#Ahsoka was deeply flawed

[gch1995]

I’ve contemplated a lot about why Luke was the sort of person that Anakin felt inspired enough to turn his back on Sidious and the dark side for, while Padme, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka weren’t.

While Anakin does become a hypocrite who no one was obligated to forgive after he turned dark, regardless of his tragic circumstances and compromised agency, I think Luke was the one who finally inspired him to turn back because, in spite of as “above it all” as Obi-Wan, Padme, and even Ahsoka wanted to believe they were, they still had many of the same issues Anakin developed of feeling pressured to be people pleasers to corrupt authority figures, expectations, and rules that they knew were wrong out of fear of the unknown under compromised agency, moral hypocrisy, pride, manipulative tactics, selfishness, and/or an exceedingly vengeful side in their anger that they were not willing to pull back on when they dueled him or other enemies that piss him off.

Padme, Obi-Wan, and Ahsoka loved Anakin, but they were also prideful, self-centered, and terrified people who were too afraid to admit that their methods flawed, too afraid to take a stand against the standards of these broken systems they were born into, too afraid to admit they were wrong, too afraid to take risks to do better, and too afraid to admit that they weren’t as “above it all” as they pretended to be.

Luke Skywalker being Anakin’s son is definitely one of the influencing factors that inspires him to turn back to the light. However, it’s also because Luke is self-accepting of his bad decisions, flaws, and mistakes. He’s aware that the old Jedi Order was deeply flawed, hypocritical, and misguided, in spite of their good intentions. He’s unwilling to stoop to the same level as his enemies. He won’t let himself get carried away with baiting his father into a fight when he gets angry, and start making justifications of how he’s “right” just because he has good intentions, just because he was fucked with first, just because he’s not a Sith, or just because it’s “too dangerous” to take a risk to be honest, kind, and offer one of his enemies (his father) a better opportunity when he sees that he really is also a victim of Sidious who is still struggling against his darker instincts and searching for freedom and love from family. He refuses to enable Anakin’s slave mentality and ultimately refuses to let his father believe that “Anakin Skywalker is dead.”

This isn’t saying that Anakin is an innocent, that Luke was obligated to forgive him, or that his victims didn’t have valid reasons to fear him and resent him. Of course, they did. The point is that in those little moments where he tries to reach out to Ahsoka, Padme, and Obi-Wan about being unhappy with the Jedi and keeping secrets of his marriage before going dark, backs off, says “Don’t make me destroy you,” or lets them go, they all had an opportunity to refuse to further perpetuate the cycle of abuse by acting in anger and vengeance. They could have refused to encourage his sense of compromised agency. They could have broken the cycle of system sting abuse, crime, and oppression with Anakin in those instances by being the bigger person.

Instead Padme and Obi-Wan encouraged him to continue to stay with the Jedi and/or keep his marriage secret when they knew their systems were corrupt, and knew he was becoming increasingly emotionally/mentally unstable and unhappy in ways that made him a danger to himself and those around him out of fear of the unknown by pretending that he would just get better if they told him he would when he tried to say otherwise.

Instead, Ahsoka ended up declaring that she’d “avenge her master” when he refused to join her right away and told her “Anakin Skywalker is dead because he destroyed him.”

Instead, Obi-Wan egged him on into a duel on Mustafar by using Padme as bait, and refused to back off after getting him to let go of Padme from his reckless blind rage/paranoia force choke before killing her when he thought she brought Obi-Wan to kill him and even got him to a point where he could tell Obi-Wan “Don’t make me kill you.” When Anakin cornered him again 10 years later for revenge that he clearly didn’t want as much as he had convinced himself he did because he still cared about Obi-Wan deep down, tells Obi-Wan “I destroyed Anakin Skywalker, not you,” and even gives Obi-Wan a chance to run away, Obi-Wan allows Anakin to continue to believe that Anakin is dead, convinces himself that he is, and he runs away to compartmentalize his own guilt over how he mistreated Anakin.

Instead, another ten years later, Obi-Wan more or less encourages Anakin/Vader to kill him by just standing there after confronting him in A New Hope, and saying “I’ll become more powerful than you can ever imagine.”

So the reason as to why Anakin can’t be inspired to atone or do better by Ahsoka, Padme, or Obi-Wan isn’t just because he’s a deeply flawed person. It’s because they are too, they live in denial of it, and let him live in denial of it, too.

#Padme Amidala was deeply flawed #Anakin was deeply flawed #Ahsoka was deeply flawed #obi wan was deeply flawed #and they all lived in denial of just how deeply broken and flawed they all were and kept encouraging Anakin to pretend like he was okay #sacrificing his better instincts and happiness to try to conform to these broken systems that they all knew were messed up out of fear #until he finally stopped trying to fight back and became a serious problem for their well-being out of fear of these corrupt authorities too #when he couldn’t get anyone to listen when he DID try to reach out for emotional support and escape to fight back #like in spite of telling them that ‘Anakin Skywalker is dead’ are obi-wan Ahsoka and Luke willing to let him believe that or not? #when he tells obi-wan and Luke ‘don’t make me destroy you’ hesitated to kill them or gives them a chance to reason with him or walk away #are they going to run away act defensively or stoop to his level and try to kill him when he’s hesitating and being vulnerable? #when he gives obi wan ahsoka and Luke a chance to back off in their duels as vader are they going to fight run away or try to reason? #when he tells Ahsoka revenge is not the Jedi way is she going to agree that vengeance is bad or stoop to his level? #it’s because Anakin is desperately looking for someone who is good and self-aware enough to realize that both sides are messed up #and he can feel safe just being the best version of himself rather than throwing away his moral integrity and sense of self to conform #it’s like he’s testing people he cares about to see if they will encourage him to break the cycle of toxicity in the galaxy #to realize that both the old Jedi/Republic and Sith/Empire were deeply fucked up governments and institutions #or continue to enable and perpetuate it themselves #to not stoop to his level and enable or perpetuate terrible behaviors choices or crimes ‘for good’ fear of the unknown or revenge #to these broken systems that enable and perpetuate systematic abuse of power crime and vengeance ‘for the greater good’ out of fear #pt jedi critical #anti jedi apologists #anakin skywalker #darth vader #luke skywalker #Luke was the only one who could inspire Anakin to redeem himself because he was the only one who didn’t get caught up in the cycle himself #and the only one who refused to let his father believe that ‘Anakin was dead’

[communistkenobi]

the individual intentions of the writers feels kind of secondary when talking about how reactionary the mandalorian has become, but if you wanted to be extremely generous about what’s going on, I think that the very simple and boring answer is that there is no financial incentive to care about what happens in the show anymore. Disney lost over a billion dollars on Disney+ last year, despite the wild success of the mandalorian and other D+ shows. I’m assuming the primary way they make money is off of mando and baby yoda merchandise - this would explain why the showrunners reunited both of them before the first episode of the third season even aired. I don’t think it’s an exaggeration to say that the mandalorian now exists primarily to sell the mandalorian merchandise. it has become an advertisement for itself.

and this would explain a lot! It explains why virtually all of the narrative threads from the previous two seasons have either been dropped or quickly resolved. It explains the exponential increase in nauseating Star Wars references like “Han shot first” “it’s a trap” yoda doing backflips etc. It explains why Din has become something of a zombie, going through the motions without any particular motivation beyond whatever deranged escapade he and Bo-Katan get up to on a given week. There’s no point to caring because the only real pressure is getting eyes on the screen and selling more baby yoda stickers. This is why we went from an Ahsoka cameo in season 2 (an obvious ploy to launch another show but still somewhat reasonable for the story) to having Lizzo and Jack Black in season 3 (literally no narrative reason at all). Those celebrities are really popular and their inclusion in the show produces media headlines that combine their names with the mandalorian, optimising search engine results and presenting the opportunity to sell merchandise to Jack Black and Lizzo fans, even if they aren’t Star Wars fans.

but the shape of this not-caring takes on a particular political form in the show - its lack of care for politics doesn’t equally produce progressive and reactionary political conflict, it’s only reactionary. And one of the reasons for this is because I think a lot of pre-existing Star Wars canon, which this show is leaning more and more heavily on, is so politically fraught that using it without thinking about it produces reactionary narratives. I think this is a large reason why 3x03 was so deeply disturbing politically, because it was all set-up for the arrival of the First Order in the Sequel Trilogy. The show doesn’t seem to take any specific perspective on this aside from telling the audience that its all very ominous, but it’s only ominous because the First Order are established as the villains of the Sequels, not because the rise of fascism in a fictional world is a specific horror that Favreau wants to explore, and the reasons for its rise are extremely lazy, boiling down to “the government is too wrapped up in bureaucratic processes to care and too forgiving of the empire to notice.”

