Chloe & Heroism
Chloe Bourgeois as a hero early on is a premise that often evokes either questions, like "How" and "Why". Or expectations that she is either already on a path to self improvement, or will be forced onto within a short timeframe.
These are not bad questions and the former definitely are necessary to consider for a story. However the expectations I tend to feel a bit murkier and while I have no issue with how some authors handle this topic.
I want to outline why I think you could do a good "Hero Chloe" story before she gets character development, but first, house cleaning!
1: I have not watched and largely ignore everything post season 3, so don't bother bringing up Derision. Remember, season 1 Kim was afraid of spiders.
2: In canon. Chloe only revealed her ID publicly because her abusive mother she is obsessed with pleasing (who killed her the day before) chose a girl other than her to take to New York & then tore her to shreds in front of everyone.
With all that in mind let's examine where Chloe's values and understanding of the world comes from and how she perceives them!
1 - Media/Social Media
This would be a mixed bag, because on one hand they have Mighty Majesta comics that try to instill good values, but also shows built around lying to and humiliating people are evidently popular television and the internet seems similar in regards to pranking VS trying not to be terrible. So she's gonna get mixed signals at best.
2 - Her family & Circle
This is where 90% of the problems come from. Of the important adults in her life, her father, mother, Gabriel and Nathalie are all varying shades of corrupt, abusive, cruel and ruthless, while the lesser evils like Jean and Emilie are largely consigned to the role of enablers.
Worse still, even if we ignore the emotional abuse, neglect and other elements that led to her both having trauma and her trauma response manifesting in aggression. We still have issues like Andre, during the brief periods he bothered to parent, explicitly teaching Chloe that, Stealing, extortion and threats are all appropriate ways to succeed in life.
IE, she isn't compromising her morality when she does these things, she is very much doing what she is taught was right at least consciously. This isn't helped by a 24/7 Audrey impression as Audrey deems being in her vicinity as reason enough to hurt people unless she deems them useful.
Long story short, the values and people she was brought up around are all explicitly some shade of bad, or enabler, or outright teaching her to harm others.
3 - Societies & Class
However, we know from season 2 that Chloe is not entirely unaware that there are issues with this. Because while she spends much time boasting of how she's beloved and brilliant, when stripped of that and exposed to someone she trusts she is entirely willing to confess that she knows everyone hates her and that she feels she has no worth. She may not be able to articulate why or how this came about but she knows something is wrong.
Despite this, school is not the best place to figure this out, especially for someone who obviously struggles with social cues and the like. The teachers run the gamut from indifferent and unpleasant, to extremely gentle and accommodating, to simply not wanting any form of drama and usually caving to whoever makes the most noise and none of them have the authority to do much outside of class hours.
The class is not significantly better, because students like Kim and Alix can and do casually throw around snark or do pranks and at worst only get brief bursts of anger while Chloe's garner a more intense response. This is because her relationship with the class and motives are varying shades of different, but for someone with issues reading social cues, it's just going to seem like a confusing double standard.
We can also see all this demonstrated in her relationship with Adrien, as Chloe clearly takes the lead in their relationship in Origins and outlines her logic behind the pranks, but is then surprised when Adrien seems to turn against her. What's more, it seems Chloe is aware that Adrien is more gentle/naive than her given she tried to educate him on these matters & turns to him for comfort and protection at times, while seeing no inherent contradiction between her expectations for their relationship and how she treats others.
Adrien does not help matters with seeming indifference to how she treats staff.
Thus, while she knows 'something' is terribly wrong, actually being able to understand it and work through it is another matter.
4 - Chloe's Conclusion
So, what is the conclusion Chloe comes to in order to square all of these circles when she isn't just in full denial mode? The answer is quite simple and even demonstrated in the show itself, playing one's role.
IE, Chloe the mayor and style queen's daughter is different to Chloe the hotel owner's daughter and we see this in her being able to stamp down on her usual instincts and slap on a customer service role when Jagged Stone enters the hotel and guide her father into doing the same. VS how she conducts herself during a class election, IE explicitly threatening and extorting people, to how she conducts herself day by day with her Audrey impersonation.
A separate example and way she'd view this for others would be that Marinette the baker's daughter of course has to be nice and sweet and giving because that is how customer service roles work, while Marinette the aspiring fashion designer or would be class president is sneakier and will lay traps so people trying to steal from her are sabotaged. This isn't wrong, this is how she expects people to behave when in these circumstances and roles.
Final Conclusion
Which is why Chloe could easily play the role of a successful hero, because she would not be "Chloe Bourgeois, mayor's daughter, hotel heiress and Style Queen's daughter" as Queen Bee, she would just be Queen Bee, a superhero.
They have wonderfully defined roles that would be easy for her to pick up & follow through on: assure the public, save people from danger, protect allies, defeat monsters, all things Chloe was shown doing very well when chosen as a Miraculous Holder.
