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maxwell-grant · 3 years

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So that ask about a Doc Savage/The Shadow crossover (which as an aside, I agree that Doc is probably the worst of the archetype he is functionally the Ur-Example of that isn’t an intentional deconstruction focusing on his worst eugenicist/borderline-fascist aspects to create a villain) has me thinking: what exactly would be the boundaries for a good, well-written crossover between the Shadow and different genres or eras of what we all collectively call pulp? Could someone do a crossover between the Shadow and Indiana Jones that didn’t rely on one or the other being little more than a glorified cameo in a small portion of what was essentially the other’s story, or reducing the former to his lamest two-dimensional “gun-toting homicidal maniac” interpretations? Could the Shadow ever functionally exist in a universe shared with a space opera setting like the Lensman series? It seems like one could theoretically do a crossover between the Shadow and a character of the same era like Nero Wolfe or Sam Spade, but would it strain credulity to attempt it with characters from an updated form of the private detective archetype like Thomas Magnum’s Hawaiian noir or Rick Deckard’s cyberpunk dystopia? Obviously not expecting answers to each of these hypotheticals specifically, just as examples of the kind of thing I’m wondering now.

I will be going through some of your hypotheticals though, you clearly gave a lot of thought to this and it's only fair I respond in turn. I am always eager to respond anyone who wants to ask specifics about writing The Shadow, because much of what I strive to do through this blog is to just inform people about the many, many things that made The Shadow great, the things that have been neglected, and to provide paths anyone who wishes to write the character may take. I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to write The Shadow someday, but the least I can do is spread knowledge as I work my way there. I'd like to think I've done allright so far.

It's a fairly big question though so we're gonna through it by pieces...

...not THAT way

what exactly would be the boundaries for a good, well-written crossover between the Shadow and different genres or eras of what we all collectively call pulp?

Part of the reason why I did a post yesterday on The Shadow's influences is because looking at them, looking at a character's influences and history, I think are always essential to the prospect of tackling them. And in that regard, The Shadow doesn't actually have much, if any, boundaries stopping him from crossing over with just about anything. The most that's stopping the pulp heroes currently is, besides legal issues, their time periods and obscurity, but The Shadow is the most famous of them all, and a lot of stories have already worked with the idea that he's immortal (which I have my misgivings with, but for better or worse is clearly not going anywhere, and it's not a unworkable concept).

Right from the start, The Shadow was designed to be a long-running, versatile character that could partake in whatever adventures they felt like telling, and part of this is due not just to an incredibly strong personality not afforded to most pulp heroes or characters in general, even those who tried imitating him, but also the fact that he often takes a narrative backseat to the agents and proxy heroes, which means he doesn't have to carry a narrative by his own (and is in fact best suited not to), can blend in to just about anyone's story, and still stand out and be the center of sprawling mysteries. Actually, I'm gonna let Walter Gibson answer this one for you:

While his major missions were to stamp out mobs or smash spy rings, he often tabled such routines in order to find a missing heir, uncover buried treasure, banish a ghost from a haunted house or oust a dictator from a mythical republic.

There was no limitation to the story themes as long as they came within the standards of credibility--which proved easy, since The Shadow was such an incredible character in his own right that almost anything he encountered was accepted by his ardent followers.

Widespread surveys taken while the magazine was appearing monthly showed that a large majority of newsstands sold nearly all their copies within the first two weeks of issue. While other character magazines might show an early flurry, their sales were either spread evenly over the entire period or gained their impetus about the middle of the mouth and sometimes not until the third or even the fourth week.

From the writing standpoint, this made it advisable to adhere more closely to the Cranston guise and to emphasize the parts played by The Shadow's well-established agents, since regular readers evidently liked them. Also, it meant "keeping ahead" of those regulars, with new surprises, double twists in "whodunit" plots, and most exacting of all a succession of villains who necessarily grew mightier and more monstrous as The Shadow disposed of their predecessors.

Always, his traits and purposes were defined through the observations and reactions of persons with whom he came in contact, which meant that the reader formed his opinion from theirs.

This gave The Shadow a marked advantage over mystery characters forced to maintain fixed patterns and made it easy to write about him. There was never need for lengthy debate regarding what The Shadow should do next, or what course he should follow to keep in character. He could meet any exigency on the spur of the moment, and if he suddenly acted in a manner opposed to his usual custom, it could always be explained later.

The Shadow’s very versatility opened a vast vista of story prospects from the start of the series onward. In the earlier stories, he was described as a “phantom,” an “avenger,”, and a “superman,” so he could play any such parts and still be quite in character. In fact, all three of those terms were borrowed by other writers to serve as titles for other characters.

Almost any situation involving crime could be adapted to The Shadow’s purposes

The final rule was this: put The Shadow anywhere, in any locale, among friends or associates, even in a place of absolute security, and almost immediately crime, menace or mystery would begin to swirl about him, either threatening him personally or gathering him in its vortex to carry him off to fields where antagonists awaited.

That was his forte throughout all his adventures. Always, his escapes were worked out beforehand, so that they would never exceed the bounds of plausibility when detailed in narrative form. And that was the great secret of The Shadow.”

In some regards, The Shadow is a mirror. He presents himself to people the way that's best suited to them, the way they'd like him to be, the way he needs to be to affect them. They want money, he has it. They want honor, glory and purpose, he gives them that. They want to fight and turn around social systems for the better, he funds their dreams. Gangsters want the underworld's greatest hitman on their side, he becomes that and lets it be their doom. The story calls for a rich aristocrat who can rub elbows with politicians and kings and presidents, he can do that as long as it suits him. Kent Allard can be a world famous celebrity in one story and a disfigured, broke and faceless nobody in the next. You want a kind janitor with unexpected fighting skill to spy on police and assist the homeless, he has a little someone named Fritz for the occasion. You want an evil monster to be defeated, bring out Ying Ko. Hell, James Patterson's upcoming Shadow novel, which by all reviews seems to be pretty lousy, apparently features The Shadow transforming into a cat. Why? Screw you, that's why! But you'd never see James Bond or Batman spontaneously transforming into a cat without outside interference. He's The Shadow, he's got a face for everything.

(Okay to be clear I don't actually want the Shadow to literally transform into animals, at least not without a good explanation which the book clearly doesn't provide, but I do think it illustrates my point about how generally weird he is)

He is a shapeshifter who can be just about any character in any given narrative who only reveals himself when it's time to materialize into a cloaked terror or a familiar face (whether it's Cranston or Allard or Arnaud and so on). War stories, romance stories, sci-fi stories, globetrotting stories, parody stories, he's done all of them and then some. He doesn't need to be the protagonist of a story, he doesn't need to be invincible, and he doesn't really have any set rules regarding powerset. Gibson stressed credibility a lot, but for over 70 years now, that's clearly gone by the window of the character's writing. By design, he was always meant to be able to smoothly integrate into any existing narrative. Frankly, the only thing that's really holding him back (or saving him, depending on how you look at it) is the fact that he's not public domain (yet).

I think for a start, it's not so much boundaries, because in make believe land boundaries are just things to be overcome on the way to telling a story, so much as it's a good working knowledge of the character and of how far you are willing to stretch your storytelling limitations to include him, because he can account for just about all of them. Now, obviously there's stuff that works for the character better than others, a lot of Shadow fans don't like it when they take the character too much into fantasy, there's debates on how superpowered should he be if at all, and so forth. I have my own preferences, but one of the bigger tests of long-running characters is how can they succeed and thrive when placed outside of their element, and The Shadow can do that.

Could someone do a crossover between the Shadow and Indiana Jones that didn’t rely on one or the other being little more than a glorified cameo in a small portion of what was essentially the other’s story, or reducing the former to his lamest two-dimensional “gun-toting homicidal maniac” interpretations?

would it strain credulity to attempt it with characters from an updated form of the private detective archetype like Thomas Magnum’s Hawaiian noir

Well regarding the first question, the latter portion I think is very easy to do. Just, don't write him like that. Just be aware of why that's a mischaracterization, why the character doesn't need that to work, why he works better without it, and so on. It shouldn't be that hard.

Regarding Indiana Jones and Thomas Magnum, I think these two actually lend themselves very easily to crossovers with The Shadow. On Indy's case, he already is a Pulp Hero operating in the same time period, who's got a heavily contrasting niche and personality to build a fun dynamic around. Indy is more story-driven, in the sense that the Indiana Jones moves are all centered around his experiences and point of view and growth as a person, compared to The Shadow's stories, which are not really about "his" story as much as they are about the stories of the people he comes in contact with. Indy is a blockbuster superstar while The Shadow lurks and slithers through the edges and cracks of a story until it's time to strike. But if anything that just makes even more of a case as to why they could team up without issue, since there's a further built-in complimentary contrast to work with.

I have never watched Magnum P.I so there's definitely stuff I might be missing, but looking him up, past the necessary explanation as to why The Shadow's hanging around the 80s, it wouldn't strain credulity at all for the two to team up. The Shadow has had Caribbean/beach-themed adventures and one unrecorded adventure in Honolulu, he has a beach bum secret identity called Portuguese Joe that he could use for this occasion, and Magnum seems like exactly the kind of character who could star as the proxy hero of a Shadow novel. He's lively and friendly and can look after himself, he has a job that leads him to trouble and puts him on contact with criminals as well as victims, he's got secrets and a dark past and a laundry list of character flaws, he's perfectly capable of carrying a story by himself but can be out of his depth in the schemes that he gets caught up in.

Could the Shadow ever functionally exist in a universe shared with a space opera setting like the Lensman series? Or Rick Deckard’s cyberpunk dystopia?

I'm going to tackle parts of this question more throughly when I answer one in my query that's asking me "How would you do The Shadow in modern day?", which I still haven't gotten around to answering because it's a tricky one. I won't go into the specifics for the two examples you listed because I've never read the Lensman books and googling about them hasn't helped much very much, and Deckard's a fairly standard P.I character mostly elevated by the movie he's in, there's not really much to discuss regarding him specifically interacting with The Shadow. The question you're asking me here seems to generally be: Could The Shadow functionally exist in settings so radically apart from the 30s Depression era he was made for?

My answer for this is a maybe leaning towards yes. Starting with the fact that the concept of The Shadow is more suited for allegorical fantasy along the lines of space operas and cyberpunk, than the gritty realism he's been saddled with for decades, which I'll get into another time. For some reason, a lot of people seem to harp on about how the Shadow's costume is impractical and unworkable for modern times, and said James Patterson novel mentioned above ditched it all together, which as you can guess was a massively unpopular decision. Matt Wagner talked once about how cities don't have shadows and men wearing hats anymore and that's part of why you can't have The Shadow in modern times (as if The Shadow was always supposed to be dressing like an average guy, and not cowboy Dracula). But nobody seems to have a problem with characters dressing up exactly like The Shadow showing up all the time in dystopian future cities with fashion senses where they stick out like a sore thumb (and really, they should stick out, otherwise what's the point of being all weird and dark and mysterious?)

Although The Shadow is specifically suited for urban settings, is conceptually rooted in 1930s America, and there are important facets of his characterization related to history like the Great War, there are not the be-all end-all of The Shadow. It's part of the character. Other parts integral to the character are, as mentioned above, the versatility and metamorphous nature he was always intended to have. His nature as a character who exists to thrive in narratives not about him and not centered around him. His roots on Dracula and King Arthur and Oz and Lupin which are concepts that have had so, so many drastical revisions and turnabouts that still stuck to the basic principles of the icon.

Besides, The Shadow's already been there. He's already been to space, he's already been in alternate dimensions, he's already reawakened in modern/future times several times now (when he doesn't just live to them unchanged). He's been a cyborg twice, and between those, El Sombra, Vendata, X-9, the Shadow-referencing robot henchmen from Bob Morane and Yu-Gi-Oh's Jinzo referencing the movie's bridge scene, it's enough to constitute a weird pattern of The Shadow and Shadow-adjacent characters turning into robots. Perhaps one positive side effect of The Shadow's decades-long submersion in fantasy is that it's opened the character for just about anything, and I think this could be a good thing if it was married to an adherence to the things that made him such a juggernaut of an icon in the 30s and 40s.

Really, The Shadow partially works on Predator rules. And by that I mean, the big secret of the Predator that filmmakers don't seem to get is that the best way to make a Predator film is to just put the Predator somewhere he's not supposed to be, and let that play out. Because the Predator is, by design, a trespasser who invades narratives and turns the power dynamics around, and that works for any narrative you put it into.

The first movie is all about setting you up for a jungle action movie with Schwarzenegger's Sexual Tyrannosaurus Crew as the biggest baddest death squad around, only for the Predator to appear, turn the tables on these shitheads and pick them off one by one until Arnie scrapes a victory by beating it at it's own game. The 2nd movie is about a drug war between cops and gangs in L.A, until the Predator shows up and suddenly he's the big problem again that's gotta be put down. All the other movies fail because they try to be "about" the Predator, but the Predator doesn't work that way. He's a ugly motherfucker who's here to fight and kill things in cool ways for the sake of it's warrior game, who already has a specific structure to how his story's meant to play out, and that's all he needs to be. What you do is just take that character, take the structure he carries around, and throw it somewhere that works by different rules, and let the contrast play out the story.

Obviously there's a lot more to The Shadow than this, I write a billion essays on the guy after all, but much of what makes The Shadow work, much of what made The Shadow such an icon at the decade of his debut and such an interesting character to revolve any kinds of stories around, was because of the great contrast he posed to everything surrounding him, and the ways he can both be at the forefront as well as the backseat of any story.

Going back to what Gibson said:

Almost any situation involving crime could be adapted to The Shadow’s purposes. He could meet any exigency on the spur of the moment, and if he suddenly acted in a manner opposed to his usual custom, it could always be explained later.

The Shadow was such an incredible character in his own right that almost anything he encountered was accepted by his ardent followers.

advisable to emphasize the parts played by The Shadow's well-established agents, since regular readers evidently liked them.

The keyword here isn't that the Shadow should be realistic, frankly that's always been a lost cause. He was never really that realistic, and it's unfair to expect writers to keep pace with Gibson who had lifelong experience with the in and outs of magic and daring escapes and whatnot. The keywords I want to stress here is "accepted by his ardent followers".

Make a good explanation, an explanation that fits the character, an explanation that works, and the rest will follow. And if you can't, make us like the character. Make us accept that he can do and be all these things. Give us something to be invested in. And if that can't be The Shadow himself because he has to stay at arms length constantly to be mysterious, Gibson cracked the code almost a century ago through the agents. Make us invested in them, and through them, we will become invested in The Shadow.

The pulp Shadow would get tired, get injured, need rescuing, need to stop and rest and catch his breath, would need to think and plan and make split decisions on the spot and sometimes would make the wrong ones only to reverse them in the nick of time, and it made the fact that he was achieving all these things all the more impressive. The pulp Shadow was a creature of fantasy grounded in the history of the world he was a part of.

If you can make people care about The Shadow, be truly, genuinely invested in him and his world and the people he comes in contact with, be as invested in those as audiences were back then, you can and maybe should put him anywhere, doing anything, as long as you know what you're doing. As long as you understand what makes The Shadow tick, what makes him work and what doesn't, and whatnot.

Which is a lot of words for "do whatever you want, just don't fuck it up"

#replies tag #pulp heroes #pulp fiction #the shadow #lamont cranston #kent allard #the predator #indiana jones #thomas magnum

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fandom-collective-writers · 4 years

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Trick-or-Treat (Gavin x MC)

Fandom: Mr. Love: Queen’s Choice

Pairing: Gavin x MC (Female)

Warning: NSFW

Requested by: Anonymous

Written by: @voltage-vixen

Excess water droplets trickled down the muscles of Gavin’s toned physique as he stood in the shower wiping the water away from the cuts of his body. Wrapping the towel around his lean waist, Gavin stepped out from the shower and went to grab his shaving supplies in the bathroom’s vanity. Tonight, was the eve of Halloween, and Gavin was preparing for his home date with MC.

The evolver’s work schedule had been gruesome recently; forcing him to travel away for mission after mission, leaving him pining for his time to spend with his special sweetheart. He almost didn’t believe it when the mysterious forces of the galaxy allowed the stars to align since his work told him to take the entire afternoon off to fit in some rest and relaxation time. The second the minute hand on the clock struck to signal his freedom, Gavin had called MC to invite her to spend the night. She immediately accepted his invitation, and he was just finishing getting ready until the sound of the doorbell interrupted him.

“Gavin, it’s me,” MC’s muffled voice rang from the hallway. “I know I’m a bit early, but do you mind letting me in? I forgot my key at the office.”

“Not at all, I’ll be right there!” Gavin called out.

Placing his razor next to the sink, Gavin secured his grip on the towel and wandered through the living room to unlock the door. He let out a startled gasped and nearly dropped his towel when he saw MC standing there looking like a vision. She stood tall in her black heels that emphasized her legs that lead up to the tight-fitting jacket she was wearing. On the top of her head sat a pair of black cat ears, which explained the drawn-on whiskers and black painted on her button nose.

“Trick or treat,” MC purred, her hand resting on his chest to give Gavin an abrupt nudge back into the apartment. “I missed you so much.”

Without allowing her stunned man to respond, MC unfastened the buttons from her coat, and discarded the black jacket to the ground as she stepped out of her heels. Gavin gulped when her hasty strip tease revealed the sight of her naked body that she was baring before him. Now only wearing the cat ears on her head, MC glided towards him and snaked her hands inside the waist of his towel.

“Your turn,” she whispered, before drawing her lips against his own to steal a kiss.

MC deepened their kiss, catching each one of Gavin’s moans as her nimble fingers loosened the towel. Her hand sought the heat of his throbbing arousal, giving him a few hard pumps before eliciting a hiss of pleasure from Gavin.

“You seem more turned on than usual,” MC crooned, nibbling on the lobe of his ear to prolong her teasing. “Do you like it when I take charge?”

She curled her fingers around the thickness of his erection to illustrate her point, wanting to push Gavin wild past the brink of madness. Instead, MC was taken aback when his hand shot up and latched onto her wrist.

“Playing a trick on your boyfriend typically isn’t what one would consider nice,” Gavin retaliated, his hands traveling to seek the warmth of MC’s body as he grasped onto the lines of her waist.

He felt her quiver under the flame his familiar touch elicited. Countless times of intimacy they shared together left no circumference of MC unknown to Gavin. Every curve of hers, every sensitive spot, and all her desires were ravished by her ever-generous partner. The want was evident in her eyes when he lifted the woman up and settled her on the edge of his lap. Her hips squirmed in a frenzied plea for Gavin to allow them to become one. The officer’s lips curled when she fervently eyed the length of his shaft, longing to lose herself in his passion.

“Despite your mischievous behavior, my little kitty cat deserves a treat for being adorable beyond compare,” he coaxed.

Thrusting his hips with intention, the head of his cock brushed against the swell of her womanhood. MC’s head arched at the brief sensation of ecstasy, a rush of blissful electricity pulsating in the pool of her lower belly. Concluding that he had toyed with MC enough, Gavin bestowed mercy upon her and parted her thighs to make his entrance smoother.

“Would you like a treat, my darling pet?” Gavin hummed, his lips grazing along the bud of her breast.

His tongue lazily lapped at her nipple, while he shifted to align his cock between the softness of her glistening folds. Gavin groaned when he was immersed in the warmth of her wetness as the tip of his manhood pressed into her core.

“Y-Yes, I-I want a treat!” MC mewled, her brain frantically searching for the words to respond when her heart was pounding in a gratifying vigor at the slight feel of Gavin stretching her. “No more tricks and no more teasing, so I beg you let me feel all of you, Gavin!”

“You’re a greedy little pet,” Gavin chuckled, leaning over to bite down on the nape of her collarbone before pushing the rest of himself deep into her. “But don’t worry, because you make greed look attractive.”

Gavin was met by the melodious sounds of her moans as his lower body rolled in pace with her bouncing. His fingers firmly held onto her rounded ass, and his teeth lingered along her neckline until a striking crimson pattern was etched into the fairness of her skin.

“My sweet pet deserves only the finest collar,” Gavin murmured, his mouth turning focus to bite the bottom of her luscious lip.

The anomalous whispers of dirty talk heightened MC’s senses, causing her walls to flutter around the thickness of his member as she was beginning to become undone. A salacious grunt escaped through the crease of Gavin’s lips from the tightness of her clenching him. The buildup of his climax was intensifying, and he knew MC was close from the way she was digging her nails across the surface of his back. Keen for MC to lose herself with him, Gavin’s hand snaked around her waist and his able fingers went to work at stroking her like the kitty cat she was.

MC’s cat ears resided soundly in place while the locks of her hair swayed as her body quaked in growing closer to reaching her peak. Her hands crawled up his toned back, and she braced herself by gripping onto his strong shoulders. She noticed a drip of sweat was trailing near his brow from the exertion. Titling her head, MC sensually licked Gavin’s forehead clean. Each caress with her tongue was deliberate and tantalizing, purposely driving Gavin wild, and awakening his inner beast.

MC’s plan was a success because no sooner did Gavin utter a carnal growl before thrusting harder into her. Their hands were roaming over the canvases of their bodies, and their kissing heightened into a feverish rage. Alas, after a few more rhythmic movements, stars blinded MC’s eyes as she let out a euphoric scream. She rested her head on Gavin’s damp chest when she felt him expand, indicating he had also reached orgasm status.

“Wow,” MC breathed, rolling off from Gavin’s lap to take a seat next to him on the floor. “That was just….wow.”