and two I think that in general, positioning your story in opposition to politics - not a specific set of political beliefs, just “politics” as a whole - also produces de facto reactionary narratives. the show is not espousing any positive beliefs about what an ideal world may look like, nor is it precise in its criticisms about what it believes to be the flaws that currently exist in the present day world. It’s just against bureaucracy in general, democracy in general, technology in general. and the show abdicates responsibility for taking a position on why it thinks any of these things are bad. Din dismissively scoffs “politics” in 3x06, perhaps the laziest possible admission that the show is not interested in exploring anything it considers political, and aims to position the characters as being outside of politics. but that itself is a reactionary position, to assume that presenting a “direct democracy” as an overly-decadent, hyper-tolerant society who is too scared to give cops guns but will arm citizens if their cultural “feelings” allow them to carry firearms as “not political.” Again to be way too overly generous, perhaps Favreau is attempting to wave in the general direction of current society and say wow doesn’t this suck! too much democracy produced trump, too much technology produced ipad babies, too much bureaucracy produced complicated tax forms. That’s still stupid and wrong but it’s at least not an openly fascist position. but when you don’t confront those things as political and just say “they suck” in a way that you believe to be outside of politics, the perspective you take is that of a reactionary. a refusal to confront what you consider political is itself a political position, one where you intentionally shrink your imagination of politics to, like, government employees who work at the government building, and everything outside of it is just “natural” society - or, in this case, deeply unnatural, perverted by politics. the only apparent solution for the political conflicts in the show is to scale back “the politics” that are preventing natural society from flourishing. That’s fucking reactionary! and like sorry to pull this card but the whole “I’m above politics” schtick has a pretty extensive history of appearing in fascist slogans, from Mussolini to fucking Alex Jones, a rallying cry that these people eternally get behind - “We’re above the Left-Right divide.” positioning yourself as above politics is itself a political act, one that has a lot of baggage that, by virtue of positioning yourself as being too good for politics, you will not engage with.

so like I don’t know if Favreau is “really” a reactionary. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter because his current cultural output is deeply reactionary. but I don’t think any of this is done with intentional malice. I think when you turn art into a purely financial instrument you produce art that is fascist by default, because its only goal is to concentrate financial and political power for the ruling class by appealing to “common man” interests like. fucking Star Wars!!!!!!

#mando.txt #sw.txt #mando spoilers #mando meta

[illuminatedquill]

Ahsoka Tano & Sabine Wren (A Quick Analysis)

Grow Beyond

"The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters." - Master Yoda, The Last Jedi

I've been thinking about this quote a lot regarding these two.

Ahsoka Tano and Sabine Wren; Master and Apprentice. Heirs to the disaster lineage of Jedi (and Sith) stretching all the way back to Yoda himself. The above quote occurs in the scene when Master Yoda is chastising Luke for wallowing in his failure and allowing it to obstruct his judgment. Pass on what you have learned, he points out. Strength, yes, but also failure.

So, what does this mean for Ahsoka and Sabine? How does Ahsoka help Sabine to grow beyond herself? What, specifically, does Ahsoka have to offer Sabine as a Master in terms of successes and failures?

Let's look at Sabine's character first. She was already a formidable warrior, courtesy of her Mandalorian upbringing and the unique advantages her beskar armor bring to any battle. Sabine is loyal to a fault; fiercely devoted to those she cares about. She's fast on her feet and clever with gadgets and tech (as a reminder, she's considered to be a child prodigy). And something I feel that is overlooked, she is compassionate - it's not overt as Ezra's compassion is, which he extends to strangers, but we see it expressed time and again in her actions with loved ones.

The flip side of Sabine's character runs similar to how Anakin Skywalker was: she's hot-headed, reckless, prone to fits of impulsive anger. And she loves deeply but, like every other Mandalorian in existence, Sabine is unable to express it in a healthy manner (although that is mitigated by the Ghost crew's influence on her during Rebels). Sabine's emotions, as we see throughout Rebels and later in Ahsoka, are somewhat of a mystery - possibly even to herself. It takes moments of extreme duress to reveal what she's feeling: her training with Kanan while mastering the Darksaber, for one instance.

And, of course, this infamous moment from Ahsoka:

The difference between these two moments, however, is that Sabine does not self-reflect afterwards in Ahsoka. In Rebels, she has Kanan to offer her guidance and counsel as to why she struggles with the Darksaber.

This is, arguably, Sabine's defining flaw: her inability to really know and understand herself on a deeper level. As a result, her emotions continue to rule over her actions and leads to the terrible consequences that follow.

Which is where Ahsoka comes in. Ahsoka Tano is no stranger to anger and the extremes to which emotions, when unchecked, can carry us. As the survivor of two galactic civil wars, she understands this better than anyone else alive. And, most importantly, she is the padawan of Anakin Skywalker; a fact that weighs heavily on her and, ultimately, affects her relationship with Sabine for the worse.

During her vision quest in Ahsoka 1x05, Ahsoka re-experiences the Clone Wars alongside her master, Anakin. There she asks him an important question, reflecting the core of her struggle with teaching Sabine:

Ahsoka: Is this all I have to teach my own padawan someday? How to fight?

Anakin, at the time, was teaching Ahsoka how to be a warrior - a timely lesson that served her well considering everything that happened afterwards. The problem for Ahsoka is this: that life is all she knows. She never really stopped fighting. She has spent most of her life fighting in a war and even when the Empire was finally defeated, Ahsoka continued to keep finding new battles to fight during a time of peace.

For whatever reason she decided to take on Sabine as an apprentice, Ahsoka must have struggled with this. Yes, she can teach Sabine discipline, lightsaber forms, and basic Force mastery but, outside of that, what else does she have to offer? How does she help Sabine to grow beyond her?

Passing on her failures. How has Ahsoka failed, what she learned from it, and how she can help Sabine to not make the same mistakes.

Returning to Ahsoka 1x05 again, Anakin has this important conversation with Ahsoka about their legacies as Jedi:

Anakin: You're a warrior now. As I trained you to be. Ahsoka: Is that all? Anakin: Ahsoka, within you will be everything I am. All the knowledge I possess. Just as I inherited knowledge from my master and he from his. You're part of a legacy. Ahsoka: But my part of that legacy is one of death - and war. Anakin: But you're more than that. Because I'm more than that.

Ahsoka is not committed fully to her training Sabine; she's afraid that she'll pass on the failures of her master, also inherent within her, to her padawan. But, as Yoda points out to Luke so many years later, that's exactly what she needs to do. She sees herself as only offering a legacy of death and war to Sabine who has already seen her fair share of such.

But Anakin reminds her that she is more than that, just as he was. Those mistakes, that legacy - despite the darkness inherent within it - is important to pass on. Depriving Sabine of all that knowledge runs against what a Master should do, despite their reservations about what that knowledge could give way to - but that's the problem with Ahsoka prior to her reunion with Anakin in the World Between Worlds. She's afraid.

And Sabine pays the price for that fear. It makes her vulnerable to her own emotions and she makes the choice to doom the galaxy in exchange for Ezra's safety.

How do these fears become manifest in these two women? What causes them to become vulnerable to them?

Isolation. Detachment from others. That is, in my opinion, easy steps towards the Dark Side. For a long time, Ahsoka used this a survival mechanism, a necessity for a fugitive Jedi during the Empire's reign. She had to be detached from others in order to fulfill her Purpose, her Mission: help others and fight the Empire.

But the few attachments she did have after the Order fell, I would argue, were pivotal for her journey: Rex, of course, saving her life and returning upon her request to join the Rebellion - and, more importantly, her meeting with the Ghost Crew. Kanan and the others certainly helped her on more than one occasion but it's her relationship with Ezra - despite only knowing each other for a brief time - that ended up saving her life during the duel with Vader on Malachor.

But, after a certain point, that isolation and detachment from others stopped being a necessity and started being a hindrance. Especially with her relationship with Sabine, who also had issues with that - those issues being exacerbated after the loss of her family during the Purge of Mandalore. Instead of staying with Sabine and giving her guidance and counsel and friendship during her lowest point, she sought to abandon her instead. To Ahsoka, it was the best possible choice but remember that she, too, was operating under the influence of her own fears.

Ahsoka should have embraced her attachment with Sabine - not shunned it. That is where she failed and continued to do so until the events of Ahsoka 1x05 in the World Between Worlds.

So, how does Ahsoka - the Master - help Sabine to grow beyond her? How does she rise above her failures?

She encourages Sabine to get a life.

. . . This is not a joke. The best possible way for Ahsoka to help Sabine move forward and become a better Jedi than her is to encourage a life outside of being a Jedi.

For all her life, Ahsoka has lived a life of Purpose - but that can't be all there is. That's what led to her failure with Sabine in the first place; she separated herself from others, keeping in contact only when necessary. She didn't cultivate relationships, friendships, find hobbies, other interests outside of her need to keep finding a cause to fight for.

It led to a life devoid of the simple joys that make it worth living. A life filled with Purpose is grand and noble but it's the people in it, the experiences we enjoy, the moments we spend with loved ones that stick with us to the end.

Ahsoka has led a lonely life. And that, in my opinion, is something she should actively encourage Sabine against.

Sabine needs people in her life. Her time with the Ghost crew did so much good for her, as we all know. When they separated, Sabine was adrift in her search for Ezra - until Ahsoka appeared and offered her a new path forward.