I think that eventually the contrast in how she is received as Queen Bee VS Chloe Bourgeois would start grinding on each other and bleeding through both sides of the mask.
But the infectious nature of empathy and a larger support network that don't have the worst impression of her would give Chloe the room she needs to explore and grow.
If she is too snippy as a hero, or shows a ruthless side, these won't be taken in the context of "Chloe that person I dislike" but "Queen Bee my ally" and can allow for more honest and even handed reactions that give her the necessary breathing room to grow and change.
So yeah, I think season 1 Chloe could have, under the right circumstances, done a great job as a hero be it Queen Bee or another hero even before any outside circumstances or internal changes might have forced her to chart a new course in life.
Provided the role of Chloe and the role of hero do not intersect and become one almost immediately, because in that case it gets a lot harder for her.
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Live-Read: The Remington Comic [PART 3]
TOME 12
What is this... thing?
This is some very strange magic. We need to have a closer look.
Do you really think you can escape that easily? Admit that... it's not like you can escape down there easy and avoid all the traps.
Joris's first reaction to this is literally "i NEED to know what the fuck that is. and if i have to take these two injured people there, so be it."
Also, yes, Ush's tower has a lot of traps. Love how Joris went up here with no plan of how to go down. I guess he really believes in his luck... just like an ecaflip.
When I saw a little guy climb the wall, I was… stunned. But to leave this place with a wounded man and a battered eniripsa, that's another matter.
I know, but what do you propose? To fight? You saw me come in, and you didn't raise the alarm, which is quite unusual…
I can still do it.
Getting out of here before everything collapses would be better… for all of us.
Obviously, the urgency of the situation benefits you. But we'll deal with that later. Just follow me!
"if you wanted to beat the shit out of me, you would have done it already." Never change, Joris.
These panels go out to my Ush enjoyer readers. Also: this comic takes place around 2 years before Wakfu the Animated Series. Ush is 7-9yo at best by the time of the OVA, and 10 by seasons 3-4. This might point to the fact that Ecaflip demigods age faster on their next lives.
That, or it might point to Ankama not giving a shit.
But he does look like a (tall) child in the OVA, and like a teen by time of S3-4
He has his muscular years in the future. Also I guess his cat lovers don't give a shit, but eh, there's bigger ethical concerns about their relationship than the age of his physical body.
Anyway, now onto what is the most important Joris moment of this comic, to me:
We must hurry. A terrible danger threatens bonta.
It can't be worse than letting you escape.
Yeah, sure, lady. Joris and 2 criminals are a bigger danger to Bonta than a giant kaiju. Now, read closely, because this moment here has some fascinating Joris lines:
If Ush scares you so much, maybe it's time to run away with us.
Yeah… no. It's not that simple.
You're in love with him. That's why you can't leave your master.
What?! No… but… you're crazy!
It's okay to be in love.
But I'm not in love with him!
(putting on tinfoil hat) Geez Joris, it almost sounds like you yourself have ecaflip issues. Like you've been unable to leave someone for centuries because you love someone too much, despite their flaws, and the way they may have hurt you. It almost sounds like you made peace with that. "It's okay to be in love", huh?
Context for the next scenes: After some time, they try to kill the kaiju, but it backfires, and Ush gets hurt instead.
nothing will stop it now… let's run.
Opus, you're an eniripsa. Save him.
Yes… Have mercy… Save him!
After all the harm he's done me? What's the point?
Please…
A restorative word should give him back some energy… but I doubt he'll escape unscathed.
Beating heart… You were right here.
It's the best I can do… he'll last a few hours, but he'll… die of his burns.
So maybe it's time for beating heart to be used.
Joris's expressions here are so beautiful... He doesn't seem too bothered by seeing Ush's burned, dying body. It's pretty funny.
You can wear Beating Heart around your neck, and it will give you all which you desire the most.
Ahh… everything… that I desire?
Or you can use it to annihilate this monster. If it swallows this object… then the power of it should stop it.
I can do that, I'd rather die in glory than live through a defeat. I'm going to save Bonta! and nothing can stop me now, not even death.
beating heart… beating heart… out of sight… out of mind… will you give your soul the time?
beating heart… beating heart… will you give your time the soul?
Ush... No...
@dullard and I have talked a lot about the relationship between Ush and Joris, despite how little of it is shown. (he is the Ush enjoyers I was mentioning. all the Ush screencaps are meant for him. hi.)
In those convos we came to the next thoughts: Ush probably views Joris as Kerubim's weird little son, or Kerubim and Atcham's pet. But also, despite Ush viewing Joris in a bit of a low light, he is much smarter and cooler than Kerubim and Atcham — truly the best thing to come from his cringe brothers. He likes toying with him more than he likes toying with Kerubim and Atcham — because Joris doesn't react easily, which makes his reactions more satisfying.
