a comment that like, he's squirrely. So I thought they were trying to convey that [C: Oh, with the motions?] via camera movement, yeah. [C: Perhaps so.]You know what? I also just thought, like, Gandhi has a more distinctive face than Abraham Lincoln, so it could just- And also, we have more pictures of him.

C: Yeah, it's harder to find someone who looks like him properly.

G: Yeah, it's harder to emulate a face that you know, which is probably the same reason why they didn't show James Dean. But it is like- you're right. Because with Lincoln, they really do show his face. [C laughs] They really show his face.

C: Yeah. So he's attacking Sam and like, jumping on his back and shit and strangling him. And Dean rushes in-

G: Sam does a fun move where he like, backslams a wall [C: Oh, yeah!] to slam Gandhi off his back, which I thought was pretty fun.

C: Yeah, good for Sam. Dean runs in, and really does not seem to be seeing the- [G: He DGAF.] Yeah, he does not care. He thinks this is mostly funny. And Sam's being strangled, but through the strangulation, he's like, "Get the- get the glasses!" So Dean gets the glasses and burns them, and the body just immediately disappears. And as Sam's like, recovering, Dean goes, "You couldn't have been a fan of someone cool? Really? Gandhi?" Again, Sam is a loser for being a fan of Gandhi, but for reasons other than what Dean thinks are the reasons. [G laughs]

G: Yeah. So they're back at the motel, and Sam is talking about how "Isn't it just weird the way Gandhi just vanished? Like, he didn't scream or fire out?" I forget, ghosts do burn though, right? [C: They do scream and burn, yeah.] And they scream about it. And yeah. And Dean was like, "Well, I burned it, he vanished. Sorry." But yeah.

C: Why is Dean so in a hurry to leave this case?

G: I think I think it's probably just a control thing. Like, Sam's arguing for one thing, let's argue against it and go.

C: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense to me. Yeah.

G: I don't know. I'm trying to think of a situation where Dean would just be like, "Okay, I'll listen to Sam." [C laughs] He was like that in the earlier seasons, I believe. They had a more equal footing. Season 1 specifically, I think they had- but mostly because Sam and Dean back then were treated by the narrative as, like, loser hunters. Like, they don't really know what they're doing. So even if, say, Dean knows a little bit better what they're doing, not by much. Versus now, where they are treated as special little princesses of the story.

C: Yeah, even though Sam's been hunting for longer 'cause Dean was in Hell for a few months. [G: This is true, but-] Like, hunting for longer, like, in the show. Dean was hunting for longer earlier than that, but yeah.

G: Yeah. [laughs] I was gonna make that point, but whatevs. Sam says, "And also, it's like he was hungry." [both laugh] [C: "He was trying to take a bite of me."] "No, but the thing is, Gandhi, [both laughing] or the real Gandhi, he was a..." And Dean was like, "What?" and Sam just doesn't want to say it, and Dean just goes, "What? Spit it out." Sam goes, "He was a fruitarian."

C: Yeah, and see, the humor for me right now is that Sam thinks-

G: That this is a logical conclusion that a ghost will not eat him or bite him because the people was fruitarian.

C: Exactly. Most people weren't cannibals during their life. [both laugh] Ghosts change!

G: I think the question should be like, "Why would ghosts bite me?"

C: 'Cause they can't- Why would they want- It isn't a part of ghost lore that they want to bite you. That should be the question.

G: But here, the question is like, "Why is Gandhi ghost trying to bite me [C laughing] when he was fruitarian?" Like, why is Gandhi ghost trying to bite you, period?

C: Yeah, why is ghost trying to bite you, period?

G: Yeah. But the comedy to Dean is that Gandhi is fruitarian. I understand that.

C: It's just funny that he was a fruitarian. Which isn't even true. He was a fruitarian for five years, and then went back to being a vegetarian.

G: Dean keeps making fun of him for it, and goes like, "Oh, your ultimate hero is not only a short man in diapers, but he was also a fruitarian?" which-

C: Fuck off, Dean.