“You’re easy to please,” Gavin retorted, reaching out to tuck her disheveled bangs behind her ear. He kept a watchful eye on her, ensuring her ragged breathing was in the process of returning to normal. “I can’t say I know of any other who would be able to rock the cat look like you do.”

“I wasn’t aware that you were going to be that into this type of thing!”

Gavin’s arms encompassed MC into his embrace, where she giggled at the tickling sensation of their bare skin pressing together. He rested his head in between the ears she still wore on her head when a sudden stroke of genius wreaked upon her. Turning around to face her man, MC removed the cat ears from her head and placed it onto Gavin’s.

“I don’t know, Gavin, this look seems to really suit you as well,” MC mocked, licking her lips whilst climbing onto his lap. “How about we go another round and see how you fare this time as the cat?”

Gavin happily obliged when MC gently shoved him down onto his back. Straddling him, she grinded down onto his cock which had hardened again for round two beneath her. Smirking as his erection twitched, she rested a hand on his chest and gazed down at him.

“Ready?” she challenged, rubbing her hips against his erection, reveling at the heated friction between them. “And this time I’ll be the one giving you the collar to wear.”

Gavin controlled his instinct to plunge into MC, and instead propped himself up on his elbows and pecked at the tip of her nose. Locking glances with each other, Gavin’s eyes were soft as he shared a tender smile with MC.

“Meow,” he responded, with a sexy smirk that should come with a warning as a small flood pooled in between her legs.

“Meow, indeed,” she purred back. Her world was instantly rocked with the blissful intrusion of Gavin sliding into her.

Each one of the evolver’s thrusts was a treat in itself. And while a little trick never hurt anybody before, MC reveled in the spoils of treat after treat Gavin spent the rest of the evening delivering as her teeth went to work on her promise to him.

#mlqc gavin #mlqc fanfic #mlqc smut #mr. love queen's choice #mlqc bai qi #mr. love gavin #love and producer #evol and love

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rigmarolling · 4 years

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Five Things Abe Lincoln Did That Prove He Was A BAMF

I love Lincoln. You probably know this if you’ve listened to me talk for more than two seconds. I have a literal entire bookshelf filled with Lincoln stuff. I teared up in Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln at Disneyland. I cried so hard when I watched Lincoln (2012), that I almost started dry-heaving. I was Lincoln (sort of) for Halloween.

Is it a problem? No. It isn’t a problem, Mom. Because Lincoln was a 100% USDA-certified badass.

Don’t believe me? Here are ten things Abe did to prove he was absolutely a BAMF.

1. That time he jumped out a window to prevent a vote.

In 1840, the Illinois legislature was voting on whether or not to fund the state bank. Lincoln was a member of the Whig party, which did not require members to wear wigs, contrary to what the name suggests, but which did support saving the state bank. The opposing party, the Democrats (different political beliefs from modern-day democrats, do NOT come at me, Reddit dudebros) wanted to shut the State bank down.

It all came down to a vote...and it looked like the anti-state bank democrats were going to win. Abraham Lincoln, then a 31-year-old legislator who looked like the pioneer version of a Tim Burton character, was getting nervous.

Above: Jack Skellington, 1840.

“Shit,” he thought, probably, “We Whigs are screwed if we lose this vote. And we don’t even get to wear wigs.”

The bank-hating democrats scheduled a vote to adjourn the session, which would effectively be the nail in the state bank’s coffin. Abe was panicking. He was the de facto leader of the Whigs; he had to do something.

“Prove your mettle, boy,” he probably thought to himself in a folksy, backwoods kinda way. “Show ‘em you ain’t gonna give up.”

So Abe did what any self-respecting legislator would do when stuck between a rock and a hard place:

He jumped out the window of the legislature to stop the vote.

To be fair, Lincoln wasn’t the only one to opt for a morning act of defenestration: a bunch of the other Whigs joined in, too. The rationale was, essentially, this:

Which is peak Internet comedy, but unfortunately, it was 1840 and the Internet didn’t exist yet, so nobody appreciated the gesture and the democrats eventually wound up closing the bank, anyway.

But at least Abe showed the entire state that he appreciated Looney Tunes-esque escape tactics.

2. That time he roasted a guy during a debate with good-old self-deprecating humor.

You ever rely on self-deprecating humor to beat people to the “yes, I KNOW I am offensive” punch?

So did our 16th president, Abraham Nicole Lincoln.

(Not his real middle name.)

When Lincoln was campaigning, his biggest rival was Stephen Douglas, the Democratic contender who was nicknamed “the little giant” because he was short but a heavy hitter in politics, and also because he looks like the kind of guy that just wouldn’t shut up at parties:

Above: “Actually, I’m not racist, BUT--”

In 1858, Lincoln and Douglas held a series of seven famous political debates called, brilliantly, The Lincoln-Douglas Debates, coming to you LIVE at Rockefeller Center, with performances by the Rockettes, Anna and Elsa on Ice, AND with special guest, Seal!

These debates were THE go-to political show of the season. If you were super into who would be elected to the Illinois Senate in the mid-19th century, then holy shit, you have got to watch these two men go at each other, man, it’s like watching a tree and an angry little dog slap each other across the stage.

During the debates, Lincoln quickly became famous for his one-liners, and also because no one had ever seen a talking tree in a suit before.

In one of the debates, Douglas accused Lincoln of being two-faced. Without missing a beat, Lincoln, who had been mocked his entire life for his ungainly, scarecrow-like appearance in the same way that I just mocked him a few sentences ago, whoops...

ANYWAY.

Lincoln turned to Douglas and went, “Honestly, if I were two-faced, would I be showing you this one?”

And then the audience did this:

And then Lincoln was like:

Check. Mate.

3. That time he was so strong and such a good wrestler that nobody messed with him.

When I say “wrestler,” what do you think of?

Is it this?

Maybe this?

What about this?

Huh? What’s that you say? “What the hell is...is that Lincoln? What...what the hell is Lincoln doing in a list of wrestlers?

“Um,” I answer, “Being a wrestler.”

Because Abraham Lincoln, 6′ 4″ and all of 150-something pounds, was, in fact, an incredibly talented wrestler.

So talented, in fact, that when it came to wrestling matches, he went undefeated for most of his life.

See, Lincoln grew up in the middle of butt crack-nowhere, out in the sticks of the American frontier. Ain’t no room for sissies out on the frontier. This here’s hard-scrabble country, see, rough-livin’; you gotta spit to live; you gotta live to spit; Neosporin? I think you mean weak-ass bitch cream.

So how did rootin’ tootin’ frontier folk blow off steam? Well, when they weren’t dying of dysentery or tuberculosis or minor infections that could today be cured by steady application of Neosporin, they were wrasslin’. And when it came to the act of picking someone up and throwing them back down, nobody wrestled like 21-year-old Abraham Justine Lincoln.

(Not his real middle name.)

One look at the guy and people were like, “The hell? What’s this ancient Egyptian mummy doing in the ring?”

But the second he got going, everyone shut up. Because this guy was nuts. He was a berserker. He could defeat a guy three times his size in seconds. He could bench the Rock, probably, and not even break a sweat.

He was the nicest guy in town. But nobody--and I mean nobody--messed with Abraham Ashley Lincoln.

(Not his real middle name).

One time, Jack Armstrong, the local heavyweight champion who was the Big Bad in town and undefeated in the wrestling and “I’m a giant asshole who smashes my way through problems” arena, challenged Lincoln to a match.

“Uh oh,” everyone in the little town of New Salem, Illinois thought, “That’s it for ol’ Twig Legs Abe. He might be good, but there’s no way he can defeat Jack Armstrong. Nice knowing you, kid; it’s a shame, because you might have made a solid president.”

But Lincoln, who knew no fear and ate chains forged in the heart of a dwarven cavern for breakfast, was like, “Bring it on, bitch.”

Above: Playin’ with the boys.

Jack and Abe started sparring and Jack threw insult after insult Abe’s way. I don’t know exactly what Jack said, but it was probably the 19th century equivalent of, “You may have 2,300 Facebook friends but nobody cares about the pictures of your homemade Shake ‘N Bake chicken that you post, eggwad.”

Abe didn’t relent.

See, he was getting angry.

Really angry.

So angry, in fact, that in one fell swoop, he suddenly slammed big Jack Armstrong to the ground so hard that Armstrong passed out, cold.

Abe had won. Everyone stared at the panting, growling, 6′4″ pine tree man in reverent awe.

A fun epilogue to this story: after Jack Armstrong recovered from getting his ass handed to him by a guy who looked like an extra in a movie about the Amish, he and Abe remained steadfast buddies for the rest of their lives.

Jack just never ever insulted Abraham Jessica Lincoln again.

(Not his real middle name.)

4. The (many) times he went off into long, rambling stories during Cabinet meetings to illustrate a point.

You know how grandma and grandpa sometimes go off on tangents and you’re like, “okay, okay, get to the point.”

But grandma and grandpa don’t even respond and just keep talking about that one time in 1953 that Anne-Marie told George that no, she hadn’t gone to the corner store, why do you keep asking, George? And then I said to George, I said, George, you need to listen to Anne-Marie because she knows that the corner store is the only one in town that sells fresh-laid eggs and Butterick circle skirt patterns, but did he listen? Did he listen to me? No, he didn’t, so I went to---

You get it.

So did every single member of Lincoln’s cabinet. Because Lincoln was a consummate storyteller, for better or for worse.

(Sometimes for worse, depending on who you asked.)

Above: “One time, at band camp...”

Lincoln would interrupt important meetings about, you know, saving the Union and the soul of the country itself with anecdotes that started something like this:

Lincoln: You know, Sec. Stanton, that reminds me of a fur-trapper I knew back in Illinois--

Stanton: Great, except, Mr. President, everyone is dying--

Lincoln: Now this here fur trapper was the best fur trapper in the entire state. Not the entire country, mind you, on account of we didn’t really have a way of measuring fur-trapping skills nationwide--

Stanton: *neck turning purple* Mr. President--

Lincoln:--but definitely the best fur trapper in Illinois. Now one day, this fur trapper set out to do what he did best: shoot some raccoons, or maybe a bear, or a wolf if he was lucky, or a deer, or some moose, or a beaver, or a mongoose, or maybe a possum--

Stanton: OH MY GOD--

Lincoln:--or a cat, if times were desperate, but not a dog, never a dog, because this here fur trapper loved dogs; had six of ‘em himself, all hound dogs, loyal to a fault, see, because this here fur trapper--

Stanton: JUST STOP--

Lincoln: --this here fur trapper could be short-sighted. See, he set his sights one day on shooting the biggest bear in the mountains--and this bear, why, this here bear was a Goliath of a bear, the biggest bear anyone ever did see, the biggest bear in the state; not the biggest bear in the country, mind you, on account of we didn’t have a way of comparing bear sizes nationwide, but--

You get the gist.

Above: “So I’m sitting there, barbecue sauce on my tiddies--”

Eventually, Lincoln would get to the point of his story; in this example, for...um, example...maybe the moral was, “Don’t get so focused on one goal (shooting that big bear) that you loose sight of other objectives in the war (getting rid of the wolf pack killing all the sheep or whatever).”

I would like to explain to you why telling long, rambling grandpa stories was such a power move:

Abe Lincoln was the president.

So his whole Cabinet had to listen.

And Abe Lincoln knew it.

They had to listen to this backwoods guy go on and on about how that one time the local long boatsman fell into the river actually serves as a metaphor for Gen. McClellan’s inability to take control of the troops; or how the rabid raccoon that lived in the local blacksmith’s shop can serve as a metaphor for acting too hastily when trying to take down the South.

Or, like, whatever.

Above: “All here in favor of me performing the entirety of Les Mis starring me as everyone, raise your hands.”

Apparently, Lincoln was also the kind of storyteller who, if there was a funny punchline at the end, took forever to get to the punch line because he’d start laughing hysterically at his own joke, and while many people thought it was incredibly endearing, others were like, “Boy, I wonder what it would be like if I dumped this entire fucking bottle of ink over the president’s head to get him to shut the fuck up.”

Spoiler alert: Lincoln did not, in fact, shut the fuck up. He was determined to teach folks a lesson through the the power of storytelling and also to help break the tension of a legitimately horrible war with the power of laughter.

Monopolizing the conversation to prove a point with anecdotes about frontier living that no one can escape?

Power. Move.

5. Those times he let his kids run amok in the White House and thought it was hilarious.

Lincoln had a four kids, all boys, who moved into the White House after he was elected president.

And these boys were little terrors.

To be fair, a vast majority of boys are terrors. Kids are terrors. They are small harbingers of chaos and discord with little regard for their fellow humans, which means they fit right in in the White House EYYYY POLITICAL COMMENTARY.

But Lincoln’s kids, apparently, were especially out of control.

Above: “Alright, enough pussy-footin’ around, Pops, fork over the dough and no one gets a kick in the nuts.”

Lincoln adored his boys, partly because he was a good dad and partly because he’d already had one child die tragically, so understandably, he was like, “Life is short and antibiotics haven’t been invented yet so we’re all going to die from getting paper cuts, probably; I’m just gonna let my boys do whatever the hell they want.”

And he kind of...did.

Willie and Tad Lincoln, his two youngest, brought tons of pets into the White House. Dogs, cats, birds...when people objected, Lincoln just sort of shrugged. He, too, was a huge animal lover and didn’t really care if ponies were clomping around the Oval Office. “My White House, my rules, my indoor ponies.”

The two Lincoln boys would dress up in military uniforms and have fake military drills and stage fake (LOUD) battles all over the White House, including when Dad was in a Cabinet meeting.

What did Dad do, you ask?

Laugh his head off.

While his kids would burst into Cabinet meetings, crawl under the table and kick important Senators’ legs and feet, generally causing a grade-A ruckus, Abe would try and fail to stifle his laughter.

Which, you know. Objectively isn’t the best parenting, but for Pete’s sake, they were at war, can’t they have a little fun? Jesus, lighten up, folks, they’re kids.

The Lincoln boys particularly irritated Sec. of War Edwin Stanton, but to be fair, almost everything irritated Sec. of War Edwin Stanton.

Above: “I have never had fun once, ever, in my life.”

Once again, Lincoln’s rationale was, “Life is fragile, one of my children already died, the country is at war, and kids make me laugh, so if they want to punch Sec. Stanton in the balls under the table, who am I to stop them?”

Also, Lincoln was the president, so nobody thought it was appropriate to go, “Um, hey? Mr.--Mr. President? Maybe you could tell your sons to, you know...not crawl under the table and interrupt, um...important...war strategy meetings?”

ALSO, Lincoln once wrestled a man twice his size to the ground without batting an eyelash, so you go tell him to make his kids behave. I dare you.

#abraham lincoln #listory #american history #us history #u.s. history

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despiteinspite · 4 years

Audio

On Shop Windows and Being

“I include the personal here to connect the social forces on a specific, particular family’s being in the wake to those of all Black people in the wake; to mourn and to illustrate the ways our individual lives are always swept up in the wake produced and determined, though not absolutely, by the afterlives of slavery.” (Sharpe 2016, 5)

----

In one of my classes, my peer, Joi, shared her experience as a black ballerina. Their practice space was in a closed-down shoe store. The floors were replaced. Big mirrors and balance bars were installed against the walls, and across from the door lined tall shop windows. On the first day of class, at ten years old, Joi and the rest of the dancers sat cross-legged as their instructor introduced themselves. After sharing their names, their instructor told them, "Now as black girls - as black ballerinas, there aren't too many of us. Remember, they can see you." Joi explained to us the importance and the pain of this message. In her practice space, in her learning space, she did not feel free to make a single mistake. Because if she did, she'd not only be disappointment to her own reflection in the practice mirror, but reflect failure to those behind the glass.

What does it mean to be black, to be girl and constantly balancing, expanding, stretching, and splitting yourself into perfection? What can that mean for this body? Claude M. Steele makes Brent Staples' experience whistling Vivaldi the title of his first book in his decades-long career. Steele's work is to examine stereotype and how it affects all of us in a way that prevents us from living without burden or stress. In understanding identity and stereotype's threat to identity formulation, Steele shares Staples' experience as an example of not only the cognition a person experiencing stereotype threat may have, but tactics to cope. For Staples, he deflects fear against him and within him by whistling classical music. In this way, Staples reads as safe to passersby on his walk. As Steele writes, "This caused him to be seen differently, as an educated, refined person, not as a violence-prone African American youth." (Steele 2010, 7) And as I read this in class, I immediately think of another boy marked by youth and dark skin. Emmett Till, 14 years old, was deemed unsafe - in fact, deemed lethal target - due to whistling.

And whether or not Till did whistle does not matter, for many reasons. What matters is that it was reason enough.

For Till, whistling was justification for torture. For Staples, whistling was the only safety net he could think of. It strikes me how truly precarious being black is. There is no singular trick that can be universalized to promise our survival. Be it whistling, walking home, driving with your kids, being President, being President's daughters. There is no safety in this black skin.

When I think back to what my past career plans were and how they and my current experiences have shaped my future goals, I think it was always rooted in attempted escape. For the ability to slip into an imaginary that hugged me, a world that embraced me. For a long time, I coveted for a reality that loved me. I decided to use this space to explore each previous career plan that I translated to an iteration of Me. Be it writer, President or policymaker- I chose these titles because I could feel it projecting a Me the world could love. I yearn(ed) so much for a world that would just love Me.

----

Vocabulary was never my strong suit. It still isn't. And, when we were made to take those spelling tests in elementary school, I drilled myself as much as possible. Before test day, I'd eat alphabet soup for good favor from the Letter Gods; Give me that S on my paper. Even then I knew after all the preparation, I was never going to find myself using the words. Humongous? Big would be fine enough. Be damned synonyms. Be damned precision. I knew enough words to say what was on my mind without needing to do all that studying. But, I wasn't gonna be caught slipping on something everyone else was excelling in.

In fact, that's how I knocked out my two front teeth. My siblings were losing their teeth left and right, purchasing freeze pops after the Toothfairy's fair bargain. So, I grabbed one of my wood blocks, and knocked any loose tooth I could find. Twisted them until my gums gave out and gave up. And now here I am, teeth at a slant and still craving those sweets.

This vocabulary test offered extra credit, something I knew someone in my state - bloody gums, sticky fingers, alphabet soup brain - would need. We were told to make a short story, 10 sentences max, using at least 5 of the vocabulary words. So I made Ten, a young girl aged 9 with too much time on her hands, trying to whack her teeth out. Only thing I remember is that she rode a humongous hot air balloon, tied a brick around her teeth and chucked it into the air. The tooth went with it. Poor Ten. She was a Junie B. Jones copy to be sure, but she got me my S. My teacher pulled me aside and told me I was a great writer. A writer. Suddenly, it felt fitting to call myself: Stephanie, the writer. The one day published author. I had a definition of Me that felt so much cooler, so suave compared to my peers. I was going to be a writer.

I wrote all through middle school. Finished the Saga of Ten, started writing collaboratively with my best friend through Google Docs. What a joy it was to share this fun with someone. We'd swap our names and faces with the leading starlight of our time (regretably and instructively for two girls of color, it was Bella of Twilight), switch the heartthrobs to our Middle School Day Dreams and giggle and shy away and praise and write and write. I really had so much fun then.

I was lonely for much of my time in High school. I knew no one. I knew nothing. It felt like everyone knew which clubs to join, which teachers to meet with, knew what it meant to have a counselor AND an adviser. One for high school troubles and the other for career services. I was 14. But, they were too. And yet, they knew.

I was still Stephanie, the writer though. I did well in my Presentation classes and got along really well with my 9th grade Lit Teacher. She was so sweet to me. I think she knew I was a fish out of water. To find someone who loved writing like I did, like my best friend who rushed along at a different high school that felt like it was in a different time zone, to find someone like that again was a joy. It seemed like no one else connected to All Quiet on the Western Front or the Edgar Allen Poe like we did. I was still cool, suave writer Stephanie in the face of the unknown.

Then, we read Huckleberry Finn. Then, everyone was attentive. Everyone wanted to read along.

Then I heard my classmates say Nigger more times than I could care to count. I remember shooting up. Looking and being reminded that this wasn't Middle School anymore. These faces didn't look like mine. Hair didn't look like mine. Speech wasn't like mine even if they tried to copy. I was black girl in a white room, admiring a white teacher who let these white kids say Nigger. I didn't finish reading Huckleberry Finn. I stopped writing.

I wanted to cry, but what will the people think watching me? What will I think of Me, crouching, hiding near squeaky-clean glass? How is it possible to be stare at and unseen? I think that's why I was so angry after reading Recitatif. I fell for it too. Just like they did. Saw something unseeable, assigned roles to hair smell, to motherhood, to two girls with lapsing memory. Had I really not learned from my own pain?

I think that Lit class was the first moment that I realized I was behind shop windows too. Before, I thought I was a fellow admirer, struck by the fabrics spinning amongst themselves, silks sliding down cheeks, cotton snuggling up to noses. I'm always watching in awe as a They walk freely, playing in such pretty dress-up. I wanted to be out there. I wanted to feel silk. I wanted cotton to be comfort, not a reminder.