Despite that, they both care for Bonta, and being "a good person", in their own unique ways. So, it is easy for them to put aside their differences, for the most part.
I personally find it fascinating how subtle Joris is about suggesting Ush to sacrifice himself. As subtle as a wrecking ball.
You should never have stolen it from me.
Yes… but thanks to us, it was used to save Bonta.
And me… who will save me from the curse now that Ush is gone?
You must seek the wisdom that remains in you, not the instinct that dominates you. this wisdom will one day overcome your curse.
[always sunny in philadelphia music begins playing] Grany stays a cat for at least the next 10 years, maybe longer, maybe forever.
...Joris has too much hope in these two.
Also, small personal comment: Joris is so pretty on the second image... Very cute head shape. You can just see his baby-ish cheeks, lmaoo.
Beating heart, beating heart… erase the weapons, bide your time.
This is like a renaissance painting. Some guys celebrating. Grany disgusted by Remington making out with his Opus (who seems to have left him by Wakfu series' time LMAOO), somewhere off-screen, there's a crying woman because Ush is fucking dead and Joris didn't bother telling her something like "Don't worry he'll remember you. Dying isn't much of an issue for him." Instead, Joris is going away, hands behind his back, reciting poetry again.
Beautiful.
Yes, master... Your meal just arrived. Nine lives...
And I remain as devoted as ever to each of your reincarnations.
You need a new name for this new life.
(Hoping he won't be as bad-tempered as before.)
Bad news, bestie: he will be. His previous deaths hadn't fixed this either.
Tell me, young lady... You seem very sad.
Oh... it's a long story.
A love story?
Great stories... are always love stories.
I kind of hate Joris for giving her the wonderful idea of wasting her mortal life on some immortal guy who might never love her back. But also. He did give advice based on first-hand experience. To him, spending your entire life with a demigod is both noble and awesome and fulfilling.
Except that's his family, he's also immortal like his family, and he kind of hates everyone else in the world who ISN'T his family, so I'll be real, I think he's biased.
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I might as well ask you this because I enjoy your writing and way of expressing your opinions. Why do you personally ship Sonamy? What got you into Sonamy? What’s your favorite moment between the two? I know this is a very common question, but I hope you don’t mind me asking. 😅
Oh, this ought to be fun XD I don't mind at all. Send all the asks you like, I like to talk about my interests. I tend to ramble, so excuse my long texts. Gonna insert a break line so I don't torture my followers (that sentence makes it sound like I'm running a cult.)
Why do you personally ship Sonamy? What got you into Sonamy?
These two are connected, so it's fair to answer them both in one go. I'm very new to the fandom, unlike most of the people I've met who've been here for as long as they can remember. I originally had no interest in the franchise. Yeah, I played some games and watched the anime a few years back and had some cheap plastic toys from fast-food kiddie meals, but the franchise never stuck with me back then.
I got reintroduced through Sonic Prime around last year, which led to me reading the IDW comics, which is where I started getting into SonAmy. I really liked Amy in particular; surprising, seeing as she hadn't been my favorite character as a child. I liked Tails and Silver more back then, but the comic solidified Amy as my number one. In every fandom I've been in (HTTYD, MHA) I almost always gravitate toward characters who embody love, and that's the core of Amy.
Sonic was harder for me to decipher at first, seeing as he's more of a person who shows his emotions through action rather than words (in some iterations, at least.) But seeing him be more receptive in the comics and treating her better in more recent media portrayals piqued my interest because this wasn't how I remembered these two from when I was a kid. Seeing the progression from how their dynamic started to how it became made me feel proud of them.
And I'm one of those who likes to hypothesize that their affection used to be more one-sided but became mutual over time. Things change. Feelings change. People change. And I love that.
What’s your favorite moment between the two?
This. I think this is when I started seeing the ship as something I'd like. I've inserted the second panel as well because, while I know the first one is a no-brainer for some SonAmy shippers, I don't see many of them bringing up the follow-up panel.
Before this scene, Sonic kept rejecting Amy's proposal to go back to the Resistance with her (he had his reasons, as he saw investigating the circumstances of Eggman's absence and the waves of Badniks as a higher priority. Get to the snake's head to find the root of the problem.) He was in a hurry to get going. It wasn't until Amy told him she loved him for who he was and that she didn't want to change him that he stopped, got a little flustered, and proposed she come with him instead.
And she declined. She, too, had priorities.
Before this moment, it was possible he didn't see having both Amy and his stubborn way of doing things his way possible, but after, it might've finally clicked in his head that, Oh wait, I can have both? He's asked Amy to come along with him for other adventures afterward.
Also, can I just say how much I appreciate Sonic (who has a history of being touch averse) being more welcoming to her affection? Cause I do.