G: Yeah. Fuck off, Dean. But yeah. Sam is saying, like, "I don't- I don't think this is over. I don't think it's a ghost." But Dean, again, gung-ho to just leave. And Sam says, "So first you drag me into town. And now you're dragging me back out." And Dean says, "You're not steering this boat. Let's go." But Sam doesn't. And he says, "This isn't gonna work."

C: Yes! Go Sam. Go Sam forever.

G: And yeah, he says, "You and me together, I thought it could, but it can't." And Dean says, "You're the one who wanted back." And Sam says, "No, but you're the one who called me back in," which is true. [C: Yeah.] And Dean says, "Oh, we got some trust building to do, that's all." But Sam says, "Well, how long am I gonna be on double secret probation?" which is a way to put it. And he really is, I think. [C: Yeah.] And Dean says, "'Til I say so." He doesn't even deny it! Well, this part I'm like, "Sam." [laughs] Well, he says, "Look, I know what I did, what I've done, and I'm trying to climb out of that hole. I am, but you're not making it any easier." And Dean says, "Wait, I'm just supposed to let you off the hook?" And Sam says, "No, you can think whatever you want," which I love! Because Sam, for a while, for a long time, has been like, I think, so adamant on Dean forgiving him for being angry enough with him, Bobby forgiving him, Bobby thinking he didn't do anything wrong, Bobby thinking he's forgivable. And it's like, hearing Sam say, like, "You can think whatever you want." Like, it is coming from a a place of self-deprecation, because he says like, "Oh, I deserve it. Like, whatever bad thing you think of me, I deserve it." But like, the point he's making here, which he says is, "The point is, if we're gonna be a team, you and I, it has to be a two-way street." which I like, I love that kind of acceptance. Like, it's not a matter anymore of [C: Yeah, "You should forgive me" or whatever.] what you think of me.

C: It's just like, fair treatment, yeah.

G: Like, forgiveness comes in layers. Forgiveness, you can forgive a person in action but still blame them in thought. And what he's saying to Dean is, "You can blame me in thought all you want, but you can't expect me to be here, and you're acting the way you do, and I will continue to be here." It's just like, yeah. "You can think whatever you want. But don't treat me like shit."

C: Yeah. Yeah. Good boundary-setting.

G: Good boundary-setting. But also, like, for Sam, I do feel that is a character development thing, right? That, like, "I am going to ask for forgiveness, and I will hope that you forgive me. But if you don't, [laughs] there's other things to worry about." And there are other things to worry about.

C: Yeah. I feel like Sam is the one who's been saying the word "sorry" in like, all of Season 5 so far and, like, this episode, Sam doesn't say sorry, and Dean does.

G: Yeah. So Dean asked- And at this point, he's not, like, convinced or anything. He's still being, like, condescending when he replies. He says, like, "So what? Are we supposed to go back to the way it was before?" And Sam says, "No. [C exclaims] Because that was bad."

C: "We were never that way before. Before didn't work!" Go, Sam!

G: Love that! And he says, "How do you think we got here? One of the reasons I went off with Ruby was to get away from you." [C: So true.] And Dean is surprised by this. This is a revelation for him. He's like, "What?"

C: He's literally been the guy who's like, "You chose Ruby over me!" Like, "You betrayed me by going off with Ruby," but, like, he never thought that it was to get away from him. Like, he thought these were just completely unrelated things.

G: Yeah. No, I do think he thinks that. Like, I think he thinks that Ruby tricked Sam, and Sam wasn't doing anything out of his own volition. And when Sam was, like, "No, I am choosing it," he ascribed that to Sam's addiction already, [C: Right.] and Sam's, you know, all the other stuff happening. [C: Yeah.] He didn't stop to consider that like, before all that, there was a reason why he was going off with Ruby

C: But he is very blamey about like, "You chose a demon over your own brother." Like, is that something you would say when you were, like, "You were 100% just being tricked, and then later, when you made the choice, it was because of your addiction." Like, that seems like a different idea caused that sentence to happen.