And then that path was cruelly taken away. Sabine was alone again with her bitterness, her yearning, and her grief. She - like all of us - are at our best when surrounded by loved ones who encourage us and stand by us when we are at our lowest.

The Jedi of old were wary of attachments - not love, but attachments that could specifically lead to possessiveness, which is not healthy - but the Order fell a long time ago. The Jedi who survived had to adapt in order to survive; some did it the way Ahsoka did, going for a lone wolf approach.

Others, however . . .

How do Jedi survive in a time when there is no Jedi Order? How do they define themselves?

It is my belief that Kanan did it best. He embraced his attachments; his newfound family, the Ghost Crew - Ezra Bridger, Sabine Wren, Chopper, Zeb, and, most importantly, Hera Syndulla. But he never let his feelings for the others - especially Hera - cloud his judgment when the mission was at stake.

He found a way to honor the Jedi code but adapted it in a way that suited him best.

(Cal Kestis of the Jedi videogame series also followed this approach, but we have yet to see how that ends for him.)

I'm going to paraphrase (probably badly) a post from - I believe but correct me if I'm wrong - @seleneisrising that said something along the lines of that in the absence of a Jedi Order, Kanan and Ezra acted as their own within the Ghost Crew family. They acted in place of an Order but did it in their own way, not strictly adhering to what came before.

The Ghost Crew was a family.

It was Kanan and Ezra's home.

It was their own version of a Jedi Order; one that was perfectly in balance with their feelings and understanding of their Purpose. One that didn't eschew attachments in favor of emotional neutrality but embraced them and allowed those relationships to empower them.

This is how Sabine surpasses Ahsoka. Not following the 'ronin' lifestyle of her master but finding a home to call her own; a place to be herself, truly, as Ahsoka needs her to be.

Finding a life outside of Purpose. Finding friendships, finding family, and finding love.

You know who that last part is referring to.

Sabine follows in the footsteps of Kanan and builds her own Order - her own Clan, to honor her own Mandalorian roots. She does it with Ezra, with Hera, with Zeb, with Chopper, and some day, Jacen when he's ready for his journey. And with Ahsoka too. (And can't forget Murley.)

. . . Huyang, too, I guess. If he wants to come along.

To paraphrase a discussion I had with @starryjediknight: Sabine and Ezra become the new Kanan and Hera for Ghost Crew 2.0.

If isolation, detachment, and distrust from others can be seen as a Path to the Dark Side, then the opposite must be true as a Path to the Light; family, community, and trust being the way to break down barriers to love.

We see that with Sabine's reunion with Ezra - how, immediately, she is almost returned to her former self. How she is healed in his presence and then further healed when Ahsoka returns and begins to make amends with her, promising to stick by her no matter what from now on.

In a way, by doing this, Sabine could fulfill the dream that Anakin wished to see realized: staying true to the Jedi way while also being allowed to follow his feelings.

Rebels was always, at its heart, about family - found and lost.

Ahsoka could be about finding your way back, no matter how far you've strayed. Failures don't have to define you but are lessons to be learned from. They can be markers along the way on this journey we call life for those following us to see the pitfalls that loom when we lose the path.

Ahsoka can see those markers clearly now. She can point them out to Sabine.

And then Sabine can grow beyond her. Reach her full potential. Add her story to the legacy that she's inherited from Ahsoka, just as she did from her master.

This time, it won't be about death and destruction.

It can be better.

It can be about love.

#sabezra #sabine wren #ezra bridger #star wars rebels #ezrabine #star wars #ahsoka show #ahsoka #ahsoka tano #natasha liu bordizzo #eman esfandi

[kanansdume]

So I'd like to make it clear that I do actually still really love Sabine, Hera, and even Ahsoka as characters. I just really don't like their MANDOVERSE iterations. I don't think any of their characterization in the Mandoverse shows are accurate to how they've been portrayed before, generally, and it's almost insulting to call them the same characters.

Even in Rebels, Ahsoka still loved and respected the Jedi and would've NEVER thought to blame them for their own genocide or called them failures. Even in Rebels, Ahsoka still fought for Force sensitive children and agreed (along with Kanan) to take up the responsibility of protecting Force sensitive children the way the Jedi Order had done before them. Rebels Ahsoka was edging her way towards being the perfect messiah character she's become by her own show, but even in this, she is MUCH more clearly struggling with her feelings about Anakin and the reasons behind it are made exponentially clearer. TCW Ahsoka has a lot more personality to her, she's far more willing to be emotional and openly care about the people she is close to. She gives cute nicknames to droids and plays games with her friends. There was none of this strange wise sage to her, she was just... a person. A person who felt things and emoted rather than standing around and parsing out vague quotes like the world's worst therapist bot.

I still LIKE that version of Ahsoka, I still think that is a character you could do some REALLY interesting things with. I think that she is a character whose flaws and struggles could make for some EXTREMELY compelling stories. That version of Ahsoka is HER OWN CHARACTER, she's not just... "Anakin but better." She's not a messiah, she's not the Light Side of the Force Made Manifest, she's not the Daughter Reborn, she's not the New Chosen One. She's just... Ahsoka. She's herself, and that was compelling all on its own.

Hera was SO loyal to her beliefs, yes, but she was loyal above all else to her CAUSE. She was willing to leave Kanan behind when ordered, she was willing to lie to her crew because that was her responsibility to the rebellion, SHE was the one who wanted to be a soldier, SHE was the one who actively sought out the Rebellion and everything that came with it. She was the one who would point out that the others gaining ranks of their own came with responsibilities they needed to commit to. Yes, she sometimes was willing to do what was needed no matter what, but this pretty much always manifested itself as being willing to die for the cause. Taking down the Empire and rebuilding the New Republic meant EVERYTHING to her, she prioritized it above everything else, including her family and her own planet because she believed wholeheartedly in what it would mean for the entire galaxy. So to have her just... not give a shit about the New Republic, to have her disrespect New Republic leadership just because she can, to have someone claim that the reason people like her is because she DOESN'T follow orders? That's not Hera. That's not who she is AT ALL. Of COURSE she cares deeply, but everyone who loved her did so because they loved ALL of her, including the parts of her that she had chosen to commit to the Rebellion above all else. Kanan loved that about her, he loved how loyal she was and how deeply committed she was.

Sabine was a character we got to really see grow over the course of Rebels' four seasons. She WAS a little bit of a bratty teenager with a problem with authority early on, we see her push against Hera's willingness to keep secrets for the Rebellion because she hates being kept in the dark after her experiences with the Empire. But ultimately she has to learn that not all secrets are kept maliciously, some of them keep others safe, and she has to decide whether or not she trusts Hera enough to allow this secret. And ultimately, she DOES. Hera earns that trust and so Sabine steps back. We see Sabine forced to learn about mercy with Fenn Rau when she wants to kill him for attacking Hera, and instead she helps Kanan capture Rau and take him in and she spends MONTHS persistently working to befriend him and earn his trust. We see her have to face her own fears about her past and make the difficult choice to stay with her family on Mandalore when she can tell that they need her more than the Ghost crew does, and then make the opposite choice later when she's able to relinquish the burden of leadership onto someone she believes is worthy and Ezra needs her help. We see her understand that it's important to respect other people's choices, even when it's hard, even when you don't like them, and that's exactly what she does with Ezra in the finale. She understands why Ezra is choosing to sacrifice himself and has to choose whether to stop him or let him go. And she LETS HIM GO. THAT'S the kind of person she's grown to be by the end of the show. She's merciful, she's a proud Mandalorian, she's a good friend who understands how to make the hard choice even when torn between two families, she's persistent and compassionate, she's understanding and mature. She likes explosives, but now she knows that some situations are better handled with a kind word and an open hand.

That's MY Sabine. THAT'S who she used to be. She was funny, she was competent, she was smart, she was artistic, she was a child of Mandalore who learned mercy from a Jedi. I'll always love that Sabine because this version of her is the only REAL version of her.

That abomination we saw on the Ahsoka show wasn't truly Sabine. They might've LOOKED the same, but quite honestly you could've given her a new name and a different outfit and literally no one would've ever thought it was Sabine. She wouldn't have come off as a knock-off of Sabine because she just is so clearly... NOT Sabine. She's rude, she's an idiot, she can't do ANYTHING, she has no connection to being a Mandalorian, she's not merciful, she's not like the Jedi at all despite the fact that she's claiming she's training to be one (which is potentially because she's learning how to be a Jedi from someone who doesn't truly want to be a Jedi herself and has distanced herself from everything it's supposed to mean).

So as much as I make fun of these characters on the Ahsoka show, as much as I am going to keep criticizing them, I DO still love the real versions of them.

It's too bad Filoni doesn't.