Okay, switching to Frontiers:
This scene is mostly quiet (I like nonverbal communication in general) and I found it too adorable to not mention. It's just for a few seconds, but the way Sonic does a little giddy skip when she waves him over, and the the fact that he just smiled so innocently the whole time he made his way over is just pure sweetness.
This short little misunderstanding/confrontation. This one's just plain fun for me. Sonic's impatience and inability to articulate his reasoning leads to him sounding like he's abandoning the Koco Amy really wants to help. She's putting the Koco before herself when Sonic's just worried about her. As soon as the misunderstanding is cleared up, Amy calms down, seeing it from his point of view now. It's a subtle little exchange, but knowing how these two used to not be great at communication in past games, and seeing them now deescalate a little misunderstanding this calmly brings me joy.
With each Koco the characters help, there's a certain theme associated between the Koco and Sonic's friends. The inventor Koco and Tails, trying to be of use to others; the soldier Kocos and Knuckles, both who had their people wiped out. For Amy, the Koco (the only Koco who goes by they/them, so that's what I'll be using for them here) is trying to reunite with their lover who had gone into battle. Throughout the game, Amy in her ghostly form can't touch anyone, and she expresses symptoms of dissociation, of feeling 'detached', that she's flying in a dream, but she wishes to just land.
Remember, Amy is a physically affectionate person, but she can't do much of anything, let alone feel anyone, in this situation. She has to leave it to her love, Sonic, to go into battles. She knows all too well how the Koco was feeling, being separated from their lover. When Amy and Sonic watch the Koco reunite with their partner for the last time, it hits Amy hard, and Sonic knows how affected she is by this. He gives her some time to grieve because he knows her well enough to understand this hit her hard. He tells her, "They're together now." And that's all that matters. And I love that scene. It's so mild compared to what others in the community might bring up, but I'm a sucker for the quieter moments like this.
I have to stop myself now before this turns into a novel lol
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as someone who knows nothing about dc/batfam besides bare basics where do I even start with the comics? please send help its so confusing and sm to go through 😭🧎♀️
help has arrived!! my sincerest apologies for the delay, i started writing and somehow 2.5 days had passed.
full transparency, for a second i was like, "oh idk if i'm the best person to ask, i haven't been reading comics for years" and then i realized i figured my way into comics with like essentially zero prior experience so maybe i am uniquely qualified to help! that being said, if this doesn't work or you see a post from a comic veteran that looks more helpful, by all means ignore me.
first things first- it is super confusing!! there's all these big events, DC is obsessed with the word "Crisis", some labels are mainline and others aren't- don't worry about any of that. ignore the vast forest that is Comics and focus on one tree.
and by that i mean, pick one character to start with.
this post ended up turning into a behemoth when i wasn't looking so everything else is going to go under the cut!
alright, now that you have your character of choice, it's time to choose which era of comics you want to start in. there are basically 4 different eras, and you may have heard their names tossed around.
PRE-CRISIS: this is where Comics begin. this era covers comics from when they began being published up until 1985. most of this is no longer canon, but like when they hit the reboot button in '85, they didn't restart from the very beginning. so like, 90% of robin!dick comics is Pre-Crisis. some comics kept a few Pre-Crisis storylines canon, like The New Teen Titans starts before the reboot, but the pre-boot storylines are still canon. i personally have not read very many Pre-Crisis comics, i cherry-picked what looked interesting to me. unless you want to like dive in chronologically and begin at the Beginning, i wouldn't recommend hopping in here bc you'll probably get super fatigued, but yk, it is ultimately up to you. most important takeaway here is that whenever people mention Pre-Crisis, they mean old comics.
POST-CRISIS: 1985-2011. this is where most comics veterans started reading comics/what they grew up with. these are the comics that a decent amount of current comics writers/artists grew up reading/what got them into comics. there is a lot of love + nostalgia for this era, with good reason!! i do think some people who favor this era have a tendency to be close-minded in regards to current comics but re:nostalgia and there have been some dumb decisions so i get it!
NEW 52: aka, Post-Flashpoint, N52. 2011-2016 dc gets new management. they more or less decided to toss all pre-existing canon out the window and re-start in the middle. honestly, it was like they just started making fanfiction. and i don't mean that negatively, i mean like, even though they "restarted" and "anyone" should be able to jump in on an #1 in n52...the comics still assumed you had some working knowledge about the characters. which. i mean, i understand that a total restart was not plausible, (lmao imagine just snapping the vast majority of characters out of existence. they did snap some but like, a full restart would have axed even Dick technically.) i started reading comics here bc when i asked my brother-in-law (who grew up reading comics, with a dad who grew up reading comics), he was like, "omg!! start here, it'll be perfect!!" and i was like "okay!!" and then...i found myself googling. a lot. which is fine!! but idk maybe not as beginner-friendly as advertised? also, notice how this era only lasts for 4 years. it's not that none of it is relevant now, but it was a) not very well received, and b) while some of it is def still canon/referenced, a lot of it contradicts with Post-Crisis, and our fourth and final era reboots so that most of Post-Crisis is canon again. you will see a lot of hatred/dislike for comics in this era/concepts introduced here.