G: I don't know. Like, there's a difference between, you know, like, choosing something- As you said, there's a difference between choosing someone over someone else and, like, choosing someone over someone else to get away from the second someone else. [C: Yeah, I think that is different.] So like, maybe Dean was just like, "You chose her over me" and didn't connect the dot that "to get away from me." It literally was just "You chose." [laughs] Again, Sam, Dean, and Cas-

C: Like, "You think I'm so cool and great. [fake-teary] But you had the audacity to think Ruby was cooler and greater!"

G: Literally. Like, all of these characters are so bad at self-reflection. Like, so so bad. [C: Mm.] But yeah. And Sam says, "It made me feel strong. Like I wasn't your kid brother." Agh. I love the term "kid brother" so much when Sam says it. Yeah. And Dean says, "Are you saying this is my fault?" And again, this is delivered condescendingly. Like, after this, I had no idea where the episode was gonna go with Sam and Dean. Or, I mean, you know, I had an idea, but I didn't really know the specifics of how they were gonna resolve it, 'cause Dean still feels incredibly cagey about everything. Sam says, "No, it's my fault. All I'm saying is that if we're gonna do this, we have to do it different. We can't just fall into the same rut." [C: So proud of him!] Ough! And then they're going to. And they're going to, for the rest of time immemorial. [C: You're right. Well, let's not think about that.[ Well, I mean, they're not going to. It's not the same- It's not the same problem over and over again. It's different problems. [laughs] But it's problems nonetheless! This is the part where there seems to be something changing with Dean. 'Cause when he says, "What?" I think that was the first time he was, like, actually taken him back by something Sam was saying with the, you know, like, "I went off through Ruby to get away from you." But yeah, he asks, "What do you want me to do?" And Sam says, "You're gonna have to let me grow up, for starters." But this gets disrupted because Dean's phone rings, and then we are made aware that somebody else has died or something weird has happened yet again. [C: Yup.] So this is- You know, Supernatural really is such a format show. Like, it really is a "I don't want to talk about it, Sammy. I don't want to talk about it, Sammy." And then Sammy says something, [laughs] and it's like, "Okay, let's talk about it at the end of the episode." And I love that for Supernatural. I love to be taken on an experience where Dean doesn't want to talk and then does. [C laughs]

C: Yeah, well, so we're back at the police department, and something weird has happened. So they go and interview these two teen girls. And they're not being that clear about what happened, but somebody who uses she/her pronouns took their friend Danielle. And Sam's like, "It's okay. Just tell us. Who took your friend?" And one of the girls goes, "It was... Paris Hilton." And they go on to talking about how, like, she looked really good and skinny [G laughs] or whatever, which, I don't know. I don't know, man. I guess the idea is because they're like, really big fans, so they would be focused on these things in addition to their friend getting kidnapped, but I'm not sure about that. It just feels like a "teenage girls are dumb" sort of thing that they're doing. Sam and Dean are like, "Oh, like, we have to talk in private," and they walk one step away [both laugh] and whisper so loudly.

G: So true. You know, like, I fully thought, because of the camera angle as well in this scene, I fully thought that the sheriff was gonna, like, pop up behind them or something, and be like, "What are you talking about?" Or like, somebody at some point doing that. Because again, they're like, one step away from the people they were just talking to. [both laugh] They're still pretty much inside the room. [C: They're in the doorway.] And like, they're talking so loudly, the camera angle is making space for someone to pop- I don't know. This is just like that scene where they were fighting, and they were like, "Let's step out for a bit." [C laughs] And then everybody, including Ellen, can hear their fight.