In 11th grade, I enrolled in AP US History. I scored well enough on Social Studies SOLs and when that happens, the counselor or adviser (one of em) trains you to take 4 or 5 APs at a time. So, alongside AP Psych, AP Environmental Science, my Monday and Wednesday would feature US History. My professor was very honest about expectations, even getting us to start classes over the summer to cover all the material due to be on the exam. We started with the Reagan Era and it didn't take long for me to realize Republicans were not for me. Then we talked about Clinton's crime bill and I wasn't too sure about Democrats either. This was two years into Obama's second term and I knew support for him in my house was fading too. As simplistic as this sounds, I really thought: if the republicans didn't care about black people, and the democrats didn't seem to care either, who did? Mixing resentment, pride and a loud mouth didn't make for the most principled Stephanie, but it did allow me to vocalize my frustrations. With Reaganomics, with capitalism, with prisons, with black boy death. Be it my teacher knowing many of the sentiments shared here or simply my being black, he asked me to read the Black Panthers' Ten Point Program. And my, oh my, did I find home there.

These were policy makers. These were the people who had the guts to demand, the power to make some changes. Fred Hampton, Stokely Carmichael, Angela Davis and their inspirations in Fanon, DuBois - I found inspiration in them too. I was going to be whatever they were. Policy makers for their community. I was going to learn from them.

From there, I became incredibly elitist. But, I could also answer to the beauty of my blackness. Like many children decades before me, Black would be a political title - one of love and resistance, love in resistance. This elitism carried me into my first year of university. I glowered at anyone who admired the works of Jefferson in my Political Theory class (as if I had not done the same), I scuffed at Alexis de Tocqueville and every other white dude we were made to read. But, I wasn't acting in an antiracist framework. I was still resentful. I was still behind the glass. Now I was just shouted silently at the silk dresses and cotton scarves. But I still wanted to feel them.

Really, it wasn't until Beloved that I could begin a journey of understanding this embroiled joy of black womanhood. I realized how much I fought against my own happiness in the pursuit of a Me that I constantly tormented. As if this precariousness wasn't torment enough. Through Morrison, I was able to learn more about Angela Davis and the struggles her black womanhood had in the face of black men in her community. So many of my political thought leaders too were tormentors, liars, abusers. The men were wounded and bleeding, resented our zealous in the berries they picked. They said it was for us. We gave it to the community. They shame us for it. We bake our own pies, we feed our neighborhood and our neighborhood's resentment, our own deafening shame silences our collective ear, binds our collective feet. Once again, I tricked Me. You loved another abuser. Daydreamed of standing next to another tormentor. Admired another liar. How foolish to give your heart away again. Today, I begin to despair a bit when I think of my previous trajectory - so constantly struck by idol worship and never a Me that I had made for myself. But with Beloved - Oh my, to be so tenderly reminded that this body is mine. Just as it speaks to body(s) like mine, past and future. This heartbeat I feel expresses MY Joy, my sorrows, all mine. What a wonder it is to learn Me. She's waited so long to speak to me. I am so honored to hear her.

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stumpyjoepete · 4 years

Link

Reasonably interesting Cowen post. I think it’s at least noticing something important. Pull quoting it all, so you can be spared the temptation to gaze upon the hive of scum and villainy that is the MR comment section:

Having tracked the libertarian “movement” for much of my life, I believe it is now pretty much hollowed out, at least in terms of flow. One branch split off into Ron Paul-ism and less savory alt right directions, and another, more establishment branch remains out there in force but not really commanding new adherents. For one thing, it doesn’t seem that old-style libertarianism can solve or even very well address a number of major problems, most significantly climate change. For another, smart people are on the internet, and the internet seems to encourage synthetic and eclectic views, at least among the smart and curious. Unlike the mass culture of the 1970s, it does not tend to breed “capital L Libertarianism.” On top of all that, the out-migration from narrowly libertarian views has been severe, most of all from educated women.

There is also the word “classical liberal,” but what is “classical” supposed to mean that is not question-begging? The classical liberalism of its time focused on 19th century problems — appropriate for the 19th century of course — but from WWII onwards it has been a very different ballgame.

Along the way, I believe the smart classical liberals and libertarians have, as if guided by an invisible hand, evolved into a view that I dub with the entirely non-sticky name of State Capacity Libertarianism. I define State Capacity Libertarianism in terms of a number of propositions:

1. Markets and capitalism are very powerful, give them their due.

2. Earlier in history, a strong state was necessary to back the formation of capitalism and also to protect individual rights (do read Koyama and Johnson on state capacity). Strong states remain necessary to maintain and extend capitalism and markets. This includes keeping China at bay abroad and keeping elections free from foreign interference, as well as developing effective laws and regulations for intangible capital, intellectual property, and the new world of the internet. (If you’ve read my other works, you will know this is not a call for massive regulation of Big Tech.)

3. A strong state is distinct from a very large or tyrannical state. A good strong state should see the maintenance and extension of capitalism as one of its primary duties, in many cases its #1 duty.

4. Rapid increases in state capacity can be very dangerous (earlier Japan, Germany), but high levels of state capacity are not inherently tyrannical. Denmark should in fact have a smaller government, but it is still one of the freer and more secure places in the world, at least for Danish citizens albeit not for everybody.

5. Many of the failures of today’s America are failures of excess regulation, but many others are failures of state capacity. Our governments cannot address climate change, much improve K-12 education, fix traffic congestion, or improve the quality of their discretionary spending. Much of our physical infrastructure is stagnant or declining in quality. I favor much more immigration, nonetheless I think our government needs clear standards for who cannot get in, who will be forced to leave, and a workable court system to back all that up and today we do not have that either.

Those problems require state capacity — albeit to boost markets — in a way that classical libertarianism is poorly suited to deal with. Furthermore, libertarianism is parasitic upon State Capacity Libertarianism to some degree. For instance, even if you favor education privatization, in the shorter run we still need to make the current system much better. That would even make privatization easier, if that is your goal.

6. I will cite again the philosophical framework of my book Stubborn Attachments: A Vision for a Society of Free, Prosperous, and Responsible Individuals.

7. The fundamental growth experience of recent decades has been the rise of capitalism, markets, and high living standards in East Asia, and State Capacity Libertarianism has no problem or embarrassment in endorsing those developments. It remains the case that such progress (or better) could have been made with more markets and less government. Still, state capacity had to grow in those countries and indeed it did. Public health improvements are another major success story of our time, and those have relied heavily on state capacity — let’s just admit it.

8. The major problem areas of our time have been Africa and South Asia. They are both lacking in markets and also in state capacity.

9. State Capacity Libertarians are more likely to have positive views of infrastructure, science subsidies, nuclear power (requires state support!), and space programs than are mainstream libertarians or modern Democrats. Modern Democrats often claim to favor those items, and sincerely in my view, but de facto they are very willing to sacrifice them for redistribution, egalitarian and fairness concerns, mood affiliation, and serving traditional Democratic interest groups. For instance, modern Democrats have run New York for some time now, and they’ve done a terrible job building and fixing things. Nor are Democrats doing much to boost nuclear power as a partial solution to climate change, if anything the contrary.

10. State Capacity Libertarianism has no problem endorsing higher quality government and governance, whereas traditional libertarianism is more likely to embrace or at least be wishy-washy toward small, corrupt regimes, due to some of the residual liberties they leave behind.

11. State Capacity Libertarianism is not non-interventionist in foreign policy, as it believes in strong alliances with other relatively free nations, when feasible. That said, the usual libertarian “problems of intervention because government makes a lot of mistakes” bar still should be applied to specific military actions. But the alliances can be hugely beneficial, as illustrated by much of 20th century foreign policy and today much of Asia — which still relies on Pax Americana.

It is interesting to contrast State Capacity Libertarianism to liberaltarianism, another offshoot of libertarianism. On most substantive issues, the liberaltarians might be very close to State Capacity Libertarians. But emphasis and focus really matter, and I would offer this (partial) list of differences:

a. The liberaltarian starts by assuring “the left” that they favor lots of government transfer programs. The State Capacity Libertarian recognizes that demands of mercy are never ending, that economic growth can benefit people more than transfers, and, within the governmental sphere, it is willing to emphasize an analytical, “cold-hearted” comparison between government discretionary spending and transfer spending. Discretionary spending might well win out at many margins.

b. The “polarizing Left” is explicitly opposed to a lot of capitalism, and de facto standing in opposition to state capacity, due to the polarization, which tends to thwart problem-solving. The polarizing Left is thus a bigger villain for State Capacity Libertarianism than it is for liberaltarianism. For the liberaltarians, temporary alliances with the polarizing Left are possible because both oppose Trump and other bad elements of the right wing. It is easy — maybe too easy — to market liberaltarianism to the Left as a critique and revision of libertarians and conservatives.

c. Liberaltarian Will Wilkinson made the mistake of expressing enthusiasm for Elizabeth Warren. It is hard to imagine a State Capacity Libertarian making this same mistake, since so much of Warren’s energy is directed toward tearing down American business. Ban fracking? Really? Send money to Russia, Saudi Arabia, lose American jobs, and make climate change worse, all at the same time? Nope.

d. State Capacity Libertarianism is more likely to make a mistake of say endorsing high-speed rail from LA to Sf (if indeed that is a mistake), and decrying the ability of U.S. governments to get such a thing done. “Which mistakes they are most likely to commit” is an underrated way of assessing political philosophies.

You will note the influence of Peter Thiel on State Capacity Libertarianism, though I have never heard him frame the issues in this way.

Furthermore, “which ideas survive well in internet debate” has been an important filter on the evolution of the doctrine. That point is under-discussed, for all sorts of issues, and it may get a blog post of its own.

Here is my earlier essay on the paradox of libertarianism, relevant for background.

#politics

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comicteaparty · 4 years

Text

June 1st-June 7th, 2020 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party week long chat that occurred from June 1st, 2020 to June 7th, 2020. The chat focused on Phantomarine by Claire K. Niebergall.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

Comic Tea Party

BOOK CLUB START!

Hello and welcome everyone to Comic Tea Party’s Book Club~! This week we’ll be focusing on Phantomarine by Claire K. Niebergall~! (http://www.phantomarine.com/)

You are free to read and comment about the comic all week at your own pace until June 7th, so stop on by whenever it suits your schedule! Discussions are freeform, but we do offer discussion prompts in the pins for those who’d like to have them. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is to have fun and appreciate the comic! Whether you finish the comic or can only read a few pages, everyone is welcome to join and chat with us!

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 1

1. What did you like about the beginning of the comic?

2. What has been your favorite moment in the comic (so far)?

3. Who is your favorite character?

4. Which characters do like seeing interact the most?

5. What is something you like about the art? If you have a favorite illustration, please share it!

6. What is a theme you like that the comic explores?

7. What do you like about the comic’s story or overall related content?

8. Overall, what do you think the comic’s strengths are?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

copperine

Ooh I'll answer a few asap!

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

As another creator/reader, I feel Phantomarine has a lot of good parts: 1. So it starts off thrusting us into the middle, which is unique. Even though we are underwater, the creator gives delightful warm palette. You can identify the spooky 'evil spirits' from the protagonist without the page looking cluttered. 2. I quite enjoyed Ch 2 (The Horizon Child) where I'm presented with more world building and how the story ties with the Red Tide King's lore. My favorite part is the Fracture Day Festival, the colors and the clever plot tactics written. 3. As for character(s), I love Phaedra's noble character. She is a future Queen and has a heroic presence. I also like Vanna, seldom I see great parent writing as her. She is both nurturing and an intelligent doctor. I admire how Lady Lazuli ties her job to Paval's condition. I have a soft spot for silly Paval, his character is both silly yet wholesome (he's not bratty <3) 4: So far, I enjoyed Cheth's interaction (in Ch 1) it told alot about his character; his tendency to shapeshift into different forms. I like his unusual character, hitting my nostalgia buttons for a good villain.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

For themes, it seems to explore family grief and sacrifices within the chapters I read. To have a stable life, one has to endure hardship such as Phaedra taking on the burden of her father's role. I enjoy reading that life philosophy theme not often explored in web comics. Also Vanna and Paval's interaction gives me good family vibes 7-8. I feel Phantomarine storytelling is intricate and expresses the vibe of an experienced creator. Tackling multiple plot points, stringing them into good beats; is tricky but Lady Lazuli pulls it off almost effortlessly. Initially chapter 1 left me with questions and it starts to reveal itself as the story progresses. I came into the story following Phaedra's adventure and will be in for the ride. 5. I have some favorite illustrations: this one http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/the-horizon-child/2-27-the-maritime-fair/ I love the colorful festival. and also the opening page was quite impressive with the crowds of souls, where they become silhouettes, yet convey enough visuals. I LOVE this page in Ch 3 (Fata Morgana), the way the words 'RUN' echos through http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/the-fata-morgana/3-33-the-dark-shoreline/ There's alot of things I like about it: pacing, the plot progression and as I struggle with stringing multiple plot points, I marvel at this skill in the comic.(edited)

Miranda

1. I love that the stakes are high after just a couple pages. There's no dallying and it draws you in so well. Also Cheth is just fantastic and his introduction is so well done! 2. I really loved Pavel eating pancakes and Pavel hiding in his stuffed animal hammock nest to point out a few scenes. It's so hard to choose a favorite moment, but sadly I'd have to say the end of Chapter 3 and just how that all unfolds. 3. GAH! Pavel? Ya...Pavel. Cheth is wonderful, but I feel like Pavel is so young but already has such an interesting personality and I love his spirit. 4. I really enjoyed Pavel and his Mom. But Cheth and Phaedra's interactions were very entertaining. But Pavel and Vanna are just so close and supportive it's just heartwarming sniffle because I know what happens And the warmth and love there stands out a lot against the harshness of the "convent-like" place and Halea's temple, etc. 5. OMG. where to start? I don't even know. I love it. I love the colors. I love the designs. I love the pages with all the tiny little details, they are wonderful. But I think one of my favorites is: http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/the-fata-morgana/3-34-the-prayer/ because I love the contrast between Pavel and Cheth and I think there's just a whole bunch of emotion in this page. 6. This might not be a purposeful theme, but in general I've caught a theme of how danger and bad stuff is handled and I love seeing such strength in all the characters. Phaedra with he just outright defiance, Pavel with his positive outlook and Vanna with love and compassion but also with a analytical mind. They all handle tragedy and loss in their own ways and it's very well done. 7. Everything. This is a very difficult question. 8. Use of color and characters that all stand out from each other.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

cracks knuckles Alright, let's GO! 1. I loved how we immediately know the stakes. We see Phaedra's personality in the challenges Cheth offers, and we know that she's well aware of the situation she's in. It gives it a mythological feel, of the hero in the underworld fighting to the surface. Only this time, there's a caveat; she's still technically an underworld denizen, but allowed to roam the land of the living. The colours set the mood very well too; I loved that the Red Tide King's ghosts were all rimmed in red, while the protagonist were either yellow or blue (diametrically opposed to the red.). And of course, Cheth; he's a wonderful villain opposed to the protagonist, and they have great rapport.

2. Oh dear, there are several to choose from. My favourite one so far is when Cheth asks Phaedra how many people were made into orphans after the war. It was that scene that immediately made me hooked onto the story; a story that went there and isn't afraid to go to that deep, dark place will always get me to keep reading. Another more minor moment was when Eddy was revealed to bully Pavel due to not having his family visit him; it's a great way of having an antagonist show that they are not truly all dark; rather, it's a morally grey area that the characters are in. Even an antagonist can have layers and it makes them seem more human. Finally, Vanna's passing into the Fata Morgana. The scene where she said that she was glad to have saved him, and where they said their goodbyes made me cry. As someone who's had to say goodbye to my own mom as she goes abroad....and not knowing when she'll be back, it hits a deep part of me. I really thought Vanna would be one of the main protagonists.....but alas, it was not to be.(edited)

3. CHETH! Hands down, CHETH! Notwithstanding my bias for underworld cthonic deities, I LOVED his personality. The fact that he reminds me of one of those deliciously personable villains from Disney helps a lot. And I loved how he never let's Phaedra forget that he is a threat, a blue/orange morality villain throughout; he uses his collection of souls to yell at her to be quiet, points out that she's a monster like him, and impersonates her dead father. But he also shows signs of not being a completely inhuman god; like when he shows a slight look of pity/sympathy for Phaedra mourning her father, or when Pavel mourned his mom's passing into the otherworld. Also, I don't see a lot of deities who fluidly go between genders like he does. It makes him so much more interesting, that he shifts into different identities that way. One of the best portrayals of a death deity I've ever seen.

4. Cheth and Phaedra. There's an interesting power dynamic going inbetween these two; on one hand Cheth is a literal god, and he holds a lot of power. On the other hand, Phaedra has shown time and time again to outsmart him both mentally (e.g. winning the questions) and physically (e.g. cutting off his hand). And yet Cheth recuperates from those injuries fast enough to go against her again. It's a back and forth game of David and Goliath. Interestingly enough.....Cheth seems to hold some measure of interest with Phaedra, as if she is an entertainment to him. However, there's also his slight contempt with where she came from, and it's as if however entertaining she is....he'll never forget that. Meanwhile, Phaedra outright wants to kill him....which I don't think anyone can blame her for. It would be interesting to see how their relationship evolves throughout the story as foes.

5. THE ART. IS ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS. The colours balance each other well, the painting style gives it a soft feel, like going into a new world. But I absolutely, absolutely HAVE to give kudos to the details LadyLazuli gives in the backgrounds and the world in general; worldbuilding wise, it shows strong potential for show and don't tell. Several of these pages can be standalone posters themselves!

http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/king-of-the-red-tide/1-1-king-of-the-red-tide/

Several. http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/king-of-the-red-tide/1-31-the-echoing-graveyard/

I mean it http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/schooner-of-the-moon/4-1-schooner-of-the-moon/

6. One theme I'm really interested in and noticed is the idea of paranoia of the vulnerable/sick. Cheth has brought up the idea that a living soul is needed to help Phaedra; however, as she is a seaghost, many people would either be too scared or repulsed by her to aid her. And the seabitten were generally treated as needing to fear or be ashamed of their own "afflictions". Pavel and his mother, however, seem to take exception to that rule and are more interested in helping or accepting these afflictions, trying not to let the fear and paranoia prevent them from being charitable. It would be interesting to see how this theme develops more, as Pavel and Phaedra eventually meet. Would Pavel still keep to these views? Or will society....or....something else, convince him to fear them even more. Or worse, would his mother's death make him more frightened of the seaghosts?. I can see a lot of parallels with this theme to the lepers and other people with diseases; people were scared to even interact with the lepers and they were considered "dirty". It is a common and sadly still very prevalent theme in real life to this day.(edited)

7. I have to say....everything. It just sucks you in very easily.

8. The strength is that it reads like an epic, and not just any epic....a true to life one. The story and dialogue flows amazingly and the colours are vibrant. Overall, it's exactly how I imagine a perfect seafaring mythological story; sometimes I feel like I'm watching a film. I will note that one thing LadyLazuli nailed is pacing. She knows which panels to have dialogue and which ones to not. Sometimes we get dialogue and other times we're just....enjoying the atmosphere and the beautiful backgrounds. Hayao Miyazaki once clapped his hands slowly, making sure to leave a pause inbetween. That was ma, the emptiness, where there is no noise, but just the peace to enjoy and savour. Where there is no action needed. I think Lady Lazuli nailed the concept of ma perfectly. Because she lets the readers enjoy her world.

SkewricArt

5. What is something you like about the art? If you have a favorite illustration, please share it! The backgrounds and color choices are stunning every single time. The page where we first see the fata morgana, with the off whites and ethereal blues looks absolutely haunting to me and it's a favorite (The Archer, 3.26) and the context makes me wanna CRY but that page is so incredible zjsfskf(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Wow, a mountain of words after the first day And all of them extremely kind. Thank you all so much! This has seriously lifted my spirits today

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

You are welcome, Lady Lazuli! I binged in 3 days. oh dear I feel like I was writing a book review more than a Q&A at this point (edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

These honestly feel like book reviews! Extremely passionate book reviews It’s a wonderful sight. And it helps me know what people respond to, and how they respond to it. I will be going back and reading these like direction notes, ohoho~

RebelVampire

What I like about the beginning is kind of how much world lore is snuck in. We learn a lot about Cheth, the state of the sea, how death works, get name drops of other people like Cheline. So without having this long narrative about the world, we get to know a lot about it in the conversation without that necessity. For favorite moment, it's probably when Pavel and Vanna met Halea. Cause I've never seen a scene scream danger at the top of its lungs or feel a child was so threatened by anything. My favorite character at the moment is definitely Pavel. Pavel is just a cute boy who wants to heal the ocean even as most of the adult's around him say "Nah bro dat bad." I also just think it's cute how much he takes after his mother in regards to his appreciation of science. I also just in general like his design. I enjoy(ed) seeing Pavel and Vanna interact the most. They had a super cute parent-child relationship. I like how Vanna kind of balances keeping Pavel in line while also acknowledging that he's ultimately kind of the odd man out both in regards to his physical situation and his beliefs that he shares with his mom. Just all around I love the artworks color. There's a lot of great palettes, a lot of atmosphere, a lot of great contrasts, etc. All around it's just beautiful colorwork that really knows how to make the mood of each scene and character work. As for themes the comic explores, definitely for me science and the opposition scientific pursuits science can face. It's easy to say "But science", but when people are afraid of science or just don't like new ways of doing things, it can become hard no matter how much promise your work has. And I think the comic captures this really well, while at the same time combining more fantasy elements that still blend together really well.