REBIRTH: 2016-present day. DC decided to rollback their extreme changes and soft-reboot to basically try and meld Post-Crisis and N52 timelines/continuities into one cohesive continuity. which. is a lil like trying to mix oil and water, but it is an improvement imo. all the runs restart at #1.
other people might disagree with me, but i honestly don't think it matters which era you start with. unless you start from the very beginning, you're going to have some questions. if you start in Post-Crisis, you're going to have questions when you get to N52/Rebirth, and vice-versa. and that's okay!! don't be ever be embarrased/discouraged because you have a question. google is your friend. also, odds are, if you end up enjoying comics, you'll read from all the eras. timelines will always be confusing. if you read arcs/events out of order, you'll sort stuff out. as long as you're reading what sounds interesting, you can't really go wrong. you might laugh at your decisions later, but that's okay!!
for example, personal experience, this was my intro reading order: N52 Nightwing, A Death in the Family (Post-Crisis), Under the Red Hood (Post-Crisis), Joker War (Rebirth), Robin 1994 (Post-Crisis) until like issue #11?, Rebirth Nightwing to most current release, back to Robin 1994.
clearly, I had no clue what the hell i was doing from one perspective. but in the moment, i was having a grand ole time. i read N52 Nightwing, had my mind blown at the existence of FOUR Robins, couldn't believe they KILLED one, had to see that for myself, then i had to see how his return played out, and when I was buying the UTRH trade the Joker War trade had a lil rec note from an employee, i flipped through it, thought the art was sick, was confused AF when i read it but googled for some clarity and just rolled it with it, thought Tim was neat, decided to check him out, had a rough time adjusting to the older art style, bounced back to modern comics with Dick, and then ultimately decided I could handle the art change (which, ngl, very useful skill for comics reading) and the rest is history.
even once i got more well-versed in comics, sometimes i knowingly read out of order because i just wanted to see a specific event and didn't feel like reading a ton of comics to get there. legit, read City of Bane, did not understand why Dick was not there but just accepted it and then months later was like OH!! HE WAS RIC THEN.
point is, if you're having fun, you're not making mistakes imo. am i going to recommend anyone follow my initial reading path to the T? no way!! but it worked for me.
but okay! so now, you've got your character and your era, and surprisingly the rest is really simple!! i have compiled a list for you that attempts to cover the trickier batfam entry points, but for almost any character the hopping on point is literally whichever run they're lead in: #1. for some, as you'll see with Batman, it won't be #1 in Post-Crisis but you can google, "where to start reading Action Comics Post-Crisis" and there you go. If there is a #0 issue, I would personally not recommend starting there, I would still start with #1 and then read the #0 issue when it would've come out, so like if it came out after #10, read it then. oh also, i'm sorry, i cannot offer personalized help with Barbara Gordon/Babs/Batgirl No. 1/Oracle, as of rn, i have only read her when she shows up in events/other people's runs. my best guess would be Batgirl/Bird of Prey.
now, before we get to the lists, may i present you with
MISCELLANEOUS ADVICE
there are a handful of mindsets that i think will be super helpful for breaking into comics, but the most important, especially starting out, is to make sure you're reading what interests you and that you're having fun. you can worry about slogging through significant runs later, once you've cut your teeth a bit, or never.
i would honestly ignore "best of/top rec" lists. most of those are made up of comics that hit bc they're building on a foundation. if you're brand-new, you don't have a foundation. focus on that first, rather than reading the "right" runs. comic readers, veterans and casuals and newbies- they do not all agree on what the "right" runs are. and that's bc there are so many different writers/artists. bookmark these for later, when you feel more solid in your understanding of the character and maybe want to experiment.
characters, imo, can totally be written OOC. but one of the really beautiful things about comics in my experience is that getting to see characters written by different writers really adds so much depth and dimension to them, bc diff writers are going to have different angles they want to explore. will you like all these different angles? probably not! but that's okay. you'll develop your own taste for which stories you like/what takes resonate with you the most. sometimes you might find yourself in agreement with the popular opinion, other times you might find that you loved something it seems a lot of people hate. great! there is no test, you'll like what you like and that will be perfectly valid even if no else agrees.
with that in mind, be open-minded. adjusting to older art styles can be really hard! that's totally valid! but if you try it out here and there, you'll probably be able to get used to it. you're not always going to love the art in any era. sometimes not even in the same run. i think acknowledging that you dislike it is better than trying to force yourself to like it. my rule of thumb was, if i didn't like the art style, give it 3 comics. bc by then, i'd either adjust to it (which is not the same as liking it)/or get sucked into the story and not care so much, or i would know, yeah this really isn't working for me. and then i had a decision to make: power through or drop it. sometimes you can knuckle down. other times, i've found that giving myself a break and returning to a difficult comic once i've recharged is better.