C: Yeah, this is just like when they were talking in the doorway to Bobby's hospital room about him, [G laughs] and he said, "I can hear you." [laughing] Haven't they learned by now?But the whispered conversation is that Paris Hilton is not dead, so it cannot be a ghost, so they missed something. So Sam's in scrubs now at the morgue, and I do think it's odd that after that conversation, Sam is still being sent out solo to do, like, the icky work. He's there, and he's looking at the body of the guy who died by the car. And he, like, cuts open his chest, and then he reaches in, and somehow, despite the fact that there's like, other shit in there that he was also feeling, he was able to take out two small round objects from inside. And he is surprised by this. And when he comes back out, he explains that there was a lot more blood loss than expected from the other bodies, like something was, like, drinking their blood. And they all had these seed pods inside of their stomachs, at which I wrote, 'OMG, mpreg episode?" [G: Noo!] But we don't really learn what happens with the seeds. Like, do the trees grow out of the bodies, I suppose, is what we're supposed to- Can trees grow when they're implanted inside of someone's chest and don't have access to sunlight?

G: I mean, this is a magical seed.

C: I guess so. But doesn't he just say, it's like, [G: A normal-ass seed?] from a tree that's dead. Yeah, like, a regular tree. It just is extinct now. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's just a ritual thing.

G: I mean, it's a seed he has never seen before!

C: Yeah, it's a seed he's never seen before! And Dean goes, "Wow! Just when I thought you couldn't get any geekier." Sam does some research, and he's somehow able to find out the species that these seeds are, [G: How even?] despite the fact that they were covered in blood inside of a man's body, [G laughs] and when he washed them off, I'm sure they didn't look that similar. And also, like, they didn't have, like, reverse image search. Even if they did, I don't think it would've worked that well! But yeah, I guess he's just really good at research?

G: Yeah. He's research boy. [C: Yeah.] [laughs] Gun boy and research boy. So true!

C: Yeah. The hunting brothers. They are from a forest in the Balkans, which was chopped down 30 years ago, and they thought that the forest was guarded by a pagan god named Leshi who could be appeased only with blood from his worshipers, and, like, drink all their blood, and then put the seeds in their stomach. And I guess he just turns into different people by touching things that they owned and can be killed with an iron axe chopping off his head.

G: They go to the Wax Museum. They open, like, the back door, or whatever. So they open this area, and it's like, a garden scene.

C: Also, Sam whistles to get Dean to come over to him, which I think is so fun. [G: That is fun.] It's like, a very cute whistle.

G: So yeah, they see the girl, and she’s tied up. Sam checks her pulse, and she's still alive, barely, and Dean is holding an axe. And the axe, like, flies out of his hands. And yeah. Paris Hilton is there.

C: Hell yeah. She looks like she's having a lot of fun. I hope she had fun on set.

G: Yeah. She knocks Sam out and then knocks Dean out with, like, a stomping on his face with her shoes. [C: Yeah.] And then, yeah. They wake up tied up, both of them to trees. But like, I just wanna say, I don't know anything about Paris Hilton other than she's Paris Hilton. [C: Yeah, nor I.] I also don't think I know her voice. And the whole time she was speaking, I was like, "Is that really her voice?" [laughs]

C: I think it probably is.

G: I mean, it is, it is. It's just me being like, "Huh! I did not expect her to sound like that." You know, 'cause it's a face you've seen so many times, but the voice is always new when you hear it. But yeah. This is Paris Hilton. How did they get this collab?

C: I mean, she could just be a Supernatural fan.

G: Is that true? Can we look that up?

C: Okay, "Paris Hilton." Oh, it says Jared Padalecki co-starred in the movie House of Wax with her, [G: Ohh.] so they probably did the wax museum and the Paris Hilton thing, like, for fun because of that.

G: That's why Dean says, "I haven't even seen House of Wax."

C: Okay, it says there was an interview with Access Hollywood where she said she was a big fan of the show and was excited to be part of it.

G: Do you think she's just saying that, or was she really a big fan of this show? [C: I don't know. The other thing in the article is that-] I can't believe people are fans of Supernatural. Like, don't do that.

C: Yeah, I mean, many people are. [G: Apparently.] I feel like I talk to a fan of Supernatural every week on Zoom.

G: There's this really fun thing they do with her where she is holding the knife, and she's going over it with her nails, and it's sending out sparks. I thought that was really fun.