What I like about the comic's overall story insofar is, as a personal bias, the high stakes political plot where people are getting assassinated, souls are being bargained, and so forth. I am a sucker for that since even if it's not the main focus, it adds a sense of danger and high stakes that otherwise would not be presence. For overall strengths, I refer back to the art question. It is definitely the entirety of the beautiful artwork.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Once my work day is done I'm going to comment on some bits of feedback - before other questions come out soon! These observations are tickling my brain. Some are things I haven't even considered before which is extra fun as an author.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Something interesting is that... right now, I'm not entirely sure Cheth is the bad guy? Like, Pavel noted that the red ghosts don't actually attack people. And Halea is definitely all sorts of suspicious, despite being a follower of Cheline. Yet if Cheth isn't a bad guy, he sure didn't make any effort to convince Phaedra of that. So there's a question of who's actually responsible for all the stuff that's going down (all the assassinations, all the attacks, etc).

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Good point! Not only that.....but did you notice that the Fata Morgana has feathers? Kind like how the followers of Cheline do...

mariah (rainy day dreams)

I think the page where Pheadra reveals it's the year of the bonefish was the moment where I was like "oh, I don't think Cheth's bad. I think he's a lonely jerk trapped essentially by himself at the bottom of the ocean with a bunch of soulless dead people." Just the look on his face on this page and the second one make me think that it hasn't been his year in a long time. Or maybe ever XD which would probably turn anyone into a jerk. http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/king-of-the-red-tide/1-10-mark-of-the-bonefish/

And it maybe have also been that I had just finished rereading His Dark Materials when I originally read this but I very much hope at the end all of the Seaghosts are released from the ocean and balance is brought back to death. And I'll stand by my original comment at the end of the chapter still. Still team Phaedra as a Persephone figure at the end XD

I'm looking forward to actually meeting Cheline. Currently I'm pretty anti-Cheline (because I'm a Cheth apologist lol) but I imagine she will also be complex and neither 100% good or bad.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

@mariah (rainy day dreams) so it was YOU who made that persephone/hades comment!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

And it maybe have also been that I had just finished rereading His Dark Materials when I originally read this

@mariah (rainy day dreams) HDM is one of my favorite series ever so this pleases me MUCHLY. Absolutely a big influence!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

It’s an amazing book series. For quite a while I imagined what my daemon would have been when I was younger.

mariah (rainy day dreams)

@mariah (rainy day dreams) so it was YOU who made that persephone/hades comment!

Lol yes, that was me XD

@mariah (rainy day dreams) HDM is one of my favorite series ever so this pleases me MUCHLY. Absolutely a big influence!

@LadyLazuli (Phantomarine) It's so good has definitely left big marks on my own writing and I love seeing it's influences other places :3

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I feel Phantomarine storytelling is intricate and expresses the vibe of an experienced creator. Tackling multiple plot points, stringing them into good beats; is tricky but Lady Lazuli pulls it off almost effortlessly.

@Joichi [Hybrid Dolls] This is very kind! This is my first experience making any sort of long-form story, and my first-ever comic but I think my background in animation has given me a crash course in storytelling - how to convey information as simply/quickly as possible while still being impressive and fun to watch. I watch a lot of storyboards all day, so I'm sure that certainly helps! And I don't have any other stories in my head right now, so I guess I'm throwing everything I have into this one. There are still things I’m discovering as I go along, too. I know all the major destinations, but the paths between them are sometimes still a mystery to me. It's like a puzzle I'm solving slowly

6. This might not be a purposeful theme, but in general I've caught a theme of how danger and bad stuff is handled and I love seeing such strength in all the characters. Phaedra with he just outright defiance, Pavel with his positive outlook and Vanna with love and compassion but also with a analytical mind. They all handle tragedy and loss in their own ways and it's very well done.

@Miranda I like this very much. One of the main themes I wanted to cover in the comic is the idea of brokenness. The circumstances that break people, how they react to it initially, how they react to it as time progresses, and how they try to solve it... if they can, or want to. Being threatened by danger and darkness is absolutely a source of fear, and can lead to a broken feeling, so this lines up!

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) YES. I'M SO GLAD.

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) I never thought about it like this, but that's absolutely the mood I wanted. A pair of characters in constant conflict, and even though one seems far stronger/scarier, there is more of a balance between them than expected.

6. One theme I'm really interested in and noticed is the idea of paranoia of the vulnerable/sick.

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) A lot of the big emotional segments of the comic are drawn directly from my experience with an illness I developed in my early 20s. I felt like I had lost not just my strength and health, but everything I had worked so hard for. There was also a risk of being physically marked by the illness, so everyone would be able to tell I was sick, and therefore write me off as unreliable or broken. I never meant to write a whole story about that feeling, but it seemed to happen on its own

I will note that one thing LadyLazuli nailed is pacing.

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) I think my pacing is incredibly fast in chapters 2 and 3 but it's only because I wanted to get back to the main story SO badly. But maybe the things I had to cut were unnecessary. I do like to keep the plot moving; with how long the pages take, I don't have much time to lose!

Miranda

(I have to second that pacing comment. You do it so well!)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

For favorite moment, it's probably when Pavel and Vanna met Halea. Cause I've never seen a scene scream danger at the top of its lungs or feel a child was so threatened by anything.

@RebelVampire WELL, GOOD By the time this story is over, I wanted people to feel physically ill whenever they revisited that scene, knowing everything that will happen. I hope I eventually succeed... (edited)

As for themes the comic explores, definitely for me science and the opposition scientific pursuits science can face.

@RebelVampire Ooh! This was unintentional from the start, but is absolutely something I'm exploring as I'm planning the rest of the story. I like where it started to go on its own, so I'll be doing more of it for sure

@mariah (rainy day dreams) I actually have a couple different potential endings in mind, depending on how the plot goes and how audiences react, so... nothing is out of the realm of possibility here for better or for worse!

I'm looking forward to actually meeting Cheline. Currently I'm pretty anti-Cheline (because I'm a Cheth apologist lol) but I imagine she will also be complex and neither 100% good or bad.

@mariah (rainy day dreams) Can confirm no one in this story is 100% good or bad. That is all I will say. As I scream internally.

Okay, that was a lot. More than good enough for now

Deo101 [Millennium]

Okay, so I finally managed to get caught up on this one. I've been meaning to for a while! I don't do very well with questions so I'm just gonna kinda ramble on about how much I absolutely love this so far. The worldbuilding is seamless, it never feels like infodumping even though a ton has been revealed to us. I'm also endlessly curious about everything that's been brought up. The kinds of themes being covered; Light and dark, Death, Nothing being quite as it seems (Cheth being sympathetic, and Halea seeming like she has some dark secrets...), The trickery, The need to do what's right, Just all of it! This comic is making me think, and that's really pretty rare! (For something to get me to think about it and theorize, I need to not get caught up on anything else... The pacing, the visuals, the way the dialogue is written and arranged, it's all very clear and easy to follow. I might not remember all the names, but I know who is who and I know who is being referenced) It made me cry, and I am so excited to see where it's going. It's really hitting everything I love about a good story so far. Really this is incredible. I'll be trying to keep up with the discussion this week!

I only read it once and I went through it pretty fast so forgive me if this is a crazy theory but I wonder if Halea died, and won back her soul? Or, if she was seabitten and traded more than just her eyes so she wouldn't die. I notice all of the seabitten people have red eyes, and hers being glass would certainly hide that. She also specified cremating phaedra, rather than burying her, and I don't know if that's customary or just cause it took so long to find her, but I wonder if it's partially to try and make it harder or impossible for phaedra to return... Not sure if that would do anything but hey why not spill all my thoughts while I've got the chance?

(now after having said that it's time for me to backread and see if i've embarassed myself)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

does mental calculations No, no. This checks out with what's been stated so far. Theory is legitimate! And... is focusing on all the right things

Deo101 [Millennium]

phew lol

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Ayy, you finally read it!

Was it as good as we hyped it up to be :p

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah, Ive been meaning to read it i didnt need to be so thoroughly peer pressured... ;)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Sorry I haven't participated in this book club yet ;; I will before the end of the week, I promise

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Also WOW what incredibly kind words again. Thank you!! And did it really make you cry?? I'm always so confused when people tell me that - I keep thinking there's too little story there yet to cause tears

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah ;a;

I work with children

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Maternal love resonates very strongly with me

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Ohhh god. Um... okay... then.... checks notes Have a bucket ready after chapter... six, ish??

Deo101 [Millennium]

so just the line "I didn't know how much it would hurt. How... how did you handle this pain...?" really got to me

(sorry had to go find it so I could get the qote)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

AHHHH

Yess

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

That scene was a slog to get through. Every penstroke hurt.

Deo101 [Millennium]

and yet you say "I'm always so confused when people tell me that"

-_-

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

for me it was these lines

the obvious ones lol

Deo101 [Millennium]

spoiler that

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Maybe I don't think people are getting as hurt as I am

Deo101 [Millennium]

you dingus

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i did...

Deo101 [Millennium]

oh my god I must have clicked as soon as you sent it

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

you-

Deo101 [Millennium]

sorry I obsessively click while I'm reading things

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

ugh what even is the point of spoiler tags when there are people like you around

Deo101 [Millennium]

people who click every spoiler tag even if they know they dont want whats underneath? or people who click with reckless abandon

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

BOTH

(sorry off topic i will stop now)

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah so anyways back to my theories. I need to remember them now, you DISTRACTED ME.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

your theories were too good, i didn't want to be shown up

Deo101 [Millennium]

ugh. I don't remember but it was something about what must have been used to save pavel. It must have been some kind of a relic like the one phaedra needs (which can complete her and her friends souls, again, This would be assuming that being seabitten involves a part of your soul being taken which I assume to be true), something like phantomarine which repels the seaghosts (This would be assuming that seabiting as a disease is akin to being a zombie, which I am less convinced of because it turns you into a fata morgana- not a seaghost, but there could be some reason for that difference), or something with a sacrifice (goes along with my other theory)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

It's similar with me, I don't often see good parent writing with indie comics. (I'd love to read more on good family writing) So Phantomarine convinced me of Vanna's believable maternal nature. I was counting the pages, and you have a good pacing, it has a good balance of world build with showing in pieces. I'm impressed because I've drawn comics for afew years but it's always a learning process whenever I draw a new series, explore new themes. So I admire your skills(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

Also, Cheth suggested that there is not really a way for souls to come from nowhere. They are consumed by the ghosts or him, And in Phaedra's case she had to split her soul among her friends; they couldn't get theirs back, they were gone. I'm at least partially convinced that The relic will be a way to steal someones soul to restore your own, or that there will be some kind of moral dillemma with needing to feed on other's souls to bring yourself back. I don't think it will be a "and then everyone gets out scott free" sort of deal

again I read it once and really fast so I'm assuming a LOT here sorry if im like. way off base

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

WOA

I love that. I felt like there would be something about relic that was too easy

I really like that theory

Deo101 [Millennium]

continuing the last little bit, I think that there is potential, if it was a sacrifice on his mother's part that he is alive now, that pavel is going to start deteriorating and his seabite will begin to spread. I think I could imagine phaedra giving up the part of her soul she has to restore his or something.

okay im getting crazy now sorry GASJDGKLGJSKLGD

depends on what's gonna happen in chapter 6 that rips our hearts out I guess, doesnt it?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

hm, i'm not sure phaedra would do that. i think she has too much of an obligation to her country to give up her soul to a random kid?

Deo101 [Millennium]

well theres a lot of development that would happen before then :/ Just a thought!

im not saying "yeah this is what its gonna be"

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i know

Deo101 [Millennium]

but I think phaedra does have a lot of growing she needs to do, in many directions

and. she's also clearly compassionate towards children. who have lost their parents. just. as an addition

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

@Joichi [Hybrid Dolls] My brain is a web of red threads connecting random pieces of paper The first chapter took me about 2.5 years to complete (I was slow... and Photoshop is slow... and work was overtime-y... and crowds are a terrible idea, please don't do them) so it gave me lots of time to build up the story beyond it. And I didn't post it publicly as I went along - I went back and changed a lot of things as I came up with new ideas. It's only now that I feel comfortable enough to say the machine is 'rolling' But there were some elements that I only came up with, like, a week before posting a page?? The Fata Morgana didn't exist for the longest time, for example, and now they're crucial to the plot. But you don't see me mention them at all in the first chapter I'd go back and change that if I could.

Deo101 [Millennium]

not a random kid I thought it was p obvious that hes the living person who would be willing to work with a seaghost

and then they'll get to know eachother and phaedra is gonna be changed by his big heart.. obviously...

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yes of course

wholeheartedly looking forward to them meeting

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

wholeheartedly looking forward to them meeting

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) ...THIS SUMMER

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

ayyy

Deo101 [Millennium]

coming soon

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

FIVE YEARS IN THE MAKING

literally

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

STARRING!

A bunch of people who all don't know anything!

Join them in not knowing anything!

Deo101 [Millennium]

hey! all the time and effort more than shows

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it's a reference to all the dang mystery and complexity in this webcomic!

like dang, claire, why you gotta make us think?

was trying to relax, geez(edited)

not even your characters know what's going on

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

only one does

...sort of

......ish

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Cheline?

Deo101 [Millennium]

probably whoevers doin the dang murders(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

...Keep thinking

Deo101 [Millennium]

omg

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

someone we know so far?

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

nods

...Claire STOP NODDING

IT'S DANGEROUS

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

second guess would be halea, but i don't think she knows about phaedra or about the specifics of vanna's research. third guess Vanna(edited)

hey

Deo101 [Millennium]

guy who died I forget his name and hes not in the cast list(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

maybe that's why you got rid of her(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

wait he didnt die my b he was silenced(edited)

thats my guess

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I still need to read the most recent chapter ahh

Deo101 [Millennium]

im so sorry. fish you lulled me into not spoilering. I'll go edit

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oop

oh claire left

did one of us get it right

Deo101 [Millennium]

probably me

imagine us elbowing eachother trying to get through the same doorway, here(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Everyone wins. You all get candy.

But no answers

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

cool mail it to me

my address is 2938..

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah i noticed all my theories didnt get answers either... damn. waiting is hard.

fish you've got my address too can you just pass it along, thaaaaanks

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it'd be cool to read the book club back in like

a year or two

finally a chance to doxx someone

what i've always wanted

Deo101 [Millennium]

I feel like this is implying i'll forget my theories. I wont. they live in my brain now.

literally forgot them in the middle of this conversation

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yeah but i might forget your theories

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Go put 'em in the theory channel where I can't see them. Even though I've seen them now OHOHO

I am literally not allowed in my own theory channel

Deo101 [Millennium]

wait WHAT? you made a channel you couldnt see...????

I would die

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oh what you can't see the theory channel? always just assumed you lurked there

Deo101 [Millennium]

we are polar opposites I will go off about all my plans if someone even hints at me that they want them

maybe i could learn a thing or two from you.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i would too but no one ever asks

Deo101 [Millennium]

I wont. but I'm sure I could

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I do not! I don't want anyone thinking I've stolen their idea, and I don't want my original plans to be changed... so... Off-limits

Deo101 [Millennium]

That's fair ^^

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i thought you had several plans :0

how are you choosing between them?

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I have told the full story to... um... three people so far? And by told, I mean... screamed at them

I have minor changes I can make to the ending, but the pathway to them is pretty much the same!

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

woah, okay!

i don't think anyone would think you stole their idea though

if anything, i think they'd feel smart for getting it right!

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah I'd just be like yesss I was right

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I think, before the theory channel opened, I saw one theory that was spot-on

And I was like you children are smart

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

time to look through chat logs

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

HAHA. Best of luck

Deo101 [Millennium]

but there is a history of some people having literally been sued for ppl stealing their ideas from their fanfics and whatnot

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i've heard if you send an unsolicited pitch to a big studio they will always return unopened partially for this reason

Deo101 [Millennium]

so its safe for you to not see them.. but I would be sad in your shoes. but I can tell that you're definitely not like me in this aspect. Plus your story is really pretty clearly woven very tightly to be a mystery and I have a feeling you want it to unravel in a specific way, where spoilers would actually change how it's percieved.

vs. yknow. spoilers don't change how ppl read my story. so I get it! I hope to one day write a story i need to keep secret tbh

n youre doing a good job of it, clearly

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yee. It's "aaaaaa" now, but I can't wait to be "WOAH" when secrets are finally revealed!

Deo101 [Millennium]

and then the re read party

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

THough to be honest, I'm looking forward most to character interactions, not worldbuilding details

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'm not, I want to know the mystery!!!

I mean im looking forward to the character interactions and all that yadda yadda

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

even just like, "pavel and phaedra meet" is enough to keep me engaged :)))

yeah for me, i don't usually care as much about world details

I'm more like

I wanna see what happens to Vanna!

I wanna see Cheth sad

I want to meet Phaedra's friends

And I want to know everyone's backstories

which is probably not possible to piece together from present plot details

Deo101 [Millennium]

Anyways phantomarine kicks ass and I've already sent it to someone asking them to read it.

also full disclosure I thought that phaedra's name was phantomarine for like a long time

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I am absolutely fine with this.

By Twitter naming conventions she will be Phaedra Phantomarine anyway

Deo101 [Millennium]

I was literally just imagining. one sec.

I need to do an edit. one moment please.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Zelda is a cute boy\

love playing as him

Deo101 [Millennium]

I was gonna edit her introducing herself as phaedra phantomarine but I'm struggling to find the perfect page for it

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Well I'll just have to draw more of her then

I really haven't drawn her looking happy or confident very much yet

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

She always looks so cheerful and sure of herself in concept art

and then in the comic it's like

">:(" "D:"

Deo101 [Millennium]

the range

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

She's just... stressed

A very stressed character

Deo101 [Millennium]

Lord do I feel that

Comic Tea Party

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 2

9. In what way do you think Pavel’s story will with connect with Phaedra’s? How might the two help or hurt one another as they pursue their individual goals?

10. Do you believe that Phaedra will succeed in her quest to restore her and her friends’ life? What challenges do you think she will face along the way? Also, what do you think will happen to her even if she does succeed given the shady origin of her death?

11. Why do you think Pavel and Vanna were attacked? What does this have to do with them being given Phantomarine? Also, what might this all have to do with their chance encounter with Halea and the coincidental Fata Morgana attack?

12. What do you think Cheth’s ultimate goals are besides collecting souls? What do you think caused Cheline and Shoshana to banish Cheth during the Fracture, and what might all this backstory have to do with the seaghosts and potentially fixing everything?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

Miranda

9. Well I definitely think they will work together to help restore souls...in some way....and I'm thinking Cheth might guide Pavel towards Phaedra, either knowingly or not. Or Phaedra will come to save Pavel. But I think they will work together for the most part and be able to commiserate over their lost parents. Once they get the relic, there might be some tension regarding how it is used. 10. As people mentioned, her soul is split between her friends. I think she'll be able to restore her own soul, but likely at the cost of her friends dying. I agree that the relic Cheth told her about can't be as easy as he made it seem. There has to be some trick to it. I think she's already facing her challenges of trying to help and get help as a partial sea ghost. I think there will be a bigger challenge once she gets the relic for the afore mentioned reasons. I think her coming back will upset certain people significantly. But I don't think know enough about Halea's plan to know just how upset she'll be at that. 11. Possibly, sea ghosts are drawn to Phantomarine, but are unable to get close enough. So they swarm because it's a beacon to them. So while the Phantomarine protected them, it also put them in the line of fire. I'm liking the idea that Halea was seabitten and that ties in to why she has glass eyes, so discovering another seabitten that's survived is going to be very interesting to her. I'm not sure what it had to do with the Fata Morgana attack besides drawing the swarm towards them. From what we've seen, Fata Morgana seem to appear where there are a lot of sea ghosts. But they very well could be Halea's assassins.

12. I think he wants to return/go on land (as he been on land before) and return to his "rightful" place. Maybe they banished him because he was preventing people from passing on properly, so they banished him thinking he would be less able to meddle with the passing on of souls. But obviously that didn't work. I would imagine if Cheth leaves the sea somehow, the souls he's gathered would be able to roam the earth as well, and that could just cause chaos for the living. But maybe it would also require him to leave his souls to pass on finally, leaving the ocean at peace?

Deo101 [Millennium]

I keep thinking about how the sea keeps being referred to as being "broken", and I wonder so much what that means. Could have something to do with the nature of cheth being banished off shore, and perhaps the existence of phantomarine itself? It seems to be linked with the seaghosts and him, and we've already seen prices being paid to gain power, and I assume the price that a god would pay is far steeper than what humans do... And then that leads me to thoughts about why cheth would have been banished. I think he knows something, or his sister wanted more power, or something like that. The people very obviously are dead set against hating cheth and loving everyone else, and I can't help but think how history is written by the Victors..

RebelVampire

My friends, just as a reminder, even if you spoiler tag here (which is fine for the chat), spoilers cannot be hidden in the archives.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Are we not supposed to talk about them? I'm a little confused sorry

RebelVampire

No you can. I'm not gonna stop it. Just saying it as a reminder.

Miranda

I was just spoilering for people that maybe aren't caught up that wanted to read in this channel.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I guess if people read everything after the fact, spoilers will still show up in the conversation's archived state but hopefully no one reading it will be unfamiliar with the comic. At least I hope so. Dunno why they'd be reading the archive and not the comic

Deo101 [Millennium]

Kinda what I was thinking, I was just worried we were being like, edged into "hey maybe stop doing this thing in particular" but idk what that thing would be

RebelVampire

I have no clue why anybody would be reading an archive before the comic, but sometimes people be crazy? XD But again, just as a reminder in case there's super secret information that reveals all.