mostly the same advice for writers. although, i have learned that just because i dislike an author in X run, doesn't mean i'll dislike them in Y run, or even in the next arc they write in X run. as you go through comics, keep in mind that most storylines within a run are six issue arcs. if you're not vibing with the current arc, try skipping ahead to the next one. skimming is okay. obvs, yk, don't skim every comic you read, but if you find yourself not super interested, but feeling like there's some important stuff so you don't want to have to backtrack later, skim. again, the goal is to have fun!
other things that might trip you up-
terminology: wtf is a volume anyways?
i'm so glad you asked!! answer: it depends. so okay, if like you google a reading order list, you might see Batman (Vol. 1) #1-100, or something like that. in this case a volume is a whole entire run from start to finish. Batman Vol 1, in this example, would be synonymous with Batman (1937-2011), which includes both Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis.
however, if you're looking at collected editions, or trades, a volume will be more like a volume of manga, where volume refers to that set of issues.
trades: this is when the publisher collects a run or event into a book that would be sold somewhere like Barnes & Noble, it can be hardback or paperback. single issues are not trades.
events: these are crossover storylines! sometimes they cross houses, so you could have issues from Batman and say, Green Lantern, but usually they're contained within a house. events that effect the whole universe are usually their own "run", like Infinite Crisis had tie-in issues from most (all) on-goings, but the core issues were Infinite Crisis #1, and so on. they range widely in scale, clearly.
on-goings: can refer to currently running comics, for example rn, Zdarsky's Batman and Tom Taylor's Nightwing are on-goings. Jason and Tim are not leading any on-goings rn. or, it can be used to refer to comics that were on-going at the time of whatever is being discussed.
variant: this has nothing to do with the comics content itself, it relates purely to the covers. most current comics have their standard cover, and then a variant or two or four. any ratio, so for instance 1:25 variant, just means that for every 25 standard copies, there is 1 of that variant. that kind of variant is usually a store incentive, so that they'll buy a certain amount of copies to sell. not all variants are rare though!
facsimile: this is when they reprint an old comic. not as a trade, just as single issue.
black label/elseworld: these are comics that are published by DC, but not part of the mainline comics' canon continuity. sometimes they'll sort of fold in black label stuff, but like, it's essentially licensed fanfic.
events: ahh!! the last page says the story continues in a different run!!
2 options:
1) ignore it, stay in your run. there'll be a couple gaps but you'll live, and google is free.
2) google "event-name-here reading order". this will give you lists that will tell you which comics to read in which order. sometimes the order they came out in is not the best reading order. some events flow better than others. also, there will be "core" issues and "tie-ins". core issues are the Main Storyline, not skippable, (if you don't want to be confused). tie-ins are character-specific, so important for that character but if you don't care about them, those issues will be skippable.
there is no wrong choice. you can change your mind, decide you want to read the event, or lose interest in the event and stick with your current run.
concurrent runs: what should you do if there are multiple runs you want to read that came out at the same time while they were being published?
again, two options.
1) read them in the order they were released. the easiest way to do this is to read month by month, so read all the issues that came out in May of X year, then June, so forth. you'll basically be simulating keeping up with current comics as they release.
2) pick a title, read it to the end, start the next one. this will have you essentially cycling through the same period from start to finish a few times, but honestly there's a lot going on in comics and outside of events where they cross-over, there isn't too much overlap, so it doesn't feel super repetitive. at least to me. plus, if you've read the event, you don't need to re-read it every time you hit it, imo. this is how i do it actually. i mean, current comics, i read the runs i'm following as they release, but for backlog, i stick to one title at a time. if i'm feeling fancy, i might read one run up to a certain point, then switch titles, then switch back, but i am max switching between 2. an example of this is actually what i'm doing rn. i read batgirl 2000 up to issue #11 (or 12?) and then switched to Batman: Gotham Knights, which is what I'm currently reading. why? B:GK starts after B2000, and i couldn't pick, so i split the difference and went semi-chronological.
finally, there's no pressure. by which i mean, you don't need to speed run. especially if you don't have a ton of free time, don't worry about being the most efficient reader, always reading runs that'll give you the most bang for your buck according to other people, etc. i mean also, there is just. so. much. content. you cannot sprint your way through, this is a marathon at best, a leisurely jog, ideally.
looking at the sheer amount of content out there was super overwhelming to me, even though i wanted to read it. it's not a quick task, so it felt impossible. like even if i finished one run, well, that was just a drop in the bucket, i'd made barely any progress in the grand scheme of things. that was paralyzing.