C: I mean, it made it so hard to watch because it sounded really bad, [G: Yeah.] but it was fun.

G: Yeah, I thought it was fun. Paris Hilton is saying like, "Oh, I've been eating a lot of fast food lately, so it's nice to do the ritual right. Prepare a nice slow meal for a change," which is pretty fun. Dean says, "I guess these days, nobody gives a flying crap about some backwoods forest god, huh?" And she goes, "No. Not since they cut down my forest and built a Yugo plant," which I do think is interesting. What are the concepts being talked about here? It's that one, and then also, like, the concept of, like, the United States being- having no God? [laughs] [C: Yeah.] Like, their God is celebrities and whatever. [C laughs] I mean, isn't there- there's that one Tweet or whatever that was like, "You want to insult the British, you in theory can just insult the Queen. But if you want to insult, like, Americans, you have to insult McDonald's or whatever." [C laughing]

C: This is true.

G: What else? I don't know, it's just about worship of gods and idolatry and celebrities, and it is, I suppose, fun that it's Paris Hilton they're making do this speech: because that is celebrity 101.

C: Yeah, she's the "famous for being famous" person.

G: Eventually, Paris Hilton now wants to kill Dean. [C: Yeah.] Except she can't unless she transforms into someone that Dean idolizes. And so Dean's like, "Oh, I don't even idolize you. I've not seen House of Wax." But she goes, "No, but I know who you really idolize. Your daddy. Am I right?" And the axe apparently belonged to John, so she can just go touch the axe and turn into JDM and then drink Dean's blood. [C: Slay.] So she goes to reach for it. Dean gets out of his binding and then goes to attack her, except she gets the upper hand. And then Sam also gets out of his thing, and then he gets the axe and then eventually axes once, twice, three times, until the head rolls over. And his face is super duper duper bloody, which is fun.

C: Soo bloody. It was hot.

G: So fun! And, you know, Sam gets a word in with Dean because he's like, "Dude. You just got whaled on with Paris Hilton" [C: Fuck yeah.] while laughing. And it is fun to see him laugh with all that blood in his face. [C: Yeah!] Like, agh! So true.

C: Love that guy. Yeah, I don't- Is the "You have no god. You just worship celebrities instead." is that at all supposed to be related to God being dead in 5.03? Or is it just doing its own thing?

G: I think it's just doing its own thing, although you can relate it for sure.

C: Yeah, yeah. I feel like as its own thing, it's kind of silly. But oh, well. It is Supernatural.

C: We return to the motel. Dean is on the phone with the sheriff, and Danielle's gonna be okay, like, the teen girl. [laughs] The sheriff is putting out an APB on Paris Hilton. They are heading out to the Impala. Dean says, "I was thinking about what you said yesterday about me keeping too tight of a leash on you." And Sam doesn't say anything. He just looks. He just waits. And Dean goes like, "Maybe you're right. I'm not exactly Mister Innocent in this whole mess either, you know? I did break the first seal." [G: Aww.] And Sam says, "You didn't know." [G: "You didn't either!"] And Dean said, "Well, neither did you." [G: Aww!] And that was a really nice moment because- yeah. 'Cause it's like, Supernatural and I will never agree on the demon blood thing, so I've given up on that. But [G: - the Lilith thing, yeah.] the Lilith thing, the breaking the first seal, like, the level of blame accordant, the "Sam didn't know," like, I'm glad that we're finally getting to this properly, because all the previous episodes it's just "Sam did this, and that was evil, and Sam is evil." So yeah, I'm really glad that they're at this place where, like, I guess Sam can maybe sort of start trying to forgive himself through viewing it as similar to the Dean breaking the first sale thing. [G: Yeah.] And like, Dean can also like- Yeah. Like, just both of them are forgiving themselves and each other through each other, and that's nice! And it's nice that they're just- yeah, reminding us of this.

