I feel like (different anon) half of the fandom doesn’t even care about Salem in the sense that regardless of what Her goal is? To be fair in my corner I’ve seen more individual character hatred rather than “this plot doesn’t make sense” hatred. Or ppl just saying the plot sucks without offering why they think so which is the majority of rwby “criticism”. But Salem being the key to the end of the show has been very well telegraphed since the end of volume 3. She started as this faceless monster, a creature to hate, the one who killed their headmaster and plunged the world into war. Then we learned that Oz was also keeping secrets and outright lying, so that knocked him off of the Trusted Adult pedestal (tho he has always been kinda shady but in terms of story formula that’s what I mean). Volume 6??? The Lost Fable?? Still so amazing. Salem very literally gets humanized in the eyes of our characters. She still did all of those awful things but she’s a Person now rather than an Entity. Those moments of confrontation (Ironwood’s office with Ruby, Yang while in the whale, Oscar.” We get to see her talking to her Evil Guy Crew. We see her have emotions.
AND THEN THE BROTHER GODS once thought of as entities much like how Salem was seen by the cast in the beginning. Yes they are still gods but not in the sense that at least I was thinking. They came From somewhere. And yes Salem was the first to discover they were fallible but knowing what V9 told us helped me put it into perspective
So the last arch being about fully learning what Salem wants and then, probably possibly, deciding how to help alongside with it. I think ppl get upset bc they view that as “oh yeah all the ppl she killed and lives she ruined don’t matter she’s our bestie mow” kind of Joining with Salem. When im seeing it as a more Neo agreeing to work with Cinder type deal. If Salem wants to stop the gods, get revenge, make them humble, and the gods return and want to wipe out remnant For Good, I’d say that’s a common goal our kids can get behind.
rwby is a cool show with cool villains and I enjoy it a lot and also your thoughts about it sorry this is so long
the thing with salem and the, like, common fandom interpretation of her and where her arc is headed is that. at least since v9 it’s less about resistance to the idea that the final confrontation being team rwby vs the gods as it is the way folks assume salem fits into that, namely that most of the fandom still takes completely at face value the idea that she’s selfish, arrogant, and needs to learn her lesson about the value of life and death. so you get these wild takes that the gods were assholes who punished her out of proportion for what she did, paired with this implicit idea that salem does actually deserve this punishment because she Still RefusesTo Learn Her Lesson, and thus she needs to be redeemed by team rwby proving her wrong somehow.
but like
salem did nothing wrong. praying to the gods was not wrong, reacting emotionally when they were cruel to her was not wrong, recognizing their fallibility and unworthiness was not wrong, rallying people against them was not wrong, vowing to keep fighting after they massacred everybody was not wrong, cursing them after they left and blaming them for ending the world was not wrong, jumping into the pool of grimm was not wrong, BEING grimm is not wrong, rejecting the divine mandate after ozma hid it from her for years was not wrong. frankly continuing to be a thorn in his side since then is, i would argue, also not wrong, because she’s made herself the immovable obstacle preventing him from summoning his genocidal god back to remnant to kill everyone again; it is laughably obvious that the ultimatum is not a game humanity can win. and then factoring in the part where ozma is obsessed with finding a way to destroy her, what else is she supposed to do besides live in exile. and of course if you close off every other door except violent rebellion you are eventually going to invite violent rebellion.
so like. Salem Is Right, and seems to be taking what she considers the path of minimal destruction (the grimm held beacon but pull out of vale within a few days; her plan for haven was nearly bloodless and left mistral untouched; she made no move to attack mantle and began her siege with a grace period for her to leave in peace if the relics were surrendered), which means that she’s likely willing to negotiate methods if other less destructive paths are opened to her. her villain -> hero arc can’t turn on team rwby persuading her that she’s wrong, because fundamentally her position is “the genocidal divine tyrants do not deserve our obedience and we can and must defy them” which is, um, correct. but if they adopt that position themselves and then negotiate How i think they’ll find she’s a lot more reasonable than they’ve been led to believe, and i do not think the wider fandom is prepared for that whatsoever
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You know I was wondering if Crocodile ever did have any kind of involvement with the Revolutionary Army in secret (lest the Government finds out and revokes his Shichibukai status), what kind of involvement would that even have been
And now, with both the Vegapunk/Ohara flashback and Kuma's flashback, it's being made very clear to us that the Revolutionary Army was broke as hell 22 years ago. Like the fact that this has been brought up twice now in a relatively short span of time is interesting to me, that's usually a sign it's not an unimportant plotpoint
But you know who would have had money to help fund the Army
A funny little warlord who would eventually go and build a fucking casino to run for funsies. A warlord who had to give the Government some of his Pirating Income to keep his warlord-status
Like Crocodile hated the Government anyways so why not help fund the Revolutionary Army in secret, out of spite if for no other reason
Vaguely related, but I keep on remembering this scene (post-Enies Lobby), which at first glance just seems like a basic Lore Dump
But then there's the
"Yet..."