i ended up mocking up a list for myself of what i thought of as "key" runs. this was still an ambitious list, but like tailored to my interests. as i read/saw posts, if a title not on this list sounded interesting, i stuck it on my tbrl list. (to be read later). that was essentially me going, 'hey, this looks interesting, but my plate is full rn, so i'll save it for later.' i didn't add runs from my tbrl to my key list as i went, i focused on working through my keys first.
within my keys, i just bounced all over the place. the order made sense to me, lmao, and probably no one else. it was a very loose, "follow this character chronologically". except for dick i read him all wonky, mainly bc i started with N52, skipped some N52 to get to Rebirth, skipped some Rebirth (*cough* Ric era *cough*), switched characters, then came back to Dick, bounced to NTT, practically bounced right back off it bc the transistion from modern to 80's comic was ROUGH, went and Grayson (N52), forced myself to adjust to older comics, then went through chronologically until i hit dick!bats era bc i'd read a solid chunk of it between reading for Tim and Damian. i share all this only to say, you can read however, it'll work out.
if you're curious, it took me six months to read my whole "key" list. almost to the day, funnily enough. i don't remember the exact number, but i think it was like north of 700+ comics at least? tbh, i didn't feel like i'd read all that many comics but based off some conversations i've had, maybe it is? i have no frame of reference. operating under the assumption that that is a lot of comics, i feel like it's important that you know a) i have a ton of free time, and b) i read very fast.
set zero expectations for yourself time-wise. it's not a race, no one is judging you. don't be an idiot like me and try to calculate how long it will take you to read X amount of comics either, okay HAHA. context: when i started Robin 1993, the fact that it was 195 issues was massively intimidating. the longest run i'd read so far was 30. i averaged out my comics per day, lowballed to give myself breathing room and nearly cried bc it was going to take me 20 days (3 whole weeks!!!) to read the whole thing and that felt like an eternity. i ended up reading it in 5 days. (i was HOOKED.) on the complete opposite end of things, i started Batman: Gotham Knights...a month ago? maybe two. i'm still on #18, bc life got busy.
bottom line, you've no real idea how long it will take you to read anything, let alone your whole wish list, and it really doesn't matter how long it takes you, as long as, say it with me, you're having fun!!
god i feel annoying.
okie dokie!! i think that covers all the dilemmas i remember having, but if i missed anything, feel free to send in another ask!
BRUCE WAYNE:
Post-Crisis only bc everywhere else is just #1
Batman 1940 #404
Detective Comics 1937 #568.
DICK GRAYSON:
Dick's og robin days are allllll Pre-Crisis. i'm not sure which issues he comes in tbh. if you don't read want to start in Pre-Crisis, (valid, wise imo), most robin!Dick content is going to come from flashback storylines. but there are some robin!Dick comics that are solid, contained stories that are not Pre-crisis. not an exhaustive list but:
Robin: Year One
Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet
Batman- One Bad Day: Mr. Freeze
and then for Dick as Nightwing, it's a lil tricky bc technically that starts in The New Teen Titans 1980. You could start at #1, or #42, which is the Judas Contract storyline where Nightwing debuts. (The title's name switches to Tales of the Teen Titans, it's the same run.)
However, if you're not interested in reading a team book, valid, then you have:
Nightwing 1995 (technically comes before the main run, this was a 4 issue prequel mini)
Nightwing 1996, start at #1. Now, if you stick with this run, there are 2 stories that are part of it but were done separately as minis so for whatever reason, on DCUI at least, they're not in the order, but you'd read Nightwing/Huntress after Nightwing #18, and then Nightwing: The Target after Nightwing #60 i believe.
Or, Nightwing: Year One. This is part of the Nightwing 1996 run, but has been collected separately, so you could start here, i suppose.
JASON TODD
okay so technically, he does not lead a title until N52. but obvs, he has relevant comics before that.
i would not personally recommend starting with UTRH. like, if that's what you want to read, valid, do what you want. but also, if you're willing to read 9-23 comics beforehand, i truly think you will appreciate/enjoy UTRH way more. bc like they just make the overall drama/angst that much more, yk? like okay if UTRH is chicken breast, you could just cook it as is and eat it. but unseasoned chicken just does not hit the way it could. add a lil salt + pepper, bam, big diff. add some legit seasoning?! now you're cooking. does that make sense?
actually okay hmm. i loathe to be prescriptive and give orders, but here, i'll lay out what i consider to be the Bare Minimum (salt and pepper) + the Crash Course (legit seasoning). no wrong choice!