G: Yeah. I am thinking about how like, to Dean, at least there is a positive to come out of it. I mean, like, killing Lilith is a positive thing. The side effect of the Apocalypse starting is negative, and also the drinking demon blood to get there is negative. That's Dean's calculation [laughing] To Dean, it's all just negative, I believe.

C: Yeah. He did the starting the Apocalypse through starting to torture people, yeah.

G: Yeah, because he was tortured for a long time. Like, yeah. Pretty horrible, that one!

C: Yeah. 'Cause Dean says, "I'm not saying demon blood was a great way to go, but you did kill Lilith. Who'd have thought killing Lilith would have been a bad thing?" [G: Yeah.] So he's like, also acknowledging that they all had the same goal. And then he says, "The point is, I was so worried about watching your every move that I didn't see what it was actually doing to you." And for that, is he talking about recently, or just like, their whole lives?

G: No, I mean- Ah! This line. I'm not actually sure.

C: Because Sam was saying, "It never worked in the past."

G: I think it could be a more recent thing.

C: I'm more on the long term side because I think Dean might be responding to Sam saying, like, "The past patterns we were in didn't work and like, made me upset."

G: Yeah. This could be conceived that way. Like, you can think of it that way, whichever way. [C: Yeah, yeah.] So it's a reasonable point, whichever.

C: Yeah. So it's like, "Part of my overprotectiveness and control is what led you to, like, go off with Ruby, and I acknowledge that." Yeah. Good for Dean for getting to this place, and I hope that I hope that this does for Sam what Sam wants, like, for emotional closure.

G: I want to bring up something. [C: Mm-hm.] You asked earlier, like, "Why is it that Sam is still the one who looked at the coroner's?" It's because Dean asked him what he wants to do, right?

C: Oh, is that what happened?

G: Like, Sam says like, "Oh, we missed something." And Dean goes, "What do you want to do?" Which, like, at that point in the episode, that was a concession. Or not concession. That was a sign of like, oh, Dean's taking it to heart because he asks Sam, like, "What's your game plan?" So the reason why it was Sam who is in the coroner's office probably was because he asked to be there.

C: But what was Dean doing?

G: I don't know. Probably doing research, whatever the fuck.

C: Was he?

G: Yeah. I mean, I think part of the charm of this episode is that Sam is the one who figures the case out, so-

C: Mm-hm, yeah. They didn't get a call from Bobby being like, "Bobby says it's a Leshi."

G: Yeah. It is vital that Sam is the one doing the research, I feel. Or like, doing the figuring things out, too, like, narrative-wise.

C: Yeah, okay, I get that. So after Dean says that, he pauses and he goes, "So for that, I'm sorry." And Sam says, "Thanks." They discuss a bit. They come to, like, the same conclusion that they come to at the end of every episode, [G: Yeah.] so [laughing] I didn't even know why it was a new conclusion.

G: Every end of the episode, they will just say things like, "We just need to do our own thing."

C: Yeah, "We just need to survive, we just need to hunt, we just need to go down fighting." Like, you said that, like, day one, bros.

G: Yeah, but this time, Sam is saying it instead of Dean. So that's the difference.

C: Yeah. So Dean asks, "So where do we go from here?" Which, you're right, the Dean asking questions is a step in the right direction. Like, "I will listen to you." And Sam says that "We got one shot at surviving this. Maybe I'm on deck for the devil, maybe same with you and Michael. Maybe there's no changing that. But we can stop wringing our hands over it. We just gotta grab onto whatever's in front of us, kick its ass, and go down fighting." Dean kindly does not say, "I said that, like, three weeks ago, and also four weeks ago, and also five weeks ago!" [laughs] He just goes, "I could get on board with that." And Sam says, "Okay, but we're gonna have to do it on the same level," and Dean goes, "You got it!" which is nice.And finally, they're about to like, get into the car. But then Dean goes, "Hey. You wanna drive?" [G: Agh!] Soo true. It's so corny.