#star wars #ahsoka tano #sabine wren #hera syndulla #star wars rebels #rebels #ahsoka show #ahsoka spoilers #dave filoni critical #filoni critical

[njordr]

no because anakin was never dealt with a winning anything, my dude spent years as a slave’s kid working in the junk shop building droids as a form of fun.

i always enjoy the whole “Anakin just expected Obi-wan and Padmé to trust and listen to him?? Asshole” discourse because like… yeah??

not trying to self insert here but as a mentally I’ll individual 🫡 who in a fit of mania sometimes believes they are absolutely, 100% right and has the irrational thinking of; “im right, and you love me, you’re the person I love most, you should get it” & is totally irrationally emotional when they DONT, yeah… I GET THAT SIR!!

Even if it’s completely understandable, deep down I know they’re not at fault for not getting my own emotions, I’m in control of those — not others. I know this. Still, when my partner says something that goes against me it’s like nails against chalkboards sometimes

Again, when looking at Anakin he had nothing. He was a slave all his life, just to a different master each time. on Tatooine, to the Jedi/code, Palpatine and even to the Darth vader suit, he is never of his own free will. It was Qui-gon’s choice to win Anakin, to take him from his mother and home to what he thought would be a better life. granted it is, but he also finds himself isolated from what is imo what is supposed to be his “placeholder family”

MORE IMPORTANTLY Padmé is the love of his life, telling him that what he thinks they need, what he’s done for her and their family etc to be at peace/alive was actually WRONG!! BAD!! All meanwhile he doesn’t have any of his support at his side; Rex is off with ahsoka, obi-wan is fighting grievous on utpau meanwhile Palpatine has puppy Anakin at his every whim and call ((lets not forget that Palpatine had to have been grooming Anakin from a relatively young age)) They don’t get it, they didn’t see Padmé die before their very eyes, they don’t know what’s waiting them. Anakin is trying to save his family. Obi-Wan going against him is salt in the wound, even if Anakin himself knows it’s wrong and against the code and just completely evil.

I mean, Padmé FORGAVE him for the whole tusken massacre smh is it such a stretch to believe she would stand by his side as he waged war against the galaxy? i mean… isn’t that what love is…..? selfish, passionate, narcissistic, messy? she herself is a politician who often prioritized Anakin over her own duties I bet my man expected some “if you have a body in your trunk I’ll bring the shovel” type beat which also, i reiterate, WHY WOULDN’T HE when his wife forgave him for mass genocide, children included?,

he is emotionally/mentally fragile, he just recently slew younglings and killed Mace — you think this mf is thinking logically? Stop giving him the benefit of the doubt; he was a mess throughout the series, not once did he ever have his feet on the ground. He isn’t suddenly going to make the “right” decision, especially if it means sacrificing his loved ones. He’s an extremely flawed character, stop expecting him to make the right call.

The blocks of Anakin’s character have been set up to fall, Obi-Wan and Padmé are two of his most beloved relationships aside from his MOTHER that are completely dogging on his only hope of SAVING THEM. Anakin was never simply, “you have to do what I say or else I’ll get upset!” that’s a disrespect to his character — he can think logically. He isn’t a child. He is strategic, effective, in tcw he is the most efficient victorious warrior making Palpatine’s efforts look even better as leader of the republic. He builds droids from the time he is a young child all throughout his formative - adult years to the extent where knows how to understand their bleep bloops.

Anakin is flawed deeply, he was doomed from the get-go, never had a chance. His feelings are complex and deep and he questions the faith he swore to follow/protect. His character is so interesting to me and I have such a difficult time depicting the raw duality of man he wears on his shoulders everyday. Our desire to do good, yet to be evil; our desire to be unselfish, yet we are selfish.

This beautiful, scarred, monstrous mosaic of a man who from the very beginning, had a huge amount of pressure on him was meant to be so horribly dismantled. What other choice did he have? He is the chosen one, how could he be wrong? How could his idea of saving his family be any less honourable than the Jedi of the Galaxy?

He isn’t simply angry at them for not agreeing with him/falling with him, he feels betrayed. Personally. Obi-Wan and Padmé are pieces of Anakin, people that he loved so fiercely he labeled them as his enemies once they hurt him, he is too far gone to give them any semblance of second chances

anyways yep happy Thursday guys

#star wars #rambling #holy shit I wrote this over 8 hours #rambles #ooc #hc #headcanon #headcanons #obi wan kenobi #anakin skywalker #padme amidala #obikin #anidala #writing #brain go brrrr #brain go brr #the clone wars #revenge of the Sith #being wistful #phantom menace #star wars feels #star wars headcanons #Star Wars headcanon #star wars rots #star wars the clone wars #talking 2 myself #it’s ok don’t mind me #im fine #like fine when ur running on 5 hours sleep #and the bipolar mania sits in in waves of up and down

[buckybarnesss]

I think one of the best things later seasons did was force Scott to become more mature than the kid he was in s1 and s2. For example, Liam.

Yes, he's an OBVIOUS parallel to being bitten without consent, and his fear of turning into a monster is even bigger than Scott's sometimes, but Scott now an alphaz KNOWS how to deal with it, and how to support him.

Mellowing Derek down and making him more of a team player concerned about the kids FIRST was also a good move.

this ask is so topical. forgive my star wars comparisons but i've been watching ahsoka.

i often consider the derek --> scott --> liam storyline to be comparable to that of a master and padawan relationship in a lot of ways. all their knowledge becomes your knowledge. the teacher's failures are the student's lessons.

i'm not the biggest fan of the last jedi but there are some really great moments especially the scene between luke and yoda.

"the greatest teacher failure is" and "we are what they grow beyond" applies heavily to the story of derek hale, scott mccall and liam dunbar.

the show even places a lampshade on this kind of connection early on when stiles makes the yoda joke in heart monitor.

all throughout season 1 derek is desperately trying to protect scott to varying levels of success. derek doesn't want scott to become him but derek is also clouded by anger and self-hatred at his younger self for his perceived failures and sins. scott despite his huge, glaring issues with male authority figures does learn from derek but it takes him a while to recognize that. derek is a convenient target for scott's anger at what happened to him.

their fear, their anger, their resentments are what they have to grow beyond with each other and that doesn't happen till around season 3.

season 3 even shines a spotlight on how young derek was a lot like scott.

visionary is one of the most important episodes of the entire series and does a lot of heavy lifting for the lore of the universe, the narrative of the season, the backstory of the hales, the relationships between characters -- like it's a juicy episode if only the fandom stopped taking peter and gerard's words as unadulterated truth.

it also gives us the most obvious parallel between derek and scott. i think it's pretty obvious they wrote the paige storyline knowing allison's fate. they wanted this parallel on purpose.

paige is bit without her consent and derek has to mercy kill her to spare her the slow and painful death the rejection of the bite is putting her through. derek did not do anything bad here. this was an act of compassion but it deeply traumatized and hurt derek.

while i do not believe derek's eyes changed color due to any sort of killing an innocent nonsense as peter suggests symbolically derek's innocence died with paige. it left a physical mark on him. she is there every time he shows his eyes. he carries her with him.

allison in contrast to paige has agency in her choice. she willingly goes to save lydia and even ignores lydia's warning. she chooses to save isaac which leaves her open to being stabbed.

allison does not suffer a slow, painful death like paige. scott holds her in comfort and hears her last words.

allison's body wasn't removed and abandoned to be chalked up to an animal attack. scott gets held by his mother, isaac is taken in by chris whereas derek was left alone in the cellar and left to flounder in grief ripe for the picking by kate argent.

so much of derek and scott's relationship is about reflection. they see each other like one only sees their flaws in a mirror. it's why their goodbye in smoke and mirrors is so important. it's acceptance, it's thank you, it's i'm sorry and it's goodbye and good luck.

scott and stiles are a better version of derek and peter. they are less toxic but they have their issues. scott and stiles have a hard time with communication but there's co-dependency.

this brings us to liam dunbar. liam is a precious nugget but liam has derek's anger issues and scott's fear of becoming a monster.

if stiles and scott are a better version of derek and peter than liam and mason are a better version of all them.

it is liam who is able to overcome derek and scott's failures.

liam is able to reconcile with theo.

liam makes the effort to make peace with corey.

liam doesn't lose his first love.

liam overcomes derek and scott's failures and learns lessons from their mistakes.

with liam there's a lot of reprised beats that show how far these characters have come. teen wolf subscribes to george lucas's maxmum:

scott bites liam without his consent but scott doesn't leave him like peter did him. scott tries to support him through the transformation even going as far as to try the whole "the bite is a gift" and "we're brothers now" on for size.

argent comes not to harm them but he saves them.

liam is the best of scott and derek.

derek even gets to gloat a little and have his obi-wan watching anakin deal with ahsoka moment

he is delighted.

we rightfully rip into teen wolf for it's failures but one thing about the show that i think it did fairly well was demonstrate how the entire narrative revolves around generational trauma.

the derek, scott and liam relationship is an excellent example of it.

people say that scott doesn't grow as a character which is a lie. you don't have to like the trajectory of his character arc but he does have one. the show is about him growing up. it's about these kids dealing with the grief and trauma of their lives including that of growing up.

derek was stuck in his grief and anger for a long time. he had lost so much. derek's storyline i think isn't so much a growing up arc but rather one of choosing to live not just survive. scott forced him to confront the anger he carried at his younger self. to realize he was just a child and no one protected him.

derek had a choice.

derek is also a product of peter's lessons and teachings. i think he grapples with some of this in s2 where we see derek in his quote villainy era unquote.

instead derek chose to be a protector and he evolves. he is not peter. he is not kate. derek is not a monster others wanted him to become.

instead he inherits the gift of his mother and sister becoming more at peace with himself.

he is the person that paige loved and accepted. he is deserving of stiles's loyalty and affection.

but he can scare some kids on halloween as a treat.