Deo101 [Millennium]

My theories are too good apparently

I'm kidding. thanks for the reminder!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Your theories are indeed very solid. I didn't intend to write a mystery, but here we are

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Alright! my turn to give this comic more love! 1. The absolute Tension that was created between Cheth and Phaedra, and the fact that we jump right into this conversation involving SO MUCH! It's an incredible way to start off with so much intrigue and suspense as to what happened with Phaedra, her crew, her father, her family- and to have it all tied to a challenge set by Cheth to essentially put all the pieces together- sublime! What a way to kick off! 2. My fave is probably the beginning of chapter 2, with Pavel and his wee adventures and curiosity about the sea. It really gives that light to show just how much potential Pavel has about uncovering those mysteries of the sea he so lovingly interacts with (and on the same hand the one who gave him his pain and purpose). 3. Vanna. Hands Down. She's loving, she's fast acting, and she's someone who holds that ground for characters. I also really love Fata Morgana for her design and her energy. Super chaotic and mysterious hunter of death for the red tide king? sign me up. 4.Lady Halea and Pavel! That was such an interesting moment of her being knowing and foreboding at the same time. I can't wait to see what more of a role she plays in the future! 5.http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/the-horizon-child/2-1-the-horizon-child/ This is my favourite panel, along with the entirety of chapter 3's colour vibe. Claire has an incredible way to create and lead with atmosphere and design- the characters and world feel so well lived in and alive. Each page is given breath and love, it's astounding to see! 6. I love the theme of honour and accountability that Phaedra leads with in the beginning. Her drive to defeat the wrongs done to her by the red tide king, and her perseverance to do more for those also affected. Pavel and his themes of hope, light, and a second chance also really strike such a chord with me. He's a character that has the power to alter the decisions of those around him for sure!

7. Phenomenal and wonderfully put together. You can instantly tell that this story is going to be a classic with the way it's set up, and with the care and thought of each chapter reading like an epic, Phantomarine has a lot to offer! 8. There are so many to point out, but I definitely want to re-iterate the design. It's insanely solid and so recognisable on it's own. I love the lore and the thought that was out into making this world as alive as it is!

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

9. I think Pavel is more or less a 'bringer of light' I think his decisions will cause major rifts in the story, and help Phaedra through looking at her situation with a different perspective. I think he's a really strong character! 10.I do believe that there is going to be loss and love along the way, like any long journey. The amazing thing about this is the possibilites of their actions, and where Phaedra may actually end up in the end. Her firey personality certainly can be her down fall to a degree, but I think that her goal will be reached in the end, though perhaps not in a way she expected ! 11.Vanna certainly knew more than she let the readers know, and Fata Morgana (and cheth) knew of that potential on that island. Im also feeling like Lady Halea, shady as she is, knew about such a possibility of an attack (but that is based on my own personal hunches !) 12. Cheth misbehaves and he's ready to make some waves in the water (literally ) I think he's ready to strike against his imprisonment, and Phaedra and Pavel are his 'potential pawns' along the way. I don't know if he is really behind a larger part of the plot, tbqh, and think that he's more so an opportunist who's ready to get out of time out. Halea and the gang on the other hand strike me somewhat differently

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Krispyyy these are all so lovely AHH

And some your readings are spot-on I’m so glad

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I think peoples’ reaction to Pavel is such a pleasant surprise. I was very unsure of adding him initially, and some people have said that seeing him right after ch 1 made them worried to keep reading... but he’s absolutely the link between the two conflicting sides of the world. I honestly tried to think of kid characters I liked in various forms of media, and ones I DIDN’T like. I considered him a challenge, and I wanted to do right by him. If Phaedra is the brain of the story, and Cheth is... whatever Cheth is... then Pavel is absolutely the story’s heart. He’s so important.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I did find Pavel as a good refreshing take on the 'energetic boy lead' or deuteragonist in this case. At first I thought he was that usual rascally boy who does what he wants. I think of Hogarth in Iron Giant. But the nice bits of sympathy you put into him, made him a stronger character.(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Hogarth is pretty much a perfect child character in my mind. Still learning, still reckless, but capable of understanding deeper concepts than most would expect. His naïveté drives the story, but not in a bad way.

Deo101 [Millennium]

I absolutely love Pavel. He rings true to the kinds of children i work with, rather than the endlessly annoying types that are for some reason more typically depicted

Granted some kids are annoying but not usually how they're shown to be

Miranda

Oh Hogarth. I love that movie

But yes. Pavel is such a great character. There's so much to him and he's only a child but it doesn't make him seem less childish...if that makes sense

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Yes or you didn't run into the issue of him making adult choices even though he's a child. He feels like a geninine child character. I second with loving Vanna(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I admit at first I thought, oh no, unrealistic child character, but I kept reading to see Phaedra. But then you really proved my first impressions wrong as the chapter went on

Also, Vanna

Vanna's great too

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Pavel has actually skewed a lot more toward Aang from AtlA. He doesn't have this grand destiny on his shoulders, but in terms of his maturity, and trying to see the good in things, that's absolutely him.

And yes, Vanna is absolutely essential to his character. I specifically wanted a scene where she had to turn on the mom face. Pavel's not perfect, even if he's well meaning. He still has to be careful.

Miranda

ya, maybe that's it. He doesn't have the weight of the world on his shoulders like most kids in shows these days. He just has kid problems.

copperine

I love Pavel, he feels very genuine to the world and his life

copperine

He feels very confident and naive at the same time, which is something I relate to (from when I was a child anyway) but I don't see portrayed as well and real-feeling that often

spacerocketbunny

Ok FINALLY JOINING THIS TEA PARTY, here we go: 1. Phantomarine has an incredibly solid start, from foundations to characters to motives, everything is so concrete and CLEAR. We enter in with huge stakes and high tension, it's immediately gripping and very effective! 2. So far is the introduction of the Fata Morgana! The chapter starts pretty tense and it goes from "can we trust Halea?" to "OH NO WE CAN'T AND EVERYTHING JUST GOT 100 TIMES WORSE" Wonderful execution on this scene, it's tragic and all the heavy hitting moments and spot on! Plus I love the FM's design it is just so GOOD 3. My favourite would have to be Halea so far! There's a lot of shifty mystery behind her and I'm super intrigued to see what her business is all about. Also would it be fair to say that the Fata Morgana is an instant favourite at this point? might be soon but have I mentioned that I love that design yet? LOL 4. Cheth and Phaedra I think is just a no-brainer there.The tension, the drama, the high stakes, Phaedra's conviction and Cheth's underhanded tricks, it's all there folks 5. The art is so fluent and feels like a beautiful whimsical puzzle that all fits together so perfectly. The environments are solid and thoughtful, the character's expressions are clear and amusing, it all just goes together wonderfully

spacerocketbunny

There's so MANY strengths for this comic, it's fun, it's beautiful, the pacing is impeccable and the characters are so strong and unique to each other. Everything about it is just so MEMORABLE, there really isn't anything I don't like about this comic. it's the kind of work that you can see getting easily adapted into animation/movies/WHATEVER it just has everything going for it honestly!

I'm not super great with speculating about events and all that but I will stand on top of a mountain to SCREAM MY PRAISE FOR IT

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

SPACEEEEEE

Would you actually like to know something fun about the Fata Morgana? TOO LATE I'm gonna tell you anyway

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

TELL US

copperine

YES

TELL US

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

So just before I had finalized the design of the Fata Morgana, @FeatherNotes(Krispy) had sent me this guest art for the hiatus

And I was like........ that's a freaking awesome motif I haven't thought of. Like a cursed halo.

copperine

a cursed halo.

@LadyLazuli (Phantomarine) yes

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

So... I had the mummy/bandage motif already set, but I knew it needed more. So I slapped some of those rectangles all over the fata morgana as... like... cursed jewelry that evoked the same mood as those divine bands.

SPOILER

ET VOILA

copperine

Omfg

That's incredible

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I couldn't do a full halo, but I could do lots of smaller ones

I loved that idea so much. Like... black bone jewelry, mourning a dead king

And I was like SOLD

So congratulations. Cartridge directly influenced a major design in Phantomarine

copperine

God, I aspire to that kind of thing

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Ditto......damn

and it's one of the best designs too....

okay...gonna try my hand at round 2

spacerocketbunny

YAY OH MY GOSH THAT MAKES ME HAPPY

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

9. I believe that Pavel will be that living soul that helps Phaedra find the relic. But here's the thing....he just lost his mom to sea ghosts. The question is that while he's usually really helpful....would a part of him be scared of the seaghosts, and in extension, Phaedra? Would Phaedra be positively influenced by Pavel too?

Furthermore, Pavel and Phaedra both lost parents in violent ways; Phaedra lost her father last year, while Pavel just saw his mom seabitten and vanish. I think they can gain solace/a sense of camaraderie from that common factor.

10. Even if she does succeed, she'll always have people try to kill her. I wonder....I really wonder....if she'll consider abolishing the monarchy in place of a democracy for the islands. Phaedra seems to want to save everyone, but like other people have mentioned.... what if she can't? I think she's going to lose someone....and if it's not her, it'll be someone

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Ohhmyy gaoihhhgs that is so cool Claire!???? Im so happy that that inspired u to make....the Bae even Bae-er

copperine

@FeatherNotes(Krispy) you're famous

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

11. Halea seriously....she gives me the creeps. And I think the Phantomarine was supposed to protect Pavel and Vanna from being attacked or seabitten. But unfortunately, someone wants to silence them....and Vanna wasn't close enough to the phantomarine to be protected. I think as soon as she saw Pavel was still alive, she didn't like that....that someone who was seabitten hasn't been taken yet.

If she IS in control of the Fata Morgana, or specifically, CHELINE, wouldn't she want more to flow through the ranks. What if they found a treatment, or worse, a CURE for the fata morgana? Doesn't that mean their assassin army could be diminished? What if it meant, I don't know.... less power for Cheline? If there's one thing that the gods in Phantomarine don't seem to like, it's their power being questioned.

12. Deo made some VERY good points. Cheth strikes me as a trickster god....but he's also not stupid. What bothers me is that he's not an omniscient god; he is only tied to whatever the ocean tells him. But like Deo said...what if that's the point, to prevent him from knowing more? Was he banished because he wanted more power? Or was it because he knew too much AND opposed Cheline?

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Man... I have a theory for something that might happen later down the line, but it makes me sad

Vanna returns as an assassin

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I wonder if Cheth/Cheline have had an arms race and they are trying to outcompete each other....somehow. And thousands of years ago, Cheline won. Because she had a mortal on her side. But this time....maybe Cheth is trying to use Pavel/Phaedra as his mortal champions now, just like how the Greek gods used their champions in the Trojan war. Like someone said....Phaedra and Pavel may just be pawns in Cheth's great scheme of things, and maybe he ultimately wants to be free of his chains.

Also....who said that the relic ONLY brings back seaghosts? What if it can bring back Cheth too? Maybe Cheth is just using Phaedra to bring him the relic so that he can escape the sea. Food for thought.

@snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights) with how the panels introducing the Fata Morgana seemed to mirror Vanna's face.....I think you might be right. And she'll try to kill Pavel.

It's a lot easier to kill someone if they're frozen in fear.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

ok I've only read chapter 1 so far but I'm just bowled over by the sheer beuty of the comic. Going to try for the first round before going on to the next chapters just because I want to gush about it a little.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Snuffy... I had the same thought

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

1. The opening scene is an instant win. The challenge and how the dialogue naturally reveals the stakes and the strengths and weaknesses of both Phaedra and Cheth make for one of the best openings I've ever seen in a comic, print or web. Just amazing. 2. Favourite moment in Chapter 1 was the turning point- right after Phaedra won her bet, and how she crossed a line that leads to a pretty underhanded emotional attack on the part of Cheth. Master strokes. 3. As a favourite character I have to go with Cheth, though I like Phaedra as well. he's just so deliciously sleek and evil, and his shapeshifting and soul possessing are very entertaining- thanks to the wonderful art that illustrates it. Great work. 4. I haven't seen more characters yet than Cheth and Phaedra but their interaction is superb. I will be surprised if I get to prefer another set and not those two interacting going forward. 5. The art shines the most when Cheth does his thing with the various shapes he takes and souls he wears. Going to hold on answering the other questions until I've read some more.

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

Finished reading through, but it's 2 am and I won't be coherent answering questions. Gotta wait till tomorrow but I had to say, what a compelling tale. So glad I got to read it. Bookmarked to stay on for the ride. Congrats!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

You're very kind. Thank you

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

6. I think there's nuance on and about a wide range of issues. From religion and faith to politics and bias, discrimination and the fear of death. Complicated, fascinating stuff. 7. I like how characters feel alive, each with their own agency. I also like how it might come down to a competition on who actually is the villain- don't want to spoil anything. 8. The comic's strengths are many- art, plot and dialogue deliver an engaging story with good suspense. I'm a sucker for suspense, so I'm hooked (edited)

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

9. It seems Pavel might be the living person Phaedra needs, with enough quid pro quo to keep them on the same team at least for a while. 10. I'm not actually sure. I'm leaning towards 'yes' but the story might surprise me. If she resurfaces alive, she will have to deal with plotters in her court for sure, and perhaps uncover truths about their clergy that will be ...let's say at least uncomfortable. 11. I think the attack has everything to do with their chance encounter with Halea, considering the warnings they were given. I also have this inkling that their connection to the throne might be a bit more complicated that the average islander's there, which is why they were told to run and hide. 12. Cheth reminds me of Loki a lot (including the male/female ghost wearing) so I'm assuming he pulled a prank or attempted something that potentially would break the world, or some such thing, which got him banished. I'd expect his goal is to escape his banishment, which might then make him more likely to be a big and deadly threat. The seaghosts I think are connected to him directly which is why he knows everything in the sea, or some such thing. But I'm still forming my own theory on that so I can't say I feel confident making any kind of guess on that!

Once again, congratulations @LadyLazuli (Phantomarine) I thoroughly enjoyed this.:)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

7. I also like how it might come down to a competition on who actually is the villain

@Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight) Ooh. Maybe there are still two! And it’s just a question of who is worse

12. Cheth reminds me of Loki a lot (including the male/female ghost wearing) so I'm assuming he pulled a prank or attempted something that potentially would break the world

@Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight) The Loki/Lady-Loki similarity was something I realized far later than I should have. It’s totally true! Might have been a subconscious influence. I always thought the idea was awesome

And thank you very much again for checking it out!

RebelVampire

Given that Phaedra is basically a ghost and Pavel is basically the only person who likes them, it is destiny he will be the only living person who can help her. However, my impression of Phaedra was that, at first at least, she may be overly concerned with her own goals and kind of forget that Pavel is just an adorable boy who needs help. So I kind of feel why Pavel will help her at first, it won't be a two-way street for a while. I definitely think Phaedra will succeed, but I also definitely think that won't be the end of it. Cause there's clearly a conspiracy to kill her. So sure, she may succeed, but then whoops have to stop corruption and the work is never done. As for challenges along the way, I'm sure there's gonna be some occassional Cheth's appearances of mocking. Mostly, though, I think it's gonna be protecting Pavel from the various dangers of the sea. I'm just gonna go definitive on this one with my theory. Halea is the one who had Phaedra assassinated and Halea somehow controls the Fata Morgana. And when she saw that whoops, maybe no more minions, she had Vanna and Pavel attacked cause they were clear threats of power. Cause Halea's power is entirely derived from the fact the sea is broken. If you unbreak the sea, no more power. So gotta maintain that status quo. As for the Phantomarine, I think it's more that in order to escape the dangers, Vanna and Pavel would probably have to travel far away from the safety of the lighthouses. I think Cheth just wants to be not trapped. I kind of feel like there's some unfairness going on here and that while maybe Cheth wasn't the greatest person, but also probably didn't deserve to be cast into the sea forever. And if I'm honest, I think it probably is what made the world worse than anything else.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Solid answers, all of them. Sometimes the strongest theories are the simplest ones

boogeymadam

Oh nO these ended up so long asdfg my bad 9. They’ll probably be connected by a shared-quest. They can help by retrieving things for each other they couldn’t otherwise. We know Phaedra’s gonna need someone to go on land for her and retrieve that Sacred Relic capable of reviving the dead, so I’d be curious to see if Pavel would need the opposite for some reason. Whatever the case, my vague theory on how they’ll connect revolves around Katja! Simply because she seems like the perfect friend for him (and tbh, anyone). And because Pavel seems to like quite a few Seaghost animals like Salty Joe..... and because petting and playing with a fluffy sweet dog is exactly what Pavel deserves Hurt?? Is a more difficult question. I would imagine it’s Cheth related. So far Pavel has shown a lot of sympathy for Cheth and could almost be considered a fan of him based on the costume he wore to the maritime fair. Meanwhile Phaedra has very personal reasons for despising him. 10. Hmm.. Maybe… All the twists and turns in the story so far have taken me by surprise so I really don’t have a clue what kind of challenges she’ll encounter next, or whether she’ll end the story alive. LadyLazuli doesn’t seem to be afraid of breaking reader hearts (and i say that with love lmao). Almost certainly Phaedra have more challenges involving her dad. I’m very curious to know more about him and if he’s as honorable as he seems. If she succeeds, assuming she learns about Vanna’s Seabite cure from Pavel, perhaps she’ll make that a more widespread thing so Seabitten children aren’t abandoned at the aquifier. However, seeing as she was assassinated (or at least Halea claimed she was) she’d probably have to unravel the mystery of whoever is out to get her before she can safely return to the living life, or risk ending back where she started.

11. My interpretation of the exciting latter-half of chapter 3 is this: The instant Halea learned that Vanna cracked the code to curing or at least strongly delaying Seabite, she made up her mind to have her and Pavel killed. For some reason she doesn’t want knowledge of the cure to spread. Perhaps so she has more Fata Morganas under her control? So meanwhile, knowing how Halea operates somehow, Garth gave Vanna the Phantomarine a means of protection, one that a Fata Morgana would not be able to destroy with a bone arrow perhaps. His reasonings for summoning Cheth are very mysterious to me, but I think someone Garth once cared for, this “Snowbelle”, may have had a positive-enough interaction with Cheth that Garth thought “yeah okay I’ll trust you to help my friends” :0c 12. I haven’t picked up on a clear indication of Cheth’s goals, so I’m pulling this mostly out of my bum, but I think it has to do with his skull. It’s on an island so he can’t reach it (unless the lighthouses go out apparently, http://www.phantomarine.com/comic/the-horizon-child/2-21-golden-feronia/ ) and Vanna makes it sound like something terrible would happen if he could reach it. His manifesting and wearing all these other souls, but never appearing close to any of the bonefish imagery makes me think he can’t assume that form without his skull being in the water, but maybe that would unlock some other powers too. Maybe that would undo the banishment, and he’d be free to leave the sea. Which is really funny to me that only once he unlocks fishmode, can he go on land lmao. What he’d do once he’s got that freedom tho, who knoooows I kinda think the relic Cheth told Phaedra of could be the skull, but it’s so... huge… Phaedra and her friends would have no means of getting it into the ocean that I can think of. Maybe they don’t need to in order to revive themselves though?

WAIT i sent that and it just clicked for me that seaghosts can go on land but Cheth can't so whether or not the lighthouses go out, that skull's off limits. but still.

Comic Tea Party

DISCUSSION PROMPTS – PART 3

13. What are you most looking forward to seeing in regards to the comic?

14. Any final words of encouragement for the comic?

Don’t feel inspired by the prompts? Feel free to discuss anything else that interested you!

boogeymadam

13. most looking forward to meeting Phaedra's friends and learning more about the world they live in. Every place we see is dripping with character and a unique atmosphere and unexpected purpose, like the aquifier vs. the venue Vanna and Pavel were in at the end of the maritime fair. 14. It's just such an absolute treasure of a comic, one that is immediately so intriguing that I couldn't have stopped after the first page if I wanted to. (And with a premise and style like this, who would want to!) Its tone is whimsical and a wonderful balance of heartwarming and heartbreaking. Makes me feel nostalgic for old animated movies. Also the pacing great! Phantomarine can pour so much progress and into a single bubbly page and then others have thoughtful pauses that allow for plenty of breathing and digesting of that information. Aside from it being just overall enjoyable, it's also great learning material~

Miranda

13. Honestly, right now I’m really excited to see Cheth and Pavel interact. But besides that I’m looking forward to Phaedra and Pavel uniting 14. KEEP IT UP YOU BEAUTIFUL PERSON YOU! WE LOVE YOUR COMIC AND IT BRINGS JOY TO OUR HEARTS. But seriously. It’s a work of art and you are telling an amazing story in a spectacular way.

Ryccomics

I eschewing the prompts I cannot find them anymore. Good: First, love the art, and color scheme. Second, probably the best backgrounds I have seen in a webcomic, they useful for the telling the story. Love the crowd shots, and the people in the crowd being detailed and different. Pavel’s design quite unique. I really adore the self-contained story of chapter 1, it set up main character, their goal very efficiently, and at least temporary villain (we’ll see about that later). Chapter 2 and 3 I was little less keen on, now we are focussing a different set of characters, and I am waiting for the stories to re-converge. Although, the Vanna death(?) scene was very well done. Most of dialogue has this will matter later tone to it. I feel confident the story has a direction, and a route to get there (this very important given the nature of web comics).