Bare Minimum (9 Comics before you read UTRH):
A Death in the Family
A Lonely Place of Dying
Crash Course (23 Comics before you read UTRH):
Batman #408- 409
Detective Comics #569-571, 573-574
Batman #416, 424-425
A Death in the Family
New Teen Titans #55
A Lonely Place of Dying
Batman: Gotham Knights #43-45 (45 is the important one imo, but like it will make a lil more sense if you start at 43)
if you want to read the entirety of his og run as Robin, that would be Batman #408-425, and Detective Comics #568-#582. if you want like a whole ass breakdown of all his appearances in chronological order, check this godsend of a resource out.
and again, not to tell you what to do, but New52 Red Hood and the Outlaws is um. i'll be nice. i did not enjoy it. is it worth reading if you love Jason? honestly yeah. but i wouldn't start there, that's all i'm saying.
CASSANDRA CAIN:
Very simple!! She first appears in Batman, during the No Man's Land arc, so her issues there would be Batman #567-569, and then Batgirl 2000.
she gets deleted in the New 52 launch, (boo tomato, tomato), and isn't brought back until Batman and Robin: Eternal. then she co-lead a recent (Rebirth) Batgirls run with Steph. lots going on in B&R:E, would not recommend as a starting point.
TIM DRAKE:
Alright, honestly, with Tim all your best jumping on points are Post-Crisis. N52 Teen Titans is whack, I have yet to revisit it and power through, and if you've seen my other rec list, yk I'm not a fan of any modern runs he's lead, so i cannot in good conscience, rec those as starting points. Detective Comics Rebirth, i've heard, is solid, but a) i still haven't read it yet unfortunately, and b) he like dies. "dies". not very far in. and then, consequentially, is not present for a hot minute. so.
but anyways! you do have options in Post-Crisis!!
A Lonely Place of Dying. his intro!!
his official like debut as Robin is Batman #457, but he is in Batman comics that take place between aLPoD and #457.
Robin 1991. this is the first of 3 mini-series that take place before Tim's main run. i accidentally skipped them bc i didn't know they existed whoops
Robin 1993. his main run! the longest Robin title to run so far.
technically, Young Justice 1998 is also an option, if you're interested in the team. I started reading this after Robin #120, read the whole run, then went back to Robin. see advice on concurrent runs below.
Stephanie Brown:
tbh, not a great starting character. not because she isn't great!! she's just very much so a side character until she gets her own run, Batgirl 2009, but there is so much going on in that time-period (Bruce is dead, Dick is Batman, etc.), that like it's not super beginner friendly imo. and then they delete her when they do New 52, she gets brought back in Batman Eternal if i'm remembering correctly? And then she and Cass lead a recent (Rebirth) Batgirls run.
ik her first appearance is in Batman, although i don't know exactly which issue. she's in Robin 1993 a lot, ofc. she's also in Batgirl 2000 here and there. basically, you'll have to do some hunting and moving around if you just want to follow Steph. i do not know those issues by heart, someone somewhere has probably listed them. re: google is your friend!!
Duke Thomas:
okay so. ik he first appears at some point in the N52 Batman run, don't know the exact issue, but i'm pretty positive it's an event of some kind, could be wrong. then he is the main in a team book, We Are Robin. then i think he's a side character in Batman/Detective Comics mainly? he has a mini-series, Batman and The Signal.
i have not read his first appearance yet, i have read We Are Robin. i hesitate to say that he's not a great character to start with bc i'm pretty sure DC created him to like attract new readers, which should imply that he's a good starting character?? but like stuff is weiiiird where he comes in, Bruce is not Batman bc he doesn't have his memories (idk why yet, haven't read yet), Jim Gordon is Robo-Batman- weird. very confusing place to start, i would imagine. which is a bummer bc like, Duke is fantastic. love him. cannot wait to read more. unfortunately, there are just some characters who's existence necessitates a lot of context. i like to think they're worth the wait, though!
Damian Wayne:
he is the trickiest to hop in on imo, out of the "main" members. he is also a character who's existence necessitates context. you can def crash course him though, to an extent. honestly, with any characters that came in towards the end of Post-Crisis or later, being okay with confusion is like extra important, if you want to start with them.
2/3 of Damian's first 3 major appearances are events. i read Dami later on in my comics journey, so by then i was like, pshh, event nbd. i also read him chronologically, so i could be biased, but i do think that is best. however, yk, go for what interests you.
Post Crisis:
Batman #655-658, then The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul, then Battle for the Cowl.
Batman and Robin: Batman Reborn. Dick!Bats + officially Robin Damian
New 52:
Batman and Robin. He's going to die. He will be resurrected. Then, Robin: Son of Batman.
Rebirth:
Super Sons
Robin
ofc, this doesn't cover everyone, but i hope this is enough to get you started!! i realize that this is long-ass post, i'm sorry i couldn't be more concise. i sincerely hope this was helpful/made stuff less intimidating, and if i failed in that regard, i'm so sorry.
i hope you have so much fun!! my ask box will always be open, and so are my dms if you have any more questions or want to freak out about comics :)
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