(Or "however", she says "no ni" in Japanese and you could translate that in many ways, I would probably have gone with "however" but that wouldn't have fit into the speechbubble)
Mind you, the conversation just kind of ends there, next we see Garp realize he probably shouldn't have mentioned Dragon infront of such a massive audience, so wherever that "yet" was going to lead to we will never find out, because Oda conveniently changed the subject before we got to it
And you know. Like yes, Robin could be just expressing her shock over finding out that the leader of the Revolutionary Army had a child with someone
But also, Robin was a part of an organization that was trying to overthrow one of the founding countries of the World Government in an explicit attempt to go against said Government (compared to like, Blackbeard, who currently wants to make Fullalead into a "pirate country" that's a part OF the World Government)
Like you don't have to be a genius to look at Crocodile's ultimate goals and compare that to what Dragon is doing and find a few similarities here and there maybe
(Also like, Crocodile's equivalent in Romancing SaGa 2 is meant to be Wagnas, the queer-coded leader of the Seven Heroes (whom the OG Shichibukai are based on) who "hoped to help the world". You know, an interesting detail and all.)
Not to mention, during the time Robin spent with Baroque Works, if Crocodile was ever in contact with the Revolutionary Army at all, considdering she has the ability to easily spy on people and that she didn't trust Crocodile one bit, it wouldn't be unsurprising if she ever spied on Crocodile and/or just overheard a phone call or knew about Crocodile having secret spending habits or something
(Mind you, I'm not saying "she knew" Crocodile was involved with the Revolutionaries, more that she might've been Suspecting Things, that "yet" being about her connecting the dots while unsure if her conclusion was right or not)
Of course Crocodile's plans can't have been Dragon Approved by any means, especially considdering the Army had been looking for Robin for over 10 years (pre-timeskip)
Four years of which were with Crocodile. Like if he was FULLY allied with the Army and KNEW they were looking for Robin, surely he would've called Dragon and been like "hey I found the kid from Ohara, wanna come hang out" or something. But no, he had bigger plans and kept Robin a secret from the Revolutionaries and the Government alike
Also like, I have seen people question why the Revolutionaries weren't involved with Alabasta's rebellion at all, and "Oda hadn't come up with the Revolutionaries yet at the time of writing" (/"OP was meant to end at Alabasta at one point so there would've been no reason to introduce the subplot at that point") aside
Between Baroque Works being a secret organization working undercover (thus the Army might not have been aware of the civil war being manufactured), the framing of the King making him look bad and very much the type of monarch that deserved to be overthrown in the Army's eyes, and Crocodile maybe lying through his teeth about what was happening in the country... Yeah, the Army's lack of involvement with Alabasta suddenly makes sense
EDIT Minor addition: Just realized that because Crocodile was technically working for the Government, if the Revs ever did send forces to participate in Alabasta's civil army and taking down the throne, the Government could've easily ordered Crocodile to step in to stop the rebellion and take down the Revolutionaries, right? Because he was supposed to be on the Government's side, right? And surely the Army wouldn't have wanted to fight against Crocodile if they were secretly allied (Croc's secret betrayal aside), and if Crocodile refused to fight the Revs the Government could've seen that as a reason to revoke his Shichibukai rights (which wouldn't be great if they wanted to keep Crocodile in a position where he could fund the Army?). So it could've also been a case of it being for the best for everyone's sake to let this one play out "naturally"
But my point is
I'm just deeply intriqued by these little details and wonder if I'm Actually Masterfully Connecting The Dots Like a True Genius or just seeing a pattern where there's none.