G: I started crying. [C: Congrats.] I started crying. This whole, like, "Do you wanna take the car? Do you wanna drive?" thing that Dean does sometimes, it really does get to me. Like, it matters to me! And, like, I kept on telling myself when this scene was happening and I was crying, like, full-on tears flowing down my face, I was like, "But it does matter! Like, it does matter!" [laughs] Like, I was trying to convince myself that it does matter. But the thing is, it does matter. [C: Yeah.] I think it matters to Dean, and it matters to Sam. It matters to me, so.

C: Yeah, I mean, the writers put it in because it matters. I think it is a little corny sometimes, but I don't care.

G: It's corny as fuck, but we are in the CW's Supernatural, so it's fine.

C: Indeed we are. And yeah, [G: We drive.] Sam asks, "You sure?" and Dean says, "I could use a nap." And they drive.

G: Yeah. And also, like, you know, they drive, and also there's a scene- what's that? There's a "Soon" section. [C: There's a "Next time on."] Yeah, which I don't really ever get a lot of.

C: Yeah, I think we got like one before this.

G: I think it's because this episode is so short, like, honestly. [C laughs]

C: Maybe so. Yeah, we see bits from "Changing Channels" and a bit from-

G: "99 Problems," I think.

C: Yeah, probably. And a bit from- which one's the episode with the two Asian sex workers?

G: Ah, I forgot! There's also the one with the devil Antichrist.

C: Oh, yeah! Who turns Cas into an action figure. [G: Action figure, yeah.] 'Cause Cas wants to murder that child! [both] Just like Aziraphale!

G: Yeah, it's feminist. It's literally feminist. [both laughing] Do I explain that joke or what?

C: In the Good Omens podcast, in our Rubbish and Probably a Podcast- everyone listen now!- Q&A, someone asked about female Aziraphale and Crowley, how it would have changed, and I said, "Would it be feminist that female Aziraphale wants to kill Adam because she's not being motherly?" [laughs] And it is.

G: It literally is. [laughs] Oh, anyway! What did we think about this episode? It was bad when it's bad and it was fun and it was good when it's good.

C: Yeah. I think the Sam and Dean stuff was excellent, and the rest of the plot was- well, sometimes it was fun. Sometimes.

G: Best Line/Worst Line. What's your best side?

C: Best line is, "We were never that way before before. Before didn't work. How do you think we got here?" Let's go!

G: I mean, my best line is "You want to drive?" honestly, like, it got to me. It got to me. What's your worst line? I think-

C: I think... there's a lot of options. [G: Yeah, there's truly a lot.] When Dean's like, lying about being an agent in the bar [G: Yeah.], that's quite bad. [G: That's pretty bad.] The "She's not making any sense in Spanish, either!" was bad.

G: I don't like that Dean calls, like, "Great for a Smurf." I don't like that line. Very rude. [C: Very rude.] Spreadsheets! Spread those sheets.

C: Alright, we've got points happening. Misogyny, the lying in the bar thing, quite bad.

G: Definitely. I think that's a 2.

C: Yeah, I think that is probably a 2. Racism, okay. The jokes in the episode are, "It's funny that someone can't speak English and can only speak Spanish," "it's funny that Mahatma Gandhi wore clothing that is not, like, Western clothing, and was short [G: Yeah.] and was a fruitarian," and then, like, "the sheriff is dumb" and "wax museums are dumb." So like, 50% of the jokes in this episode are built off of being racist. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] So yeah, I think I think that could take us to 4 territory.

G: Yeah, I agree. It's I think it's a 4. Homophobia, there's none in this episode, I believe.

C: Yeah, I don't think so.

G: So what's our IMDb ratings? What's our guesses? IMDb guesses. We need to specify that every time.

C: I don't know. I think it's like, pretty good, but I don't know if people would like it. [G: Mm.] I'm just gonna guess same as 5.03. 8.5?

G: I was gonna guess 8.4. Okay, let's see. [C: Let's see.] Oh my god! It's a 7.9.

C: Oh, that's low.

G: People don't like this one.