Tantz Aerine (Without Moonlight)

13. I'm looking forward to Phaedra and Haldea interact. That should be juicy. 14. Just keep on going. You're doing great!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

13. I can't wait to see the lore unfold in Phantomarine. It's a world that I want to keep exploring along with the protagonists. And I do want to see how the crew would react and cope to being seaghosts and what that would mean for their relationship with Phaedra. And of course, Cheth. I want to see more Cheth. 14. Claire, your webcomic is amazing, and just want to say that you're doing a wonderful job with it. Please keep up the good work, and I look forward to reading and drawing shitmemes for it

eliushi [a winged tale]

Everyone has already said so much more eloquently of what I wanted to say! I also love the very creative use of typography and background art as Pavel ran through the house to escape in the last chapter. Excellent suspense and tension! As always, looking forward to more!!

Jiblish

Ahhhh I’m late but 13. I’m really looking forward to seeing all the threads come together and seeing all the tension that has been building up unravel. It’s always cool, in stories with different viewpoints happening simultaneously. to see them all crash into each-other. More specifically with Phantomarine, there’s so much we feel like we know and don’t know so it’ll be exciting to get more pieces to the puzzle about people’s true identities and intentions as time goes on. Oh, also, I hope my man Garth is doing okay haha 14. I’ve said this before, and people have said it here, but you can tell this story was crafted with love and somebody with the intense desire for good storytelling. It’s wonderful. Keep doing what you’re doing! We’ll be excited for whatever you cook up next

RebelVampire

I am looking forward to learning more about Cheth cause I really feel like there's something deep just under the surface that's waiting to burst out and scream surprise. As for final words, this is all around a beautiful comic with some really interesting lore with lots of detail and thought put into it. And I think that along makes it worth a read even if it's not your cup of tea!

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Im looking forward to seeing how Pavel really develops. I've said in my questions before that I believe he's a character that has the power to alter and change the course of events-! I think he's going to really turn Cheth on his head with these next new pages too. Also, Fata Morgana is DEF a fave, i want to know so much more of her purpose in the cogs and gears that turn the story U-U All in all, i cannot express how much I truly love this comic. I discovered it a while ago and was instantly hooked with the visuals, characters, and power of story. There's definitely a sense that Phantomarine will easily become a classic amongst the webcomic medium, and that it's certainly a work of art to keep tabs on!

eliushi [a winged tale]

I love the comic layout, the colours and the theme of Phantomarine! It really feels like I’m watching a show since it’s so polished with great movement between each panel. I’m super looking forward to all the character developments and unraveling more mysteries

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I wanted to thank everyone for your kind words before this Book Club officially closes up. I've jumped into the webcomic community without much prior experience or exposure, and I've been amazed by the outpouring of kindness and guidance from everyone I've met, including the people here. Thank you for all the encouragement this week - to me, Phantomarine's story is just barely getting started, but to know it's already this well-received is very affirming (and a little overwhelming!). I consider it my duty to deliver a satisfying story from here to the end, and I'll keep aiming for that goal until my job is done. Big hugs from me, and thank you very much for the feature! I'll have a blast looking back on this in the future

Comic Tea Party

BOOK CLUB END!

Thank you everyone so much for reading and chatting about Phantomarine this week! Please also give a special thank you to Claire K. Niebergall for volunteering the comic and creating it! If you liked Phantomarine, make sure to continue to support it via some of the links below!

Read and Comment: http://www.phantomarine.com/

Claire’s Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/phantomarine

Claire’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/Phantomarine_

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #book club #bookclub #webcomic book club #webcomic bookclub #comic tea party #ctp #phantomarine #claire k. niebergall

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manuscripts-dontburn · 5 years

Photo

Living with Ghosts: Eleven Extraordinary Tales

Author: Prince Michael of Greece

First published: 1996

Pages: 192

Rating: ★☆☆☆☆

How long did it take: 1 day

I was hoping for a cozy-creepy reading for an autumn day, unfortunatelly, Prince Micheal failed me yet again. The man is, at best, and average writer, and this book more than any other shows how self-obsessed and special he (thinks) he is. Because this Prince can see ghosts. Literally any place he steps in he can see them and they narrate their stories to him. The worst parts of the book were him trying to "sound" like the female ghosts he chose to present, because they all sound like a machine. And a male one at that. His stories, so completely and obviously made up by him (whereas I had hoped he was simply rewriting an original lore) were uninspired and for most part bland. Finally, the dude cannot even get his own family history accurately right, so how am I supposed to believe even the parts which are supposed to be a real depiction of history? Greatly disappointed.

House of Glass

Author: Susan Fletcher

First published: 2018

Pages: 368

Rating: ★★★★★

How long did it take: 7 days

This book is like a strong summer heat, the kind which flows through your bones and closes your eyes and everything feels lazy and languishing, the pleasant type of exhaustion. There are so many aspects to it, and so many things I love, that I do not feel the need to explain and describe it. I just want to bask in its feeling for a little while more.

The Romanov Royal Martyrs: What Silence Could Not Conceals

Author: Mesa Potamos Monastery

First published: 2019

Pages: 512

Rating: ★★★★☆

How long did it take: 7 days

This book offers yet another view of the Romanovs, their personalities, decisions and influence on the Russian history (as well as guilt/innocence). Naturally one needs to take into account that this ais a book by deeply religious Orthodox Christians about other deeply religious Orthodox Christians and the faith and its importance for the last Imperial family is the underlying theme for this whole book. The writing flows very naturally, and even though at times I thought the book was way too apologetic in regards to Nicholas and his share of blame on the minefield of events between 1894-1917, it does make one consider those events from a perspective rarely explored by historians (who in general tend to be snarky and smart-ass, if not outright damning). Finally, one has to admit this publication is simply beautiful. Richly illustrated with black and white photos and a bunch of coloured ones near the very end as well.

Maria and Anastasia: The Youngest Romanov Grand Duchesses In Their Own Words

Author: Helen Azar (editor)

First published: 2015

Pages: 191

Rating: ★★★★★

How long did it take: 5 days

Excellent resource focused on two msot overlooked girls in the family. The letters written by Maria Nikolaevna especially give the Grand Duchess her own distinctive voice.

Man's Search for Meaning

Author: Viktor E. Frankl

First published: 1946

Pages: 165

Rating: ★★★★★

How long did it take: 6 days

What makes this recollection of Holocaust different from all other books on the same topic is the chosen point of view. The horrible situation of the prosoners, the torture, the humiliation, all of it is there, but instead the focus is on looking for a viable reason for living. Extremely interesting, uplifting and definitely offering food for thought and self-reflection. The only problem I had was the audiobook, where the narrator, for whatever ungodly reason, decided to speak with a ridiculous German accents every time a fellow prisoner or a guard was quoted.

The Devil in the White City: Murder, Magic, and Madness at the Fair that Changed America

Author: Eric Larson

First published: 2003

Pages: 496

Rating: ★★★★★

How long did it take: 7 days

What an excellent book! (at least as far as the enjoyment goes)I was honestly surprised at how much it grabbed me and did not let go. The juxtapositioning of the achievement of the human effort and inspiration (and pigheadedness) to the lowest brutality which forms the other part of the human nature was well balanced. Whenever the parts about the World exhibition started to be a bit too tiring, one was thrust into the cold and horrifying world of a serial killer. And when those became too overwhelming, returning to the lights of the White city felt like a welcome reprieve. Definitely a non-fiction worth your while.

Anna Pavlova: Twentieth Century Ballerina

Author: Jane Pritchard

First published: 2013

Pages: 208

Rating: ★★★★☆

How long did it take: 2 days

This is a beautiful tribute to Anna Pavlova the Dancer and her enormous legacy. It is richly illustrated with high-quality photographs and makes for a perfect cofee table book. Sadly, I still know next to nothing about Anna Pavlovna the Person.

Children of Blood and Bone

Author: Tomi Adeyemi

First published: 2018

Pages: 531

Rating: ★★★☆☆

How long did it take: 15 days

Sooooooo..... this is one of those books I probably would have loved had it been around when I was 14, but at 32 and some pretty decent reading behind me I feel rather indifferent to it. I appreciate the underlying thought as well as the African-inspired setting, but other than that the book felt extremely awkward in pacing (the first half is literally just action with hardly any world-building, other times the story seems to simply stop.... and not do anything). The author holds a promise, but as of this book it is far from genius (the random modernized language thrown into the conversation rubbed me the wrong way) and all three main protagonists were extremely interchangable when it came to their "voices". I prefer some mystery to my stories too, so the very much linear and served-all-at-once kind of storytelling here did not suit me. Add to it the book is full of YA chlichés, and what you get is a competent book that can take your mind off of your own daily worries for a bit, but that could also have been so much more.

Chernobyl Prayer: A Chronicle of the Future

Author: Svetlana Alexievich

First published: 1997

Pages: 294

Rating: ★★★★★

How long did it take: 5 days

I have read books about torture and plagues, about wars and pandemics, about murders and slavery, but few of those raised such horror in me, made me so utterly exhausted and left me both angry and just numb. I am one of the children who were born in the central Europe shortly after the Chernobyl disaster and as such I have heard the name and have always had some knowledge of the event. But this book finally put it into perspective, made me aware of the acute danger, criminal decisions and human despair the name of Chernobyl truly stands for. It is as important as it is horrifying.

A Dog's Heart

Author: Mikhail Bulgakov

First published: 1925

Pages: 125

Rating: ★★★☆☆

How long did it take: 5 days

I love Bulgakov with all his feverish energy, poetic descriptions of the ordinary and racing imagination, but though I liked this book, it was, in parts, way too jumpy and sketchy to be truly enjoyed. Would probably work better as a theatrical play.

Marina

Author: Carlos Riuz Zafón

First published: 1999

Pages: 196

Rating: ★★★★☆

How long did it take: 3 days

In spite of some issues I had with the pacing and revelations of vital information..... I enjoyed this book and read it very quickly. It holds the same love of old Barcelona as the author´s more famous The Shadow of the Wind, it has the same issues of feeling abandoned, experiencing first love and raking through a mysterious past to reveal something extraordinary. Unlike The Shadow of the wind it holds some supernatural elements and would make a good read even for younger readers. Me myself just needed a bit more flesh on the solid bones of the story for the book to be simply excellent.

#booklr #wrap up #November 2019

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roboticonography · 5 years

Note

Idk how useful a prompt this is, but I think it could be cool to see a scene with FWNL Steve and Pepper? With or without other characters. Loved the new deleted scene!

Ahh! Thank you so much for this, anon. I had so much fun writing it!

This takes place concurrently with Chapter 4 of Flames We Never Lit.

Paper Doll

The text comes on a Wednesday afternoon.

Hi, Pepper. It’s Steve Rogers. I was wondering if I could ask you for a favor. Please let me know if there’s a good time to call you.

Pepper is in the back of a company car—because that’s where she lives now, it seems, shuttling back and forth from one appearance to the next.

Now’s fine, if you’re free, she writes back. She isn’t sure what kind of favour she could possibly do for Captain America, but her curiosity is piqued.

Her phone rings.

“Hi, Steve.”

“Hi. Sorry to ambush you.”

“It’s no problem, how can I help?”

“Well, it’s—I—so.” He takes a deep breath. “My friend, Peggy Carter, she told me about your shopping trip.”

“Oh! How is Peggy?”

“She’s fine, she’s great, yeah. Happy with the new clothes. I think it made her feel a little more like herself.”

“I’m glad.”

“That’s—kind of why I’m calling. I thought maybe you could give me some style advice.”

“Oh,” says Pepper, surprised. “Well, I could… sure. Did you want me to recommend some stores, or go with you, or…?”

“I don’t—whatever you think would…” He sounds deeply uncomfortable with either option.

“Let’s meet for coffee? We can go from there.”

“That sounds fine,” says Steve gratefully. “Thank you.”

Over coffee, Steve explains his difficulty: the only clothes he has are the ones SHIELD provided him, which were plainly chosen with the goal of making a man from 1945 feel comfortable. “I get a lot of looks,” he tells her.

Pepper doesn’t doubt it, though she’s willing to bet that he’s mistaken about the nature of the looks. Steve is even more handsome in person than he is on film, which is saying something.

But what’s even more striking is that he’s a very engaged listener. She never gets the sense that he’s just waiting for his turn to speak.

“Email me your measurements,” she tells him. “I’ll have my shopping service pick out a few things, and you can just pay them directly for whatever you keep.”

Steve looks at her with faint suspicion. “Do you get charged for that?”

Pepper remembers Tony telling a story about Steve counting out coins to pay for his share of a group takeout order. At the time, she’d thought he was exaggerating for comedic effect. Now, she’s not so sure.

“I have an account, so it’s a flat rate,” she assures him. “I’d pay it anyhow.”

She slides a sheet of paper across the table: a chart for taking measurements, with instructions. The accompanying line illustration looks like a paper doll.

He skims the instructions briefly before meeting her eyes again. “Okay,” he says. “Thank you.”

That evening, Pepper receives an email. Steve apparently has access to a scanner: he’s filled out the chart by hand, and sent it to her as a PDF. It’s mildly inconvenient, as Pepper has to copy out all of the numbers to send to her shopper. (His waist-to-shoulder ratio is ridiculous.)

However, the hand-drawn addition of a Captain America costume to the figure on the chart is charming enough to make up for it—especially the word balloon that has Cap declaring, This is what happened the last time I tried to choose my own clothes!

Pepper isn’t sure what she expected Steve Rogers’ apartment to be, but the reality is a little bit sad. It feels… temporary, like a hotel or a hospital. A liminal space.

He’s lined up the contents of his small closet on the bed for her inspection. She can see what he means about the clothes. The pants are high-waisted, with unflattering pleats; the shirts are boxy, in colours that don’t suit his skin tones, and prints that make him look like a picnic blanket.

“I’d put you in solid colours or muted patterns,” Pepper offers, pointing to one of the shirts. “Such a strong check on such a big canvas, it’s not...”

He nods emphatically.

She adds the contents of her shopping bags to the collection: jeans and khakis, t-shirts, henleys, button-downs, a pullover, a cardigan, a jacket. A pair of brown motorcycle boots, lightly distressed. She goes over the various possible combinations, and how to dress an outfit up or down.

“Try everything on before you decide. It should all fit, but the shirts may have to be taken in a little. Have you been to a tailor before?”

“You know I was born in 1918, right?”

“Fair enough.”

She hands him a soft grey t-shirt, and he immediately pulls off the shirt he’s wearing without an ounce of self-consciousness.

Pepper wills herself not to stare. Or burst into flames.

The t-shirt is appealingly snug, highlighting his broad shoulders and trim waist. “You don’t think this is too tight?” he asks, smoothing one hand absently over his washboard stomach.

Pepper is fairly certain that whoever originally pioneered the t-shirt as fashion rather than underwear had Steve Rogers’ exact proportions in mind.

“No, it’s a good fit.” She manages to sound credibly disinterested. “That’s what you should be looking for.”

Steve shrugs, and takes the shirt off.

When his hands move to his belt buckle, Pepper says, “I’ll give you a minute,” and flees to the living room.

Steve comes out wearing dark jeans and a cabled sweater. “I’m sorry if that was rude,” he tells her.

Pepper plays innocent. “If what was rude?”

He gives her a look.

“It’s fine. Don’t mind me, I’m just a little—” The word old-fashioned dies on her lips. “Shy,” she finishes, even though she’s nothing of the kind.

“I spent six weeks in a lab when I first got here. You can only get told to strip so many times before you stop waiting to be asked.”

“I’m not offended. But you should at least hold out until I buy you dinner.”

He grins. “I’ll keep it in mind.”

“How do you like the clothes?”

A shrug. “Everything seems to fit. Does it look right?”

In point of fact, it looks as though he’s just about to get his picture taken for the fall catalogue. Out loud, however, Pepper says only, “I think so.”

“And I can wear this for going out?”

“After work drinks, yes. Formal banquet, no.”

“Great. Thank you.”

He previews a couple more ensembles for Pepper’s approval. She has to remind him not to tuck his t-shirt into his jeans, but aside from that, he seems to be comfortable with the upgrade. He winds up keeping most of the clothes, and insists on paying her for them immediately, in cash, including a tip for the shopper.

Then he walks her to her car, even though it’s still light outside.

Just before they reach the car, he asks, “Do men still send flowers after a date?”

He looks so earnest that Pepper has to resist the urge to hug him.

“Depends. Was it a good date?”

Steve suddenly becomes very interested in his shoes. “Hasn’t happened yet.”

All at once, it comes clear:

Steve has been fine with wearing the clothes SHIELD provided him until now.

He didn’t ask for her help updating his wardrobe because he suddenly cares about what everyone thinks.

He asked for her help because he cares what Peggy Carter thinks.

“It’s not mandatory,” says Pepper carefully, “but it’s a nice gesture.”

“Roses?”

“They’re fine. Kind of outdated. A mixed bouquet is more...”

He frowns, his jaw tightening. Pepper wonders if this is what Tony means when he refers to Steve’s fuck-you-I’m-Captain-America face.

“Roses are fine,” she repeats.

“The house where she grew up had a rose garden.” It’s a banal observation, but he looks mortified to have let it slip.

“It sounds like you know what she likes,” says Pepper.

He nods thoughtfully.

“Whatever you decide, don’t go to the supermarket—the flowers are cheaper, but they’re not as nice. Actually, get Tony to take you wherever he goes. He’s good at flowers.”

“Thanks.” He hesitates a moment, then asks, “Do you find it hard to stay friends with him?”

“No. I mean, a little, sometimes. He can be… a lot. But—and I know this probably sounds weird, but—he’s still one of my best friends. And we’re a good team. We’ve worked together a long time. I can’t imagine my life without him now.”

“That’s not weird.”

It’s tempting to ask about Peggy, but she doesn’t. If he wanted her to know, he’d tell her.

As she drives off, Pepper thinks about the men she’s known who have claimed to be old-fashioned—usually to justify some unpleasant behaviour, or to avoid self-reflection.

Steve Rogers, a stranger in a strange land, has every reason to use his age as an excuse to stop growing. But he doesn’t.

A few days later, Tony texts her: Rogers just told me that you are, direct quote, “a class act.”

That’s nice to hear, she writes back. Same goes for him. You two should hang out more.

Counterpoint: you and I should hang out more. Dinner tonight?

Maybe. I’ll let you know.

Later that afternoon, a modestly-sized flower arrangement arrives at Pepper’s office: a colourful flutter of alstroemeria. She suspects Tony, until she reads the card:

Hopefully not too old-fashioned for your taste. Thanks again for your help. S.R.

Pepper smiles, quite certain that, wherever she is, Peggy Carter is enjoying her dozen roses.