Like this is far from confirming the theory, I'm just saying, the pieces do kinda fit together do they not
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I just found out Fyodor's cello piece from the 3rd season is called "Bird of death" and I find that interesting for a few reasons.
First of all, is it connected to Nikolai? They work together and -shipping aside - if they're actually friends, it would make sense for Fyodor to write a piece either for him or simply inspired by him. Not only are birds associated with Nikolai, but death as well since he was supposed to die by being cut in half. He also kills people, so if we combine all those things, they kind of make him a symbolic bird of death.
Secondly, it would make the cello scene have a slightly different atmosphere as Fyodor would be playing a piece he associates with his friend who's going to die after commiting a series of murders while a different murder is taking place. Also the situation would be even weirder for Katsura because it would mean he was kidnapped by a guy who didn't just play cello for him, but play a piece he associates with his friend. Of course Katsura would have no way of knowing, but still.
Thirdly, does that make Fyodor a bird of death? Because if it's not connected with Nikolai whatsoever, then it's most likely connected with Fyodor himself. It would make sense because he kills people as well, but would also accidentally make both Fyodor and Nikolai be associated with both birds and death (#matchingimagery).
Lastly, how much does studio Bones know?? I checked the dates of manga volume releases and Sunday tragedy chapters did come out back in 2017, so the team working on the anime would have enough time to integrate this title as an easter egg if they wanted to do that (as the 3rd season began in April 2019), but then again it seems like a random idea to allude to a character from a future arc that they weren't animating at the time. Either a member of the team was/is a fan of bsd or they're getting extra info on future events. Bones also seems to be making surprising decisions when adapting the material (such as putting Fyodor in Untold Origins), so I think it's possible they know something we don't.
But it's also possible that Bird of Death has a different meaning that I'm not aware of or it's all just a coincidence haha
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One thing that I’ve been thinking about is a possible route(?) this story could go, and that is Spamton’s trip to the Ambyu-Lances’s office. And boy do I feel bad for the Addisons because it’s gonna be hell on earth for all of em. Spamton has the mentality of a feral cat and this feral cat is going to the vet in the first time in forever. I don’t think Spamton is a big fan of large syringes, and when you have one of those chasing you down because well, look at him. He’s a walking talking corrupted program. If masters his glitches like Survey says, I can totally see him glitching through the doctors to make his grand escape™️. I feel like all the Addisons are gonna have to be here for both moral support, as well as making sure that he doesn’t attack his doctor. (Maybe they’ll sedate him a little? I know that’s what some hospitals do with rowdy-er patients LMAO, but then the Addisons have a whole new problem on their hands because now Spamton is high as a mf kite or something 😭) the last time I was under anesthesia my doctor said I wouldn’t stop laughing until I burst out into uncontrollable sobs and then I immediately blacked out💀
god a trip to the doctors office would be hell in a handbasket for this guy ;v; because he 100% has the energy of a feral cat finally being checked out
though i think once he gets closer to the addisons he'd agree to go, just to see if he can be set back to normal (spoiler alert: he can't cuz fate has handed his ass the bad luck card from square one) but he immediately regrets it and the addisons have to calm him down
them sedating him would probably be the best course of action as to actually get ANY results (because he will bite and attack on instinct hfjkkdjfkks)
though i feel if i were to write an ambyu-lance scene in the future this is how id imagine it would go:
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I can't find it in my screenshots so I must have forgotten to capture it but in one interaction Pearl mentions Marina had to learn the language when she arrived on the surface, which confirms that Inklings and Octarians do speak different languages which is cool and neat world building but also
During Octo Expansion did Eight. Did Eight understand anything anyone was saying? Especially Cuttlefish?
Because like you could make the argument the main language of the Deep Sea Metro is Octarian, that'd make sense, so CQ and Iso Padre would have been speaking Octarian, and Marina over the phone may also speak Octarian and translate the chat messages to Octarian for Eight, and maybe she taught Pearl some too for fun or Pearl picked it up to help Marina when she first arrived, and Tartar obviously would be set to Octarian but like
Does Cuttlefish?? Know Octarian?? Fluently enough to RAP in Octarian?? Because he responds to what other characters say, and speaks to everyone else who speak back to him, unlike Eight who never says a word or is even implied to speak which really just leads me to believe they're all speaking Inklinese
So I ask again; Does Eight understand ANYONE during Octo expansion or are they just. Going with it.
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