C: Did they think the plot was, like, silly or something? I guess there's also the fact that it follows 5.04, so it's like, why are we doing a case episode right now? Like, that's weird?

G: [laughs] "You can't tell me Paris Hilton is awesome for doing this." Wait, no no no.

C: Isn't awesome, or- they meant "isn't awesome"? Yeah, they think she's cool.

G: They think she's cool. And it is cool, I think, that she did this.

C: Yeah, the making fun of herself performance. She does do a pretty good job acting.

G: This one says, "There was some social commentary here, [C laughs] some scenes were funny, the brother tension was great and they made some progress. Also yes Dean you too started the apocalypse, stop blaming Sam." [C: Real.] I think both of them are probably fine. Like, it's all the angels' fault honestly, if we're being so for real right now.

C: Yeah, it's the angels' fault and also, like, the demons' fault.

G: Yeah, I think because Sam and Dean are, like, important. And they are. But they're also just pawns. And I feel like they go back and forth, especially Dean, goes back and forth between "I'm a pawn" and "I'm so important! No one's gonna hurt me because I'm important." And it's like, both of those things are true. You're a very important sword is what you are.

C: [laughing] One of these says, “How sad that even Hungry Hungry Gandhi knew that Sam's vulnerable spot was his throat. One of these days, the writers are going to have to address why every single evil thing the boys fight goes for Sam's throat.” [G laughing] Is this a pattern? I think you may just be sexually attracted to Sam Winchester. [G laughing]

G: This one says, “I really do not understand how this clunker got made in season 5. It's probably the worst episode of the entire series and it has nothing good to say about it. The premise is silly and yet unfunny. [C: What about Sam?] The brotherly melodrama is forced. It's not scary. And Hilton didn't deserve to be on the show.”

C: What?? Okay, people do hate women.

G: This one says, “It didn't end great in my opinion. What possessed the writers to write such speech for Sam? I have tried so hard to find sympathy for Sam. [C: Booo!] So according to Sam (because that was what he was saying between the lines) everything is Deans fault. [C: He literally said it's not Dean's fault!] Sam went to Ruby, because of Dean. He drank demon blood because of Dean. Then with the same breath he says to Dean that his big brother needs to let him grow up. It was truly ridiculous. [C: Boo!] Basically Dean sacrificed himself to save Sam, he died...in the 4 months he was gone, Sam went and became demon blood addict. [C: Boo!] Part of being adult is also taking responsibility for your own actions and not blame your big brother for every single thing you do. Will Sam ever grow up and accept the responsibility for his own actions?”

C: He literally has been over-accepting responsibilities for his actions, like, the entire rest of Season 5 so far! He's been apologizing. He's been saying it's his fault. He said it was his fault, like, explicitly in this episode, too! Wow!

G: That's crazy that this is a perspective that people can have. [C: Yeah.] Well, I mean, the thing is like, is it entirely Dean's fault? Everything? Obviously not. But like, you cannot the deny the reasons for it.

C: Yeah, and Sam doesn't think that- Yeah, that he had a factor.

G: And like, Sam exclusively says that like, [C: “It's my fault!”] Dean asks, "It's my fault?" and Sam goes, “No, it's mine.”

C: Yeah, like, "It's my fault. We just- But in order to avoid a similar situation, we should like, change our dynamic."

G: "Let's not put ourselves in such situations."

C: Yeah, that is, like, a healthy, helpful thing to say. Wow.

G: This is growing up. [C: Yeah!] Like, Sam is accepting- Sam kept on saying, like, he's punishing himself more than Dean will ever punish him! Like, "It's my fault," he keeps on saying. [C: Yeah.] I don't know. Whatever

C: Whatever.

G: Well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 5, Episode 6: "I Believe the Children Are Our Future." Oh, it's immediately the next one! Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.

C: Wait, which one is "I Believe the Children Are Our Future"?

G: The kid who turns Cas into a toy.

C: Oh, that's- that's so funny. Okay. [laughs] Well, follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.

G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!

[guitar music]

#transcript

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