#robofic #fwnl #fwnl 2.0 #pepper potts #steve rogers #Anonymous

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mysticsparklewings · 4 years

Photo

Covered in All the Colored Lights‪

Well, this looks wild and different coming from me, doesn't it? If you've been a Sparkler long enough, you may remember this character of mine from ages ago when I made This Is Where You Wanna Be, which featured her. Her name is Windith, and she's a performer who likes mixing old-time circus elements with more contemporary stuff. (She was originally just a circus performer but that felt too limiting for me, and I'm thinking it might be a little too passive for her personality. I don't have a set story for her, so her character will perpetually be in development ) This drawing was also me testing out some new paper and the new Skin Tone marker set from Ohuhu. Which I simply had to get because it meant more colors of their brush tip markers that I've tested out in the past. (Ohuhu Brush Marker Review and Sweet Ohuhu Snail) I'll cut to the chase for those that aren't interested in the longer version: I kinda hate this paper and it, unfortunately, was not the best choice for what was supposed to be a mostly-marker illustration. But I like the markers! The markers themselves are nice as always, and I like the addition of the new colors, but the one thing I have to point out is that Ohuhu is still lacking in good colors for super pale skin that doesn't have a strong pink or gray undertone. They're doing really good with peachy tones, mid-tone, warm browns, and the new colors add some really nice darker/cooler browns, though. In fact, the new marker colors are what primarily inspired me to bring Winidth back into the fold in the first place; some of the colors looked like they would work really well for her skin tone in particular, and I've avoided drawing her traditionally in the past because I wasn't sure I could capture it accurately with the supplies I had. And...that's really all I have to say about the markers, actually. As brush markers, virtually nothing has changed from the last two rounds of testing I did with the Ohuhus, and thus the only thing I can really comment on is the colors. I really appreciate having more to pick from, especially because some of the colors in the set really do stand apart from the rest of my alcohol marker collection, but a lot of the "light skin tone" options are either too orange/pink or too yellow or just generally too dark for a light/pale skin tone. So, my final commentary is the same as always: More colors, please! Now, as for that paper... I picked up a new sketchbook from my local Ross, which I've known for a while now as having a surprisingly good (maybe not the best, but surprisingly good) art supply section. This paper is by a brand called Craft Smith, which as far as I can tell seems to be very into making scrapbook/craft paper and doesn't appear to be actively selling/promoting sketchbooks currently. (At least not anywhere I could find online.) It also claims to be "Mixed Media Paper 120 lb (180 gsm)." I actually have some 120 lb mixed media paper that I use semi-frequently in the form of a sketchbook by Denik. And funnily enough, that's the same paper I used on my other two Ohuhu marker pieces. So we have both a baseline for comparison in terms of performance and in terms of feel. Now, I'm not an idiot. I did inspect the paper before I actually bought the sketchbook, and it's alarming how deceptive this paper is. It definitely has the right weight/thickness to it, even compared to the 120 lb. paper I already had once I got it home. The only truly notable differences are 1. This paper is a brighter white (the Denik paper is almost on the blue/purple side) and 2. This paper feels smoother. And the second point was actually one of the reasons I bought it, as I thought it was make for a really nice marker paper. (Smoother paper tends to be a better option for brush markers so you don't wear out the nibs as quickly) Oh boy, how wrong would I be! So, let me explain just by going through my process for the art, since that and discovering the atrocities of this paper go pretty hand-in-hand. Trying desperately to get used to my current tablet situation, I started by doing the lines for the illustration digitally, having been inspired for a pose/facial expression by some Ball Jointed Dolls over on Instagram. The lines didn't turn out perfectly, but they were good enough that I felt comfortable printing them out and re-inking them traditionally as I did for Fairy Enchanting, the artwork featured on my Commission Sheet. In that process, I would end up with a 1/2 of the drawing that didn't print correctly, the proper print out I used to do the inking, and also similarly to Fairy Enchanting, a first attempt at tracing my lines that was not turning out how I wanted that got scrapped. So, essentially, I had 1.5 test pages just for colors/color placement (as they were on regular printer paper), and 1 to see how this paper would actually handle my supplies. And while normally I'd be scolding myself for wasting paper and ink, in this case, it's actually a very good thing that happened. My second attempt at inking on this paper went a lot smoother (I think I just needed to loosen up the inking part of my brain), and I was actually pretty happy with how the lines turned out. So much so that once I discovered major problems with the paper, I actually scanned the inked version in to preserve it, just in case. And I even inked it a third time on to the Denik paper I mentioned earlier, extra-just in case so I could even do a side-by-side comparison of the two papers to show "this paper is crap, this other paper is not." (Fortunately, I don't think I'll be needing that third inking despite the tale I'm about to tell.) I started out by using the different test pages to make sure I had the right tones/colors I wanted for the skin. The swatches looked okay, so I went ahead and tried coloring the skin to test some blush and shading. Right away I noticed that 1. The ink feathers/bleeds across the page (outside of lines) way more than it should for a paper this thick, and 2. once the ink settles into the paper, it's kind of patchy/spotty. And 3. If you trying layering a light color over a darker color with alcohol markers, it makes the patchy/spotty-ness more apparent. Obviously, these things combined make layering and blending tricky without the end result looking strange and uncomfortable. Just in case there was something this paper didn't like about the Ohuhu markers, in particular (and also because I wasn't super happy with my color choices for Ohuhu for this particular hair color), I did try a test blend for the hair with some Copic markers. Nope, still feathering badly and doing the weird spotty thing. Still not layering very well without re-working the entire area. Briefly, I panicked. The whole idea for this paper was to be for markers, and I had largely intended for this illustration to be pretty markers-only. But this paper, quite apparently, hates markers. Okay, okay. I tried one more blending/coloring test, this time just seeing if I could do the skin and get it to look decent on this paper inside my lines, and while not super ideal, I did manage to get something I was mostly happy with. Likewise, my next step was to do that again on the final piece. At least then I'd have the most important part--the skin--for this piece done and then I could proceed with whatever seemed like the best option for the rest of it. So the skin actually turned out okay in the end because I was being exceptionally careful to work with the issues I'd already discovered. By nature, it's not the best (as in it would look better on better paper), but it works. I still had at least a small problem on my hands though. To be fair, even before I printed the lines off I was thinking I might try washi tape for her clothes/shawl/whatever, so the paper not liking markers really just re-enforced that idea. The problem was I still had the hair to do. I tried a couple more blending/coloring tests, trying desperately to make the markers work for that, but it just wasn't happening. The way I blend hair just requires too many layers for this paper. So my next solution was to try some tests with colored pencils. For smooth, flat color, this paper is actually pretty nice for colored pencils. For layering and blending, however, (just as I suspected before I even tried it) it's too smooth. Blending works pretty okay if you're just doing 1-2 layers, but anything beyond that is just slippery and unsatisfying, to say the least. That was my two main mediums thrown out the window. Now what do I do? Because I was largely at my wit's end, I got a little crazy and tried some tests using some Faber Castell gelatos to see what they would do. And I have to say, putting the gelatos to this paper does feel exceptionally good, as the smoothness of the paper suits the creamy texture of the gelatos. Although the gelatos don't blend out super well when you add water to them on this paper, so that limits what you can do with them by a fair amount. Not really knowing what else to do, I broke out some actual watercolors and tried those. Fortunately, while the paper does warp fairly easily (that's to be expected with any paper less than 140 lb.), the paint lays down and blends fairly smoothly and nicely. And so I finally had something to work with. There's a reason when I work with watercolors I usually don't go for a hard illustration like this, but I think I managed fairly well to get the paint to do what I wanted. I knew going in it wouldn't have the same look or dimension as my markers or pencils, so I made my peace with that ahead of time. The main thing I wanted was at least the suggestion of shading and relatively smooth coverage. There are some small areas where the paint just did what it wanted anyway, but it's little enough I don't think it ruins the whole thing. I'm sure I could've worked with the hair more to get arguably better results, but by this point, I was so relieved the paint was working that I decided not to push my luck. (I did end up having to digitally tweak it because it shows up as a little more blue on the scan than it actual is, but that's not really the paper's fault.) Since I wasn't sure what exactly I wanted to do with the face/makeup at this point, I moved on to dealing with the washi tape. Fortunately, this ended up working out fairly easily. I actually put the tape down on my inking-gone-wrong (as the areas where I needed to cut it turned out well enough it would work for this) and used an Exacto knife to carefully cut the top of tape away to make the neckline and keep the tape from covering up the little bit of hair that reaches down that far, the hair being the tricker part to cut. Even so, I had a less challenging time than I thought and I only minimally dented/cut into the very top layer of the paper underneath. (Which was why I wanted to cut the tape on not-the-final-piece in the first place; I knew indentions were going to be made from the knife no matter what I did, but it's hard to predict how bad it'll be until it's usually too late.) Once that was done, I could simply peel the pre-cut tape off of my test page and re-apply it to the final one. Naturally, the cut wasn't 100% accurate, but it was close enough that the little bit that wasn't quite right was easily disguised but going back over my lines again and filling any gaps. I went back to the face once that was taken care of, and I ended up relying on the heavy feathering this paper does to get Windith's eyes right. Originally when I drew her, I tried to give her "oil slick" eyes. As in, her eyes are black but have a rainbow sheen to them, like how if you ever see oil in a parking lot, it's black but has that really pretty rainbow shine to it. I never had to consider before how this might translate into a traditional drawing though since that drawing was done digitally and at a time where I thought digital art was going to be my primary medium going forward. (My oh my, how the tables have turned indeed...) After a couple of failed tests (failed due to personal preference and actually not the paper this time) I ended up going with a dark selection of alcohol markers in very teeny tiny dots to make a pseudo-rainbow. It's not a perfect translation of what her eyes are supposed to look like, but it's close enough to suit me. Then came the makeup. Originally, I was going to just make her lips a more natural color and largely call it done, but I didn't want them to blend in too much with her skin and even when I tried a less natural berry color I just couldn't get the blending right in such a small space on this paper. And I was also thinking it would be nice to give her eye shadow and bring the colors from her shawl-thing up into the face area a little bit. But I'd already discovered colored pencils weren't the way to go and I had a feeling I wasn't going to like how this paper handled pastels either, so I just skipped testing that altogether. After some thought, since I originally thought of Windith as a circus performer, I deiced to do some testing with gel pens (which I figured would handle just fine on this paper, given the nature of gel pens in general) and this simple kind of clown makeup. (I'm sure there's a more proper name for it out there somewhere but I haven't the foggiest idea what that said name is.) I ended up really liking that, especially with how the bright colors pop against her dark skin tone, and in that, I thought a bright color would work well for her lips, too. I tested my orange gel pen, but it was a little too bright and just a little too imprecise for my taste, so I opted for a little fluorescent orange watercolor instead. I know the makeup probably looks kind of silly to most, but I really like it and how it ties the colors together better. And besides, I think it says a lot of about Windith's character that she can wear makeup like that but still looks as confident and determined as she does here. But I wasn't done quite yet. I wanted to do something to fill the empty space in the background, but as I mentioned earlier I really was not keen on finding out how this paper would handle pastels after the struggles I'd already been through. And also I didn't really think any of my pastel colors would work all that well with the other colors going on here. It's not too much, but I ended up defaulting to some of my dollar-store stencils to add some florals and a little butterfly back there. I figured that would tie in nicely with the floral washi tape, add a bit of color, yet not totally overpower everything. I also ended up with some artsy white dots because I somehow got some random ink dots/smudges around a few edges and once I covered those up I added some more dots so it would look like an intentional part of the look. Unfortunately, said white dots did not show up on the scan. The final piece is definitely far from perfect and this paper is not good for a lot of things I was hoping it would be (I can report it seems to work pretty good for regular sketching, though, so it won't go to waste!). However, I still managed to get something pretty decent out of the equation, I think. Small victories? I may not be looking forward to making more finished pieces with this paper, but I am looking forward to playing with the Ohuhu Skin tone markers more, that's for sure. I've got a few sketches that I'm thinking about turned into a mini-series illustrating a few different skin tones with them, but I haven't decided 100% on that just yet. I do have a couple of other projects definitely coming down the pipeline though, so stayed tuned. P.S. The title is a reference to The Greatest Show, the opening them from "The Greatest Showman," the same song that largely inspired the first time I drew Windith. It's just kinda her thing now. ____ Artwork © me, MysticSparkleWings ____ Where to find me & my artwork: My Website | Commission Info + Prices | Ko-Fi | dA Print Shop | RedBubble | Twitter | Tumblr | Instagram

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kensingtonapts · 4 years

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SAM EVANS is 23 YEARS OLD and he is a FREELANCE ARTIST in the inspiring city of NEW YORK. He is living in Apt 223. He is portrayed by the hunky hunk CHORD OVERSTREET and his role is currently CLOSED for auditions.

( + ) ADVENTUROUS, KIND-HEARTED, INNOVATIVE.

( – ) GUARDED, IMPULSIVE, NAIVE.

SAM’S STORY

Sam Evans has definitely not had the most ideal childhood in the world. He was born with dyslexia, which made him have to work a little harder in school than everyone else, and due to his parent’s unstable financial income, he was never really able to seek extra help. They didn’t have a cute house in a nice suburban neighborhood with white fences and birdhouses; instead they inhabited the slums of New York. Sam spent most of his teenage life working whenever he could in order to help his parents and younger brother and sister. His favorite spot to work was a small used bookstore not too far from his house. Sam especially enjoyed the graphic novels and found solace among the pages filled with brave superheroes and the adversities they faced and saw himself. Sam managed to draw inspiration from these graphic novels and realized he had a real knack for art. When he wasn’t working or taking care of his siblings he could be found in the art studio of his high school. Reading wasn’t always his strong suit, for obvious reasons, but in art he could express his creativity in a way that made him feel smart and useful. In fact, once high school graduation came around, Sam was able to use the inheritance that his grandfather left him to obtain a degree in art from NYU. Sam got a few different job offers after graduation, including a prestigious entry level position as an illustrator for a publishing company in Los Angeles. However, Sam couldn’t justify it to himself to be so far away from his family so he decided to stay in New York and now just freelances for advertising/marketing firms. It’s not as fun or creative or stable but at least he can stay close to his family. Sometimes he wonders what would have been….and hopes that his future has some more opportunities in store for him.

♛ All Sam has ever wanted was to make his parents proud and to repay them for everything they’ve ever done for him. It didn’t matter that they didn’t have a lot of money growing up, because regardless of their financial standing, they always supported him. They were his biggest fans and never failed to make him feel worthy. If he had to thank anyone for pushing him to stay on top of his art, it’d be them. His mother and father were nothing but loving parents, even through the hardships they faced as a family. That’s why he couldn’t leave for California; he owed this to them.

♛ Sam often takes on enough jobs to support himself and his family. He sends checks to his parents, even though they’ve practically begged him not to. He knows it hurts them to need help, but hey, they helped support him for how many years before he was up and on his own? Plus, he wants his siblings to have a better life than he had, not that he had a bad life. He just doesn’t want them having to work their way through school, because it wasn’t exactly fair then, but it totally wouldn’t be fair now. Besides, they both have super bright futures ahead of them and the last thing they need to worry about is where their next meal is going to come from.

♛ Sam was born and raised in New York; it’s quite literally all he’s ever known. He never had the luxury of traveling out of state for vacation or for any other reason. The home he grew up in was only two bedrooms, which had been fine for the most part. He slept on the couch and let his siblings share the bedroom. After all, he just needed a place to sleep after going to school, working, and focusing on his art.

SAM’S CONNECTIONS

↳ FINN HUDSON: Finn is Sam’s roommate and best friend. Put these two together and you’ve got the Einsteins of party theme. These guys know how to throw a wicked party. They’re the social hub of the scene once the Pizza man starts rolling in with their twenty-fours and Sam brings the keg. They both have a strong belief that you’re never too old to party like a college kid and that’s how they intend to roll forever. That is, until the complex owner sees the damage it’s all done.

↳ TINA COHEN-CHANG: Tina’s verbosity, while sometimes perturbs other residents never seemed to deter Sam. In fact, Sam finds Tina to be very intelligent and patient while others weren’t willing to be and that’s pretty awesome if you ask him. They’re never without something to talk about.

↳ SEBASTIAN SMYTHE: They don’t talk much….besides the occasional short conversation here and there. It’s not that Sam dislikes him per se…he just isn’t sure what to make of the rowdy, outspoken, and sometimes crude remarks Sebastian very often makes. There’s something about Sebastian that Sam distrusts though he can’t quite put his finger on why….

THE QUESTIONNAIRE

1. Do you ever get tired of playing baby sitter of your younger siblings? You are twenty three, after all.

“What? No way. They’re my siblings, why would I get tired of watching over them? They need me and they’re honestly pretty cool.” Even if he was tired of it, it wasn’t like he could just say it. Besides, he’d grown so used to to playing the role of babysitter that it didn’t even really matter anymore.

2. Would you say you have a type when it comes to women or are you an all loving kind of man?

“I’ve never really understood dudes who have a type. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I’ve totally dated plenty of chicks who kinda look alike, but it’s more than that. Good personality trumps hot bod sometimes. Guess you could say I’m all loving?”

3. Are you worried you’ll never get a job offer close to home and you will have gone through years of college for nothing?

"I’m gonna get a job offer. Might not be today, or tomorrow, or 2020, but I’m going to get one eventually. I know it wasn’t super smart to pass up the LA gig, but New York is huge and there has to be something here for me. I just have to be patient, because apparently it’s a virtue or something. Whatever that means.” Hell yeah he was worried and he had every right to be.

#c:all #sam evans #m:taken #c:taken

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theonyxpath · 5 years

Link

Today’s blog is going to be a bit different. It’s one of the rare Mondays we aren’t holding our weekly meeting, in that it’s the Labor Day holiday here in the US and a bunch of us are all over the place taking care of everything from finishing up conventions to driving a kid back to college.

So, while we still have our updates and all that, I don’t have a meeting’s worth of notes to share with you in some mutated form. Instead, I thought I’d selfishly take the opportunity to talk about one of my processes; specifically, the process I go through to design the look of one of our game line’s cover treatments.

In this case, I’m talking about the cover for Trinity Continuum: Aberrant.

To do that, we need to go back to when I was designing the overall look of the entire Trinity Continuum line. Sitting down and considering what direction to go with it, I made the a call to make sure the covers let folks know that they were part of a series, rather than the direction of the original editions where I wanted each core book to reflect the genre the game was designed to emulate.

I’m talking about the funky and unique plastic binding of Trinity (Aeon), the graphic novel look of the Aberrant cover, and the pseudo-distressed look of an old pulp magazine for Adventure!.

I think we did a pretty nice job on them way back when, but now that we are emphasizing the fact that these game lines exist in a Trinity Continuum, I was looking for a way that the cover treatments would also relay that information.

A timeline sort of feel – something that could be read as moments along the Continuum – was what I was looking for, but my first idea, a single illustration that we’d cut sections out of for each main book, just wouldn’t work as intended. After all, we expect to add all sorts of new time periods and genres, so how could those be worked into a single illustration before we even could know which ones we were doing?

Instead, what if each point on the timeline that represented a new slice of the Continuum was represented by a vertical illustration that collaged together the high points of that setting? I could picture them springing up all along the timeline, with maybe the “tent pole” game settings of the Trinity Continuum: Core, TC: Adventure!, TC: Aberrant, and TC: Aeon, getting the largest and most involved images for their covers, and other books having treatments that were as involved as the books warranted.

Something like this:

That would give us an underlying structure that tied into the Continuum concept – and it is always a good thing to try and put new concepts into some sort of visual design that reinforces and even explains that new concept – yet not have a design that would constrict our ideas and cover visuals.

Here’s what the TC: Core and TC: Aeon covers look like:

Now for TC: Aberrant, I was able to start with continuing the structure set up with the previous covers, and I had the original edition’s collage cover by the awesome Tom Fleming to draw imagery from to give us the quite accurate sense of a connection between the two editions. So things like a cityscape at the bottom, and making sure we got a T2M logo somewhere in it, were natural choices for imagery.

Which scenes, which head-shots, and which full figures to be featured were a different matter entirely. A lot depended on just what we wanted this edition to have as themes, or basically, what kind of moments and characters best show off the setting folks will find past the cover?

For the biggest, focal-point full-body figures: we’d talked about the changes to The Fireman’s story, so I knew he was still an inspirational figure – maybe even moreso in this edition. I even played around with having the central image be his statue, but decided on keeping the focus on the living hero.

Divas Mal, of course, needed to be in a position of prominence, and I wanted the swirl of his cloak to talk about one of our most iconic characters also being a comic book character. Around him, the leading figures in his movement, since Mal was still a messianic figure that movements coalesced around in this edition.

Some rough sketches along the way to the cover design.

Then between them, another iconic and powerful character, Antaeus – even before we knew the lead-in webcomic would feature him. Smaller figures would run the gamut of the various kinds of Novas – mercenary Elites, celebs in the public eye, T2M members, etc. I also wanted a wide range of physical types.

Some head-shot characters as a call back to the first edition cover, and to break up the figures on a visual level. I knew Matthew and Eddy were anxiously awaiting a chance to pitch a supplement detailing the Nova wrestlers that featured way to prominently in first edition (IMHO), so Lance Stryker reprises his head-shot, along with the iconic Cestus Pax to reassure long-time fans that the hero you love to hate was still in there. (Especially since Ian Watson had already made some strong changes to the character).

Just like on the previous two book covers, the three characters above the cityscape are new ones, but again, I was pushing to hit some archetypes and expand some physical types. Plus, we had discussed a long time back that “inventor” type characters would be able to go all Tony Stark, so a powered-suit character needed to be on there to suggest that change in this edition.

For iconic scenes, I started with the Galatea explosion, and the attack on the Lincoln Memorial by Geryon. Both of those have also been moments from which a lot of the further events of the setting sprung. Then a few more, like a T2M rescue just to get the team into the cover a tad bit more, as even tweaked, I know they were still a great entry point for lots of folks coming to TC: Aberrant already aware of the idea of superhero teams.

Because, even with all that pre-planning, there were still tweaks to be made. The biggest came late in the actual illustrating when I was reminded that in this edition’s continuity Slider isn’t murdered. I’d designed the cover before the writing was done, and forgotten I’d included the Slider assassination as one of the cover moments. Whoops! We had to get that fixed even later than Mirthful Mike’s cover mock-up for the Kickstarter.

And please, lest you think this whole blog is me suggesting the covers are all a RichT production of a RichT idea, directed by and starring RichT, let me be clear that most of my efforts end by handing off my sketches to Mirthful Mike Chaney, who not only art directs the cover illustrations based on the sketches, but follows up on the illustrator’s versions and my notes on them, and then makes the illustrations sing by how he has done the graphic design for the covers.

Fantastic artist Shen Fei, who has illustrated the covers for all three books so far, has so far blown away and improved my ideas by a quantum level – and I expect that TC: Adventure! will also be for more beautiful than I imagined as I sketched it out! (And I can imagine a fair bit of beautiful.)

So, that’s pretty much it for this week. Just a little peak behind the scenes on how we do the voodoo that we do so well in order to illuminate our:

Many Worlds, One Path!

BLURBS!

Kickstarter!

Keep an eye out in this space as well as on our social media for the Deviant: The Renegades Kickstarter that will be launching later this month!

Onyx Path Media!

This Friday’s Onyx Pathcast features recordings from GenCon! Go to https://onyxpathcast.podbean.com/ or to your favorite podcast venue!