#my blog #thoughts on teen wolf #teen wolf #derek hale #scott mccall #liam dunbar

[salylockheart]

I've seen a few people getting upset at the way they talked about the Jedi Order in Ahsoka. Let's not pretend the Order was without faults. Their methods were deeply flawed.

#ahsoka tano #ahsoka series #ahsoka spoilers #ahsoka

[trashquisitor-shirozora]

Another anon here, once again thanking you for your service validating the confused masses for whom s3 is not clicking for. In response to another anon response, and the fact that faloni recently said that "you don't need to watch clone wars to watch ahsoka" do you think he's trying to get a bunch of new people to go in blind so they don't know how nuanced these characters used to be?

Bo for me is the main thing. Like, this Faloni wrote a terrorist, and then gave her backstory, understandable if deeply flawed motivation, and a skewed worldview to the point where a few seasons after she's introduced as a part of Death Watch, we are rooting for her and Obi Wan as they work together even though we know she's done terrible things, because more importantly she knows she's done terrible things. There's no redemption for her mainly because it never felt like Bo was looking for it.

I just feel like the Disney execs running all this have never seen Clone Wars and are now just brushing it off as a kids show for kids and not realizing that the character they are trying to elevating to main character perfection is a war criminal.

Also, good luck on your writing!!! I shall have to check out your AO3 now!

Hello there, another anon! I appreciate your kind words and I do hope you've also found your way to other people's many thoughts on various aspects of the way Season 3 is simply not working for them. It fascinates me how we all have been taking different things from this season compared to the previous two (and personally I find it helpful as a writer writing stories).

Forgive me for not having the cool vocabulary or know-how to use that vocabulary to talk about these things. These are just my opinions as a layperson who spent a long time in fandoms and thinks too much too critically. I didn't see a single episode of TCW until last year when I was doing research on Mandalore and Sundari. I never saw Rebels. My knowledge of these two shows came primarily from Wookieepedia, friends and fellow fans, and the mobile game Star Wars: Galaxy of Heroes. Personally, I think Filoni & Co. are trusting the long-time Star Wars fans and the newer fans won over by The Mandalorian to keep them sailing onward toward the Thrawn crossover movie on the horizon but I feel that once the novelty wears off, the General Audience will have a harder time keeping up because they didn't watch TCW or Rebels or know anything about either the original Thrawn Trilogy or the new Thrawn novels. I know I'm going to have a tougher time because I don't know these characters that well and need to be convinced to care. I do think Filoni is going to have to brush aside or flatten/simplify character traits and histories just to engage viewers who are coming into this for the first time. He and Favreau were smart to introduce Ahsoka and her future path in the D+ verse with a Mandalorian episode, though who knows what actual damage that did to The Mandalorian (a lot), so that people become familiar with her and what she wants. Now they have to convince people they want to know where Ahsoka is going and who these other people are, and why it matters that Thrawn is back.

I have read so many meta and critical posts these past few weeks breaking down this whitewashing and rehabilitation of Bo-Katan. She has such a dark and complicated history and I love that for her! I loved her appearances in Season 2 because it felt like a continuation of what I read about her in the Wookieepedia and in posts and commentaries all around the Internet. She's a Messy Bitch and a foil and an antagonizing force, and that's what I expected going into Season 3. Seeing her mope around on the throne, having given up because her fleet dumped her ass for failing to get back the Darksaber, was really jarring and I couldn't understand what Filoni and Favreau were planning to do with her. WELP. NOW WE KNOW. They needed her to be at her lowest so that she can see a sleeping water dragon and hit the reset button, I guess.

I think the decision to erase a huge part of her past has less to do with making it a kids show for kids (because TCW showed what she did and the consequences of her involvement) and more to do with Disney trying to recoup the twin costs of buying Star Wars and launching a streaming service that lost them, what, a billion bucks? They need to sell her as a heroic figure now, a princess and a girlboss because girls and women can't relate to male characters I guess?????, but she has to be safe and palatable to market to the masses so we lose her Death Watch past and we lose the death of her sister. We lose count of how many times she already lost the Darksaber. We lose her messy past, her ambition and drive, and we forgive her for her crimes because she... saved Din's life when he sank in the waters like a rock?

This version of Bo-Katan just does not work for me and the idea that we're now following her redemption arc when this was not what I was sold just... it makes me angry when I don't have enough sleep and really, really sad when I have enough sleep. Bo-Katan could've been a wonderful tragic figure, the cautionary tale the Armorer warned Din about in another lifetime, but now I just look at this season and the direction of the D+ shows as a tragedy itself.

Thanks for stopping by, another anon, and I hope my fics are to your liking!

#shirozora awkwardly responds to asks #the mandalorian #the mandalorian critical #mando critical #the mandalorian season 3 #mando spoilers #i really wish i could enjoy this show like so many other people are but that's just not in my cards

[superectojazzmage]

Ahsoka Review

So far, this show is like a weird middle ground on the whole rollercoaster of quality that has been the Disney+ Star Wars shows. It’s nowhere near as fantastic as Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2, Bad Batch, and Andor. But it’s also not anywhere as godawful as Kenobi, Book of Boba Fett, and Mandalorian season 3 ended up being.

Acting is all over the place. On one end, you have Ray Stevenson (God rest his soul), Natasha Liu Bordizzo, Eman Esfandi, Diana Lee Inosanto, Clancy Brown, and David Tennant all giving great or at least good performances but occasionally hitting points where they’re clearly struggling to make their dialogue sound like actual human speech. On the other end you have Rosario Dawson talking like she’s either weirdly smug or on Valium with no in-between; my feelings on her as Ahsoka have definitely soured a lot as time goes on, she’s just so emotionless and robotic and when she isn’t doing that, she comes off as unlikably self-righteous. And then you have Mary Elizabeth Winstead really trying her best despite not being a great pick for Hera and Ivanna Sakhno who hasn’t really gotten much of anything to do so far.

Writing is even more hit and miss. One second, it’s perfectly serviceable, the next very clunky, but it’s never really as good as in most other Star Wars works. It’s a bit like the dialogue in the Prequels; more concerned with conveying exposition to the audience than sounding like natural conversation. Some of the character interactions work really well, some don’t. Some of the humor lands really great, some doesn’t.

Music is absolutely AMAZING. Kevin Kiner is a godsend.

Fight scenes are pretty good. Not groundbreaking but definitely enjoyable. Choreography is good and the characters usually actually feel like they’re trying to kill each other rather than getting way too showy like the Prequels could. Sabine and Shin’s dual definitely is going to awaken things in the lesbians.

The story succumbs to the “making things too complicated and messy and lore-breaking” flaw that the Sequels did. What is the point of this Star Map when the Imperial Remnant is already in contact with Thrawn? How is Thrawn in contact with the Remnant AT ALL given that he’s apparently in a different galaxy entirely? Why was the Map hidden away in an old Nightsister temple like it’d been there for centuries instead of being in Imperial Remnant custody and how did Morgan know it would lead to Thrawn? How did Nightsisters even get ahold of this thing? Who are these mysterious extragalactic beings? I’m sure some of these mysteries will be explained as we go, but I’m also kinda scared they WON’T be and I furthermore feel like the story is just throwing in unnecessary complications; literally why are we dropping the world-breaking bombshell of going to another galaxy instead of just having Thrawn be in the Unknown Regions like in Legends? The whole “bootstrapping a bunch of hyperdrives together” thing would actually kinda make sense if they were just going to the Unknown Regions, but another galaxy entirely?

”It’s not loyalty, it’s greed”. I see we will NOT be having any moral complexity in our Star Wars today. Especially hilarious because Ahsoka’s assessment there doesn’t even match the events onscreen at all and the situation actually portrayed feels very much like it should have depth to it, the show just doesn’t want to acknowledge it. Disappointing, given how good of a job Andor and early Mandalorian did at depicting things in a nuanced light.

This show tips the New Republic from merely over-stretched, over-bureaucratic, and deeply flawed to downright criminally incompetent. It was one thing when Mando season 3 showed one or two Imperial spies subverting the broken system for their own ends. It’s another for this show to have AN ENTIRE MAJOR SHIPYARD be Imperial spies operating directly under the Republic’s nose. It’s like they’re trying to make us feel happy the First Order is gonna blow it up.

Pacing is… odd. It’s a very easygoing and slow story, which is very good as it gives the characters and events time needed to breathe, but there are times where it can feel like it’s really dragging out scenes that other stories would’ve sped through in the name of getting to the damn point.

Bizarrely, despite this being supposedly being Ahsoka’s show, every other character feels much more meaningful, likable, and pivotal to the narrative. Sabine is a great protagonist, Hera is still the Space Mom we know and love, Huyang is a fun sidekick, Baylen Skoll is really interesting as an antagonist, Thrawn and Ezra cast a palatable shadow over the plot without even directly appearing, and so on. Meanwhile Ahsoka feels like a prop.

Thank God Chopper is still committing war crimes.

The best way I can describe the plot so far is like it’s somehow simultaneously holding itself back and doing too much, if that makes sense. It’s jumping into territory that could easily hurt it and other works in the setting, but also seems too antsy to commit to doing something genuinely daring.

All in all, this is pretty much Rebels Season 5 but in live action, and it’s a very hit and miss affair. It’s enjoyable so far, but I’ll have to see what direction Filoni takes the subsequent episodes in before deciding whether or not this is a good series or goes in the “not my canon” trashcan.

#star wars #ahsoka #ahsoka series #ahsoka show #star wars ahsoka #ahsoka spoilers #sw ahsoka #star wars legends #star wars rebels #star wars the clone wars #the mandalorian #star wars expanded universe #dave filoni #star wars andor #andor #book of boba fett #kenobi series #kenobi show #the bad batch

[kalinara]

Yesterday, a post came across my dash that utterly boggled me, so much, that I had to take a whole day to process the ridiculousness of the argument.  But now I have, and in the interest of not leaping on someone else’s post to tell them how capital letter WRONG they are, I decided to make this not so vague post.

So the post was primarily about Anakin, and whether or not he’d have stayed in the Order if he hadn’t Fallen.  This person said no, and I’m inclined to agree with that.  I think, and this is NOT intended as a critique on the Jedi Order, that Anakin, due to his trauma and temperament, had never been suited to the particular environment or sacrifices required to be a Jedi of the pre-Empire era.

This isn’t actually a critique on Anakin either.  Not everyone is suited to life in the priesthood.  It is what it is.

But the part that utterly boggled me was that this post then turned into a rant about how the fans who bought into the idea that the Jedi Order were a “found family” were wrong, because you can’t possibly have a “found family” with infants who never chose to be taken away from their parents.

And...WHAT?

Okay, if we’re going to focus on semantics, as I am generally wont to do, then yes, I don’t think the Jedi are a “found” family, because that usually implies people who seek out one another purposefully.

But they’re still a FAMILY.

First of all, let’s hit the elephant in the room.  This argument doesn’t explicitly call the Jedi kidnappers, but the implication is there.  But as we’ve seen MANY TIMES OVER, the Jedi of the Pre-Empire Republic did not steal children.  They always asked for consent.  The parents, when there were parents, agreed.

Now, we can raise some ethical questions about the general Republic society: did parents agree because they thought it would give their child a better life?  Was there a way that a better life could be provided for a child without separation from parents?  Is separation of parents TRULY necessary in every case?

These are issues worth discussing in fiction as they also reflect on the real world.  But at the same time, it doesn’t make the Jedi bad people, just because the general system is flawed.  (If participating in a flawed system makes people evil, then there’s no such thing as a good American, I’ll admit that now.)

And the idea that people can’t be a family because they’re not with their biological family is the antithesis of Star Wars, particularly in the modern era.  Anakin never consented to lose his children, and that’s tragic but necessary given what he became, and Luke and Leia never consented to their adoption, but that doesn’t mean that we haven’t seen how much and deeply Leia is loved by Bail and Breha.

Hell, we saw Owen Lars, ordinary farmer whose only claim to significance was a step-brother he met as an adult, stare down a fucking Inquisitor for Luke and Obi-Wan.  

And then there’s Din fucking Djarin.  You really want to make that argument here?

And even, EVEN, if we buy the idea that the Jedi Order are cruel and evil to take kids from their parents, this doesn’t negate the feelings of the CHILDREN.  Obi-Wan Kenobi loved Qui-Gon Jinn like a father.  Ahsoka loved Anakin like a brother.  And we’re getting a whole fucking show about Anakin and Obi-Wan’s deep love for one another, and the tragedy of how it’s been twisted.  

These Jedi grew up in a creche TOGETHER.  Reva didn’t just watch her friends die, they were her brothers and sisters.  And even if Anakin’s later recruitment may have altered the way he perceived the order as a whole, that doesn’t mean that the family feelings don’t exist.

Would Anakin have left the Order?  Maybe?  I kind of hope so.  I think he’d have been much happier as Padme’s consort.  Would they have allowed their children to be trained as Jedi?  Eh, not under the old system, I’d suspect.  But we know from supplemental material that eventually Luke will have a system where his students are permitted contact with their families.  A boarding school rather than a monastery.  I could imagine that Anakin and Padme might embrace the idea of a similar system, one that can exist alongside, as an alternative, to the stricter Jedi Order.

But I really am tired of seeing people demonize the Jedi Order for what it is.  Perfect no, but they’re PEOPLE and they loved deeply, and they didn’t deserve what happened to them.

[gch1995]

Obi wan was kind of a hater, he looked down on all of anikans closest relationships aside from padame…who he probably was attracted to (she had slot in common with the duchess)…he gave Rex a hard time even though in the end Cody was the one who turned on him and Rex was able to resist the order 66…he was always talking about R2D2 even through the droid had proven himself in battle countless times and saved many lives and Jedi

Obi-Wan was very critical, cynical, and hypocritical in regards to his treatment of Anakin’s relationship with Padme, too.

Yeah, Obi-Wan did genuinely grow attached to Anakin, in spite of his constant denials that he did until the end of Revenge of the Sith when it was too little too late to make any sort of change for the better. That genuine affection he developed for Anakin definitely was also one of the major reasons why Obi-Wan kept secrets from Yoda and the Council about Anakin’s romance with Padme and his growing unease in regards to his former padawan’s increasingly dangerous and erratic emotional/mental instability.

However, Obi-Wan Kenobi was also a deeply cowardly, insecure, hot-tempered, proud, and self-centered man. He built a stubbornly inflexible shield of arrogance, criticism, deceit, manipulation, and willful denial to avoid having to take the risk of truly facing and fully owning up to what were, at least partially, consequences of his bad decisions and flaws. iIn a lot of ways, he is similar to what Anakin becomes as Darth Vader until the end of Return of the Jedi, which is what truly makes them great foils when you really examine their dynamics, growth, regression, and aftermath in the series.

The take that Obi-Wan Kenobi was “emotionally mature,” “kind,” and “vastly morally superior” to Anakin is ridiculous to me because he really wasn’t. Yeah, technically we see Anakin committing more atrocities against others throughout the galaxy than Obi-Wan Kenobi because it’s a story about his fall from the side of the Jedi Order’s even more corrupt space soldier cult of enemies in the Sith/First Order from within the confines of a very corrupt and misguided cult-like Jedi Order that he had a one-in-a million chance of succeeding in because of his bad choices, his background, the Jedi Order’s neglect and unwillingness to meet his needs, and Palpatine’s deceptions and manipulations.

Obi-Wan doesn’t go dark, in spite of repeatedly being an asshole, because the plot required for him to remain as a deeply misguided tragic failed mentor character for the Skywalker boys in the lesser evil cult of two deeply fucked up space soldier cults.

However, it’s also not a story about Obi-Wan being this amazingly brave, kind, selfless, and supportive guardian and friend who got dealt an unfair hand by the Skywalker boys treating him like garbage all the time either. More often than not, we witness him being the asshole in his relationships with Luke and Anakin by abusing his position of authority and/or seniority over them, not the other way around.

For the most part, I don’t believe he intentionally went out of his way to seriously hurt Anakin, Ahsoka, or Luke. However, he was willing to knowingly take that risk to do so repeatedly when he was befriending them/working with them because Obi-Wan was more terrified of not fitting in with Yoda and the Jedi Council by being honest with himself, being honest with those he cared about, sticking up for those he cared about, trusting his own heart, and honestly admitting that he kept being an ass-kisser and kept following a fucked up Jedi code because he had no faith in his own self-worth.

Granted, Anakin did genuinely go overboard in his obsession with finding Obi-Wan to get revenge after the events of Mustafar. Obi-Wan and Yoda did have every right to feel angry about him going dark. However, they were the ones who allowed for it to become a possibility for Anakin to go dark at all in the first place as his guardians and teachers who repeatedly deceived him, endangered him, exploited him, gaslit him, isolated him, manipulated him, and willfully neglected his emotional/mental health and well-being as a child under their care by allowing him to speak alone to Palpatine, a politician they all had suspected was shady (sans Anakin since he had no prior experience with politicians before the age of 9 and was being groomed by him over that time) on the Council for the past 13-14 years now “for the greater good.”