The Onyx Path News show went out live today, with talk of Vampire, Werewolf, Chronicles of Darkness, They Came From Beneath the Sea!, Dystopia Rising: Evolution, and all kinds of other games, along with lots of meandering nonsense from Matthew! https://youtu.be/ZVmX1n_54Fc

Our Twitch channel has a bumper crop of content coming up this week, with almost every day populated with a show! There’s Scion, Scarred Lands, Vampire, and more! Check us out and give us a follow on www.twitch.tv/theonyxpath

Here’s a special treat for fans of Mage: The Awakening! Occultists Anonymous have four new episodes for you right here as follows:

Episode 37: Forging Futures With Atratus still within her soul and tensions running a little high, Wyrd and Songbird split the party. Plans are made for the future of the cabal and the individual mages. https://youtu.be/ay54wbYhs7Y

Episode 38: In the Wings Wyrd the Seer and Songbird work to restore a wounded Hallow. Atratus experiments with the new strength of her Matter Arcana. https://youtu.be/ZsMa26FER4g

Episode 39: Lady of the Lake Wyrd the Seer delves into her Oneiros to confront the conflicts within her own soul. Songbird prepares for his UFC fight. Atratus speaks with her dead brother. https://youtu.be/AD2UTOzWSq8

Episode 40: He’s Back Acanthis, the fighter formerly known as Songbird, returns to a UFC fight, then the cabal goes to Jimmy “Smalls” Patinko’s place for a party. Enjoying the nightlife in New York City… https://youtu.be/yULxjFKo-iE

The Story Told Podcast continue their excellent Dragon-Blooded actual play. As the Dragon-Blooded set out again on the road to Daric, Kai discovers evidence of a small band of travelers attempting to hid their presence. The Dragon-Blooded decide to investigate. https://thestorytold.libsyn.com/

Our Scion: Athens, Ohio actual play is now on our YouTube channel right here https://youtu.be/gQv3599lczo along with promo videos here https://youtu.be/drNIV5G8Vys and here https://youtu.be/9_1X8l1RXaQ Expect more to come in the coming weeks!

Drop Matthew a message via the contact button on matthewdawkins.com if you have actual plays, reviews, or game overviews you want us to profile on the blog!

Please check any of these out and let us know if you find or produce any actual plays of our games!

Electronic Gaming!

As we find ways to enable our community to more easily play our games, the Onyx Dice Rolling App is live! Our dev team has been doing updates since we launched based on the excellent use-case comments by our community, and this thing is awesome! (Seriously, you need to roll 100 dice for Exalted? This app has you covered.)

On Amazon and Barnes & Noble!

You can now read our fiction from the comfort and convenience of your Kindle (from Amazon) and Nook (from Barnes & Noble).

If you enjoy these or any other of our books, please help us by writing reviews on the site of the sales venue from which you bought it. Reviews really, really help us get folks interested in our amazing fiction!

Our selection includes these fiction books:

Our Sales Partners!

We’re working with Studio2 to get Pugmire and Monarchies of Mau out into stores, as well as to individuals through their online store. You can pick up the traditionally printed main book, the screen, and the official Pugmire dice through our friends there! https://studio2publishing.com/search?q=pugmire

We’ve added Prince’s Gambit to our Studio2 catalog: https://studio2publishing.com/products/prince-s-gambit-card-game

Now, we’ve added Changeling: The Lost 2nd Edition products to Studio2‘s store! See them here: https://studio2publishing.com/collections/all-products/changeling-the-lost

Scarred Lands (Pathfinder) books are also on sale at Studio2, and they have the 5e version, supplements, and dice as well!: https://studio2publishing.com/collections/scarred-lands

Scion 2e books and other products are available now at Studio2: https://studio2publishing.com/blogs/new-releases/scion-second-edition-book-one-origin-now-available-at-your-local-retailer-or-online

Looking for our Deluxe or Prestige Edition books? Try this link! http://www.indiepressrevolution.com/xcart/Onyx-Path-Publishing/

And you can order Pugmire, Monarchies of Mau, Cavaliers of Mars, and Changeling: The Lost 2e at the same link! And NOW Scion Origin and Scion Hero are available to order!

As always, you can find most of Onyx Path’s titles at DriveThruRPG.com!

On Sale This Week!

This Wednesday, Night Horrors: Shunned By the Moon for Werewolf: The Forsaken 2nd will be available in PDF and physical book PoD versions on DTRPG!

Conventions!

Save Against Fear: October 12th – 14th GameHoleCon: October 31st – November 3rd PAX Unplugged: December 6th – 8th 2020: Midwinter: January 9th – 12th

And now, the new project status updates!

DEVELOPMENT STATUS FROM EDDY WEBB (projects in bold have changed status since last week):

First Draft (The first phase of a project that is about the work being done by writers, not dev prep)

M20 Victorian Mage (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)

Exalted Essay Collection (Exalted)

Dragon-Blooded Novella #2 (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Exigents (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Many-Faced Strangers – Lunars Companion (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Contagion Chronicle: Global Outbreaks (Chronicles of Darkness)

Player’s Guide to the Contagion Chronicle (Chronicles of Darkness)

Contagion Chronicle Jumpstart (Chronicles of Darkness)

N!ternational Wrestling Entertainment (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)

Creating in the Realms of Pugmire (Realms of Pugmire)

Redlines

Tales of Aquatic Terror (They Came From Beneath the Sea!)

Kith and Kin (Changeling: The Lost 2e)

Wraith20 Fiction Anthology (Wraith: The Oblivion 20th Anniversary Edition)

Crucible of Legends (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Lunars Novella (Rosenberg) (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Yugman’s Guide to Ghelspad (Scarred Lands)

Vigil Watch (Scarred Lands)

Pirates of Pugmire KS-Added Adventure (Realms of Pugmire)

Second Draft

Tales of Good Dogs – Pugmire Fiction Anthology (Pugmire)

Dragon-Blooded Novella #1 (Exalted 3rd Edition)

Across the Eight Directions (Exalted 3rd Edition)

One Foot in the Grave Jumpstart (Geist: The Sin-Eaters 2e)

Scion: Demigod (Scion 2nd Edition)

Titanomachy (Scion 2nd Edition)

Trinity Continuum Jumpstart (Trinity Continuum Core)

Terra Firma (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)

Monsters of the Deep (They Came From Beneath the Sea!)

Development

M20 The Technocracy Reloaded (Mage: the Ascension 20th Anniversary Edition)

Creatures of the World Bestiary (Scion 2nd Edition)

Heirs to the Shogunate (Exalted 3rd Edition)

City of the Towered Tombs (Cavaliers of Mars)

TC: Aeon Jumpstart (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)

Mummy: The Curse 2nd Edition core rulebook (Mummy: The Curse 2nd Edition)

Masks of the Mythos (Scion 2nd Edition)

TC: Aberrant Reference Screen (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)

Manuscript Approval

Creatures of the World Bestiary (Scion 2nd Edition)

W20 Art Book (Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20th)

Scion: Dragon (Scion 2nd Edition)

Scion Companion: Mysteries of the World (Scion 2nd Edition)

Legendlore core book (Legendlore)

Post-Approval Development

Trinity Continuum: Aberrant (Trinity Continuum: Aberrant)

V5 Chicago Screen (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)

Deviant: The Renegades (Deviant: The Renegades)

WoD Ghost Hunters (World of Darkness)

Scion LARP Rules (Scion)

Geist 2e Fiction Anthology (Geist: The Sin-Eaters 2nd Edition)

Oak, Ash, and Thorn: Changeling: The Lost 2nd Companion (Changeling: The Lost 2nd)

Cults of the Blood Gods (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)

Editing

Night Horrors: Nameless and Accursed (Mage: the Awakening Second Edition)

Lunars: Fangs at the Gate (Exalted 3rd Edition)

TC: Aeon Ready-Made Characters (Trinity Continuum: Aeon)

Hunter: The Vigil 2e core (Hunter: The Vigil 2nd Edition)

Chicago Folio/Dossier (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)

City of the Towered Tombs (Cavaliers of Mars)

Let the Streets Run Red (Vampire: The Masquerade 5th Edition)

W20 Shattered Dreams Gift Cards (Werewolf: The Apocalypse 20th)

Post-Editing Development

Memento Mori (Geist: The Sin-Eaters 2e Companion)

DR:E Jumpstart (Dystopia Rising: Evolution)

Pirates of Pugmire (Realms of Pugmire)

Indexing

Geist 2e (Geist: The Sin-Eaters 2nd Edition)

ART DIRECTION FROM MIKE CHANEY!

In Art Direction

Contagion Chronicle

Trinity Continuum: Aberrant

Hunter: The Vigil 2e

Ex3 Lunars – Contracted. Sketches rolling in.

TCfBtS!: Heroic Land Dwellers

Night Horrors: Nameless and Accursed

Ex3 Monthly Stuff

DR:E Threat Guide – Helnau’s Guide to Wasteland Beasties – Contracted.

Deviant (KS) – Contracted. Putting together KS graphics.

Trinity RMCs – Contracted.

Cults of the Blood God (KS) – Sending out art notes.

Chicago Folio – Art notes going out this week.

Mummy 2 (KS) – Got Matthew’s notes.

Memento Mori – Small book, throwing it to Drew and Luis.

In Layout

They Came from Beneath the Sea!

Dark Eras 2 – Files with Aileen

Trinity Continuum Aeon: Distant Worlds

VtR Spilled Blood – With Josh. Everything is in, so he should be cruising.

Aeon Aexpansion – Need to do cover.

Proofing

C20 Cup of Dreams

Signs of Sorcery – Inputting errata.

M20 Book of the Fallen

DR: E – Back to Eddy for XXs.

DR:E Jumpstart

CoM – Witch Queen of the Shadowed Citadel

At Press

Dragon Blooded – Shipping wrapping up.

Dragon-Blooded Cloth Map – Shipping wrapping up.

Dragon-Blooded Screen – Shipping wrapping up.

Trinity Core Screen – At Studio2.

TC Aeon Screen – At Studio2.

Trinity: In Media Res – PoD proofs coming.

Trinity Core – Printing. PoD proofs ordered.

Trinity Aeon – Printing. PoD proofs ordered.

V5: Chicago – Prepping files for press.

You Are Not Alone (TC: Aberrant Comic) – PoD proof ordered.

Shunned By the Moon – PDF and PoD physical book versions available this Wed. at DTRPG!

Today’s Reason to Celebrate!

Thanks to Impish Ian Watson for posting this: “50 years ago today, two computers at UCLA were connected via a 4.5-meter cable, giving birth to what we call the Internet. Happy birthday, Internet.” Because without the internet, Onyx Path would just not work – we need the connections around the world to do what we do!

#Onyx Path Publishing

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neuxue · 6 years

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Before you get to the arc payoffs, I think it would be cool if you could illustrate your thoughts on the journeys the main characters have gone on to get to this point. Like, your thoughts on their consistency and what you think worked and didn't work, aside from Perrin's plotline temporarily dying and Mat disappearing for a book.

This is an excellent question and I could probably take several weeks to compile an answer but I’m going to answer it now because I am an adult who is entirely in control of her life and her choices especially regarding fiction, fictional characters, and the discussion thereof.

‘Main characters’ is a rather flexible definition in WoT so I’ll start with the original set from EotW and go from there, and we’ll see how far I get.

(Okay it turns out I only got through the Emond’s Field group, becasue I’m me and I can’t just write a sentence or two for each one, but I might try later to do the same for some other characters)

Rand al’Thor: Rand’s character arc, and the way it’s executed, is fantastic. He definitely benefits from the sheer length of the series (well, his arc does; he just suffers), because it allows for a nuanced, complex, thorough character journey from farmboy to broken hero, from human viewpoint protagonist to distant focal point around which everything spirals, from determined trusting optimist to desperate half-mad fatalist. Any of those transitions can be and have been done in shorter wordcounts, but the length of the series, and the way everything about what Rand does and goes through escalates a little (or sometimes a lot) with each book, gives his arc this feeling of an inexorable pull, of compounding pain, of just a series of small steps, each only a little further than the next.

When you have 12 books (so far) to do that with, you can end up a huge distance away from where you started, without it ever feeling like too great a jump. Each ‘level’ (either of what he has to endure or what he himself does and becomes) is gradually normalised over time; he and the reader acclimate, so then it’s time to step up to the next. Put The Last That Could Be Done after, say, Falme, and it would still hurt but it would feel almost like too much (and also not enough, because it would lack the weight and momentum of everything that came before). Instead, you get to watch the slow unravelling of a character even as his power grows, tension building, until (like his ancestors the Aiel) he becomes all but unrecognisable as who he was at the start, but every step along the way feels like just another step, until a single step is all it takes to push him off the cliff his narrative has spent the better part of twelve books building for him.

I also love the way Jordan has played with POV in this particular arc, with Rand going from the main viewpoint character to barely having a POV. It suits the way he goes from being a protagonist beginning his journey to becoming the centre of a whirlpool that expands to encompass the entire world, as well as how he goes from being very young and human and real to… “I don’t know how human the Dragon Reborn can afford to be,“ to just dragging himself and the world to the Last Battle. He loses POV chapters because he no longer sees himself as a person with agency or even the right to his own mind – which, too, is invaded and eroded as time goes on, again fitting well with the decrease in POV chapters: his mind is literally no longer his own, nor – he believes – is his life.

I expect his to be one of the arcs with the greatest catharsis in its payoff, just because there’s so much that’s built up over time; the potential energy, if you will, is huge, and at some point it has to be released, and while building it took 12 books and counting, there’s…not all that much time left, so it’s going to be released in a far shorter time than it was built, and if anyone remembers anything from physics class, that means it’s going to hit with a hell of a lot of force.

Also okay in my head this was going to be maybe a paragraph or two per character so uh….

Egwene al’Vere: Another character arc I absolutely love, because she grows so much. She goes from strong-willed village girl seeking adventure and trying adulthood on for size to young woman finding her place in the world to true Amyrlin in strength and understanding and maturity. She’s allowed to make mistakes; and throw herself wholeheartedly into things the way so many of us do when we’re still figuring out who we are; and then smooth all of those pieces together into somoene who is still herself; but a more experienced, older, wiser, stronger version of herself. She grows up, in a very real sense, and we get to watch that play out in a way that isn’t always smooth and isn’t always perfect, but feels very real.

I’ve also talked a few times about how the main difference between her and Rand, beneath all the parallels drawn between them, is that in terms of their heroic arcs, she chooses while he is chosen. It’s something I love about Egwene’s arc and her character overall – she’s allowed to be ambitious and to want things and strive for things, and is rewarded for it rather than shut down.

She asks the world for a chance to be more, and it demands a great deal from her in return, but she rises to the challenge at each step, and then takes the next one, and then the next – like Rand, a gradual change that seems small at any given point but is huge overall – but for all that she leaves her home behind, she never loses who she is. And some of that means she keeps some of her flaws, and makes some mistakes along the way because of those flaws, and that’s…permitted, and taken into her overall arc.

And the way her arc is drawn parallel to Rand’s, in a way that draws similarities and yet simultaneously highlights the differences in how they approach these similar things, is excellent and, I think, enhances both of them as a result.

Mat Cauthon: Here’s an arc that I feel is a bit uneven or inconsistent. Some of that fits who he is – the rogue, the trickster, the one who is by his very nature inconsistent except for the aspects of him that are absolutely constant (his commitment to keeping his promises, for instance). So to some extent you don’t expect his arc to follow the same pattern as a more ‘standard’ heroic archetype. This archetype demands a bit of freedom and flexibility to play around with and sometimes flip on its head.

And I think that works well for him from TDR through TFoH. There, we watch the push-pull of denying his fate yet remaining loyal to promises and friends, telling himself he wants no responsibility and is no bloody hero and yet very much acting the part and gathering an army who follow him because they respect and believe in and trust him. We see him learn to use his luck, see him visit the Aelfinn and Eelfinn and manage to come out just a little bit ahead despite always feeling a few steps behind (and also almost dying, can’t forget that). And by the end of TFoH, he has grown, even if he doesn’t want to admit it to himself.

And then…he stagnates (’the right hand falters’), for approximately five goddamn books. He gets bogged down in a storyline that at times seems to exist purely to be a ‘battle of the sexes’ sandbox, serves as a narrative tool for belittling or putting down other characters when it’s not belittling or diminishing him, and vanishes for a book for no particular narrative reason beyond not having much to do. And then he wanders with the circus for a while before finally taking some bloody initiative and marrying his enemy’s empress. By accident, but still, it’s progress.

The thing is, if he had gone straight from the end of TFoH, with a newly acquired army and responsibility that he claims to want nothing to do with, to freeing the Windfinder(s) in Ebou Dar and then staring out at the devastation that escape caused, to giving Tuon a cluster of silk rosebuds while planning the use of gunpowder in war, to the events of As If The World Were Fog and Prince of the Ravens, I think I’d still enjoy reading about him. The pieces of a great arc are there, but the pacing is off, and there’s too much in the middle that seems to serve no real purpose (except to irritate and be irritated by other characters, which doesn’t make anyone look good).

I also think one of the issues with Mat’s arc is that more than others, he is put in positions where his gain is another central character’s loss (see for example the latter half of Swovan Night and Small Sacrifices) for…seemingly no reason. I much prefer the moments where he gains by his own merit (see This Place, This Day and The Lesser Sadness, where he acquires the Band and helps win the battle of Cairhien by being awesome), or, if it’s to be at the expense of other characters, in a way that doesn’t end up making other protagonists just look…less.

For the record, I also disliked when Egwene spent a few chapters making a fool of Nynaeve as part of flipping the leadership/power dynamic between them. I have no problem with conflict between characters (Egwene and Nynaeve bickering all the way to Tear felt real, and suited their development) or with power struggles, but I think it’s important to make sure it’s…fair, I suppose, if you’re using protagonists on both sides. A character can be narratively served by losing a conflict, so long as they’re treated as an actual agent in it, rather being temporarily demoted to narrative device, existing just to make another character look good at their expense. And the resulting ‘benefit’ to the other character feels sour as a result. (An example of this being done better is Mat fighting Gawyn and Galad; the stakes are relatively low, it’s done in a lighthearted way, and while Galad and Gawyn lose, they don’t really lose face).

I also feel like there’s so much more that could be done with the memories Mat acquires - they certainly contribute to his arc and to the positions he ends up in, and recently there was the issue with him realising that the Eelfinn might have some sort of link to him, but we never go very far into the…psychological impact, I suppose. I mean, he remembers dying. Multiple times. And even the memories that don’t involve death often involve battle. So he’s got sort-of-but-no-longer-really secondhand literal war flashbacks coming out his ears, he has howmany fragments of identity floating around in his head and seeming a part of him and yet also not? That’s fascinating, give me more. It just seems like such a cool thing to play with, and instead more often than not it’s a plot device.

Nynaeve al’Meara: Ah, Nynaeve. Another arc I love. I’ve actually written about hers already (albeit a three years and several books ago) but I’ll go into some of it briefly here as well. Where we see Egwene grow up, Nynaeve begins the book as an adult, if still on the younger side, but established in her position and her identity, even if she has to fight for it at times because of her youth and particular personality quirks. And then she has all of that taken from her, and is thrown into a world where she no longer knows who she is or should be, where none of that authority or experience she possessed means anything. It’s such an interesting way to start a character’s arc, and it plays out beautifully as Nynaeve tries to find her footing again and stumbles so many times along the way but, like Egwene, in a way that feels very real.

Through it all she holds to certain core aspects of herself even as others are recognised as mutable, and thus learns who she is and grows into not a different person entirely, but someone more herself. Not self-aware, precisely, but…in control. She breaks her block by finally surrendering, by letting go of the walls she built around herself and her own power out of fear and insecurity, and in doing so accepts what lies beneath them. And as a result, she now controls that vast power within her, rather than having only an occasional grasp of it through anger. That’s something of a metaphor for her entire arc, really: she faces herself as much as she faces any external enemy, pushing past those walls and insecurities and fears, through that uncertainty of where she fits in a world so much vaster than the one she came of age in, and thus gains control of her abilities and strengths and self, and can use that to work toward what she has always held as most important: protecting and helping and defending and healing those she loves.

Perrin Aybara: I love his arc from the beginning through to the end of TSR. The Two Rivers arc? Absolutely gorgeous. But, like Mat, I think his arc falters a little (or, if we’re continuing with the prophecy, strays) in part, perhaps, because he almost completes some of it too early. I do like that it’s not treated as perfectly linear – that just because he’s learned leadership and come to more or less accept it in his home village doesn’t mean he’ll be 100% great at it and fully on board from here on out – but I also think the way we revisit some of those problems could be done better.

I also just hate the Malden arc in general, because once again it makes Perrin look good (sort of) by putting Faile in the role of damsel-in-distress (not in mindset but absolutely in contrived situation) and forcibly holding her there until Perrin can finish his arc. Which detracts from the payoff of the arc itself, for me.

I’d rather have seen that done differently – there are other ways Perrin could have struggled with truly accepting leadership, and also come to throw away the axe – and perhaps slightly earlier, which would allow Perrin to make the decision regarding the wolf dream a little earlier as well, because I don’t see how he’s supposed to convincingly learn it well enough to do anything with it between now and the ending. And if he doesn’t have time to do that, why was it brought up?

All of that said, I do think his arc itself is a really interesting and sometimes understated but often beautiful one. The axe/hammer conflict that winds its way through so much of his arc across ten books is not always subtle but it’s present like a drumbeat, a constant that illustrates the heart of the conflict at the core of who he is and who he wants to be and who he needs to be. It also ties so well into the overall salvation/destruction theme and duality. It’s an interesting way to handle a character of the general archetype Perrin represents, and I think that aspect of his arc is done very, very well. He’s not always my type of character, and there are some inconsistencies in his arc and places where the way aspects of it are accomplished that irritate me, but the overall shape of it is lovely.

#all of this with the usual caveat that #I do love this series #and I like these charactesr and arcs #even the ones I've criticised #asks #anon #wheel of time #rand al'thor #egwene al'vere #nynaeve al'meara #perrin aybara #mat cauthon

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