It’s not like taking Palpatine down came from an entirely genuine desire to stop their enemies to protect other people because they were such “kind” and “selfless” people either. Yoda and the high Council also suddenly cared about taking the Chancellor down 14 years later into his term because their decision to have the recruits of their military/organization follow him was coming back to bite them in the ass by ruining their reputation in the eyes of the general public throughout the galaxy. Yoda and the majority of the high Council repeatedly decided to vote on being servants of the state to Palpatine and other politicians they knew were corrupt for “the greater good” for years now. They very conveniently only decided that one of them “must be a Sith they had to take down” after he requested them to join war, the high council agreed, and their organization/military’s incompetence and toxicity got exposed to the general public of the galaxy in ways that became harmful to their public reputation on a widespread scale, too. It doesn’t matter that they actually turned out to be right about suspecting Palpatine to be a Sith Lord, or that they had good reason to be suspicious. It’s all too transparent just how self-serving Yoda and the high Council actually are being when they suddenly decide to turn on a corrupt politician they enabled and supported for when the consequences of choosing to follow him have finally made them look bad in the eyes of the general public throughout the galaxy.

Anakin technically became worse in terms of morality because he got recruited to join the even worse military space soldier cult/dictatorship in the galaxy as Darth Vader. Yeah, that is, at least, partially on himself for his own bad decisions and eventual lack of effort to try better after he got put in that suit for a while, though I don’t think it’s fair to place the blame all on just him. He was constantly dealing with horrible mitigating circumstances of being an abuse, manipulation, and oppression victim with compromised agency under corrupt authority figures within broken systems his entire life in one way or another from which there was never a safe escape offered. He likely suffered from a handful of some moderate traumatic brain injuries to his prefrontal cortex from being electrocuted by Sith lightning, considering the changes in personality, decrease in empathy, flat emotional affect, and poor long-term decision making skills.

However, though the entire Jedi Order didn’t deserve Order 66, I don’t think many of them were these “blameless” victims or “noble” failures like Obi-Wan and Yoda kept trying to convince themselves they were after the Jedi Order’s and Republic’s fell either. I think a lot of them were and/or grew up to be very arrogant, cowardly, deceitful, hypocritical, manipulative, and willfully in-denial assholes who kept trying to lie to themselves about still being these heroic, kind, brave, and selfless soldiers of the Republic for “the greater good” because that was easier to accept than honestly acknowledging that they had been willing to knowingly commit these atrocities and hurt people in their fear of the Sith and fear of these corrupt institutions they served because they were more concerned about their needs, their public reputation, and their security than they were about doing the right thing when it seemed the odds were stacked against them.

Aside from protecting Anakin and himself from the condemnation of the Jedi Council by being quiet about his relationship with Padme that he knew about, I don’t really remember a time in the books, movies, or the clips of the TCW (2008-2020) cartoon when Obi-Wan was actually supportive of Anakin’s crush on Padme or his relationship with her. In Attack of the Clones, he forbids Anakin from getting romantically attached or involved with her. He insists that Anakin leave Padme behind after she gets knocked out for a minute in a battle on Geneosis when he sees that Anakin wants to go and rescue her after that happens because “he needs him here.” The TCW TV series actually makes Obi-Wan’s criticisms of Anakin’s attachment to Padme and his attempts to pressure him to choose between her and the Jedi Order look even worse.

At least, in the movies Obi-Wam never had been through a similar experience as Anakin to compare to where he fell in love with someone outside of the Jedi and felt pressured to choose between them and that ridiculous “no attachment” Jedi mantra, so his lack of empathy and criticisms in regards to Anakin’s feelings for Padme and their relationship feels more understandable. In TCW, though, Obi-Wan has also gotten romantically attached to someone else and felt conflicted over choosing between her and the Jedi Order, but he still refuses to have any sort of understanding for Anakin in this scenario. It makes him look like more of an asshole and a hypocrite.

They never should have made Obitine a romance in TCW because it doesn’t line up with the rest of Obi-Wan’s established characterization, and it makes him look like more of an asshole for not being understanding of Anakin’s attachment to Padme. In the movies, he was a hypocritical ass-kisser of the Council/Jedi Order at nearly all costs, but he wasn’t usually that blatantly hypocritical and law-defying of the Order. His flaws were there, but he lacked the courage, outside knowledge, and self-reflection abilities to fully acknowledge his shortcomings.

There’s no reason why a Jedi shouldn’t be able to feel safe and accepted by the Council for having and maintaining close relationships with other people, while also being Jedi in their day jobs on the side. So long as neither seriously interfere with the other, it shouldn’t have to be an issue, and I don’t think it would have necessarily become an issue of becoming unhealthily codependent, obsessive, and possessive for Anakin, Padme, or other fallen Jedi if they could have been able to feel safe and supported being honest about caring about their loved ones, needing help, and wanting more freedom in their personal lives without the constant threat of being shunned, ignored, or dismissed by their bosses, mentors, and the government if and/or when they were constantly lingering in the background.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, just because Obi-Wan Kenobi was a very bad guardian and friend who was a deeply flawed person with very emotionally/psychologically abusive/ cult like brainwashing tendencies in regards to Anakin and Luke, it does not mean that I also think he was a heinous mustache twirling Disney villain who deliberately set him up to fail from the very beginning because he was just that petty.

I just so happen to view him as being a very arrogant, cowardly, cut-throat ambitious, hot-tempered, hypocritical, impatient, emotionally immature, manipulative, exceedingly status conscious, self-centered, and willfully in-denial bastard. He was generally willing to throw other people under the bus who got in his way of being able to obtain the security of external validation from those authority figures with positions over him within a broken Jedi Order because he was too afraid to admit that he lacked too much security in his own moral self-worth and agency to do the right thing. Then, after it all shattered to pieces, at least in part, because of his own bad decisions, he and Yoda were way too guilt ridden and proud to accept the truth that they really hadn’t been the brave, kindhearted, or noble heroes of the story that they initially set out to be, but assholes who knowingly practiced, supported, and used abusive, exceedingly controlling, isolating. and morally wrong methods and practices to try and achieve worthy ends because they were easier and safer than actually taking the risk of facing their fears by learning to let go of air tight control and toxic conformity instead.

I’ve said that Anakin went on to develop similar negative traits, too, albeit in different way, but he’s the only one of his surviving predecessors from the old Jedi Order/Republic who consistently gets framed as wrong for it, never gets rewarded for it, and doesn’t get to be rewarded with any sort of happy ish ending until he finally does. Obi-Wan and Yoda never truly learn their lesson (the Obi-Wan Show doesn’t count as legit character growth for him because he goes right back to being an asshole again in the OT films, anyway), and ultimately get rewarded for being assholes who unrepentantly continue justifying behaving and treating others as pawns in shitty ways for whatever they consider worthy ends.

Yet, the narrative of the OT says I’m supposed to feel sorry for them and let them off the hook for treating Luke in shitty ways to use him as a pawn for their own ends without any remorse, just because they’re on the lesser evil of two deeply messed up sides. The way they’re written in the narrative of the OT movies gives me no real reason to be sympathetic towards Obi-Wan and Yoda, aside from just not being Sith, the greater evil side of the enemy, but I don’t know why I should be seeing them as heroic, sympathetic assholes, or reformed assholes at all in the narrative of the OT that Lucas treats them as? When do they actually ever do or say anything remotely apologetic, genuinely kind, and selfless for anyone else in the movies, unless it somehow benefits their own ends of “the greater good?”

Even that “sacrifice” that Obi-Wan made for Luke in A New Hope where he let Vader kill him in front of him was something he had an ulterior motive for doing. He wanted to become a force ghost to be able to train Luke to kill off Vader in the afterlife, and further motivate him to do it. The only surviving well-meaning asshole from Luke’s predecessors of the old Jedi Order who seems to genuinely grow to understand the true meaning of remorse and selfless sacrifice at all in the OT movies is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader, and the narrative expected me to see him as more unsympathetic than Obi-Wan and Yoda, even though he had more meaningful character development and reformation in the last 20 minutes of Return of the Jedi than the “good guys” had throughout all three movies.

Yoda sucked in both the OT and PT movies. Obi-Wan was an asshole in both the OT and PT movies, too, though the PT movies definitely did make me more sympathetic towards his charactef. I get a better understanding of why he is an asshole in the PT movies than the OT movies, he’s a victim of a shitty Jedi Council, too, and he does face a partial negative consequence for being an asshole by helping push away Anakin. Ewan McGregor really did a wonderful job of making me feel for Obi-Wan as a character, even though he was generally an arrogant, hypocritical, and misguided asshole. However, when I look at all of his bad behaviors, choices, reactions, words, and traits throughout the franchise as a character on the whole, Obi-Wan Kenobi was even more of an asshole in the prequels at times than he was in the OT films. Just because Ewan McGregor and the script of the prequels made me more understanding of why Obi-Wan’s character acted like an asshole on a number occasions, that doesn’t mean I thought that made it cool for him to be one either. I could say the same thing about Anakin Skywalker, Padme Amidala, Mace-Windu, Qui-Gonn Jinn, the overall Jedi Order as a galactic superpower law enforcement/military, Padme Amidala, Jarr Jarr Binks, and the overall Republic government in the prequels.

Do I think they were cartoonishly evil mustache twirling villain Darth Sidious/Lord Palpatine level assholes who were secretly malicious psychopaths in their intentions all along with no genuinely pure motives or potentially redeeming qualities? No. They all believed they had good intentions and they all had so many poignant moments of great bravery, idealism, kindness, idealism, and optimism. Unfortunately, they all failed and got dealt consequences that were far worse than they deserved because their fear of honestly and openly taking more risks to face any sort of potential conflict or threat to their beliefs, family, lives, or lifestyle from the outside consumed them more often than not until it was too late.

If you guys want to comment, you can!

@tragicfantasy-girl

@mynameisanakin

@fanfic-lover-girl

@fanfictasia 

@praetor-canis

@an-angels-fury

#Star Wars anon #star wars asks #obi wan kenobi critical #anti yoda #anakin skywalker #darth vader #padme amidala #anidala #pt Jedi critical #the only way that obi wan was at all supportive of anidala was by keeping their relationship secret #otherwise he constantly criticized Anakin for having feelings for Padme and pressured him to choose beteeen Padme and the order all the tim #TCW made it worse by giving him Satine as a love interest that he felt conflicted about leaving the Jedi for #only to have him cold and unempathetically criticize and pressure Anakin over choosing between Padme and the Jedi order #just because I’m critical of them it does not mean I think they deserved mass murder or order 66 #however so many people in the world these days that victim who deserved better does not automatically excuse them for also being assholes

[loth-creatures]

Hate that the Ahsoka show is just good enough that I'm enjoying it immensely so far but I still have so many fundamental misgivings and resentments about it and its too deeply flawed to even truly give the benefit of the doubt. I'm reserving full judgment until I've watched the entire thing twice but I'm also beating back my excitement with a stick so the inevitable disappointment doesn't hurt as much.

Why can't star wars just be good

#ahsoka series #eel thoughts

[thechaoticfanartist]

Better Off Without You

Grim considered the new Jedi Temple home, but Ahsoka’s ship had also become one. She hadn’t understood why her wife didn’t want to live with her at the Temple, but she accepted her choice. It made Grim’s easier.

She is with Ahsoka now. They were seated and drinking some tea. “What was it you wanted to talk about?” Ahsoka asked.

Grim sighed deeply and closed her eyes. How was she supposed to say this to her? She was the only person who knew her as she had been and was now. At least alive. “It’s hard to say this.”

“To say what?”

“I want a divorce.”

“What? Why?” Ahsoka didn’t understand. They had been together for decades - since they were teenagers. Yes they had split up when she had left the Order - and it had taken years to find each other following Order 66, but even so…

“I love you, and have tried to be understanding with you. I know you felt hurt by the Jedi when you left, but that was nearly thirty years ago, I would think - and I hope you have moved on from that. You distance yourself from the Jedi more and more, you won’t even stay at the Temple - and I’m okay with that. You’re allowed to not be a Jedi, I love you regardless.

But the way you’ve been against the Jedi hurts me, and now it sounds like you blame the Jedi for our fall. I can’t be with you if that’s how you truly think of them. I sacrificed everything for them. I gave up my entire universe, my life, for them. If you truly think they’re to blame for their own destruction, then it means I am also partly to blame. It means that everything I gave, everything I sacrificed, everything I lost was for nothing. And in a way - I am part of why the Order fell. I can’t be with you if that’s really what you believe.”

Ahsoka looked her up and down and crossed her arms, leaning back in her chair. “Maybe you are to blame for Order 66. You knew everything and never told anyone,” she said coolly. She didn’t seem hurt by Grim’s words at all.

Grim however was deeply wounded by her’s. Tears filled her eyes. “And I’ve never forgiven myself for that. That’s why I’m rebuilding it, to atone for my mistakes.”

“Perhaps it was the Jedi itself that were the mistake.”

“You don’t mean that. You were raised as one - I only got to know the Order for three years - and in that time it was The Clone Wars. Not the Jedi you knew.”

“The Jedi I knew betrayed me.”

“No, Ash. A Jedi betrayed you. Two, if you want to count Anakin. But the Jedi as a whole never did. The Council never did.”

“You idolize the Order.”

“No one else will.”

“They were flawed.”

“We all are.”

Ahsoka went quiet. “Leave,” she said at last. “And I agree, we need a divorce.”

Tag List (let me know if you want to be added or removed) : @padme--amygdala @soclonely @mrfandomwars @jgvfhl @starlonkedd @milfspectre1 @togrutanduin @jedi-valjean @one-real-imonkey @traygaming @aiylasdrawings @keoxus  @dykerebel @veiled-in-stars @sentineljedi @spicysucculentz @amelia-song-pond @it-was-rose @saturnsokas @thejediprincessqueenofnaboo @veradragonjedi @arrthurpendragon @shrinkthisviolet

#grim kennet #star wars #my oc #star wars oc #jedi oc #ahsoka tano #grimsoka #grimsoka divorce arc #my writing #star wars fanfiction #star wars fanfic #they ruined ahsoka's character in the show and grim would not love this woman anymore sorry

[mallwalker]

fuck it's like . actually really good so far. insane feeling remembering when the show was announced and thinking maybe if we're REALLY lucky we MIGHT see sabine............ and now shes the protagonist of the show. what!!!! i actually really really love the ahsoka sabine dynamic i was a little skeptical when i heard about sabine being ahsoka's apprentice but i seriously cannot believe theyre actually portraying adult ahsoka tano as a deeply flawed and stubborn and kind of selfish and cruel person you have no idea how much of a leap this is and i appreciate it SO MUCH. obv theres always fanservicey cameos (jai kell and ryder azadi being the obvious ones so far) but given that this is a direct sequel to rebels i actually dont mind it at all, it gives you the sense of this being a continuing story with aging characters (as opposed to cameos in mando which just make it feel like the smallest galaxy where everyone knows each other). um anyway i was always gonna like this show no matter how much it sucked but im so so happy with what it is so far. if thats not barriss i will seriously be shocked

#charlie dot txt #Also whoa q tran jumpscare in the credits #ahsoka spoilers

[merrysithmas]

I loved your post talking about what great teacher Anakin actually was to Ahsoka. Since totj came out I’ve seen people talking about what a terrible teacher he was because he turned up late to Ahsoka’s (his only student) test. Which I feel like misses so much of the point. This was also clearly still early on in their relationship so they definitely still had to figure out how the whole thing worked. While I do think he should have been on time to say he was a terrible teacher just seems a bit much.

Also, I feel like the trailer made it seem like his Dark Side was slipping through while the show made it seem like he was upset with the training the Jedi were giving, and that he found it inadequate. Which isn’t wrong. It seemed like Anakin very clearly saw the flaws of their training and how it related to the situations Ahsoka was headed towards.

Anakin was late to her test because, in the text of the episode, he personally felt the test was not only meaningless but singlehandedly preparing the student he deeply loved for a fast-tracked death on the field of a war he'd already been fighting for years.

Something Ahsoka herself understood by the end of the ep - and an incredibly valuable lesson Anakin also taught her by proxy:

If you're being tested to succeed at false goalposts, then you're failing anyway.

#ask #anon #sw asks #snips&skyguy #anakin skywalker #ahsoka tano #thank you for this ask!! #dont be shading snips n skyguy THE most functional master-padawan duo in all of sw #and in the context what actually happened he was 100% right that the test waa meaningless taking into account the ep padawan lost and #the finale #anakin would have contributed soooo much to the order had they heard him out instead of fearing him SO much

[nymph1e]

Wow Luke "my attachments to my friends and family saved the entire fucking galaxy" Skywalker and Ahsoka "I was treated so poorly by the jedi order that I realised it was deeply flawed and could not continue my association with them" Tano really decided to stick with the obviously warped ideology of the past jedi, eh?

And then Luke gave a fucking toddler an "abide by my rules or get out" ultimatum and stuck with it.

What pisses me off is that this is clearly all done to align with the goddamn stupid fucking sequels. I HAD been hoping they'd at least ignore them a little. But no, all the character assassination bullshit has not only followed through, buy caught up to Ahsoka now as well as Luke.

#the book of boba fett #luke skywalker #THEY ARE DOING MY BOY SO DIRTY #this is such bad storytelling #its so lazy #they wanted grogu back with din for season 3 because he is a money machine #and instead of creating a nuanced story around it #they just hamfisted ooc BULL #i am so mad rn #if you defend lukes characterisation in the sequels i would say go watch the ot again #because i used to defend it then i rewatched the ot for the first time in years and remembered that #oh yeah #luke really did just put the whole galaxy on the line because he believed that genocidal child murdering darth vader could be good again #all because he was lukes father and was good once #my boy saw a literal monster and went #no he can still be good i know it #but you expect me to believe my boy would have doubts over his own nephew for a FRACTION of a second? #i can understand luke cutting himself off from the force and deciding the jedi should end after his pupils die #I CAN'T accept everything that leads to that happening #because it is all so ENORMOUSLY out of character its laughable #i blame the force awakens #that movie was terrible set up #anyway im angry